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116.28, \"end\": 116.64, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 116.64, \"end\": 117.161, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"搞\", \"start\": 117.161, \"end\": 117.321, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 117.321, \"end\": 117.421, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 117.421, \"end\": 117.622, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 117.622, \"end\": 118.002, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 118.002, \"end\": 118.263, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 118.263, \"end\": 118.483, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 118.483, \"end\": 118.603, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 118.603, \"end\": 118.703, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 118.703, \"end\": 119.104, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 119.104, \"end\": 119.244, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 119.244, \"end\": 119.344, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 119.344, \"end\": 119.504, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 119.504, \"end\": 119.624, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 119.624, \"end\": 119.644, \"score\": 0.993}]}, {\"start\": 120.891, \"end\": 148.817, \"text\": \"因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 120.891, \"end\": 121.151, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 121.151, \"end\": 121.251, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 121.251, \"end\": 121.531, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 121.531, \"end\": 121.691, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 121.691, \"end\": 121.951, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 121.951, \"end\": 122.531, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 122.531, \"end\": 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441.938, \"end\": 441.958, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 441.958, \"end\": 442.218, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 442.218, \"end\": 442.238, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,499 --> 00:00:30,649\n謝謝那我們請那個各支會的李主任請李主任還有主計處的廖專委委員長委員午安好午安好\n\n2\n00:00:35,513 --> 00:00:45,192\n好謝謝那我們先請到李主任你們今天的報告有提出來就是說你們是相當於三個獨立的三級的獨立機關那我想請問一下\n\n3\n00:00:46,658 --> 00:01:07,475\n草案我看到了草案第三條說到就是採合議制就是委員總共五到七人可是呢主委副主委專委兩人都是院長指派那這樣變成是五分之四還是六分之四還是七分之四還有一半都是院長指派的人那這樣子要怎麼樣獨立我想請教主委欸主任\n\n4\n00:01:08,763 --> 00:01:20,850\n好跟委員報告就是目前現階段他是依照我們組織法所任命之後然後獨立去好那我就所以我跟你講第一個我的疑問就是\n\n5\n00:01:21,909 --> 00:01:47,416\n你裡面四個人是院長指派那你的委員才五到七人你等於是過半都是院長指派但是你只要過半就可以開罰那這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎因為都是執行院長的意見啊主任是跟委員報告就是目前當然現階段整個獨立機關的這樣的一個設置在河安跟\n\n6\n00:01:48,069 --> 00:01:59,644\n我們的運輸安全也是有這樣的一個設置其實我們目前先用河岸會的那個設計只是做我們參考的那你這樣等於我還是聽的搞不清楚但你還是沒有講到我的答案\n\n7\n00:02:00,891 --> 00:02:28,817\n因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關\n\n8\n00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:50,990\n目前因為三級機關我們也參考了核安會跟我們的運安會那因為本身組織法也去也有強調這一點他必須要本於他自己的一個依照法律要獨立行使職權我就說嘛我就還是回到最基本問題你一直告訴我你是獨立行使\n\n9\n00:02:52,330 --> 00:03:20,119\n職權的機關但是我看到的是過半不管你採五到七人的哪一個人數過半都是院長所指定的人這就是我的問題那我再請教一下你們說我分三個區塊第一個區塊是公務機關優先各自全面監管第二個是非公務機關那第三個是目的事業主管機關的非公務機關那我想請教第一個公務機關的部分那如果以後法院他的裁判書裡面如果有\n\n10\n00:03:20,839 --> 00:03:44,697\n那個不小心揭露一些或是故意揭露一些合一性侵等等的個資呢你們要怎麼裁法你要對法官開法嗎還是對機關開法那部分有關於法院因為本身在憲法就已經有保障說那個法院在行使他的那個審判的話是獨立行使所以那部分的話還是要按照現行的規定所以法院如果違反你們就無從處理嗎\n\n11\n00:03:45,718 --> 00:04:13,721\n因為這個在國外包含在歐盟他們也是直接有規定獨立專人機關不可以去涉入那個審判當然沒關係我想說意思就是沒有辦法處理好那這是答案然後再來我請問我剛剛講第三個那如果是中華電信然後那個它是NCC管以後歸你們管還有銀行的各支這些本來是金管會管現在改成歸你們管嗎那我想請教一下那像這樣子的話那以後你們的人力足夠嗎\n\n12\n00:04:15,712 --> 00:04:35,088\n跟委員報告目前現在我們先設計未來在作用法部分設計一個六年的條款會分階段兩年兩年回收然後同時再去評估我們現有的人力這個部分還要再跟人工因為這個量很大很驚人我在這邊先跟你說明一下是是是謝謝委員這量很大到底你有沒有辦法吃得下來是你們第一個要考量的問題謝謝委員\n\n13\n00:04:35,708 --> 00:04:44,802\n然後再來就是說我看到你們說歸管的過渡期可是草案都沒有提到耶那這樣子的話那像我剛剛講到中華電信各家銀行有違反個資的問題\n\n14\n00:04:47,165 --> 00:05:06,247\n那個裁罰的權責機關是誰?訴願的機關又是誰?你可以跟我講嗎?好跟委員報告目前現在在作用法第51條之一是規定在分管的時間的時候還是由原分管的中央目的層面來進行裁罰但是他裁罰做了處分的話他的訴願不會再往其他地方跑是直接到我們這邊\n\n15\n00:05:07,328 --> 00:05:26,861\n那還蠻特別的耶這跟溯源法的規定不一樣所以你們用特別規定來處理對直接到我們這邊來所以我們是用這個那這個要宣導明確喔因為人民對於溯源的程序他的理解會原本溯源法的規範作用法有明確規定那再來喔最後我請教一個問題因為我看到你們啊\n\n16\n00:05:27,742 --> 00:05:56,838\n草案的第10條又要大量聘用約聘人員50人啊那我想說哇又是約聘因為其實我很擔心我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘因為約聘它就不是經由正常的公務員文官任用的方式不是一般那種考試進來的嘛那約聘到最後會不會又變成是酬庸性質這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分那我想請問一下主任這麼大量的約聘人數那以後會不會又變成是酬庸呢\n\n17\n00:05:58,127 --> 00:06:25,010\n跟委員報告不會啦因為我們上限是控制在50人齊二就是因為目前現在因為監管的事業多元化尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技的發展還有對於說集合有些可能這些實務界我們公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員所以我們還是有這樣的一個需求好沒有我就說我的意見還是這個啦約聘會不會變成酬庸我想不管是哪一個政黨只要立委\n\n18\n00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:44,490\n都會在意這件事情你們那個監督議員化我不是說完全反對但監督議員化就會變成是事權的變成統一了那事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題就是將來我們每個人都會擔心的就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整數一級用\n\n19\n00:06:45,091 --> 00:07:06,456\n不要說整數不同黨啦同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系我不知道啦我也沒有說哪一個政黨啦會不會變成這樣這就是我認為監督議員化可能產生的副作用主任\n\n20\n00:07:07,785 --> 00:07:22,238\n我相信你會有你的說法啦那我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎就是一個委員會的成立是要保護國人不是拿來做政治鬥爭的好不好好謝謝我們吳宗憲委員的詢談\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13499\t30649\t謝謝那我們請那個各支會的李主任請李主任還有主計處的廖專委委員長 委員午安好 午安好\n35513\t45192\t好 謝謝那我們先請到李主任你們今天的報告有提出來就是說你們是相當於三個獨立的三級的獨立機關那我想請問一下\n46658\t67475\t草案我看到了草案第三條說到就是採合議制就是委員總共五到七人可是呢主委副主委專委兩人都是院長指派那這樣變成是五分之四還是六分之四還是七分之四還有一半都是院長指派的人那這樣子要怎麼樣獨立我想請教主委 欸主任\n68763\t80850\t好跟委員報告就是目前現階段他是依照我們組織法所任命之後然後獨立去好那我就所以我跟你講第一個我的疑問就是\n81909\t107416\t你裡面四個人是院長指派那你的委員才五到七人你等於是過半都是院長指派但是你只要過半就可以開罰那這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎因為都是執行院長的意見啊主任是跟委員報告就是目前當然現階段整個獨立機關的這樣的一個設置在河安跟\n108069\t119644\t我們的運輸安全也是有這樣的一個設置其實我們目前先用河岸會的那個設計只是做我們參考的那你這樣等於我還是聽的搞不清楚但你還是沒有講到我的答案\n120891\t148817\t因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關\n151139\t170990\t目前因為三級機關我們也參考了核安會跟我們的運安會那因為本身組織法也去也有強調這一點他必須要本於他自己的一個依照法律要獨立行使職權我就說嘛我就還是回到最基本問題你一直告訴我你是獨立行使\n172330\t200119\t職權的機關但是我看到的是過半不管你採五到七人的哪一個人數過半都是院長所指定的人這就是我的問題那我再請教一下你們說我分三個區塊第一個區塊是公務機關優先各自全面監管第二個是非公務機關那第三個是目的事業主管機關的非公務機關那我想請教第一個公務機關的部分那如果以後法院他的裁判書裡面如果有\n200839\t224697\t那個不小心揭露一些 或是故意揭露一些合一性侵等等的個資呢 你們要怎麼裁法你要對法官開法嗎 還是對機關開法那部分有關於法院 因為本身在憲法就已經有保障說那個法院在行使他的那個審判的話是獨立行使所以那部分的話還是要按照現行的規定所以法院如果違反你們就無從處理嗎\n225718\t253721\t因為這個在國外包含在歐盟他們也是直接有規定獨立專人機關不可以去涉入那個審判當然沒關係我想說意思就是沒有辦法處理好那這是答案然後再來我請問我剛剛講第三個那如果是中華電信然後那個它是NCC管以後歸你們管還有銀行的各支這些本來是金管會管現在改成歸你們管嗎那我想請教一下那像這樣子的話那以後你們的人力足夠嗎\n255712\t275088\t跟委員報告目前現在我們先設計未來在作用法部分設計一個六年的條款會分階段兩年兩年回收然後同時再去評估我們現有的人力這個部分還要再跟人工因為這個量很大很驚人我在這邊先跟你說明一下是是是謝謝委員這量很大到底你有沒有辦法吃得下來是你們第一個要考量的問題謝謝委員\n275708\t284802\t然後再來就是說我看到你們說歸管的過渡期可是草案都沒有提到耶那這樣子的話那像我剛剛講到中華電信各家銀行有違反個資的問題\n287165\t306247\t那個裁罰的權責機關是誰?訴願的機關又是誰?你可以跟我講嗎?好 跟委員報告目前現在在作用法第51條之一是規定在分管的時間的時候還是由原分管的中央目的層面來進行裁罰但是他裁罰做了處分的話他的訴願不會再往其他地方跑是直接到我們這邊\n307328\t326861\t那還蠻特別的耶 這跟溯源法的規定不一樣所以你們用特別規定來處理對 直接到我們這邊來所以我們是用這個那這個要宣導明確喔因為人民對於溯源的程序他的理解會原本溯源法的規範作用法有明確規定那再來喔 最後我請教一個問題因為我看到你們啊\n327742\t356838\t草案的第10條又要大量聘用約聘人員50人啊那我想說哇 又是約聘因為其實我很擔心 我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘因為約聘它就不是經由正常的公務員文官任用的方式不是一般那種考試進來的嘛那約聘到最後會不會又變成是酬庸性質這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分那我想請問一下主任這麼大量的約聘人數 那以後會不會又變成是酬庸呢\n358127\t385010\t跟委員報告 不會啦 因為我們上限是控制在50人齊二就是因為目前現在因為監管的事業多元化尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技的發展還有對於說集合有些可能這些實務界我們公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員所以我們還是有這樣的一個需求好 沒有 我就說我的意見還是這個啦 