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{\"word\": \"咨\", \"start\": 844.37, \"end\": 844.511, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"询\", \"start\": 844.511, \"end\": 844.531, \"score\": 0.548}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,589 --> 00:00:13,677\n我想關於性評案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性評會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持\n\n2\n00:00:27,665 --> 00:00:47,400\n那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的\n\n3\n00:00:48,220 --> 00:01:03,136\n那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題\n\n4\n00:01:03,917 --> 00:01:13,002\n那為什麼這樣講就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分今天會拖到這麼多委員的集體聲明真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機好好的徹底檢討\n\n5\n00:01:28,891 --> 00:01:34,097\n那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧\n\n6\n00:01:35,867 --> 00:02:04,446\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權\n\n7\n00:02:05,407 --> 00:02:22,438\n就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長老師學生家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長司長都有幫忙解釋\n\n8\n00:02:30,643 --> 00:02:56,911\n當天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到\n\n9\n00:02:57,731 --> 00:03:16,329\n那司长资料司长还有帮忙致歉说之前的确没有咨询足够的学生当然当天真的是炮声隆隆那天主要的诉求一个是高中生应该要分阶段管理因为高中生的自主程度跟国中小不一样\n\n10\n00:03:17,290 --> 00:03:25,556\n還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部\n\n11\n00:03:32,621 --> 00:03:45,653\n如果來不及在草案前至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會那這部分教育部答應了那後來我們看到的是教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會那我現在是希望部長您當\n\n12\n00:03:52,619 --> 00:04:04,477\n今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢\n\n13\n00:04:07,586 --> 00:04:30,630\n謝謝委員關心我想這個星期天的6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看因為有一些既定的想法我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權而且當天我們知道的是\n\n14\n00:04:34,631 --> 00:05:01,343\n有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言我是希望無論如何高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說政部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見\n\n15\n00:05:01,803 --> 00:05:11,209\n因為這是我們民主的成果我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有蒐集國際的經驗\n\n16\n00:05:24,578 --> 00:05:47,906\n以我辦公室這邊這個表格教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有守基相關的禁令政策或法規\n\n17\n00:05:48,766 --> 00:06:12,419\n如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做\n\n18\n00:06:13,659 --> 00:06:30,145\n統一集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況\n\n19\n00:06:32,226 --> 00:06:48,553\n而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡\n\n20\n00:06:51,374 --> 00:07:07,740\n不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西\n\n21\n00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:18,766\n英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的一些好那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁\n\n22\n00:07:28,650 --> 00:07:49,118\n英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻然後呢\n\n23\n00:07:51,039 --> 00:08:04,955\n英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校繳手機可能會有ABG個人保管\n\n24\n00:08:05,796 --> 00:08:25,707\n禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠\n\n25\n00:08:26,707 --> 00:08:42,621\n提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少了\n\n26\n00:08:42,981 --> 00:09:04,526\n另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面\n\n27\n00:09:05,226 --> 00:09:29,609\n他們希望你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服役委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻如果是比同服役委員會的話就有一個但書的條件不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢\n\n28\n00:09:30,289 --> 00:09:56,161\n就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢\n\n29\n00:09:58,466 --> 00:10:22,537\n謝謝委員關心因為確實委員在這一個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給補裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要\n\n30\n00:10:23,477 --> 00:10:38,737\n統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒\n\n31\n00:10:39,238 --> 00:11:04,515\n所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見然後能夠做最後的一些\n\n32\n00:11:04,895 --> 00:11:25,277\n那個部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到他的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生好溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到\n\n33\n00:11:26,678 --> 00:11:54,118\n在建立共識或是教評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國\n\n34\n00:11:54,778 --> 00:12:18,406\n全台只要國中小就有7萬多班14多萬老師喔那他們遇到的問題喔我還是希望喔那也許趁著暑假教師應該要辦公聽會那好好的溝通跟相關的而且是分區喔那另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦\n\n35\n00:12:20,367 --> 00:12:28,829\n然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦\n\n36\n00:12:39,352 --> 00:13:00,191\n第一個制定要更執引更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個競速辦分區場次的公聽會能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的\n\n37\n00:13:02,733 --> 00:13:23,879\n修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎\n\n38\n00:13:25,994 --> 00:13:50,059\n根文報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力\n\n39\n00:13:51,519 --> 00:14:04,531\n好那我们是希望好的政策最后教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好教育部加油好谢谢好谢谢范语云委员的咨询官员请回座接下来有请万美玲委员咨询\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t13677\t我想關於性評案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性評會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持\n27665\t47400\t那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的\n48220\t63136\t那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題\n63917\t73002\t那為什麼這樣講 就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分 今天會拖到這麼多委員的集體聲明真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機 好好的徹底檢討\n88891\t94097\t那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧\n95867\t124446\t謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權\n125407\t142438\t就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長老師學生家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長司長都有幫忙解釋\n150643\t176911\t當天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到\n177731\t196329\t那司长资料司长还有帮忙致歉说之前的确没有咨询足够的学生当然当天真的是炮声隆隆那天主要的诉求一个是高中生应该要分阶段管理因为高中生的自主程度跟国中小不一样\n197290\t205556\t還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部\n212621\t225653\t如果來不及在草案前至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會那這部分教育部答應了那後來我們看到的是教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會那我現在是希望部長您當\n232619\t244477\t今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢\n247586\t270630\t謝謝委員關心 我想這個星期天的6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看 因為有一些既定的想法我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權而且當天我們知道的是\n274631\t301343\t有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言我是希望無論如何高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說政部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見\n301803\t311209\t因為這是我們民主的成果我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有蒐集國際的經驗\n324578\t347906\t以我辦公室這邊這個表格教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有守基相關的禁令政策或法規\n348766\t372419\t如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做\n373659\t390145\t統一集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況\n392226\t408553\t而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡\n411374\t427740\t不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西\n430263\t438766\t英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的一些好那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁\n448650\t469118\t英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻然後呢\n471039\t484955\t英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校繳手機可能會有ABG個人保管\n485796\t505707\t禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠\n506707\t522621\t提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少了\n522981\t544526\t另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面\n545226\t569609\t他們希望你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服役委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻如果是比同服役委員會的話就有一個但書的條件不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢\n570289\t596161\t就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢\n598466\t622537\t謝謝委員關心 因為確實委員在這一個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給補裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要\n623477\t638737\t統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒\n639238\t664515\t所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見然後能夠做最後的一些\n664895\t685277\t那個部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到他的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生好溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到\n686678\t714118\t在建立共識或是教評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國\n714778\t738406\t全台只要國中小就有7萬多班 14多萬老師喔那他們遇到的問題喔 我還是希望喔那也許趁著暑假 教師應該要辦公聽會那好好的溝通跟相關的 而且是分區喔那另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策 如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦\n740367\t748829\t然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦\n759352\t780191\t第一個制定要更執引更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個競速辦分區場次的公聽會能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的\n782733\t803879\t修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎\n805994\t830059\t根文報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力\n831519\t844531\t好 