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00:00:12,258\n好謝謝主席我想請林主委請林主委何滬主委何滬主委張委員張委員林委員竹密執行長執行長各位好\n\n2\n00:00:26,055 --> 00:00:34,069\n主委我為什麼把所有重要的人都把他請來我還是要呼籲\n\n3\n00:00:35,538 --> 00:01:04,706\n因為有一些人家還在說你們在內鬥可是我一再跟他講林主委領導之下現在已經一團和氣你也知道內鬥就無華工作但是團結就有辦法去對外所以我特別要請五位不管是副主委或委員或者執行長主任你們現在主委\n\n4\n00:01:05,697 --> 00:01:24,740\n就做林主委所以他的領導就會影響整個我們應安會的組織功能調查等等這些的事情所以請你們上來主要讓你們有責任的一個分享那我也要拜託主委\n\n5\n00:01:25,501 --> 00:01:52,272\n不要落人口舌一直好像我們應安會單位不大但是給人家留下口舌這樣就不好這樣就不好這個我特別要提醒你在領導過程當中因為我們的單位是一個專業單位為什麼要冠上國家兩制國家兩制就是非常\n\n6\n00:01:53,132 --> 00:02:07,567\n我們的獨立調查的一個單位這點我要期免我們所有的官員跟主委在領導之下要有領導統一才有辦法去針對交通事故\n\n7\n00:02:08,348 --> 00:02:34,818\n你你知道這個責任非常重大欸你陸上航空海運通通我們在做調查所以主委你的責任重大在領導之下要把這些要團結一致這是我給你們的一個啟齊好那個主委因為那個三重跟台南這個案件啊說實在是社會矚目啦\n\n8\n00:02:35,598 --> 00:02:55,859\n也就是說不管他今天發生的事故到底是什麼可是我還是要拜託主委你們有沒有辦法把這個時程既然社會矚目的交通事故的調查有沒有可能不要一窮不變\n\n9\n00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:22,497\n單純的調查在三個月六個月就把它完成不要因為我們的規定啊要一年啊要兩年啊我跟你講台灣話說一句話啊這就廢笑啊就廢話啊你是在調查什麼社會矚目要有一個社會矚目的調查的時辰所以主委有沒有可能就是加快腳步\n\n10\n00:03:23,377 --> 00:03:50,291\n三到六個月就把真相把它調查清楚有沒有可能我也希望這樣子加快啦但是它有一定的程序在走啦我可以加進不要12個月也許提早到11個月但是因為這個調查官都是獨立做而且我剛剛包括過我們分成車輛分組分成操作分組生還因素分組紀錄性分組這些都是要科學儀器再測再量再走\n\n11\n00:03:51,731 --> 00:04:06,500\n我們蠻期待這樣啦社會矚目的問題越早讓公布社會讓社會知道越好也會樹立到我們應安會裡面調查的威信問題啦所以我還是希望\n\n12\n00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:24,259\n我們這個上台的這幾位重要幹部啊好好研究一下單純的速度就快複雜的當然要有時效的問題這個我們也是支持但是我們蠻期待的像這種公路啊或什麼\n\n13\n00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:36,645\n你航空啊海運啊這個是比較困難可是道路的問題是比較單純所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步好另外一個問題就是從單一的調查\n\n14\n00:04:41,462 --> 00:05:09,018\n可以解決系統的問題那這裡啊單一的問題也就是系統的問題你們要怎麼要有固定我看你們從來也沒有做這只有把調查報告出來以後就交給各有關單位他們去改善但是我還是在這裡一個建議啦單一的事項調查有可能解決系統性的問題\n\n15\n00:05:09,838 --> 00:05:32,030\n也不是說你每一件調查以後但是系統性是沒有解決啊所以有沒有可能我建議也就是上台的這幾位重要幹部要藏跟要藏跟交通部的運輸研究所因為為什麼那些運輸研究所他是在研究\n\n16\n00:05:33,035 --> 00:05:58,380\n他的結構性他的事情的發生但是你們調查以後丟給他們他們沒有在做研究那等於沒有系統性的解決所以在這個部分我還是滿建議這個應該主委你主動下去做就是請他們我調查出來的時候請你來表示意見也就是我調查出來的缺點跟調查出來的結構\n\n17\n00:05:59,824 --> 00:06:15,621\n哪邊有問題他們去研究才好我看這現在研究機構跟你們調查機構他做他的他做那怎麼會有系統性的解決呢所以主委你針對本席給你建議這些你有什麼看法\n\n18\n00:06:16,272 --> 00:06:24,775\n我覺得是很好的建議我們可以跟他溝通看看他能不能選擇性的做研究沒有你要主動要求我相信交通部部長他也不會反對為什麼系統性解決事端就會少可是問題現在就是這樣一切為二他做他的研究你做你的調查就會形成什麼沒有系統性的連結\n\n19\n00:06:45,143 --> 