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{\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 95.329, \"end\": 95.789, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 95.789, \"end\": 95.889, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"壞\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 95.889, \"end\": 95.909, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 97.941, \"end\": 125.072, \"text\": \"這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 97.941, \"end\": 98.281, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 98.281, \"end\": 99.042, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 99.042, \"end\": 99.222, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 99.222, \"end\": 99.562, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 99.562, \"end\": 100.342, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": 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0.959}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 198.886, \"end\": 199.006, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 199.006, \"end\": 199.146, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 199.146, \"end\": 199.326, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 199.326, \"end\": 199.346, \"score\": 0.833}]}, {\"start\": 200.526, \"end\": 228.123, \"text\": \"因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 200.526, \"end\": 202.147, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 202.147, \"end\": 202.327, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 202.327, \"end\": 202.607, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 202.607, \"end\": 202.827, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 202.827, \"end\": 203.028, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, 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375.077, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 375.077, \"end\": 375.237, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 375.237, \"end\": 375.418, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 375.418, \"end\": 375.538, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 375.538, \"end\": 376.098, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 376.098, \"end\": 376.559, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 376.559, \"end\": 376.659, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 376.659, \"end\": 377.459, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 377.459, \"end\": 377.86, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 377.86, \"end\": 378.16, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 378.16, \"end\": 378.841, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 378.841, \"end\": 378.961, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 378.961, \"end\": 379.081, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 379.081, \"end\": 379.241, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 379.241, \"end\": 379.421, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 379.421, \"end\": 379.501, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 379.501, \"end\": 379.521, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 379.521, \"end\": 379.701, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 379.701, \"end\": 379.821, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"析\", \"start\": 379.821, \"end\": 379.841, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 382.303, \"end\": 398.229, \"text\": \"謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 382.303, \"end\": 382.723, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": 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386.004, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 386.004, \"end\": 386.345, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 386.345, \"end\": 386.945, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 386.945, \"end\": 387.585, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 387.585, \"end\": 387.745, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 387.745, \"end\": 387.845, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 387.845, \"end\": 388.045, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 388.045, \"end\": 388.305, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 388.305, \"end\": 388.405, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 388.405, \"end\": 388.585, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 388.585, \"end\": 388.785, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 388.785, \"end\": 388.905, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 388.905, \"end\": 389.706, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 394.427, \"end\": 394.727, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 394.727, \"end\": 394.888, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 394.888, \"end\": 395.048, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 395.048, \"end\": 