那我们是希望好的政策最后教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好 教育部加油好 谢谢好 谢谢范语云委员的咨询官员请回座接下来有请万美玲委员咨询\n","txt":"我想關於性評案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性評會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持\n那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的\n那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題\n那為什麼這樣講 就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分 今天會拖到這麼多委員的集體聲明真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機 好好的徹底檢討\n那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權\n就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長老師學生家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長司長都有幫忙解釋\n當天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到\n那司长资料司长还有帮忙致歉说之前的确没有咨询足够的学生当然当天真的是炮声隆隆那天主要的诉求一个是高中生应该要分阶段管理因为高中生的自主程度跟国中小不一样\n還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部\n如果來不及在草案前至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會那這部分教育部答應了那後來我們看到的是教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會那我現在是希望部長您當\n今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢\n謝謝委員關心 我想這個星期天的6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看 因為有一些既定的想法我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權而且當天我們知道的是\n有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言我是希望無論如何高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說政部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見\n因為這是我們民主的成果我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有蒐集國際的經驗\n以我辦公室這邊這個表格教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有守基相關的禁令政策或法規\n如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做\n統一集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況\n而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡\n不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西\n英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的一些好那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁\n英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻然後呢\n英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校繳手機可能會有ABG個人保管\n禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠\n提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少了\n另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面\n他們希望你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服役委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻如果是比同服役委員會的話就有一個但書的條件不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢\n就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢\n謝謝委員關心 因為確實委員在這一個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給補裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要\n統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒\n所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見然後能夠做最後的一些\n那個部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到他的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生好溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到\n在建立共識或是教評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國\n全台只要國中小就有7萬多班 14多萬老師喔那他們遇到的問題喔 我還是希望喔那也許趁著暑假 教師應該要辦公聽會那好好的溝通跟相關的 而且是分區喔那另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策 如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦\n然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦\n第一個制定要更執引更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個競速辦分區場次的公聽會能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的\n修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎\n根文報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力\n好 那我们是希望好的政策最后教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好 教育部加油好 谢谢好 谢谢范语云委员的咨询官员请回座接下来有请万美玲委员咨询\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:13.677\n我想關於性評案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性評會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持\n\n00:27.665 --> 00:47.400\n那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的\n\n00:48.220 --> 01:03.136\n那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題\n\n01:03.917 --> 01:13.002\n那為什麼這樣講就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分今天會拖到這麼多委員的集體聲明真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機好好的徹底檢討\n\n01:28.891 --> 01:34.097\n那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧\n\n01:35.867 --> 02:04.446\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權\n\n02:05.407 --> 