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\"end\": 763.626, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,745 --> 00:00:04,079\n好主席謝謝麻煩請林主委林主委\n\n2\n00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:35,215\n各位好新北三峽發生重大的車禍意外我想國人都非常的難過但現在最重要是釐清真相跟還原事實我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料記錄器那到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去那我們有沒有什麼樣的一個比較新的進度來還原整個事實的真相\n\n3\n00:00:36,495 --> 00:00:57,530\n這個案子我們的EDI就是所謂行程電腦已經開始在解讀那我們跟檢調單位目前在合作那相關的資料都有在互通因為基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則我們目前還是在因為這個案子EDI的解讀一般差不多要三四個禮拜但初步因為它要同步\n\n4\n00:00:58,010 --> 00:01:18,572\nEDR要三四個禮拜但對於我們來講現在國人想要了解的是說到底這件事情它是因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了所謂的高齡駕車的一個年限的緊縮從本來75歲往下修70歲那一時間大家以為是說是不是高齡者的一個高齡駕車的問題\n\n5\n00:01:20,074 --> 00:01:40,231\n那但是又看到的是他有400公尺內四次的事故尤其是一開始的時候在那個路口有所謂的肇事逃逸所以我們現在國人大家想問的是到底他是故意還是過失是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸那這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有一個比較清楚明白了解嗎\n\n6\n00:01:43,562 --> 00:01:58,658\n這個要等這個我剛剛講ED要解讀出來之後還要配合所有的CCTV還有配合這個駕駛的訪談等等這個整個整個一系列的這個調查還有很多要磨合在一起當然\n\n7\n00:01:59,258 --> 00:02:26,193\n就是因為有很多所以說國人現在想要了解是說我們到底各單位的進度或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理讓國人早日了解真相三人死亡十二人受傷這難道不應該重視嗎我們已經動員整個全會大概有十五個人力在集中火力在調查這個案子是所以什麼時候因為以往的運安事故發生一個月才會公佈初步的調查報告沒有錯\n\n8\n00:02:26,653 --> 00:02:54,783\n那你現在又在推說因為這個可能檢調現在正在偵辦當中但我們其實對檢調也有點為詞啊因為也有網路上面講說同病房的人好像有聽到說這一個加害者他已經醒過來了但到目前為止怎麼都看到還沒有做筆錄那當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人再去做看管這一個加害者只要要一清醒可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛\n\n9\n00:02:56,156 --> 00:03:16,758\n但現在重點是各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解還是說真的如同陰謀論來講這個背後可能八股很大可能是某某某綠營調查咖還是怎麼樣還是跟誰關係好所以大家想要大事化小小事化無有可能嗎這個我沒有聽說\n\n10\n00:03:18,018 --> 00:03:42,073\n不可能嘛主委這不好笑不是主委我們要的是真相要的是還原事實好來看一下喔今年3月交通部長陳士凱才講說行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國死所以修法要更嚴厲但昨天交通部周年記者會卻改口說行人地獄只是形容詞見仁見智\n\n11\n00:03:43,766 --> 00:03:59,742\n我想請教以主管道安交安的主管機關這種說法運安會你能夠接受嗎我們尊重交通部主管機關啦因為我們是事故的調查機關這角度是不太一樣的\n\n12\n00:04:01,015 --> 00:04:29,338\n那可以接受說現在到底行人地獄在台灣國外國際觀光客為什麼會有行人地獄這四個字其實本席身為中華民國的一份子我也覺得很難過啊當國外的遊客來到台灣然後就感受到說是行人地獄的時候其實這是一竿子打翻一船人可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名不也就是過去不管是道路不管是駕駛人不管是相關的單位大家的疏忽累積而成\n\n13\n00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:46,104\n那現在講說行人地域只是形容詞見仁見智那我們的運安會能夠協助是不是能夠給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促啊主委\n\n14\n00:04:46,994 --> 00:05:13,693\n我們這個案子調查出來之後可能會有系統化的風險問題我們會給交通部做建議調查出來之後會有系統化的方式給交通部做建議對好來那我請教第一時間我剛剛開眾名義就講第一時間三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講是說要調修這所謂的高齡駕車的部分當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況\n\n15\n00:05:16,135 --> 00:05:32,116\n但是就針對這一個事件初步判斷感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係那主委對於這一連串我們台灣社會最近比較多的媒體報導的高齡駕車事件事故你有什麼樣的建議\n\n16\n00:05:33,095 --> 00:05:50,729\n我覺得我們是應該跟交通部一起來共同努力交通部雖然已經在第一時間有給國人一個交代可是這個案子是屬於調查案子調查案子的過程我們應該要更加努力所以我剛剛幫我們投入了15個人力這個幾乎是排擠掉其他的案子了\n\n17\n00:05:53,544 --> 00:06:15,274\n這重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查給國人適時真相了解啊我每一次我都講嘛運安會今天是解凍案報告我每次都講說運安會來我們可以很心平氣和討論交通的精進交通的改善這都好事啊因為代表沒有事故發生啊沒有事故發生我們超前部署防範未然啊\n\n18\n00:06:15,894 --> 00:06:45,078\n但現在既然事故發生了我們要的是記取這次的教訓避免下次再犯所以才要找出這件事件的真實原因是肇事逃逸是荒唐駕車是人為因素是車輛控管不良還是高齡駕車這些綜合出來之後我們才能做政策來對症下藥啊不是嗎所以後續高齡駕駛的一連串的事故我們運安會會有提出相關建議\n\n19\n00:06:47,082 --> 00:07:07,509\n是不是能夠針對這個不管是現在從75歲調降到70歲但是70歲是換照他還是有那我們那時候也提過是說你的高齡駕駛除了我的身心的感知以外可能還有其他的部分需要再進一步的做評估來不是只是單純年齡一分法\n\n20\n00:07:10,508 --> 00:07:28,770\n確實沒有錯不是只有單純的問題所以運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業的建議給交通部因為交通部講說三個月內會把配套措施出來那我們運安會這邊是不是也可以提供參考其他國外的案例參考國外的制度我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們\n\n21\n00:07:30,988 --> 00:07:47,065\n因為我們分成四個分組在調查嘛操作分組車輛分組生還因素的還有紀錄區分組那這四個分組在15個人力裡面我們所調查出來之後還要去同步還要解讀還要訪談我只是請教那交通部有沒有找雲南會開會過了\n\n22\n00:07:49,037 --> 00:08:02,308\n還沒有目前還沒有目前還沒有三個月內他們就要提出來就運安會我覺得很重要的一個機關也是獨立自主的機關調查事故的機關專業機關交通部不早開會莫名其妙\n\n23\n00:08:03,581 --> 00:08:18,362\n我們是不是能夠主動的問交通部說有什麼樣可以協助的地方參與這次的一個調整的政策開會溝通提供專業意見事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議裡面有找他們來看過會\n\n24\n00:08:19,895 --> 