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{\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 77.561, \"end\": 77.581, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 77.581, \"end\": 77.781, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 77.781, \"end\": 77.961, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 77.961, \"end\": 78.121, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 78.121, \"end\": 79.041, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 79.041, \"end\": 79.421, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 79.421, \"end\": 80.982, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 80.982, \"end\": 81.062, \"score\": 0.568}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 81.062, \"end\": 81.582, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 81.582, \"end\": 82.362, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 82.362, \"end\": 82.482, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 82.482, \"end\": 83.363, \"score\": 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\"start\": 365.817, \"end\": 365.957, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 365.957, \"end\": 367.078, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 367.078, \"end\": 367.258, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 367.258, \"end\": 367.878, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 367.878, \"end\": 368.098, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 368.098, \"end\": 368.318, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.318, \"end\": 368.959, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"堅\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.959, \"end\": 369.079, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 369.079, \"end\": 369.379, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 369.379, \"end\": 369.459, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 369.459, \"end\": 369.479, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 371.445, \"end\": 371.466, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,149 --> 00:00:04,712\n其實在我們2022年憲法法庭做出憲判制13號章的一個解釋就已經很明確的去指出個人資料保護應該是有獨立的監管機關跟監管的一個監督的一個機制\n\n2\n00:00:24,604 --> 00:00:52,365\n這個其實都不是一個今天在討論的所謂的政策上選擇啦這反而是一個憲法上的一個義務那這部現在這部法組織法的一個最主要的目標就是真正去落實獨立的監管四個字所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討我們對那個吸取委員的這樣一個建議因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人\n\n3\n00:00:53,126 --> 00:00:54,434\n那最近大家去看到\n\n4\n00:00:55,373 --> 