02:22.438\n就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長老師學生家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長司長都有幫忙解釋\n\n02:30.643 --> 02:56.911\n當天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到\n\n02:57.731 --> 03:16.329\n那司长资料司长还有帮忙致歉说之前的确没有咨询足够的学生当然当天真的是炮声隆隆那天主要的诉求一个是高中生应该要分阶段管理因为高中生的自主程度跟国中小不一样\n\n03:17.290 --> 03:25.556\n還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部\n\n03:32.621 --> 03:45.653\n如果來不及在草案前至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會那這部分教育部答應了那後來我們看到的是教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會那我現在是希望部長您當\n\n03:52.619 --> 04:04.477\n今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢\n\n04:07.586 --> 04:30.630\n謝謝委員關心我想這個星期天的6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看因為有一些既定的想法我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權而且當天我們知道的是\n\n04:34.631 --> 05:01.343\n有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言我是希望無論如何高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說政部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見\n\n05:01.803 --> 05:11.209\n因為這是我們民主的成果我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有蒐集國際的經驗\n\n05:24.578 --> 05:47.906\n以我辦公室這邊這個表格教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有守基相關的禁令政策或法規\n\n05:48.766 --> 06:12.419\n如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做\n\n06:13.659 --> 06:30.145\n統一集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況\n\n06:32.226 --> 06:48.553\n而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡\n\n06:51.374 --> 07:07.740\n不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西\n\n07:10.263 --> 07:18.766\n英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的一些好那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁\n\n07:28.650 --> 07:49.118\n英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻然後呢\n\n07:51.039 --> 08:04.955\n英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校繳手機可能會有ABG個人保管\n\n08:05.796 --> 08:25.707\n禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠\n\n08:26.707 --> 08:42.621\n提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少了\n\n08:42.981 --> 09:04.526\n另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面\n\n09:05.226 --> 09:29.609\n他們希望你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服役委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻如果是比同服役委員會的話就有一個但書的條件不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢\n\n09:30.289 --> 09:56.161\n就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢\n\n09:58.466 --> 10:22.537\n謝謝委員關心因為確實委員在這一個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給補裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要\n\n10:23.477 --> 10:38.737\n統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒\n\n10:39.238 --> 11:04.515\n所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見然後能夠做最後的一些\n\n11:04.895 --> 11:25.277\n那個部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到他的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生好溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到\n\n11:26.678 --> 11:54.118\n在建立共識或是教評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國\n\n11:54.778 --> 12:18.406\n全台只要國中小就有7萬多班14多萬老師喔那他們遇到的問題喔我還是希望喔那也許趁著暑假教師應該要辦公聽會那好好的溝通跟相關的而且是分區喔那另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦\n\n12:20.367 --> 12:28.829\n然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦\n\n12:39.352 --> 13:00.191\n第一個制定要更執引更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個競速辦分區場次的公聽會能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的\n\n13:02.733 --> 13:23.879\n修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎\n\n13:25.994 --> 13:50.059\n根文報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力\n\n13:51.519 --> 14:04.531\n好那我们是希望好的政策最后教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好教育部加油好谢谢好谢谢范语云委员的咨询官员请回座接下来有请万美玲委员咨询\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":13.677,"text":"我想關於性評案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性評會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持"},{"start":27.665,"end":47.4,"text":"那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的"},{"start":48.22,"end":63.136,"text":"那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題"},{"start":63.917,"end":73.002,"text":"那為什麼這樣講 就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分 今天會拖到這麼多委員的集體聲明真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機 