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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 297.122, \"end\": 297.283, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 297.283, \"end\": 297.423, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 297.423, \"end\": 297.583, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 297.583, \"end\": 297.863, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 297.863, \"end\": 298.023, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 298.023, \"end\": 298.043, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 298.043, \"end\": 298.403, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 298.403, \"end\": 298.844, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 298.844, \"end\": 299.024, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 299.024, \"end\": 299.484, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 299.484, \"end\": 299.604, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 299.604, \"end\": 300.024, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 300.024, \"end\": 300.445, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 300.445, \"end\": 300.685, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 300.685, \"end\": 300.925, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 300.925, \"end\": 301.165, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 301.165, \"end\": 301.325, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 301.325, \"end\": 301.485, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 301.485, \"end\": 301.505, \"score\": 0.974}]}, {\"start\": 302.986, \"end\": 326.184, \"text\": \"那我覺得 趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路 其實本席看起來六月份 七月 八月 九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個 教育部可能要再思考一下那同時 如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後 一週內 給我一個回覆以上這些\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 302.986, \"end\": 303.126, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 303.126, \"end\": 303.387, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 303.387, \"end\": 303.827, \"score\": 0.906}, 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00:01:33,791\n那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過\n\n5\n00:01:35,572 --> 00:01:47,570\n質詢問過您當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通縣市溝通跟學生溝通各溝通了幾次\n\n6\n00:01:52,402 --> 00:02:20,539\n跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎\n\n7\n00:02:24,236 --> 00:02:50,828\n跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟\n\n8\n00:02:52,171 --> 00:02:55,835\n我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來\n\n9\n00:03:12,110 --> 00:03:35,688\n公布不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈那尤其其中有很多是認為教育部是推諉把這個問題丟給了學校把這個壓力丟給了這個老師那也造成學生不開心那我現在其實也要問一下這個部長部長我們不管用哪一種方式現在我們要去做這個手機的統一管理那學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎\n\n10\n00:03:40,213 --> 00:03:46,621\n首先手機的管理本來現在就有有跟學校做溝通嗎根據我們的草案內容\n\n11\n00:03:55,187 --> 00:04:14,306\n跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會也有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表\n\n12\n00:04:14,466 --> 00:04:32,005\n跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國108年好啦好啦你不要說明了你下去啦那個部長所以我想喔我還是重申一次就是說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的怎麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看\n\n13\n00:04:32,766 --> 00:05:01,505\n這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在草原就是很混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多\n\n14\n00:05:02,986 --> 00:05:26,184\n那我覺得趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路其實本席看起來六月份七月八月九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個教育部可能要再思考一下那同時如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後一週內給我一個回覆以上這些\n\n15\n00:05:27,465 --> 00:05:53,484\n謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長\n\n16\n00:05:55,726 --> 00:06:03,385\n你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣\n\n17\n00:06:06,008 --> 00:06:29,864\n謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助\n\n18\n00:06:31,445 --> 00:06:56,608\n我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实非常非常多起了那不管这个受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的\n\n19\n00:06:57,248 --> 00:07:08,901\n所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億\n\n20\n00:07:12,125 --> 00:07:40,306\n总共50亿那本席也看了一下这个咨询率非常高将近要97%将近97%那去年我们就继续推动永续提升人行安全计划那113年到116年4年共400亿那是由地方这个县市政府提上来教育局把它提上这个需求那我们是由内政部国土署来匡列260亿还有交通部的公路局匡列140亿来协助地方做那但是呢\n\n21\n00:07:40,666 --> 00:07:59,472\n我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我們有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了\n\n22\n00:08:02,813 --> 00:08:31,807\n在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合\n\n23\n00:08:33,221 --> 