約聘會不會變成酬庸 我想不管是哪一個政黨 只要立委\n385450\t404490\t都會在意這件事情你們那個監督議員化我不是說完全反對但監督議員化就會變成是事權的變成統一了那事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題就是將來我們每個人都會擔心的就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整數一級用\n405091\t426456\t不要說整數不同黨啦同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系我不知道啦我也沒有說哪一個政黨啦會不會變成這樣這就是我認為監督議員化可能產生的副作用主任\n427785\t442238\t我相信你會有你的說法啦那我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎就是一個委員會的成立是要保護國人不是拿來做政治鬥爭的好不好好謝謝我們吳宗憲委員的詢談\n","txt":"謝謝那我們請那個各支會的李主任請李主任還有主計處的廖專委委員長 委員午安好 午安好\n好 謝謝那我們先請到李主任你們今天的報告有提出來就是說你們是相當於三個獨立的三級的獨立機關那我想請問一下\n草案我看到了草案第三條說到就是採合議制就是委員總共五到七人可是呢主委副主委專委兩人都是院長指派那這樣變成是五分之四還是六分之四還是七分之四還有一半都是院長指派的人那這樣子要怎麼樣獨立我想請教主委 欸主任\n好跟委員報告就是目前現階段他是依照我們組織法所任命之後然後獨立去好那我就所以我跟你講第一個我的疑問就是\n你裡面四個人是院長指派那你的委員才五到七人你等於是過半都是院長指派但是你只要過半就可以開罰那這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎因為都是執行院長的意見啊主任是跟委員報告就是目前當然現階段整個獨立機關的這樣的一個設置在河安跟\n我們的運輸安全也是有這樣的一個設置其實我們目前先用河岸會的那個設計只是做我們參考的那你這樣等於我還是聽的搞不清楚但你還是沒有講到我的答案\n因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關\n目前因為三級機關我們也參考了核安會跟我們的運安會那因為本身組織法也去也有強調這一點他必須要本於他自己的一個依照法律要獨立行使職權我就說嘛我就還是回到最基本問題你一直告訴我你是獨立行使\n職權的機關但是我看到的是過半不管你採五到七人的哪一個人數過半都是院長所指定的人這就是我的問題那我再請教一下你們說我分三個區塊第一個區塊是公務機關優先各自全面監管第二個是非公務機關那第三個是目的事業主管機關的非公務機關那我想請教第一個公務機關的部分那如果以後法院他的裁判書裡面如果有\n那個不小心揭露一些 或是故意揭露一些合一性侵等等的個資呢 你們要怎麼裁法你要對法官開法嗎 還是對機關開法那部分有關於法院 因為本身在憲法就已經有保障說那個法院在行使他的那個審判的話是獨立行使所以那部分的話還是要按照現行的規定所以法院如果違反你們就無從處理嗎\n因為這個在國外包含在歐盟他們也是直接有規定獨立專人機關不可以去涉入那個審判當然沒關係我想說意思就是沒有辦法處理好那這是答案然後再來我請問我剛剛講第三個那如果是中華電信然後那個它是NCC管以後歸你們管還有銀行的各支這些本來是金管會管現在改成歸你們管嗎那我想請教一下那像這樣子的話那以後你們的人力足夠嗎\n跟委員報告目前現在我們先設計未來在作用法部分設計一個六年的條款會分階段兩年兩年回收然後同時再去評估我們現有的人力這個部分還要再跟人工因為這個量很大很驚人我在這邊先跟你說明一下是是是謝謝委員這量很大到底你有沒有辦法吃得下來是你們第一個要考量的問題謝謝委員\n然後再來就是說我看到你們說歸管的過渡期可是草案都沒有提到耶那這樣子的話那像我剛剛講到中華電信各家銀行有違反個資的問題\n那個裁罰的權責機關是誰?訴願的機關又是誰?你可以跟我講嗎?好 跟委員報告目前現在在作用法第51條之一是規定在分管的時間的時候還是由原分管的中央目的層面來進行裁罰但是他裁罰做了處分的話他的訴願不會再往其他地方跑是直接到我們這邊\n那還蠻特別的耶 這跟溯源法的規定不一樣所以你們用特別規定來處理對 直接到我們這邊來所以我們是用這個那這個要宣導明確喔因為人民對於溯源的程序他的理解會原本溯源法的規範作用法有明確規定那再來喔 最後我請教一個問題因為我看到你們啊\n草案的第10條又要大量聘用約聘人員50人啊那我想說哇 又是約聘因為其實我很擔心 我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘因為約聘它就不是經由正常的公務員文官任用的方式不是一般那種考試進來的嘛那約聘到最後會不會又變成是酬庸性質這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分那我想請問一下主任這麼大量的約聘人數 那以後會不會又變成是酬庸呢\n跟委員報告 不會啦 因為我們上限是控制在50人齊二就是因為目前現在因為監管的事業多元化尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技的發展還有對於說集合有些可能這些實務界我們公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員所以我們還是有這樣的一個需求好 沒有 我就說我的意見還是這個啦 約聘會不會變成酬庸 我想不管是哪一個政黨 