00:08:35,316\n有找他們來專業組織婚婚會他們有來過主委我講的是兩件事嘛專案小組是你們現在在組成是調查新北市三峽事故這個是專案小組但本席現在講的是交通部因應這一個案件之後他就調整了高齡駕車的\n\n25\n00:08:36,778 --> 00:08:58,814\n年齡比例從75歲變到70歲然後他說他要做相關的配套但是這個部分跟這一件事情一個是獨立案件我們要真相請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相但另外一個部分是交通部做出一個反應但這個反應其實它並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因可是交通部還是做了\n\n26\n00:08:59,654 --> 00:09:27,080\n就是所謂的高齡駕車從75歲變70歲那本席也尊重因為過去也有一些討論那只是說現在一連串的事故裡面也有高齡駕車它可能不是這一個獨立案件的主要原因可是既然要講高齡駕車它可能是另外一個事件的時候我們運動會要提出相關的建議啊你不能講說你這個獨立案件你們又找交通部開會然後這一個高齡駕車的政策你們就放著不管啊\n\n27\n00:09:28,050 --> 00:09:47,578\n不會啦不會嘛因為我們我們主動一點好不好我們的調查重點裡面也會考慮到這個駕駛行為調查搞造的體檢制度調查的這個這個管理制度這裡面就會涉及高齡的問題好來那主委我最後一個問題請教這可能也跟您過去轉眼雲過去是民航局副局長\n\n28\n00:09:48,658 --> 00:10:11,589\n那最近也有另外一個年齡的問題卻是機師的人口缺口所以交通部要修正所謂的航空人員檢定給照管理規則擴大放寬年齡的範圍從最低要放寬到18歲並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲放寬到不超過65歲\n\n29\n00:10:15,546 --> 00:10:42,271\n所以在另外一個航空的部分因為機師的缺口反而他是要放寬年齡的級距從高齡的60歲現行60歲的制度要多放寬5歲變65歲所以一方面路上他是要降低年齡的限度從75歲降到70歲他就要受相關的換照可是航空他卻是要65歲放寬60歲放寬到65歲\n\n30\n00:10:46,064 --> 00:11:11,296\n主委以你的專業判斷你有什麼樣的看法這是兩個不同的專業領域是兩個不同的專業領域但是回歸同一件事情都是年齡的放寬一個是緊縮一個是放寬我相信平常局他一定有配套措施啊是我現在想問的是你不能只是相信因為運安會你是防範未來的專業單位嘛那我現在想要請教說運安會您專業的看法是什麼他60歲當初會設60歲的門檻\n\n31\n00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:41,297\n那因為現在是機師的人口缺人力缺所以他要放寬5歲那這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷還是說他有沒有你應該建議說他要再多做什麼樣的一個檢測還是就是單純的就放寬就放寬了應該不會他有必要做事絕對有必要做事能不能了解一下他不會去單純是這樣做我們可以去了解\n\n32\n00:11:42,509 --> 00:12:06,924\n主委這個是本席就找到的新聞資料他就是直接講交通部你下修檢定年齡到18歲同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲本席還是站在我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估但是就是說在這個放寬的過程當初會這樣子規定並且現在的放寬如果說只是因為人力不足而要補這個人力缺口就放寬5歲的話那5歲的標準是什麼\n\n33\n00:12:11,055 --> 00:12:23,485\n那如果說以後人力再不夠再放寬變10歲變15歲這個部分越南會是不是能夠也來做掌握跟交通部來做一個了解\n\n34\n00:12:25,067 --> 00:12:43,626\n我們可以開個專案會議來跟他了解一下我還是強調交通沒有最好只有更好我們大家都是在防範未來都是希望把風險降到最低窮盡一切的可能把風險降到最低這是我們共同的使命再拜託主委好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n745\t4079\t好 主席謝謝 麻煩請林主委林主委\n8700\t35215\t各位好 新北三峽發生重大的車禍意外我想國人都非常的難過但現在最重要是釐清真相跟還原事實我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料記錄器那到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去那我們有沒有什麼樣的一個比較新的進度來還原整個事實的真相\n36495\t57530\t這個案子我們的EDI就是所謂行程電腦已經開始在解讀那我們跟檢調單位目前在合作那相關的資料都有在互通因為基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則我們目前還是在因為這個案子EDI的解讀一般差不多要三四個禮拜但初步因為它要同步\n58010\t78572\tEDR要三四個禮拜但對於我們來講現在國人想要了解的是說到底這件事情它是因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了所謂的高齡駕車的一個年限的緊縮從本來75歲往下修70歲那一時間大家以為是說是不是高齡者的一個高齡駕車的問題\n80074\t100231\t那但是又看到的是他有400公尺內四次的事故尤其是一開始的時候在那個路口有所謂的肇事逃逸所以我們現在國人大家想問的是到底他是故意還是過失是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸那這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有一個比較清楚明白了解嗎\n103562\t118658\t這個要等這個我剛剛講ED要解讀出來之後還要配合所有的CCTV還有配合這個駕駛的訪談等等這個整個整個一系列的這個調查還有很多要磨合在一起當然\n119258\t146193\t就是因為有很多所以說國人現在想要了解是說我們到底各單位的進度或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理讓國人早日了解真相三人死亡十二人受傷這難道不應該重視嗎我們已經動員整個全會大概有十五個人力在集中火力在調查這個案子是所以什麼時候因為以往的運安事故發生一個月才會公佈初步的調查報告沒有錯\n146653\t174783\t那你現在又在推說因為這個可能檢調現在正在偵辦當中但我們其實對檢調也有點為詞啊因為也有網路上面講說同病房的人好像有聽到說這一個加害者他已經醒過來了但到目前為止怎麼都看到還沒有做筆錄那當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人再去做看管這一個加害者只要要一清醒可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛\n176156\t196758\t但現在重點是各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解還是說真的如同陰謀論來講這個背後可能八股很大可能是某某某綠營調查咖還是怎麼樣還是跟誰關係好所以大家想要大事化小 小事化無有可能嗎這個我沒有聽說\n198018\t222073\t不可能嘛 主委這不好笑不是 主委我們要的是真相 要的是還原事實好 來看一下喔今年3月 交通部長陳士凱才講說行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國死所以修法要更嚴厲但昨天交通部周年記者會卻改口說行人地獄只是形容詞 見仁見智\n223766\t239742\t我想請教以主管道安交安的主管機關這種說法運安會你能夠接受嗎我們尊重交通部主管機關啦因為我們是事故的調查機關這角度是不太一樣的\n241015\t269338\t那可以接受說現在到底行人地獄在台灣國外國際觀光客為什麼會有行人地獄這四個字其實本席身為中華民國的一份子我也覺得很難過啊當國外的遊客來到台灣然後就感受到說是行人地獄的時候其實這是一竿子打翻一船人可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名不也就是過去不管是道路不管是駕駛人不管是相關的單位大家的疏忽累積而成\n270950\t286104\t那現在講說行人地域只是形容詞見仁見智那我們的運安會能夠協助是不是能夠給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促啊 