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\"text\": \"法定規定可以請我放假 那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好 讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒 我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 243.742, \"end\": 243.902, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 243.902, \"end\": 244.282, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 244.282, \"end\": 244.462, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 244.462, \"end\": 244.662, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 244.662, \"end\": 245.822, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 245.822, \"end\": 246.082, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 246.082, \"end\": 246.283, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 246.283, \"end\": 246.383, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 246.383, \"end\": 246.623, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 246.623, \"end\": 246.803, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 246.803, \"end\": 246.983, \"score\": 0.782}, 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你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好 不要七次好不好 因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 577.605, \"end\": 577.745, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 577.745, \"end\": 578.085, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 578.085, \"end\": 578.566, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 578.566, \"end\": 578.786, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 578.786, \"end\": 579.547, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 579.547, \"end\": 579.787, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 579.787, \"end\": 579.967, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 579.967, \"end\": 580.147, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 580.147, \"end\": 580.287, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 580.287, \"end\": 580.428, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": 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\"請\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"秀\", \"start\": 1047.957, \"end\": 1047.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"寶\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1047.977, \"end\": 1047.997, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,159 --> 00:00:18,891\n部長好部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師\n\n2\n00:00:19,844 --> 00:00:32,994\n那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象\n\n3\n00:00:34,850 --> 00:00:49,705\n這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔\n\n4\n00:00:53,584 --> 00:01:06,826\n我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的他確實挑戰物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素\n\n5\n00:01:10,049 --> 00:01:35,187\n沒有部長你那一個直轄市台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說代理照是三年的限制好那除了這個之外咧你要你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦部長我來講啦\n\n6\n00:01:37,957 --> 00:02:02,813\n你稍微去每个学校去问一下就会知道了有一个学校的回馈啦譬如说现在校园的环境到底对老师来说是不是够友善我觉得这也是其中一个问题因为现在有的小朋友像我知道有的学校前一段时间才发生的学生对老师骂三字经五字经然后还吐口水那老师也不知道怎么办了因为如果说老师\n\n7\n00:02:04,093 --> 00:02:29,870\n假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎\n\n8\n00:02:32,132 --> 00:02:43,439\n謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大院通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個\n\n9\n00:02:51,744 --> 00:03:11,686\n不要答對所問啦我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意\n\n10\n00:03:12,907 --> 00:03:37,366\n到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說\n\n11\n00:03:38,847 --> 00:03:51,420\n不是說有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長我想最後放假我們就按照這一個來得及嗎\n\n12\n00:04:03,742 --> 00:04:30,307\n法定規定可以請我放假那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個\n\n13\n00:04:31,806 --> 00:04:53,503\n代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況啦很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總諮詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開缺都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接\n\n14\n00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:18,185\n那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟董事長說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要因為他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在\n\n15\n00:05:19,545 --> 00:05:38,441\n整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下\n\n16\n00:05:42,147 --> 00:05:55,866\n對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年\n\n17\n00:05:59,514 --> 00:06:18,615\n從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多好那我現在要講就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回葛國軍也有在問這個問題\n\n18\n00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:40,092\n就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次\n\n19\n00:06:41,013 --> 00:06:57,833\n那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個\n\n20\n00:06:58,954 --> 00:07:24,809\n行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊\n\n21\n00:07:25,549 --> 00:07:34,677\n就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔就違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊\n\n22\n00:07:35,657 --> 00:08:01,571\n我想謝謝委員提醒行政整領量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛\n\n23\n00:08:02,071 --> 00:08:20,520\n一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自發過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的\n\n24\n00:08:21,881 --> 00:08:50,162\n我也利用這個機會跟委員報告有時候教育部在減量的同時因為各縣市地方的一個發展他們是縣市政府團隊他們可能有許多的這一些公文書或者政策的推動是透過學校的系統但學校老師他可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文他是來自於地方縣市政府但是這個帳全部都算在教育部發不然我今天不是讓你吐口水我舉的問題就是很具\n\n25\n00:08:53,484 --> 00:09:15,030\n例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦\n\n26\n00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:33,576\n內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎\n\n27\n00:09:37,605 --> 00:10:03,949\n跟委員報告這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好不要七次好不好因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次\n\n28\n00:10:05,543 --> 00:10:31,151\n我就覺得很奇怪但如果也會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好去提醒一下是好謝謝然後行政這個有關於這個行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護\n\n29\n00:10:33,769 --> 00:10:55,954\n那很多老師當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有\n\n30\n00:10:57,148 --> 00:11:19,958\n跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部\n\n31\n00:11:21,093 --> 00:11:26,916\n補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我就跟你講的是專職交通導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學項具如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他只能維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任\n\n32\n00:11:41,182 --> 00:12:00,140\n台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題\n\n33\n00:12:01,161 --> 00:12:15,517\n教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛\n\n34\n00:12:16,038 --> 00:12:44,327\n如果說什麼事情都推地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報啊這不是推先生不是那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事跟我無關\n\n35\n00:12:45,347 --> 00:13:13,343\n怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學\n\n36\n00:13:14,223 --> 00:13:35,728\n這當然是中央一致的政策啦怎麼會去推給地方政府咧這個能不能做啊你最起碼教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說一講就說欸這個是地方政府的事跟我們報告我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這一件事情的有討論還是開會討論嗎還是電話討論開會開會討論然後呢結論是什麼\n\n37\n00:13:43,496 --> 00:14:07,703\n什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告謝謝\n\n38\n00:14:09,543 --> 00:14:22,009\n所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啊上次在總執行員跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧\n\n39\n00:14:22,972 --> 00:14:50,431\n是我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員是的是不是是好那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎\n\n40\n00:14:52,597 --> 00:15:12,926\n是不是在或者是其他教育訓練教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員\n\n41\n00:15:14,076 --> 00:15:30,955\n那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以\n\n42\n00:15:31,823 --> 00:15:50,804\n增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標\n\n43\n00:15:51,565 --> 00:16:19,639\n所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛\n\n44\n00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:49,679\n今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個我們先第一個部長我們先第一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理所以我想我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育文化委員會的委員講一下評估多久\n\n45\n00:16:51,454 --> 00:17:11,346\n是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊\n\n46\n00:17:12,406 --> 00:17:27,997\n大概多久吧謝謝委員剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2159\t18891\t部長好部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師\n19844\t32994\t那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象\n34850\t49705\t這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔\n53584\t66826\t我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的他確實挑戰物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素\n70049\t95187\t沒有 部長 你那一個直轄市 台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道 部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說 代理照是三年的限制好 那除了這個之外咧 你要 你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況 大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦 部長 我來講啦\n97957\t122813\t你稍微去每个学校去问一下就会知道了有一个学校的回馈啦譬如说现在校园的环境到底对老师来说是不是够友善我觉得这也是其中一个问题因为现在有的小朋友像我知道有的学校前一段时间才发生的学生对老师骂三字经五字经然后还吐口水那老师也不知道怎么办了因为如果说老师\n124093\t149870\t假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎\n152132\t163439\t謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大院通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個\n171744\t191686\t不要答對所問啦 我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作 校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意\n192907\t217366\t到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說\n218847\t231420\t不是說有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長我想最後放假我們就按照這一個來得及嗎\n243742\t270307\t法定規定可以請我放假 那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好 讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒 我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個\n271806\t293503\t代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況啦很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總諮詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開缺都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接\n294400\t318185\t那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟董事長說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要 因為他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在\n319545\t338441\t整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下\n342147\t355866\t對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年\n359514\t378615\t從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論 不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多好 那我現在要講就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回葛國軍也有在問這個問題\n380950\t400092\t就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次\n401013\t417833\t那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個\n418954\t444809\t行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊\n445549\t454677\t就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔就違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊\n455657\t481571\t我想謝謝委員提醒行政整領量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛\n482071\t500520\t一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自發過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的\n501881\t530162\t我也利用這個機會跟委員報告有時候教育部在減量的同時因為各縣市地方的一個發展他們是縣市政府團隊他們可能有許多的這一些公文書或者政策的推動是透過學校的系統但學校老師他可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文他是來自於地方縣市政府但是這個帳全部都算在教育部發不然我今天不是讓你吐口水我舉的問題就是很具\n533484\t555030\t例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員 謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦\n558280\t573576\t內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎\n577605\t603949\t跟委員報告 這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到 你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好 不要七次好不好 因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次\n605543\t631151\t我就覺得很奇怪但如果也會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好去提醒一下是好謝謝然後行政這個有關於這個行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護\n633769\t655954\t那很多老師 當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有\n657148\t679958\t跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部\n681093\t686916\t補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我就跟你講的是專職交通導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學項具如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他只能維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任\n701182\t720140\t台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題\n721161\t735517\t教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛\n736038\t764327\t如果說什麼事情都推地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報啊 這不是推先生不是 那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事 跟我無關\n765347\t793343\t怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學\n794223\t815728\t這當然是中央一致的政策啦 怎麼會去推給地方政府咧這個能不能做啊你最起碼 教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說 一講就說 欸這個是地方政府的事跟我們報告 我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這一件事情的有討論 還是開會討論嗎 還是電話討論開會 開會討論然後呢 結論是什麼\n823496\t847703\t什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告 謝謝\n849543\t862009\t所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啊上次在總執行員跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧\n862972\t890431\t是 我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員是的是不是是好 那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎\n892597\t912926\t是不是在或者是其他教育訓練教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員\n914076\t930955\t那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以\n931823\t950804\t增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標\n951565\t979639\t所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛\n980720\t1009679\t今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個我們先第一個部長我們先第一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理所以我想我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育文化委員會的委員講一下評估多久\n1011454\t1031346\t是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊\n1032406\t1047997\t大概多久吧謝謝委員 剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好 謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢 官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢\n","txt":"部長好部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師\n那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象\n這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔\n我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的他確實挑戰物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素\n沒有 部長 你那一個直轄市 台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道 部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說 代理照是三年的限制好 那除了這個之外咧 你要 你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況 大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦 部長 我來講啦\n你稍微去每个学校去问一下就会知道了有一个学校的回馈啦譬如说现在校园的环境到底对老师来说是不是够友善我觉得这也是其中一个问题因为现在有的小朋友像我知道有的学校前一段时间才发生的学生对老师骂三字经五字经然后还吐口水那老师也不知道怎么办了因为如果说老师\n假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎\n謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大院通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個\n不要答對所問啦 我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作 