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\"的\", \"start\": 300.472, \"end\": 300.552, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 300.552, \"end\": 300.732, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 300.732, \"end\": 300.932, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 300.932, \"end\": 300.952, \"score\": 0.688}]}, {\"start\": 301.613, \"end\": 329.038, \"text\": \"可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 301.613, \"end\": 301.693, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 301.693, \"end\": 301.813, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 301.813, \"end\": 301.953, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 301.953, \"end\": 302.153, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 302.153, \"end\": 302.453, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 302.453, \"end\": 302.873, \"score\": 0.933}, 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{\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 566.995, \"end\": 567.015, \"score\": 0.039}]}, {\"start\": 568.195, \"end\": 590.577, \"text\": \"當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 568.195, \"end\": 568.436, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 568.436, \"end\": 568.636, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 568.636, \"end\": 569.036, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 569.036, \"end\": 569.156, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 569.156, \"end\": 570.057, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 570.057, \"end\": 570.277, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 570.277, \"end\": 572.119, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, 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\"start\": 654.608, \"end\": 654.729, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 654.729, \"end\": 654.789, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 654.789, \"end\": 655.029, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 655.029, \"end\": 655.189, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 655.189, \"end\": 655.469, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 655.469, \"end\": 655.669, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 655.669, \"end\": 656.309, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 656.309, \"end\": 656.55, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 656.55, \"end\": 656.57, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,523 --> 00:00:12,875\n好謝謝主席各位長官各位委員大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好秦秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:17,237 --> 00:00:45,979\n張委員早秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把這個地方的一般性補助款給刪減了這地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通山決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該\n\n3\n00:00:47,140 --> 00:01:00,488\n在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方\n\n4\n00:01:06,502 --> 00:01:33,931\n那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重\n\n5\n00:01:34,511 --> 00:02:03,332\n中央這次減少27.3百分比的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景銷的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教祕書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別民視要排除法律義務支出了那請教祕書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出\n\n6\n00:02:04,902 --> 00:02:27,616\n報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得對這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商可是當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下\n\n7\n00:02:30,598 --> 00:02:47,608\n這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在\n\n8\n00:02:56,978 --> 00:03:15,502\n這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元為例依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的\n\n9\n00:03:23,084 --> 00:03:27,571\n那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法定義務支出來請回答\n\n10\n00:03:29,564 --> 00:03:52,915\n跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出\n\n11\n00:03:53,775 --> 00:04:21,297\n可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對它已經預算書上有寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來請你回答法律有規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大學編列的數額已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答\n\n12\n00:04:22,284 --> 00:04:36,888\n他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長\n\n13\n00:04:40,790 --> 00:05:00,952\n這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分\n\n14\n00:05:01,613 --> 00:05:29,038\n可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答\n\n15\n00:05:30,925 --> 00:05:58,755\n法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出...否決你也照當時你來政黨協商的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法...那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算\n\n16\n00:06:00,350 --> 00:06:23,863\n還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款你有沒有想說要最佳預算過秘書長有嗎你當時來不就是想要你當時來市長協商的時候不是想要討論說最佳預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變的就算最佳預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要最佳預算是嗎\n\n17\n00:06:26,073 --> 00:06:27,815\n這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來\n\n18\n00:06:31,768 --> 00:07:00,471\n好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長\n\n19\n00:07:01,372 --> 00:07:27,098\n現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我們需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來請回答總共有四件\n\n20\n00:07:27,978 --> 00:07:35,307\n那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛好,謝謝跟委員報告,剛剛講到消防處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了\n\n21\n00:07:48,542 --> 00:07:55,406\n然後有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件霸凌不成立案子,現在再提到保訊會的再申訴。