主委\n286994\t313693\t我們這個案子調查出來之後可能會有系統化的風險問題我們會給交通部做建議調查出來之後會有系統化的方式給交通部做建議對好來那我請教第一時間我剛剛開眾名義就講第一時間三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講是說要調修這所謂的高齡駕車的部分當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況\n316135\t332116\t但是就針對這一個事件初步判斷感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係那主委對於這一連串我們台灣社會最近比較多的媒體報導的高齡駕車事件事故你有什麼樣的建議\n333095\t350729\t我覺得我們是應該跟交通部一起來共同努力交通部雖然已經在第一時間有給國人一個交代可是這個案子是屬於調查案子調查案子的過程我們應該要更加努力所以我剛剛幫我們投入了15個人力這個幾乎是排擠掉其他的案子了\n353544\t375274\t這重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查給國人適時真相了解啊我每一次我都講嘛 運安會今天是解凍案報告我每次都講說運安會來我們可以很心平氣和討論交通的精進交通的改善這都好事啊 因為代表沒有事故發生啊沒有事故發生我們超前部署防範未然啊\n375894\t405078\t但現在既然事故發生了我們要的是記取這次的教訓避免下次再犯所以才要找出這件事件的真實原因是肇事逃逸是荒唐駕車是人為因素是車輛控管不良還是高齡駕車這些綜合出來之後我們才能做政策來對症下藥啊不是嗎所以後續高齡駕駛的一連串的事故我們運安會會有提出相關建議\n407082\t427509\t是不是能夠針對這個不管是現在從75歲調降到70歲但是70歲是換照他還是有那我們那時候也提過是說你的高齡駕駛除了我的身心的感知以外可能還有其他的部分需要再進一步的做評估來不是只是單純年齡一分法\n430508\t448770\t確實沒有錯 不是只有單純的問題所以運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業的建議給交通部因為交通部講說三個月內會把配套措施出來那我們運安會這邊是不是也可以提供參考其他國外的案例 參考國外的制度我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們\n450988\t467065\t因為我們分成四個分組在調查嘛操作分組 車輛分組 生還因素的還有紀錄區分組那這四個分組在15個人力裡面我們所調查出來之後還要去同步 還要解讀 還要訪談我只是請教 那交通部有沒有找 雲南會開會過了\n469037\t482308\t還沒有目前還沒有目前還沒有三個月內他們就要提出來就運安會我覺得很重要的一個機關也是獨立自主的機關調查事故的機關專業機關交通部不早開會莫名其妙\n483581\t498362\t我們是不是能夠主動的問交通部說有什麼樣可以協助的地方參與這次的一個調整的政策開會溝通提供專業意見事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議裡面有找他們來看過會\n499895\t515316\t有找他們來 專業組織婚婚會他們有來過主委我講的是兩件事嘛專案小組是你們現在在組成是調查新北市三峽事故這個是專案小組但本席現在講的是交通部因應這一個案件之後他就調整了高齡駕車的\n516778\t538814\t年齡比例 從75歲變到70歲然後他說他要做相關的配套 但是這個部分跟這一件事情一個是獨立案件 我們要真相請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相但另外一個部分是 交通部做出一個反應但這個反應其實它並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因可是交通部還是做了\n539654\t567080\t就是所謂的高齡駕車 從75歲變70歲那本席也尊重 因為過去也有一些討論那只是說 現在一連串的事故裡面也有高齡駕車它可能不是這一個獨立案件的主要原因可是既然要講高齡駕車 它可能是另外一個事件的時候我們運動會要提出相關的建議啊你不能講說你這個獨立案件 你們又找交通部開會然後這一個高齡駕車的政策 你們就放著不管啊\n568050\t587578\t不會啦不會嘛因為我們我們主動一點好不好我們的調查重點裡面也會考慮到這個駕駛行為調查搞造的體檢制度調查的這個這個管理制度這裡面就會涉及高齡的問題好來那主委我最後一個問題請教這可能也跟您過去轉眼雲過去是民航局副局長\n588658\t611589\t那最近也有另外一個年齡的問題卻是機師的人口缺口所以交通部要修正所謂的航空人員檢定給照管理規則擴大放寬年齡的範圍從最低要放寬到18歲並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲放寬到不超過65歲\n615546\t642271\t所以在另外一個航空的部分因為機師的缺口反而他是要放寬年齡的級距從高齡的60歲現行60歲的制度要多放寬5歲變65歲所以一方面路上他是要降低年齡的限度從75歲降到70歲他就要受相關的換照可是航空他卻是要65歲放寬60歲放寬到65歲\n646064\t671296\t主委 以你的專業判斷 你有什麼樣的看法這是兩個不同的專業領域是 兩個不同的專業領域 但是回歸同一件事情都是年齡的放寬一個是緊縮 一個是放寬我相信平常局他一定有配套措施啊是 我現在想問的是你不能只是相信 因為運安會你是防範未來的專業單位嘛那我現在想要請教說 運安會您專業的看法是什麼他60歲 當初會設60歲的門檻\n675970\t701297\t那因為現在是機師的人口缺 人力缺所以他要放寬5歲那這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷還是說他有沒有 你應該建議說他要再多做什麼樣的一個檢測還是就是單純的就放寬就放寬了應該不會 他有必要做事 絕對有必要做事能不能了解一下他不會去單純是這樣做 我們可以去了解\n702509\t726924\t主委這個是本席就找到的新聞資料他就是直接講交通部你下修檢定年齡到18歲同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲本席還是站在我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估但是就是說在這個放寬的過程當初會這樣子規定並且現在的放寬如果說只是因為人力不足而要補這個人力缺口就放寬5歲的話那5歲的標準是什麼\n731055\t743485\t那如果說以後人力再不夠 再放寬變10歲變15歲這個部分 越南會是不是能夠也來做掌握跟交通部來做一個了解\n745067\t763626\t我們可以開個專案會議來跟他了解一下我還是強調交通沒有最好只有更好我們大家都是在防範未來都是希望把風險降到最低窮盡一切的可能把風險降到最低這是我們共同的使命再拜託主委好嗎好謝謝\n","txt":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請林主委林主委\n各位好 新北三峽發生重大的車禍意外我想國人都非常的難過但現在最重要是釐清真相跟還原事實我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料記錄器那到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去那我們有沒有什麼樣的一個比較新的進度來還原整個事實的真相\n這個案子我們的EDI就是所謂行程電腦已經開始在解讀那我們跟檢調單位目前在合作那相關的資料都有在互通因為基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則我們目前還是在因為這個案子EDI的解讀一般差不多要三四個禮拜但初步因為它要同步\nEDR要三四個禮拜但對於我們來講現在國人想要了解的是說到底這件事情它是因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了所謂的高齡駕車的一個年限的緊縮從本來75歲往下修70歲那一時間大家以為是說是不是高齡者的一個高齡駕車的問題\n那但是又看到的是他有400公尺內四次的事故尤其是一開始的時候在那個路口有所謂的肇事逃逸所以我們現在國人大家想問的是到底他是故意還是過失是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸那這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有一個比較清楚明白了解嗎\n這個要等這個我剛剛講ED要解讀出來之後還要配合所有的CCTV還有配合這個駕駛的訪談等等這個整個整個一系列的這個調查還有很多要磨合在一起當然\n就是因為有很多所以說國人現在想要了解是說我們到底各單位的進度或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理讓國人早日了解真相三人死亡十二人受傷這難道不應該重視嗎我們已經動員整個全會大概有十五個人力在集中火力在調查這個案子是所以什麼時候因為以往的運安事故發生一個月才會公佈初步的調查報告沒有錯\n那你現在又在推說因為這個可能檢調現在正在偵辦當中但我們其實對檢調也有點為詞啊因為也有網路上面講說同病房的人好像有聽到說這一個加害者他已經醒過來了但到目前為止怎麼都看到還沒有做筆錄那當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人再去做看管這一個加害者只要要一清醒可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛\n但現在重點是各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解還是說真的如同陰謀論來講這個背後可能八股很大可能是某某某綠營調查咖還是怎麼樣還是跟誰關係好所以大家想要大事化小 