395.268, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 395.268, \"end\": 395.468, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 395.468, \"end\": 395.648, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 395.648, \"end\": 395.788, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 395.788, \"end\": 395.928, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 395.928, \"end\": 396.148, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 396.148, \"end\": 396.708, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 396.708, \"end\": 396.928, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 396.928, \"end\": 397.048, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 397.048, \"end\": 397.208, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 397.208, \"end\": 397.388, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 397.388, \"end\": 397.809, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 397.809, \"end\": 397.949, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 397.949, \"end\": 398.049, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 398.049, \"end\": 398.069, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 398.069, \"end\": 398.209, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 398.209, \"end\": 398.229, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 399.309, \"end\": 420.187, \"text\": \"那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 399.309, \"end\": 399.429, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 399.429, \"end\": 399.529, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 399.529, \"end\": 399.649, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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00:00:45,220\n那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是\n\n3\n00:00:46,041 --> 00:00:46,581\n那如果從2015年那個\n\n4\n00:01:03,151 --> 00:01:08,993\n總貸的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總貸的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%\n\n5\n00:01:24,658 --> 00:01:35,909\n其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事\n\n6\n00:01:37,941 --> 00:02:05,072\n這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性\n\n7\n00:02:06,432 --> 00:02:24,262\n那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%\n\n8\n00:02:26,463 --> 00:02:52,792\n那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它\n\n9\n00:02:54,853 --> 00:03:19,346\n就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分\n\n10\n00:03:20,526 --> 00:03:48,123\n因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的\n\n11\n00:03:50,384 --> 00:04:13,337\n接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬50萬這個人數一直都在創高\n\n12\n00:04:14,418 --> 00:04:23,043\n甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%\n\n13\n00:04:35,569 --> 00:04:58,537\n借到8.3這男生喔女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說你要借貸那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的你可以領固定的配息\n\n14\n00:04:59,677 --> 00:05:21,977\n那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大\n\n15\n00:05:24,139 --> 00:05:46,055\n那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請\n\n16\n00:05:49,577 --> 00:06:02,138\n然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢主委\n\n17\n00:06:02,947 --> 00:06:19,841\n我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析\n\n18\n00:06:22,303 --> 00:06:38,229\n謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款\n\n19\n00:06:39,309 --> 00:07:00,187\n那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個\n\n20\n00:07:01,408 --> 00:07:10,671\n新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到\n\n21\n00:07:11,893 --> 00:07:32,720\n跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用的如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成型主委我想2005年的卡債風暴\n\n22\n00:07:35,741 --> 00:08:02,892\n這個是把我們這整整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說在那幾年有很多人就是虛家殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了300多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼那\n\n23\n00:08:04,292 --> 00:08:30,043\n要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功率呢我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢\n\n24\n00:08:31,935 --> 00:08:53,659\n我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴當那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學講提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善\n\n25\n00:08:54,600 --> 00:09:08,479\n剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們也好好來監控這個情況\n\n26\n00:09:09,881 --> 00:09:25,680\n其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能\n\n27\n00:09:26,161 --> 00:09:50,939\n我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息\n\n28\n00:09:51,539 --> 00:10:10,767\n所以就是因為在這個姿勢這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領\n\n29\n00:10:12,088 --> 00:10:40,970\n不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會\n\n30\n00:10:42,050 --> 00:10:59,645\n我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有\n\n31\n00:11:00,606 --> 