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00:00:54,995\n也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小處的部分是不是都是外部委員\n\n4\n00:00:57,134 --> 00:01:11,716\n跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在\n\n5\n00:01:12,837 --> 00:01:22,985\n性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法32、33條第一個32條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人\n\n6\n00:01:31,152 --> 00:01:45,228\n他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個\n\n7\n00:01:46,750 --> 00:01:50,873\n職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長\n\n8\n00:02:04,022 --> 00:02:07,844\n來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾\n\n9\n00:02:25,290 --> 00:02:50,409\n我想確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的這個我是可以承諾的好我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待\n\n10\n00:02:52,390 --> 00:03:13,110\n接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題\n\n11\n00:03:15,513 --> 00:03:27,898\n裡面監察院調查的時候經由訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說\n\n12\n00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:39,783\n這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了\n\n13\n00:03:55,874 --> 00:04:05,780\n宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性平安間是這樣喔\n\n14\n00:04:20,236 --> 00:04:24,498\n假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失\n\n15\n00:04:43,387 --> 00:04:53,297\n非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置\n\n16\n00:05:03,157 --> 00:05:15,566\n也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討\n\n17\n00:05:33,666 --> 00:05:55,453\n同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係\n\n18\n00:05:57,810 --> 00:06:15,274\n這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了\n\n19\n00:06:18,072 --> 00:06:29,922\n所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚國會部長\n\n20\n00:06:34,648 --> 00:06:58,860\n可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任\n\n21\n00:07:04,689 --> 00:07:15,499\n誰去要求輔導員三次叫他去關切學生誰一定要調查清楚好不好好這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件\n\n22\n00:07:27,062 --> 00:07:49,779\n以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法\n\n23\n00:07:51,411 --> 00:08:17,752\n的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這案來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條\n\n24\n00:08:19,517 --> 00:08:38,292\n就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施\n\n25\n00:08:43,677 --> 00:09:02,347\n高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟委員報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來\n\n26\n00:09:02,967 --> 00:09:21,684\n5月24號就是前幾天前幾天對學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組這個也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好非常好這一個案件發生的時間是什麼時候\n\n27\n00:09:24,724 --> 00:09:45,539\n跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起\n\n28\n00:09:48,214 --> 00:10:12,842\n護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到\n\n29\n00:10:14,562 --> 00:10:40,822\n所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點\n\n30\n00:10:42,335 --> 00:11:00,947\n比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我\n\n31\n00:11:01,727 --> 00:11:28,216\n抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了\n\n32\n00:11:29,116 --> 00:11:55,943\n但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年一月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我認為最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告\n\n33\n00:11:59,617 --> 00:12:12,180\n有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好請務必確定我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向\n\n34\n00:12:23,902 --> 00:12:38,028\n我們修法是為了保護孩子保護家長所以拜託我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻擾的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實好不好好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n191\t211\t被質詢 謝謝\n6502\t12026\t委員好部長好首先要請教我們葉秉成次長因為性評的疑慮現在是送交教育部的性評會要來進行調查那我今天要請教的是因為外界也很關心我們看一下現在教育部性評會的成員名單首先性評會的主委就是我們部長就是部長您再來我們次長\n31499\t54995\t也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小處的部分是不是都是外部委員\n57134\t71716\t跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在\n72837\t82985\t性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法32、33條第一個32條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人\n91152\t105228\t他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個\n106750\t110873\t職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長\n124022\t127844\t來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾\n145290\t170409\t我想 