校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意\n到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說\n不是說有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長我想最後放假我們就按照這一個來得及嗎\n法定規定可以請我放假 那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好 讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒 我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個\n代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況啦很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總諮詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開缺都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接\n那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟董事長說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要 因為他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在\n整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下\n對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年\n從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論 不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多好 那我現在要講就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回葛國軍也有在問這個問題\n就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次\n那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個\n行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊\n就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔就違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊\n我想謝謝委員提醒行政整領量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛\n一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自發過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的\n我也利用這個機會跟委員報告有時候教育部在減量的同時因為各縣市地方的一個發展他們是縣市政府團隊他們可能有許多的這一些公文書或者政策的推動是透過學校的系統但學校老師他可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文他是來自於地方縣市政府但是這個帳全部都算在教育部發不然我今天不是讓你吐口水我舉的問題就是很具\n例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員 謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦\n內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎\n跟委員報告 這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到 你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好 不要七次好不好 因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次\n我就覺得很奇怪但如果也會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好去提醒一下是好謝謝然後行政這個有關於這個行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護\n那很多老師 當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有\n跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部\n補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我就跟你講的是專職交通導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學項具如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他只能維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任\n台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題\n教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛\n如果說什麼事情都推地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報啊 這不是推先生不是 那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事 跟我無關\n怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學\n這當然是中央一致的政策啦 怎麼會去推給地方政府咧這個能不能做啊你最起碼 教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說 一講就說 欸這個是地方政府的事跟我們報告 我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這一件事情的有討論 還是開會討論嗎 還是電話討論開會 開會討論然後呢 結論是什麼\n什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告 謝謝\n所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啊上次在總執行員跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧\n是 我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員是的是不是是好 那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎\n是不是在或者是其他教育訓練教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員\n那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以\n增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標\n所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛\n今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個我們先第一個部長我們先第一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理所以我想我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育文化委員會的委員講一下評估多久\n是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊\n大概多久吧謝謝委員 剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好 謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢 官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.159 --> 00:18.891\n部長好部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師\n\n00:19.844 --> 00:32.994\n那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象\n\n00:34.850 --> 00:49.705\n這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔\n\n00:53.584 --> 01:06.826\n我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的他確實挑戰物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素\n\n01:10.049 --> 01:35.187\n沒有部長你那一個直轄市台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說代理照是三年的限制好那除了這個之外咧你要你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦部長我來講啦\n\n01:37.957 --> 02:02.813\n你稍微去每个学校去问一下就会知道了有一个学校的回馈啦譬如说现在校园的环境到底对老师来说是不是够友善我觉得这也是其中一个问题因为现在有的小朋友像我知道有的学校前一段时间才发生的学生对老师骂三字经五字经然后还吐口水那老师也不知道怎么办了因为如果说老师\n\n02:04.093 --> 02:29.870\n假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎\n\n02:32.132 --> 02:43.439\n謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大院通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個\n\n02:51.744 --> 03:11.686\n不要答對所問啦我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意\n\n03:12.907 --> 03:37.366\n到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說\n\n03:38.847 --> 03:51.420\n不是說有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長我想最後放假我們就按照這一個來得及嗎\n\n04:03.742 --> 04:30.307\n法定規定可以請我放假那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個\n\n04:31.806 --> 04:53.503\n代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況啦很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總諮詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開缺都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接\n\n04:54.400 --> 05:18.185\n那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟董事長說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要因為他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在\n\n05:19.545 --> 05:38.441\n整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下\n\n05:42.147 --> 05:55.866\n對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年\n\n05:59.514 --> 06:18.615\n從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多好那我現在要講就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回葛國軍也有在問這個問題\n\n06:20.950 --> 06:40.092\n就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次\n\n06:41.013 --> 06:57.833\n那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個\n\n06:58.954 --> 07:24.809\n行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊\n\n07:25.549 --> 07:34.677\n就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔就違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊\n\n07:35.657 --> 08:01.571\n我想謝謝委員提醒行政整領量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛\n\n08:02.071 --> 08:20.520\n一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自發過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的\n\n08:21.881 --> 08:50.162\n我也利用這個機會跟委員報告有時候教育部在減量的同時因為各縣市地方的一個發展他們是縣市政府團隊他們可能有許多的這一些公文書或者政策的推動是透過學校的系統但學校老師他可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文他是來自於地方縣市政府但是這個帳全部都算在教育部發不然我今天不是讓你吐口水我舉的問題就是很具\n\n08:53.484 --> 09:15.030\n例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦\n\n09:18.280 --> 09:33.576\n內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎\n\n09:37.605 --> 10:03.949\n跟委員報告這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好不要七次好不好因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次\n\n10:05.543 --> 10:31.151\n我就覺得很奇怪但如果也會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好去提醒一下是好謝謝然後行政這個有關於這個行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護\n\n10:33.769 --> 10:55.954\n那很多老師當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有\n\n10:57.148 --> 11:19.958\n跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部\n\n11:21.093 --> 11:26.916\n補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我就跟你講的是專職交通導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學項具如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他只能維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任\n\n11:41.182 --> 12:00.140\n台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題\n\n12:01.161 --> 12:15.517\n教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛\n\n12:16.038 --> 12:44.327\n如果說什麼事情都推地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報啊這不是推先生不是那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事跟我無關\n\n12:45.347 --> 13:13.343\n怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學\n\n13:14.223 --> 13:35.728\n這當然是中央一致的政策啦怎麼會去推給地方政府咧這個能不能做啊你最起碼教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說一講就說欸這個是地方政府的事跟我們報告我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這一件事情的有討論還是開會討論嗎還是電話討論開會開會討論然後呢結論是什麼\n\n13:43.496 --> 14:07.703\n什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告謝謝\n\n14:09.543 --> 14:22.009\n所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啊上次在總執行員跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧\n\n14:22.972 --> 14:50.431\n是我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員是的是不是是好那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎\n\n14:52.597 --> 15:12.926\n是不是在或者是其他教育訓練教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員\n\n15:14.076 --> 15:30.955\n那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以\n\n15:31.823 --> 15:50.804\n增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標\n\n15:51.565 --> 16:19.639\n所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛\n\n16:20.720 --> 16:49.679\n今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個我們先第一個部長我們先第一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理所以我想我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育文化委員會的委員講一下評估多久\n\n16:51.454 --> 17:11.346\n是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊\n\n17:12.406 --> 17:27.997\n大概多久吧謝謝委員剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.159,"end":18.891,"text":"部長好部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師"},{"start":19.844,"end":32.994,"text":"那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象"},{"start":34.85,"end":49.705,"text":"這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔"},{"start":53.584,"end":66.826,"text":"我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的他確實挑戰物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素"},{"start":70.049,"end":95.187,"text":"沒有 部長 你那一個直轄市 台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道 部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說 代理照是三年的限制好 那除了這個之外咧 你要 