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--> 00:01:01,969\n那作用法經濟委員會正在審查我等一下問的問題其實很多其實跟作用法會比較有關係但我倒是想要看看我們的主委的一些理念上的分享是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見的回饋下一頁\n\n4\n00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:29,300\n現在發生了很多的個案當然從花蓮市政府基隆市政府到南投選委會都發生了濫用公務體系的互證系統去侵害個資好那政黨政治各方面的政治上的操作我都不再提而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為他掌有國家最大的\n\n5\n00:01:30,681 --> 00:01:53,699\n公权力所授权的个人资料所以我们更彰显我们需要一个独立专业中立的机关否则现在如果以眼前台湾正在发生的个人资料的保护恐怕就是罢免案的资料外泄这更可以凸显我们需要一个独立的\n\n6\n00:01:55,065 --> 00:02:06,566\n專業的中立的機關否則像現在花蓮基隆南投發生的事情除了當事人去提起法律上的權利的捍衛之外我們幾乎沒有什麼樣子的\n\n7\n00:02:07,779 --> 00:02:25,891\n行政上的力量可以來阻卻或者是來懲處對不對下一頁同樣的在中央部門教育部最近也發生了是不是教育部的葉秉成次長涉及不當的去洩露學生的個資他現在自請暫時\n\n8\n00:02:28,612 --> 00:02:52,607\n請假等候調查我也用這個例子來彰顯不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門當發生了公權力部門公部門對於公民的個人資料外洩的時候我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做一個公正的一個處理所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快來讓這個委員會上路哦夏業\n\n9\n00:02:54,096 --> 00:03:18,638\n但我的幾個問題當然第一個大問題是一個大災問我們很多的人權單位都希望說長城而言希望是二級機關而不是三級機關就您個人撇開等一下要審的條例啦您認為三級機關就足夠嗎如果邁向二級機關二級機關應當是一個更強而有力對於各自的保護是不是\n\n10\n00:03:20,836 --> 00:03:37,415\n跟委員報告就是目前當機關的仇社一來當然也是要尊重人手目前現在的組織我知道但是現在有困難嘛是然後二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟了解國外國內當然也沒有說要把那個說整個機關組織層級要用最高規格的\n\n11\n00:03:41,021 --> 00:04:03,670\n那我們以前我還在國安會的時候也有跟歐盟司法總署我們有先做過錯談他們給我們一個觀念因為他們不太理解我們台灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級對他們而言就是獨立行使法定職權你就是可以去監督你的監督對象那其他的機關是按照法律受監督的嘛所以這部分我記得當時候歐盟司法總署有給我們一個建議他說\n\n12\n00:04:05,151 --> 00:04:23,113\n不管你們國家是最後要用二級三級重點是在於你們現有的那個職長可以去對於說作用法可以去落實所以假如以這樣來看的話我們目前現在其實先看說因為各司法有一個蠻特別的它是一個單一法令很完整的其實它就推展一個很重要的觀念就是\n\n13\n00:04:23,553 --> 00:04:41,941\n個人資料保護的一個制度我們俗稱PrincipalPersonalInformationManagementSystem能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程那以這個整個觀念如果能夠落實進去我們剛剛在討論說包含說外洩這些情況它就很明顯開始會被\n\n14\n00:04:43,823 --> 00:05:00,961\n您說的我都同意因為時間到了我認為先求有再求好長程而言如果可以因為因應現在的數位經濟發展數位科技的發展可能更有我認為Maybesomeday二級機關是一個可行的方向但現在馬上就要審\n\n15\n00:05:02,463 --> 