確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的 這個我是可以承諾的好 我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待\n172390\t193110\t接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題\n195513\t207898\t裡面監察院調查的時候經由訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說\n213000\t219783\t這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了\n235874\t245780\t宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性平安間是這樣喔\n260236\t264498\t假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長 你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失\n283387\t293297\t非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園 這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置\n303157\t315566\t也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討\n333666\t355453\t同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係\n357810\t375274\t這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了\n378072\t389922\t所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失 行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長 那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚 國會部長\n394648\t418860\t可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任\n424689\t435499\t誰去要求輔導員 三次叫他去關切學生 誰一定要調查清楚 好不好好 這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件\n447062\t469779\t以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法\n471411\t497752\t的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這案來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條\n499517\t518292\t就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施\n523677\t542347\t高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟委員報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來\n542967\t561684\t5月24號就是前幾天前幾天 對學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組這個也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好 非常好這一個案件發生的時間是什麼時候\n564724\t585539\t跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起\n588214\t612842\t護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到\n614562\t640822\t所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點\n642335\t660947\t比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我\n661727\t688216\t抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了\n689116\t715943\t但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年一月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我認為最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告\n719617\t732180\t有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好 請務必確定我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向\n743902\t758028\t我們修法是為了保護孩子 保護家長所以拜託 我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻擾的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"被質詢 謝謝\n委員好部長好首先要請教我們葉秉成次長因為性評的疑慮現在是送交教育部的性評會要來進行調查那我今天要請教的是因為外界也很關心我們看一下現在教育部性評會的成員名單首先性評會的主委就是我們部長就是部長您再來我們次長\n也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小處的部分是不是都是外部委員\n跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在\n性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法32、33條第一個32條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人\n他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個\n職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長\n來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾\n我想 確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的 這個我是可以承諾的好 我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待\n接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題\n裡面監察院調查的時候經由訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說\n這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了\n宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性平安間是這樣喔\n假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長 你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失\n非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園 這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置\n也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討\n同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係\n這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了\n所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失 行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長 那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚 國會部長\n可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任\n誰去要求輔導員 三次叫他去關切學生 誰一定要調查清楚 好不好好 