00:08:53,115\n謝謝委員提醒確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在\n\n24\n00:08:54,216 --> 00:09:06,188\n這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計程車站\n\n25\n00:09:11,494 --> 00:09:35,433\n我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府的教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變\n\n26\n00:09:36,693 --> 00:09:56,639\n第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著\n\n27\n00:09:58,499 --> 00:10:13,040\n因為部長知道我也是桃園市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課\n\n28\n00:10:13,881 --> 00:10:29,813\n排隊只要舉著手所有的司機都會讓他那所以你也提過你也在這個今天在教育部終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育\n\n29\n00:10:31,374 --> 00:10:46,596\n我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說\n\n30\n00:10:47,797 --> 00:11:06,757\n這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里\n\n31\n00:11:07,998 --> 00:11:18,085\n我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天呢孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯\n\n32\n00:11:23,649 --> 00:11:43,028\n那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那不裡面如果下去的話也許各縣市交易局就會落實我們就試試看不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做\n\n33\n00:11:43,749 --> 00:12:01,226\n那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼報上來\n\n34\n00:12:02,867 --> 00:12:24,492\n然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好好謝謝委員提醒我想我們一定會努力好謝謝好謝謝萬美林委員質詢官員請回座\n\n35\n00:12:34,229 --> 00:12:36,622\n好那現在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t18871\t大家好,一樣跟你來談手機管制的相關規定的問題我想聽了一個早上學生團體沒有溝通好,教室沒有溝通好家長有不同的意見商務的時間,大家也有不同的說法事辦的方式也不同\n19352\t22294\t公聽會要辦 座談會要辦我就不曉得為什麼在當時我們這個草案要訂定之前不能夠更整密一下做好這些計畫那因此這麼大的一些紛擾那當然我想這個手機要去做一個管制現在在世界各國其實越來越多國家都這麼做\n39728\t67344\t那事實上呢如果你現在去問就是你去問很多的人大家大概也都覺得說這個手機啊的確對孩子的學習是有影響的不然我們不會那麼無聊突然間要辦這個草案嘛但怎麼做尤其是我們看到我們現在要限制的對象是學生我們要限制的對象是學生我們要落實管理跟執行是老師那一旦我們限制的對象我們沒有去做一個很妥適很好的溝通或者是很便利的一個配套\n68044\t93791\t那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過\n95572\t107570\t質詢問過您 當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好 那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通 縣市溝通跟學生溝通 各溝通了幾次\n112402\t140539\t跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好 其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好 所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎\n144236\t170828\t跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總 全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟\n172171\t175835\t我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來\n192110\t215688\t公布不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈那尤其其中有很多是認為教育部是推諉把這個問題丟給了學校把這個壓力丟給了這個老師那也造成學生不開心那我現在其實也要問一下這個部長部長我們不管用哪一種方式現在我們要去做這個手機的統一管理那學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎\n220213\t226621\t首先手機的管理本來現在就有有跟學校做溝通嗎 根據我們的草案內容\n235187\t254306\t跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會也有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表\n254466\t272005\t跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國108年好啦好啦你不要說明了你下去啦那個部長所以我想喔我還是重申一次就是說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的怎麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看\n272766\t301505\t這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在草原就是很混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多\n302986\t326184\t那我覺得 趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路 其實本席看起來六月份 七月 八月 九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個 教育部可能要再思考一下那同時 如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後 一週內 給我一個回覆以上這些\n327465\t353484\t謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長\n355726\t363385\t你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣\n366008\t389864\t謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助\n391445\t416608\t我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实非常非常多起了那不管这个受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的\n417248\t428901\t所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億\n432125\t460306\t总共50亿那本席也看了一下这个咨询率非常高将近要97%将近97%那去年我们就继续推动永续提升人行安全计划那113年到116年4年共400亿那是由地方这个县市政府提上来教育局把它提上这个需求那我们是由内政部国土署来匡列260亿还有交通部的公路局匡列140亿来协助地方做那但是呢\n460666\t479472\t我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我們有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了\n482813\t511807\t在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合\n513221\t533115\t謝謝委員提醒 確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學 讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在\n534216\t546188\t這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計程車站\n551494\t575433\t我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府的教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變\n576693\t596639\t第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著\n598499\t613040\t因為部長知道我也是桃園市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課\n613881\t629813\t排隊只要舉著手所有的司機都會讓他那所以你也提過你也在這個今天在教育部終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育\n631374\t646596\t我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說\n647797\t666757\t這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里\n667998\t678085\t我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天呢孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯\n683649\t703028\t那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那不裡面如果下去的話也許各縣市交易局就會落實我們就試試看不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做\n703749\t721226\t那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼報上來\n722867\t744492\t然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好好 謝謝委員提醒我想我們一定會努力好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美林委員質詢 官員請回座\n754229\t756622\t好那現在\n","txt":"大家好,一樣跟你來談手機管制的相關規定的問題我想聽了一個早上學生團體沒有溝通好,教室沒有溝通好家長有不同的意見商務的時間,大家也有不同的說法事辦的方式也不同\n公聽會要辦 座談會要辦我就不曉得為什麼在當時我們這個草案要訂定之前不能夠更整密一下做好這些計畫那因此這麼大的一些紛擾那當然我想這個手機要去做一個管制現在在世界各國其實越來越多國家都這麼做\n那事實上呢如果你現在去問就是你去問很多的人大家大概也都覺得說這個手機啊的確對孩子的學習是有影響的不然我們不會那麼無聊突然間要辦這個草案嘛但怎麼做尤其是我們看到我們現在要限制的對象是學生我們要限制的對象是學生我們要落實管理跟執行是老師那一旦我們限制的對象我們沒有去做一個很妥適很好的溝通或者是很便利的一個配套\n那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過\n質詢問過您 當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好 那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通 縣市溝通跟學生溝通 各溝通了幾次\n跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好 其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好 所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎\n跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總 全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟\n我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來\n公布不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈那尤其其中有很多是認為教育部是推諉把這個問題丟給了學校把這個壓力丟給了這個老師那也造成學生不開心那我現在其實也要問一下這個部長部長我們不管用哪一種方式現在我們要去做這個手機的統一管理那學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎\n首先手機的管理本來現在就有有跟學校做溝通嗎 根據我們的草案內容\n跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會也有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表\n跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國108年好啦好啦你不要說明了你下去啦那個部長所以我想喔我還是重申一次就是說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的怎麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看\n這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在草原就是很混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多\n那我覺得 趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路 其實本席看起來六月份 七月 八月 九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個 教育部可能要再思考一下那同時 如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後 一週內 給我一個回覆以上這些\n謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長\n你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣\n謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助\n我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实非常非常多起了那不管这个受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的\n所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億\n总共50亿那本席也看了一下这个咨询率非常高将近要97%将近97%那去年我们就继续推动永续提升人行安全计划那113年到116年4年共400亿那是由地方这个县市政府提上来教育局把它提上这个需求那我们是由内政部国土署来匡列260亿还有交通部的公路局匡列140亿来协助地方做那但是呢\n我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我們有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了\n在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合\n謝謝委員提醒 確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學 讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在\n這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計程車站\n我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府的教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變\n第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著\n因為部長知道我也是桃園市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課\n排隊只要舉著手所有的司機都會讓他那所以你也提過你也在這個今天在教育部終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育\n我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說\n這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里\n我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天呢孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯\n那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那不裡面如果下去的話也許各縣市交易局就會落實我們就試試看不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做\n那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼報上來\n然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好好 謝謝委員提醒我想我們一定會努力好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美林委員質詢 官員請回座\n好那現在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:18.871\n大家好,一樣跟你來談手機管制的相關規定的問題我想聽了一個早上學生團體沒有溝通好,教室沒有溝通好家長有不同的意見商務的時間,大家也有不同的說法事辦的方式也不同\n\n00:19.352 --> 00:22.294\n公聽會要辦座談會要辦我就不曉得為什麼在當時我們這個草案要訂定之前不能夠更整密一下做好這些計畫那因此這麼大的一些紛擾那當然我想這個手機要去做一個管制現在在世界各國其實越來越多國家都這麼做\n\n00:39.728 --> 01:07.344\n那事實上呢如果你現在去問就是你去問很多的人大家大概也都覺得說這個手機啊的確對孩子的學習是有影響的不然我們不會那麼無聊突然間要辦這個草案嘛但怎麼做尤其是我們看到我們現在要限制的對象是學生我們要限制的對象是學生我們要落實管理跟執行是老師那一旦我們限制的對象我們沒有去做一個很妥適很好的溝通或者是很便利的一個配套\n\n01:08.044 --> 01:33.791\n那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過\n\n01:35.572 --> 01:47.570\n質詢問過您當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通縣市溝通跟學生溝通各溝通了幾次\n\n01:52.402 --> 02:20.539\n跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎\n\n02:24.236 --> 02:50.828\n跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟\n\n02:52.171 --> 02:55.835\n我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來\n\n03:12.110 --> 03:35.688\n公布不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈那尤其其中有很多是認為教育部是推諉把這個問題丟給了學校把這個壓力丟給了這個老師那也造成學生不開心那我現在其實也要問一下這個部長部長我們不管用哪一種方式現在我們要去做這個手機的統一管理那學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎\n\n03:40.213 --> 03:46.621\n首先手機的管理本來現在就有有跟學校做溝通嗎根據我們的草案內容\n\n03:55.187 --> 04:14.306\n跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會也有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表\n\n04:14.466 --> 04:32.005\n跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國108年好啦好啦你不要說明了你下去啦那個部長所以我想喔我還是重申一次就是說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的怎麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看\n\n04:32.766 --> 05:01.505\n這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在草原就是很混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多\n\n05:02.986 --> 05:26.184\n那我覺得趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路其實本席看起來六月份七月八月九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個教育部可能要再思考一下那同時如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後一週內給我一個回覆以上這些\n\n05:27.465 --> 05:53.484\n謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長\n\n05:55.726 --> 06:03.385\n你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣\n\n06:06.008 --> 06:29.864\n謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助\n\n06:31.445 --> 06:56.608\n我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实非常非常多起了那不管这个受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的\n\n06:57.248 --> 07:08.901\n所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億\n\n07:12.125 --> 07:40.306\n总共50亿那本席也看了一下这个咨询率非常高将近要97%将近97%那去年我们就继续推动永续提升人行安全计划那113年到116年4年共400亿那是由地方这个县市政府提上来教育局把它提上这个需求那我们是由内政部国土署来匡列260亿还有交通部的公路局匡列140亿来协助地方做那但是呢\n\n07:40.666 --> 07:59.472\n我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我們有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了\n\n08:02.813 --> 08:31.807\n在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合\n\n08:33.221 --> 08:53.115\n謝謝委員提醒確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在\n\n08:54.216 --> 09:06.188\n這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計程車站\n\n09:11.494 --> 09:35.433\n我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府的教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變\n\n09:36.693 --> 09:56.639\n第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著\n\n09:58.499 --> 10:13.040\n因為部長知道我也是桃園市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課\n\n10:13.881 --> 10:29.813\n排隊只要舉著手所有的司機都會讓他那所以你也提過你也在這個今天在教育部終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育\n\n10:31.374 --> 10:46.596\n我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說\n\n10:47.797 --> 11:06.757\n這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里\n\n11:07.998 --> 11:18.085\n我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天呢孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯\n\n11:23.649 --> 11:43.028\n那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那不裡面如果下去的話也許各縣市交易局就會落實我們就試試看不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做\n\n11:43.749 --> 12:01.226\n那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼報上來\n\n12:02.867 --> 12:24.492\n然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好好謝謝委員提醒我想我們一定會努力好謝謝好謝謝萬美林委員質詢官員請回座\n\n12:34.229 --> 12:36.622\n好那現在\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":18.871,"text":"大家好,一樣跟你來談手機管制的相關規定的問題我想聽了一個早上學生團體沒有溝通好,教室沒有溝通好家長有不同的意見商務的時間,大家也有不同的說法事辦的方式也不同"},{"start":19.352,"end":22.294,"text":"公聽會要辦 座談會要辦我就不曉得為什麼在當時我們這個草案要訂定之前不能夠更整密一下做好這些計畫那因此這麼大的一些紛擾那當然我想這個手機要去做一個管制現在在世界各國其實越來越多國家都這麼做"},{"start":39.728,"end":67.344,"text":"那事實上呢如果你現在去問就是你去問很多的人大家大概也都覺得說這個手機啊的確對孩子的學習是有影響的不然我們不會那麼無聊突然間要辦這個草案嘛但怎麼做尤其是我們看到我們現在要限制的對象是學生我們要限制的對象是學生我們要落實管理跟執行是老師那一旦我們限制的對象我們沒有去做一個很妥適很好的溝通或者是很便利的一個配套"},{"start":68.044,"end":93.791,"text":"那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過"},{"start":95.572,"end":107.57,"text":"質詢問過您 當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好 那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通 縣市溝通跟學生溝通 各溝通了幾次"},{"start":112.402,"end":140.539,"text":"跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好 其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好 所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎"},{"start":144.236,"end":170.828,"text":"跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總 