00:01:24,083\n我們今天在審查這個個人資料保護委員會的一個組織法我必須要先講就是說其實它不只是單純的一部組織法它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民這個隱私保障的一個基本的一個交代那也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心可是你反觀最近大家看到了個資裡面你說一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害\n\n5\n00:01:25,003 --> 00:01:51,812\n這個都已經是很糟糕了更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關那自己本身去違法那更糟糕了我簡單舉幾個例子來看我舉這個例子來意思就是說到底是政府要去違法蓄意去違法還是他的一個法律的一個專業上的一個認知上這麼的一個薄弱這個很可怕第一個你看花蓮\n\n6\n00:01:52,972 --> 00:02:16,264\n你說這一次的連署裡面這些疑點裡面選委會本來應該就是寄出詢問單去通知當事人來澄清結果呢花蓮這個民政處處長直接把整份的提議書丟給互證機關然後叫互證人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的這個很明顯就違反了我們整個個資保護法第16條公務機關對於個人資料的一個利用\n\n7\n00:02:19,305 --> 00:02:38,052\n這個很明顯就違法了那第二個就是這幾天你看到藍投這個部分我看了其實也是非常痛心的一樣戶政系統裡面的資料依法你只能供選委會去做查姓名戶籍甚至原名身份等等並沒有任何一個法院可以拿來做比對的這樣的一個筆記啊可是呢\n\n8\n00:02:39,052 --> 00:02:52,447\n負證機關他所保存這些民眾的一個簽章理論上而且本質上不能被選委拿來做比對的一個依據結果這幾天南投縣選委會自己去發明了發明新招把負證資料拿來當筆記鑑定師看到簽名這樣\n\n9\n00:02:56,491 --> 00:03:11,179\n歪一點嘛比劃多一下直接把它當成假聯署再做一個處理這根本就不叫依法行政這是自己創造這樣的一個規則來做政治上的一個審查那我很擔心的就是說他搞不好他也沒有這個意識\n\n10\n00:03:12,878 --> 00:03:34,199\n搞不好這些地方政府他也認為說沒有啦我就想要比較謹慎的核對出來但是他們不知道這個已經都侵犯到個人資料的一個保護啊另外第三個你去看喔更誇張的就是這個基隆罷團收不到聯署書怎麼辦不是補件直接就是罷免那些議員的直接去找副政機關撈資料來造冊\n\n11\n00:03:36,881 --> 00:03:47,926\n還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個霸團去開後門這很可怕這真的很可怕那我看看其實如果很多的霸團裡面這是國民黨的一個霸團裡面可能還是超超黨員名冊而已\n\n12\n00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:12,407\n還是超小黨的名冊而已你可以講說那就違反了電管交代可是政府機關啊你看基隆這個機關首長直接把負政機關負政系統變成選舉的武器庫把公權力變成一個正正的幫兇啊這個已經不叫濫用了我不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n13\n00:04:13,806 --> 00:04:27,200\n跟委員報告當然未來個人資格保護會成立的時候公共辦公室也是全面的納管剛剛也有提到說所有的公務部門他的上級機關我們也會跟他保持一個這樣子一個\n\n14\n00:04:28,005 --> 00:04:57,125\n平台我們在政策推進會議裡面相關的這些議題當然在未來個人資料保安會成立的時候也會很像的來跟他們討論尤其剛剛所提到很重要的是我們的戶籍法因為戶籍法是一個已經非常久的法它的主管機關雖然說對於這個法有它的一些認識適用的一些地方但是講到一談到說個人資料的收集處理利用當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定那選法法也是一樣啦\n\n15\n00:04:58,845 --> 00:05:13,310\n其實我是一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了你像比如說謝國良市長那當年其實還是立委的時候還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的一個協商你說當年其實大家都搖起吶喊在立法院的時候說要鎖住個資法\n\n16\n00:05:14,950 --> 00:05:40,027\n結果就變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了他把鑰匙雙手這樣去縫上這個是讓人覺得是非常非常非常不生虛虛的一個地方我們也看到其他的喔你說像新北市啊就曾經發生消防局的人員非法去查詢各支系統然後給殯葬業者甚至於去變賣這樣的魔力那新竹也是一樣我們看到這個我們今天在審查這一些啊這些亂象\n\n17\n00:05:41,684 --> 00:06:09,479\n這些亂象我相信今天這不是一個組織法它是一個也不是多設一個委員會而是要建立一道堅實的各自的一個防火牆真正能夠達到強化各自保護的一個效能我們也期待我們等一下的一個主條裡面大家可以集思廣益讓整部法能夠更完善然後對國人整個各自的保護提供更好的堅實的一個保護好謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:11,445 --> 