只要立委\n都會在意這件事情你們那個監督議員化我不是說完全反對但監督議員化就會變成是事權的變成統一了那事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題就是將來我們每個人都會擔心的就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整數一級用\n不要說整數不同黨啦同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系我不知道啦我也沒有說哪一個政黨啦會不會變成這樣這就是我認為監督議員化可能產生的副作用主任\n我相信你會有你的說法啦那我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎就是一個委員會的成立是要保護國人不是拿來做政治鬥爭的好不好好謝謝我們吳宗憲委員的詢談\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.499 --> 00:30.649\n謝謝那我們請那個各支會的李主任請李主任還有主計處的廖專委委員長委員午安好午安好\n\n00:35.513 --> 00:45.192\n好謝謝那我們先請到李主任你們今天的報告有提出來就是說你們是相當於三個獨立的三級的獨立機關那我想請問一下\n\n00:46.658 --> 01:07.475\n草案我看到了草案第三條說到就是採合議制就是委員總共五到七人可是呢主委副主委專委兩人都是院長指派那這樣變成是五分之四還是六分之四還是七分之四還有一半都是院長指派的人那這樣子要怎麼樣獨立我想請教主委欸主任\n\n01:08.763 --> 01:20.850\n好跟委員報告就是目前現階段他是依照我們組織法所任命之後然後獨立去好那我就所以我跟你講第一個我的疑問就是\n\n01:21.909 --> 01:47.416\n你裡面四個人是院長指派那你的委員才五到七人你等於是過半都是院長指派但是你只要過半就可以開罰那這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎因為都是執行院長的意見啊主任是跟委員報告就是目前當然現階段整個獨立機關的這樣的一個設置在河安跟\n\n01:48.069 --> 01:59.644\n我們的運輸安全也是有這樣的一個設置其實我們目前先用河岸會的那個設計只是做我們參考的那你這樣等於我還是聽的搞不清楚但你還是沒有講到我的答案\n\n02:00.891 --> 02:28.817\n因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關\n\n02:31.139 --> 02:50.990\n目前因為三級機關我們也參考了核安會跟我們的運安會那因為本身組織法也去也有強調這一點他必須要本於他自己的一個依照法律要獨立行使職權我就說嘛我就還是回到最基本問題你一直告訴我你是獨立行使\n\n02:52.330 --> 03:20.119\n職權的機關但是我看到的是過半不管你採五到七人的哪一個人數過半都是院長所指定的人這就是我的問題那我再請教一下你們說我分三個區塊第一個區塊是公務機關優先各自全面監管第二個是非公務機關那第三個是目的事業主管機關的非公務機關那我想請教第一個公務機關的部分那如果以後法院他的裁判書裡面如果有\n\n03:20.839 --> 03:44.697\n那個不小心揭露一些或是故意揭露一些合一性侵等等的個資呢你們要怎麼裁法你要對法官開法嗎還是對機關開法那部分有關於法院因為本身在憲法就已經有保障說那個法院在行使他的那個審判的話是獨立行使所以那部分的話還是要按照現行的規定所以法院如果違反你們就無從處理嗎\n\n03:45.718 --> 04:13.721\n因為這個在國外包含在歐盟他們也是直接有規定獨立專人機關不可以去涉入那個審判當然沒關係我想說意思就是沒有辦法處理好那這是答案然後再來我請問我剛剛講第三個那如果是中華電信然後那個它是NCC管以後歸你們管還有銀行的各支這些本來是金管會管現在改成歸你們管嗎那我想請教一下那像這樣子的話那以後你們的人力足夠嗎\n\n04:15.712 --> 04:35.088\n跟委員報告目前現在我們先設計未來在作用法部分設計一個六年的條款會分階段兩年兩年回收然後同時再去評估我們現有的人力這個部分還要再跟人工因為這個量很大很驚人我在這邊先跟你說明一下是是是謝謝委員這量很大到底你有沒有辦法吃得下來是你們第一個要考量的問題謝謝委員\n\n04:35.708 --> 04:44.802\n然後再來就是說我看到你們說歸管的過渡期可是草案都沒有提到耶那這樣子的話那像我剛剛講到中華電信各家銀行有違反個資的問題\n\n04:47.165 --> 05:06.247\n那個裁罰的權責機關是誰?訴願的機關又是誰?你可以跟我講嗎?好跟委員報告目前現在在作用法第51條之一是規定在分管的時間的時候還是由原分管的中央目的層面來進行裁罰但是他裁罰做了處分的話他的訴願不會再往其他地方跑是直接到我們這邊\n\n05:07.328 --> 05:26.861\n那還蠻特別的耶這跟溯源法的規定不一樣所以你們用特別規定來處理對直接到我們這邊來所以我們是用這個那這個要宣導明確喔因為人民對於溯源的程序他的理解會原本溯源法的規範作用法有明確規定那再來喔最後我請教一個問題因為我看到你們啊\n\n05:27.742 --> 05:56.838\n草案的第10條又要大量聘用約聘人員50人啊那我想說哇又是約聘因為其實我很擔心我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘因為約聘它就不是經由正常的公務員文官任用的方式不是一般那種考試進來的嘛那約聘到最後會不會又變成是酬庸性質這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分那我想請問一下主任這麼大量的約聘人數那以後會不會又變成是酬庸呢\n\n05:58.127 --> 