全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟"},{"start":172.171,"end":175.835,"text":"我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來"},{"start":192.11,"end":215.688,"text":"公布不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈那尤其其中有很多是認為教育部是推諉把這個問題丟給了學校把這個壓力丟給了這個老師那也造成學生不開心那我現在其實也要問一下這個部長部長我們不管用哪一種方式現在我們要去做這個手機的統一管理那學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎"},{"start":220.213,"end":226.621,"text":"首先手機的管理本來現在就有有跟學校做溝通嗎 根據我們的草案內容"},{"start":235.187,"end":254.306,"text":"跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會也有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表"},{"start":254.466,"end":272.005,"text":"跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國108年好啦好啦你不要說明了你下去啦那個部長所以我想喔我還是重申一次就是說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的怎麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看"},{"start":272.766,"end":301.505,"text":"這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在草原就是很混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多"},{"start":302.986,"end":326.184,"text":"那我覺得 趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路 其實本席看起來六月份 七月 八月 九月就要上路其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個 教育部可能要再思考一下那同時 如果今天上路以後是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後怎麼滾動是檢討能不能在會後 一週內 給我一個回覆以上這些"},{"start":327.465,"end":353.484,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長"},{"start":355.726,"end":363.385,"text":"你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":366.008,"end":389.864,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助"},{"start":391.445,"end":416.608,"text":"我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实非常非常多起了那不管这个受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的"},{"start":417.248,"end":428.901,"text":"所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億"},{"start":432.125,"end":460.306,"text":"总共50亿那本席也看了一下这个咨询率非常高将近要97%将近97%那去年我们就继续推动永续提升人行安全计划那113年到116年4年共400亿那是由地方这个县市政府提上来教育局把它提上这个需求那我们是由内政部国土署来匡列260亿还有交通部的公路局匡列140亿来协助地方做那但是呢"},{"start":460.666,"end":479.472,"text":"我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我們有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了"},{"start":482.813,"end":511.807,"text":"在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合"},{"start":513.221,"end":533.115,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學 讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在"},{"start":534.216,"end":546.188,"text":"這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計程車站"},{"start":551.494,"end":575.433,"text":"我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府的教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變"},{"start":576.693,"end":596.639,"text":"第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著"},{"start":598.499,"end":613.04,"text":"因為部長知道我也是桃園市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課"},{"start":613.881,"end":629.813,"text":"排隊只要舉著手所有的司機都會讓他那所以你也提過你也在這個今天在教育部終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育"},{"start":631.374,"end":646.596,"text":"我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說"},{"start":647.797,"end":666.757,"text":"這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里"},{"start":667.998,"end":678.085,"text":"我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天呢孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯"},{"start":683.649,"end":703.028,"text":"那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那不裡面如果下去的話也許各縣市交易局就會落實我們就試試看不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做"},{"start":703.749,"end":721.226,"text":"那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼報上來"},{"start":722.867,"end":744.492,"text":"然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好好 謝謝委員提醒我想我們一定會努力好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美林委員質詢 官員請回座"},{"start":754.229,"end":756.622,"text":"好那現在"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":850,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（12時29分）謝謝召委。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["萬委員美玲：部長好。一樣要與你談關於手機管制相關規定的問題。聽了一個早上，學生團體沒有溝通好、教師沒有溝通好、家長有不同的意見、大家對於上路的時間也有不同的說法、試辦的方式也不同，公聽會要辦、座談會要辦，我就不知道為什麼當初在草案訂定之前不能更縝密的做好這些計畫，以至於現在引起了這麼大的紛擾。","當然，現在有越來越多國家開始進行手機的管制，事實上，如果你去問很多的人，大家大概也都認為手機的確會對孩子學習產生影響，不然我們不會這麼無聊的突然間要討論這個草案嘛！但是要怎麼做？尤其我們現在要限制的對象是學生、我們要限制的對象是學生，然而要落實管理職權的人是老師，一旦我們沒有與被限制的對象進行妥適的良好溝通或制定很便利的配套，當老師要開始管理之後，可想而知，學校就會充滿著師生之間的衝突，現在就已經開始有這樣的情況了。因此，我認為部長真的要好好想想該怎麼做。","當然我們也樂見6月1日能夠多多聽取學生的想法，畢竟他們是被限制人，但是這個草案已經講了這麼久，眼看著公告日期是到6月1日。本席記得之前質詢時問過你，當時你說本來在2月就要公告，一直到6月是希望能與學生溝通。既然如此，我就請教一下，現在無論是與學校溝通、與縣市溝通、與學生溝通，各溝通了幾次？"],["吳司長穎沺：向委員說明一下，首先，教育部在3月召開過一個協商會議……"],["萬委員美玲：我要數字就好，其他不需要。"],["吳司長穎沺：目前在眾開講平台上廣集各方的意見，所以有一次的實體，其他則是在平台上蒐集資料，6月1日會再做……"],["萬委員美玲：所以我們總共只與學生團體做了一次的溝通，其他都是在線上蒐集資料，請問我們與教師團體溝通過嗎？"],["吳司長穎沺：報告委員，有。"],["萬委員美玲：幾次？