您的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的。不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了。已經確定了,那資料?\n\n22\n00:08:12,523 --> 00:08:27,736\n好我們事後再提供給委員好謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.91的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了\n\n23\n00:08:33,641 --> 00:09:01,366\n然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底\n\n24\n00:09:01,886 --> 00:09:27,015\n可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說競速審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將競速完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊我看見有沒有這個表\n\n25\n00:09:28,195 --> 00:09:50,577\n當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況\n\n26\n00:09:51,158 --> 00:10:14,230\n那你要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見\n\n27\n00:10:15,131 --> 00:10:40,160\n我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸你的章關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要不要拜託地書長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊\n\n28\n00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:56,570\n我今天先不把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去既然都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7523\t12875\t好 謝謝主席各位長官 各位委員大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好 秦秘書長\n17237\t45979\t張委員早 秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把這個地方的一般性補助款給刪減了這地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通山決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該\n47140\t60488\t在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方\n66502\t93931\t那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重\n94511\t123332\t中央這次減少27.3百分比的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景銷的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教祕書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別民視要排除法律義務支出了那請教祕書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出\n124902\t147616\t報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得對這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商可是當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下\n150598\t167608\t這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在\n176978\t195502\t這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元為例依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的\n203084\t207571\t那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法定義務支出來請回答\n209564\t232915\t跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出\n233775\t261297\t可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對 它已經預算書上有寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來 請你回答法律有規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大學編列的數額已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答\n262284\t276888\t他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長\n280790\t300952\t這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分\n301613\t329038\t可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答\n330925\t358755\t法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出...否決你也照當時你來政黨協商的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法...那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算\n360350\t383863\t還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款你有沒有想說要最佳預算過 秘書長有嗎你當時來不就是想要你當時來市長協商的時候不是想要討論說最佳預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變的就算最佳預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要最佳預算 是嗎\n386073\t387815\t這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來\n391768\t420471\t好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長\n421372\t447098\t現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我們需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來請回答總共有四件\n447978\t455307\t那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛好,謝謝跟委員報告,剛剛講到消防處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了\n468542\t475406\t然後有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件霸凌不成立案子,現在再提到保訊會的再申訴。您的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的。不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了。已經確定了,那資料?\n492523\t507736\t好 我們事後再提供給委員好 謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.91的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了\n513641\t541366\t然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底\n541886\t567015\t可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說競速審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將競速完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊我看見有沒有這個表\n568195\t590577\t當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況\n591158\t614230\t那你要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見\n615131\t640160\t我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸 你的章 關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容 一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要不要拜託地書長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊\n640900\t656570\t我今天先不把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去既然都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席各位長官 各位委員大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好 秦秘書長\n張委員早 秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把這個地方的一般性補助款給刪減了這地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通山決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該\n在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方\n那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重\n中央這次減少27.3百分比的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景銷的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教祕書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別民視要排除法律義務支出了那請教祕書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出\n報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得對這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商可是當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下\n這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在\n這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元為例依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的\n那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法定義務支出來請回答\n跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出\n可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對 它已經預算書上有寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來 請你回答法律有規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大學編列的數額已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答\n他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長\n這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分\n可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答\n法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出...否決你也照當時你來政黨協商的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法...那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算\n還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款你有沒有想說要最佳預算過 秘書長有嗎你當時來不就是想要你當時來市長協商的時候不是想要討論說最佳預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變的就算最佳預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要最佳預算 是嗎\n這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來\n好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長\n現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我們需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來請回答總共有四件\n那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛好,謝謝跟委員報告,剛剛講到消防處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了\n然後有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件霸凌不成立案子,現在再提到保訊會的再申訴。您的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的。不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了。已經確定了,那資料?\n好 我們事後再提供給委員好 謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.91的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了\n然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底\n可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說競速審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將競速完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊我看見有沒有這個表\n當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況\n那你要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見\n我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸 你的章 關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容 一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要不要拜託地書長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊\n我今天先不把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去既然都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.523 --> 00:12.875\n好謝謝主席各位長官各位委員大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好秦秘書長\n\n00:17.237 --> 00:45.979\n張委員早秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把這個地方的一般性補助款給刪減了這地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通山決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該\n\n00:47.140 --> 01:00.488\n在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方\n\n01:06.502 --> 01:33.931\n那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重\n\n01:34.511 --> 02:03.332\n中央這次減少27.3百分比的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景銷的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教祕書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別民視要排除法律義務支出了那請教祕書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出\n\n02:04.902 --> 02:27.616\n報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得對這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商可是當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下\n\n02:30.598 --> 02:47.608\n這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在\n\n02:56.978 --> 03:15.502\n這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元為例依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的\n\n03:23.084 --> 03:27.571\n那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法定義務支出來請回答\n\n03:29.564 --> 03:52.915\n跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出\n\n03:53.775 --> 04:21.297\n可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對它已經預算書上有寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來請你回答法律有規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大學編列的數額已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答\n\n04:22.284 --> 04:36.888\n他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長\n\n04:40.790 --> 05:00.952\n這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分\n\n05:01.613 --> 05:29.038\n可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答\n\n05:30.925 --> 05:58.755\n法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出...否決你也照當時你來政黨協商的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法...那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算\n\n06:00.350 --> 06:23.863\n還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款你有沒有想說要最佳預算過秘書長有嗎你當時來不就是想要你當時來市長協商的時候不是想要討論說最佳預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變的就算最佳預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要最佳預算是嗎\n\n06:26.073 --> 06:27.815\n這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來\n\n06:31.768 --> 07:00.471\n好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長\n\n07:01.372 --> 07:27.098\n現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我們需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來請回答總共有四件\n\n07:27.978 --> 07:35.307\n那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛好,謝謝跟委員報告,剛剛講到消防處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了\n\n07:48.542 --> 07:55.406\n然後有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件霸凌不成立案子,現在再提到保訊會的再申訴。