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105.883, \"end\": 123.589, \"text\": \"黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 105.883, \"end\": 106.163, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"勛\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 106.163, \"end\": 106.303, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 106.303, \"end\": 106.983, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 106.983, \"end\": 107.624, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 107.624, \"end\": 108.264, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 108.264, \"end\": 108.884, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 108.884, \"end\": 109.124, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"蓋\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 109.124, \"end\": 109.684, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 109.684, \"end\": 109.825, \"score\": 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121.209, \"end\": 121.769, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 121.769, \"end\": 122.049, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 122.049, \"end\": 122.369, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"勛\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 122.369, \"end\": 122.749, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 122.749, \"end\": 122.949, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 122.949, \"end\": 123.089, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 123.089, \"end\": 123.329, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 123.329, \"end\": 123.549, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 123.549, \"end\": 123.569, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 123.569, \"end\": 123.589, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 125.49, \"end\": 140.425, \"text\": \"那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 125.49, \"end\": 125.771, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 125.771, \"end\": 125.931, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 125.931, \"end\": 126.551, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 126.551, \"end\": 126.691, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 126.691, \"end\": 126.992, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 126.992, \"end\": 127.112, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 127.112, \"end\": 127.252, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 127.252, \"end\": 127.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 127.272, \"end\": 127.873, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 127.873, \"end\": 128.053, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 128.053, \"end\": 128.173, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 128.173, \"end\": 128.393, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 128.393, \"end\": 128.894, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 128.894, \"end\": 129.114, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 129.114, \"end\": 129.234, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 129.234, \"end\": 129.494, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 129.494, \"end\": 130.095, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 130.095, \"end\": 130.675, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 130.675, \"end\": 130.835, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 130.835, \"end\": 131.136, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 131.136, \"end\": 131.276, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 131.276, \"end\": 131.716, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 131.716, \"end\": 132.317, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 132.317, \"end\": 132.457, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 132.457, \"end\": 132.597, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 132.597, \"end\": 132.717, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 132.717, \"end\": 132.797, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 132.797, \"end\": 132.917, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 132.917, \"end\": 133.238, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 133.238, \"end\": 133.578, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 133.578, \"end\": 133.898, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 133.898, \"end\": 134.439, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 134.439, \"end\": 134.679, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 134.679, \"end\": 134.819, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 134.819, \"end\": 135.82, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 135.82, \"end\": 135.96, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 135.96, \"end\": 136.08, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 136.08, \"end\": 136.501, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.501, \"end\": 136.841, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 136.841, \"end\": 137.142, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 137.142, \"end\": 137.262, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 137.262, \"end\": 137.382, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 137.382, \"end\": 137.522, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 137.522, \"end\": 137.642, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 137.642, \"end\": 137.902, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 137.902, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 139.584, \"end\": 139.624, \"score\": 0.47}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 139.624, \"end\": 139.784, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 