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\"end\": 675.762, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 675.762, \"end\": 675.982, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 675.982, \"end\": 676.443, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 676.443, \"end\": 676.563, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 676.563, \"end\": 676.583, \"score\": 0.394}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,475 --> 00:00:05,846\n謝謝召委請一下林主委好應安委林主委\n\n2\n00:00:10,384 --> 00:00:35,282\n林主委您好有關於5月19號三峽的重大車禍造成嚴重的傷亡國人都非常的錯愕與傷痛那當然在第一時間我有跟運安會來聯絡認為這件事情是符合重大公路事故的調查要件應該列入調查當然我們在\n\n3\n00:00:36,448 --> 00:00:57,525\n公路的這樣一個事故的調查條件運安會有基本的規範第一個就是它是交通運輸工具貨物的運輸工具以及大型的這種自用車造成三人以上的這樣的一個死亡或是十人的這樣的一個受傷\n\n4\n00:00:58,426 --> 00:01:23,987\n或是15人以上受傷就列入這個調查的條件或者是它是交通運輸工具貨物運輸工具有在這種危險的物質或放射物質翻覆外洩造成死亡的話也是列入調查另外一個就是我們所說的重大的公路事件造成社會注意的這樣的一個重大案件也必須來做調查\n\n5\n00:01:26,289 --> 00:01:36,830\n那現在調查的進度如何來簡單說明一下什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告以及最終的調查完成報告\n\n6\n00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:58,619\n我們一個月內會發布初步的報告然後五個月內會發布事實資料的報告就是一個月是初步的報告那大概是在今年的十月應該會發布資料的調查報告然後明年的五月會完成相關的這樣的一個調查的報告\n\n7\n00:02:01,781 --> 00:02:20,396\n這個應該盡快的讓國人來知道相關的這樣的一個交通意外的事故那另外我們來看交通意外事故的預防它的重要性是越來越重要那我們看到我們運安會的這樣的一個組織法的第二條\n\n8\n00:02:21,337 --> 00:02:37,107\n就是運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建立他的追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究是我們運安會組織的一個重要的基礎那我們來看看\n\n9\n00:02:38,605 --> 00:02:58,064\n異常事故異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的因為我們可以提前來發現這些事故它的發生的一個隱憂然後預防事故發生的一個重要基礎\n\n10\n00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:14,465\n這就是一個基本的一個觀念那但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件例如滑行的引擎蓋脫落的事件或者是台鐵列車停靠\n\n11\n00:03:15,646 --> 00:03:33,145\n不靠這個不當的事件還有高鐵停站未開門的事件或是公路客運大規模超時過老的這些問題這些不管是他設備的問題操作的問題或是人為的因素等等啊那\n\n12\n00:03:34,994 --> 00:04:04,156\n我們的運安會最主要的是事後調查但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防世界各國的主要的這種運安會類似的組織都已經朝這個趨勢那當然我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料\n\n13\n00:04:05,626 --> 00:04:21,076\n取得相關的這些相關的這些狀況的收集當然我們有這種參照世界各國\n\n14\n00:04:22,574 --> 00:04:48,048\n的主要的安全調查機構它的制度跟相關的研究我們看到資料掌握還有風險預警是現在運輸安全一個治理重要的核心我們國家並不是沒有預防的這樣的一個機制也有啦就是之前我長期在推動的志願報告系統從非安會的時期到現在這樣的一個\n\n15\n00:04:51,671 --> 00:05:19,505\n機制其實還是明顯的不足因為我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的這種資源報告系統但是它個案的處理哪裡系統性的預防沒有辦法做到系統性的預防所以我看到我們應該是應該跟世界各國一樣我舉加拿大為例加拿大他們各交通系統發生異常的事件他們立刻就要\n\n16\n00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,164\n依法就要通報加拿大的運安會\n\n17\n00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:51,602\n而且建立資料庫來進行統計的一個分析主委這就是說我們都是消極的在等待這些志願報告系統不管是駕駛者或者是乘客所提供的志願報告系統他們消極的提供我們才去做相關的一個處理但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話\n\n18\n00:05:52,803 --> 00:06:14,736\n發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故這些事件沒有發生成事故但是他還是會主動依法要通報他們的運安會那而且來建立資料庫來進行分析那我們現在沒有直接的這樣的一個機制來主委說明一下\n\n19\n00:06:15,678 --> 00:06:32,946\n我們有這個機制啦我們現在的志願報告系統就是這個機制但是我們沒有依法他們要有發生這種異常事故的異常事件的時候就要依法要通報銀行會我們是要依照志願報告系統\n\n20\n00:06:35,041 --> 