00:07:12,110\n也就是單一事件發生並非解決系統的問題那他的研究單位存在跟你的調查單位存在永遠格格不入他的研究是提供給交通政策但是你的調查只基於調查可是那研究單位不知道啊他研究不出來系統性如何去解決所以我要拜託主委你主動\n\n20\n00:07:13,257 --> 00:07:39,171\n你主動主動邀請他們把資料提供給他們可是他們研究不出來你的責任已了我認為應該要怎麼做但是你們研究出來也不提供給交通部那當然就會形成現在這個交通的這種紛亂因為你們的研究單位現在我特別跟主委說明你們現在的權威性\n\n21\n00:07:40,171 --> 00:08:05,350\n跟專業性越來越重人民期待你們的真相所以你不得不做這些所以我拜託這個部分那另外一個最後我要特別也就是說我們自願報到系統也就是公路這個成效很差的你回去這一組要特別來下一張這個你看一下\n\n22\n00:08:06,656 --> 00:08:25,997\n主委當然啦因為任何的事情要民意代表跟你們指責出來指點出來你們才去做研究啦從108年到現在你們這個案子到最後調查出來公開成案的機率非常少也就是\n\n23\n00:08:27,519 --> 00:08:40,611\n這個自願報告的案件數59件但是成案的只有15件會在這個部分去做說明這代表什麼這代表宣導是不做的啦\n\n24\n00:08:41,499 --> 00:09:09,901\n所以我主張我主張也就是剛才我講的跟那個交通部的運輸手我們多研究你編一點預算嘛你們自動編嘛跟他們做一個交流甚至於我還是主張你們要去多去什麼多編一點預算要去跟國外人家做的非常有系統的這些調查單位去做交流這點我個人是蠻支持的\n\n25\n00:09:10,721 --> 00:09:29,313\n蠻支持的因為你沒有國際的做研究那最後確確實實在這個部分我們只有蹲在台灣的東西別人的先進國際的東西我們接軌不來的話我們永遠都是這樣改變不了系統性所以這點我還是要建議\n\n26\n00:09:30,434 --> 00:09:54,873\n下年度可能要快編預算我認為這個一定要去編預算所以希望我們主委要去爭取這兩個系統一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導第二個該跟學術團體做研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部包括副主委\n\n27\n00:09:55,333 --> 00:10:18,720\n包括這個各位專委還有我們這些執行長跟這個組密這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見把它及時廣益把它做到最後歸納可以調查跟研究結合把它改變系統性的東西可以不可以主委好我們朝這方面來努力好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t12258\t好謝謝主席我想請林主委請林主委何滬主委何滬主委張委員張委員林委員竹密執行長執行長各位好\n26055\t34069\t主委我為什麼把所有重要的人都把他請來我還是要呼籲\n35538\t64706\t因為有一些人家還在說你們在內鬥可是我一再跟他講林主委領導之下現在已經一團和氣你也知道內鬥就無華工作但是團結就有辦法去對外所以我特別要請五位不管是副主委或委員或者執行長主任你們現在主委\n65697\t84740\t就做林主委所以他的領導就會影響整個我們應安會的組織功能調查等等這些的事情所以請你們上來主要讓你們有責任的一個分享那我也要拜託主委\n85501\t112272\t不要落人口舌一直好像我們應安會單位不大但是給人家留下口舌這樣就不好這樣就不好這個我特別要提醒你在領導過程當中因為我們的單位是一個專業單位為什麼要冠上國家兩制國家兩制就是非常\n113132\t127567\t我們的獨立調查的一個單位這點我要期免我們所有的官員跟主委在領導之下要有領導統一才有辦法去針對交通事故\n128348\t154818\t你 你知道這個責任非常重大欸你陸上 航空 海運通通我們在做調查所以主委 你的責任重大在領導之下 要把這些要團結一致這是我給你們的一個啟齊好 那個 主委因為那個三重跟台南這個案件啊說實在 是社會矚目啦\n155598\t175859\t也就是說不管他今天發生的事故到底是什麼可是我還是要拜託主委你們有沒有辦法把這個時程既然社會矚目的交通事故的調查有沒有可能不要一窮不變\n177680\t202497\t單純的調查在三個月 六個月就把它完成不要因為我們的規定啊要一年啊 要兩年啊我跟你講 台灣話說一句話啊這就廢笑啊就廢話啊 你是在調查什麼社會矚目 要有一個社會矚目的調查的時辰所以 主委 有沒有可能就是加快腳步\n203377\t230291\t三到六個月就把真相把它調查清楚有沒有可能我也希望這樣子加快啦但是它有一定的程序在走啦我可以加進不要12個月也許提早到11個月但是因為這個調查官都是獨立做而且我剛剛包括過我們分成車輛分組分成操作分組生還因素分組紀錄性分組這些都是要科學儀器再測再量再走\n231731\t246500\t我們蠻期待這樣啦社會矚目的問題越早讓公布社會讓社會知道越好也會樹立到我們應安會裡面調查的威信問題啦所以我還是希望\n247040\t264259\t我們這個上台的這幾位重要幹部啊好好研究一下單純的速度就快複雜的當然要有時效的問題這個我們也是支持但是我們蠻期待的像這種公路啊或什麼\n265680\t276645\t你航空啊 