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\"好\", \"start\": 476.145, \"end\": 476.165, \"score\": 0.146}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,513 --> 00:00:24,731\n好謝謝主席我們請主委好陳代主委主委好這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下\n\n2\n00:00:26,653 --> 00:00:26,873\n這個其實我在諮詢這邊也\n\n3\n00:00:50,829 --> 00:01:07,858\n講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的那個\n\n4\n00:01:09,367 --> 00:01:28,502\n資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚\n\n5\n00:01:31,116 --> 00:01:55,131\n這個坦白講啦要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域比如說網路啊或者社群媒體那邊\n\n6\n00:01:55,896 --> 00:02:24,119\n所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在\n\n7\n00:02:25,225 --> 00:02:25,466\n處理還是電腦在處理\n\n8\n00:02:28,608 --> 00:02:56,180\n有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊就自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK\n\n9\n00:02:57,060 --> 00:03:08,118\n所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸\n\n10\n00:03:09,895 --> 00:03:31,195\n啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通\n\n11\n00:03:33,749 --> 00:03:49,511\n坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙\n\n12\n00:03:51,176 --> 00:04:02,206\n那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那\n\n13\n00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:31,944\n因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的\n\n14\n00:04:34,085 --> 00:05:03,124\n分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的\n\n15\n00:05:04,309 --> 00:05:20,003\n好那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC\n\n16\n00:05:21,264 --> 00:05:39,233\n討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通那時候是很嚇人的\n\n17\n00:05:42,350 --> 00:06:10,947\n我都等到五百多萬通也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說又是一陣困擾啦要怎麼讓它留住啦我是覺得這個部分希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這一塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好那再來就是那個\n\n18\n00:06:12,088 --> 00:06:24,782\n你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了\n\n19\n00:06:25,677 --> 00:06:51,799\n好因為時間差不多了所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛對不對公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準\n\n20\n00:06:52,995 --> 00:07:04,593\n是我們現在同仁已經在研擬在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒\n\n21\n00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:29,986\n已經退了百分之八十了百分之八十已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下\n\n22\n00:07:30,726 --> 00:07:56,165\n然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1513\t24731\t好 謝謝主席 我們請主委好 陳代主委主委好 這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下\n26653\t26873\t這個其實我在諮詢這邊也\n50829\t67858\t講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的那個\n69367\t88502\t資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚\n91116\t115131\t這個坦白講啦 要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛 對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳 因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊 只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域 比如說網路啊 或者社群媒體那邊\n115896\t144119\t所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在\n145225\t145466\t處理還是電腦在處理\n148608\t176180\t有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊就自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK\n177060\t188118\t所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸\n189895\t211195\t啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通\n213749\t229511\t坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙\n231176\t242206\t那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那\n246550\t271944\t因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的\n274085\t303124\t分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的\n304309\t320003\t好 那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC\n321264\t339233\t討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通那時候是很嚇人的\n342350\t370947\t我都等到五百多萬通 也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說 又是一陣困擾啦要怎麼讓它留住啦我是覺得這個部分 希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好 精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這一塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好 那再來就是那個\n372088\t384782\t你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了\n385677\t411799\t好 因為時間差不多了 所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛 對不對 公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準\n412995\t424593\t是 我們現在同仁已經在研擬在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒\n425450\t449986\t已經退了百分之八十了 百分之八十已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係 這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分 那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完 做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下\n450726\t476165\t然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請主委好 陳代主委主委好 這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下\n這個其實我在諮詢這邊也\n講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的那個\n資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚\n這個坦白講啦 要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛 對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳 因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊 只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域 比如說網路啊 