這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件\n以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法\n的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這案來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條\n就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施\n高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟委員報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來\n5月24號就是前幾天前幾天 對學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組這個也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好 非常好這一個案件發生的時間是什麼時候\n跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起\n護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到\n所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點\n比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我\n抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了\n但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年一月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我認為最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告\n有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好 請務必確定我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向\n我們修法是為了保護孩子 保護家長所以拜託 我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻擾的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.191 --> 00:00.211\n被質詢謝謝\n\n00:06.502 --> 00:12.026\n委員好部長好首先要請教我們葉秉成次長因為性評的疑慮現在是送交教育部的性評會要來進行調查那我今天要請教的是因為外界也很關心我們看一下現在教育部性評會的成員名單首先性評會的主委就是我們部長就是部長您再來我們次長\n\n00:31.499 --> 00:54.995\n也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小處的部分是不是都是外部委員\n\n00:57.134 --> 01:11.716\n跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在\n\n01:12.837 --> 01:22.985\n性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法32、33條第一個32條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人\n\n01:31.152 --> 01:45.228\n他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個\n\n01:46.750 --> 01:50.873\n職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長\n\n02:04.022 --> 02:07.844\n來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾\n\n02:25.290 --> 02:50.409\n我想確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的這個我是可以承諾的好我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待\n\n02:52.390 --> 03:13.110\n接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題\n\n03:15.513 --> 03:27.898\n裡面監察院調查的時候經由訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說\n\n03:33.000 --> 03:39.783\n這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了\n\n03:55.874 --> 04:05.780\n宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性平安間是這樣喔\n\n04:20.236 --> 04:24.498\n假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失\n\n04:43.387 --> 04:53.297\n非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置\n\n05:03.157 --> 05:15.566\n也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討\n\n05:33.666 --> 05:55.453\n同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係\n\n05:57.810 --> 06:15.274\n這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了\n\n06:18.072 --> 06:29.922\n所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚國會部長\n\n06:34.648 --> 06:58.860\n可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任\n\n07:04.689 --> 07:15.499\n誰去要求輔導員三次叫他去關切學生誰一定要調查清楚好不好好這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件\n\n07:27.062 --> 07:49.779\n以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法\n\n07:51.411 --> 08:17.752\n的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這案來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條\n\n08:19.517 --> 08:38.292\n就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施\n\n08:43.677 --> 09:02.347\n高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟委員報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來\n\n09:02.967 --> 09:21.684\n5月24號就是前幾天前幾天對學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組這個也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好非常好這一個案件發生的時間是什麼時候\n\n09:24.724 --> 09:45.539\n跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起\n\n09:48.214 --> 10:12.842\n護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到\n\n10:14.562 --> 10:40.822\n所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點\n\n10:42.335 --> 11:00.947\n比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我\n\n11:01.727 --> 11:28.216\n抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了\n\n11:29.116 --> 11:55.943\n但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年一月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我認為最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告\n\n11:59.617 --> 