00:05:15,874\n先求有再求好我可以接受三級機關但是下一頁跟作用法我有兩個問題跟作用法比較相關啦齁您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分第一個對於現實通報\n\n16\n00:05:20,057 --> 00:05:31,481\n我們現在如果在個資法修法限時通報只有寫限時然後由主管機關定之但是如果以歐洲歐盟的標準是一旦發生侵害個資的事件當事人可以提請72小時向經理機關通報第一個有明確的是72小時\n\n17\n00:05:35,703 --> 00:05:51,374\n第二個在違規罰則的部分不管對公部門或私部門歐盟是罰得非常重的非常非常重的一千萬歐元以上或者是兩千萬歐元以上或者是企業年收入的百分之二或百分之四這當然對於私部門但是我們現在各自法的修法裡頭對於非公務機關才有罰還但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒\n\n18\n00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:07,905\n這兩個部分現實通報的期限跟違規法則的提升補強您是不是認同我們可以再精進未來再修作用法的時候\n\n19\n00:06:09,022 --> 00:06:33,945\n這一部分的話我們作用法我們也會就是要啟動第二階段的那個修法一樣先求有再求好我最後一個問題就是回到今天的審的我也非常認同剛剛審法會委員說的不管是我們現在是和安會也好這未來的各資會其實運安會9到11人我認為相對是合宜的一個委員的組成\n\n20\n00:06:35,006 --> 00:06:42,819\n五到七在領域的曲線或者是這個extend這個部分我都認為九到十一也許是一個比較好的選擇我們稍後再一起逐條時候討論好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1852\t3074\t生日快樂今天不是韓院長的生日快樂是莊昭偉的生日快樂謝謝大家都快樂謝謝有請主任請李主任委員快樂\n20721\t46601\t希望今天的审查会是一个好的结果让我们来接轨国际法制面当然作用法是重要的经济委员会正在审但是组织面就是今天的这个独立机关能够来获得委员会的合格我想这都同等重要下页当然这个是恢复宪法保障的基本权利而且我一再的强调接轨国际好我想朝野的委员都会支持下页\n47381\t61969\t那作用法經濟委員會正在審查我等一下問的問題其實很多其實跟作用法會比較有關係但我倒是想要看看我們的主委的一些理念上的分享是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見的回饋 下一頁\n63930\t89300\t現在發生了很多的個案當然從花蓮市政府基隆市政府到南投選委會都發生了濫用公務體系的互證系統去侵害個資好那政黨政治各方面的政治上的操作我都不再提而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為他掌有國家最大的\n90681\t113699\t公权力所授权的个人资料所以我们更彰显我们需要一个独立专业中立的机关否则现在如果以眼前台湾正在发生的个人资料的保护恐怕就是罢免案的资料外泄这更可以凸显我们需要一个独立的\n115065\t126566\t專業的中立的機關否則像現在花蓮基隆南投發生的事情除了當事人去提起法律上的權利的捍衛之外我們幾乎沒有什麼樣子的\n127779\t145891\t行政上的力量可以來阻卻或者是來懲處對不對下一頁同樣的在中央部門教育部最近也發生了是不是教育部的葉秉成次長涉及不當的去洩露學生的個資他現在自請暫時\n148612\t172607\t請假等候調查我也用這個例子來彰顯不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門當發生了公權力部門公部門對於公民的個人資料外洩的時候我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做一個公正的一個處理所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快來讓這個委員會上路哦夏業\n174096\t198638\t但我的幾個問題當然第一個大問題是一個大災問我們很多的人權單位都希望說長城而言希望是二級機關而不是三級機關就您個人撇開等一下要審的條例啦您認為三級機關就足夠嗎如果邁向二級機關二級機關應當是一個更強而有力對於各自的保護是不是\n200836\t217415\t跟委員報告就是目前當機關的仇社一來當然也是要尊重人手目前現在的組織我知道但是現在有困難嘛是然後二