139.784, \"end\": 139.824, \"score\": 0.122}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 139.824, \"end\": 139.844, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 139.844, \"end\": 140.084, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 140.084, \"end\": 140.184, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 140.184, \"end\": 140.224, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 140.224, \"end\": 140.325, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 140.325, \"end\": 140.405, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 140.405, \"end\": 140.425, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}]}, {\"start\": 149.824, \"end\": 177.192, \"text\": \"我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛 那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 149.824, \"end\": 150.044, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 150.044, \"end\": 150.424, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 150.424, \"end\": 150.524, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 150.524, \"end\": 150.804, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 150.804, \"end\": 151.144, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 151.144, \"end\": 151.404, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.404, \"end\": 151.905, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"述\", \"start\": 151.905, \"end\": 152.685, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 152.685, \"end\": 152.905, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 152.905, \"end\": 153.545, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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958.228, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 958.228, \"end\": 958.328, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 958.328, \"end\": 958.368, \"score\": 0.461}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 958.368, \"end\": 958.388, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 958.388, \"end\": 958.488, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 958.488, \"end\": 958.508, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,861 --> 00:00:41,594\n好謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法\n\n2\n00:00:43,430 --> 00:01:01,452\n支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對\n\n3\n00:01:02,659 --> 00:01:18,931\n你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家\n\n4\n00:01:20,987 --> 00:01:44,782\n主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會\n\n5\n00:01:45,883 --> 00:02:03,589\n黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能\n\n6\n00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:20,425\n那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡\n\n7\n00:02:29,824 --> 00:02:57,192\n我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在現在報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎\n\n8\n00:02:59,025 --> 00:03:25,300\n好沒有關係啦這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法那你支不支持你自己的說法\n\n9\n00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:54,745\n專家應該要回來研究新核能技術支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費要吸引多少人才我們其實啊明年的這個預算會增加但是就是我現在就是不知道沒關係你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊對不對你不能說欸財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到\n\n10\n00:03:55,505 --> 00:04:18,419\n現在還沒啊還沒刪啊也還沒砍啊好不好我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能這是吳祖瑞講的是新核能我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少多少人多少經費對不起我時間有限\n\n11\n00:04:19,987 --> 00:04:28,612\n現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少\n\n12\n00:04:49,927 --> 00:05:06,184\n這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬\n\n13\n00:05:10,192 --> 00:05:31,845\n這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛\n\n14\n00:05:32,705 --> 00:05:54,935\n我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊\n\n15\n00:06:01,078 --> 00:06:18,106\n沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已\n\n16\n00:06:19,349 --> 00:06:31,153\n那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎2526號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求\n\n17\n00:06:46,677 --> 00:06:57,305\n請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有\n\n18\n00:06:58,191 --> 00:07:21,167\n那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来\n\n19\n00:07:22,108 --> 00:07:37,313\n怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊\n\n20\n00:07:38,829 --> 00:07:51,800\n三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是\n\n21\n00:07:52,974 --> 00:08:14,857\n大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要\n\n22\n00:08:16,478 --> 00:08:28,244\n這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊\n\n23\n00:08:33,487 --> 00:08:53,782\n那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題\n\n24\n00:08:55,154 --> 00:09:15,711\n所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法\n\n25\n00:09:17,492 --> 00:09:30,662\n所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究\n\n26\n00:09:33,564 --> 00:09:47,450\n最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能\n\n27\n00:09:48,550 --> 00:10:09,058\n我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委\n\n28\n00:10:13,521 --> 00:10:35,541\n主委這個代理主席我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失\n\n29\n00:10:37,924 --> 00:10:45,596\n這是commonsense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊\n\n30\n00:10:47,560 --> 00:11:07,921\n我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到\n\n31\n00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:24,828\n我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下\n\n32\n00:11:26,428 --> 00:11:49,333\n國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了\n\n33\n00:11:53,035 --> 00:11:56,218\n歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看缺電啊主委缺電啊\n\n34\n00:12:07,028 --> 00:12:16,093\n所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的\n\n35\n00:12:33,323 --> 00:12:46,571\n核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您\n\n36\n00:12:58,098 --> 00:13:14,374\n有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人\n\n37\n00:13:15,815 --> 00:13:39,928\n自駕車如果是我們講autonomous那自主型的那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是但是未來它是自主的自主的無人機它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢\n\n38\n00:13:41,148 --> 00:14:09,274\n現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計\n\n39\n00:14:10,174 --> 00:14:27,172\n我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導\n\n40\n00:14:29,734 --> 00:14:43,831\n對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛ElonMusk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人\n\n41\n00:14:49,597 --> 00:15:09,148\n我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活\n\n42\n00:15:09,488 --> 00:15:37,720\n我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI\n\n43\n00:15:39,574 --> 00:15:58,508\n所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12861\t41594\t好 謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法\n43430\t61452\t支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對\n62659\t78931\t你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家\n80987\t104782\t主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會\n105883\t123589\t黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能\n125490\t140425\t那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡\n149824\t177192\t我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛 那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎\n179025\t205300\t好 沒有關係啦 這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講 所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦 其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法 那你支不支持你自己的說法\n206040\t234745\t專家應該要回來研究新核能技術 支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好 那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費 要吸引多少人才我們其實啊 明年的這個預算會增加但是就是 我現在就是不知道沒關係 你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊 對不對你不能說 欸 財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到\n235505\t258419\t現在還沒啊 還沒刪啊 也還沒砍啊好不好 我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能 這是吳祖瑞講的是 新核能 我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少 多少人 多少經費對不起 我時間有限\n259987\t268612\t現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少\n289927\t306184\t這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬\n310192\t331845\t這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛\n332705\t354935\t我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊\n361078\t378106\t沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已\n379349\t391153\t那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎25 26號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求\n406677\t417305\t請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有\n418191\t441167\t那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来\n442108\t457313\t怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊\n458829\t471800\t三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是\n472974\t494857\t大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要\n496478\t508244\t這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊\n513487\t533782\t那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題\n535154\t555711\t所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒 新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法\n557492\t570662\t所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究\n573564\t587450\t最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能\n588550\t609058\t我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委\n613521\t635541\t主委 這個代理主席 我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委 你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失\n637924\t645596\t這是common sense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊\n647560\t667921\t我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇 我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到\n668502\t684828\t我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下\n686428\t709333\t國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了\n713035\t716218\t歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看 缺電啊主委 缺電啊\n727028\t736093\t所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的\n753323\t766571\t核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您\n778098\t794374\t有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人\n795815\t819928\t自駕車如果是我們講autonomous 那自主型的 那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是 但是未來它是自主的 自主的無人機 它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人 那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊 那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢\n821148\t849274\t現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計\n850174\t867172\t我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是 您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導\n869734\t883831\t對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛Elon Musk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人\n889597\t909148\t我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活\n909488\t937720\t我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI\n939574\t958508\t所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答\n","txt":"好 謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法\n支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對\n你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家\n主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會\n黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能\n那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡\n我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛 那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎\n好 沒有關係啦 這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講 所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦 其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法 那你支不支持你自己的說法\n專家應該要回來研究新核能技術 支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好 那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費 要吸引多少人才我們其實啊 明年的這個預算會增加但是就是 我現在就是不知道沒關係 你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊 對不對你不能說 欸 財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到\n現在還沒啊 還沒刪啊 也還沒砍啊好不好 我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能 這是吳祖瑞講的是 新核能 我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少 多少人 多少經費對不起 我時間有限\n現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少\n這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬\n這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛\n我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊\n沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已\n那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎25 26號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求\n請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有\n那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来\n怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊\n三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是\n大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要\n這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊\n那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題\n所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒 新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法\n所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究\n最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能\n我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委\n主委 這個代理主席 我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委 你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失\n這是common sense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊\n我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇 我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到\n我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下\n國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了\n歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看 缺電啊主委 缺電啊\n所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的\n核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您\n有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人\n自駕車如果是我們講autonomous 那自主型的 那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是 但是未來它是自主的 自主的無人機 它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人 那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊 那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢\n現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計\n我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是 您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導\n對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛Elon Musk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人\n我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活\n我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI\n所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.861 --> 00:41.594\n好謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法\n\n00:43.430 --> 01:01.452\n支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對\n\n01:02.659 --> 01:18.931\n你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家\n\n01:20.987 --> 01:44.782\n主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會\n\n01:45.883 --> 02:03.589\n黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能\n\n02:05.490 --> 02:20.425\n那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡\n\n02:29.824 --> 02:57.192\n我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在現在報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎\n\n02:59.025 --> 03:25.300\n好沒有關係啦這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法那你支不支持你自己的說法\n\n03:26.040 --> 03:54.745\n專家應該要回來研究新核能技術支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費要吸引多少人才我們其實啊明年的這個預算會增加但是就是我現在就是不知道沒關係你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊對不對你不能說欸財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到\n\n03:55.505 --> 04:18.419\n現在還沒啊還沒刪啊也還沒砍啊好不好我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能這是吳祖瑞講的是新核能我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少多少人多少經費對不起我時間有限\n\n04:19.987 --> 04:28.612\n現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少\n\n04:49.927 --> 05:06.184\n這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬\n\n05:10.192 --> 05:31.845\n這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛\n\n05:32.705 --> 05:54.935\n我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊\n\n06:01.078 --> 06:18.106\n沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已\n\n06:19.349 --> 06:31.153\n那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎2526號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求\n\n06:46.677 --> 06:57.305\n請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有\n\n06:58.191 --> 07:21.167\n那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来\n\n07:22.108 --> 07:37.313\n怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊\n\n07:38.829 --> 07:51.800\n三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是\n\n07:52.974 --> 08:14.857\n大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要\n\n08:16.478 --> 08:28.244\n這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊\n\n08:33.487 --> 08:53.782\n那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題\n\n08:55.154 --> 09:15.711\n所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法\n\n09:17.492 --> 09:30.662\n所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究\n\n09:33.564 --> 09:47.450\n最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能\n\n09:48.550 --> 10:09.058\n我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委\n\n10:13.521 --> 10:35.541\n主委這個代理主席我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失\n\n10:37.924 --> 10:45.596\n這是commonsense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊\n\n10:47.560 --> 11:07.921\n我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到\n\n11:08.502 --> 11:24.828\n我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下\n\n11:26.428 --> 11:49.333\n國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了\n\n11:53.035 --> 11:56.218\n歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看缺電啊主委缺電啊\n\n12:07.028 --> 12:16.093\n所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的\n\n12:33.323 --> 12:46.571\n核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您\n\n12:58.098 --> 13:14.374\n有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人\n\n13:15.815 --> 13:39.928\n自駕車如果是我們講autonomous那自主型的那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是但是未來它是自主的自主的無人機它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢\n\n13:41.148 --> 14:09.274\n現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計\n\n14:10.174 --> 14:27.172\n我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導\n\n14:29.734 --> 14:43.831\n對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛ElonMusk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人\n\n14:49.597 --> 15:09.148\n我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活\n\n15:09.488 --> 15:37.720\n我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI\n\n15:39.574 --> 15:58.508\n所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.861,"end":41.594,"text":"好 謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法"},{"start":43.43,"end":61.452,"text":"支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對"},{"start":62.659,"end":78.931,"text":"你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家"},{"start":80.987,"end":104.782,"text":"主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會"},{"start":105.883,"end":123.589,"text":"黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能"},{"start":125.49,"end":140.425,"text":"那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡"},{"start":149.824,"end":177.192,"text":"我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛 那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎"},{"start":179.025,"end":205.3,"text":"好 沒有關係啦 這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講 所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦 其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法 那你支不支持你自己的說法"},{"start":206.04,"end":234.745,"text":"專家應該要回來研究新核能技術 支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好 那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費 要吸引多少人才我們其實啊 明年的這個預算會增加但是就是 我現在就是不知道沒關係 你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊 對不對你不能說 欸 財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到"},{"start":235.505,"end":258.419,"text":"現在還沒啊 還沒刪啊 也還沒砍啊好不好 我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能 這是吳祖瑞講的是 新核能 我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少 多少人 多少經費對不起 我時間有限"},{"start":259.987,"end":268.612,"text":"現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少"},{"start":289.927,"end":306.184,"text":"這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬"},{"start":310.192,"end":331.845,"text":"這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛"},{"start":332.705,"end":354.935,"text":"我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊"},{"start":361.078,"end":378.106,"text":"沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已"},{"start":379.349,"end":391.153,"text":"那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎25 26號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求"},{"start":406.677,"end":417.305,"text":"請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有"},{"start":418.191,"end":441.167,"text":"那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来"},{"start":442.108,"end":457.313,"text":"怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊"},{"start":458.829,"end":471.8,"text":"三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是"},{"start":472.974,"end":494.857,"text":"大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要"},{"start":496.478,"end":508.244,"text":"這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊"},{"start":513.487,"end":533.782,"text":"那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題"},{"start":535.154,"end":555.711,"text":"所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒 新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法"},{"start":557.492,"end":570.662,"text":"所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究"},{"start":573.564,"end":587.45,"text":"最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能"},{"start":588.55,"end":609.058,"text":"我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委"},{"start":613.521,"end":635.541,"text":"主委 這個代理主席 我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委 你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失"},{"start":637.924,"end":645.596,"text":"這是common sense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊"},{"start":647.56,"end":667.921,"text":"我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇 我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到"},{"start":668.502,"end":684.828,"text":"我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下"},{"start":686.428,"end":709.333,"text":"國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了"},{"start":713.035,"end":716.218,"text":"歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看 缺電啊主委 