00:06:46,271\n除了資源包括系統以外各機關他們有發生像Niamis也就是說那個這個Niamis就是蓄積事件什麼他們都會通報我們這邊都有統計\n\n21\n00:06:48,840 --> 00:07:03,812\n目前為止都幾乎百分之一百都通報交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件不是事故喔異常事件的時候他們就會依法直接通報你們是嗎你要確定喔\n\n22\n00:07:07,114 --> 00:07:20,135\n相關台鐵每年發生的異常事件是非常的多你們沒見他們都有依法通報你們嗎因為當他通報有一些匿名是比較冷你們還要主動向他們調閱勒\n\n23\n00:07:22,179 --> 00:07:37,775\n沒有當他累積到某一個是不是的時候我們跟他講說你這是這個事件好像是頻率很高的時候就如同這個委一直關心的我們會啟動所以目前都是都是兩邊是互通沒有沒有說會主委是\n\n24\n00:07:39,136 --> 00:07:58,072\n你的了解跟認知跟我有差距運安會從非安會從你在當民進黨局副局長的時候我就在交通委員會長期就在推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況當然我非常清楚我們在過去是自願報告系統自願呢\n\n25\n00:07:59,915 --> 00:08:26,657\n不是依法就要通報我們相關運安會建立資料庫的現在是這個機制的它的主動性跟消極性的差別呢你去了解啦是是是你去了解啦是是你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的呢是這個機制希望你能夠去了解一下我們要把它加進去那我們從事故預防啊它的\n\n26\n00:08:28,161 --> 00:08:46,771\n預防的這種分析它的完整性資料的完整性資料完整性的分析是很重要所以我說不只是志願報告系統而是要主動的來提供依法就要提供給我們的運安會而且要建立資料庫來做統計跟分析那\n\n27\n00:08:47,731 --> 00:09:09,549\n事前預防都是國際趨勢都可以看出我們必須要做這樣一個積極的作為那預安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊對促進交通安全的重要性是非常的重要所以我建議就是要擴大資料的調閱權限\n\n28\n00:09:11,837 --> 00:09:30,347\n我們要運安會有主動的這樣的一個權限我們來檢討一下相關的法令的機制因為現在只是自願報告系統而且啊只是你們要釣魚的時候跟他們要他們會給而不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊而且要建立資料庫的一個分析\n\n29\n00:09:31,175 --> 00:09:51,751\n另外也要跟交通部來協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限公路局的資料台鐵公司的資料高鐵公司的資料你們隨時都應該可以取得相關的這樣的一個資訊而且要進行統計分析來做預防的一個工作\n\n30\n00:09:52,532 --> 00:10:20,933\n那長期來說我認為應該要建立資料自動介接同步的一個整合的資料庫各交通主管機關來協調所需的資料而且要建立交換的格式這個請主委跟我們相關的人員朝這個方面來努力最後就是強化分級的管理來推動安全的一個改善\n\n31\n00:10:21,893 --> 00:10:43,961\n異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議我們要以風險的危害性以及發生的機率來進行分級列出改善的優先次序及急迫性通知主管機關並且進行公告來請主委最後做一個說明目前我們醫院會的運作狀況\n\n32\n00:10:46,007 --> 00:11:08,798\n我們目前的運作通報確實是有分級啦那如同剛剛委員講的我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好謝謝主委我們這個工作都是很重要的關係到事件不只是事後調查我們在事前的預防相關資料分析來建立這樣的一個交通安全改善的一個重要基礎\n\n33\n00:11:09,498 --> 00:11:16,583\n這也是過去我提出啊年度交通安全改善建議的這樣的一個建議書啊一個重要的基礎啦以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1475\t5846\t謝謝召委 請一下林主委好 應安委林主委\n10384\t35282\t林主委您好有關於5月19號三峽的重大車禍造成嚴重的傷亡國人都非常的錯愕與傷痛那當然在第一時間我有跟運安會來聯絡認為這件事情是符合重大公路事故的調查要件應該列入調查當然我們在\n36448\t57525\t公路的這樣一個事故的調查條件 運安會有基本的規範第一個就是它是交通運輸工具 貨物的運輸工具以及大型的這種自用車造成三人以上的這樣的一個死亡 或是十人的這樣的一個受傷\n58426\t83987\t或是15人以上受傷就列入這個調查的條件或者是它是交通運輸工具 貨物運輸工具有在這種危險的物質或放射物質翻覆外洩造成死亡的話也是列入調查另外一個就是我們所說的重大的公路事件造成社會注意的這樣的一個重大案件也必須來做調查\n86289\t96830\t那現在調查的進度如何來簡單說明一下什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告以及最終的調查完成報告\n98010\t118619\t我們一個月內會發布初步的報告然後五個月內會發布事實資料的報告就是一個月是初步的報告那大概是在今年的十月應該會發布資料的調查報告然後明年的五月會完成相關的這樣的一個調查的報告\n121781\t140396\t這個應該盡快的讓國人來知道相關的這樣的一個交通意外的事故那另外我們來看交通意外事故的預防它的重要性是越來越重要那我們看到我們運安會的這樣的一個組織法的第二條\n141337\t157107\t就是運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建立他的追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究是我們運安會組織的一個重要的基礎那我們來看看\n158605\t178064\t異常事故 