您的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的。不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了。已經確定了,那資料?\n\n08:12.523 --> 08:27.736\n好我們事後再提供給委員好謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.91的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了\n\n08:33.641 --> 09:01.366\n然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底\n\n09:01.886 --> 09:27.015\n可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說競速審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將競速完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊我看見有沒有這個表\n\n09:28.195 --> 09:50.577\n當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況\n\n09:51.158 --> 10:14.230\n那你要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見\n\n10:15.131 --> 10:40.160\n我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸你的章關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要不要拜託地書長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊\n\n10:40.900 --> 10:56.570\n我今天先不把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去既然都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.523,"end":12.875,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位長官 各位委員大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好 秦秘書長"},{"start":17.237,"end":45.979,"text":"張委員早 秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把這個地方的一般性補助款給刪減了這地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通山決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該"},{"start":47.14,"end":60.488,"text":"在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方"},{"start":66.502,"end":93.931,"text":"那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重"},{"start":94.511,"end":123.332,"text":"中央這次減少27.3百分比的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景銷的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教祕書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別民視要排除法律義務支出了那請教祕書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出"},{"start":124.902,"end":147.616,"text":"報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得對這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商可是當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下"},{"start":150.598,"end":167.608,"text":"這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在"},{"start":176.978,"end":195.502,"text":"這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元為例依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的"},{"start":203.084,"end":207.571,"text":"那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法定義務支出來請回答"},{"start":209.564,"end":232.915,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出"},{"start":233.775,"end":261.297,"text":"可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對 它已經預算書上有寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來 請你回答法律有規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大學編列的數額已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答"},{"start":262.284,"end":276.888,"text":"他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長"},{"start":280.79,"end":300.952,"text":"這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分"},{"start":301.613,"end":329.038,"text":"可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要來請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答"},{"start":330.925,"end":358.755,"text":"法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出...否決你也照當時你來政黨協商的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法...那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算"},{"start":360.35,"end":383.863,"text":"還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款你有沒有想說要最佳預算過 秘書長有嗎你當時來不就是想要你當時來市長協商的時候不是想要討論說最佳預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變的就算最佳預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要最佳預算 是嗎"},{"start":386.073,"end":387.815,"text":"這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來"},{"start":391.768,"end":420.471,"text":"好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長"},{"start":421.372,"end":447.098,"text":"現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我們需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來請回答總共有四件"},{"start":447.978,"end":455.307,"text":"那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛好,謝謝跟委員報告,剛剛講到消防處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了"},{"start":468.542,"end":475.406,"text":"然後有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件霸凌不成立案子,現在再提到保訊會的再申訴。您的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的。不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了。已經確定了,那資料?"},{"start":492.523,"end":507.736,"text":"好 我們事後再提供給委員好 謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.91的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了"},{"start":513.641,"end":541.366,"text":"然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底"},{"start":541.886,"end":567.015,"text":"可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說競速審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將競速完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊我看見有沒有這個表"},{"start":568.195,"end":590.577,"text":"當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況"},{"start":591.158,"end":614.23,"text":"那你要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見"},{"start":615.131,"end":640.16,"text":"我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸 你的章 關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容 一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要不要拜託地書長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊"},{"start":640.9,"end":656.57,"text":"我今天先不把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去既然都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":230,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時32分）謝謝主席。