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟了解國外國內當然也沒有說要把那個說整個機關組織層級要用最高規格的\n221021\t243670\t那我們以前我還在國安會的時候也有跟歐盟司法總署我們有先做過錯談他們給我們一個觀念因為他們不太理解我們台灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級對他們而言就是獨立行使法定職權你就是可以去監督你的監督對象那其他的機關是按照法律受監督的嘛所以這部分我記得當時候歐盟司法總署有給我們一個建議他說\n245151\t263113\t不管你們國家是最後要用二級三級重點是在於你們現有的那個職長可以去對於說作用法可以去落實所以假如以這樣來看的話我們目前現在其實先看說因為各司法有一個蠻特別的它是一個單一法令很完整的其實它就推展一個很重要的觀念就是\n263553\t281941\t個人資料保護的一個制度我們俗稱PrincipalPersonal InformationManagement System能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程那以這個整個觀念如果能夠落實進去我們剛剛在討論說包含說外洩這些情況它就很明顯開始會被\n283823\t300961\t您說的我都同意因為時間到了我認為先求有再求好長程而言如果可以因為因應現在的數位經濟發展數位科技的發展可能更有我認為Maybe someday二級機關是一個可行的方向但現在馬上就要審\n302463\t315874\t先求有再求好我可以接受三級機關但是下一頁跟作用法我有兩個問題跟作用法比較相關啦齁您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分第一個對於現實通報\n320057\t331481\t我們現在如果在個資法修法限時通報只有寫限時然後由主管機關定之但是如果以歐洲歐盟的標準是一旦發生侵害個資的事件當事人可以提請72小時向經理機關通報第一個有明確的是72小時\n335703\t351374\t第二個在違規罰則的部分不管對公部門或私部門歐盟是罰得非常重的非常非常重的一千萬歐元以上或者是兩千萬歐元以上或者是企業年收入的百分之二或百分之四這當然對於私部門但是我們現在各自法的修法裡頭對於非公務機關才有罰還但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒\n359519\t367905\t這兩個部分現實通報的期限跟違規法則的提升補強您是不是認同我們可以再精進未來再修作用法的時候\n369022\t393945\t這一部分的話我們作用法我們也會就是要啟動第二階段的那個修法一樣先求有再求好我最後一個問題就是回到今天的審的我也非常認同剛剛審法會委員說的不管是我們現在是和安會也好這未來的各資會其實運安會9到11人我認為相對是合宜的一個委員的組成\n395006\t402819\t五到七在領域的曲線或者是這個extend這個部分我都認為九到十一也許是一個比較好的選擇我們稍後再一起逐條時候討論好謝謝\n","txt":"生日快樂今天不是韓院長的生日快樂是莊昭偉的生日快樂謝謝大家都快樂謝謝有請主任請李主任委員快樂\n希望今天的审查会是一个好的结果让我们来接轨国际法制面当然作用法是重要的经济委员会正在审但是组织面就是今天的这个独立机关能够来获得委员会的合格我想这都同等重要下页当然这个是恢复宪法保障的基本权利而且我一再的强调接轨国际好我想朝野的委员都会支持下页\n那作用法經濟委員會正在審查我等一下問的問題其實很多其實跟作用法會比較有關係但我倒是想要看看我們的主委的一些理念上的分享是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見的回饋 下一頁\n現在發生了很多的個案當然從花蓮市政府基隆市政府到南投選委會都發生了濫用公務體系的互證系統去侵害個資好那政黨政治各方面的政治上的操作我都不再提而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為他掌有國家最大的\n公权力所授权的个人资料所以我们更彰显我们需要一个独立专业中立的机关否则现在如果以眼前台湾正在发生的个人资料的保护恐怕就是罢免案的资料外泄这更可以凸显我们需要一个独立的\n專業的中立的機關否則像現在花蓮基隆南投發生的事情除了當事人去提起法律上的權利的捍衛之外我們幾乎沒有什麼樣子的\n行政上的力量可以來阻卻或者是來懲處對不對下一頁同樣的在中央部門教育部最近也發生了是不是教育部的葉秉成次長涉及不當的去洩露學生的個資他現在自請暫時\n請假等候調查我也用這個例子來彰顯不