或者社群媒體那邊\n所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在\n處理還是電腦在處理\n有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊就自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK\n所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸\n啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通\n坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙\n那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那\n因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的\n分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的\n好 那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC\n討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通那時候是很嚇人的\n我都等到五百多萬通 也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說 又是一陣困擾啦要怎麼讓它留住啦我是覺得這個部分 希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好 精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這一塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好 那再來就是那個\n你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了\n好 因為時間差不多了 所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛 對不對 公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準\n是 我們現在同仁已經在研擬在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒\n已經退了百分之八十了 百分之八十已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係 這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分 那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完 做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下\n然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.513 --> 00:24.731\n好謝謝主席我們請主委好陳代主委主委好這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下\n\n00:26.653 --> 00:26.873\n這個其實我在諮詢這邊也\n\n00:50.829 --> 01:07.858\n講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的那個\n\n01:09.367 --> 01:28.502\n資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚\n\n01:31.116 --> 01:55.131\n這個坦白講啦要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域比如說網路啊或者社群媒體那邊\n\n01:55.896 --> 02:24.119\n所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在\n\n02:25.225 --> 02:25.466\n處理還是電腦在處理\n\n02:28.608 --> 02:56.180\n有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊就自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK\n\n02:57.060 --> 03:08.118\n所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸\n\n03:09.895 --> 03:31.195\n啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通\n\n03:33.749 --> 03:49.511\n坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙\n\n03:51.176 --> 04:02.206\n那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那\n\n04:06.550 --> 04:31.944\n因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的\n\n04:34.085 --> 05:03.124\n分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的\n\n05:04.309 --> 05:20.003\n好那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC\n\n05:21.264 --> 05:39.233\n討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通那時候是很嚇人的\n\n05:42.350 --> 06:10.947\n我都等到五百多萬通也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說又是一陣困擾啦要怎麼讓它留住啦我是覺得這個部分希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這一塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好那再來就是那個\n\n06:12.088 --> 06:24.782\n你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了\n\n06:25.677 --> 06:51.799\n好因為時間差不多了所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛對不對公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準\n\n06:52.995 --> 07:04.593\n是我們現在同仁已經在研擬在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒\n\n07:05.450 --> 07:29.986\n已經退了百分之八十了百分之八十已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下\n\n07:30.726 --> 07:56.165\n然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.513,"end":24.731,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請主委好 陳代主委主委好 這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下"},{"start":26.653,"end":26.873,"text":"這個其實我在諮詢這邊也"},{"start":50.829,"end":67.858,"text":"講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的那個"},{"start":69.367,"end":88.502,"text":"資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚"},{"start":91.116,"end":115.131,"text":"這個坦白講啦 要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛 對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳 因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊 只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域 比如說網路啊 或者社群媒體那邊"},{"start":115.896,"end":144.119,"text":"所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在"},{"start":145.225,"end":145.466,"text":"處理還是電腦在處理"},{"start":148.608,"end":176.18,"text":"有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊就自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK"},{"start":177.06,"end":188.118,"text":"所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸"},{"start":189.895,"end":211.195,"text":"啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通"},{"start":213.749,"end":229.511,"text":"坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙"},{"start":231.176,"end":242.206,"text":"那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那"},{"start":246.55,"end":271.944,"text":"因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的"},{"start":274.085,"end":303.124,"text":"分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的"},{"start":304.309,"end":320.003,"text":"好 