00:06:11,466\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t4712\t其實在我們2022年憲法法庭做出憲判制13號章的一個解釋就已經很明確的去指出個人資料保護應該是有獨立的監管機關跟監管的一個監督的一個機制\n24604\t52365\t這個其實都不是一個今天在討論的所謂的政策上選擇啦這反而是一個憲法上的一個義務那這部現在這部法組織法的一個最主要的目標就是真正去落實獨立的監管四個字所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討我們對那個吸取委員的這樣一個建議因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人\n53126\t54434\t那最近大家去看到\n55373\t84083\t我們今天在審查這個個人資料保護委員會的一個組織法我必須要先講就是說其實它不只是單純的一部組織法它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民這個隱私保障的一個基本的一個交代那也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心可是你反觀最近大家看到了個資裡面你說一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害\n85003\t111812\t這個都已經是很糟糕了更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關那自己本身去違法那更糟糕了我簡單舉幾個例子來看我舉這個例子來 意思就是說到底是政府要去違法 蓄意去違法還是他的一個法律的一個專業上的一個認知上這麼的一個薄弱這個很可怕第一個你看花蓮\n112972\t136264\t你說這一次的連署裡面 這些疑點裡面選委會本來應該就是寄出詢問單去通知 當事人來澄清結果呢 花蓮這個民政處 處長直接把整份的提議書丟給互證機關然後叫互證人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的這個很明顯就違反了我們整個個資保護法第16條公務機關對於個人資料的一個利用\n139305\t158052\t這個很明顯就違法了那第二個就是這幾天你看到藍投這個部分我看了其實也是非常痛心的一樣戶政系統裡面的資料依法你只能供選委會去做查姓名戶籍甚至原名身份等等並沒有任何一個法院可以拿來做比對的這樣的一個筆記啊可是呢\n159052\t172447\t負證機關他所保存這些民眾的一個簽章理論上而且本質上不能被選委拿來做比對的一個依據結果這幾天南投縣選委會自己去發明了發明新招把負證資料拿來當筆記鑑定師看到簽名這樣\n176491\t191179\t歪一點嘛比劃多一下直接把它當成假聯署再做一個處理這根本就不叫依法行政這是自己創造這樣的一個規則來做政治上的一個審查那我很擔心的就是說他搞不好他也沒有這個意識\n192878\t214199\t搞不好這些地方政府他也認為說沒有啦 我就想要比較謹慎的核對出來但是他們不知道這個已經都侵犯到個人資料的一個保護啊另外第三個你去看喔 更誇張的就是這個基隆罷團收不到聯署書 怎麼辦 不是補件直接 就是罷免那些議員的 直接去找副政機關撈資料來造冊\n216881\t227926\t還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個霸團去開後門這很可怕 這真的很可怕那我看看 其實如果很多的霸團裡面這是國民黨的一個霸團裡面可能還是超超黨員名冊而已\n234560\t252407\t還是超小黨的名冊而已你可以講說 那就違反了 電管交代可是政府機關啊你看基隆這個機關首長直接把負政機關負政系統變成選舉的武器庫把公權力變成一個正正的幫兇啊這個已經不叫濫用了我不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣\n253806\t267200\t跟委員報告當然未來個人資格保護會成立的時候公共辦公室也是全面的納管剛剛也有提到說所有的公務部門他的上級機關我們也會跟他保持一個這樣子一個\n268005\t297125\t平台我們在政策推進會議裡面相關的這些議題當然在未來個人資料保安會成立的時候也會很像的來跟他們討論尤其剛剛所提到很重要的是我們的戶籍法因為戶籍法是一個已經非常久的法它的主管機關雖然說對於這個法有它的一些認識適用的一些地方但是講到一談到說個人資料的收集處理利用當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定那選法法也是一樣啦\n298845\t313310\t其實我是一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了你像比如說謝國良市長那當年其實還是立委的時候還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的一個協商你說當年其實大家都搖起吶喊在立法院的時候說要鎖住個資法\n314950\t340027\t結果就變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了他把鑰匙雙手這樣去縫上這個是讓人覺得是非常非常非常不生虛虛的一個地方我們也看到其他的喔你說像新北市啊就曾經發生消防局的人員非法去查詢各支系統然後給殯葬業者甚至於去變賣這樣的魔力那新竹也是一樣我們看到這個我們今天在審查這一些啊 這些亂象\n341684\t369479\t這些亂象我相信今天這不是一個組織法它是一個也不是多設一個委員會而是要建立一道堅實的各自的一個防火牆真正能夠達到強化各自保護的一個效能我們也期待我們等一下的一個主條裡面大家可以集思廣益讓整部法能夠更完善然後對國人整個各自的保護提供更好的堅實的一個保護好 