缺電啊"},{"start":727.028,"end":736.093,"text":"所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的"},{"start":753.323,"end":766.571,"text":"核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您"},{"start":778.098,"end":794.374,"text":"有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人"},{"start":795.815,"end":819.928,"text":"自駕車如果是我們講autonomous 那自主型的 那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是 但是未來它是自主的 自主的無人機 它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人 那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊 那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢"},{"start":821.148,"end":849.274,"text":"現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計"},{"start":850.174,"end":867.172,"text":"我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是 您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導"},{"start":869.734,"end":883.831,"text":"對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛Elon Musk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人"},{"start":889.597,"end":909.148,"text":"我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活"},{"start":909.488,"end":937.72,"text":"我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI"},{"start":939.574,"end":958.508,"text":"所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":293,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時47分）謝謝代理主席，有請吳誠文主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葛召委好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委好。昨天三三會的林董說普天之下最大的笑話是有人說「臺灣不缺電，但是會停電」，他同時也說要發展AI沒核電不行，主委你怎麼看他這種說法？你支持嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我並不認為沒有核電不行，但是我們當然需要能源，各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以產業界覺得沒有核電不行，但是主委您的意思是可以沒有核電，我們還是可以發展AI，跟全天下的想法都不一樣，對不對？你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎？你知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：並不是每個國家都在發展，但是我們現在……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎？不是這樣講吧！主要發展AI的國家……"],["吳主任委員誠文：主要發展AI的國家一定是多元的能源都會探討，我們也不是說核電不能探討，其實我們也是在探討當中。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，所以我想不排除核能嘛，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不排除，只要符合安全還有核廢料處理……"],["葛委員如鈞：這不用複述了，我們都知道賴清德三原則，謝謝主委。我還是要鼓勵國科會，黃仁勳在演講當中也確實有說要蓋AI基礎設施，為什麼我剛剛一來就希望主委能夠表達您的意見，主要是因為很多人真的覺得沒有電就沒有AI，黃仁勳也說臺灣絕對要投資核能，他也有說絕對要投資核能啊！您的看法如何？認不認同他這句話──臺灣絕對要投資核能，認同嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：大家都可以表達意見，臺灣現在還是一個……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以你認不認同？對不起，我只想要問你認不認同？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我認同賴總統講的。"],["葛委員如鈞：哇！主委，您是一個專業的科學政務官，對於科學的論述，到了這裡您都還要選擇性的來閃避、逃避……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有閃避，報告委員……"],["葛委員如鈞：我還是覺得非常可惜啊！黃仁勳的說法……不過沒有關係……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，賴總統明確表達是可以討論的，我們科學的證據……"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛，這其實是有共識的，為什麼你不能說你不反對黃仁勳的說法？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，現在……"],["葛委員如鈞：黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能，這有問題嗎？好，沒有關係。使用核能真的不應該被污名化，黃仁勳也是這樣講，所以大家真的不要害怕。我們也看到，其實你自己就講了，真的不需要一定只能支持誰的說法，好不好？不是說講到核電，就只能支持賴總統的說法，你可以支持你自己的說法……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我支持。"],["葛委員如鈞：那你支不支持你自己的說法，專家應該回來研究新核能技術，支持吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然支持。"],["葛委員如鈞：可以支持嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我公開地講，我當然支持。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好！那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵，要編多少經費、吸引多少人才？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們明年的預算會增加，但是我就是現在不知道我們財劃法修正案……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，你先照你的計畫講，我們也可以一起來爭取，對不對？你不能說財劃法這樣，可能會發生什麼事情，我們哪些事情就做不到，現在還沒刪，也還沒砍，好不好？我們來預期一下，所以你預期要增加多少？要吸引多少人才？新核能，這是吳主委講的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR……"],["葛委員如鈞：多少人？多少經費？對不起，我時間有限。"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在還沒有確定，因為……"],["葛委員如鈞：不是已經在編了嗎？你剛剛跟我說已經在編，然後又要乘機講一下什麼財劃法，現在到底要編多少？預計編多少？編了沒？是不是還沒啊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：已經規劃了，但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院，現在因為財劃法修正案……"],["葛委員如鈞：願望嘛！我們一起來努力。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我的願望就是如果我們明年可以編到1,800億的話……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，那是要多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：明年至少要編5億。"],["葛委員如鈞：5億，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上……"],["吳主任委員誠文：就我們現有的……"],["葛委員如鈞：新核能嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，新核能。"],["葛委員如鈞：新核能，好。當然，一則以喜，一則以憂，因為過去3年國科會投入SMR的經費只有1,700萬，我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子，以我們投入在新核能的經費來講，我覺得現在到5億，有增加了，但是事實上全世界……"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個條件就是明年的預算如果被財劃法修正案影響到，我就沒有辦法。"],["葛委員如鈞：我還沒有請您發言，我都知道，好不好？我們一起來努力。我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億臺幣起跳，也有到600億臺幣，當然，我們不能跟企業相比，但是我還是希望未來5億我們一起來努力，不管什麼樣的條件，能源真的太重要了，沒有能源就沒有AI，希望都不要受到影響。","另外，我也想請教你供電量的穩定度，因為你們說多元發電、沒有核電也可以有AI，這是你剛剛的說法。我們來看一下，其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量、實際的用電量都有很大的差距，有的甚至只用到一半而已。看起來電很夠，可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況，有彰化23日停電、鹽埕18日停電、中壢24日停電、八里25日及26日都停電。我想請教一下主委，過去有沒有發生過台電跟園管局說，因為有供電的狀況，要請園區降低用電量，或者是園管局為了配合台電，請廠商降低用電量的情事？有沒有發生過這樣的事情？有還是沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：過去沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：過去完全沒有？過去完全沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：那為什麼我們現在在園區還看到一堆什麼節電計畫？為什麼還要搞光電板？沒關係。未來可能有，為什麼？因為……"],["吳主任委員誠文：節能是大家都要做的。"],["葛委員如鈞：當然，但是你還有那麼多電，沒有關係。我們說未來AI產業進駐很可能會發生缺電的狀況，國科會可能還是要做好準備，未來怎麼去因應可能AI需求的電量會有指數型的成長？作為園區的大家長，希望能夠讓大家對臺灣的用電有信心。如果這麼有信心，你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促臺灣要有核電？你覺得為什麼？三三會、黃仁勳、台達電董事長，大家是愛核愛到怎麼了嗎？你覺得為什麼會這樣？我們很夠，你說沒有缺電，以後AI來了也不會缺電，他們搞錯了，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有，大家看到臺灣產業發展非常地好，當然也是很期待我們會發展得更好，所以未來的用電量會提升……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒錯。"],["吳主任委員誠文：經濟部也很努力，經濟部也跟我們國科會保證，未來園區的用電按照我們的規劃是可以供給的。