小事化無有可能嗎這個我沒有聽說\n不可能嘛 主委這不好笑不是 主委我們要的是真相 要的是還原事實好 來看一下喔今年3月 交通部長陳士凱才講說行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國死所以修法要更嚴厲但昨天交通部周年記者會卻改口說行人地獄只是形容詞 見仁見智\n我想請教以主管道安交安的主管機關這種說法運安會你能夠接受嗎我們尊重交通部主管機關啦因為我們是事故的調查機關這角度是不太一樣的\n那可以接受說現在到底行人地獄在台灣國外國際觀光客為什麼會有行人地獄這四個字其實本席身為中華民國的一份子我也覺得很難過啊當國外的遊客來到台灣然後就感受到說是行人地獄的時候其實這是一竿子打翻一船人可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名不也就是過去不管是道路不管是駕駛人不管是相關的單位大家的疏忽累積而成\n那現在講說行人地域只是形容詞見仁見智那我們的運安會能夠協助是不是能夠給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促啊 主委\n我們這個案子調查出來之後可能會有系統化的風險問題我們會給交通部做建議調查出來之後會有系統化的方式給交通部做建議對好來那我請教第一時間我剛剛開眾名義就講第一時間三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講是說要調修這所謂的高齡駕車的部分當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況\n但是就針對這一個事件初步判斷感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係那主委對於這一連串我們台灣社會最近比較多的媒體報導的高齡駕車事件事故你有什麼樣的建議\n我覺得我們是應該跟交通部一起來共同努力交通部雖然已經在第一時間有給國人一個交代可是這個案子是屬於調查案子調查案子的過程我們應該要更加努力所以我剛剛幫我們投入了15個人力這個幾乎是排擠掉其他的案子了\n這重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查給國人適時真相了解啊我每一次我都講嘛 運安會今天是解凍案報告我每次都講說運安會來我們可以很心平氣和討論交通的精進交通的改善這都好事啊 因為代表沒有事故發生啊沒有事故發生我們超前部署防範未然啊\n但現在既然事故發生了我們要的是記取這次的教訓避免下次再犯所以才要找出這件事件的真實原因是肇事逃逸是荒唐駕車是人為因素是車輛控管不良還是高齡駕車這些綜合出來之後我們才能做政策來對症下藥啊不是嗎所以後續高齡駕駛的一連串的事故我們運安會會有提出相關建議\n是不是能夠針對這個不管是現在從75歲調降到70歲但是70歲是換照他還是有那我們那時候也提過是說你的高齡駕駛除了我的身心的感知以外可能還有其他的部分需要再進一步的做評估來不是只是單純年齡一分法\n確實沒有錯 不是只有單純的問題所以運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業的建議給交通部因為交通部講說三個月內會把配套措施出來那我們運安會這邊是不是也可以提供參考其他國外的案例 參考國外的制度我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們\n因為我們分成四個分組在調查嘛操作分組 車輛分組 生還因素的還有紀錄區分組那這四個分組在15個人力裡面我們所調查出來之後還要去同步 還要解讀 還要訪談我只是請教 那交通部有沒有找 雲南會開會過了\n還沒有目前還沒有目前還沒有三個月內他們就要提出來就運安會我覺得很重要的一個機關也是獨立自主的機關調查事故的機關專業機關交通部不早開會莫名其妙\n我們是不是能夠主動的問交通部說有什麼樣可以協助的地方參與這次的一個調整的政策開會溝通提供專業意見事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議裡面有找他們來看過會\n有找他們來 專業組織婚婚會他們有來過主委我講的是兩件事嘛專案小組是你們現在在組成是調查新北市三峽事故這個是專案小組但本席現在講的是交通部因應這一個案件之後他就調整了高齡駕車的\n年齡比例 從75歲變到70歲然後他說他要做相關的配套 但是這個部分跟這一件事情一個是獨立案件 我們要真相請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相但另外一個部分是 交通部做出一個反應但這個反應其實它並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因可是交通部還是做了\n就是所謂的高齡駕車 從75歲變70歲那本席也尊重 因為過去也有一些討論那只是說 現在一連串的事故裡面也有高齡駕車它可能不是這一個獨立案件的主要原因可是既然要講高齡駕車 它可能是另外一個事件的時候我們運動會要提出相關的建議啊你不能講說你這個獨立案件 你們又找交通部開會然後這一個高齡駕車的政策 你們就放著不管啊\n不會啦不會嘛因為我們我們主動一點好不好我們的調查重點裡面也會考慮到這個駕駛行為調查搞造的體檢制度調查的這個這個管理制度這裡面就會涉及高齡的問題好來那主委我最後一個問題請教這可能也跟您過去轉眼雲過去是民航局副局長\n那最近也有另外一個年齡的問題卻是機師的人口缺口所以交通部要修正所謂的航空人員檢定給照管理規則擴大放寬年齡的範圍從最低要放寬到18歲並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲放寬到不超過65歲\n所以在另外一個航空的部分因為機師的缺口反而他是要放寬年齡的級距從高齡的60歲現行60歲的制度要多放寬5歲變65歲所以一方面路上他是要降低年齡的限度從75歲降到70歲他就要受相關的換照可是航空他卻是要65歲放寬60歲放寬到65歲\n主委 以你的專業判斷 你有什麼樣的看法這是兩個不同的專業領域是 兩個不同的專業領域 但是回歸同一件事情都是年齡的放寬一個是緊縮 一個是放寬我相信平常局他一定有配套措施啊是 我現在想問的是你不能只是相信 因為運安會你是防範未來的專業單位嘛那我現在想要請教說 運安會您專業的看法是什麼他60歲 當初會設60歲的門檻\n那因為現在是機師的人口缺 人力缺所以他要放寬5歲那這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷還是說他有沒有 你應該建議說他要再多做什麼樣的一個檢測還是就是單純的就放寬就放寬了應該不會 他有必要做事 絕對有必要做事能不能了解一下他不會去單純是這樣做 我們可以去了解\n主委這個是本席就找到的新聞資料他就是直接講交通部你下修檢定年齡到18歲同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲本席還是站在我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估但是就是說在這個放寬的過程當初會這樣子規定並且現在的放寬如果說只是因為人力不足而要補這個人力缺口就放寬5歲的話那5歲的標準是什麼\n那如果說以後人力再不夠 再放寬變10歲變15歲這個部分 越南會是不是能夠也來做掌握跟交通部來做一個了解\n我們可以開個專案會議來跟他了解一下我還是強調交通沒有最好只有更好我們大家都是在防範未來都是希望把風險降到最低窮盡一切的可能把風險降到最低這是我們共同的使命再拜託主委好嗎好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.745 --> 00:04.079\n好主席謝謝麻煩請林主委林主委\n\n00:08.700 --> 00:35.215\n各位好新北三峽發生重大的車禍意外我想國人都非常的難過但現在最重要是釐清真相跟還原事實我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料記錄器那到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去那我們有沒有什麼樣的一個比較新的進度來還原整個事實的真相\n\n00:36.495 --> 00:57.530\n這個案子我們的EDI就是所謂行程電腦已經開始在解讀那我們跟檢調單位目前在合作那相關的資料都有在互通因為基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則我們目前還是在因為這個案子EDI的解讀一般差不多要三四個禮拜但初步因為它要同步\n\n00:58.010 --> 01:18.572\nEDR要三四個禮拜但對於我們來講現在國人想要了解的是說到底這件事情它是因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了所謂的高齡駕車的一個年限的緊縮從本來75歲往下修70歲那一時間大家以為是說是不是高齡者的一個高齡駕車的問題\n\n01:20.074 --> 