異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的因為我們可以提前來發現這些事故它的發生的一個隱憂然後預防事故發生的一個重要基礎\n179406\t194465\t這就是一個基本的一個觀念那但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件例如滑行的引擎蓋脫落的事件或者是台鐵列車停靠\n195646\t213145\t不靠這個不當的事件還有高鐵停站未開門的事件或是公路客運大規模超時過老的這些問題這些不管是他設備的問題操作的問題或是人為的因素等等啊那\n214994\t244156\t我們的運安會最主要的是事後調查但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防世界各國的主要的這種運安會類似的組織都已經朝這個趨勢那當然我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料\n245626\t261076\t取得相關的這些相關的這些狀況的收集當然我們有這種參照世界各國\n262574\t288048\t的主要的安全調查機構它的制度跟相關的研究我們看到資料掌握還有風險預警是現在運輸安全一個治理重要的核心我們國家並不是沒有預防的這樣的一個機制也有啦就是之前我長期在推動的志願報告系統從非安會的時期到現在這樣的一個\n291671\t319505\t機制其實還是明顯的不足因為我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的這種資源報告系統但是它個案的處理哪裡系統性的預防沒有辦法做到系統性的預防所以我看到我們應該是應該跟世界各國一樣我舉加拿大為例加拿大他們各交通系統發生異常的事件他們立刻就要\n320680\t323164\t依法就要通報加拿大的運安會\n324680\t351602\t而且建立資料庫來進行統計的一個分析主委這就是說我們都是消極的在等待這些志願報告系統不管是駕駛者或者是乘客所提供的志願報告系統他們消極的提供我們才去做相關的一個處理但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話\n352803\t374736\t發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故這些事件沒有發生成事故但是他還是會主動依法要通報他們的運安會那而且來建立資料庫來進行分析那我們現在沒有直接的這樣的一個機制來主委說明一下\n375678\t392946\t我們有這個機制啦我們現在的志願報告系統就是這個機制但是我們沒有依法他們要有發生這種異常事故的異常事件的時候就要依法要通報銀行會我們是要依照志願報告系統\n395041\t406271\t除了資源包括系統以外各機關他們有發生像Niamis也就是說那個這個Niamis就是蓄積事件什麼他們都會通報我們這邊都有統計\n408840\t423812\t目前為止都幾乎百分之一百都通報交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件不是事故喔異常事件的時候他們就會依法直接通報你們是嗎你要確定喔\n427114\t440135\t相關台鐵每年發生的異常事件是非常的多你們沒見他們都有依法通報你們嗎因為當他通報有一些匿名是比較冷你們還要主動向他們調閱勒\n442179\t457775\t沒有當他累積到某一個是不是的時候我們跟他講說你這是這個事件好像是頻率很高的時候就如同這個委一直關心的我們會啟動所以目前都是都是兩邊是互通沒有沒有說會主委是\n459136\t478072\t你的了解跟認知跟我有差距運安會從非安會從你在當民進黨局副局長的時候我就在交通委員會長期就在推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況當然我非常清楚我們在過去是自願報告系統自願呢\n479915\t506657\t不是依法就要通報我們相關運安會建立資料庫的現在是這個機制的它的主動性跟消極性的差別呢你去了解啦是是是你去了解啦是是你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的呢是這個機制希望你能夠去了解一下我們要把它加進去那我們從事故預防啊它的\n508161\t526771\t預防的這種分析它的完整性資料的完整性資料完整性的分析是很重要所以我說不只是志願報告系統而是要主動的來提供依法就要提供給我們的運安會而且要建立資料庫來做統計跟分析那\n527731\t549549\t事前預防都是國際趨勢都可以看出我們必須要做這樣一個積極的作為那預安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊對促進交通安全的重要性是非常的重要所以我建議就是要擴大資料的調閱權限\n551837\t570347\t我們要 運安會有主動的這樣的一個權限我們來檢討一下相關的法令的機制因為現在只是自願報告系統而且啊 只是你們要釣魚的時候跟他們要 他們會給而不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊而且要建立資料庫的一個分析\n571175\t591751\t另外也要跟交通部來協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限公路局的資料 台鐵公司的資料 高鐵公司的資料你們隨時都應該可以取得相關的這樣的一個資訊而且要進行統計分析來做預防的一個工作\n592532\t620933\t那長期來說 我認為應該要建立資料自動 介接同步的一個整合的資料庫各交通主管機關來協調所需的資料 而且要建立交換的格式這個請主委跟我們相關的人員 朝這個方面來努力最後就是強化分級的管理 來推動安全的一個改善\n621893\t643961\t異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議我們要以風險的危害性以及發生的機率來進行分級列出改善的優先次序及急迫性通知主管機關並且進行公告來請主委最後做一個說明目前我們醫院會的運作狀況\n646007\t668798\t我們目前的運作通報確實是有分級啦那如同剛剛委員講的我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好謝謝主委我們這個工作都是很重要的關係到事件不只是事後調查我們在事前的預防相關資料分析來建立這樣的一個交通安全改善的一個重要基礎\n669498\t676583\t這也是過去我提出啊 年度交通安全改善建議的這樣的一個建議書啊一個重要的基礎啦 以上\n","txt":"謝謝召委 請一下林主委好 應安委林主委\n林主委您好有關於5月19號三峽的重大車禍造成嚴重的傷亡國人都非常的錯愕與傷痛那當然在第一時間我有跟運安會來聯絡認為這件事情是符合重大公路事故的調查要件應該列入調查當然我們在\n公路的這樣一個事故的調查條件 運安會有基本的規範第一個就是它是交通運輸工具 貨物的運輸工具以及大型的這種自用車造成三人以上的這樣的一個死亡 或是十人的這樣的一個受傷\n或是15人以上受傷就列入這個調查的條件或者是它是交通運輸工具 