對象？"],["吳司長穎沺：1次。"],["萬委員美玲：對象呢？"],["吳司長穎沺：就是全國的教師代表，譬如全教總、全教產。"],["萬委員美玲：幾個人？"],["吳司長穎沺：我們都是邀請他們以代表來參加，蒐整他們的意見。"],["萬委員美玲：家長團體呢？"],["吳司長穎沺：有。"],["萬委員美玲：與什麼家長團體溝通？"],["吳司長穎沺：向委員說明一下，國教盟與全家盟。"],["萬委員美玲：我想，第一個，你們的溝通次數夠不夠？談的內容有沒有辦法讓他們充分的表達？再來是蒐集的範本數夠不夠做為參考？這些都是很重要的。其次，我們看到在這個草案公布後不久就出現這麼多反彈的聲音，其中有很多是認為教育部在推諉，把這個問題丟給學校、把這個壓力丟給老師，也造成學生不開心。請問部長，無論我們現在要用哪種方式做手機的統一管理，學校方面有辦法這樣配合嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：報告委員，手機的管理本來就有……"],["萬委員美玲：根據我們的草案內容，與學校做過溝通嗎？"],["吳司長穎沺：向委員說明一下，我們當時的協商會議也有找學校的行政代表，此外，就是……"],["萬委員美玲：是全國高中小學的行政代表嗎？沒有吧？"],["吳司長穎沺：我們有兩個行政的代表，此外，報告委員，就是……"],["萬委員美玲：你是說全國的高中小學只找了兩個行政代表？"],["吳司長穎沺：向委員再說明一下，我們這個辦法其實是在民國108年就開始實施……"],["萬委員美玲：好啦！好啦！你不要說明了，下去啦！","部長，我還是要重申一次，我們對於管理手機的這件事是贊成的，但怎麼管是一個重點！因為我們不是要限制他們使用手機，而是要思考如何對手機做一個妥適的使用，讓家長能放心、也讓學生能便利，但是現在你的草案看起來就是很混亂。因此，今天在此要提醒，第一個，我希望教育部能與全國各縣市的學校進行溝通，也能與教師代表進行人數更廣、更深切的溝通，當然也要與被限制的學生進行溝通。最後，各縣市也有許多家長會的代表，我認為要趕快蒐集他們的意見。","如果你們在9月就要上路，在本席看來，現在只剩下6月、7月及8月，其實在時間上是非常趕的，因此教育部可能要再思考一下。同時，在上路之後是不是能有一個試辦的機制？試辦之後如何做滾動式的檢討？針對以上這些問題，能不能在會後的一週內給我一個回復？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒！在6月1日的公聽會結束後，我們會有一個完整的……"],["萬委員美玲：既然你們都要整理，就在公聽會的一週後，好不好？謝謝。","接下來一樣要請教部長，上個禮拜有一則非常沉痛的新聞事件，在三峽北大國小旁發生了嚴重的車禍。對於新聞播放的一幕幕畫面，其實我們都不忍心再看第二次，真的很心痛！部長，你是不是去學校做過關心？該如何協助受影響的學生及家庭？目前的狀況是怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心！確實當天事件發生後我就陪同總統在第一時間去醫院關心受害的學生及家屬，另外，我也與新北市的張局長保持電話聯絡，如果新北市的處理有需要教育部協助配合之處……"],["萬委員美玲：後續還有很多的事情，中央與地方要一起好好協助處理這個案子。我們看到這起車禍就是發生在學校旁邊，其實過去多年來在學校旁邊發生的大大小小車禍非常非常多，無論受傷的狀況或事件造成的後續嚴重性有多大，只要有一個孩子受傷，我們都是很不捨的，因此，對於學校周邊通行步道的關注就越來越高。","我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊暨行車安全道路改善計畫，總共是50億元。本席也看了一下，執行率非常高將近97%。去年我們就接續推動永續提升人行安全計畫，113年到116年4年共400億元，由地方縣市政府的教育局提出需求，再由內政部國土署匡列260億元、交通部公路局匡列140億元協助地方執行。但是我覺得教育部在這個部分並沒有扮演任何角色，在這件事情發生之後，是不是有思考過，教育部有沒有什麼方式可以協助地方政府或地方教育局與國土署及交通部一起將這個規劃做得更好？這是第一個。","第二個，我們看到這個預算的執行，剛剛我們說過之前50億元的執行率將近97%，但是就本席自己的桃園市而言，我們桃園市這麼大、這麼多的學校，其實，第1，有很多學校不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來；第2，可能有一些些縣市教育局認為好像不太符合國土署想要推動的目標。因此，教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個跨平台提供協助或資訊、資源的整合？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒！我們目前確實是有這樣一個跨部會的平台，但是委員也特別提到，通學步道如何落實到社區的上學路隊，包括讓學生在上學及放學時能更安全，事實上，我們也在前幾天的校安行政會議中特別提出，地方政府如何協助學校在上學及放學時間有更多的警力或呼籲更多的家長，因為現在家長都是在上學及放學的時間開車或騎車……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，我相信各縣市政府對這個部分都會很重視、各縣市政府的教育局也都會做，但是分為兩個部分：首先，道路上的安全、道路上的設計是不是要作一些調整？關於這個調整的因應，譬如上學情況的變更不一，或者我們現在開始鼓勵讓孩子自己上學，交通狀況的不一致，現在可能都要做一個改變。其次是什麼？就是教育、就是教育！部長，你與我及很多人都參與過、支持過靖娟文教基金會關於小黃帽交通安全教育計畫，我看到部長很可愛都有去支持，對不對？但是說真的，我們在每一年支持這樣的活動之餘……部長，你知道我也是桃園市家長協會的理事長，其實我們也試著如何將它落實到地方上，並不是這一次而已，但是我認為我們在交通安全教育上要再加強。你我都在日本看過小學生過馬路只要舉起手，開車的司機都會停下來讓他們先過。今天你在教育部終身教育解凍的報告中也提到要推動交通安全的教育，是不是可以就這兩點向我說明一下，一個是議題、一個是教育？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想它真的是需要中央與地方合作，而且我們在課程上也有一個交通安全五階段的課程規劃。另外，剛才委員關心的如何針對交通安全進行更縝密的規劃，交通部也提出在學校附近的十字路口如何讓汽車能夠減速，等於是距離保留由現在可能是1、2公里變成3至6公里。"],["萬委員美玲：部長，我給你一個具體的建議。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["萬委員美玲：中央與地方當然要合作，但我給你一個具體的建議，我們以更高的高度從教育部下來。第一個，我們讓政策下去，譬如孩子要過馬路的做法，既然覺得日本做得不錯，我們就統一規範，是不是孩子都可以舉起手，養成這個習慣。從部裡下去的話，也許各縣市教育局就會落實，我們就試試看，不管有沒有導護老師帶領、有沒有交通志工、義工，我們都做這個動作，甚至以前也有過小黃旗、小黃帽等等，不管是哪一種方式，我們就試試看由中央的高度下去做。我認為要去試行，而不是只有呼籲，光呼籲其實是會來不及的。","第二個，我覺得你可以用更高的高度去看，到底現在學校周邊的道路有什麼樣的大問題是大家共有的狀況？再告訴各縣市政府遇到這樣的狀況時要如何提報上來，經由剛才我說的與內政部及交通部的合作平台，大家進行一個三方平台的溝通，組成一個小組，我認為這樣做會比較好。今天提出這些建議讓部長想一想，希望能盡快地從中央的高度去重視學生的安全，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：好，謝謝委員的提醒！我們一定會努力。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員的質詢，官員請回座。","現在我們處理解凍專案報告11案。剛才已稍作溝通，如果有血糖的問題或需要，同仁可以先到外面用餐，但我們今天主要還是要先處理解凍專案報告。","解凍專案報告11案，請議事人員宣讀，並進行討論。","討論事項","處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍專案報告案11案。","一、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該部新增決議(三十五)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","二、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該部新增決議(四十三)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","三、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該部新增決議(四十八)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","四、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送體育署新增決議(一五六)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","五、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送體育署新增決議(一七五)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","六、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送青年發展署新增決議(一九五)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","七、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送國家圖書館新增決議(二○六)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","八、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送國立公共資訊圖書館新增決議(二○九)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","九、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送國家教育研究院新增決議(二一三)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","十、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該部決議(五)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。","十一、教育部函，為114年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送青年發展署決議(二)預算凍結專案報告，請查照案。"],["主席：針對解凍專案報告案第一案，頁次在第1頁，請問各位委員有無意見？"],["林委員宜瑾：沒有。"],["主席：本席這邊做一點簡單的陳述。