01:40.231\n那但是又看到的是他有400公尺內四次的事故尤其是一開始的時候在那個路口有所謂的肇事逃逸所以我們現在國人大家想問的是到底他是故意還是過失是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸那這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有一個比較清楚明白了解嗎\n\n01:43.562 --> 01:58.658\n這個要等這個我剛剛講ED要解讀出來之後還要配合所有的CCTV還有配合這個駕駛的訪談等等這個整個整個一系列的這個調查還有很多要磨合在一起當然\n\n01:59.258 --> 02:26.193\n就是因為有很多所以說國人現在想要了解是說我們到底各單位的進度或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理讓國人早日了解真相三人死亡十二人受傷這難道不應該重視嗎我們已經動員整個全會大概有十五個人力在集中火力在調查這個案子是所以什麼時候因為以往的運安事故發生一個月才會公佈初步的調查報告沒有錯\n\n02:26.653 --> 02:54.783\n那你現在又在推說因為這個可能檢調現在正在偵辦當中但我們其實對檢調也有點為詞啊因為也有網路上面講說同病房的人好像有聽到說這一個加害者他已經醒過來了但到目前為止怎麼都看到還沒有做筆錄那當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人再去做看管這一個加害者只要要一清醒可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛\n\n02:56.156 --> 03:16.758\n但現在重點是各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解還是說真的如同陰謀論來講這個背後可能八股很大可能是某某某綠營調查咖還是怎麼樣還是跟誰關係好所以大家想要大事化小小事化無有可能嗎這個我沒有聽說\n\n03:18.018 --> 03:42.073\n不可能嘛主委這不好笑不是主委我們要的是真相要的是還原事實好來看一下喔今年3月交通部長陳士凱才講說行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國死所以修法要更嚴厲但昨天交通部周年記者會卻改口說行人地獄只是形容詞見仁見智\n\n03:43.766 --> 03:59.742\n我想請教以主管道安交安的主管機關這種說法運安會你能夠接受嗎我們尊重交通部主管機關啦因為我們是事故的調查機關這角度是不太一樣的\n\n04:01.015 --> 04:29.338\n那可以接受說現在到底行人地獄在台灣國外國際觀光客為什麼會有行人地獄這四個字其實本席身為中華民國的一份子我也覺得很難過啊當國外的遊客來到台灣然後就感受到說是行人地獄的時候其實這是一竿子打翻一船人可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名不也就是過去不管是道路不管是駕駛人不管是相關的單位大家的疏忽累積而成\n\n04:30.950 --> 04:46.104\n那現在講說行人地域只是形容詞見仁見智那我們的運安會能夠協助是不是能夠給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促啊主委\n\n04:46.994 --> 05:13.693\n我們這個案子調查出來之後可能會有系統化的風險問題我們會給交通部做建議調查出來之後會有系統化的方式給交通部做建議對好來那我請教第一時間我剛剛開眾名義就講第一時間三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講是說要調修這所謂的高齡駕車的部分當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況\n\n05:16.135 --> 05:32.116\n但是就針對這一個事件初步判斷感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係那主委對於這一連串我們台灣社會最近比較多的媒體報導的高齡駕車事件事故你有什麼樣的建議\n\n05:33.095 --> 05:50.729\n我覺得我們是應該跟交通部一起來共同努力交通部雖然已經在第一時間有給國人一個交代可是這個案子是屬於調查案子調查案子的過程我們應該要更加努力所以我剛剛幫我們投入了15個人力這個幾乎是排擠掉其他的案子了\n\n05:53.544 --> 06:15.274\n這重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查給國人適時真相了解啊我每一次我都講嘛運安會今天是解凍案報告我每次都講說運安會來我們可以很心平氣和討論交通的精進交通的改善這都好事啊因為代表沒有事故發生啊沒有事故發生我們超前部署防範未然啊\n\n06:15.894 --> 06:45.078\n但現在既然事故發生了我們要的是記取這次的教訓避免下次再犯所以才要找出這件事件的真實原因是肇事逃逸是荒唐駕車是人為因素是車輛控管不良還是高齡駕車這些綜合出來之後我們才能做政策來對症下藥啊不是嗎所以後續高齡駕駛的一連串的事故我們運安會會有提出相關建議\n\n06:47.082 --> 07:07.509\n是不是能夠針對這個不管是現在從75歲調降到70歲但是70歲是換照他還是有那我們那時候也提過是說你的高齡駕駛除了我的身心的感知以外可能還有其他的部分需要再進一步的做評估來不是只是單純年齡一分法\n\n07:10.508 --> 07:28.770\n確實沒有錯不是只有單純的問題所以運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業的建議給交通部因為交通部講說三個月內會把配套措施出來那我們運安會這邊是不是也可以提供參考其他國外的案例參考國外的制度我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們\n\n07:30.988 --> 07:47.065\n因為我們分成四個分組在調查嘛操作分組車輛分組生還因素的還有紀錄區分組那這四個分組在15個人力裡面我們所調查出來之後還要去同步還要解讀還要訪談我只是請教那交通部有沒有找雲南會開會過了\n\n07:49.037 --> 08:02.308\n還沒有目前還沒有目前還沒有三個月內他們就要提出來就運安會我覺得很重要的一個機關也是獨立自主的機關調查事故的機關專業機關交通部不早開會莫名其妙\n\n08:03.581 --> 08:18.362\n我們是不是能夠主動的問交通部說有什麼樣可以協助的地方參與這次的一個調整的政策開會溝通提供專業意見事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議裡面有找他們來看過會\n\n08:19.895 --> 08:35.316\n有找他們來專業組織婚婚會他們有來過主委我講的是兩件事嘛專案小組是你們現在在組成是調查新北市三峽事故這個是專案小組但本席現在講的是交通部因應這一個案件之後他就調整了高齡駕車的\n\n08:36.778 --> 08:58.814\n年齡比例從75歲變到70歲然後他說他要做相關的配套但是這個部分跟這一件事情一個是獨立案件我們要真相請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相但另外一個部分是交通部做出一個反應但這個反應其實它並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因可是交通部還是做了\n\n08:59.654 --> 09:27.080\n就是所謂的高齡駕車從75歲變70歲那本席也尊重因為過去也有一些討論那只是說現在一連串的事故裡面也有高齡駕車它可能不是這一個獨立案件的主要原因可是既然要講高齡駕車它可能是另外一個事件的時候我們運動會要提出相關的建議啊你不能講說你這個獨立案件你們又找交通部開會然後這一個高齡駕車的政策你們就放著不管啊\n\n09:28.050 --> 09:47.578\n不會啦不會嘛因為我們我們主動一點好不好我們的調查重點裡面也會考慮到這個駕駛行為調查搞造的體檢制度調查的這個這個管理制度這裡面就會涉及高齡的問題好來那主委我最後一個問題請教這可能也跟您過去轉眼雲過去是民航局副局長\n\n09:48.658 --> 10:11.589\n那最近也有另外一個年齡的問題卻是機師的人口缺口所以交通部要修正所謂的航空人員檢定給照管理規則擴大放寬年齡的範圍從最低要放寬到18歲並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲放寬到不超過65歲\n\n10:15.546 --> 10:42.271\n所以在另外一個航空的部分因為機師的缺口反而他是要放寬年齡的級距從高齡的60歲現行60歲的制度要多放寬5歲變65歲所以一方面路上他是要降低年齡的限度從75歲降到70歲他就要受相關的換照可是航空他卻是要65歲放寬60歲放寬到65歲\n\n10:46.064 --> 11:11.296\n主委以你的專業判斷你有什麼樣的看法這是兩個不同的專業領域是兩個不同的專業領域但是回歸同一件事情都是年齡的放寬一個是緊縮一個是放寬我相信平常局他一定有配套措施啊是我現在想問的是你不能只是相信因為運安會你是防範未來的專業單位嘛那我現在想要請教說運安會您專業的看法是什麼他60歲當初會設60歲的門檻\n\n11:15.970 --> 11:41.297\n那因為現在是機師的人口缺人力缺所以他要放寬5歲那這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷還是說他有沒有你應該建議說他要再多做什麼樣的一個檢測還是就是單純的就放寬就放寬了應該不會他有必要做事絕對有必要做事能不能了解一下他不會去單純是這樣做我們可以去了解\n\n11:42.509 --> 12:06.924\n主委這個是本席就找到的新聞資料他就是直接講交通部你下修檢定年齡到18歲同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲本席還是站在我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估但是就是說在這個放寬的過程當初會這樣子規定並且現在的放寬如果說只是因為人力不足而要補這個人力缺口就放寬5歲的話那5歲的標準是什麼\n\n12:11.055 --> 12:23.485\n那如果說以後人力再不夠再放寬變10歲變15歲這個部分越南會是不是能夠也來做掌握跟交通部來做一個了解\n\n12:25.067 --> 12:43.626\n我們可以開個專案會議來跟他了解一下我還是強調交通沒有最好只有更好我們大家都是在防範未來都是希望把風險降到最低窮盡一切的可能把風險降到最低這是我們共同的使命再拜託主委好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.745,"end":4.079,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請林主委林主委"},{"start":8.7,"end":35.215,"text":"各位好 新北三峽發生重大的車禍意外我想國人都非常的難過但現在最重要是釐清真相跟還原事實我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料記錄器那到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去那我們有沒有什麼樣的一個比較新的進度來還原整個事實的真相"},{"start":36.495,"end":57.53,"text":"這個案子我們的EDI就是所謂行程電腦已經開始在解讀那我們跟檢調單位目前在合作那相關的資料都有在互通因為基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則我們目前還是在因為這個案子EDI的解讀一般差不多要三四個禮拜但初步因為它要同步"},{"start":58.01,"end":78.572,"text":"EDR要三四個禮拜但對於我們來講現在國人想要了解的是說到底這件事情它是因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了所謂的高齡駕車的一個年限的緊縮從本來75歲往下修70歲那一時間大家以為是說是不是高齡者的一個高齡駕車的問題"},{"start":80.074,"end":100.231,"text":"那但是又看到的是他有400公尺內四次的事故尤其是一開始的時候在那個路口有所謂的肇事逃逸所以我們現在國人大家想問的是到底他是故意還是過失是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸那這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有一個比較清楚明白了解嗎"},{"start":103.562,"end":118.658,"text":"這個要等這個我剛剛講ED要解讀出來之後還要配合所有的CCTV還有配合這個駕駛的訪談等等這個整個整個一系列的這個調查還有很多要磨合在一起當然"},{"start":119.258,"end":146.193,"text":"就是因為有很多所以說國人現在想要了解是說我們到底各單位的進度或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理讓國人早日了解真相三人死亡十二人受傷這難道不應該重視嗎我們已經動員整個全會大概有十五個人力在集中火力在調查這個案子是所以什麼時候因為以往的運安事故發生一個月才會公佈初步的調查報告沒有錯"},{"start":146.653,"end":174.783,"text":"那你現在又在推說因為這個可能檢調現在正在偵辦當中但我們其實對檢調也有點為詞啊因為也有網路上面講說同病房的人好像有聽到說這一個加害者他已經醒過來了但到目前為止怎麼都看到還沒有做筆錄那當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人再去做看管這一個加害者只要要一清醒可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛"},{"start":176.156,"end":196.758,"text":"但現在重點是各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解還是說真的如同陰謀論來講這個背後可能八股很大可能是某某某綠營調查咖還是怎麼樣還是跟誰關係好所以大家想要大事化小 小事化無有可能嗎這個我沒有聽說"},{"start":198.018,"end":222.073,"text":"不可能嘛 主委這不好笑不是 主委我們要的是真相 要的是還原事實好 來看一下喔今年3月 交通部長陳士凱才講說行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國死所以修法要更嚴厲但昨天交通部周年記者會卻改口說行人地獄只是形容詞 見仁見智"},{"start":223.766,"end":239.742,"text":"我想請教以主管道安交安的主管機關這種說法運安會你能夠接受嗎我們尊重交通部主管機關啦因為我們是事故的調查機關這角度是不太一樣的"},{"start":241.015,"end":269.338,"text":"那可以接受說現在到底行人地獄在台灣國外國際觀光客為什麼會有行人地獄這四個字其實本席身為中華民國的一份子我也覺得很難過啊當國外的遊客來到台灣然後就感受到說是行人地獄的時候其實這是一竿子打翻一船人可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名不也就是過去不管是道路不管是駕駛人不管是相關的單位大家的疏忽累積而成"},{"start":270.95,"end":286.104,"text":"那現在講說行人地域只是形容詞見仁見智那我們的運安會能夠協助是不是能夠給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促啊 主委"},{"start":286.994,"end":313.693,"text":"我們這個案子調查出來之後可能會有系統化的風險問題我們會給交通部做建議調查出來之後會有系統化的方式給交通部做建議對好來那我請教第一時間我剛剛開眾名義就講第一時間三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講是說要調修這所謂的高齡駕車的部分當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況"},{"start":316.135,"end":332.116,"text":"但是就針對這一個事件初步判斷感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係那主委對於這一連串我們台灣社會最近比較多的媒體報導的高齡駕車事件事故你有什麼樣的建議"},{"start":333.095,"end":350.729,"text":"我覺得我們是應該跟交通部一起來共同努力交通部雖然已經在第一時間有給國人一個交代可是這個案子是屬於調查案子調查案子的過程我們應該要更加努力所以我剛剛幫我們投入了15個人力這個幾乎是排擠掉其他的案子了"},{"start":353.544,"end":375.274,"text":"這重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查給國人適時真相了解啊我每一次我都講嘛 運安會今天是解凍案報告我每次都講說運安會來我們可以很心平氣和討論交通的精進交通的改善這都好事啊 因為代表沒有事故發生啊沒有事故發生我們超前部署防範未然啊"},{"start":375.894,"end":405.078,"text":"但現在既然事故發生了我們要的是記取這次的教訓避免下次再犯所以才要找出這件事件的真實原因是肇事逃逸是荒唐駕車是人為因素是車輛控管不良還是高齡駕車這些綜合出來之後我們才能做政策來對症下藥啊不是嗎所以後續高齡駕駛的一連串的事故我們運安會會有提出相關建議"},{"start":407.082,"end":427.509,"text":"是不是能夠針對這個不管是現在從75歲調降到70歲但是70歲是換照他還是有那我們那時候也提過是說你的高齡駕駛除了我的身心的感知以外可能還有其他的部分需要再進一步的做評估來不是只是單純年齡一分法"},{"start":430.508,"end":448.77,"text":"確實沒有錯 