貨物運輸工具有在這種危險的物質或放射物質翻覆外洩造成死亡的話也是列入調查另外一個就是我們所說的重大的公路事件造成社會注意的這樣的一個重大案件也必須來做調查\n那現在調查的進度如何來簡單說明一下什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告以及最終的調查完成報告\n我們一個月內會發布初步的報告然後五個月內會發布事實資料的報告就是一個月是初步的報告那大概是在今年的十月應該會發布資料的調查報告然後明年的五月會完成相關的這樣的一個調查的報告\n這個應該盡快的讓國人來知道相關的這樣的一個交通意外的事故那另外我們來看交通意外事故的預防它的重要性是越來越重要那我們看到我們運安會的這樣的一個組織法的第二條\n就是運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建立他的追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究是我們運安會組織的一個重要的基礎那我們來看看\n異常事故 異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的因為我們可以提前來發現這些事故它的發生的一個隱憂然後預防事故發生的一個重要基礎\n這就是一個基本的一個觀念那但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件例如滑行的引擎蓋脫落的事件或者是台鐵列車停靠\n不靠這個不當的事件還有高鐵停站未開門的事件或是公路客運大規模超時過老的這些問題這些不管是他設備的問題操作的問題或是人為的因素等等啊那\n我們的運安會最主要的是事後調查但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防世界各國的主要的這種運安會類似的組織都已經朝這個趨勢那當然我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料\n取得相關的這些相關的這些狀況的收集當然我們有這種參照世界各國\n的主要的安全調查機構它的制度跟相關的研究我們看到資料掌握還有風險預警是現在運輸安全一個治理重要的核心我們國家並不是沒有預防的這樣的一個機制也有啦就是之前我長期在推動的志願報告系統從非安會的時期到現在這樣的一個\n機制其實還是明顯的不足因為我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的這種資源報告系統但是它個案的處理哪裡系統性的預防沒有辦法做到系統性的預防所以我看到我們應該是應該跟世界各國一樣我舉加拿大為例加拿大他們各交通系統發生異常的事件他們立刻就要\n依法就要通報加拿大的運安會\n而且建立資料庫來進行統計的一個分析主委這就是說我們都是消極的在等待這些志願報告系統不管是駕駛者或者是乘客所提供的志願報告系統他們消極的提供我們才去做相關的一個處理但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話\n發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故這些事件沒有發生成事故但是他還是會主動依法要通報他們的運安會那而且來建立資料庫來進行分析那我們現在沒有直接的這樣的一個機制來主委說明一下\n我們有這個機制啦我們現在的志願報告系統就是這個機制但是我們沒有依法他們要有發生這種異常事故的異常事件的時候就要依法要通報銀行會我們是要依照志願報告系統\n除了資源包括系統以外各機關他們有發生像Niamis也就是說那個這個Niamis就是蓄積事件什麼他們都會通報我們這邊都有統計\n目前為止都幾乎百分之一百都通報交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件不是事故喔異常事件的時候他們就會依法直接通報你們是嗎你要確定喔\n相關台鐵每年發生的異常事件是非常的多你們沒見他們都有依法通報你們嗎因為當他通報有一些匿名是比較冷你們還要主動向他們調閱勒\n沒有當他累積到某一個是不是的時候我們跟他講說你這是這個事件好像是頻率很高的時候就如同這個委一直關心的我們會啟動所以目前都是都是兩邊是互通沒有沒有說會主委是\n你的了解跟認知跟我有差距運安會從非安會從你在當民進黨局副局長的時候我就在交通委員會長期就在推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況當然我非常清楚我們在過去是自願報告系統自願呢\n不是依法就要通報我們相關運安會建立資料庫的現在是這個機制的它的主動性跟消極性的差別呢你去了解啦是是是你去了解啦是是你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的呢是這個機制希望你能夠去了解一下我們要把它加進去那我們從事故預防啊它的\n預防的這種分析它的完整性資料的完整性資料完整性的分析是很重要所以我說不只是志願報告系統而是要主動的來提供依法就要提供給我們的運安會而且要建立資料庫來做統計跟分析那\n事前預防都是國際趨勢都可以看出我們必須要做這樣一個積極的作為那預安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊對促進交通安全的重要性是非常的重要所以我建議就是要擴大資料的調閱權限\n我們要 運安會有主動的這樣的一個權限我們來檢討一下相關的法令的機制因為現在只是自願報告系統而且啊 只是你們要釣魚的時候跟他們要 他們會給而不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊而且要建立資料庫的一個分析\n另外也要跟交通部來協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限公路局的資料 台鐵公司的資料 高鐵公司的資料你們隨時都應該可以取得相關的這樣的一個資訊而且要進行統計分析來做預防的一個工作\n那長期來說 我認為應該要建立資料自動 介接同步的一個整合的資料庫各交通主管機關來協調所需的資料 而且要建立交換的格式這個請主委跟我們相關的人員 朝這個方面來努力最後就是強化分級的管理 來推動安全的一個改善\n異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議我們要以風險的危害性以及發生的機率來進行分級列出改善的優先次序及急迫性通知主管機關並且進行公告來請主委最後做一個說明目前我們醫院會的運作狀況\n我們目前的運作通報確實是有分級啦那如同剛剛委員講的我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好謝謝主委我們這個工作都是很重要的關係到事件不只是事後調查我們在事前的預防相關資料分析來建立這樣的一個交通安全改善的一個重要基礎\n這也是過去我提出啊 年度交通安全改善建議的這樣的一個建議書啊一個重要的基礎啦 以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.475 --> 00:05.846\n謝謝召委請一下林主委好應安委林主委\n\n00:10.384 --> 00:35.282\n林主委您好有關於5月19號三峽的重大車禍造成嚴重的傷亡國人都非常的錯愕與傷痛那當然在第一時間我有跟運安會來聯絡認為這件事情是符合重大公路事故的調查要件應該列入調查當然我們在\n\n00:36.448 --> 