海運啊這個是比較困難可是道路的問題是比較單純所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步好 另外一個問題就是從單一的調查\n281462\t309018\t可以解決系統的問題那這裡啊單一的問題也就是系統的問題你們要怎麼要有固定我看你們從來也沒有做這只有把調查報告出來以後就交給各有關單位他們去改善但是我還是在這裡一個建議啦單一的事項調查有可能解決系統性的問題\n309838\t332030\t也不是說你每一件調查以後 但是系統性是沒有解決啊所以有沒有可能我建議 也就是上台的這幾位重要幹部要藏跟 要藏跟交通部的運輸研究所因為為什麼 那些運輸研究所他是在研究\n333035\t358380\t他的結構性他的事情的發生但是你們調查以後丟給他們他們沒有在做研究那等於沒有系統性的解決所以在這個部分我還是滿建議這個應該主委你主動下去做就是請他們我調查出來的時候請你來表示意見也就是我調查出來的缺點跟調查出來的結構\n359824\t375621\t哪邊有問題他們去研究才好我看這現在研究機構跟你們調查機構他做他的他做那怎麼會有系統性的解決呢所以主委你針對本席給你建議這些你有什麼看法\n376272\t384775\t我覺得是很好的建議我們可以跟他溝通看看他能不能選擇性的做研究沒有 你要主動要求我相信交通部部長他也不會反對 為什麼系統性解決 事端就會少可是問題現在就是這樣一切為二他做他的研究 你做你的調查就會形成什麼沒有系統性的連結\n405143\t432110\t也就是單一事件發生並非解決系統的問題那他的研究單位存在跟你的調查單位存在永遠格格不入他的研究是提供給交通政策但是你的調查只基於調查可是那研究單位不知道啊他研究不出來系統性如何去解決所以我要拜託主委你主動\n433257\t459171\t你主動主動邀請他們把資料提供給他們可是他們研究不出來你的責任已了我認為應該要怎麼做但是你們研究出來也不提供給交通部那當然就會形成現在這個交通的這種紛亂因為你們的研究單位現在我特別跟主委說明你們現在的權威性\n460171\t485350\t跟專業性越來越重人民期待你們的真相所以你不得不做這些所以我拜託這個部分那另外一個最後我要特別也就是說我們自願報到系統也就是公路這個成效很差的你回去這一組要特別來下一張這個你看一下\n486656\t505997\t主委當然啦因為任何的事情要民意代表跟你們指責出來指點出來你們才去做研究啦從108年到現在你們這個案子到最後調查出來公開成案的機率非常少也就是\n507519\t520611\t這個自願報告的案件數59件但是成案的只有15件會在這個部分去做說明這代表什麼 這代表宣導是不做的啦\n521499\t549901\t所以我主張我主張也就是剛才我講的跟那個交通部的運輸手我們多研究你編一點預算嘛你們自動編嘛跟他們做一個交流甚至於我還是主張你們要去多去什麼多編一點預算要去跟國外人家做的非常有系統的這些調查單位去做交流這點我個人是蠻支持的\n550721\t569313\t蠻支持的因為你沒有國際的做研究那最後確確實實在這個部分我們只有蹲在台灣的東西別人的先進 國際的東西我們接軌不來的話我們永遠都是這樣改變不了系統性所以這點我還是要建議\n570434\t594873\t下年度可能要快編預算我認為這個一定要去編預算所以希望我們主委要去爭取這兩個系統一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導第二個該跟學術團體做研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部包括副主委\n595333\t618720\t包括這個各位專委還有我們這些執行長跟這個組密這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見把它及時廣益把它做到最後歸納可以調查跟研究結合把它改變系統性的東西可以不可以 主委好 我們朝這方面來努力好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我想請林主委請林主委何滬主委何滬主委張委員張委員林委員竹密執行長執行長各位好\n主委我為什麼把所有重要的人都把他請來我還是要呼籲\n因為有一些人家還在說你們在內鬥可是我一再跟他講林主委領導之下現在已經一團和氣你也知道內鬥就無華工作但是團結就有辦法去對外所以我特別要請五位不管是副主委或委員或者執行長主任你們現在主委\n就做林主委所以他的領導就會影響整個我們應安會的組織功能調查等等這些的事情所以請你們上來主要讓你們有責任的一個分享那我也要拜託主委\n不要落人口舌一直好像我們應安會單位不大但是給人家留下口舌這樣就不好這樣就不好這個我特別要提醒你在領導過程當中因為我們的單位是一個專業單位為什麼要冠上國家兩制國家兩制就是非常\n我們的獨立調查的一個單位這點我要期免我們所有的官員跟主委在領導之下要有領導統一才有辦法去針對交通事故\n你 你知道這個責任非常重大欸你陸上 航空 海運通通我們在做調查所以主委 你的責任重大在領導之下 要把這些要團結一致這是我給你們的一個啟齊好 那個 主委因為那個三重跟台南這個案件啊說實在 是社會矚目啦\n也就是說不管他今天發生的事故到底是什麼可是我還是要拜託主委你們有沒有辦法把這個時程既然社會矚目的交通事故的調查有沒有可能不要一窮不變\n單純的調查在三個月 六個月就把它完成不要因為我們的規定啊要一年啊 要兩年啊我跟你講 