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門當發生了公權力部門公部門對於公民的個人資料外洩的時候我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做一個公正的一個處理所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快來讓這個委員會上路哦夏業\n但我的幾個問題當然第一個大問題是一個大災問我們很多的人權單位都希望說長城而言希望是二級機關而不是三級機關就您個人撇開等一下要審的條例啦您認為三級機關就足夠嗎如果邁向二級機關二級機關應當是一個更強而有力對於各自的保護是不是\n跟委員報告就是目前當機關的仇社一來當然也是要尊重人手目前現在的組織我知道但是現在有困難嘛是然後二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟了解國外國內當然也沒有說要把那個說整個機關組織層級要用最高規格的\n那我們以前我還在國安會的時候也有跟歐盟司法總署我們有先做過錯談他們給我們一個觀念因為他們不太理解我們台灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級對他們而言就是獨立行使法定職權你就是可以去監督你的監督對象那其他的機關是按照法律受監督的嘛所以這部分我記得當時候歐盟司法總署有給我們一個建議他說\n不管你們國家是最後要用二級三級重點是在於你們現有的那個職長可以去對於說作用法可以去落實所以假如以這樣來看的話我們目前現在其實先看說因為各司法有一個蠻特別的它是一個單一法令很完整的其實它就推展一個很重要的觀念就是\n個人資料保護的一個制度我們俗稱PrincipalPersonal InformationManagement System能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程那以這個整個觀念如果能夠落實進去我們剛剛在討論說包含說外洩這些情況它就很明顯開始會被\n您說的我都同意因為時間到了我認為先求有再求好長程而言如果可以因為因應現在的數位經濟發展數位科技的發展可能更有我認為Maybe someday二級機關是一個可行的方向但現在馬上就要審\n先求有再求好我可以接受三級機關但是下一頁跟作用法我有兩個問題跟作用法比較相關啦齁您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分第一個對於現實通報\n我們現在如果在個資法修法限時通報只有寫限時然後由主管機關定之但是如果以歐洲歐盟的標準是一旦發生侵害個資的事件當事人可以提請72小時向經理機關通報第一個有明確的是72小時\n第二個在違規罰則的部分不管對公部門或私部門歐盟是罰得非常重的非常非常重的一千萬歐元以上或者是兩千萬歐元以上或者是企業年收入的百分之二或百分之四這當然對於私部門但是我們現在各自法的修法裡頭對於非公務機關才有罰還但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒\n這兩個部分現實通報的期限跟違規法則的提升補強您是不是認同我們可以再精進未來再修作用法的時候\n這一部分的話我們作用法我們也會就是要啟動第二階段的那個修法一樣先求有再求好我最後一個問題就是回到今天的審的我也非常認同剛剛審法會委員說的不管是我們現在是和安會也好這未來的各資會其實運安會9到11人我認為相對是合宜的一個委員的組成\n五到七在領域的曲線或者是這個extend這個部分我都認為九到十一也許是一個比較好的選擇我們稍後再一起逐條時候討論好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.852 --> 00:03.074\n生日快樂今天不是韓院長的生日快樂是莊昭偉的生日快樂謝謝大家都快樂謝謝有請主任請李主任委員快樂\n\n00:20.721 --> 00:46.601\n希望今天的审查会是一个好的结果让我们来接轨国际法制面当然作用法是重要的经济委员会正在审但是组织面就是今天的这个独立机关能够来获得委员会的合格我想这都同等重要下页当然这个是恢复宪法保障的基本权利而且我一再的强调接轨国际好我想朝野的委员都会支持下页\n\n00:47.381 --> 01:01.969\n那作用法經濟委員會正在審查我等一下問的問題其實很多其實跟作用法會比較有關係但我倒是想要看看我們的主委的一些理念上的分享是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見的回饋下一頁\n\n01:03.930 --> 