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\"校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 843.719, \"end\": 843.899, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 843.899, \"end\": 844.08, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 844.08, \"end\": 844.2, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 844.2, \"end\": 844.34, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 844.34, \"end\": 844.46, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 844.46, \"end\": 844.6, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 844.6, \"end\": 844.74, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 844.74, \"end\": 844.8, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 844.8, \"end\": 844.98, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 844.98, \"end\": 845.14, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 845.14, \"end\": 845.4, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 845.4, \"end\": 845.52, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"不\", 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,149 --> 00:00:21,456\n部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校\n\n2\n00:00:22,316 --> 00:00:37,895\n那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以\n\n3\n00:00:38,908 --> 00:00:57,211\n原住民的文化語言知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是\n\n4\n00:00:57,952 --> 00:01:11,500\n大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見沒有共識所以呢我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃\n\n5\n00:01:14,722 --> 00:01:42,949\n台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求\n\n6\n00:01:43,891 --> 00:01:49,561\n就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了\n\n7\n00:01:50,732 --> 00:02:19,011\n國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中\n\n8\n00:02:22,113 --> 00:02:41,544\n他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法\n\n9\n00:02:42,905 --> 00:02:56,357\n開發出各式各樣的課程教材教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組\n\n10\n00:02:57,338 --> 00:03:04,600\n到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎\n\n11\n00:03:16,055 --> 00:03:38,637\n部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是\n\n12\n00:03:40,279 --> 00:03:54,738\n研明會在跟這個國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所\n\n13\n00:03:55,899 --> 00:04:22,792\n那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡邊也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡邊確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個\n\n14\n00:04:23,812 --> 00:04:41,944\n第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上\n\n15\n00:04:42,604 --> 00:05:05,018\n謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年\n\n16\n00:05:05,658 --> 00:05:24,825\n各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材\n\n17\n00:05:25,225 --> 00:05:28,887\n我希望有一個整合型的研究計畫我衝個10秒一下國研剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往\n\n18\n00:05:54,541 --> 00:06:23,280\n實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計畫案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育\n\n19\n00:06:24,281 --> 00:06:42,830\n而且是全面的推展園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期196019701980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍\n\n20\n00:06:43,610 --> 00:07:03,985\n所以在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習場域所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫\n\n21\n00:07:05,606 --> 00:07:25,878\n就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分\n\n22\n00:07:26,798 --> 00:07:40,278\n我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上\n\n23\n00:07:42,697 --> 00:08:01,291\n沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長譽有的\n\n24\n00:08:03,012 --> 00:08:20,763\n所以呢依然有學校有這個心他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是我們一直談全民原教全民原教\n\n25\n00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:43,135\n原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校\n\n26\n00:08:45,592 --> 00:09:09,575\n我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣\n\n27\n00:09:10,296 --> 00:09:23,246\n那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的學會我覺得可以用幾句學生數的幾句來協助這個我們的\n\n28\n00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:45,944\n謝謝謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是\n\n29\n00:09:47,606 --> 00:10:06,168\n確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啊你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事\n\n30\n00:10:07,972 --> 00:10:30,589\n所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說\n\n31\n00:10:32,231 --> 00:10:53,694\n會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突\n\n32\n00:10:56,161 --> 00:11:24,053\n110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解\n\n33\n00:11:25,290 --> 00:11:49,722\n公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是濫訴\n\n34\n00:11:51,499 --> 00:11:52,902\n他會覺得可能費時費錢\n\n35\n00:11:55,987 --> 00:12:22,165\n那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉\n\n36\n00:12:24,286 --> 00:12:42,714\n像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切\n\n37\n00:12:44,597 --> 