台灣話說一句話啊這就廢笑啊就廢話啊 你是在調查什麼社會矚目 要有一個社會矚目的調查的時辰所以 主委 有沒有可能就是加快腳步\n三到六個月就把真相把它調查清楚有沒有可能我也希望這樣子加快啦但是它有一定的程序在走啦我可以加進不要12個月也許提早到11個月但是因為這個調查官都是獨立做而且我剛剛包括過我們分成車輛分組分成操作分組生還因素分組紀錄性分組這些都是要科學儀器再測再量再走\n我們蠻期待這樣啦社會矚目的問題越早讓公布社會讓社會知道越好也會樹立到我們應安會裡面調查的威信問題啦所以我還是希望\n我們這個上台的這幾位重要幹部啊好好研究一下單純的速度就快複雜的當然要有時效的問題這個我們也是支持但是我們蠻期待的像這種公路啊或什麼\n你航空啊 海運啊這個是比較困難可是道路的問題是比較單純所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步好 另外一個問題就是從單一的調查\n可以解決系統的問題那這裡啊單一的問題也就是系統的問題你們要怎麼要有固定我看你們從來也沒有做這只有把調查報告出來以後就交給各有關單位他們去改善但是我還是在這裡一個建議啦單一的事項調查有可能解決系統性的問題\n也不是說你每一件調查以後 但是系統性是沒有解決啊所以有沒有可能我建議 也就是上台的這幾位重要幹部要藏跟 要藏跟交通部的運輸研究所因為為什麼 那些運輸研究所他是在研究\n他的結構性他的事情的發生但是你們調查以後丟給他們他們沒有在做研究那等於沒有系統性的解決所以在這個部分我還是滿建議這個應該主委你主動下去做就是請他們我調查出來的時候請你來表示意見也就是我調查出來的缺點跟調查出來的結構\n哪邊有問題他們去研究才好我看這現在研究機構跟你們調查機構他做他的他做那怎麼會有系統性的解決呢所以主委你針對本席給你建議這些你有什麼看法\n我覺得是很好的建議我們可以跟他溝通看看他能不能選擇性的做研究沒有 你要主動要求我相信交通部部長他也不會反對 為什麼系統性解決 事端就會少可是問題現在就是這樣一切為二他做他的研究 你做你的調查就會形成什麼沒有系統性的連結\n也就是單一事件發生並非解決系統的問題那他的研究單位存在跟你的調查單位存在永遠格格不入他的研究是提供給交通政策但是你的調查只基於調查可是那研究單位不知道啊他研究不出來系統性如何去解決所以我要拜託主委你主動\n你主動主動邀請他們把資料提供給他們可是他們研究不出來你的責任已了我認為應該要怎麼做但是你們研究出來也不提供給交通部那當然就會形成現在這個交通的這種紛亂因為你們的研究單位現在我特別跟主委說明你們現在的權威性\n跟專業性越來越重人民期待你們的真相所以你不得不做這些所以我拜託這個部分那另外一個最後我要特別也就是說我們自願報到系統也就是公路這個成效很差的你回去這一組要特別來下一張這個你看一下\n主委當然啦因為任何的事情要民意代表跟你們指責出來指點出來你們才去做研究啦從108年到現在你們這個案子到最後調查出來公開成案的機率非常少也就是\n這個自願報告的案件數59件但是成案的只有15件會在這個部分去做說明這代表什麼 這代表宣導是不做的啦\n所以我主張我主張也就是剛才我講的跟那個交通部的運輸手我們多研究你編一點預算嘛你們自動編嘛跟他們做一個交流甚至於我還是主張你們要去多去什麼多編一點預算要去跟國外人家做的非常有系統的這些調查單位去做交流這點我個人是蠻支持的\n蠻支持的因為你沒有國際的做研究那最後確確實實在這個部分我們只有蹲在台灣的東西別人的先進 國際的東西我們接軌不來的話我們永遠都是這樣改變不了系統性所以這點我還是要建議\n下年度可能要快編預算我認為這個一定要去編預算所以希望我們主委要去爭取這兩個系統一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導第二個該跟學術團體做研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部包括副主委\n包括這個各位專委還有我們這些執行長跟這個組密這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見把它及時廣益把它做到最後歸納可以調查跟研究結合把它改變系統性的東西可以不可以 主委好 我們朝這方面來努力好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:12.258\n好謝謝主席我想請林主委請林主委何滬主委何滬主委張委員張委員林委員竹密執行長執行長各位好\n\n00:26.055 --> 00:34.069\n主委我為什麼把所有重要的人都把他請來我還是要呼籲\n\n00:35.538 --> 01:04.706\n因為有一些人家還在說你們在內鬥可是我一再跟他講林主委領導之下現在已經一團和氣你也知道內鬥就無華工作但是團結就有辦法去對外所以我特別要請五位不管是副主委或委員或者執行長主任你們現在主委\n\n01:05.697 --> 01:24.740\n就做林主委所以他的領導就會影響整個我們應安會的組織功能調查等等這些的事情所以請你們上來主要讓你們有責任的一個分享那我也要拜託主委\n\n01:25.501 --> 01:52.272\n不要落人口舌一直好像我們應安會單位不大但是給人家留下口舌這樣就不好這樣就不好這個我特別要提醒你在領導過程當中因為我們的單位是一個專業單位為什麼要冠上國家兩制國家兩制就是非常\n\n01:53.132 --> 