今天處理教育部114年度的解凍案，書面解凍的部分雖然在會議一開始就已經處理完畢，但教育部的書面報告其實完全沒有答復本席對預算案提出的問題。","針對五大信賴產業，預計4年要培育20萬AI人才，各部會到底怎麼分工？教育部負責哪個部分？預計分年度各年到底要培育多少AI人才？在另外一份書面報告的第327頁中總共只用了181個字，可以說是用一個非常簡略的說法打發全臺、甚至是全球都非常關注的問題。我想教育部這種態度其實是值得商議的，完全看不到對於AI人才的重視！更何況，依據教育部所提供的資料，近五年來教育部培育的AI人才數量不進反退，從高峰時期的一年培育二萬多人，到112學年只剩下一萬九千多人，足足少了1,500人。剛剛我聽到部會官員提出是少子化的因素，但我們不能因為少子化的問題就不關注AI人才的培育，這個產業的板塊正在移動，我想少子化只是其中一個原因，該努力的還是要努力。如果有相關的解釋就應該要做研究，並且在書面報告中提出來，但現在並沒有提出改善方案，我想教文委員會所有委員應該是不分朝野也許都難以接受這種說法及作法。","因此，針對專案解凍案的第一案，本席還是要求教育部應該針對五大信賴產業中有關AI人才培育的分工，尤其現在這個內閣又稱作AI內閣，應該要提出更詳細的書面說明，同時也針對教育部AI人才培育的數量不增反減的情況，提出完整的說明及改進的措施，況且現在也不只是不增反減的問題，還可能有供不應求的問題。請教育部就上述議題在一個月內提出完整的書面報告，以上。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝主席關心AI人才的培育！其實高教因為少子化的因素，它的比例事實上是增加的，這是第一個補充說明。第二個，去年9月就開始全國……因為我們擔心除了臺、成、清、交這些研究型大學之外，有許多學校可能沒辦法開出AI的課程，所以我們也在線上開放25個學校的學生修課，這樣學生選課的人數與人才一定會增加，以上補充。如果召委希望有一個更詳細的書面資料，我們會後再提供給主席，以上。"],["主席：好，謝謝部長，一個月內提出完整的書面報告。其他委員還有沒有意見？沒有見的話，第一案准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理解凍專案報告案第二案，頁次在第21頁。請問各位委員有無意見？（無）如果沒有意見的話，第二案准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理解凍專案報告案第三案，頁次在第39頁。請問各位委員有無意見？","柯志恩委員。"],["柯委員志恩：我對這一案有一些想法。因為我們在推展一般教育的部分凍結了20%，而你在解凍報告的第43頁特別提及營養午餐的部分，我要請問教育部，說實在的，關於這一案，雖然書面報告已經完全結束，但是與前面完全都是一樣、像書面報告第十與第十三都是一樣，營養午餐法制化，教育部已經卡關五年了，我真的要利用這個機會問一下，到底什麼時候要送出版本？五年了耶！不要說是這個部分，包括在書面中大家都非常關切的大學法修法，你們已經舉辦了9場座談會及1場公聽會，到底這個又是什麼時候要提出來？都是一樣的狀況，當初說要凍結全都是因為這個理由啊！包括終身教育凍結1,200萬元也是啊！當時我們就是要檢視修正補習及教育法，對不起，部長，已經換了兩位司長，我都還沒有看到院版！這到底是行政效率的問題，還是什麼？不要每次我們在這邊凍，請大家能夠趕快提出來，特別是營養午餐法，到目前為止，都講幾次了！所以我是不是可以利用這個機會，請部長稍微告訴我們一個比較確切的時間？這攸關教育部行政效率問題！"],["彭署長富源：我跟委員報告，午餐法上一次有進行專案討論，那天也有跟委員們報告，目前因為有財劃法以及地方在整體運作面上希望能得到更大的尊重，跟它在規劃上怎麼樣互動來支持，所以剛剛部長也回應說，是不是等財劃法，也許在7、8月會比較明確。目前我們的草案也有準備，但是因為財劃法有一些影響，且地方能不能夠支應這樣一個財政支出，跟我們剛才所提到的幾個面向，像偏鄉地區，像營養師、午秘等等，這些都希望得到最大支持……"],["柯委員志恩：沒問題，聽起來好像是8月底左右，就可以看到？"],["彭署長富源：這個就是等財劃法……"],["柯委員志恩：財劃法要釋憲！"],["彭署長富源：這個如果沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：你怎麼樣說？"],["彭署長富源：我們找地方談的話，會變成標的沒有那麼明確。不過我們很樂意趕快跟地方政府就幾個重要的議題來做處理……"],["柯委員志恩：所以時間點大概會是什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：委員，我們是不是等財劃法的明確性……當然我們也會一直籌備，它一明確，我們就馬上召開會議，大概是這樣。"],["柯委員志恩：其他呢？大學法的修法已經搞了那麼久，學生那麼在乎。"],["廖司長高賢：跟委員報告，剛才您提到的大學法公聽會的舉行，大概是在111年間，這一次在預算審查的時候，針對學生代表的比例、校務會議的運作方式以及教師聘任、停聘的一些相關建議等等，我們也有遵照委員當時的建議，分別諮詢了公私立大學的協進會，我們都有邀請來，也有邀請教師團體……"],["柯委員志恩：司長，沒問題，但我說的是時間點。"],["廖司長高賢：關於時間點的部分，因為那時候答復委員說，蒐集完意見之後，我們會把相關的意見納入條文當中……"],["柯委員志恩：儘快，好不好？"],["廖司長高賢：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝官員的答復。第三案還有沒有其他委員有提問？（無）如果沒有的話，第三案就准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理第四案，頁次在第49頁。請問有沒有委員要提問？請陳秀寳委員。"],["陳委員秀寳：第四案有關於體育署凍結兩千萬的部分，我支持解凍，但針對校園運動教練的部分，其實不只有體育老師，還包含社團的外聘教練、體育班的專業教練等等，這些進入校園的運動教練都應該予以規範及管理。本席支持解凍，但針對校園社團外聘教練之類的管理以及體查，希望體育署可以提供一份書面說明給本席辦公室。我們希望杜絕這些大人對小孩惡意的傷害，對一般社會大眾跟家長來講，這些都應該由體育署或教育部制定出一套可以依循的規則或規範，體罰、霸凌都不應該在校園裡面出現的。以上。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來還有郭昱晴委員、柯志恩委員有意見，待會可以一併回復。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝主席。我們經常會在新聞當中看到類似被體罰或是被霸凌的事件發生，這已經不是幾個個案而已，其實整個教育系統更需要一個比較完整的機制來保護孩子們。對於這個部分，我當然是支持解凍。但是，我們要怎麼樣來培訓老師讓他能夠有正向的輔導能力，同時在他領導的整個社團當中，有一個完善的申訴機制？也就是讓每一個學生在遇到不公平對待的時候，還是有地方、有人可以幫他，讓他有求助的管道。如果這個預算沒辦法解凍，有些制度也許我們就真的沒辦法做到，就算這個沒辦法做到，我們也不能說這個做不全，所以一定要有一個足夠的資源來對待我們的孩子，在保障孩子他們身心上一個安全的環境，其實這個部分不應該被延後。針對陳秀寳委員剛剛所講的，我們要怎麼樣提供一個更友善的環境，就這個部分請提出一個比較完整的計畫跟報告。以上。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員，接下來請柯志恩委員。"],["柯委員志恩：第四案跟第五案都是體育署的，其實都一樣，我還是要強調署長剛剛回應我的，也就是各地方，對運動教練大多是用約聘的方式聘用，署長特別說了這是給地方的一種彈性。但我還是要說，像2017年在世大運標槍比賽摘金的鄭兆村，大家都知道他目前在母校桃園的瑞源國中任教；還有向俊賢是我們全國跳高紀錄保持人，現也在國訓中心，他們全都是約聘。你說這是彈性，可是我覺得你怎麼可以把這樣一個跳高人才安置在國訓中心裡面，還是用約聘的方式？國訓中心是體育署可以主導的，但他現在還是約聘人員，根本就是上層帶頭做起！明明已經法制化了，目的就是希望能夠更有保障，結果你們什麼都用約聘，他們年老的時候怎麼辦？對這部分，我覺得教育部還是要拿出更決斷的態度，否則我們即便將它法制化，法都是白修的！"],["主席：請署長說明。"],["鄭署長世忠：針對陳秀寳委員及郭昱晴委員所提到的，目前國教署已經有滿完整的制度，包括申訴、通報、教育等等的機制，體育署也會協同國教署對這個漏洞再檢討，讓它更完善，我們會再來努力。至於柯志恩委員提問的部分，其實我們也非常希望讓我們的選手能夠有全職的待遇，我們接下來會再加強督導縣市政府，同時也會來做評比，看看各個縣市政府首長對學校專任運動教練的支持，是不是能夠正面回應選手的需求，謝謝委員。"],["主席：次長要不要說明一下？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們大概十幾年前就修了專任運動教練的聘任，若符合資格，是可以比照教師占員額編制，但要學校有開缺，地方政府支持，所以我也跟署長說，像鄭兆村這樣的選手在桃園的國中當教練，我們會去跟桃園地方政府協調一下。"],["柯委員志恩：國訓中心呢？向俊賢在國訓中心。"],["鄭署長世忠：國訓中心有缺啊！"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，他還是約聘僱啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：基本上沒有犯什麼錯都會一直聘下去的啦！"],["柯委員志恩：但約聘僱就沒有退休金，這就是為什麼很多都要用約聘僱。"],["鄭署長世忠：有勞退，他有加入勞保。"],["柯委員志恩：為什麼不能給人家一個全職full time？"],["鄭署長世忠：他是full time，沒有錯啊！"