06:25.010\n跟委員報告不會啦因為我們上限是控制在50人齊二就是因為目前現在因為監管的事業多元化尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技的發展還有對於說集合有些可能這些實務界我們公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員所以我們還是有這樣的一個需求好沒有我就說我的意見還是這個啦約聘會不會變成酬庸我想不管是哪一個政黨只要立委\n\n06:25.450 --> 06:44.490\n都會在意這件事情你們那個監督議員化我不是說完全反對但監督議員化就會變成是事權的變成統一了那事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題就是將來我們每個人都會擔心的就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整數一級用\n\n06:45.091 --> 07:06.456\n不要說整數不同黨啦同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系我不知道啦我也沒有說哪一個政黨啦會不會變成這樣這就是我認為監督議員化可能產生的副作用主任\n\n07:07.785 --> 07:22.238\n我相信你會有你的說法啦那我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎就是一個委員會的成立是要保護國人不是拿來做政治鬥爭的好不好好謝謝我們吳宗憲委員的詢談\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.499,"end":30.649,"text":"謝謝那我們請那個各支會的李主任請李主任還有主計處的廖專委委員長 委員午安好 午安好"},{"start":35.513,"end":45.192,"text":"好 謝謝那我們先請到李主任你們今天的報告有提出來就是說你們是相當於三個獨立的三級的獨立機關那我想請問一下"},{"start":46.658,"end":67.475,"text":"草案我看到了草案第三條說到就是採合議制就是委員總共五到七人可是呢主委副主委專委兩人都是院長指派那這樣變成是五分之四還是六分之四還是七分之四還有一半都是院長指派的人那這樣子要怎麼樣獨立我想請教主委 欸主任"},{"start":68.763,"end":80.85,"text":"好跟委員報告就是目前現階段他是依照我們組織法所任命之後然後獨立去好那我就所以我跟你講第一個我的疑問就是"},{"start":81.909,"end":107.416,"text":"你裡面四個人是院長指派那你的委員才五到七人你等於是過半都是院長指派但是你只要過半就可以開罰那這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎因為都是執行院長的意見啊主任是跟委員報告就是目前當然現階段整個獨立機關的這樣的一個設置在河安跟"},{"start":108.069,"end":119.644,"text":"我們的運輸安全也是有這樣的一個設置其實我們目前先用河岸會的那個設計只是做我們參考的那你這樣等於我還是聽的搞不清楚但你還是沒有講到我的答案"},{"start":120.891,"end":148.817,"text":"因為我的題目啦就說有一半的人都是院長指派的人啦那這個要怎麼樣讓他能夠行政獨立這是我第一個意見那尤其是我認為目前我國的NCC還有中選會其實爭議都蠻多的那今天我們要讓你成立一個新的那個委員會但是在裡面成員的指派又都是院長可以指派超過半數的人那他要怎麼樣獨立這是我第一個問題那你剛剛說你們是接近哪個獨立機關"},{"start":151.139,"end":170.99,"text":"目前因為三級機關我們也參考了核安會跟我們的運安會那因為本身組織法也去也有強調這一點他必須要本於他自己的一個依照法律要獨立行使職權我就說嘛我就還是回到最基本問題你一直告訴我你是獨立行使"},{"start":172.33,"end":200.119,"text":"職權的機關但是我看到的是過半不管你採五到七人的哪一個人數過半都是院長所指定的人這就是我的問題那我再請教一下你們說我分三個區塊第一個區塊是公務機關優先各自全面監管第二個是非公務機關那第三個是目的事業主管機關的非公務機關那我想請教第一個公務機關的部分那如果以後法院他的裁判書裡面如果有"},{"start":200.839,"end":224.697,"text":"那個不小心揭露一些 或是故意揭露一些合一性侵等等的個資呢 你們要怎麼裁法你要對法官開法嗎 還是對機關開法那部分有關於法院 因為本身在憲法就已經有保障說那個法院在行使他的那個審判的話是獨立行使所以那部分的話還是要按照現行的規定所以法院如果違反你們就無從處理嗎"},{"start":225.718,"end":253.721,"text":"因為這個在國外包含在歐盟他們也是直接有規定獨立專人機關不可以去涉入那個審判當然沒關係我想說意思就是沒有辦法處理好那這是答案然後再來我請問我剛剛講第三個那如果是中華電信然後那個它是NCC管以後歸你們管還有銀行的各支這些本來是金管會管現在改成歸你們管嗎那我想請教一下那像這樣子的話那以後你們的人力足夠嗎"},{"start":255.712,"end":275.088,"text":"跟委員報告目前現在我們先設計未來在作用法部分設計一個六年的條款會分階段兩年兩年回收然後同時再去評估我們現有的人力這個部分還要再跟人工因為這個量很大很驚人我在這邊先跟你說明一下是是是謝謝委員這量很大到底你有沒有辦法吃得下來是你們第一個要考量的問題謝謝委員"},{"start":275.708,"end":284.802,"text":"然後再來就是說我看到你們說歸管的過渡期可是草案都沒有提到耶那這樣子的話那像我剛剛講到中華電信各家銀行有違反個資的問題"},{"start":287.165,"end":306.247,"text":"那個裁罰的權責機關是誰?