02:07.567\n我們的獨立調查的一個單位這點我要期免我們所有的官員跟主委在領導之下要有領導統一才有辦法去針對交通事故\n\n02:08.348 --> 02:34.818\n你你知道這個責任非常重大欸你陸上航空海運通通我們在做調查所以主委你的責任重大在領導之下要把這些要團結一致這是我給你們的一個啟齊好那個主委因為那個三重跟台南這個案件啊說實在是社會矚目啦\n\n02:35.598 --> 02:55.859\n也就是說不管他今天發生的事故到底是什麼可是我還是要拜託主委你們有沒有辦法把這個時程既然社會矚目的交通事故的調查有沒有可能不要一窮不變\n\n02:57.680 --> 03:22.497\n單純的調查在三個月六個月就把它完成不要因為我們的規定啊要一年啊要兩年啊我跟你講台灣話說一句話啊這就廢笑啊就廢話啊你是在調查什麼社會矚目要有一個社會矚目的調查的時辰所以主委有沒有可能就是加快腳步\n\n03:23.377 --> 03:50.291\n三到六個月就把真相把它調查清楚有沒有可能我也希望這樣子加快啦但是它有一定的程序在走啦我可以加進不要12個月也許提早到11個月但是因為這個調查官都是獨立做而且我剛剛包括過我們分成車輛分組分成操作分組生還因素分組紀錄性分組這些都是要科學儀器再測再量再走\n\n03:51.731 --> 04:06.500\n我們蠻期待這樣啦社會矚目的問題越早讓公布社會讓社會知道越好也會樹立到我們應安會裡面調查的威信問題啦所以我還是希望\n\n04:07.040 --> 04:24.259\n我們這個上台的這幾位重要幹部啊好好研究一下單純的速度就快複雜的當然要有時效的問題這個我們也是支持但是我們蠻期待的像這種公路啊或什麼\n\n04:25.680 --> 04:36.645\n你航空啊海運啊這個是比較困難可是道路的問題是比較單純所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步好另外一個問題就是從單一的調查\n\n04:41.462 --> 05:09.018\n可以解決系統的問題那這裡啊單一的問題也就是系統的問題你們要怎麼要有固定我看你們從來也沒有做這只有把調查報告出來以後就交給各有關單位他們去改善但是我還是在這裡一個建議啦單一的事項調查有可能解決系統性的問題\n\n05:09.838 --> 05:32.030\n也不是說你每一件調查以後但是系統性是沒有解決啊所以有沒有可能我建議也就是上台的這幾位重要幹部要藏跟要藏跟交通部的運輸研究所因為為什麼那些運輸研究所他是在研究\n\n05:33.035 --> 05:58.380\n他的結構性他的事情的發生但是你們調查以後丟給他們他們沒有在做研究那等於沒有系統性的解決所以在這個部分我還是滿建議這個應該主委你主動下去做就是請他們我調查出來的時候請你來表示意見也就是我調查出來的缺點跟調查出來的結構\n\n05:59.824 --> 06:15.621\n哪邊有問題他們去研究才好我看這現在研究機構跟你們調查機構他做他的他做那怎麼會有系統性的解決呢所以主委你針對本席給你建議這些你有什麼看法\n\n06:16.272 --> 06:24.775\n我覺得是很好的建議我們可以跟他溝通看看他能不能選擇性的做研究沒有你要主動要求我相信交通部部長他也不會反對為什麼系統性解決事端就會少可是問題現在就是這樣一切為二他做他的研究你做你的調查就會形成什麼沒有系統性的連結\n\n06:45.143 --> 07:12.110\n也就是單一事件發生並非解決系統的問題那他的研究單位存在跟你的調查單位存在永遠格格不入他的研究是提供給交通政策但是你的調查只基於調查可是那研究單位不知道啊他研究不出來系統性如何去解決所以我要拜託主委你主動\n\n07:13.257 --> 07:39.171\n你主動主動邀請他們把資料提供給他們可是他們研究不出來你的責任已了我認為應該要怎麼做但是你們研究出來也不提供給交通部那當然就會形成現在這個交通的這種紛亂因為你們的研究單位現在我特別跟主委說明你們現在的權威性\n\n07:40.171 --> 08:05.350\n跟專業性越來越重人民期待你們的真相所以你不得不做這些所以我拜託這個部分那另外一個最後我要特別也就是說我們自願報到系統也就是公路這個成效很差的你回去這一組要特別來下一張這個你看一下\n\n08:06.656 --> 08:25.997\n主委當然啦因為任何的事情要民意代表跟你們指責出來指點出來你們才去做研究啦從108年到現在你們這個案子到最後調查出來公開成案的機率非常少也就是\n\n08:27.519 --> 08:40.611\n這個自願報告的案件數59件但是成案的只有15件會在這個部分去做說明這代表什麼這代表宣導是不做的啦\n\n08:41.499 --> 09:09.901\n所以我主張我主張也就是剛才我講的跟那個交通部的運輸手我們多研究你編一點預算嘛你們自動編嘛跟他們做一個交流甚至於我還是主張你們要去多去什麼多編一點預算要去跟國外人家做的非常有系統的這些調查單位去做交流這點我個人是蠻支持的\n\n09:10.721 --> 09:29.313\n蠻支持的因為你沒有國際的做研究那最後確確實實在這個部分我們只有蹲在台灣的東西別人的先進國際的東西我們接軌不來的話我們永遠都是這樣改變不了系統性所以這點我還是要建議\n\n09:30.434 --> 