00:11:20,280\n有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看當然當然當然這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供\n\n32\n00:11:21,861 --> 00:11:41,162\n針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項\n\n33\n00:11:41,903 --> 00:12:06,061\n就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬\n\n34\n00:12:07,542 --> 00:12:23,648\n這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務嚴妮是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是\n\n35\n00:12:24,708 --> 00:12:39,443\n行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者\n\n36\n00:12:41,584 --> 00:12:58,014\n主委那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1510\t在上個禮拜我們執行有關那個就是代辦的一個詐騙的問題那今天其實本席想跟你探討的就是說這個進入消費者貸款\n24446\t45220\t那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是\n46041\t46581\t那如果從2015年那個\n63151\t68993\t總貸的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總貸的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%\n84658\t95909\t其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事\n97941\t125072\t這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性\n126432\t144262\t那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%\n146463\t172792\t那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它\n174853\t199346\t就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分\n200526\t228123\t因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的\n230384\t253337\t接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下 一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬 50萬這個人數一直都在創高\n254418\t263043\t甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%\n275569\t298537\t借到8.3 這男生喔 女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說 你要借貸 那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說 你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的 你可以領固定的配息\n299677\t321977\t那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大\n324139\t346055\t那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請\n349577\t362138\t然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢 主委\n362947\t379841\t我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析\n382303\t398229\t謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款\n399309\t420187\t那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個\n421408\t430671\t新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到\n431893\t452720\t跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用的如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成型主委我想2005年的卡債風暴\n455741\t482892\t這個是把我們這整整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說在那幾年有很多人就是虛家殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了300多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼那\n484292\t510043\t要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功率呢我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢\n511935\t533659\t我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴當那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學講提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善\n534600\t548479\t剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們也好好來監控這個情況\n549881\t565680\t其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能\n566161\t590939\t我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息\n591539\t610767\t所以就是因為在這個姿勢這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領\n612088\t640970\t不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會\n642050\t659645\t我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有\n660606\t680280\t有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看當然當然當然這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供\n681861\t701162\t針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項\n701903\t726061\t就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬\n727542\t743648\t這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務嚴妮是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是\n744708\t759443\t行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者\n761584\t778014\t主委 那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是 沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","txt":"在上個禮拜我們執行有關那個就是代辦的一個詐騙的問題那今天其實本席想跟你探討的就是說這個進入消費者貸款\n那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是\n那如果從2015年那個\n總貸的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總貸的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%\n其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事\n這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性\n那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%\n那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它\n就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分\n因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的\n接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下 一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬 50萬這個人數一直都在創高\n甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%\n借到8.3 這男生喔 女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說 你要借貸 那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說 你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的 