12:12.180\n有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好請務必確定我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向\n\n12:23.902 --> 12:38.028\n我們修法是為了保護孩子保護家長所以拜託我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻擾的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實好不好好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.191,"end":0.211,"text":"被質詢 謝謝"},{"start":6.502,"end":12.026,"text":"委員好部長好首先要請教我們葉秉成次長因為性評的疑慮現在是送交教育部的性評會要來進行調查那我今天要請教的是因為外界也很關心我們看一下現在教育部性評會的成員名單首先性評會的主委就是我們部長就是部長您再來我們次長"},{"start":31.499,"end":54.995,"text":"也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小處的部分是不是都是外部委員"},{"start":57.134,"end":71.716,"text":"跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在"},{"start":72.837,"end":82.985,"text":"性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法32、33條第一個32條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人"},{"start":91.152,"end":105.228,"text":"他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個"},{"start":106.75,"end":110.873,"text":"職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長"},{"start":124.022,"end":127.844,"text":"來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾"},{"start":145.29,"end":170.409,"text":"我想 確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的 這個我是可以承諾的好 我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待"},{"start":172.39,"end":193.11,"text":"接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題"},{"start":195.513,"end":207.898,"text":"裡面監察院調查的時候經由訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說"},{"start":213,"end":219.783,"text":"這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了"},{"start":235.874,"end":245.78,"text":"宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性平安間是這樣喔"},{"start":260.236,"end":264.498,"text":"假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長 你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失"},{"start":283.387,"end":293.297,"text":"非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園 這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置"},{"start":303.157,"end":315.566,"text":"也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討"},{"start":333.666,"end":355.453,"text":"同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係"},{"start":357.81,"end":375.274,"text":"這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了"},{"start":378.072,"end":389.922,"text":"所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失 行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長 那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚 國會部長"},{"start":394.648,"end":418.86,"text":"可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任"},{"start":424.689,"end":435.499,"text":"誰去要求輔導員 三次叫他去關切學生 誰一定要調查清楚 好不好好 這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件"},{"start":447.062,"end":469.779,"text":"以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法"},{"start":471.411,"end":497.752,"text":"的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這案來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條"},{"start":499.517,"end":518.292,"text":"就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施"},{"start":523.677,"end":542.347,"text":"高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟委員報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來"},{"start":542.967,"end":561.684,"text":"5月24號就是前幾天前幾天 對學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組這個也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好 非常好這一個案件發生的時間是什麼時候"},{"start":564.724,"end":585.539,"text":"跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起"},{"start":588.214,"end":612.842,"text":"護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到"},{"start":614.562,"end":640.822,"text":"所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點"},{"start":642.335,"end":660.947,"text":"比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我"},{"start":661.727,"end":688.216,"text":"抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了"},{"start":689.116,"end":715.943,"text":"但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年一月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我認為最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告"},{"start":719.617,"end":732.18,"text":"有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好 請務必確定我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向"},{"start":743.902,"end":758.028,"text":"我們修法是為了保護孩子 保護家長所以拜託 我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻擾的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":782,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（12時2分）謝謝主席，我請教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：有請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：部長好。