09:54.873\n下年度可能要快編預算我認為這個一定要去編預算所以希望我們主委要去爭取這兩個系統一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導第二個該跟學術團體做研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部包括副主委\n\n09:55.333 --> 10:18.720\n包括這個各位專委還有我們這些執行長跟這個組密這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見把它及時廣益把它做到最後歸納可以調查跟研究結合把它改變系統性的東西可以不可以主委好我們朝這方面來努力好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":12.258,"text":"好謝謝主席我想請林主委請林主委何滬主委何滬主委張委員張委員林委員竹密執行長執行長各位好"},{"start":26.055,"end":34.069,"text":"主委我為什麼把所有重要的人都把他請來我還是要呼籲"},{"start":35.538,"end":64.706,"text":"因為有一些人家還在說你們在內鬥可是我一再跟他講林主委領導之下現在已經一團和氣你也知道內鬥就無華工作但是團結就有辦法去對外所以我特別要請五位不管是副主委或委員或者執行長主任你們現在主委"},{"start":65.697,"end":84.74,"text":"就做林主委所以他的領導就會影響整個我們應安會的組織功能調查等等這些的事情所以請你們上來主要讓你們有責任的一個分享那我也要拜託主委"},{"start":85.501,"end":112.272,"text":"不要落人口舌一直好像我們應安會單位不大但是給人家留下口舌這樣就不好這樣就不好這個我特別要提醒你在領導過程當中因為我們的單位是一個專業單位為什麼要冠上國家兩制國家兩制就是非常"},{"start":113.132,"end":127.567,"text":"我們的獨立調查的一個單位這點我要期免我們所有的官員跟主委在領導之下要有領導統一才有辦法去針對交通事故"},{"start":128.348,"end":154.818,"text":"你 你知道這個責任非常重大欸你陸上 航空 海運通通我們在做調查所以主委 你的責任重大在領導之下 要把這些要團結一致這是我給你們的一個啟齊好 那個 主委因為那個三重跟台南這個案件啊說實在 是社會矚目啦"},{"start":155.598,"end":175.859,"text":"也就是說不管他今天發生的事故到底是什麼可是我還是要拜託主委你們有沒有辦法把這個時程既然社會矚目的交通事故的調查有沒有可能不要一窮不變"},{"start":177.68,"end":202.497,"text":"單純的調查在三個月 六個月就把它完成不要因為我們的規定啊要一年啊 要兩年啊我跟你講 台灣話說一句話啊這就廢笑啊就廢話啊 你是在調查什麼社會矚目 要有一個社會矚目的調查的時辰所以 主委 有沒有可能就是加快腳步"},{"start":203.377,"end":230.291,"text":"三到六個月就把真相把它調查清楚有沒有可能我也希望這樣子加快啦但是它有一定的程序在走啦我可以加進不要12個月也許提早到11個月但是因為這個調查官都是獨立做而且我剛剛包括過我們分成車輛分組分成操作分組生還因素分組紀錄性分組這些都是要科學儀器再測再量再走"},{"start":231.731,"end":246.5,"text":"我們蠻期待這樣啦社會矚目的問題越早讓公布社會讓社會知道越好也會樹立到我們應安會裡面調查的威信問題啦所以我還是希望"},{"start":247.04,"end":264.259,"text":"我們這個上台的這幾位重要幹部啊好好研究一下單純的速度就快複雜的當然要有時效的問題這個我們也是支持但是我們蠻期待的像這種公路啊或什麼"},{"start":265.68,"end":276.645,"text":"你航空啊 海運啊這個是比較困難可是道路的問題是比較單純所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步好 另外一個問題就是從單一的調查"},{"start":281.462,"end":309.018,"text":"可以解決系統的問題那這裡啊單一的問題也就是系統的問題你們要怎麼要有固定我看你們從來也沒有做這只有把調查報告出來以後就交給各有關單位他們去改善但是我還是在這裡一個建議啦單一的事項調查有可能解決系統性的問題"},{"start":309.838,"end":332.03,"text":"也不是說你每一件調查以後 但是系統性是沒有解決啊所以有沒有可能我建議 也就是上台的這幾位重要幹部要藏跟 要藏跟交通部的運輸研究所因為為什麼 那些運輸研究所他是在研究"},{"start":333.035,"end":358.38,"text":"他的結構性他的事情的發生但是你們調查以後丟給他們他們沒有在做研究那等於沒有系統性的解決所以在這個部分我還是滿建議這個應該主委你主動下去做就是請他們我調查出來的時候請你來表示意見也就是我調查出來的缺點跟調查出來的結構"},{"start":359.824,"end":375.621,"text":"哪邊有問題他們去研究才好我看這現在研究機構跟你們調查機構他做他的他做那怎麼會有系統性的解決呢所以主委你針對本席給你建議這些你有什麼看法"},{"start":376.272,"end":384.775,"text":"我覺得是很好的建議我們可以跟他溝通看看他能不能選擇性的做研究沒有 