不是只有單純的問題所以運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業的建議給交通部因為交通部講說三個月內會把配套措施出來那我們運安會這邊是不是也可以提供參考其他國外的案例 參考國外的制度我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們"},{"start":450.988,"end":467.065,"text":"因為我們分成四個分組在調查嘛操作分組 車輛分組 生還因素的還有紀錄區分組那這四個分組在15個人力裡面我們所調查出來之後還要去同步 還要解讀 還要訪談我只是請教 那交通部有沒有找 雲南會開會過了"},{"start":469.037,"end":482.308,"text":"還沒有目前還沒有目前還沒有三個月內他們就要提出來就運安會我覺得很重要的一個機關也是獨立自主的機關調查事故的機關專業機關交通部不早開會莫名其妙"},{"start":483.581,"end":498.362,"text":"我們是不是能夠主動的問交通部說有什麼樣可以協助的地方參與這次的一個調整的政策開會溝通提供專業意見事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議裡面有找他們來看過會"},{"start":499.895,"end":515.316,"text":"有找他們來 專業組織婚婚會他們有來過主委我講的是兩件事嘛專案小組是你們現在在組成是調查新北市三峽事故這個是專案小組但本席現在講的是交通部因應這一個案件之後他就調整了高齡駕車的"},{"start":516.778,"end":538.814,"text":"年齡比例 從75歲變到70歲然後他說他要做相關的配套 但是這個部分跟這一件事情一個是獨立案件 我們要真相請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相但另外一個部分是 交通部做出一個反應但這個反應其實它並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因可是交通部還是做了"},{"start":539.654,"end":567.08,"text":"就是所謂的高齡駕車 從75歲變70歲那本席也尊重 因為過去也有一些討論那只是說 現在一連串的事故裡面也有高齡駕車它可能不是這一個獨立案件的主要原因可是既然要講高齡駕車 它可能是另外一個事件的時候我們運動會要提出相關的建議啊你不能講說你這個獨立案件 你們又找交通部開會然後這一個高齡駕車的政策 你們就放著不管啊"},{"start":568.05,"end":587.578,"text":"不會啦不會嘛因為我們我們主動一點好不好我們的調查重點裡面也會考慮到這個駕駛行為調查搞造的體檢制度調查的這個這個管理制度這裡面就會涉及高齡的問題好來那主委我最後一個問題請教這可能也跟您過去轉眼雲過去是民航局副局長"},{"start":588.658,"end":611.589,"text":"那最近也有另外一個年齡的問題卻是機師的人口缺口所以交通部要修正所謂的航空人員檢定給照管理規則擴大放寬年齡的範圍從最低要放寬到18歲並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲放寬到不超過65歲"},{"start":615.546,"end":642.271,"text":"所以在另外一個航空的部分因為機師的缺口反而他是要放寬年齡的級距從高齡的60歲現行60歲的制度要多放寬5歲變65歲所以一方面路上他是要降低年齡的限度從75歲降到70歲他就要受相關的換照可是航空他卻是要65歲放寬60歲放寬到65歲"},{"start":646.064,"end":671.296,"text":"主委 以你的專業判斷 你有什麼樣的看法這是兩個不同的專業領域是 兩個不同的專業領域 但是回歸同一件事情都是年齡的放寬一個是緊縮 一個是放寬我相信平常局他一定有配套措施啊是 我現在想問的是你不能只是相信 因為運安會你是防範未來的專業單位嘛那我現在想要請教說 運安會您專業的看法是什麼他60歲 當初會設60歲的門檻"},{"start":675.97,"end":701.297,"text":"那因為現在是機師的人口缺 人力缺所以他要放寬5歲那這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷還是說他有沒有 你應該建議說他要再多做什麼樣的一個檢測還是就是單純的就放寬就放寬了應該不會 他有必要做事 絕對有必要做事能不能了解一下他不會去單純是這樣做 我們可以去了解"},{"start":702.509,"end":726.924,"text":"主委這個是本席就找到的新聞資料他就是直接講交通部你下修檢定年齡到18歲同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲本席還是站在我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估但是就是說在這個放寬的過程當初會這樣子規定並且現在的放寬如果說只是因為人力不足而要補這個人力缺口就放寬5歲的話那5歲的標準是什麼"},{"start":731.055,"end":743.485,"text":"那如果說以後人力再不夠 再放寬變10歲變15歲這個部分 越南會是不是能夠也來做掌握跟交通部來做一個了解"},{"start":745.067,"end":763.626,"text":"我們可以開個專案會議來跟他了解一下我還是強調交通沒有最好只有更好我們大家都是在防範未來都是希望把風險降到最低窮盡一切的可能把風險降到最低這是我們共同的使命再拜託主委好嗎好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":50,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時8分）主席謝謝，麻煩請林主委。"],["主席：好，林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。主委，新北三峽發生重大車禍意外，我想國人都非常的難過，但現在最重要的是釐清真相跟還原事實。我們有看到運安會也已經說成立專案小組，並且查扣車輛上面的事故資料紀錄器，到目前為止已經快兩個禮拜過去，在還原整個事實真相上，我們有沒有一個比較新的進度？"],["林主任委員信得：這個案子我們的EDI（所謂的行車電腦）已經開始在解讀，我們跟檢調單位目前在合作，相關的資料都有互通。基於檢調單位偵查不公開的原則，我們目前還是在……因為這個案子，EDI的解讀一般差不多要三、四個禮拜，初步是這樣，因為還要同步……"],["洪委員孟楷：EDI要三、四個禮拜，但對於我們來講，現在國人想要了解的是，到底這件事情是……因為第一時間交通部在第二天馬上就調修了高齡駕車年限的緊縮，從本來的75歲往下修到70歲，一時間大家以為是不是高齡者駕車的問題。但是又看到，他在400公尺內有4次的事故，尤其是一開始的時候，在那個路口有肇事逃逸。所以現在國人大家想問的是，到底他是故意還是過失？是人為的因素還是肇事逃逸？這些部分沒有辦法讓國人有比較清楚明白的了解嗎？主委。"],["林主任委員信得：這個要等我剛剛講的EDI解讀出來之後，還要配合所有的CCTV，還有配合駕駛員的訪談等等，整個一系列的調查還有很多要磨合在一起。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，就是因為有很多，所以國人現在想要了解的是，到底各單位的進度，或是各單位是不是能夠積極辦理，讓國人早日了解真相？3人死亡、12人受傷，這難道不應該重視嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們已經動員整個運安會全會大概15個人力，集中火力在調查這個案子了。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以什麼時候？因為以往的運安事故，發生一個月才會公布初步的調查報告。"],["林主任委員信得：沒有錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：你現在又再推說因為這事可能檢調正在偵辦當中，但我們其實對檢調也有點微詞，因為也有網路上面講，同病房的人好像有聽到這個加害者已經醒過來了，但到目前為止怎麼都還沒有看到做筆錄？當然我相信檢調應該都有派專人在看管這個加害者，只要一清醒，可以做筆錄就應該要做筆錄嘛。但現在重點是，各單位有沒有積極的讓國人了解，還是真的如同陰謀論所講，這個背後可能背景很大，可能是某某某綠營「樁腳」還是怎麼樣，還是跟誰關係好，所以大家想要大事化小，小事化無，有可能嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：這個我沒有聽說。"],["洪委員孟楷：不可能嘛！主委，這不好笑。不是，主委，我們要的是真相。"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：要的是還原事實。好，來看一下，今年3月交通部長陳世凱才講，行人走在斑馬線上被車撞死是國恥，所以修法要更嚴厲，但昨天交通部週年記者會卻改口說，行人地獄只是形容詞，見仁見智。