你可以領固定的配息\n那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大\n那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請\n然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢 主委\n我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析\n謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款\n那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個\n新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到\n跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用的如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成型主委我想2005年的卡債風暴\n這個是把我們這整整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說在那幾年有很多人就是虛家殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了300多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼那\n要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功率呢我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢\n我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴當那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學講提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善\n剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們也好好來監控這個情況\n其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能\n我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息\n所以就是因為在這個姿勢這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領\n不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會\n我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有\n有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看當然當然當然這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供\n針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項\n就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬\n這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務嚴妮是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是\n行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者\n主委 那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是 沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.510\n在上個禮拜我們執行有關那個就是代辦的一個詐騙的問題那今天其實本席想跟你探討的就是說這個進入消費者貸款\n\n00:24.446 --> 00:45.220\n那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是\n\n00:46.041 --> 00:46.581\n那如果從2015年那個\n\n01:03.151 --> 01:08.993\n總貸的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總貸的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%\n\n01:24.658 --> 01:35.909\n其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事\n\n01:37.941 --> 02:05.072\n這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性\n\n02:06.432 --> 02:24.262\n那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%\n\n02:26.463 --> 02:52.792\n那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它\n\n02:54.853 --> 03:19.346\n就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分\n\n03:20.526 --> 03:48.123\n因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的\n\n03:50.384 --> 04:13.337\n接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬50萬這個人數一直都在創高\n\n04:14.418 --> 04:23.043\n甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%\n\n04:35.569 --> 04:58.537\n借到8.3這男生喔女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說你要借貸那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的你可以領固定的配息\n\n04:59.677 --> 05:21.977\n那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大\n\n05:24.139 --> 05:46.055\n那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請\n\n05:49.577 --> 06:02.138\n然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢主委\n\n06:02.947 --> 06:19.841\n我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析\n\n06:22.303 --> 06:38.229\n謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款\n\n06:39.309 --> 07:00.187\n那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個\n\n07:01.408 --> 07:10.671\n新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到\n\n07:11.893 --> 07:32.720\n跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用的如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成型主委我想2005年的卡債風暴\n\n07:35.741 --> 08:02.892\n這個是把我們這整整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說在那幾年有很多人就是虛家殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了300多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼那\n\n08:04.292 --> 08:30.043\n要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功率呢我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢\n\n08:31.935 --> 08:53.659\n我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴當那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學講提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善\n\n08:54.600 --> 09:08.479\n剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們也好好來監控這個情況\n\n09:09.881 --> 09:25.680\n其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能\n\n09:26.161 --> 09:50.939\n我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息\n\n09:51.539 --> 10:10.767\n所以就是因為在這個姿勢這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領\n\n10:12.088 --> 10:40.970\n不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會\n\n10:42.050 --> 10:59.645\n我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有\n\n11:00.606 --> 