你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況 大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦 部長 我來講啦"},{"start":97.957,"end":122.813,"text":"你稍微去每个学校去问一下就会知道了有一个学校的回馈啦譬如说现在校园的环境到底对老师来说是不是够友善我觉得这也是其中一个问题因为现在有的小朋友像我知道有的学校前一段时间才发生的学生对老师骂三字经五字经然后还吐口水那老师也不知道怎么办了因为如果说老师"},{"start":124.093,"end":149.87,"text":"假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎"},{"start":152.132,"end":163.439,"text":"謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大院通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個"},{"start":171.744,"end":191.686,"text":"不要答對所問啦 我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作 校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意"},{"start":192.907,"end":217.366,"text":"到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說"},{"start":218.847,"end":231.42,"text":"不是說有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長我想最後放假我們就按照這一個來得及嗎"},{"start":243.742,"end":270.307,"text":"法定規定可以請我放假 那我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大地來辦理一些近師親師的活動好不好 讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒 我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師啦第二個"},{"start":271.806,"end":293.503,"text":"代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況啦很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總諮詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開缺都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接"},{"start":294.4,"end":318.185,"text":"那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟董事長說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要 因為他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在"},{"start":319.545,"end":338.441,"text":"整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下"},{"start":342.147,"end":355.866,"text":"對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年"},{"start":359.514,"end":378.615,"text":"從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論 不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多好 那我現在要講就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回葛國軍也有在問這個問題"},{"start":380.95,"end":400.092,"text":"就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次"},{"start":401.013,"end":417.833,"text":"那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個"},{"start":418.954,"end":444.809,"text":"行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊"},{"start":445.549,"end":454.677,"text":"就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔就違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊"},{"start":455.657,"end":481.571,"text":"我想謝謝委員提醒行政整領量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛"},{"start":482.071,"end":500.52,"text":"一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自發過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的"},{"start":501.881,"end":530.162,"text":"我也利用這個機會跟委員報告有時候教育部在減量的同時因為各縣市地方的一個發展他們是縣市政府團隊他們可能有許多的這一些公文書或者政策的推動是透過學校的系統但學校老師他可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文他是來自於地方縣市政府但是這個帳全部都算在教育部發不然我今天不是讓你吐口水我舉的問題就是很具"},{"start":533.484,"end":555.03,"text":"例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員 謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦"},{"start":558.28,"end":573.576,"text":"內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎"},{"start":577.605,"end":603.949,"text":"跟委員報告 這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到 你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好 不要七次好不好 因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次"},{"start":605.543,"end":631.151,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪但如果也會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好去提醒一下是好謝謝然後行政這個有關於這個行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護"},{"start":633.769,"end":655.954,"text":"那很多老師 當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有"},{"start":657.148,"end":679.958,"text":"跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部"},{"start":681.093,"end":686.916,"text":"補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我就跟你講的是專職交通導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學項具如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他只能維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任"},{"start":701.182,"end":720.14,"text":"台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題"},{"start":721.161,"end":735.517,"text":"教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛"},{"start":736.038,"end":764.327,"text":"如果說什麼事情都推地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報啊 這不是推先生不是 那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事 跟我無關"},{"start":765.347,"end":793.343,"text":"怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學"},{"start":794.223,"end":815.728,"text":"這當然是中央一致的政策啦 怎麼會去推給地方政府咧這個能不能做啊你最起碼 教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說 一講就說 欸這個是地方政府的事跟我們報告 我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這一件事情的有討論 還是開會討論嗎 還是電話討論開會 開會討論然後呢 結論是什麼"},{"start":823.496,"end":847.703,"text":"什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告 謝謝"},{"start":849.543,"end":862.009,"text":"所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啊上次在總執行員跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧"},{"start":862.972,"end":890.431,"text":"是 