00:13:06,800\n所以乾脆通通受理通通懲案學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中他要學校的校事會議校長家長的代表行政人員代表學校教師代表一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中他只會評五位因為每一個都要錢嘛\n\n38\n00:13:07,641 --> 00:13:16,429\n學校還要負擔那個出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人\n\n39\n00:13:17,714 --> 00:13:40,391\n我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴\n\n40\n00:13:42,012 --> 00:13:57,065\n不希望冤枉然後呢不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師\n\n41\n00:14:03,719 --> 00:14:20,651\n校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到\n\n42\n00:14:21,371 --> 00:14:40,966\n我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長\n\n43\n00:14:44,662 --> 00:15:01,792\n我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪其擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同\n\n44\n00:15:02,572 --> 00:15:20,521\n那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走\n\n45\n00:15:21,461 --> 00:15:41,708\n停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行\n\n46\n00:15:42,788 --> 00:16:00,476\n這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟\n\n47\n00:16:05,738 --> 00:16:25,767\n孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分\n\n48\n00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:34,791\n好那在這邊就謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢觀眾請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1149\t21456\t部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校\n22316\t37895\t那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以\n38908\t57211\t原住民的文化語言知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是\n57952\t71500\t大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見 沒有共識所以呢 我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃\n74722\t102949\t台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求\n103891\t109561\t就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了\n110732\t139011\t國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中\n142113\t161544\t他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法\n162905\t176357\t開發出各式各樣的課程 教材 教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫 去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組\n177338\t184600\t到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎\n196055\t218637\t部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是\n220279\t234738\t研明會在跟這個國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所\n235899\t262792\t那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡邊也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡邊確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個\n263812\t281944\t第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上\n282604\t305018\t謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年\n305658\t324825\t各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材\n325225\t328887\t我希望有一個整合型的研究計畫我衝個10秒一下 國研剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往\n354541\t383280\t實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計畫案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育\n384281\t402830\t而且是全面的推展 園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期1960 1970 1980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍\n403610\t423985\t所以在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習場域所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫\n425606\t445878\t就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分\n446798\t460278\t我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上\n462697\t481291\t沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長譽有的\n483012\t500763\t所以呢 依然有學校有這個心他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部 國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是我們一直談全民原教 全民原教\n502199\t523135\t原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校\n525592\t549575\t我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣\n550296\t563246\t那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的學會我覺得可以用幾句學生數的幾句來協助這個我們的\n569030\t585944\t謝謝 謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是\n587606\t606168\t確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啊你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事\n607972\t630589\t所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說\n632231\t653694\t會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突\n656161\t684053\t110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解\n685290\t709722\t公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是濫訴\n711499\t712902\t他會覺得可能費時費錢\n715987\t742165\t那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉\n744286\t762714\t像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切\n764597\t786800\t所以乾脆通通受理 通通懲案 學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中 他要學校的校事會議 校長 家長的代表行政人員代表 學校教師代表 一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中 他只會評五位 因為每一個都要錢嘛\n787641\t796429\t學校還要負擔那個出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人\n797714\t820391\t我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴\n822012\t837065\t不希望冤枉然後呢 