00:57.525\n公路的這樣一個事故的調查條件運安會有基本的規範第一個就是它是交通運輸工具貨物的運輸工具以及大型的這種自用車造成三人以上的這樣的一個死亡或是十人的這樣的一個受傷\n\n00:58.426 --> 01:23.987\n或是15人以上受傷就列入這個調查的條件或者是它是交通運輸工具貨物運輸工具有在這種危險的物質或放射物質翻覆外洩造成死亡的話也是列入調查另外一個就是我們所說的重大的公路事件造成社會注意的這樣的一個重大案件也必須來做調查\n\n01:26.289 --> 01:36.830\n那現在調查的進度如何來簡單說明一下什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告以及最終的調查完成報告\n\n01:38.010 --> 01:58.619\n我們一個月內會發布初步的報告然後五個月內會發布事實資料的報告就是一個月是初步的報告那大概是在今年的十月應該會發布資料的調查報告然後明年的五月會完成相關的這樣的一個調查的報告\n\n02:01.781 --> 02:20.396\n這個應該盡快的讓國人來知道相關的這樣的一個交通意外的事故那另外我們來看交通意外事故的預防它的重要性是越來越重要那我們看到我們運安會的這樣的一個組織法的第二條\n\n02:21.337 --> 02:37.107\n就是運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建立他的追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究是我們運安會組織的一個重要的基礎那我們來看看\n\n02:38.605 --> 02:58.064\n異常事故異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的因為我們可以提前來發現這些事故它的發生的一個隱憂然後預防事故發生的一個重要基礎\n\n02:59.406 --> 03:14.465\n這就是一個基本的一個觀念那但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件例如滑行的引擎蓋脫落的事件或者是台鐵列車停靠\n\n03:15.646 --> 03:33.145\n不靠這個不當的事件還有高鐵停站未開門的事件或是公路客運大規模超時過老的這些問題這些不管是他設備的問題操作的問題或是人為的因素等等啊那\n\n03:34.994 --> 04:04.156\n我們的運安會最主要的是事後調查但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防世界各國的主要的這種運安會類似的組織都已經朝這個趨勢那當然我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料\n\n04:05.626 --> 04:21.076\n取得相關的這些相關的這些狀況的收集當然我們有這種參照世界各國\n\n04:22.574 --> 04:48.048\n的主要的安全調查機構它的制度跟相關的研究我們看到資料掌握還有風險預警是現在運輸安全一個治理重要的核心我們國家並不是沒有預防的這樣的一個機制也有啦就是之前我長期在推動的志願報告系統從非安會的時期到現在這樣的一個\n\n04:51.671 --> 05:19.505\n機制其實還是明顯的不足因為我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的這種資源報告系統但是它個案的處理哪裡系統性的預防沒有辦法做到系統性的預防所以我看到我們應該是應該跟世界各國一樣我舉加拿大為例加拿大他們各交通系統發生異常的事件他們立刻就要\n\n05:20.680 --> 05:23.164\n依法就要通報加拿大的運安會\n\n05:24.680 --> 05:51.602\n而且建立資料庫來進行統計的一個分析主委這就是說我們都是消極的在等待這些志願報告系統不管是駕駛者或者是乘客所提供的志願報告系統他們消極的提供我們才去做相關的一個處理但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話\n\n05:52.803 --> 06:14.736\n發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故這些事件沒有發生成事故但是他還是會主動依法要通報他們的運安會那而且來建立資料庫來進行分析那我們現在沒有直接的這樣的一個機制來主委說明一下\n\n06:15.678 --> 06:32.946\n我們有這個機制啦我們現在的志願報告系統就是這個機制但是我們沒有依法他們要有發生這種異常事故的異常事件的時候就要依法要通報銀行會我們是要依照志願報告系統\n\n06:35.041 --> 06:46.271\n除了資源包括系統以外各機關他們有發生像Niamis也就是說那個這個Niamis就是蓄積事件什麼他們都會通報我們這邊都有統計\n\n06:48.840 --> 07:03.812\n目前為止都幾乎百分之一百都通報交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件不是事故喔異常事件的時候他們就會依法直接通報你們是嗎你要確定喔\n\n07:07.114 --> 07:20.135\n相關台鐵每年發生的異常事件是非常的多你們沒見他們都有依法通報你們嗎因為當他通報有一些匿名是比較冷你們還要主動向他們調閱勒\n\n07:22.179 --> 07:37.775\n沒有當他累積到某一個是不是的時候我們跟他講說你這是這個事件好像是頻率很高的時候就如同這個委一直關心的我們會啟動所以目前都是都是兩邊是互通沒有沒有說會主委是\n\n07:39.136 --> 07:58.072\n你的了解跟認知跟我有差距運安會從非安會從你在當民進黨局副局長的時候我就在交通委員會長期就在推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況當然我非常清楚我們在過去是自願報告系統自願呢\n\n07:59.915 --> 08:26.657\n不是依法就要通報我們相關運安會建立資料庫的現在是這個機制的它的主動性跟消極性的差別呢你去了解啦是是是你去了解啦是是你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的呢是這個機制希望你能夠去了解一下我們要把它加進去那我們從事故預防啊它的\n\n08:28.161 --> 08:46.771\n預防的這種分析它的完整性資料的完整性資料完整性的分析是很重要所以我說不只是志願報告系統而是要主動的來提供依法就要提供給我們的運安會而且要建立資料庫來做統計跟分析那\n\n08:47.731 --> 09:09.549\n事前預防都是國際趨勢都可以看出我們必須要做這樣一個積極的作為那預安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊對促進交通安全的重要性是非常的重要所以我建議就是要擴大資料的調閱權限\n\n09:11.837 --> 