葉丙成次長現在因為性平疑慮送交教育部性平會進行調查，所以我今天要來請教，畢竟外界也很關心。我們看一下現在教育部性平會的成員名單，首先性平會的主委就是部長您，再來，次長也是性平會委員，還包括署長以及兩位司長，一共有5位教育部內部人員都是性平會成員，而其中的主委就是部長，所以外界會關切送到教育部性平會調查是不是就代表中立跟客觀呢？目前教育部性平會在調查小組部分是否都為外部委員？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，是的。"],["吳委員沛憶：調查小組有外部委員？"],["鄭部長英耀：3位都是外部。"],["吳委員沛憶：但是針對調查小組的結果還是要開性平會。所以我現在要求教育部依據……其實也是教育部網站上的資料，對於在性平調查程序上什麼叫做重大瑕疵，教育部有給各界一個說明，其中包括依照行政程序法第三十二條、第三十三條規定。第一，第三十二條講的是如果在調查程序中，當事人應該迴避，而我認為在本案中，其實教育部就是當事人，所以包含部長、次長、司長都應該迴避。第二，依照行政程序法第三十三條，公務員職務執行有偏頗之虞者──也就是有這樣疑慮的人，也可以申請迴避。部長，依我來看，因為成員裡面有兩位司長，學特司甚至是葉次長督導的，你要司長調查……即便他沒參與調查，但最後可能處置次長，這點有違職場上正常的經驗法則。所以我認為在性平會裡面，包含教育部部長、次長、署長、兩位司長，五位成員都應該迴避。部長可不可以承諾？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實，在利害關係人的部分，他是應該要迴避的，這個我可以承諾。"],["吳委員沛憶：好。本席覺得我們一定要以最高的標準，甚至是優於法規的最高標準進行接下來的性平調查，這樣才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任。因為你們是中華民國臺灣教育的最高主管機關，一定要用最嚴謹的態度看待。接下來是有關臺大的案件，還有一個部分本席必須和部長討論。","因為在監察院的報告當中，其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份。監察院的報告去年7月份就出來了，在裡面的第4頁，本席認為有一個非常大的問題。監察院調查的時候，經由訪談指出這位當事學生多次告訴學校的心理師「拜託，不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員」，結果心理師卻和當事學生說「輔導員是離你靠近且安全的角色」，言下之意是說，你就去找輔導員，沒有問題。","再來，他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外，監察院的調查報告還說，臺大有一個工作人員B員，他是誰？我們不知道，但是他三次聯繫宿舍輔導員，也就是可能的加害人。聯繫他做什麼呢？要這個宿舍輔導員多關心當事學生，這是請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人，就像請狼師去關心被害學生，如果是其他師生的性平案件，就是這樣的情形！而且當時還在調查當中，假設他是狼，這就是引狼入室啊！","部長，你看到這文字有沒有覺得非常奇怪？真的非常不恰當！這是發生在臺大校園的事情，本席甚至認為不歸性平會處理，因為這是非常重大的行政疏失。這是監察院的報告，不是性平會的報告，監察院的報告去年7月就告訴我們，臺大校園有這樣的情況，結果呢？到現在教育部還沒有去詢問臺大為什麼做這樣的處置。也有可能是當時的心理師覺得性平案件要保密嘛！或是他們沒有收到相關資訊，也許是因為這樣造成不當處置，但這確實是不當。","誠如部長今天受訪時說的，我們要檢討，而且要避免同樣的情事再次發生，對吧？但是依本席來看，臺大這個處置是這麼大的疏失，可是到今天都沒有被檢討，那麼同樣的事情絕對還會再發生。你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切受害人？而且這個臺大的工作人員B員是什麼職務？他是不是長官？所謂的希望他多關心被害學生，當中有沒有權力關係？這一定要去調查清楚。","所以部長，現在案件送性平會了，就是要重新檢視臺大的程序，但是監察院公開在網路上的已知報告當中，這是全國國人都可以看到的，根據這一段描述，本席認為已經很明確，處置的確不當，所以一定要要求臺大。如果有行政疏失、行政不當，可是教育部卻沒有要求臺大檢討的話，部長，那就是教育部督導不周、就是教育部的督導疏失。我們一定要去把事情調查清楚，可不可以？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：可以的，謝謝委員。臺大這樣的處理，在行政上確實有許多地方我們應該做更進一步的調查，了解可能造成的傷害。"],["吳委員沛憶：部長，我們要再積極一點，因為教育部是最高主管機關。本席剛剛說的這一份報告，去年7月就在網路上公開，但是至今臺大沒有被檢討有無行政責任！性平會是性平會，但學校有行政責任，誰去要求輔導員？還三次叫他去關切學生，是誰？你們一定要調查清楚，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：這個性平案件，全臺灣真的都非常關切，尤其是發生在校園裡面。很遺憾，我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件，並且已經以性侵罪起訴，這是師對師，是學校的男性老師性侵女教師。這個案件，目前性平會也同時重啟調查，因為已經起訴了，正在司法程序當中。","但本席今天要請教教育部的是，因為是師對師，適用的性別工作平等法第十二條、第十三條。第十二條是指性騷和性侵害案件同等適用；第十三條是針對雇主。以這一案來說就是東華大學，校方應該避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生，也就是校方有責任避免這樣的情況再度發生，而且要有相關措施，要有所作為。第十三之一條是雇主有權力得暫時停止被申訴人之職務，也就是學校可以讓他停職。","本席現在想要請問，教育部有沒有去了解，東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性工法處置？有沒有相關措施？東華大學有沒有盡到避免受害申訴人持續遭受可能危險的措施？"],["鄭部長英耀：5月24日，當事的加害者在調查期間已經被停職半年。詳細情形是不是請司長說明？"],["吳委員沛憶：5月24日，就是前幾天？"],["廖司長高賢：對，前幾天。學校依照相關程序組成調查小組，也啟動性平調查。在性平調查過程當中，已經決議先對這位教師做停職處分。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，非常好。這個案件是什麼時候發生的？"],["廖司長高賢：因為當初在處理時，其實這個……"],["吳委員沛憶：去年8月起訴，但是這位老師直到今年，也就是現在、5月份才被停職。部長，你知道嗎？在學校裡面，甚至是由學生主動發起護衛隊保護這位女性教師，因為從去年8月到今年5月，長達將近一年的時間，這一個已經因性侵被起訴的男性教師還在學校裡面，所以那位女性教師出入學校的時候，都要儘量避免碰觸到。","所以本席還是要再次提醒教育部，因為你們有督導責任，本席認為應當更加積極，尤其這個案件就法規來說，本席覺得很明確是適用性工法。東華大學如果可以早一點召開會議，也許可以早一點做出停職措施，這個教師的工作環境也可以早日比較安全。學校老師的安全、性平的環境，不應該是由學生發起護衛，甚至是由學生幫老師送便當，因為學生實在是看不下去了，才會站出來保護老師，希望教育部可以更積極。","最後，抱歉，請主席給本席一點時間，一樣是性侵案件，臺中幼兒園發生一起4歲女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件。因為去年臺北市發生狼師性侵案之後，我們和教育部一直在討論要修正相關法規，為什麼？因為在臺北市培諾米達案件當中，當時大家最沒有辦法接受的，就是家長已經知道有性侵的情事，所以要去調監視器，甚至是家長要看調查報告也被百般阻撓，不讓家長看報告，這讓家長覺得被二次傷害。","所以今年1月，教育部已經修正相關規定和法規，其中本席認為最重要的，就是增加受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定。所以本席現在想要請教，教育部有沒有去了解臺中這個案件？有沒有讓家長看調查報告？有沒有適用新法？"],["彭署長富源：這有適用新法，但詳細情況是不是容我們和臺中市確定、了解之後，今天之內向您回報？"],["吳委員沛憶：好，請務必確定。"],["彭署長富源：我也要感謝委員修了兩個辦法，還有檢核表也都給了。最後，這兩週內，我們還會給他們一個運用手冊，所以四件事都有照委員指示的方向處理。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們修法是為了保護孩子、保護家長，所以拜託，本席不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻撓的情況，請你們務必了解法規有沒有被落實，好不好？謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳沛憶委員，官員請回座。","接下來請范雲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}