謝謝\n371445\t371466\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"其實在我們2022年憲法法庭做出憲判制13號章的一個解釋就已經很明確的去指出個人資料保護應該是有獨立的監管機關跟監管的一個監督的一個機制\n這個其實都不是一個今天在討論的所謂的政策上選擇啦這反而是一個憲法上的一個義務那這部現在這部法組織法的一個最主要的目標就是真正去落實獨立的監管四個字所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討我們對那個吸取委員的這樣一個建議因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人\n那最近大家去看到\n我們今天在審查這個個人資料保護委員會的一個組織法我必須要先講就是說其實它不只是單純的一部組織法它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民這個隱私保障的一個基本的一個交代那也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心可是你反觀最近大家看到了個資裡面你說一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害\n這個都已經是很糟糕了更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關那自己本身去違法那更糟糕了我簡單舉幾個例子來看我舉這個例子來 意思就是說到底是政府要去違法 蓄意去違法還是他的一個法律的一個專業上的一個認知上這麼的一個薄弱這個很可怕第一個你看花蓮\n你說這一次的連署裡面 這些疑點裡面選委會本來應該就是寄出詢問單去通知 當事人來澄清結果呢 花蓮這個民政處 處長直接把整份的提議書丟給互證機關然後叫互證人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的這個很明顯就違反了我們整個個資保護法第16條公務機關對於個人資料的一個利用\n這個很明顯就違法了那第二個就是這幾天你看到藍投這個部分我看了其實也是非常痛心的一樣戶政系統裡面的資料依法你只能供選委會去做查姓名戶籍甚至原名身份等等並沒有任何一個法院可以拿來做比對的這樣的一個筆記啊可是呢\n負證機關他所保存這些民眾的一個簽章理論上而且本質上不能被選委拿來做比對的一個依據結果這幾天南投縣選委會自己去發明了發明新招把負證資料拿來當筆記鑑定師看到簽名這樣\n歪一點嘛比劃多一下直接把它當成假聯署再做一個處理這根本就不叫依法行政這是自己創造這樣的一個規則來做政治上的一個審查那我很擔心的就是說他搞不好他也沒有這個意識\n搞不好這些地方政府他也認為說沒有啦 我就想要比較謹慎的核對出來但是他們不知道這個已經都侵犯到個人資料的一個保護啊另外第三個你去看喔 更誇張的就是這個基隆罷團收不到聯署書 怎麼辦 不是補件直接 就是罷免那些議員的 直接去找副政機關撈資料來造冊\n還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個霸團去開後門這很可怕 這真的很可怕那我看看 其實如果很多的霸團裡面這是國民黨的一個霸團裡面可能還是超超黨員名冊而已\n還是超小黨的名冊而已你可以講說 那就違反了 電管交代可是政府機關啊你看基隆這個機關首長直接把負政機關負政系統變成選舉的武器庫把公權力變成一個正正的幫兇啊這個已經不叫濫用了我不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣\n跟委員報告當然未來個人資格保護會成立的時候公共辦公室也是全面的納管剛剛也有提到說所有的公務部門他的上級機關我們也會跟他保持一個這樣子一個\n平台我們在政策推進會議裡面相關的這些議題當然在未來個人資料保安會成立的時候也會很像的來跟他們討論尤其剛剛所提到很重要的是我們的戶籍法因為戶籍法是一個已經非常久的法它的主管機關雖然說對於這個法有它的一些認識適用的一些地方但是講到一談到說個人資料的收集處理利用當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定那選法法也是一樣啦\n其實我是一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了你像比如說謝國良市長那當年其實還是立委的時候還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的一個協商你說當年其實大家都搖起吶喊在立法院的時候說要鎖住個資法\n結果就變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了他把鑰匙雙手這樣去縫上這個是讓人覺得是非常非常非常不生虛虛的一個地方我們也看到其他的喔你說像新北市啊就曾經發生消防局的人員非法去查詢各支系統然後給殯葬業者甚至於去變賣這樣的魔力那新竹也是一樣我們看到這個我們今天在審查這一些啊 這些亂象\n這些亂象我相信今天這不是一個組織法它是一個也不是多設一個委員會而是要建立一道堅實的各自的一個防火牆真正能夠達到強化各自保護的一個效能我們也期待我們等一下的一個主條裡面大家可以集思廣益讓整部法能夠更完善然後對國人整個各自的保護提供更好的堅實的一個保護好 謝謝\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:04.712\n其實在我們2022年憲法法庭做出憲判制13號章的一個解釋就已經很明確的去指出個人資料保護應該是有獨立的監管機關跟監管的一個監督的一個機制\n\n00:24.604 --> 00:52.365\n這個其實都不是一個今天在討論的所謂的政策上選擇啦這反而是一個憲法上的一個義務那這部現在這部法組織法的一個最主要的目標就是真正去落實獨立的監管四個字所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討我們對那個吸取委員的這樣一個建議因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人\n\n00:53.126 --> 00:54.434\n那最近大家去看到\n\n00:55.373 --> 01:24.083\n我們今天在審查這個個人資料保護委員會的一個組織法我必須要先講就是說其實它不只是單純的一部組織法它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民這個隱私保障的一個基本的一個交代那也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心可是你反觀最近大家看到了個資裡面你說一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害\n\n01:25.003 --> 01:51.812\n這個都已經是很糟糕了更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關那自己本身去違法那更糟糕了我簡單舉幾個例子來看我舉這個例子來意思就是說到底是政府要去違法蓄意去違法還是他的一個法律的一個專業上的一個認知上這麼的一個薄弱這個很可怕第一個你看花蓮\n\n01:52.972 --> 02:16.264\n你說這一次的連署裡面這些疑點裡面選委會本來應該就是寄出詢問單去通知當事人來澄清結果呢花蓮這個民政處處長直接把整份的提議書丟給互證機關然後叫互證人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的這個很明顯就違反了我們整個個資保護法第16條公務機關對於個人資料的一個利用\n\n02:19.305 --> 02:38.052\n這個很明顯就違法了那第二個就是這幾天你看到藍投這個部分我看了其實也是非常痛心的一樣戶政系統裡面的資料依法你只能供選委會去做查姓名戶籍甚至原名身份等等並沒有任何一個法院可以拿來做比對的這樣的一個筆記啊可是呢\n\n02:39.052 --> 02:52.447\n負證機關他所保存這些民眾的一個簽章理論上而且本質上不能被選委拿來做比對的一個依據結果這幾天南投縣選委會自己去發明了發明新招把負證資料拿來當筆記鑑定師看到簽名這樣\n\n02:56.491 --> 03:11.179\n歪一點嘛比劃多一下直接把它當成假聯署再做一個處理這根本就不叫依法行政這是自己創造這樣的一個規則來做政治上的一個審查那我很擔心的就是說他搞不好他也沒有這個意識\n\n03:12.878 --> 03:34.199\n搞不好這些地方政府他也認為說沒有啦我就想要比較謹慎的核對出來但是他們不知道這個已經都侵犯到個人資料的一個保護啊另外第三個你去看喔更誇張的就是這個基隆罷團收不到聯署書怎麼辦不是補件直接就是罷免那些議員的直接去找副政機關撈資料來造冊\n\n03:36.881 --> 03:47.926\n還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個霸團去開後門這很可怕這真的很可怕那我看看其實如果很多的霸團裡面這是國民黨的一個霸團裡面可能還是超超黨員名冊而已\n\n03:54.560 --> 04:12.407\n還是超小黨的名冊而已你可以講說那就違反了電管交代可是政府機關啊你看基隆這個機關首長直接把負政機關負政系統變成選舉的武器庫把公權力變成一個正正的幫兇啊這個已經不叫濫用了我不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n04:13.806 --> 04:27.200\n跟委員報告當然未來個人資格保護會成立的時候公共辦公室也是全面的納管剛剛也有提到說所有的公務部門他的上級機關我們也會跟他保持一個這樣子一個\n\n04:28.005 --> 04:57.125\n平台我們在政策推進會議裡面相關的這些議題當然在未來個人資料保安會成立的時候也會很像的來跟他們討論尤其剛剛所提到很重要的是我們的戶籍法因為戶籍法是一個已經非常久的法它的主管機關雖然說對於這個法有它的一些認識適用的一些地方但是講到一談到說個人資料的收集處理利用當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定那選法法也是一樣啦\n\n04:58.845 --> 05:13.310\n其實我是一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了你像比如說謝國良市長那當年其實還是立委的時候還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的一個協商你說當年其實大家都搖起吶喊在立法院的時候說要鎖住個資法\n\n05:14.950 --> 05:40.027\n結果就變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了他把鑰匙雙手這樣去縫上這個是讓人覺得是非常非常非常不生虛虛的一個地方我們也看到其他的喔你說像新北市啊就曾經發生消防局的人員非法去查詢各支系統然後給殯葬業者甚至於去變賣這樣的魔力那新竹也是一樣我們看到這個我們今天在審查這一些啊這些亂象\n\n05:41.684 --> 06:09.479\n這些亂象我相信今天這不是一個組織法它是一個也不是多設一個委員會而是要建立一道堅實的各自的一個防火牆真正能夠達到強化各自保護的一個效能我們也期待我們等一下的一個主條裡面大家可以集思廣益讓整部法能夠更完善然後對國人整個各自的保護提供更好的堅實的一個保護好謝謝\n\n06:11.445 --> 