11:20.280\n有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看當然當然當然這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供\n\n11:21.861 --> 11:41.162\n針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項\n\n11:41.903 --> 12:06.061\n就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬\n\n12:07.542 --> 12:23.648\n這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務嚴妮是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是\n\n12:24.708 --> 12:39.443\n行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者\n\n12:41.584 --> 12:58.014\n主委那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.51,"text":"在上個禮拜我們執行有關那個就是代辦的一個詐騙的問題那今天其實本席想跟你探討的就是說這個進入消費者貸款"},{"start":24.446,"end":45.22,"text":"那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是"},{"start":46.041,"end":46.581,"text":"那如果從2015年那個"},{"start":63.151,"end":68.993,"text":"總貸的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總貸的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%"},{"start":84.658,"end":95.909,"text":"其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事"},{"start":97.941,"end":125.072,"text":"這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分布以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性"},{"start":126.432,"end":144.262,"text":"那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%"},{"start":146.463,"end":172.792,"text":"那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它"},{"start":174.853,"end":199.346,"text":"就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分"},{"start":200.526,"end":228.123,"text":"因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是七二之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的"},{"start":230.384,"end":253.337,"text":"接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下 一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬 50萬這個人數一直都在創高"},{"start":254.418,"end":263.043,"text":"甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%"},{"start":275.569,"end":298.537,"text":"借到8.3 這男生喔 女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說 你要借貸 那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說 你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的 你可以領固定的配息"},{"start":299.677,"end":321.977,"text":"那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大"},{"start":324.139,"end":346.055,"text":"那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請"},{"start":349.577,"end":362.138,"text":"然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢 主委"},{"start":362.947,"end":379.841,"text":"我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析"},{"start":382.303,"end":398.229,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款"},{"start":399.309,"end":420.187,"text":"那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個"},{"start":421.408,"end":430.671,"text":"新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到"},{"start":431.893,"end":452.72,"text":"跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用的如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成型主委我想2005年的卡債風暴"},{"start":455.741,"end":482.892,"text":"這個是把我們這整整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說在那幾年有很多人就是虛家殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了300多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼那"},{"start":484.292,"end":510.043,"text":"要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功率呢我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢"},{"start":511.935,"end":533.659,"text":"我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴當那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學講提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善"},{"start":534.6,"end":548.479,"text":"剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們也好好來監控這個情況"},{"start":549.881,"end":565.68,"text":"其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能"},{"start":566.161,"end":590.939,"text":"我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息"},{"start":591.539,"end":610.767,"text":"所以就是因為在這個姿勢這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領"},{"start":612.088,"end":640.97,"text":"不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會"},{"start":642.05,"end":659.645,"text":"我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有"},{"start":660.606,"end":680.28,"text":"有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看當然當然當然這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供"},{"start":681.861,"end":701.162,"text":"針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項"},{"start":701.903,"end":726.061,"text":"就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬"},{"start":727.542,"end":743.648,"text":"這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務嚴妮是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是"},{"start":744.708,"end":759.443,"text":"行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者"},{"start":761.584,"end":778.014,"text":"主委 那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是 沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":648,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（11時9分）謝謝主席，有請金管會主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：主委早安。