09:30.347\n我們要運安會有主動的這樣的一個權限我們來檢討一下相關的法令的機制因為現在只是自願報告系統而且啊只是你們要釣魚的時候跟他們要他們會給而不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊而且要建立資料庫的一個分析\n\n09:31.175 --> 09:51.751\n另外也要跟交通部來協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限公路局的資料台鐵公司的資料高鐵公司的資料你們隨時都應該可以取得相關的這樣的一個資訊而且要進行統計分析來做預防的一個工作\n\n09:52.532 --> 10:20.933\n那長期來說我認為應該要建立資料自動介接同步的一個整合的資料庫各交通主管機關來協調所需的資料而且要建立交換的格式這個請主委跟我們相關的人員朝這個方面來努力最後就是強化分級的管理來推動安全的一個改善\n\n10:21.893 --> 10:43.961\n異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議我們要以風險的危害性以及發生的機率來進行分級列出改善的優先次序及急迫性通知主管機關並且進行公告來請主委最後做一個說明目前我們醫院會的運作狀況\n\n10:46.007 --> 11:08.798\n我們目前的運作通報確實是有分級啦那如同剛剛委員講的我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好謝謝主委我們這個工作都是很重要的關係到事件不只是事後調查我們在事前的預防相關資料分析來建立這樣的一個交通安全改善的一個重要基礎\n\n11:09.498 --> 11:16.583\n這也是過去我提出啊年度交通安全改善建議的這樣的一個建議書啊一個重要的基礎啦以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.475,"end":5.846,"text":"謝謝召委 請一下林主委好 應安委林主委"},{"start":10.384,"end":35.282,"text":"林主委您好有關於5月19號三峽的重大車禍造成嚴重的傷亡國人都非常的錯愕與傷痛那當然在第一時間我有跟運安會來聯絡認為這件事情是符合重大公路事故的調查要件應該列入調查當然我們在"},{"start":36.448,"end":57.525,"text":"公路的這樣一個事故的調查條件 運安會有基本的規範第一個就是它是交通運輸工具 貨物的運輸工具以及大型的這種自用車造成三人以上的這樣的一個死亡 或是十人的這樣的一個受傷"},{"start":58.426,"end":83.987,"text":"或是15人以上受傷就列入這個調查的條件或者是它是交通運輸工具 貨物運輸工具有在這種危險的物質或放射物質翻覆外洩造成死亡的話也是列入調查另外一個就是我們所說的重大的公路事件造成社會注意的這樣的一個重大案件也必須來做調查"},{"start":86.289,"end":96.83,"text":"那現在調查的進度如何來簡單說明一下什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告以及最終的調查完成報告"},{"start":98.01,"end":118.619,"text":"我們一個月內會發布初步的報告然後五個月內會發布事實資料的報告就是一個月是初步的報告那大概是在今年的十月應該會發布資料的調查報告然後明年的五月會完成相關的這樣的一個調查的報告"},{"start":121.781,"end":140.396,"text":"這個應該盡快的讓國人來知道相關的這樣的一個交通意外的事故那另外我們來看交通意外事故的預防它的重要性是越來越重要那我們看到我們運安會的這樣的一個組織法的第二條"},{"start":141.337,"end":157.107,"text":"就是運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建立他的追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究是我們運安會組織的一個重要的基礎那我們來看看"},{"start":158.605,"end":178.064,"text":"異常事故 異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的因為我們可以提前來發現這些事故它的發生的一個隱憂然後預防事故發生的一個重要基礎"},{"start":179.406,"end":194.465,"text":"這就是一個基本的一個觀念那但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件例如滑行的引擎蓋脫落的事件或者是台鐵列車停靠"},{"start":195.646,"end":213.145,"text":"不靠這個不當的事件還有高鐵停站未開門的事件或是公路客運大規模超時過老的這些問題這些不管是他設備的問題操作的問題或是人為的因素等等啊那"},{"start":214.994,"end":244.156,"text":"我們的運安會最主要的是事後調查但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防世界各國的主要的這種運安會類似的組織都已經朝這個趨勢那當然我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料"},{"start":245.626,"end":261.076,"text":"取得相關的這些相關的這些狀況的收集當然我們有這種參照世界各國"},{"start":262.574,"end":288.048,"text":"的主要的安全調查機構它的制度跟相關的研究我們看到資料掌握還有風險預警是現在運輸安全一個治理重要的核心我們國家並不是沒有預防的這樣的一個機制也有啦就是之前我長期在推動的志願報告系統從非安會的時期到現在這樣的一個"},{"start":291.671,"end":319.505,"text":"機制其實還是明顯的不足因為我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的這種資源報告系統但是它個案的處理哪裡系統性的預防沒有辦法做到系統性的預防所以我看到我們應該是應該跟世界各國一樣我舉加拿大為例加拿大他們各交通系統發生異常的事件他們立刻就要"},{"start":320.68,"end":323.164,"text":"依法就要通報加拿大的運安會"},{"start":324.68,"end":351.602,"text":"而且建立資料庫來進行統計的一個分析主委這就是說我們都是消極的在等待這些志願報告系統不管是駕駛者或者是乘客所提供的志願報告系統他們消極的提供我們才去做相關的一個處理但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話"},{"start