訴願的機關又是誰?你可以跟我講嗎?好 跟委員報告目前現在在作用法第51條之一是規定在分管的時間的時候還是由原分管的中央目的層面來進行裁罰但是他裁罰做了處分的話他的訴願不會再往其他地方跑是直接到我們這邊"},{"start":307.328,"end":326.861,"text":"那還蠻特別的耶 這跟溯源法的規定不一樣所以你們用特別規定來處理對 直接到我們這邊來所以我們是用這個那這個要宣導明確喔因為人民對於溯源的程序他的理解會原本溯源法的規範作用法有明確規定那再來喔 最後我請教一個問題因為我看到你們啊"},{"start":327.742,"end":356.838,"text":"草案的第10條又要大量聘用約聘人員50人啊那我想說哇 又是約聘因為其實我很擔心 我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘因為約聘它就不是經由正常的公務員文官任用的方式不是一般那種考試進來的嘛那約聘到最後會不會又變成是酬庸性質這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分那我想請問一下主任這麼大量的約聘人數 那以後會不會又變成是酬庸呢"},{"start":358.127,"end":385.01,"text":"跟委員報告 不會啦 因為我們上限是控制在50人齊二就是因為目前現在因為監管的事業多元化尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技的發展還有對於說集合有些可能這些實務界我們公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員所以我們還是有這樣的一個需求好 沒有 我就說我的意見還是這個啦 約聘會不會變成酬庸 我想不管是哪一個政黨 只要立委"},{"start":385.45,"end":404.49,"text":"都會在意這件事情你們那個監督議員化我不是說完全反對但監督議員化就會變成是事權的變成統一了那事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題就是將來我們每個人都會擔心的就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整數一級用"},{"start":405.091,"end":426.456,"text":"不要說整數不同黨啦同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系我不知道啦我也沒有說哪一個政黨啦會不會變成這樣這就是我認為監督議員化可能產生的副作用主任"},{"start":427.785,"end":442.238,"text":"我相信你會有你的說法啦那我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎就是一個委員會的成立是要保護國人不是拿來做政治鬥爭的好不好好謝謝我們吳宗憲委員的詢談"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":88,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（13時17分）謝謝，請個資會李主任及主計總處廖專委。"],["主席：請李主任及廖專委。"],["李主任世德：委員午安。"],["吳委員宗憲：午安。首先請教李主任，今天的報告提到你們相當於三級獨立機關，我想請問一下，我看到草案第三條說到採合議制，委員總共五到七人，可是主委、副主委、專委兩人都是院長指派，這樣變成可能五分之四、六分之四或七分之四，有一半都是院長指派的人，這樣子要怎麼樣獨立？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，現階段是依照組織法任命之後，然後獨立去……"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你講我的第一個疑問是這裡面有四個人是院長指派，委員總共才五到七人，等於過半都是院長指派，但是只要過半就可以開罰，這樣子的合議制還有意義嗎？因為都是執行院長的意見啊！"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，就現階段整個獨立機關這樣的設置而言，在核安及運輸安全方面也是有這樣的設置體制，我們目前先用核安會的設計去做我們參考的一部分。"],["吳委員宗憲：你這樣回答我還是搞不清楚，你還是沒有講到我想要的答案，我的題目是說，有一半都是院長指派的人，這樣要怎麼讓它能夠行政獨立？這是我的第一個意見。尤其我認為目前我國的NCC及中選會爭議都蠻多的，今天我們又要讓你成立一個新的委員會，但是其中的成員卻是院長可以指派超過半數的人，如此一來，它要怎麼樣獨立？這是我的第一個問題。你剛剛說你們是借鏡哪個獨立機關？"],["李主任世德：目前因為是三級機關，我們也參考了核安會及運安會，其實組織法本身也有強調這一點，它必須依照法律獨立行使職權。"],["吳委員宗憲：我還是回到最基本的問題，你一直告訴我，你們是獨立行使職權的機關，但是我看到的是過半……不管你是採五到七人的哪一個人數，過半都是院長所指定的人，這就是我的問題。","我再請教一下，你們總共區分三個區塊：第一個區塊是公務機關優先個資全面監管，第二個是非公務機關，第三個是有明確目的事業主管機關的非公務機關。我想請教第一個有關公務機關的部分，如果以後法院的裁判書裡面不小心揭露或者故意揭露一些合意性侵等等的個資，你們要怎麼裁罰？