上個禮拜我們質詢有關代辦的詐騙問題，今天本席想跟你探討的是消費者貸款，消費者貸款突破了13兆，我們從央行的資料裡面看到，從2015年7.45兆，到今年3月已經突破了13兆，這就表示國人的消費貸款金額很明顯地一直在改變，國人會不會已經進入一個大負債時代？事實上、基本上是肯定的。我們又從央行和主計總處的資料裡頭看到，2015年總貸款額度是7.45兆，當時的GDP是17兆，7.45兆占GDP的44%，可是到了2024年的總貸款金額是12.92兆，GDP是25.55兆，占了51%，其實我們都看到了數字的跳動，主委，你認為消費者貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果是從這個數字來看，我們看到數字是往上升，但是消費者貸款要看這些消費者的分布，以及貸款的型態是什麼，有可能是信用卡或是其他的方式，比如多元支付所產生的，都有可能，另外就是房貸，不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性。"],["賴委員惠員：從這個圓餅圖來看，信用卡循環信用餘額其實才占1%，房貸占86%，房屋修繕貸款是零，汽車貸款是2%，林林總總，還有個人消費性貸款占了11%，可以看到房貸占了非常重要的比例。信貸、卡循年變化率也增加，從我們抓出來的資料可以看到都明顯地上升，尤其是在疫情這段時間，這段時間當然會上升，可是2025年基本上沒有特別的狀況，但是2024、2025年我們都明顯看到信用貸款上升，主委，你認為是什麼原因造成的呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實委員從剛剛的圓餅圖就可以看得出來，其中大部分都是房貸，十一點多兆是自用住宅的部分，看起來有兩大塊── 一個是信用卡的部分，一個就是房貸的部分。我想大家都知道，最近幾年房地產非常的景氣，所以購屋的人也很多，移轉棟數也很多，貸款也在增加，所以去年大家很關心的就是第七十二條之二的水位是不是過高，還有央行也出來做了信用管制，我想都是因為很多因素總結起來的。"],["賴委員惠員：再接著跟主委探討一下信貸的部分，剛好有兩大族群，一個是30歲以下，一個是61歲以上，60歲以下有一個很大的數據讓我們很害怕，每個人平均信貸金額達50萬，而且人數一直在創高，60歲以上成長了146%，30歲以下成長了124%。30歲以下的利率一定會比較高，男生的平均利率是8.3%，女生是8.9%；60歲以上是5.3%及5.4%，甚至我們在Google鍵入借貸、投資，它很明顯就告訴你，你要去買ETF，因為可以領取固定配息。對於61歲以上有一筆退休基金的族群，銀行可能會跟你講，你可以做什麼樣、什麼樣的投資，可是30歲以下的這些大學生、這些年輕人，甚至才剛進入社會，他們面臨到的是投資觀念的不正確，才會導致負債比這麼大，我們怎麼來解決新型債務年輕化的問題？甚至我們還看到了一個非常聳動的學生貸，只要有一支手機，普匯幫你完成你的夢想，靠一支手機你可以借到額度最高15萬，每個月利息最低255元，看起來又好申請、審核又快，1個小時就放款了，普匯就是快，又有隱私，主委，你怎麼看新型債務年輕化呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個部分剛才委員的資料已經非常非常充分的看出各個年齡層，比如在各個年齡層中，現在年輕人確實是舉債上面看起來是比較積極的，相關的內容我可以請童局長跟你簡單做個分析。"],["賴委員惠員：好，童局長。"],["童局長政彰：謝謝委員關心這個議題，的確，我們過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分，不管是針對哪一個族群，年輕族群也好或是高齡族群也好，我們都有DBR22倍的限制，也就是必須要衡量他的收入，才可以做對等的消費性貸款。另外一個部分，委員這個投影片所出示的，應該也就是委員所關心的，有類似這種所謂的貸款仲介公司，這個部分上一次有跟委員報告過，銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進件的案件之外，我們會再……"],["賴委員惠員：局長，你有沒有感受到有類金融或更大的新型債務風暴正在成形，你感受得到嗎？從這麼多的數據中，我列出這麼多的數據給你看，你有沒有感受到？"],["童局長政彰：跟委員報告，你提示的這部分我們會加強注意，但是在銀行體系的部分，消金信用的管控……"],["賴委員惠員：如果撇開銀行的部分，我們不要談，其實我今天要跟你們談的就是新型債務，不管是年輕化或是一個龐大的債務，其實都正在成形。主委，2005年的卡債風暴把我們整體社會帶入一個非常恐慌的時期，甚至看到了很多案例，在那幾年有很多人攜家帶眷去躲債，跑掉了，在臺北市還有一戶只因為欠了三百多萬的卡債，6個人有5個人陸續在松山的成美橋跳河自殺，造成社會很大的震撼。我要跟你探討的是債務協商，消費者債務清理條例在2008年成立，可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續成效，這些成功的例子我們看不到，消債條例在上路之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了，解決了很多人的債務問題，可是後面呢？後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛才委員提到2005年的雙卡風暴，那時候引發很多問題，當時很多學生會辦卡、辦現金卡，剛才童局長也提到後來整個銀行體系痛定思痛，針對KYC以及風控部分已經有大幅改善。剛剛提到這部分，當然隨著另外一種環境的變更，假設未來有這些潛在的威脅，我也會請銀行局針對銀行體系的部分好好的來監控這個情況。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，其實你上任到現在，你算是一個非常願意做事，也非常有創意性的主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["賴委員惠員：如果我們給經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不背債的機會，有沒有可能？當然有可能。我們引用及找到很多的數據，它告訴我們如果從學校到社會全面去推動金融識讀，其實在金融院2023年的報告有特別講到，他們調查有60%以上的大學生沒有辦法真正理解信用卡的循環利息，就是因為知識這麼淺薄，他們沒有辦法了解到負債的嚴重性，所以掉進來了。甚至在國外，比照美國ESA的制度，由政府跟雇主共同去建立「不可提領儲蓄帳戶」，專門用在醫療、失業及災難上，你看有很多人就是因為醫療，當他生病了、他沒有錢，還是他的人生做了一個很大的變化、降低下來，那是不是有辦法去推動這樣的設計，提升年輕人在財務上的脆弱性，有沒有機會？"],["彭主任委員金隆：在我上任以後，我也跟銀行局講，普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層，尤其現在我們的青年在金融服務上面相對是弱勢，所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升，剛剛委員有提到幾個想法，我以前都還不知道，我想這部分我會……"],["賴委員惠員：是不是回去研究看看？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然、當然。這個東西我們來看看，比如說，是不是金融市場能著力，還有我們針對金融機構，至少金融機構是在我們很明確地管理之下，我們鼓勵也希望他們多多提供符合青年朋友們的金融商品，這部分也是我們正在請銀行加強推動的部分。"],["賴委員惠員：所以主委，我們給年輕人一個不背債的機會，本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回復一下研議事項。第一，檢討消債條例施行成效跟改善策略，並且研擬建立聲請消債或是債務協商者的追蹤跟輔導機制，我們要加強資訊的揭露。第二，研擬加強提升金融理財教育，這個理財教育相當相當地重要，還有風險模擬、評估暨預警機制，我們希望提升年輕世代財務韌性方案。第三點，對於金融消費者的保護，尤其是對於金融創新的業務，研擬是不是可以比照英、美等國家轉向行為監理，這個行為監理非常非常重要，不要都只靠金融機構，其實還有類金融行為都要納管，以免漏接消費者。主委，本席對你這樣的要求，請把書面回復給本席。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，沒問題。特別是剛剛委員提到的第三個，剛剛也有委員提到的金融消費者保護法納管，就是針對行為管理，就是這個方向，好，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["主席（賴委員惠員）：謝謝羅明才委員。","接著請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-14","speakers":["賴惠員","沈發惠","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","鍾佳濱","林思銘","顏寬恒","羅明才","李坤城","陳玉珍","李彥秀","王世堅","黃珊珊","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「國際金融業務條例」8案：(一)本院委員沈發惠等18人、委員鍾佳濱等17人分別擬具\n「國際金融業務條例第十三條、第二十二條之七及第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等 2 案、\n(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員李坤城等20人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員郭國文等19人、委員羅\n廷瑋等17人、委員陳玉珍等16人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」\n等6案；二、審查「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法」9案：(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員鍾佳\n濱等20人、委員李坤城等19人、委員沈發惠等18人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部\n分條文修正草案」等 4 案、 ( 二 ) 本院委員林楚茵等 17 人、委員王鴻薇等 19 人、委員郭國文等 18\n人、委員賴士葆等32人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一條文修正草案」等\n4案、(三)本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一及第二十條\n條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145401_00006"}}}