不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師\n843719\t860651\t校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到\n861371\t880966\t我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長\n884662\t901792\t我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪其擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同\n902572\t920521\t那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走\n921461\t941708\t停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行\n942788\t960476\t這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟\n965738\t985767\t孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分\n991590\t994791\t好 那在這邊就謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢 觀眾請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢\n","txt":"部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校\n那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以\n原住民的文化語言知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是\n大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見 沒有共識所以呢 我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃\n台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求\n就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了\n國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中\n他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法\n開發出各式各樣的課程 教材 教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫 去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組\n到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎\n部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是\n研明會在跟這個國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所\n那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡邊也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡邊確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個\n第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上\n謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年\n各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材\n我希望有一個整合型的研究計畫我衝個10秒一下 國研剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往\n實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計畫案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育\n而且是全面的推展 園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期1960 1970 1980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍\n所以在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習場域所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫\n就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分\n我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上\n沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長譽有的\n所以呢 依然有學校有這個心他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部 國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是我們一直談全民原教 全民原教\n原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校\n我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣\n那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的學會我覺得可以用幾句學生數的幾句來協助這個我們的\n謝謝 謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是\n確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啊你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事\n所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說\n會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突\n110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解\n公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是濫訴\n他會覺得可能費時費錢\n那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉\n像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切\n所以乾脆通通受理 通通懲案 學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中 他要學校的校事會議 校長 家長的代表行政人員代表 學校教師代表 一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中 他只會評五位 因為每一個都要錢嘛\n學校還要負擔那個出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人\n我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴\n不希望冤枉然後呢 不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師\n校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到\n我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長\n我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪其擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同\n那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走\n停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行\n這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟\n孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分\n好 那在這邊就謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢 觀眾請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.149 --> 00:21.456\n部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校\n\n00:22.316 --> 00:37.895\n那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以\n\n00:38.908 --> 00:57.211\n原住民的文化語言知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是\n\n00:57.952 --> 01:11.500\n大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見沒有共識所以呢我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃\n\n01:14.722 --> 01:42.949\n台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求\n\n01:43.891 --> 01:49.561\n就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了\n\n01:50.732 --> 02:19.011\n國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中\n\n02:22.113 --> 02:41.544\n他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法\n\n02:42.905 --> 02:56.357\n開發出各式各樣的課程教材教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組\n\n02:57.338 --> 03:04.600\n到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎\n\n03:16.055 --> 03:38.637\n部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是\n\n03:40.279 --> 03:54.738\n研明會在跟這個國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所\n\n03:55.899 --> 04:22.792\n那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡邊也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡邊確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個\n\n04:23.812 --> 04:41.944\n第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上\n\n04:42.604 --> 05:05.018\n謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年\n\n05:05.658 --> 05:24.825\n各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材\n\n05:25.225 --> 05:28.887\n我希望有一個整合型的研究計畫我衝個10秒一下國研剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往\n\n05:54.541 --> 06:23.280\n實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計畫案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育\n\n06:24.281 --> 06:42.830\n而且是全面的推展園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期196019701980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍\n\n06:43.610 --> 07:03.985\n所以在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習場域所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫\n\n07:05.606 --> 07:25.878\n就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分\n\n07:26.798 --> 07:40.278\n我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上\n\n07:42.697 --> 08:01.291\n沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長譽有的\n\n08:03.012 --> 08:20.763\n所以呢依然有學校有這個心他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是我們一直談全民原教全民原教\n\n08:22.199 --> 08:43.135\n原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校\n\n08:45.592 --> 09:09.575\n我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣\n\n09:10.296 --> 09:23.246\n那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的學會我覺得可以用幾句學生數的幾句來協助這個我們的\n\n09:29.030 --> 09:45.944\n謝謝謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是\n\n09:47.606 --> 10:06.168\n確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啊你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事\n\n10:07.972 --> 10:30.589\n所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說\n\n10:32.231 --> 10:53.694\n會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突\n\n10:56.161 --> 11:24.053\n110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解\n\n11:25.290 --> 11:49.722\n公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是濫訴\n\n11:51.499 --> 11:52.902\n他會覺得可能費時費錢\n\n11:55.987 --> 12:22.165\n那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉\n\n12:24.286 --> 12:42.714\n像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切\n\n12:44.597 --> 13:06.800\n所以乾脆通通受理通通懲案學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中他要學校的校事會議校長家長的代表行政人員代表學校教師代表一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中他只會評五位因為每一個都要錢嘛\n\n13:07.641 --> 13:16.429\n學校還要負擔那個出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人\n\n13:17.714 --> 13:40.391\n我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴\n\n13:42.012 --> 13:57.065\n不希望冤枉然後呢不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師\n\n14:03.719 --> 14:20.651\n校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到\n\n14:21.371 --> 14:40.966\n我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長\n\n14:44.662 --> 15:01.792\n我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪其擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同\n\n15:02.572 --> 15:20.521\n那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走\n\n15:21.461 --> 15:41.708\n停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行\n\n15:42.788 --> 16:00.476\n這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟\n\n16:05.738 --> 16:25.767\n孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分\n\n16:31.590 --> 16:34.791\n好那在這邊就謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢觀眾請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.149,"end":21.456,"text":"部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校"},{"start":22.316,"end":37.895,"text":"那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以"},{"start":38.908,"end":57.211,"text":"原住民的文化語言知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是"},{"start":57.952,"end":71.5,"text":"大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見 沒有共識所以呢 我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃"},{"start":74.722,"end":102.949,"text":"台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求"},{"start":103.891,"end":109.561,"text":"就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了"},{"start":110.732,"end":139.011,"text":"國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中"},{"start":142.113,"end":161.544,"text":"他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法"},{"start":162.905,"end":176.357,"text":"開發出各式各樣的課程 教材 教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫 去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組"},{"start":177.338,"end":184.6,"text":"到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎"},{"start":196.055,"end":218.637,"text":"部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是"},{"start":220.279,"end":234.738,"text":"研明會在跟這個國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所"},{"start":235.899,"end":262.792,"text":"那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡邊也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡邊確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個"},{"start":263.812,"end":281.944,"text":"第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上"},{"start":282.604,"end":305.018,"text":"謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年"},{"start":305.658,"end":324.825,"text":"各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材"},{"start":325.225,"end":328.887,"text":"我希望有一個整合型的研究計畫我衝個10秒一下 國研剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往"},{"start":354.541,"end":383.28,"text":"實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計畫案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育"},{"start":384.281,"end":402.83,"text":"而且是全面的推展 園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期1960 1970 1980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍"},{"start":403.61,"end":423.985,"text":"所以在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習場域所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫"},{"start":425.606,"end":445.878,"text":"就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分"},{"start":446.798,"end":460.278,"text":"我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上"},{"start":462.697,"end":481.291,"text":"沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長譽有的"},{"start":483.012,"end":500.763,"text":"所以呢 依然有學校有這個心他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部 國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是我們一直談全民原教 全民原教"},{"start":502.199,"end":523.135,"text":"原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校"},{"start":525.592,"end":549.575,"text":"我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣"},{"start":550.296,"end":563.246,"text":"那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的學會我覺得可以用幾句學生數的幾句來協助這個我們的"},{"start":569.03,"end":585.944,"text":"謝謝 謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是"},{"start":587.606,"end":606.168,"text":"確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啊你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事"},{"start":607.972,"end":630.589,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說"},{"start":632.231,"end":653.694,"text":"會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突"},{"start":656.161,"end":684.053,"text":"110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解"},{"start":685.29,"end":709.722,"text":"公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是濫訴"},{"start":711.499,"end":712.902,"text":"他會覺得可能費時費錢"},{"start":715.987,"end":742.165,"text":"那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉"},{"start":744.286,"end":762.714,"text":"像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切"},{"start":764.597,"end":786.8,"text":"所以乾脆通通受理 通通懲案 學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中 他要學校的校事會議 校長 家長的代表行政人員代表 學校教師代表 一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中 他只會評五位 因為每一個都要錢嘛"},{"start":787.641,"end":796.429,"text":"學校還要負擔那個出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人"},{"start":797.714,"end":820.391,"text":"我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴"},{"start":822.012,"end":837.065,"text":"不希望冤枉然後呢 不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師"},{"start":843.719,"end":860.651,"text":"校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到"},{"start":861.371,"end":880.966,"text":"我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長"},{"start":884.662,"end":901.792,"text":"我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪其擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同"},{"start":902.572,"end":920.521,"text":"那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走"},{"start":921.461,"end":941.708,"text":"停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行"},{"start":942.788,"end":960.476,"text":"這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟"},{"start":965.738,"end":985.767,"text":"孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分"},{"start":991.59,"end":994.791,"text":"好 那在這邊就謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢 觀眾請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":686,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時22分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。部長，原住民族教育法有提到要成立原住民族學校，在蔡英文總統2016年上任之後，其實在他的政見裡面就有提到要做原住民族學校。賴清德總統去年520的政見中，也揭露、提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系。他是提到，要以原住民的文化、語言、知識、體系為核心的來推動原住民族學校。可是經歷了這麼長的時間，立法院也曾經提案和排審，但是都不了了之，最主要的原因就是大家對於什麼是原住民族學校？原住民族學校要怎麼做？沒有一個定見和共識。所以我很高興今天看到教育部的解凍書面報告中有提到「規劃臺灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫」，裡面有特別提到國際趨勢、學校型態的運作、課程與教學設計、師資的培育、教材的發展，以及校長培訓等等議題。","我覺得計畫案很重要，這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清，但是我還是要提到，我另外有2個要求，就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了，國小、國中，現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了。