":352.803,"end":374.736,"text":"發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故這些事件沒有發生成事故但是他還是會主動依法要通報他們的運安會那而且來建立資料庫來進行分析那我們現在沒有直接的這樣的一個機制來主委說明一下"},{"start":375.678,"end":392.946,"text":"我們有這個機制啦我們現在的志願報告系統就是這個機制但是我們沒有依法他們要有發生這種異常事故的異常事件的時候就要依法要通報銀行會我們是要依照志願報告系統"},{"start":395.041,"end":406.271,"text":"除了資源包括系統以外各機關他們有發生像Niamis也就是說那個這個Niamis就是蓄積事件什麼他們都會通報我們這邊都有統計"},{"start":408.84,"end":423.812,"text":"目前為止都幾乎百分之一百都通報交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件不是事故喔異常事件的時候他們就會依法直接通報你們是嗎你要確定喔"},{"start":427.114,"end":440.135,"text":"相關台鐵每年發生的異常事件是非常的多你們沒見他們都有依法通報你們嗎因為當他通報有一些匿名是比較冷你們還要主動向他們調閱勒"},{"start":442.179,"end":457.775,"text":"沒有當他累積到某一個是不是的時候我們跟他講說你這是這個事件好像是頻率很高的時候就如同這個委一直關心的我們會啟動所以目前都是都是兩邊是互通沒有沒有說會主委是"},{"start":459.136,"end":478.072,"text":"你的了解跟認知跟我有差距運安會從非安會從你在當民進黨局副局長的時候我就在交通委員會長期就在推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況當然我非常清楚我們在過去是自願報告系統自願呢"},{"start":479.915,"end":506.657,"text":"不是依法就要通報我們相關運安會建立資料庫的現在是這個機制的它的主動性跟消極性的差別呢你去了解啦是是是你去了解啦是是你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的呢是這個機制希望你能夠去了解一下我們要把它加進去那我們從事故預防啊它的"},{"start":508.161,"end":526.771,"text":"預防的這種分析它的完整性資料的完整性資料完整性的分析是很重要所以我說不只是志願報告系統而是要主動的來提供依法就要提供給我們的運安會而且要建立資料庫來做統計跟分析那"},{"start":527.731,"end":549.549,"text":"事前預防都是國際趨勢都可以看出我們必須要做這樣一個積極的作為那預安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊對促進交通安全的重要性是非常的重要所以我建議就是要擴大資料的調閱權限"},{"start":551.837,"end":570.347,"text":"我們要 運安會有主動的這樣的一個權限我們來檢討一下相關的法令的機制因為現在只是自願報告系統而且啊 只是你們要釣魚的時候跟他們要 他們會給而不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊而且要建立資料庫的一個分析"},{"start":571.175,"end":591.751,"text":"另外也要跟交通部來協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限公路局的資料 台鐵公司的資料 高鐵公司的資料你們隨時都應該可以取得相關的這樣的一個資訊而且要進行統計分析來做預防的一個工作"},{"start":592.532,"end":620.933,"text":"那長期來說 我認為應該要建立資料自動 介接同步的一個整合的資料庫各交通主管機關來協調所需的資料 而且要建立交換的格式這個請主委跟我們相關的人員 朝這個方面來努力最後就是強化分級的管理 來推動安全的一個改善"},{"start":621.893,"end":643.961,"text":"異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議我們要以風險的危害性以及發生的機率來進行分級列出改善的優先次序及急迫性通知主管機關並且進行公告來請主委最後做一個說明目前我們醫院會的運作狀況"},{"start":646.007,"end":668.798,"text":"我們目前的運作通報確實是有分級啦那如同剛剛委員講的我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好謝謝主委我們這個工作都是很重要的關係到事件不只是事後調查我們在事前的預防相關資料分析來建立這樣的一個交通安全改善的一個重要基礎"},{"start":669.498,"end":676.583,"text":"這也是過去我提出啊 年度交通安全改善建議的這樣的一個建議書啊一個重要的基礎啦 以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":110,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時22分）謝謝召委，請一下林主委。"],["主席：請運安會林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：林主委你好。有關於5月19日三峽重大車禍造成嚴重傷亡，國人都非常錯愕與傷痛，當然在第一時間我有跟運安會聯絡，認為這件事情符合重大公路事故的調查要件，應該列入調查。當然，針對公路的事故調查條件，運安會有基本規範，第一個是交通運輸工具、貨物運輸工具以及大型自用車，造成3人以上死亡，或是10人受傷及死亡，或是15人以上受傷就列入事故調查的條件，或者是交通運輸工具、貨物運輸工具載有危險物質或放射物質，翻覆、外洩而造成死亡的話，也是列入調查。","另外一個就是我們所說的重大公路事件，造成社會注意的重大案件也必須要調查，現在調查的進度如何？請簡單說明一下，什麼時候會完成這個資料的報告，以及最終的調查報告？"],["林主任委員信得：我們1個月內會發布初步的報告，然後5個月內會發布事實資料的報告。"],["李委員昆澤：就是1個月是初步的報告……"],["林主任委員信得：對，初報會出來。"],["李委員昆澤：大概是在今年10月應該會發布資料的調查報告？"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["李委員昆澤：明年5月會完成相關的調查報告？"],["林主任委員信得：是最終的，對。"],["李委員昆澤：應該儘快地讓國人知道這樣一個相關的交通意外事故。"