各位長官、各位委員，大家早。有請龔明鑫秘書長。"],["主席：請秘書長。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：張委員早。"],["張委員智倫：秘書長早。首先要請教秘書長，現在不管朝野委員或地方首長，都非常重視行政院把地方一般性補助款刪減的這件事，這是地方的救命錢，所以還是要跟秘書長報告，立法院在114年度通刪決議案裡提到，各項目的刪除，都特別明示要排除法律義務支出，所以一般性補助款不應該是在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面。而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市的一般補助款科目扣減將近27.3%用來彌補差額，讓本席非常遺憾，因為這是要苦地方，這次刪減的衝擊，包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助及基本建設補助，亦即兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者等的福利都會受到影響，尤其大家非常關心的行人安全、人行道路改善以及維護，未來可能也都會受到影響。","我必須跟秘書長講，新北市有四百多萬人，是全臺灣最多人的地方，行政跟建設支出負擔沉重，中央這次減少27.3%的一般性補助款，新北市少了30億，變成今年的預算比去年還少，影響到教育、社福跟警消的建設預算，致使地方政府沒有辦法落實照顧民眾的責任。當時通刪時明明就已經特別明示要排除法律義務支出，請教秘書長，您認為一般補助款是不是法律義務支出？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：報告委員，我的想法跟你一樣，也覺得這件事情非常遺憾，但是當中央總預算三讀通過時，事實上，行政院第一時間就表達了……"],["張委員智倫：有，你有來協商啊！你有來協商，可是……"],["龔秘書長明鑫：要我們自已刪636億……"],["張委員智倫：當時有人請你趕快回去啊！"],["龔秘書長明鑫：不是，就是要我們自行刪減636億，在額度這麼大的情況之下，這是過去從來沒有的，而且窒礙難行……"],["張委員智倫：是不是請秘書長就法律面回應立法院？你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：據我了解，它不是法律義務支出。"],["張委員智倫：不是法律義務支出？好，那我請主計總處的代表。"],["主席：請主計總處。"],["張委員智倫：113年12月30號時，我曾詢問過主計長，那時候主計長說114年中央政府總預算歲出編列3兆1,325億元，其中依法律義務項目，包含各機關人事費、社會保險跟退撫支出一兆八千多億元，占58%，均無法刪減。這是當時主計長提出來的，就你而言，你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出？來，請回答。"],["吳專門委員銘修：跟委員報告，當初講的依法律義務，其實是我們在審預算的過程當中……"],["張委員智倫：先回應，你覺得是不是？"],["吳專門委員銘修：在地制法和財劃法裡面有規定，中央對財力較差的地方政府要酌予補助，所以法律雖然有規定要補助……"],["張委員智倫：它是不是法律義務支出？"],["吳專門委員銘修：可是這個補助沒有補助標準跟數額……"],["張委員智倫：對，但預算書上已經寫要補助多少錢，地方政府也花了，請問這是不是法律義務支出？來，請你回答。"],["吳專門委員銘修：法律有規定要酌予補助，可是沒有規定編列的數額要多少，所以在大院審查的預算還是有刪減的空間。"],["張委員智倫：編列的數額預算書上都已經有寫了啊！現在是已經要刪除這些預算，我只請教你，一般補助款是不是法律義務支出？可不可以回答？"],["吳專門委員銘修：審查預算的過程中，為了審查預算，我們有分四大類，而它是歸類到依法律義務支出的一個地方。"],["張委員智倫：好，所以你有回答是法律義務支出，是不是？"],["吳專門委員銘修：對，是在審查預算的過程當中。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝、謝謝。秘書長，可能還是要跟你報告一下，這就是法律義務支出，依法不能刪減，所以請行政院好好想一想是不是應該要做這樣的事。","另外，有關這個議題，我再請教一下，卓榮泰院長說地方政府可以用歲計賸餘來補刪除的部分，可是很多地方首長回應，以新北市為例，現在並沒有歲計賸餘，而是還背負著非常多的累計虧損，所以這個方法不可用。現在很多地方首長，其實是全臺灣的地方首長，都非常不能接受這樣的作法，有些首長表示將提出訴願，後續向中央追償這樣的費用，秘書長對此有什麼看法？你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬嗎？來，請回答。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：報告委員，我剛才提到的是，當這個三讀通過時，我們覺得窒礙難行而提出覆議，然後被否決，現在提出釋憲……"],["張委員智倫：否決？你也知道當時你來政黨協商的時候，是誰否決你啊！好，請繼續。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我們按照立法院決議，自行調整這636億，我們在窒礙難行的情況下，現在的方法幾乎是唯一的方法……"],["張委員智倫：窒礙難行，那當時你內心的想法，有沒有考慮要追加預算？還是你就是想要刪地方補助款？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我們已經提出覆議跟釋憲相關的救濟方法……"],["張委員智倫：你有沒有想過追加預算？秘書長，有嗎？當時你來政黨協商的時候，不就是想要討論追加預算嗎？為什麼現在決定刪地方補助款？你的心境是怎麼轉變的？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：就算追加預算，也要行政院跟立法院有相互溝通好……"],["張委員智倫：所以行政院當時是想要追加預算，是嗎？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：這個我已經沒有、沒有那樣的記憶……"],["張委員智倫：忘記了？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：對……"],["張委員智倫：忘記了，還是害怕想起來？好，謝謝秘書長，我知道了，我們希望行政院還是要有一些更好的解決方式。","第二個，我想請教行政院過去的相關霸凌案。去年不管勞動部或行政院都有霸凌案，我記得當時行政院有三大霸凌案，包含消保處、公關處及秘書處。秘書處當時有來跟我解釋，所以我相信現在沒有在調查中，而公關處的部分，處長因為身體不適調離職位，現在我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分，現在調查情況如何？從年初到現在已經5個月了，我們沒有看到任何結果，我們希望霸凌是零容忍的，所以請簡單說明，為什麼這些霸凌案到現在都沒有相關調查結果？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：有的，總共有4件，其中1件成立，其他3件沒有成立。"],["張委員智倫：沒錯，就3件霸凌案。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：詳細的狀況，我請人事處處長說明。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["黃處長麗玲：跟委員報告，剛剛講到消保處跟公關處的部分，我們從去年到今年一共只有4件霸凌案，其實全部都已經處理完畢，有3件案子沒有提出申訴，只有1件霸凌不成立的案子現在提到保訓會的再申訴……"],["張委員智倫：你的意思是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴，3件有成立的……"],["黃處長麗玲：不是，我們全部調查完畢，也提到審議委員會，已經確定了。"],["張委員智倫：已經確定了？"],["黃處長麗玲：是。"],["張委員智倫：那資料……"],["黃處長麗玲：好，事後再把資料提供給委員。"],["張委員智倫：好，麻煩，謝謝。","最後還有一個問題要請秘書長回答，這是有關地方建設的。中和有一個國道三號中和交流道改善工程，你知道這件事嗎？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我知道。"],["張委員智倫：這是14.9億的計畫，去年113年4月3號可行性評估報告就已經出爐了，也核准了，然後高公局在7月31號時把建設計畫送到交通部，交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查，國發會在113年1月5號也送審查意見給行政院，結果本席在12月10號發函詢問行政院什麼時候可以核定，因為我在質詢時曾拜託過院長，不管是陳建仁院長還是卓榮泰院長，尤其是卓榮泰院長，他回應說12月底可以儘速核定。可是本席12月10號的發文只得到一張公文，表示「將儘速完成審定」；今年5月19日我再次發文，回了我內容一模一樣、一字未改的文，也說「將儘速完成審定」。我要跟秘書長說的是，說到的話要算數，希望行政院可以加速整個期程，當時也有個表提出來，明列這個工程規劃當時預計要完成的時間是在今年的上半年，大概是4月左右，現在是5月，已經延期了。所以我希望行政院秘書長不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文，沒有任何的內容，然後企圖對地方的建設好像有所阻擋，我覺得這是非常不好的狀況。也要跟秘書長再快速地報告一下，其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的，尤其是現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了，會讓整個……尤其是建築師設計規劃的時間會縮短，這對地方的建設非常不利，這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極處理是違背的，是不是請秘書長回答？是不是現在行政院……這是什麼樣的原因？我想先聽聽看你的意見。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我想我們會按照回復的文裡面儘速來辦理。"],["張委員智倫：兩次都回復一模一樣的內容，這都是您的章、您的官印耶！您有看到這個內容嗎？可以半年、4個月回一樣的內容，一個字都沒有改。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我們儘速來辦理，謝謝。"],["張委員智倫：要拜託秘書長儘速辦理，因為我這邊有收到舉報，說有人故意在擋地方建設的東西……"],["龔秘書長明鑫：應該是沒有。"],["張委員智倫：我今天先不把人名給透露出來，希望秘書長回去……既然都是已經承諾的事情，而且這個設計款大概才二千多萬，是一個……不要去擋地方的建設。我們當然是希望地方建設不分政黨，大家一起來努力，好不好？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：好。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：謝謝。"],["主席：我們請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-22","speakers":["張宏陸","麥玉珍","李柏毅","高金素梅","黃捷","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張智倫","丁學忠","許宇甄","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","翁曉玲","張啓楷","張雅琳","王鴻薇"],"page_start":91,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1145401_00003"}}}