你要主動要求我相信交通部部長他也不會反對 為什麼系統性解決 事端就會少可是問題現在就是這樣一切為二他做他的研究 你做你的調查就會形成什麼沒有系統性的連結"},{"start":405.143,"end":432.11,"text":"也就是單一事件發生並非解決系統的問題那他的研究單位存在跟你的調查單位存在永遠格格不入他的研究是提供給交通政策但是你的調查只基於調查可是那研究單位不知道啊他研究不出來系統性如何去解決所以我要拜託主委你主動"},{"start":433.257,"end":459.171,"text":"你主動主動邀請他們把資料提供給他們可是他們研究不出來你的責任已了我認為應該要怎麼做但是你們研究出來也不提供給交通部那當然就會形成現在這個交通的這種紛亂因為你們的研究單位現在我特別跟主委說明你們現在的權威性"},{"start":460.171,"end":485.35,"text":"跟專業性越來越重人民期待你們的真相所以你不得不做這些所以我拜託這個部分那另外一個最後我要特別也就是說我們自願報到系統也就是公路這個成效很差的你回去這一組要特別來下一張這個你看一下"},{"start":486.656,"end":505.997,"text":"主委當然啦因為任何的事情要民意代表跟你們指責出來指點出來你們才去做研究啦從108年到現在你們這個案子到最後調查出來公開成案的機率非常少也就是"},{"start":507.519,"end":520.611,"text":"這個自願報告的案件數59件但是成案的只有15件會在這個部分去做說明這代表什麼 這代表宣導是不做的啦"},{"start":521.499,"end":549.901,"text":"所以我主張我主張也就是剛才我講的跟那個交通部的運輸手我們多研究你編一點預算嘛你們自動編嘛跟他們做一個交流甚至於我還是主張你們要去多去什麼多編一點預算要去跟國外人家做的非常有系統的這些調查單位去做交流這點我個人是蠻支持的"},{"start":550.721,"end":569.313,"text":"蠻支持的因為你沒有國際的做研究那最後確確實實在這個部分我們只有蹲在台灣的東西別人的先進 國際的東西我們接軌不來的話我們永遠都是這樣改變不了系統性所以這點我還是要建議"},{"start":570.434,"end":594.873,"text":"下年度可能要快編預算我認為這個一定要去編預算所以希望我們主委要去爭取這兩個系統一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導第二個該跟學術團體做研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部包括副主委"},{"start":595.333,"end":618.72,"text":"包括這個各位專委還有我們這些執行長跟這個組密這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見把它及時廣益把它做到最後歸納可以調查跟研究結合把它改變系統性的東西可以不可以 主委好 我們朝這方面來努力好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":155,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時33分）謝謝主席，我想請林主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林委員國成：何副主委。"],["主席：請何副主委。"],["林委員國成：張委員、李委員、主秘、執行長，全部上來。"],["主席：請張委員、李委員、主秘、執行長。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好！"],["林委員國成：好！主委，我為什麼把所有重要的人都請來？我還是要呼籲，因為有一些人還在說你們在內鬥，可是我一再跟他講，在林主委領導之下，現在已經一團和氣，你也知道內鬥就無法工作，團結就有辦法去對外，所以我特別要請5位，不管是副主委，或者委員，或者執行長、主秘上來。你們現在的主委叫做林主委，所以他的領導就會影響整個運安會的組織、功能、調查等等這些事情。請你們上來，主要讓你們有責任的分享。我也要拜託主委，不要落人口實，運安會單位不大，但是好像一直落人口實，這樣就不好、這樣就不好……"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：我特別要期許你，在領導過程當中，你們的單位是一個專業單位，為什麼要冠上「國家」兩字？「國家」兩字就代表你們是一個獨立調查的單位，這一點我要期勉所有的官員及主委，在領導之下，要領導統一才有辦法針對交通事故。你知道這個責任非常重大，陸上、航空、海運，通通是你們調查，主委，所以你的責任重大，在領導之下，要團結一致，這是我給你們的一個期許。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：好。主委，因為三峽這個案件和臺南這個案件說實在是社會矚目，所以我還是要拜託主委，你們有沒有辦法讓這個時程加快腳步？