01:29.300\n現在發生了很多的個案當然從花蓮市政府基隆市政府到南投選委會都發生了濫用公務體系的互證系統去侵害個資好那政黨政治各方面的政治上的操作我都不再提而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為他掌有國家最大的\n\n01:30.681 --> 01:53.699\n公权力所授权的个人资料所以我们更彰显我们需要一个独立专业中立的机关否则现在如果以眼前台湾正在发生的个人资料的保护恐怕就是罢免案的资料外泄这更可以凸显我们需要一个独立的\n\n01:55.065 --> 02:06.566\n專業的中立的機關否則像現在花蓮基隆南投發生的事情除了當事人去提起法律上的權利的捍衛之外我們幾乎沒有什麼樣子的\n\n02:07.779 --> 02:25.891\n行政上的力量可以來阻卻或者是來懲處對不對下一頁同樣的在中央部門教育部最近也發生了是不是教育部的葉秉成次長涉及不當的去洩露學生的個資他現在自請暫時\n\n02:28.612 --> 02:52.607\n請假等候調查我也用這個例子來彰顯不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門當發生了公權力部門公部門對於公民的個人資料外洩的時候我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做一個公正的一個處理所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快來讓這個委員會上路哦夏業\n\n02:54.096 --> 03:18.638\n但我的幾個問題當然第一個大問題是一個大災問我們很多的人權單位都希望說長城而言希望是二級機關而不是三級機關就您個人撇開等一下要審的條例啦您認為三級機關就足夠嗎如果邁向二級機關二級機關應當是一個更強而有力對於各自的保護是不是\n\n03:20.836 --> 03:37.415\n跟委員報告就是目前當機關的仇社一來當然也是要尊重人手目前現在的組織我知道但是現在有困難嘛是然後二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟了解國外國內當然也沒有說要把那個說整個機關組織層級要用最高規格的\n\n03:41.021 --> 04:03.670\n那我們以前我還在國安會的時候也有跟歐盟司法總署我們有先做過錯談他們給我們一個觀念因為他們不太理解我們台灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級對他們而言就是獨立行使法定職權你就是可以去監督你的監督對象那其他的機關是按照法律受監督的嘛所以這部分我記得當時候歐盟司法總署有給我們一個建議他說\n\n04:05.151 --> 04:23.113\n不管你們國家是最後要用二級三級重點是在於你們現有的那個職長可以去對於說作用法可以去落實所以假如以這樣來看的話我們目前現在其實先看說因為各司法有一個蠻特別的它是一個單一法令很完整的其實它就推展一個很重要的觀念就是\n\n04:23.553 --> 04:41.941\n個人資料保護的一個制度我們俗稱PrincipalPersonalInformationManagementSystem能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程那以這個整個觀念如果能夠落實進去我們剛剛在討論說包含說外洩這些情況它就很明顯開始會被\n\n04:43.823 --> 05:00.961\n您說的我都同意因為時間到了我認為先求有再求好長程而言如果可以因為因應現在的數位經濟發展數位科技的發展可能更有我認為Maybesomeday二級機關是一個可行的方向但現在馬上就要審\n\n05:02.463 --> 05:15.874\n先求有再求好我可以接受三級機關但是下一頁跟作用法我有兩個問題跟作用法比較相關啦齁您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分第一個對於現實通報\n\n05:20.057 --> 05:31.481\n我們現在如果在個資法修法限時通報只有寫限時然後由主管機關定之但是如果以歐洲歐盟的標準是一旦發生侵害個資的事件當事人可以提請72小時向經理機關通報第一個有明確的是72小時\n\n05:35.703 --> 05:51.374\n第二個在違規罰則的部分不管對公部門或私部門歐盟是罰得非常重的非常非常重的一千萬歐元以上或者是兩千萬歐元以上或者是企業年收入的百分之二或百分之四這當然對於私部門但是我們現在各自法的修法裡頭對於非公務機關才有罰還但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒\n\n05:59.519 --> 06:07.905\n這兩個部分現實通報的期限跟違規法則的提升補強您是不是認同我們可以再精進未來再修作用法的時候\n\n06:09.022 --> 06:33.945\n這一部分的話我們作用法我們也會就是要啟動第二階段的那個修法一樣先求有再求好我最後一個問題就是回到今天的審的我也非常認同剛剛審法會委員說的不管是我們現在是和安會也好這未來的各資會其實運安會9到11人我認為相對是合宜的一個委員的組成\n\n06:35.006 --> 06:42.819\n五到七在領域的曲線或者是這個extend這個部分我都認為九到十一也許是一個比較好的選擇我們稍後再一起逐條時候討論好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.852,"end":3.074,"text":"生日快樂今天不是韓院長的生日快樂是莊昭偉的生日快樂謝謝大家都快樂謝謝有請主任請李主任委員快樂"},{"start":20.721,"end":46.601,"text":"希望今天的审查会是一个好的结果让我们来接轨国际法制面当然作用法是重要的经济委员会正在审但是组织面就是今天的这个独立机关能够来获得委员会的合格我想这都同等重要下页当然这个是恢复宪法保障的基本权利而且我一再的强调接轨国际好我想朝野的委员都会支持下页"},{"start":47.381,"end":61.969,"text":"那作用法經濟委員會正在審查我等一下問的問題其實很多其實跟作用法會比較有關係但我倒是想要看看我們的主委的一些理念上的分享是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見的回饋 下一頁"},{"start":63.93,"end":89.3,"text":"現在發生了很多的個案當然從花蓮市政府基隆市政府到南投選委會都發生了濫用公務體系的互證系統去侵害個資好那政黨政治各方面的政治上的操作我都不再提而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為他掌有國家最大的"},{"start":90.681,"end":113.699,"text":"公权力所授权的个人资料所以我们更彰显我们需要一个独立专业中立的机关否则现在如果以眼前台湾正在发生的个人资料的保护恐怕就是罢免案的资料外泄这更可以凸显我们需要一个独立的"},{"start":115.065,"end":126.566,"text":"專業的中立的機關否則像現在花蓮基隆南投發生的事情除了當事人去提起法律上的權利的捍衛之外我們幾乎沒有什麼樣子的"},{"start":127.779,"end":145.891,"text":"行政上的力量可以來阻卻或者是來懲處對不對下一頁同樣的在中央部門教育部最近也發生了是不是教育部的葉秉成次長涉及不當的去洩露學生的個資他現在自請暫時"},{"start":148.612,"end":172.607,"text":"請假等候調查我也用這個例子來彰顯不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門當發生了公權力部門公部門對於公民的個人資料外洩的時候我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做一個公正的一個處理所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快來讓這個委員會上路哦夏業"},{"start":174.096,"end":198.638,"text":"但我的幾個問題當然第一個大問題是一個大災問我們很多的人權單位都希望說長城而言希望是二級機關而不是三級機關就您個人撇開等一下要審的條例啦您認為三級機關就足夠嗎如果邁向二級機關二級機關應當是一個更強而有力對於各自的保護是不是"},{"start":200.836,"end":217.415,"text":"跟委員報告就是目前當機關的仇社一來當然也是要尊重人手目前現在的組織我知道但是現在有困難嘛是然後二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟了解國外國內當然也沒有說要把那個說整個機關組織層級要用最高規格的"},{"start":221.021,"end":243.67,"text":"那我們以前我還在國安會的時候也有跟歐盟司法總署我們有先做過錯談他們給我們一個觀念因為他們不太理解我們台灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級對他們而言就是獨立行使法定職權你就是可以去監督你的監督對象那其他的機關是按照法律受監督的嘛所以這部分我記得當時候歐盟司法總署有給我們一個建議他說"},{"start":245.151,"end":263.113,"text":"不管你們國家是最後要用二級三級重點是在於你們現有的那個職長可以去對於說作用法可以去落實所以假如以這樣來看的話我們目前現在其實先看說因為各司法有一個蠻特別的它是一個單一法令很完整的其實它就推展一個很重要的觀念就是"},{"start":263.553,"end":281.941,"text":"個人資料保護的一個制度我們俗稱PrincipalPersonal