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，其實就是要面向未來，而且要料敵機先，要知道未來可能還會用更多，不能說覺得未來可以就躺著不幹。所以我們來看新的園區擴建，剛剛有提到，其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們經濟部部長只說2032年可能夠，外界有很多不同看法，我們就不說了。可是到2050年要夠，我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究、試驗或預留空間？有沒有考慮過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然，如果經費許可的話，我們一定會投入研究，這沒問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以我也希望去研究一下在園區裡面，為什麼？這幾天猶他州開始在討論，我們賴總統雖然新核能還沒準備好，但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快，2026年可能就要做上百到上千個SMR聯合發電的做法。我希望主委作為臺灣在科研上面、在園區上面的指導者，應該要料敵致勝，能夠先往前看、先往前做，可不可以瞭解一下？好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，沒問題，我們研究最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能是安全的，核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心，這個研究我要投入……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，不用幫賴總統廣告，我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能，這根本不用講嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我跟委員報告，過去的核電的確是不安全，的確是喔。很可能因為人為的疏失，會產生爐心融解這個事喔，過去曾經有這種可能性存在，未來我們要確保這個事不會發生，所以我要投入研究是這個目的……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，好，你說。"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個不會發生，我們直接未來使用新核能的機會就大為提升。"],["葛委員如鈞：代理主席，我跟你借一點時間。對於主委你這樣的做法，我不是非常能夠理解。有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過？有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個我沒有研究過。"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有恆星會消失？這是common sense！這是common sense！"],["吳主任委員誠文：恆星時間到了就會消失。"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！我們地球人是不是要很緊張？我們生活的環境是不是很危險？我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講……"],["吳主任委員誠文：危險性……"],["葛委員如鈞：你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於能源現在的主流討論，就像你剛剛講的，我們的預算可能會有這樣的刪除，所以哪些、哪些事情都做不到，我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍，我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力，這一點我言盡至此，我希望您好好地感受一下……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，可以讓我講嗎？國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全，核廢料處理可以減廢，所以我們……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，我剛剛都認同，我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展……"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有錯……"],["葛委員如鈞：但您剛剛想要跟全臺灣及全世界的人民強調，所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心融解，這是你作為科學家在這裡……"],["吳主任委員誠文：過去歷史上已經發生好幾次了喔，所以它不是……"],["葛委員如鈞：歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件……"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以我們希望……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我跟委員講的……"],["葛委員如鈞：你看缺電，主委……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我講的是事實啦！"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，缺電啦！好啦，所以你看，我不能說燈光沒了，臺灣明天要停電了，我不會這樣講嘛，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，我今天時間有限，我還有幾個問題要就教於您，好不好？我希望我們能夠正向，我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我非常正向，剛剛委員說我講的那句話，我是很正向的喔。"],["葛委員如鈞：很正向說……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我邀請我們核能領域的專家回來研究，我是很正向的喔。"],["葛委員如鈞：我不是在講這句話，沒有關係，主委，謝謝你，我支持核能的專家要回來，千萬不能流失。","最後有幾個點我想問，我還是要感謝主委及國科會的同仁把智慧機器人、人型機器人納入未來可能的百億計畫當中，但是我們看到主委有一個說法滿特別的，你說智慧機器人包含所有人型、四隻腳的、翅膀型的、水下的，都可以算是機器人百億的範圍，這會不會有點大？我想請教一下，特斯拉算不算機器人？"],["吳主任委員誠文：自駕車如果是我們講autonomous自主型的……"],["葛委員如鈞：是不是機器人？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然是機器人。"],["葛委員如鈞：無人機是不是機器人？"],["吳主任委員誠文：無人機現在還不是，但是未來它是自主的無人機的話，它也是一個機器人。"],["葛委員如鈞：到底有什麼東西不算機器人？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個「人」，這是robot……"],["葛委員如鈞：那掃地機器人也是機器人，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：也是啊，robot……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄這個東西呢？現在我只問你一個問題，謝謝主委，人型機器人你打算要在你這個百億裡面占幾趴？就這麼簡單。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們這邊沒有設定……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以表示臺灣100億元的機器人計畫投入進去，也有可能全部做掃地機器人，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不可能啦！依照社會需求、產業發展……"],["葛委員如鈞：比例你總有個規劃吧！"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以我問您人型機器人的比例會是多少，有沒有預計？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員，我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一方面，我們是學術自由，我怎麼可能限定一個比例。"],["葛委員如鈞：不是，您要規劃啊！否則你100億下去，會不會到最後人型機器人根本沒有案件、收不到？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我的規劃有非常重要的原則，這是智慧機器人，就是AI來領導，對人類的服務是一個重要的工具，用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以，只要是有社會需求、能夠幫助人類，我們都發展。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，我只是想跟您溝通……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我不能設定比例啦！"],["葛委員如鈞：現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人，黃仁勳、Elon Musk說，未來會有100億臺的人型機器人，我們如果走錯方向，我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的既有東西，我們很可能會選錯邊、選錯路。"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，你秀的這個照片是在擂臺上打鬥，這種不是我的目標，我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活。"],["葛委員如鈞：我是要展現它的技術，主委，你搞錯我意思了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們希望技術比它好。"],["葛委員如鈞：我是要展現它平衡的技術、我是要展現它可以跑動的技術……"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，平衡。"],["葛委員如鈞：我是要跟主委表示，這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人。"],["吳主任委員誠文：平衡是小腦，我們要研究的是大腦為主，這是最重要的，對於小腦的部分，臺灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了，所以我們有能力，現在最缺的是大腦、是AI。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有關係，未來希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃，到底有多少是掃地機器人的大腦、有多少是人型機器人的大腦，我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃，我們再來一起支持，好不好？謝謝主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葛委員，請官員跟主委回座。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞）：接下來有請劉書彬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-14","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","吳沛憶","萬美玲","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","張雅琳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","葉元之","范雲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算解凍案22案","agenda_id":"1145601_00001"}}}