06:11.466\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":4.712,"text":"其實在我們2022年憲法法庭做出憲判制13號章的一個解釋就已經很明確的去指出個人資料保護應該是有獨立的監管機關跟監管的一個監督的一個機制"},{"start":24.604,"end":52.365,"text":"這個其實都不是一個今天在討論的所謂的政策上選擇啦這反而是一個憲法上的一個義務那這部現在這部法組織法的一個最主要的目標就是真正去落實獨立的監管四個字所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討我們對那個吸取委員的這樣一個建議因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人"},{"start":53.126,"end":54.434,"text":"那最近大家去看到"},{"start":55.373,"end":84.083,"text":"我們今天在審查這個個人資料保護委員會的一個組織法我必須要先講就是說其實它不只是單純的一部組織法它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民這個隱私保障的一個基本的一個交代那也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心可是你反觀最近大家看到了個資裡面你說一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害"},{"start":85.003,"end":111.812,"text":"這個都已經是很糟糕了更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關那自己本身去違法那更糟糕了我簡單舉幾個例子來看我舉這個例子來 意思就是說到底是政府要去違法 蓄意去違法還是他的一個法律的一個專業上的一個認知上這麼的一個薄弱這個很可怕第一個你看花蓮"},{"start":112.972,"end":136.264,"text":"你說這一次的連署裡面 這些疑點裡面選委會本來應該就是寄出詢問單去通知 當事人來澄清結果呢 花蓮這個民政處 處長直接把整份的提議書丟給互證機關然後叫互證人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的這個很明顯就違反了我們整個個資保護法第16條公務機關對於個人資料的一個利用"},{"start":139.305,"end":158.052,"text":"這個很明顯就違法了那第二個就是這幾天你看到藍投這個部分我看了其實也是非常痛心的一樣戶政系統裡面的資料依法你只能供選委會去做查姓名戶籍甚至原名身份等等並沒有任何一個法院可以拿來做比對的這樣的一個筆記啊可是呢"},{"start":159.052,"end":172.447,"text":"負證機關他所保存這些民眾的一個簽章理論上而且本質上不能被選委拿來做比對的一個依據結果這幾天南投縣選委會自己去發明了發明新招把負證資料拿來當筆記鑑定師看到簽名這樣"},{"start":176.491,"end":191.179,"text":"歪一點嘛比劃多一下直接把它當成假聯署再做一個處理這根本就不叫依法行政這是自己創造這樣的一個規則來做政治上的一個審查那我很擔心的就是說他搞不好他也沒有這個意識"},{"start":192.878,"end":214.199,"text":"搞不好這些地方政府他也認為說沒有啦 我就想要比較謹慎的核對出來但是他們不知道這個已經都侵犯到個人資料的一個保護啊另外第三個你去看喔 更誇張的就是這個基隆罷團收不到聯署書 怎麼辦 不是補件直接 就是罷免那些議員的 直接去找副政機關撈資料來造冊"},{"start":216.881,"end":227.926,"text":"還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個霸團去開後門這很可怕 這真的很可怕那我看看 其實如果很多的霸團裡面這是國民黨的一個霸團裡面可能還是超超黨員名冊而已"},{"start":234.56,"end":252.407,"text":"還是超小黨的名冊而已你可以講說 那就違反了 電管交代可是政府機關啊你看基隆這個機關首長直接把負政機關負政系統變成選舉的武器庫把公權力變成一個正正的幫兇啊這個已經不叫濫用了我不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":253.806,"end":267.2,"text":"跟委員報告當然未來個人資格保護會成立的時候公共辦公室也是全面的納管剛剛也有提到說所有的公務部門他的上級機關我們也會跟他保持一個這樣子一個"},{"start":268.005,"end":297.125,"text":"平台我們在政策推進會議裡面相關的這些議題當然在未來個人資料保安會成立的時候也會很像的來跟他們討論尤其剛剛所提到很重要的是我們的戶籍法因為戶籍法是一個已經非常久的法它的主管機關雖然說對於這個法有它的一些認識適用的一些地方但是講到一談到說個人資料的收集處理利用當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定那選法法也是一樣啦"},{"start":298.845,"end":313.31,"text":"其實我是一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了你像比如說謝國良市長那當年其實還是立委的時候還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的一個協商你說當年其實大家都搖起吶喊在立法院的時候說要鎖住個資法"},{"start":314.95,"end":340.027,"text":"結果就變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了他把鑰匙雙手這樣去縫上這個是讓人覺得是非常非常非常不生虛虛的一個地方我們也看到其他的喔你說像新北市啊就曾經發生消防局的人員非法去查詢各支系統然後給殯葬業者甚至於去變賣這樣的魔力那新竹也是一樣我們看到這個我們今天在審查這一些啊 