我的意思是說，2016年開始補助推動，到明年就屆滿10年，而且辦法裡面是補助實驗學校12年，但是補助幾年這個還不是重點，而是說這些原住民族實驗學校都已經從國小、國中長到高中，它何去何從？它的定位到底在哪裡？所以我希望這個部分部長可以編列經費，這個計畫很重要，也要來做。","再來，這些年實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念、作法，開發出各式各樣的課程、教材和教法，但是有沒有可能也用計畫案來計畫、研究這些課程的模組，到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相來看，哪一種作法有什麼優點？有什麼缺點？應該怎麼做？我認為這一些都應該要比照並做一個整合性的研究計畫，部長你同意嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我完全同意委員的說法。原住民族文化的多樣性和人才的培育，要怎麼樣突顯它的價值？我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力的。剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校的制度，基本上，這是原民會跟國教院的合作，我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的模式。以目前教育部的原住民族實驗學校來說，國中小有48所，確實這些年來，我們對於原住民族的教育、委員也長期關心，像520之後我也有去巴楠花學校看過原住民族學校，在這個學校裡面，確實，他們不僅展現了他們在原住民族文化上的保留、結合現有的課程、永續校園，包含國際教育，都做得非常好。所以我們也一直期待第一所的原住民族實驗學校能夠先在巴楠花裡面成立，這個部分國教署也全力支持，希望能夠朝那個方向讓原住民的教育銜接能夠有更好的發展。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長。所以部長的意思是說，願意支持我剛才所講的，不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計畫案，因為原住民族實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年，它何去何從？這個部分也要成立一個計畫案。再來就是這些年，各個學校所研發的課程、教材和教法，也希望能夠有一個計畫案來做整合及分析，這樣可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我跟委員報告，這是可以的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那就謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：因為我們現在有很多的、我們每年都有在徵原住民的教材。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我希望能有一個整合型的研究計畫案……"],["彭署長富源：我補充一下。委員剛才講的民族學校的部分，現在是原民會的權責，他們現在正跟國教院就學術在合作，這個計畫剛才部長也有表達樂觀其成，我們也會到委員的辦公室做說明。至於教育部的權責，就是48所實驗學校的部分，剛才部長也有特別的講到，像巴楠花這種有成的學校，我們會從旁就這48校過往所進行的實驗情形做一些整理，這個我們也會跟國教院合作，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那就委託國教院，我希望能夠做這些計畫案，好不好？因為院長也在這邊。","第二個部分，我也要跟部長做一個建議。其實我在2016年，就是我離開學校的最後一年，我有跟當時的部長做過建言，我說：因為我們已經在推動民族教育，而且是全面的推展，原民會和教育部都非常給力。可是我們的學習場域，像我們的這些校舍都是早期1960年、1970年、1980年代，這些非常樣版、一致的校舍，但是在推動原民教育很重要的就是文化學習場域，所以我特別希望能夠推動「原住民學校新校園運動」。這是一個中長期的計畫，106年到110年已經結束，110年到114年，也就是到今年，它的名稱叫做：「營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫」，就是將課程教學結合到學校場域，提供各個學校可以來申請經費。但是我今天要講的是，因為過去它補助的對象是原住民重點學校，以及非原住民重點學校原民學生達70人以上的都會學校，但是這個部分，因為這8年來，幾乎所有的學校都有來申請，可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校，像新北市，我們可以看到，其實學校的原民學生如果要達到70人以上，沒有幾個學校符合，就2間、3間，六都幾乎都是如此。可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子，以及非原住民的孩子在學校裡建置這樣的文化學習場域？有的，依然有學校有這個心，所以他們就來跟我們陳情說，教育部國教署能不能夠也提供他們一些經費？我很贊同的原因是，我們一直在談「全民原教」、「全民原教」，原住民族教育法的對象不是只有原住民而已，而是全體國民，所以這樣的一個訴求，我認為非常合理。部長，你覺得如果從115年度開始，新一期的中長程計畫能不能夠納入所有的學校？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的提醒。確實，我完全同意委員所提的，臺灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群，多元文化的美就是因為大家不一樣，然後能夠彼此認識，透過認識、理解與欣賞，然後甚至能夠有一些推廣。原住民學校、如果是在一般的學校裡面、都會區的學校要推廣原住民教育或文化，我想我們會編列相關的經費。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，我覺得可以用級距、學生數。"],["鄭部長英耀：中央和地方看要怎麼樣來協助，這個我們樂於協助。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝部長。最後一個問題就是有關大家都很關心的「校事會議」，部長，你先看一下，前陣子我們幾個委員處理臺東一個學前特幼班的兒虐案，調查報告已經出來了，確有其事，整個也都處置完畢。我只是要請你看一下，這個是法定代理人、也就是家長拿到的調查報告，6頁，你看一下，碼成這個樣子！家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生什麼事？所以這個部分，我想我們也要約束規範一下，我怎麼知道他碼的是不是真的需要碼的？我想這個部分你瞭解一下。","為什麼我要提到這個問題？因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案子時，其實也有人詬病說，這會造成兩種極端，就是真正不適任的教師，就像剛才碼了6張的這個報告得不到真相。也有一些是無辜的，他可能是遭到濫訴，覺得身心俱疲。我們來看一下國小的校安通報，有關師生管教的衝突。110年2,171件，111年成長到2,524件，我要特別的講112年4,120件，我還沒有看到113年的資料數據，但這樣的成長比例實在是很驚人，所以為什麼很多人都關心這件事情。","我們來看一下，為什麼會這樣？當然，我們可以理解公立學校教師被調查的流程，我們都知道，有的是家長陳情就做校方通報；有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴，它有它的流程。現在的重點是到了校事會議的時候，有很多學校都感到很困擾，為什麼會困擾？因為濫訴，它覺得費時、費錢，這個部分我看到教育部有回應，教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘、不續聘、停聘或資遣辦法有明定了，已經有寫了可以不受理事項，例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的，這種是一定要受理的，但是有很多是沒有具體內容；有很多是匿名檢舉，像這種的，當然學校可以不受理，可是，我要跟部長報告的就是，幾乎全部都會成案，因為就像我這種民意代表、地方的議員，他很怕上媒體，然後很怕民代施壓、關切，所以呢？乾脆就統統受理、統統成案，學校不敢負責任。在這當中，學校的校事會議，校長、家長代表、行政人員代表、學校教師代表、一個公正人士，也就是說5位當中、它只會聘5位，因為每一個都要錢嘛！學校還要負擔出席的費用，所以通常都是儘量只聘5個人、3個人，在這當中的4個人，原本我們是期待校事會議是中立的，可是我剛剛講的校長、家長代表、行政人員、學校教師會，本來我們是期待他們中立，但是他們不敢中立，而且他們的關係很緊密。","我講這些只是想說，其實很多、很多在意的只是什麼？它的核心是什麼？就是不希望濫訴、不希望冤枉，然後不希望造成學校很大的行政負擔或是心裡的壓力，我想核心是在這個地方。甚至投訴說老師長太高，不適合當幼兒園的老師，校方也不知道到底要不要成案？或者控訴某個老師不教孩子唱國歌之類的，對學校來講，這到底要成不成案？到底是不是具體的內容？這個很辛苦。所以我在這邊要提出我的訴求：針對目前校事會議的這些投訴，校事會議受理案件的樣態，教育部是不是應該做相關的統計，然後做出處遇指引的手冊？我先請教一下部長，你們有沒有做過相關的統計？署長？"],["彭署長富源：我先簡單的說明一下兩件事：第一個，新的解聘辦法是因應當時不當管教走一條路、霸凌走一條路，現場不堪其擾，走不完，所以把它合併之後，獲得大家的認同。接著是學校內要怎麼讓這件事、其實一個案件到底是走考核？還是走解聘？它本來就已經在做，只是整合在這個解聘辦法內，所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理？以及決定走考核？或是決定走停解聘？這些都在那個辦法內，因此，它前端做案件的整合，不要有多個委員會。在終端，剛才講的處置可以由學校決定，只走考核就好，不用成立調查小組，所以如果整套嚴謹的執行，那是可以解決以往的不利。","至於你剛剛提到的現行辦法，這個辦法去年4月19日運作至今已經超過1年，部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視，這個目前已經在整理中，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那很好，我就是希望不要造成校方的困擾。這個辦法已經走了1年，要有相關的統計樣態分類、處遇的指引原則，畢竟最重要的是孩子，有快樂的老師，才有快樂的孩子！老師是學校最重要的資產，都是要來服務我們的孩子，所以我希望能夠重視濫訴的狀態，看要怎麼樣改善，這個才是我們最關切的部分，在這邊就謝謝部長、署長和主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員的質詢。官員請回座。","接下來有請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}