好好的徹底檢討"},{"start":88.891,"end":94.097,"text":"那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧"},{"start":95.867,"end":124.446,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權"},{"start":125.407,"end":142.438,"text":"就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長老師學生家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長司長都有幫忙解釋"},{"start":150.643,"end":176.911,"text":"當天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到"},{"start":177.731,"end":196.329,"text":"那司长资料司长还有帮忙致歉说之前的确没有咨询足够的学生当然当天真的是炮声隆隆那天主要的诉求一个是高中生应该要分阶段管理因为高中生的自主程度跟国中小不一样"},{"start":197.29,"end":205.556,"text":"還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部"},{"start":212.621,"end":225.653,"text":"如果來不及在草案前至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會那這部分教育部答應了那後來我們看到的是教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會那我現在是希望部長您當"},{"start":232.619,"end":244.477,"text":"今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢"},{"start":247.586,"end":270.63,"text":"謝謝委員關心 我想這個星期天的6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看 因為有一些既定的想法我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權而且當天我們知道的是"},{"start":274.631,"end":301.343,"text":"有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言我是希望無論如何高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說政部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見"},{"start":301.803,"end":311.209,"text":"因為這是我們民主的成果我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有蒐集國際的經驗"},{"start":324.578,"end":347.906,"text":"以我辦公室這邊這個表格教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有守基相關的禁令政策或法規"},{"start":348.766,"end":372.419,"text":"如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做"},{"start":373.659,"end":390.145,"text":"統一集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況"},{"start":392.226,"end":408.553,"text":"而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡"},{"start":411.374,"end":427.74,"text":"不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西"},{"start":430.263,"end":438.766,"text":"英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的一些好那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁"},{"start":448.65,"end":469.118,"text":"英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻然後呢"},{"start":471.039,"end":484.955,"text":"英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校繳手機可能會有ABG個人保管"},{"start":485.796,"end":505.707,"text":"禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠"},{"start":506.707,"end":522.621,"text":"提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少了"},{"start":522.981,"end":544.526,"text":"另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面"},{"start":545.226,"end":569.609,"text":"他們希望你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服役委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻如果是比同服役委員會的話就有一個但書的條件不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢"},{"start":570.289,"end":596.161,"text":"就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢"},{"start":598.466,"end":622.537,"text":"謝謝委員關心 因為確實委員在這一個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給補裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要"},{"start":623.477,"end":638.737,"text":"統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒"},{"start":639.238,"end":664.515,"text":"所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見然後能夠做最後的一些"},{"start":664.895,"end":685.277,"text":"那個部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到他的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生好溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到"},{"start":686.678,"end":714.118,"text":"在建立共識或是教評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國"},{"start":714.778,"end":738.406,"text":"全台只要國中小就有7萬多班 14多萬老師喔那他們遇到的問題喔 我還是希望喔那也許趁著暑假 教師應該要辦公聽會那好好的溝通跟相關的 而且是分區喔那另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策 如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦"},{"start":740.367,"end":748.829,"text":"然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦"},{"start":759.352,"end":780.191,"text":"第一個制定要更執引更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個競速辦分區場次的公聽會能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的"},{"start":782.733,"end":803.879,"text":"修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎"},{"start":805.994,"end":830.059,"text":"根文報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力"},{"start":831.519,"end":844.531,"text":"好 那我们是希望好的政策最后教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好 教育部加油好 谢谢好 谢谢范语云委员的咨询官员请回座接下来有请万美玲委员咨询"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":818,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時15分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長好。