我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員是的是不是是好 那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎"},{"start":892.597,"end":912.926,"text":"是不是在或者是其他教育訓練教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員"},{"start":914.076,"end":930.955,"text":"那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以"},{"start":931.823,"end":950.804,"text":"增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標"},{"start":951.565,"end":979.639,"text":"所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛"},{"start":980.72,"end":1009.679,"text":"今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個我們先第一個部長我們先第一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理所以我想我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育文化委員會的委員講一下評估多久"},{"start":1011.454,"end":1031.346,"text":"是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊"},{"start":1032.406,"end":1047.997,"text":"大概多久吧謝謝委員 剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好 謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢 官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":435,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時16分）麻煩請教育部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請教育部部長，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。前兩天臺北市長蔣萬安公開地呼籲一件事情，就是臺北市近3年有代理教師荒，很多學校6招、7招找不到人，然後有的學校甚至要招45次才招到代理老師。這個部分我有跟新北市一些學校詢問過，確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當的困難，有的也是要招好幾次才有，我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實我非常清楚臺北市，特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候，我們老師的報酬各方面，在延攬人才上面臨了一個更大的挑戰。"],["葉委員元之：原因是什麼？不是只有臺北市喔！我剛剛講新北市有一些學校也一樣，您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況？"],["鄭部長英耀：剛才委員也特別提到了臺北市在整個生活、物價各方面的挑戰確實很多。"],["葉委員元之：物價是其中一個因素，還有沒有其他因素？部長，人家直轄市臺北市長都公開喊話了，然後部長都沒有看到？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，我知道臺北市……"],["葉委員元之：部長平常都在忙什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：市長特別提到說代理教師3年的限制。"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，第一個有物價因素嘛！好，那除了這個之外呢？你有沒有去跟學校了解一下，各個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況？大致的原因是什麼？你有沒有稍微去了解一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：我是不是請署長？"],["葉委員元之：沒關係啦，部長，我來講啦，你每個學校稍微去問一下就會知道，這是有些學校的回饋，譬如說現在校園的環境到底對老師來說是不是夠友善？我覺得這也是其中一個問題。現在有的小朋友，像我知道有的學校前一段時間才發生的，學生對老師罵三字經、五字經，然後還吐口水，老師也不知道怎麼辦，因為如果老師比較有一些反應、回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告，被告就要進入校事會議，校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右，最後結果或許有可能會還老師清白，但是這兩個月的煎熬，對老師來說，其實也是心理上一個很大的負擔。所以第一個，就是校園對老師是否夠友善，不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看，第一個，也感謝大院通過了學生輔導法，我們希望更積極地去協助學生在整個學習過程能夠有一個更好的發展，這對老師來講是讓他能夠專心教學的穩定力量。第二個……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不要答非所問，我是說一個學校對老師……"],["鄭部長英耀：我思考這個問題是從系統性在思考，所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作、校安的事件，確實對老師、對學校造成了一些困擾，壓力也相對比較大，這也是造成老師不願意到學校，等於說專業的人才不願意投入到教師的工作。所以我們從今年開始，事實上我們也開始在補助地方增聘這一些所謂校務的行政人力，希望能夠來……"],["葉委員元之：這個我等一下會跟你討論。第一個，我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高校園對老師友善這一塊，我認為還是要對症下藥，不是說什麼系統性，講一個那麼大的方向，但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來。我順便問一下，部長，今年9月28號教師節來得及放假嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：放假我們就按照這一個……"],["葉委員元之：來得及嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：法令規定可以全國放假，我們當然就可以……"],["葉委員元之：我有一個建議，好不好？我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話，可不可以擴大來辦理一些敬師親師的活動，讓大家找回尊師重道的那種價值？"],["鄭部長英耀：非常感謝委員提醒，我想這是很有價值的一個活動。"],["葉委員元之：讓大家要尊重老師啦！第二個，代理教師荒我還有問到一個狀況，很多代理教師很擔心進到學校以後馬上就要接行政職，這個部分我上次在總質詢的時候也有跟部長討論過，因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接，所以通常行政職一開缺都是找剛考進學校的正式教師去接，如果正式教師也不夠的話就找代理老師，上次有跟部長說過這會衍生兩個問題：第一個，正式老師剛考進去，他是數學老師，正準備要教數學，結果卻跟他講：你先不用教數學，你去兼行政。我覺得這對老師教學或是學生受教權也會有影響；第二個就是找代理教師，問題是我們現在整個教育環境對行政人員不友善，才會產生行政大逃亡，我還聽說南部開了6個校長缺，只有4個人報考，現在行政大逃亡的狀況真的非常嚴重。當然教育部現在也在推行政減量，我們來看一下……對了，這邊還有一個對老師不友善的案例，我請教育部也去了解一下，現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升，109年教師受傷是77件，現在是113年，從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號，受傷教師已經有211件，呈倍數成長，這個我今天就不問了，但是你們去研究一下，為什麼老師受傷的案件倍增那麼多？","我現在要講就是行政減量的部分，剛剛我們召委葛如鈞也在問這個問題，可能教育部要配合陸委會去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證、戶籍或相關證件，這個不是不能查啦，國家政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍，這不是不能查，但是不同單位全部發文給學校，發文了7次，確實有不同單位都發文，坦白說，我問的狀況是，老師大概只具結了一次，為什麼？很多學校人事收到以後，因為已經統計過了，所以就沒有叫老師再來具結一次，但這也是一個行政負擔，人事收到每一個文都要回一次，類似的狀況很多，教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位，以後問一樣的問題，是不是就由教育部來做單一窗口就好？不要陸委會發一次、行政院秘書長發一次、銓敘部發一次，大家都發一次，學校人事單位、人事主任、組長或相關人等都很忙，重複做7次一樣的事情，這就是行政負擔，違背教育部的行政減量，我不知道部長能不能做到？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，行政減量本來就是教育部一直在努力的。"],["葉委員元之：對啊。"],["鄭部長英耀：但也讓委員知道，教育部轉發的當然有，有一次我同意的，但是有時候可能中央部會直接到地方，譬如說其他的中央部會轉到……"],["葉委員元之：我們現在講的是……你聽我講一下，我的意思是，教育部就是要照顧學校……"],["鄭部長英耀：這我完全同意。"],["葉委員元之：不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加，一件事情要行政人員回7次，站在教育主管機關、教育部的立場，難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個我們來努力處理。"],["葉委員元之：以後這個東西不要各自發過去，就由教育部統籌，讓行政人員不要有那麼大的負擔，這個教育部都做不到喔？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，這倒是我們可以來努力的。