我想請教，以主管道安、交安的主管機關這種說法，運安會能夠接受嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們尊重交通部主管機關，因為我們是事故的調查機關，角度是不太一樣的。"],["洪委員孟楷：可以接受說現在行人地獄在臺灣？國外、國際觀光客為什麼會有「行人地獄」這4個字？本席身為中華民國的一份子也覺得很難過，當國外遊客來到臺灣，結果感受到是行人地獄的時候，其實這是一竿子打翻一船人，可是為什麼會有這樣的罵名？不也是過去不論是道路、駕駛人或是相關單位大家的疏忽累積而成？現在說行人地獄只是形容詞、見仁見智，我們的運安會是不是能夠協助，給交通主管機關更強而有力的督促，主委？"],["林主任委員信得：我們這案子調查出來之後，可能會有系統化的風險問題，我們會給交通部建議。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們調查出來之後，會有系統化的方式給交通部建議？"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我請教，剛才我開宗明義就講，三峽案件一發生完之後第一時間，交通部第二天記者會馬上就有講要調修所謂高齡駕車的部分，當然最近也有一連串其他高齡駕駛肇事的狀況，但是針對這個事件初步判斷，感覺跟高齡比較沒有直接的關係。主委對於最近這一連串臺灣社會最近比較多媒體報導的高齡駕車事故，有什麼樣的建議？"],["林主任委員信得：我覺得我們應該跟交通部共同努力，交通部雖然已經在第一時間給國人一個交代，可是這個案子是屬於調查案，調查案的過程我們應該要更加努力，所以我剛才報告我們投入了15個人力，幾乎是排擠掉其他案子了。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是重大的案件當然也應該要趕快調查啊！"],["林主任委員信得：是，沒有錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：給國人了解事實真相。"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：運安會今天是解凍案報告，我每次都講運安會來，我們可以很心平氣和地討論交通的精進、交通的改善，這都是好事，代表沒有事故發生。即便沒有事故發生，我們也要超前部署、防範未然，現在既然事故發生了，我們要的是記取這次教訓，避免下次再犯，所以才要找出這個事件的真實原因究竟是肇事逃逸、是荒唐駕車、是人為因素、是車輛控管不良，還是高齡駕車？這些綜合出來之後，我們才能就政策對症下藥，不是嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：是啊，沒有錯，事實上高齡醫學……"],["洪委員孟楷：後續高齡駕駛的一連串事故，運安會會提出相關建議？是不是能夠針對從75歲調降到70歲？但是70歲是換照，他還是有照。那時我們也提過高齡駕駛除了身心的感知以外，可能還有其他部分需要再進一步評估，不是只是單純年齡一分法。"],["林主任委員信得：確實沒有錯，不是只有單純的年齡問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：運安會後續是不是也可以提供專業建議給交通部？因為交通部說3個月內會有配套措施出來，運安會是不是也可以提供，參考其他國外案例，參考國外的制度？"],["林主任委員信得：我想我們應該會提供一些建議給他們。"],["洪委員孟楷：「應該」？"],["林主任委員信得：因為我們分4個分組在調查，包括操作分組、車輛分組、生還因素，還有紀錄器分組，這4個分組在15個人力裡面，我們調查出來之外，還要同步、解讀、訪談，還要什麼……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我只是請教，那交通部有沒有找運安會開過會了？還沒有？"],["林主任委員信得：目前還沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：目前還沒有？"],["林主任委員信得：嗯。"],["洪委員孟楷：3個月內他們就要提出來。我覺得運安會是很重要的一個機關，也是獨立自主的機關、調查事故的機關、專業的機關，交通部卻不找來開會，莫名其妙。你們是不是能夠主動問交通部有什麼可以協助的地方，並參與這次調整的政策開會溝通，提供專業意見？"],["林主任委員信得：事實上我們這個案子的專案小組組織分工會議有找他們來開過會，有找他們來，專業組織分工會議他們有來過。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，主委我們講的是兩件事嘛，專案小組是你們組成調查新北市三峽事故，這個是專案小組。但本席現在講交通部因應這個案件之後，調整了高齡駕車的年齡，從75歲變到70歲。他說要做相關配套，但是這個部分跟這件事情，一個是獨立案件，我們要真相，請運安會趕快讓國人知道真相；另一個部分是交通部做出反應，但是這個反應其實並不是這個獨立事件的主要原因，可是交通部還是做了，就是高齡駕車從75歲變成70歲，本席也尊重，因為過去也有一些討論，只是現在一連串事故裡面也有高齡駕車，它可能不是這個獨立案件的主要原因，可是既然要講高齡駕車可能是另一個事件的時候，運安會要提出相關建議啊！不能說這個獨立案件你們沒有找交通部開會，這個高齡駕車的政策你們就放著不管啊！"],["林主任委員信得：不會啦，不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：不會嘛，你們主動一點，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：因為我們調查重點裡面也會考慮到駕駛行為、考照的體檢制度、吊照的管理制度，這裡面就會涉及高齡問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我最後一個問題請教，這也可能跟您過去的專業有關，因為您過去是民航局副局長。最近也有另外一個年齡的問題，就是機師的人力缺口，所以交通部要修正航空人員檢定給證管理規則，擴大放寬年齡範圍，最低要放寬到18歲，並且最高同航班年齡反而是從不超過60歲，放寬到不超過65歲，所以在另一個航空部分，因為機師有缺口，反而是要放寬年齡級距，從高齡現行60歲的制度多放寬5歲變65歲。所以一方面，路上是要降低年齡限度，從75歲降到70歲就要受相關的換照，可是航空卻是從60歲放寬到65歲。主委，以您的專業判斷，有什麼樣的看法？"],["林主任委員信得：報告委員，這是兩個不同的專業領域，我相信……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，兩個不同的專業領域，但是回歸同一件事情，都是年齡的放寬，一個是緊縮，一個是放寬。"],["林主任委員信得：我相信民航局一定有配套措施。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，我想問的是你不能只是相信，因為運安會是防範未然的專業單位嘛！我現在想要請教運安會的專業看法是什麼？當初設了60歲的門檻，因為現在缺機師的人力，所以要放寬5歲，這5歲有沒有專業的支撐判斷，還是你建議應該要多做什麼樣的檢測，還是單純放寬就放寬了？"],["林主任委員信得：應該不會，它應該有配套措施，絕對有配套措施。"],["洪委員孟楷：能不能了解一下？"],["林主任委員信得：它不會單純是這樣做，我們可以去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，這個是本席找到的新聞資料，就直接講交通部擬下修檢定年齡到18歲，同班高齡駕駛放寬到65歲。我相信我們做每一件事情一定都要做過評估，但是在這個放寬的過程，當初會這樣子規定，並且現在這樣放寬，如果只是因為人力不足，而要補這個人力缺口，就放寬5歲的話，5歲的標準是什麼？如果說以後人力再不夠，再放寬變10歲、變15歲？這部分運安會是不是也能夠掌握，跟交通部了解？"],["林主任委員信得：我們可以開專案會議來了解一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：我還是強調，交通沒有最好，只有更好，我們大家都是在防範未然，都希望把風險降到最低，窮盡一切可能把風險降到最低，這是我們共同的使命，再拜託主委，好嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢。","現在請李昆澤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":552,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-13","speakers":["林國成","陳素月","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林俊憲","許智傑","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","邱若華","何欣純","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥"],"page_start":515,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案","agenda_id":"1145501_00017"}}}