InformationManagement System能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程那以這個整個觀念如果能夠落實進去我們剛剛在討論說包含說外洩這些情況它就很明顯開始會被"},{"start":283.823,"end":300.961,"text":"您說的我都同意因為時間到了我認為先求有再求好長程而言如果可以因為因應現在的數位經濟發展數位科技的發展可能更有我認為Maybe someday二級機關是一個可行的方向但現在馬上就要審"},{"start":302.463,"end":315.874,"text":"先求有再求好我可以接受三級機關但是下一頁跟作用法我有兩個問題跟作用法比較相關啦齁您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分第一個對於現實通報"},{"start":320.057,"end":331.481,"text":"我們現在如果在個資法修法限時通報只有寫限時然後由主管機關定之但是如果以歐洲歐盟的標準是一旦發生侵害個資的事件當事人可以提請72小時向經理機關通報第一個有明確的是72小時"},{"start":335.703,"end":351.374,"text":"第二個在違規罰則的部分不管對公部門或私部門歐盟是罰得非常重的非常非常重的一千萬歐元以上或者是兩千萬歐元以上或者是企業年收入的百分之二或百分之四這當然對於私部門但是我們現在各自法的修法裡頭對於非公務機關才有罰還但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒"},{"start":359.519,"end":367.905,"text":"這兩個部分現實通報的期限跟違規法則的提升補強您是不是認同我們可以再精進未來再修作用法的時候"},{"start":369.022,"end":393.945,"text":"這一部分的話我們作用法我們也會就是要啟動第二階段的那個修法一樣先求有再求好我最後一個問題就是回到今天的審的我也非常認同剛剛審法會委員說的不管是我們現在是和安會也好這未來的各資會其實運安會9到11人我認為相對是合宜的一個委員的組成"},{"start":395.006,"end":402.819,"text":"五到七在領域的曲線或者是這個extend這個部分我都認為九到十一也許是一個比較好的選擇我們稍後再一起逐條時候討論好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":208,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（13時36分）今天不是韓院長的生日快樂，是莊召委的生日快樂，謝謝，大家都快樂，謝謝。","有請主任。"],["主席：請李主任。"],["李主任世德：委員快樂。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝。希望今天的審查會是一個好結果，讓我們來接軌國際。"],["李主任世德：是，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：法制面，當然作用法是重要的，經濟委員會正在審，但是組織面，就是今天這個獨立機關能夠來獲得委員會的核可，我想這都同等重要。當然這是恢復憲法保障的基本權利，而且我一再的強調接軌國際，我想朝野的委員都會支持。經濟委員會正在審查作用法，我等一下問的問題其實很多跟作用法會比較有關係，但我倒是想要看看主委一些理念的分享，是不是能夠給我們多一點的意見回饋。","現在發生很多個案，從花蓮市政府、基隆市政府到南投選委會，都發生了濫用公務體系的戶政系統去侵害個資，政黨政治各方面政治上的操作，我都不再提，而是我在說確實公部門極有可能因為它掌有國家最大的公權力所授權的個人資料，所以更彰顯我們需要一個獨立、專業、中立的機關，否則如果以眼前臺灣正在發生的個人資料保護恐怕就是罷免案的資料外洩，這更可以凸顯我們需要一個獨立的、專業的、中立的機關，否則像現在花蓮、基隆、南投發生的事情，除了當事人提起法律上權利的捍衛之外，我們幾乎沒有什麼行政上的力量可以來阻卻，或者是來懲處，對不對？","同樣的，中央部門教育部最近也發生教育部葉丙成次長是不是涉及不當的洩漏學生的個資，他現在是暫時請假，等候調查。