那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC"},{"start":321.264,"end":339.233,"text":"討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通那時候是很嚇人的"},{"start":342.35,"end":370.947,"text":"我都等到五百多萬通 也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說 又是一陣困擾啦要怎麼讓它留住啦我是覺得這個部分 希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好 精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這一塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好 那再來就是那個"},{"start":372.088,"end":384.782,"text":"你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了"},{"start":385.677,"end":411.799,"text":"好 因為時間差不多了 所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛 對不對 公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準"},{"start":412.995,"end":424.593,"text":"是 我們現在同仁已經在研擬在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒"},{"start":425.45,"end":449.986,"text":"已經退了百分之八十了 百分之八十已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係 這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分 那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完 做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下"},{"start":450.726,"end":476.165,"text":"然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":607,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（11時5分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：好，陳代主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：召委好。"],["許委員智傑：主委好。詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題，有關NCC對於詐騙的成果，你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意？可以跟國人講一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，我們認為我們及格但是不滿意，因為詐騙集團的詐騙伎倆不斷地提升，我們也必須要不斷地精進，所以我們還是要跟同仁一起持續努力，也跟相關部會持續協防。"],["許委員智傑：這部分其實我質詢也講過很多次，也希望NCC可以更主動積極，就是從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣把它攔阻下來？我跟NCC要你們的資料，從112年5月陸續實施，已經從5,000萬通降到500萬通，這個數據是你們給我們的，你自己清楚嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：清楚。"],["許委員智傑：坦白講，要給你們鼓勵一下，因為這個已經攔掉了近九成，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["許委員智傑：但是民眾好像不是那麼的清楚。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們會持續宣導，因為詐騙集團從國際來話這條路被我們擋住之後，它就流到其他的領域，比方說網路或者是社群媒體那邊。"],["許委員智傑：其實我要講的是，今天我們有要求，你們有做事，然後也有一點成果，這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講，國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事。而現在還有585萬通，到目前為止不知道還有沒有再攔下更多，這個部分是人工處理還是電腦處理？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：大部分是電腦自動處理，比方當初他是偽冒國內的行動電話，我們透過三家查到這個客戶根本沒有出國，不可能海外漫遊回來，那就自動把他攔阻掉；另外一些偽冒我們國內的市話，國內的市話、臺北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來，針對這些自然判斷邏輯不對、異常部分，直接在電腦端設定好就把它攔阻掉了。"],["許委員智傑：OK，所以針對你們攔掉的通數，我就說要先給你們鼓勵，這個你們要宣傳啦，就像出國回來在機場可以買一條菸、可以買一瓶酒，其他的不行，對不對？國人大概都知道了嘛。你們其實有成功的攔下，現在大部分的人民都覺得接到詐騙電話就很討厭，然後就是政府沒做事，一般人民就會這麼想。坦白講，585萬通當然還是很多、很多、很多啦，也還是有很多人民受騙。所以我們應該是分兩個部分來講，你今天有做事必須要宣傳，讓人民知道NCC幫忙做了多少事、擋掉了多少的詐騙；另外，針對這585萬通，我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進、再去減得更低？我想這就是一個態度。","你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔，因為這背後是「B2B2C」嘛，C如果是受詐騙的民眾，B如果是中華電信的hub，原來的B是詐騙集團，那你今天這樣子的處理方式，是不是有機會把電腦的程式或者是再引進AI的學習模式，把這個詐騙分類、學習然後攔阻，整體可以更有效率？這個部分我建議NCC可以考量一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，其實在簡訊的部分，業者也有引入AI，三大都有，語音的部分，他們也有適度運用AI的能力處理。"],["許委員智傑：OK，包括你們的語音接聽警示，接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦！你們有沒有什麼成果是可以跟人民報告的？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們會適當的……不管是FB還是相關部分，我們會就委員的指示，就我們目前辦的、一些努力的部分適當對外揭露。"],["許委員智傑：好，今天的重點就是要跟NCC討論，你要儘量整理你的成果跟需要精進的技巧、可以再攔阻的問題，然後跟人民報告，或者是做一個宣傳，讓人民知道，事實上真的有做的事情。其實五千多萬通實在是很嚇人啦！能擋到五百多萬通也算有水準了啦！當然五百多萬通對民眾來說還是很困擾，要怎麼再讓它減少，我希望NCC也要讓人民知道我們政府有在做事，需要再精進的作為是什麼，希望這個可以思考一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，關於精進作為的部分，主要是在網路電話這一塊處理，我們目前也有做一些攔阻，未來也會用語音警示處理。"],["許委員智傑：好，再來就是電信管理業務規費……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就是上次的那個……那一部分，322位目前已經有80%完成退費了。"],["許委員智傑：好，因為時間差不多了，所以我再跟你們強調一次，今天是公司的要收費嘛？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對。"],["許委員智傑：個人帶3個以上的要收費？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：2部以下的……"],["許委員智傑：2部以下的不用收費，你未來還有可能再增加的部分，關於這個機制，我想你們也要訂一個合理的收費標準。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，現在同仁已經在研擬、在進行當中。"],["許委員智傑：所以我講的是，你今天慢慢的有那個態度，就是你今天有做的，今天有322個人退款，已經退了沒？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：已經退了80%。"],["許委員智傑：退完了嘛？80%，怎麼沒有100%？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：80%已經退，有些是連絡不到或是他的退款帳號有一些問題。"],["許委員智傑：OK，沒關係，我是要提醒你，這個算是NCC有改善的部分，我們有要求要改善的部分，確實也有成果，還沒有做完的趕快把它做完。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["許委員智傑：做完以後可以讓民眾知道一下。再來是未來有可能再增加的部分，你們要怎麼樣去防範、怎麼樣去訂一個更合理的標準，我希望這個部分NCC可以考量。今天質詢的兩個重點，一個就是你們有做的，要讓人民知道，要再改善的部分，也讓人民知道你用什麼方法，這兩個概念，希望NCC可以多講，不要讓人覺得你們都沒做事情啦！了解我意思嗎？有做的就是要講啦！謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，謝謝委員、謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑召委的質詢。","現在請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-13","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李昆澤","蔡其昌","魯明哲","林俊憲","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","黃健豪","許智傑","徐富癸","林國成","邱若華","林月琴","游顥","王鴻薇","黃健豪"],"page_start":421,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理 113 年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計 15\n案；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結案計2案；三、繼續審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21\n人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第\n七十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145501_00016"}}}