關於教育部對性平案件的相關處置，今天早上郭昱晴委員和張雅琳委員，還有剛剛發言的吳沛憶委員，都表達了他們非常重視。張雅琳委員有三點要求，吳沛憶委員也針對調查性平會的運作情形，希望你們要做到利益迴避，他們所說的，本席都支持。","這不是個別委員的意見，部長應該很清楚。我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次發公文要求，兩次和部長、次長當面討論、要求，如果再加上本席個人更早以前的質詢，就能知道我們一直對你們的回復不滿意。針對這個部分，本席再次重申，它其實是教育部系統性的問題，剛剛張雅琳委員說到你們的性平意識，其實就臺大來看，臺大也產生了系統性的問題。","本席為什麼這麼說？在形式主義上，好像你們認為是合法的，可是如果從性平意識和性別平等教育法的精神來看，你們用的是最低標。這部分拖到今天，有這麼多委員集體發聲明，本席真的希望教育部能把危機變成轉機，好好的澈底檢討。部長，針對這部分，我們後續也會再監督，部長應該同意本席所說的吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心。確實，我們現在是往這個方向在努力，也會深切檢討。"],["范委員雲：因為這件事情，再加上最近的手機爭議，全國不管是大學生或是高中生，對教育部有一些信心危機。不管是性平制度或者是兒少表意權，我們都在努力建構，就是要讓大家看到教育部重視這些事。因為如果教育部不重視性平機制，全國的校長、老師、學生、家長就會有很大的憂慮！如果教育部不重視兒少表意權，青年學生也不能接受！","所以當手機爭議出現的時候，當然，我們知道後來國教署長、司長都有幫忙解釋，當天並不是政策發布會，是媒體詢問，部長突然說出集中保管9月上路，所以就有很多爭議。本席第一時間就邀請全國的高中職學生代表和教育部面對面討論，其中還有遠從屏東、高雄來的，你看照片，當天來了這麼多人。雖然時間很緊急，但他們都很願意來立法院，謝謝當天主秘到場，還有廖司長、國教署長也都到場，廖司長還幫忙致歉，說之前的確沒有諮詢足夠的學生。","當然，當天真的砲聲隆隆，那天主要的訴求，一個是高中生應該要分階段管理，因為高中生的自主程度和國中小不一樣，還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分，謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中。本席第一時間也表示，為了彌補兒少表意權的部分，要求教育部如果來不及在草案前處理，至少草案預告期間要主辦一場學生專場的公聽會，這部分教育部答應了。","後來我們看到，教育部在這個週末會辦一場高中生專場的全國座談會，部長當天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽？讓大家能感受到部長非常重視青少年表意權，願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心。6月1日星期天這場會議，署長和司長都會親自參加，至於我的部分，我來努力，因為有一些既定的行程。"],["范委員雲：本席希望部長可以努力！因為本席相信，以您心理學的背景以及對這件事情的重視，能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽的態度，也知道您重視兒少表意權。而且我們知道，當天會有120位學生參加，不只是全國的高中生，還有線上的部分。但剛剛也有高中生反映，好像只能有45人發言，本席希望無論如何都要增加，因為高中生對這件事砲聲隆隆，雖然對教育部有批判性的意見，但這也是我們實施民主的成果。","其實在座談會的時候，本席也告訴他們，鄭部長一定很高興看到你們對政府的政策有意見，因為這是我們實施民主的成果，我們應該要驕傲才對。所以本席真的非常希望，第一個，當天能夠讓越多學生發言越好，書面意見的部分也應該更開放，線上的部分也要有表達意見的機會，這部分部長都聽到了。","針對這個政策，因為部長一直提到，你們有蒐集、參考國際經驗，以本席辦公室提出的這個表格來看，教育部可以拿去參考，這是我們辦公室蒐集、整理的，它分散在許多新聞中。聯合國教科文組織也有統計，但是這個表格分項是我們辦公室做的。其實2024年底，全世界有79個國家都有手機相關的禁令政策或法規，如果我們只看民主國家的話，這裡列的是歐美民主國家和我們認為值得參考的亞洲國家日本、韓國、新加坡。","部長，你可以看到，雖然全國統一有相關禁用政策是多數，可是高中的部分幾乎都是分級管理不管制，高中不管制是民主國家的做法，包含日本都是這麼做。至於採統一集中保管策略的則是少數，我們整理到的，只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利和瑞典。開放學校自主彈性規範，在這幾種方法中，選擇彈性規範的也是多數，這是我們辦公室整理的的國際狀況。","教育部現在公告的草案，我們覺得還是太簡略，因為全國有3,854個學校，每個學校的狀況都不同，他們都要各自討論或執行，這個指引，雖然你們叫做指引，但其實不夠詳盡。部長有沒有看過本席手上這份資料？這是我們辦公室找到的，英國針對手機政策頒布之後，他們教育部所做的指引。部長有看過嗎？本席手上這份資料在網路上也有，待會可以給您。您有沒有看過？是否知道有這個資料？"],["鄭部長英耀：英國這個詳細的data，我沒有看，但是我大概知道英國有一些相關規範。"],["范委員雲：這份資料待會可以直接給部長，它非常詳盡，這個指引有11頁，而我們的草案只有3頁。英國頒布相關政策之後還有一個說帖，這個說帖是要告訴每個學校如何和家長、老師、學生溝通，因為這個溝通是非常繁複的，你可以看到，這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻。","英國有給學校指引，就像你們也有給幾個方式，可是他們很清楚的說明這四種管理方式各自的優點和缺點，還有學校需要注意的事情，譬如入校繳手機時可能會有AB機。個人保管是禁止使用但不收繳，必須要有親師生高度信任，比較像我們現在高中的狀況，你可以看到他們的指引這麼詳盡，可是我們的並沒有。","所以本席真的希望教育部可以參考英國這兩份資料，待會可以直接給部長，希望你們能夠提供學校更詳細的溝通說帖和政策指引，讓學校在選擇的時候能夠更了解。關於這個部分，剛剛部長已經說還沒有看過，本席認為現在我們提供的內容真的太少了。另外，本席相信禮拜天的時候高中生也會反映，因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就有談到。","還有，最近本席也請了幾個高中生代表一起直播，部長有興趣的話可以快轉看一下。你可以看到現在高中生的成熟度，就像我們當年的大學生，因為他們現在有學生議會、有代表。他們希望所謂的學生代表三分之一比例要比照服儀委員會，且不得在最後的校務會議修改，剛剛也有不同政黨委員談到是不是會被推翻？但如果是比照服儀委員會就會有但書，不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢？學生希望你們在禮拜天的公聽會之後能夠比照服儀委員會的規定，把行動載具委員會的設立更清楚明訂在這個規則中。包含如果是比照服儀委員會的規定，校務會議在什麼樣的情況下，除非是違法，否則不得任意修改委員會的決議，也包含剛剛其他委員講到的明訂成員產生的方式及三分之一決議的方式等等，不知道部長能不能考慮呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心！確實委員在手機管理原則方面也給部裡許多的指導。雖然我並沒有看關於英國在這方面比較detail的東西，但我看到澳洲與英國在4個選項中分別做的一些作為也是我們這次部裡採用的管理要點。簡單來講，學校到底是要統一集中管理或是放在各班、或是由學生關機後放在書包裡，確實我們也針對國際的現況做了一些研究，感謝委員的提醒。目前我們的公告，事實上，除了草案之外，還有範本及QA，大概也有十幾頁，無論如何，感謝委員給我們這樣的意見。也許在6月1日星期天的公聽會結束之後，因為它有實體、有線上，我們要如何廣納學生的意見，做最後的要點修改，我想……"],["范委員雲：部長，你說在精神上有參考澳洲的做法，但我看到你們這4個選項還是太草略，沒有想到它的優缺點以及如何與師生溝通。"],["鄭部長英耀：就是針對它的優缺點進行評估，原本這些訊息並沒有單一的選項，由學校回去建立共識或是在教評會中充分反映。"],["范委員雲：家長、老師及學生在這個議題上可能有一些各自的意見及衝突，就像我們剛剛講的各方意見，當然，我們委員對於教育部在這個部分的關心是肯定的，但是如何在政策制定過程中考慮多方意見並好好的溝通？還是要提醒部長，全臺光國中小就有七萬多班、十四萬多名教師，對於他們遇到的問題，也許能趁暑假舉辦教師的公聽會好好溝通相關問題，而且要分區舉辦。另外，那天我告訴過部長，這麼重要的政策，如果以法國為例，其實他們有做200所中學的試辦，隔了一年之後才正式上路，這樣才知道指引不足。尤其是現在如果要試辦國中、小手機集中保管的話，我知道部長很焦慮，你覺得這是一個重要的政策，沒有時間試辦，但我還是有四個訴求。第一個，制定指引要更完整，溝通也要有一個指引。第二個，三分之一的部分能不能比照服儀委員會的規定，納入你的辦法中？第三個，盡速舉辦分區場次的公聽會，最好能夠完整蒐集教師、學生及家長的意見。最後，教育部是不是能夠考慮在修正公布後有一個試辦期，晚一點再上路？我知道教育部有自己的agenda，但是從這一波的溝通經驗中，我們認為它會影響老師、影響學生以及影響家長的生活，好的政策需要好的溝通，好不好？部長，可以回去考慮嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：報告委員，事實上，我們對於行動載具本來就已經有既定的辦法，現在只是修訂。"],["范委員雲：這個我們了解。"],["鄭部長英耀：第二個，在這個修訂的過程中，事實上，包括全教產、教師會及家長會等所有的團體，我們也都在座談時徵詢他們的意見，當然我們也會努力讓全國有一個更好的遵循方向。"],["范委員雲：我們希望教育部這個好的政策在最後能得到大家的肯定及支持，教育部加油！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員的質詢，官員請回座。","接下來有請萬美玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}