我也用這個例子來彰顯，不管中央的公務部門或是地方的公務部門，當發生了公權力部門、公部門對公民個人資料外洩的時候，我們就需要一個獨立的組織來做公正的處理，所以這是我們為什麼需要趕快讓這個委員會上路。","但我的幾個問題，第一個大問題是一個大哉問，長程而言，很多人權單位都希望是二級機關，而不是三級機關，撇開等一下要審的條例，你個人認為三級機關就足夠嗎？如果邁向二級機關，二級機關對於個資的保護應當是更強而有力，是不是？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，目前機關的籌設，一來當然也要尊重人總目前的組織改造，……"],["吳委員思瑤：我知道，但是現在有困難嘛。"],["李主任世德：二來就是確實我們在整個研究跟瞭解國外，國外當然也沒有要把整個機關的組織層級要用最高規格。以前我還在國發會的時候，我們有跟歐盟司法總署作過座談，他們給我們一個觀念，因為他們不太理解臺灣怎麼會去分二級跟三級，對他們而言，就是獨立行使法定職權……"],["吳委員思瑤：就是一個獨立機關。"],["李主任世德：你就是可以去監督你的監督對象。其他的機關是按照法律受監督的，這部分我記得當時歐盟司法總署有給我們建議，不管你們國家最後要用二級或三級，重點是在於你們現有的職掌，作用法可以落實。"],["吳委員思瑤：明確，好。"],["李主任世德：所以假如以這樣來看的話，我們目前先看，因為個資法蠻特別的，它是一個單一法令。"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["李主任世德：很完整的，其實它就是推展一個很重要的觀念，就是個人資料保護的制度，我們俗稱所謂的PIMS（Personal Information Management System），能夠落入不管公部門、私部門的整個業務跟職務推展的過程。這個觀念如果能夠落實，我們剛剛討論的包含外洩這些情況，就很明顯地開始會被控制住。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，您說的我都同意，因為時間到了，我認為先求有再求好。長程而言，如果可以因應現在的數位經濟發展、數位科技的發展，我認為maybe someday二級機關是一個可行的方向，但現在馬上就要審，先求有再求好，我可以接受三級機關。","但是我有兩個問題，跟作用法比較相關，您剛才講歐盟給我們很多經驗分享，GDPR所規範的其實有兩個部分，第一個是限時通報，我們現在個資法修法，限時通報只有寫「限時」，然後由主管機關定之。但是如果以歐盟的標準，是一旦發生侵害個資的事件，當事人可以在72小時內向監理機關通報，第一個有明確的是72小時。第二個在違規罰則的部分，不管對公部門或私部門，歐盟是罰得非常重的，非常非常重，1,000萬歐元以上或者是2,000萬歐元以上或是企業年收入的2%或4%，這當然是對於私部門。但是我們現在個資法的修法，對於非公務機關才有罰鍰，但是公務機關只有相關公務人員的懲戒。這兩部分，限時通報的期限跟違規罰則的提升補強，您是不是認同未來在修作用法的時候可以再精進？"],["李主任世德：這部分，作用法我們也會啟動第二階段的修法，尤其是個人……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，一樣，先求有再求好。"],["李主任世德：先求有再求好。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我最後一個問題，回到今天的審查，我也非常認同剛才沈發惠委員說的，不管現在是核安會也好，未來的個資會、運安會，9到11人我認為是相對合宜的委員組成，5到7人在領域的侷限或者是extend？這個部分我都認為9到11人也許是一個比較好的選擇，我們稍後再一起逐條的時候討論，謝謝。"],["李主任世德：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,19-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","賴瑞隆","吳宗憲","陳亭妃","沈發惠","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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