這些亂象"},{"start":341.684,"end":369.479,"text":"這些亂象我相信今天這不是一個組織法它是一個也不是多設一個委員會而是要建立一道堅實的各自的一個防火牆真正能夠達到強化各自保護的一個效能我們也期待我們等一下的一個主條裡面大家可以集思廣益讓整部法能夠更完善然後對國人整個各自的保護提供更好的堅實的一個保護好 謝謝"},{"start":371.445,"end":371.466,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":353,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（14時9分）謝謝主席，有請我們李主任。"],["主席：請李主任。"],["李主任世德：召委午安。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主任好。其實在2022年我們憲法法庭作出憲判字第13號這樣的一個解釋，就已經很明確的指出個人資料保護應該有獨立的監管機關跟監督機制，這個其實都不是今天在討論的所謂政策上的選擇，反而是一個憲法上的義務，現在這部組織法最主要的一個目標就是真正去落實「獨立監管」這四個字，所以本席在這邊其實也要提醒，剛剛幾位委員的指教也不無我們必須要去深入去探討的，因為最主要這個真的是要說服國人。"],["李主任世德：我們會聽取幾位委員這樣的建議。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我們今天在審查個人資料保護委員會的組織法，我必須要先講的是其實它不只是單純的一部組織法，它更是政府在資訊時代對全國人民隱私保障的一個基本交代，也是國家展現強化個資保護的一個決心，可是反觀最近大家看到的個資相關問題裡面，一些詐騙集團或者說個人去侵害，這個都已經是很糟糕了，更何況如果是政府帶頭或者政府機關自己本身去違法，那就更糟糕了！我簡單舉幾個例子，看看到底是政府要蓄意違法還是它在法律專業上的認知這麼的薄弱，這個很可怕。","第一個來看花蓮，這一次連署裡面的這些疑點，選委會本來應該是寄出詢問單去通知當事人來澄清，結果呢？花蓮這位民政處處長直接把整份的提議書丟給戶政機關，然後叫戶政人員挨家挨戶去按門鈴，問人家說這個簽名到底是不是你的，這個很明顯就違反了我們個資保護法第十六條有關公務機關對於個人資料之利用的規定，這個很明顯就違法了。","第二個就是這幾天看到南投這個部分，我看了其實也是非常痛心，同樣的，戶政系統裡面的資料依法只能供選委會去查姓名、戶籍甚至原民身分等等，並沒有任何一個法源可以拿來做比對筆跡之用，戶政機關所保存的這些民眾的簽章，理論上而且本質上不能被選委會拿來做比對的一個依據，結果這幾天，南投縣選委會自己發明新招，把戶政資料拿來當筆跡鑑定師，看到簽名這樣歪一點、筆劃多一下，就直接把它當成假連署處理，這根本就不叫依法行政，這是自己創造這樣一個規則來做政治上的審查，我很擔心的就是搞不好他也沒有這個意識、搞不好這些地方政府也認為他們沒怎麼樣，就是想要更謹慎的核對出來而已，但是他們不知道這個已經侵犯到個人資料的保護。","第三個更誇張，就是基隆，罷團收不到連署書，那怎麼辦？結果不是補件，而是直接去找戶政機關撈資料來造冊，還是民政處的處長親自下令幫這個罷團去開後門，這很可怕！這真的很可怕！其實很多的罷團，比如國民黨的罷團可能還是抄抄黨員名冊而已，你可以說這是為了上頭的交代，可是那是政府機關，基隆這個機關首長直接把戶政機關、戶政系統變成選舉的武器庫，把公權力變成政爭的一個幫兇，這個已經不叫濫用。不知道李主任你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，未來個人資料保護會成立的時候，當然公務部門也是要全面納管，剛剛也有提到，所有的公務部門它的上級機關我們也會跟它保持這樣子一個平台，在政策推進會議裡面，相關的這些議題，在未來個人資料保護會成立的時候，我們也會橫向的來跟他們討論。尤其是剛剛提到的很重要的我們的戶籍法，因為戶籍法是一個已經施行非常久的法，主管機關雖然說對於這個法有一些認識適用，但是講到個人資料的蒐集處理利用，當然還是要謹遵戶籍法的相關規定，選罷法也是一樣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：其實我一直搞不懂國民黨到底怎麼了，比如說謝國樑市長，當年還是立委的時候其實還曾代表國民黨去參加個資法修法的協商，那時大家都在立法院搖旗吶喊說要守住個資法，結果卻變成把這個圍牆給拆掉了，還把鑰匙雙手奉上，這是讓人覺得非常不勝唏噓的一個地方。我們也看到其他的，比如新北市就曾經發生消防局人員非法查詢個資系統，然後給殯葬業者，甚至變賣以此來牟利，新竹也是一樣。我們今天審查這個條例，看到這些亂象，我相信今天這不只是一個組織法，也不只是多設一個委員會，而是要建立一道堅實的個資防火牆，俾能真正達到強化個資保護的效能，我們也期待等一下逐條討論時，大家可以集思廣益，讓整部法能夠更完善，然後對國人個資的保護提供更好的、堅實的保護。謝謝！"],["李主任世德：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。"],["主席（莊委員瑞雄）：謝謝蔡易餘委員。","接下來我們請最帥氣的羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,19-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","賴瑞隆","吳宗憲","陳亭妃","沈發惠","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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