你要對法官開罰嗎？還是對機關開罰？"],["李主任世德：有關於法院的部分，因為憲法已經有保障法院的審判是獨立行使，所以那部分還是要按照現行的規定，我們不能介入法院的……"],["吳委員宗憲：所以法院如果違反，你們就無從處理嗎？"],["李主任世德：因為在國外包含歐盟等國家，他們也是直接規定獨立專責機關不可以涉入審判，我們不用寫，原則上也是如此。"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，我想這個意思就是沒有辦法處理，這就是答案。再來，我請問剛剛講的第三個區塊，如果是中華電信，它現在是歸NCC管，以後歸你們管；還有銀行的個資本來是歸金管會管，現在改成歸你們管。我想請教一下，像這樣子的話，以後你們的人力足夠嗎？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，就我們目前的設計，未來在作用法的部分設計一個六年的條款，會分階段每兩年回收，同時再去評估我們現有的人力，這個部分還要再跟人總協調。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為這個量很大、很驚人，我在這邊先跟你說明一下。"],["李主任世德：是，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：這個量很大，你們到底有沒有辦法吃得下來，這是你們第一個要考量的問題。"],["李主任世德：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：再來，我看到你們有說規管的過渡期，可是草案都沒有提到，像我剛剛講到中華電信或各家銀行有違反個資的問題，裁罰的權責機關是誰？訴願的機關又是誰？你可以跟我講嗎？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，目前作用法第五十一條之一是規定在分管的時候，還是由原分管的中央目的事業主管機關來進行裁罰，但是對於裁罰所作的處分，它的訴願不會再往其他地方跑，而是直接到我們這邊，由我們……"],["吳委員宗憲：那還蠻特別的，這跟訴願法的規定不一樣。"],["李主任世德：對，我們有特別規定。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以你們用特別規定來處理？"],["李主任世德：對，直接到我們這邊來，所以我們是用這個來控制它。"],["吳委員宗憲：這個要宣導明確，因為人民對於訴願程序的理解會是原本訴願法的規範。"],["李主任世德：對，作用法有明確規定。"],["吳委員宗憲：最後我請教一個問題，因為我看到草案第十條規定要大量聘用約聘人員五十人，我心想：哇，又是約聘！其實我很擔心，我覺得國家怎麼走到最後都是約聘？因為約聘並不是經由正常文官任用的方式，不是藉由一般考試進來的，約聘到最後會不會又變成酬庸性質？這是我們立法委員應該要監督的部分。我想請問主任，這麼大量的約聘人數，以後會不會又變成酬庸呢？"],["李主任世德：不會啦！因為我們上限是控制在五十人。其二是因為現在監管越來越多元化，尤其還涉及到很多AI新的科技發展，還有有些稽核的實務案件在公部門都找不到這種專業的人士剛好又是做公務員的，所以我們還是有這樣的需求，請委員見諒。"],["吳委員宗憲：我的意見還是約聘會不會變成酬庸？我想不管是哪一個政黨，只要立委都會在意這件事情，好不好？"],["李主任世德：了解，這會接受監督的。"],["吳委員宗憲：你們監督一元化我並不是完全反對，但監督一元化就會變成事權統一了，事權統一之後又會發生另外一個問題，這是將來我們每個人都會擔心的，就是會不會把這個委員會變成是整肅異己來使用，不要說整肅不同黨，同黨裡面我看也是殺到瘋了啦！最近有一些政黨內部不同派系也是殺到瘋了，會不會變成是主導的派系去殺他不喜歡的派系？我不知道啦，我也沒有說哪一個政黨，會不會變成這樣？這就是我認為監督一元化可能產生的副作用。"],["李主任世德：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：主任，我相信你會有你的說法，我在這邊就是跟主任說明一下，這個東西千萬不要發生好嗎？"],["李主任世德：不會，它本身就要保持中立。"],["吳委員宗憲：一個委員會的成立是要保護國人，不是拿來做政治鬥爭的，好不好？"],["李主任世德：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員的詢答，其實這都是很寶貴的意見。","接下來請陳亭妃委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,19-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","賴瑞隆","吳宗憲","陳亭妃","沈發惠","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","王義川","陳培瑜","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","李坤城","邱議瑩","邱志偉"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等18人、(三)委員羅廷瑋等18人、(四)委員李坤\n城等16人、(五)委員吳秉叡等18人、(六)委員陳亭妃等16人、(七)委員蔡易餘等17人、(八)委員\n何 欣 純 等 2 2 人及 ( 九 ) 委員 吳 思 瑤 等 1 7 人 分 別 擬具 「 個 人 資 料保 護 委 員會 組 織 法 草 案」 案","agenda_id":"1145402_00002"}}}