既然這是社會矚目的交通事故調查，有沒有可能不要欲窮不變？單純的調查在3個月、6個月就完成，不要因為規定要1年、2年。我跟你講，臺灣話有一句話，都「火化去矣」，你還在調查什麼？社會矚目案件要有社會矚目的調查時程，主委有沒有可能加快腳步，3到6個月就把真相調查清楚，有沒有可能？"],["林主任委員信得：我也希望加快，但是它有一定的程序在走，我可以不要12個月，也許提早到11個月多，因為調查官都是獨立作業，而且我剛剛報告過，我們分成車輛分組、操作分組、生還因素分組、紀錄器分組，這些都要科學儀器再測、再量……"],["林委員國成：好，主委，我們蠻期待這樣，社會矚目的問題越早公布讓社會知道越好，這也會關係到運安會樹立調查威信的問題……"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["林委員國成：所以我還是希望上臺的這幾位重要幹部好好研究一下，單純的速度就快，複雜的當然要有時效的問題，這個我們是支持的，也蠻期待的，像航空的、海運的比較困難，可是道路的問題比較單純，所以我還是希望在這個部分要加速腳步。","另外一個問題，就是從單一事故的調查可以解決系統性的問題，但是我看你們從來也沒有做，調查報告出來以後，就只有交給各有關單位，讓他們去改善，所以我還是在這裡做一個建議，單一事故調查有可能解決系統性的問題，你不要每一件事故調查以後，但是系統性的問題沒有解決。所以我建議有沒有可能上臺的這幾位重要幹部要常常跟交通部運輸研究所交流，為什麼？運輸研究所是在研究結構性、事情的發生，但是你們調查以後報告丟給他們，他們沒有再做研究，等於沒有解決系統性的問題。所以我還是蠻建議，主委，這個你應該主動下去做，就是你調查出來的時候，請他們來表示意見，也就是你調查出來的缺點及調查出來結構哪邊有問題，他們要去研究才好。我看現在研究機構和你們調查機構是他做他的你做你的，那怎麼會解決系統性的問題呢？主委，針對本席給你建議的這些，你有什麼看法？"],["林主任委員信得：我覺得是很好的建議，我們可以跟他溝通，看看他能不能選擇性的做研究。"],["林委員國成：沒有，你要主動要求、你要主動要求，我相信交通部部長也不會反對，為什麼？解決系統性的問題，事端就會少，可是現在問題就是一切為二，他做他的研究，你做你的調查，就會形成什麼？沒有系統性的連結，也就是單一事故調查並沒有解決系統性的問題，他研究單位的存在和你調查單位的存在永遠格格不入，他的研究是提供給交通政策，你的調查只基於調查，可是研究單位不知道，他研究不出來，系統性的問題如何去解決？所以我要拜託主委，你主動……"],["林主任委員信得：是、是。"],["林委員國成：你主動邀請他們，把資料提供給他們，可是他們研究不出來，你的責任也已了，我認為應該要這麼做。你們調查出來也不提供給交通部，當然就會形成現在交通的這種混亂。我特別跟主委說明，現在你們調查單位的權威性及專業性越來越重，人民期待你們的真相，你不得不做這些，所以我拜託這個部分。","最後，我要特別提到，自願報告系統的公路項目成效很差，你回去要特別注意這個。主委，當然任何的事情，要民意代表給你們指責出來、指點出來，你們才去做研究。從108年到現在，你們最後公開成案的機率非常少，自願報告的案件數有59件，但是成案的只有15件，你們會在這個部分說明，這代表什麼？代表宣導是不足的，所以我主張，也就是剛才我講的，你要跟交通部運研所交流，請他多研究，你們自動編一點預算跟他們交流，甚至於我還是主張，你們要多編一點預算，要去跟國外做得非常有系統的調查單位交流，這一點我個人是蠻支持的，因為如果你沒有國際的做研究，最後確確實實在這個部分，我們只有蹲在臺灣的東西，別人先進的東西、國際的東西，我們無法接軌的話，我們就永遠都是這樣，改變不了系統性的東西，所以這點我還是要建議，可能快要編下年度預算了，我認為這個一定要編預算，所以希望主委要去爭取這兩個系統，一個就是該宣導的你們要宣導；第二個，該跟學術團體做研究的，研究出來才有辦法改變系統性的東西。所以我希望主委還有今天上來的重要幹部，包括副主委、各位專委，還有執行長跟主秘，這個部分你們要共同幫主委提供一點意見，集思廣益，把它做到最後的歸納，可以將調查跟研究結合，以改變系統性的東西。主委，可不可以？"],["林主任委員信得：好，我們會朝這方面努力。"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["主席（林委員國成）：接下來請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":552,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-13","speakers":["林國成","陳素月","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林俊憲","許智傑","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","邱若華","何欣純","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥"],"page_start":515,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案","agenda_id":"1145501_00017"}}}