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，我們來看交通意外事故的預防，它的重要性越來越重要。我們看到運安會組織法第二條，就是運輸事故趨勢分析、運輸安全改善建議之追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究。是我們運安會組織的一個重要基礎。","我們來看看異常事故、異常事件或是中小型事故的統計跟分析是非常重要的，因為我們可以提前發現這些事故發生的隱憂，是預防事故發生的重要基礎，這就是一個基本的觀念。但是我看到近期具有潛在風險的異常事件，例如華信引擎蓋脫落的事件，或者是臺鐵列車停靠不當的事件，還有高鐵停站未開門的事件，或是公路客運大規模超時過勞的問題，這些不管是設備的問題、操作的問題，或者是人為因素的等等，運安會最主要的是事後調查，但是這個觀念也必須逐漸改變，國際的趨勢已經是從事後調查提升到事前預防，世界各國類似運安會的組織都已經朝這個趨勢。","當然，我們運安會必須要取得相關的資料，取得這些相關狀況的蒐集，當然也要參照世界各國主要安全調查機構的制度跟相關研究。我們看到資料掌握，還有風險預警是現在運輸安全治理的重要核心。我們國家並不是沒有預防的機制，也有啦……"],["林主任委員信得：有、有。"],["李委員昆澤：就是之前我長期在推動的自願報告系統，從飛安會時期到現在，但這樣的一個機制，其實還是明顯不足。我們事前的預防機制是參照歐美的自願報告系統，但是對個案的處理卻難以系統性的預防，沒有辦法做到系統性的預防，所以我看我們應該跟世界各國一樣。我舉加拿大為例，加拿大各交通系統發生異常事件，要立刻依法通報加拿大的運安會，而且建立資料庫進行統計分析。主委，這就是說，我們都是消極地等待這些自願報告系統，不管是駕駛者或乘客所提供的自願報告系統，他們消極的提供，我們才去做相關的處理。但是世界各國現在如果有異常事故的話，發生這種狀況雖然沒有發生事故，這些事件沒有發生成事故，但還是會主動依法通報他們的運安會，而且會建立資料庫進行分析，不過我們現在並沒有直接的機制。請主委說明一下。"],["林主任委員信得：我們有這個機制啦！我們現在的自願報告系統就是這個機制，然後我們的……"],["李委員昆澤：但是我們沒有依法，就是當他們發生這種異常事故、異常事件的時候，要依法通報運安會，我們是依照自願報告系統。"],["林主任委員信得：除了自願報告系統以外，各機關發生像near miss，也就是虛驚事件，他們都會通報，我們這邊都有統計。到目前為止，幾乎百分之一百都會通報，而且事前就……"],["李委員昆澤：交通部各單位發生這樣的異常事件，不是事故喔，發生異常事件的時候，他們就會依法直接通報你們，是嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：他們會通報。"],["李委員昆澤：你要確定喔！臺鐵每年發生的異常事件非常地多，每一件他們都有依法通報你們嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：因為當它通報有一些near miss，比較……"],["李委員昆澤：你們還要主動向他們調閱耶！"],["林主任委員信得：沒有，當它累積到某一個次數的時候，我們會跟它講，你這個事件好像頻率很高，這時就如同委員一直關心的，我們會啟動，所以目前兩邊都是互通的，沒有說會……"],["李委員昆澤：主委，你的瞭解和認知跟我有差距啦，運安會從你在當民航局副局長的時候，我就在交通委員會長期推動運安會相關的組織以及它運作的狀況。當然，我非常清楚，我們過去是自願報告系統，是「自願」耶！不是依法通報運安會以建立資料庫，所以現在是這個機制的主動性跟消極性的差別，你去瞭解啦！"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["李委員昆澤：你去瞭解啦！你們的組織法跟調查法還是我訂的。"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["李委員昆澤：這個機制，希望你能夠去瞭解一下。"],["林主任委員信得：我們要把它……"],["李委員昆澤：我們從分析事故預防資料的完整性……資料完整性的分析是很重要的，所以我說不只是自願報告系統，而是要主動依法提供給我們的運安會，而且要建立資料庫統計跟分析。事前預防都是國際趨勢，都可以看出我們必須要有這樣一個積極的作為。運安會能夠掌握這種交通事故以及異常事件的資訊，對促進交通安全的重要性非常重要，所以我建議要擴大資料的調閱權限，運安會要有主動的調閱權限。我們來檢討一下相關的法令機制，因為現在只是自願報告系統，而且是你們跟他們調閱的時候，他們才給，並不是依法每一件都要送到你們這邊，而且要建立資料庫的分析。","另外，也要跟交通部協調取得各交通系統資料庫調閱的權限，公路局的資料、臺鐵公司的資料、高鐵公司的資料，你們應該隨時都可以取得相關的資訊，而且要進行統計分析，作為預防的工作。長期來說，我認為應該要建立資料自動介接同步整合的資料庫，各交通主管機關要協調所需的資料，而且要建立交換的格式，這個請主委跟我們相關的人員朝這個方面努力。","最後就是強化分級的管理，以推動安全的改善。異常事件或事故的趨勢分析以及改善建議，我們要以風險的危害性，以及發生的機率進行分級，並列出改善的優先次序及急迫性，要通知主管機關並且進行公告。最後請主委說明目前運安會的運作狀況。"],["林主任委員信得：我們目前的運作狀況確實是有分級，如同剛剛委員講的，我們事實上可以把這個分級再嚴謹一點比較好。"],["李委員昆澤：好，謝謝主委，這些工作都是很重要的……"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝。"],["李委員昆澤：關係到事件，不只是事後的調查，我們也透過事前的預防、相關資料的分析，建立交通安全改善的重要基礎，這也是過去我提出年度交通安全改善建議書的一個重要基礎，以上。"],["林主任委員信得：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李昆澤委員的質詢。"],["主席（李委員昆澤代）：現在請林國成召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":552,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-13","speakers":["林國成","陳素月","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林俊憲","許智傑","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","邱若華","何欣純","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥"],"page_start":515,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案","agenda_id":"1145501_00017"}}}