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，他還是約聘僱！"],["鄭署長世忠：他只是不是公務人員而已！"],["柯委員志恩：對，但約聘僱這點對很多人來說，就是沒有保障，還是差滿多的嘛！國訓中心總是體育署可以來負責的吧。"],["鄭署長世忠：他是全職人員，沒有錯！"],["柯委員志恩：我當然知道，但身分上就是不一樣。"],["鄭署長世忠：我們會跟縣市政府積極協調，像他是屬於臺中，我們會跟臺中市積極協調。"],["柯委員志恩：麻煩一下好不好？榮耀之後，還是要給人家一個餘生的保障，這是很重要的。"],["主席：我也請教一下，約聘僱是一年一約，還是它是一個長約？照你們的講法，好像約聘僱跟正職沒有差別？所以他是不是一年一約？是一年一約嘛！跟正職人員還是有差別啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：正職人員是兩年一約。"],["主席：具體一點，一年跟兩年一樣，還是不一樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：其實沒有犯錯，就是一直聘下去。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有。學校聘任何老師，像目前的這些教授，所謂的一年一聘、兩年一聘，跟全職到退休，保障是不一樣！"],["鄭署長世忠：委員，我想他們當然會期待留在公職，我會積極協調縣市政府來幫忙，因為也要縣市政府開缺，好不好？"],["主席：希望這個部分可以再研議一下。第四案還有沒有委員有意見？（無）沒有，第四案准予動友，提報院會。","接下來處理第五案，第五案的頁次在第57頁。各位委員有無意見？請劉書彬委員。"],["劉委員書彬：謝謝主席。第五案體育署補助中華民國迷你足球協會一項，在113年被踢爆有這樣子的溢領，甚至包括它的會計師查核並不清楚，在你們的報告當中也提到，它有再繳回補助款103萬等等。你們後來的回應是說，今年3月26日已經將本案移送到地檢署，還有函請內政部評估是否依照人民團體法第五十八條的規定去處理迷你足球協會有沒有功能不彰的情況，現在已經過了兩個月，所以想要請問現在地檢署的進度是怎麼樣？第二個問題是，對於內政部去評估這部分，你們有後續的最終結果嗎？甚至你們體育署未來在做補助，涉及到這次的解凍案500萬元的時候，依照你們本身內部評估，它是不是適合再繼續作為你們補助的標的？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我想這個案子黃國昌委員一直很關心，其實體育署過去這一年來，我們都是按照黃委員的要求，有去做所有該執行的執行面，針對迷你足球協會進入地檢署司法我們就沒辦法去干涉，這部分地檢署應該已經在處理當中。","至於人民團體法的部分，內政部目前已經有發函給迷你足球協會請它限期改善，意思就是如果7月底以前沒有限期改善，內政部會做進一步的處理，通常按照我們過去的經驗，有可能會撤換理事長或是解散等等之類的處置，但是它並沒有講，我想這部分還是由內政部在積極處理當中。"],["劉委員書彬：那教育部……"],["鄭署長世忠：我們的部分，目前會計師的查核已經完成，我們也把報告都交給黃委員，後面追繳的部分因為目前已經發函，接下來會由執行署這邊來處理，我們都按照公部門的節奏一步一步在處理當中，我們就是按照規定來處理。"],["劉委員書彬：好，本辦也會繼續追蹤貴署這邊的處理情形。"],["鄭署長世忠：當然，我們一切都是依法行政，沒有問題。"],["劉委員書彬：好，OK。"],["主席：好，謝謝官員的回復。","第五案，還有沒有委員有意見？沒有意見的話，第五案准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理第六案，第六案的頁次在第65頁，請問委員有無意見？"],["林委員宜瑾：沒有！"],["柯委員志恩：你是怎樣？要趕快去吃飯是吧？"],["主席：大家都很支持教育部啦！他們資料也都送來了，但我還是再確認一下，請問各位委員有無意見？"],["陳委員秀寳：沒有。"],["主席：如果沒有意見的話，第六案就准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理第七案，頁次在第83頁，請問各位委員有無意見？"],["陳委員秀寳：沒有。"],["主席：第七案各位委員也沒有意見。好，我們處理……"],["柯委員志恩：沒意見、沒意見。"],["主席：現在已經到第八案了。"],["林委員宜瑾：第七、八、九案都一樣，都是……"],["主席：我們處理第七、八、九案，第七、八、九案各位委員有無意見？"],["陳委員秀寳：沒有。"],["林委員宜瑾：沒有。"],["主席：沒有意見，我們准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理第十案，頁次在139頁，請問各位委員有無意見？我們讓委員翻閱一下，我看到有些委員還在翻閱。如果確認沒有意見的話，第十案准予動支，提報院會。","接下來處理第十一案，頁次在第155頁，請問各位委員有無意見？請范雲委員發言，然後請郭昱晴委員發言。"],["范委員雲：基本上我是支持第十一案解凍，但是早上的報告事項我想在這邊一併對教育部提出一些要求。第一個，報告事項第十案關於高教的部分，剛剛柯志恩委員有問大學法，其實我也有問啦！因為最早，剛剛講的大學法公聽會其實是我們教文委員會自己辦的，如果沒有記錯的話，當時教育部的承諾好像是5月會給我們，所以想先問一下教育部那個草案的進度。","另外，也是關於第十案，一樣是高教，我要求私校產學合作涉及土地建物使用的部分應該要比照國有財產，有最低的租金跟利用費的規定，不知道教育部何時會正式公告？因為教育部說他們會處理，但還是應該有個公告，讓產學合作有一個更公平公開的規定。","再來，也是第十案，也是與高教有關的，就是大學生的居住困境，我希望高教司與內政部關於社會住宅的部分有一些合作，是不是一個月之內給我辦公室一個比較明確的進度？因為你們好像沒有在回應裡面寫到這一點。","另外，跟國教有關的是報告事項第十八案，關於高中多元選修教師鐘點費，目前我們接到很多陳情，所謂108課綱希望有選修課，有素養，可是老師們反映說開課很辛苦，都沒有一點鼓勵，所以我希望你們考慮一下，針對多元選修課，是不是能夠在課程不足的地方，譬如說能有一些鐘點費的鼓勵？如果到穩定之後，也許這個機制就不需要了，因為我自己是大學老師，我知道開新課很累，最好是開舊課，然後加一點新的就好，所以這部分應該要鼓勵，這是報告事項第十八案。","報告事項第十八案關於代理教師敘薪法規，這部分已經跟教育部溝通很多次，可是現在有學校公布114年招聘簡章的時候，還是寫不採計年資耶！明明大法官已經釋憲了，怎麼在你們要要求前，學校公布114年招聘簡章，這樣不是會讓第一線的代理教師憂慮、擔心他們不適用嗎？這部分教育部是不是也能儘快處理？還有其他的小項，我再跟你們溝通，好不好？這幾項是不是能夠回應我一下？謝謝。"],["楊司長玉惠：我先回應委員關心的產學合作，這個辦法我們法規會已經通過了，接下來的程序要提部務會議，部務會議通過就會公告實施了，所以進度會很快。"],["范委員雲：很快是3個月內還是1個月內？"],["楊司長玉惠：我們的部務會議每兩個禮拜開一次，所以下次的部務會議可以提。"],["范委員雲：好，那公告後再給我辦公室一個報告。"],["楊司長玉惠：好，再提供給委員。"],["廖司長高賢：剛才委員垂詢有關於社會住宅跟內政部的部分，我們在一個月內會提供相關書面報告給委員做參考。"],["范委員雲：好。"],["廖司長高賢：但是大學法的修法，因為委員當時也有提示我們要與各個利害關係人來溝通，其實我們也有跟學生代表，但是近期對於學生代表在邀請上面有一些困難，因為我們邀請了他們沒有出席，所以針對學生代表這部分，我會另外召開會議跟他們座談，彙整他們的意見。","針對校務會議還有教師的部分，我們也有分別跟教師團體的代表開過會，也在彙整意見當中，針對委員在預算審查時期所詢問的幾個重點，我們會把它修入到大學法的辦法當中。當時雖然有跟委員講說在情況比較好的狀況下，可能可以馬上完成，可是有一些條文有一些意見需要彙整，可能要請委員再給我們一些時間來彙整意見。"],["范委員雲：你們有沒有預計什麼時候會提出草案？"],["廖司長高賢：我們會儘快，因為確實現在有些意見，比如委員提到的四分之一學生代表，有些學校認為執行有困難，所以可能還要一些時間來凝聚共識，以上。"],["范委員雲：還是要有一個時間吧？因為你們之前講的是5月底嘛！"],["廖司長高賢：對，是，我們儘快在處理了，我們都有按照時程陸續在開會當中。"],["范委員雲：所以不能夠說一個時間？因為你一個時間跳票後，應該要說一個新時間吧！"],["柯委員志恩：對啊！應該要說一個時間。"],["廖司長高賢：委員，是不是容許我們在3個月內將意見完成？"],["范委員雲：好，3個月，就是8月底，好不好？"],["廖司長高賢：好，是，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：開議前。"],["廖司長高賢：好，謝謝。"],["彭署長富源：多元選修鐘點費的部分，之前我們就已經有行文給所有學校，高教這邊也同意，我們再把那個公文給委員。"],["范委員雲：OK。"],["彭署長富源：第二點是有關提敘的部分，6月份就會修法完成，辦法完成之後各校都會落實。現在委員看到的部分，我們再來跟他溝通，馬上就可以落實了，謝謝。"],["主席：請郭昱晴委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：第十一案我當然希望能夠解凍，青年海外圓夢計畫其實是現在非常重要的一個對外政策，這個計畫已經成功吸引將近4,000名的青年參與，這部分的解凍一定要有後續的培訓、輔導還有國際交流的活動，才能再繼續地進行，在此表達一下我的立場跟意見。我想支持青年能夠跨國，能夠更進一步地跟世界交流，其實是我們一直希望的，以上。"],["主席：請范雲委員。"],["范委員雲：抱歉，我剛剛漏掉一案，關於大家都發現性平的調查人才不足的部分，我有一個預算案，也是在書面報告裡面。關於CEDAW的委員要求教育部能夠補助性別或婦女學程設置，我知道教育部現在是有補助全國3所性別的研究所，可是如果沒有研究所的婦女研究學程，大學部的這部分我覺得也很重要，如果你們能夠直接讓這些公私立大學自己就支持這個政策是最好的，如果沒有的話，是不是能夠考慮遵照CEDAW委員的要求？因為我們有這麼多性平調查，如果沒有足夠的專業人才更深入地研究，就會出現一切合法可是調查不夠專業的問題，好不好？這部分也請你們考慮之後，再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎？"],["廖司長高賢：沒問題。"],["主席：好，謝謝范雲委員。各位委員還有無其他意見？如果沒有意見，第十一案就准予動支，提報院會。","解凍案共11案審查完竣，均准予動支，提報院會。","接著繼續進行質詢，請陳培瑜委員質詢，質詢時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}