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，就是這樣子而已。"],["鄭部長英耀：我也利用這個機會跟委員報告，有時候教育部在減量的同時，因為各縣市的地方發展，他們是縣市政府團隊，他們可能也有許多的公文書或者政策推動是透過學校的系統，但學校老師可能並不知道這不是教育部發的文，它是來自於地方縣市政府，但這個帳全部都算在教育部。"],["葉委員元之：部長，我今天不是讓你吐苦水，我舉的問題很具體。"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，我只是要描述事實。"],["葉委員元之：例如像剛剛那個例子，查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情就讓老師對同樣一件事情回了7次，如果認為這個也會造成負擔，那以後教育部就溝通嘛，當然你也會講其他問題，我們可以一個一個來解決，可是那是不相干的，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，這個我們會努力。"],["葉委員元之：再來，我跟你請教一下，你也可以去了解一下，陸委會說還要繼續查，應該是內政部啦，內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職，5月26號中央社的新聞說，之前只是第一波，第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查，關於這個部分，部長你有掌握嗎？"],["林處長建璋：跟委員報告，關於這個部分，我們目前沒有接到……"],["葉委員元之：沒有接到？你去了解一下好不好？"],["林處長建璋：是。"],["葉委員元之：不要再造成我們剛剛講的那種狀況，各單位又再問一次，讓人事主任忙死了。"],["林處長建璋：這個部分我們會再做了解。"],["葉委員元之：以後要查就找教育部發一次，大家回復就好了，不要7次，現在又要第二波了，就我的了解，公立學校教師都已經填過了，填過為什麼還要再查一次？我就覺得很奇怪，今天陸委會不在，你們如果不知道就去了解一下，好不好？去提醒一下。"],["林處長建璋：是，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：有關於行政減量，最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈，想跟教育部長討論一下，就是專職交通導護的問題，因為前一段時間在三峽發生一個很不幸的交通重大意外事故事件，所以有些校園在討論是不是還要讓老師來兼交通導護，老師兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險，有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下，請他們支援專職的交通導護人力，這有沒有可能？還是教育部有看到學校這樣的呼籲，已經有類似的想法，有沒有？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，從中央的角度，我們當然會請警政署從行政上給予地方一些協助，但是也跟委員報告，國民教育以我們教育法規來講，它確實屬於地方自治，所以各縣市政府中，譬如我也在行政院的校安會議裡面特別提到，針對通學步道，中央的交通部補助了非常多錢……"],["葉委員元之：不要這樣子好不好，我跟你講的是專職交通導護問題，你又給我扯到那個通學巷去了！"],["鄭部長英耀：如果這樣，我就直接跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：對啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：從我的觀點，那是地方的權責……"],["葉委員元之：不是地方權責……"],["鄭部長英耀：他們怎麼樣去維護各縣市政府內孩子們的安全，縣市政府……"],["葉委員元之：部長，這樣子就推卸責任了。"],["鄭部長英耀：我不是推卸責任，了解我的人就很清楚，我一路以來，鄭英耀絕對不會推卸責任。"],["葉委員元之：臺北市可能會有專職交通導護問題，新北市可能有需要、臺中可能有需要、花蓮可能有需要、臺南可能有需要、高雄有可能有需要……"],["鄭部長英耀：各縣市政府有自己的……"],["葉委員元之：我還沒有講完，你不要插話好不好？如果全國都有類似、一致的需要，那就是全國一致性的問題，教育部是全國主管教育的最高機關，教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎？難道臺北市比較重視交通，所以有專職導護，臺南沒有就沒關係，這就是推卸責任嘛！如果什麼事情都推給地方的話，那教育部到底要負責什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，這不是推卸責任。"],["葉委員元之：至少教育部可以召集各縣市政府來聊一下嘛，問他們有沒有這樣的需求，臺北市也可以聽聽臺南的意見，然後臺中也聽聽新北的意見，大家來思考一下，看怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好，而且這是一個重大事件，全國關注三峽這個重大交通事件……"],["鄭部長英耀：我想讓學童……"],["葉委員元之：教育部的態度竟然說：那是地方政府的事，跟我無關！怎麼會是這種態度呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：維護學童的安全，這絕對是大家一致且共通的一個基本態度。"],["葉委員元之：所以我現在問的是一個政策問題，我的政策問題就是，現在還要讓老師去兼交通導護嗎？教育部能不能夠協同其他單位去思考，比如說由警察機關來推動，警政署有一個政策，各地可以請當地的警察局、義交協助學生上下學，這當然是中央一致的政策，怎麼會推給地方政府呢？這能不能做？"],["鄭部長英耀：這當然……我剛才也跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛，怎麼會一講就說這是地方政府的事？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上我們有跟地方政府討論這一件事情的，而且也……"],["葉委員元之：有討論？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：是開會討論嗎？還是電話討論？"],["鄭部長英耀：開會。"],["葉委員元之：開會討論？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：然後呢？結論是什麼？什麼時候開的會？"],["彭署長富源：我們在會後、今天下班前給委員資料，當時討論中有把一些縣市的經驗彙整，有些縣市用校安的導護，有些縣市用義交的導護，這些經驗我們都彙整給縣市，有些縣市發現他們還是需要老師，但老師相關的保險要做一點處理，人事總處也配合協助，所以這些資料會在下班前向委員做個報告，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：所以中央就是有角色嘛，怎麼會問到相關議題之後，中央就說那是地方政府的事，我不能接受部長這種態度啦。","最後我要問一下校安人力的問題，上次在總質詢時有跟你請教，你說5月份就會實施，對吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，事實上這個經費也都撥到……"],["葉委員元之：5月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了，所以現在學校已經可以二選一了，一個是減課津貼，另外一個是可以聘請專職的校安人員，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：我這邊有兩個建議，再請部長研究一下，第一個，如果有些學校選擇用減課津貼的方式，請未來在師培過程中增加一些校安的課程，這樣可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是不是在師培……"],["葉委員元之：或者是其他教育訓練也可以。"],["鄭部長英耀：對於教師增能，這個我們同意。"],["葉委員元之：增能這一塊，增加校安的，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：而且甚至未來引進的專業行政人員也必須要有這樣的素養。"],["葉委員元之：好，這是第一個。第二個是人力上面，因為上次我有跟部長報告，高中是6個班設置一個校安人員，國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案，要嘛可以增加一個副組長的減課津貼，第二個就是可以有一個專職校安人員，但這是全校一個，30個班也是一個，60個班也是一個，而高中是6個班就一個，請問可不可以增加？我知道部長一定會說這個和預算有關、這個是地方政府的事又怎麼樣，一定會講這些東西，搞不好又要扯到財劃法什麼的！我現在只是問你：你覺得有沒有必要增加？"],["鄭部長英耀：增加校安人力，讓學校有更安全的學習、教學環境，一直是教育部努力的目標。委員事實上也很清楚，我們必須全盤去考量總體的預算跟人力上……"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為我們今天在這邊就是討論教育議題，你認為有沒有必要增加？如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加，因為你也覺得高中6班一個，國中現在全校一個，確實人數懸殊，我們應該朝向增加的目標，後面大家再來談中央、地方大家怎麼做經費的分配嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度，我們也希望中央跟地方大家一起來合作，能夠朝這一個……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我們先訂一個目標出來再去講經費嘛！你認為國中應該要增加到幾班一個校安人員比較合理？"],["鄭部長英耀：我必須要有一個更完整的評估。"],["葉委員元之：更完整的評估？現在沒辦法回答？那要評估多久？可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育及文化委員會的委員講一下？要評估多久？"],["鄭部長英耀：是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面先做，然後再整體評估，看怎麼樣是合適的校安人力支持，我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的，但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的……"],["葉委員元之：那你講一個時間嘛！就是有關增加校安人力這一塊，你大概要評估多久？"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員，剛剛部長有提到，114學年會增加校安人力，現在增置學務人力跟副組長已經在調查，我們先做一學期看看，會蒐整一下資料……"],["葉委員元之：一學期之後來做一個評估報告？"],["彭署長富源：做為新學年的評估資訊，好不好？"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞）：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，官員請回座。","接下來有請陳秀寳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}