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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:23,450\n之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員質詢好謝謝主席有請我們吳主委有請吳主委被質詢謝謝羅委員好好主委好主委最近我們台灣人來瘋\n\n2\n00:00:25,646 --> 00:00:51,147\n那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了\n\n3\n00:00:52,108 --> 00:00:56,438\n我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎\n\n4\n00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:32,032\n也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個\n\n5\n00:01:33,872 --> 00:01:55,823\n這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有一定會簽約的好那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個TideAI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起\n\n6\n00:01:57,473 --> 00:02:11,992\n我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會\n\n7\n00:02:15,441 --> 00:02:41,509\n政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵\n\n8\n00:02:42,389 --> 00:02:58,711\n我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方\n\n9\n00:03:00,015 --> 00:03:18,610\n是給少數人用還是開放學界產業可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡\n\n10\n00:03:20,829 --> 00:03:48,728\n揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來大躍進\n\n11\n00:03:50,229 --> 00:04:18,468\n那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖\n\n12\n00:04:20,323 --> 00:04:46,176\n我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個\n\n13\n00:04:50,429 --> 00:05:04,798\n現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的這個算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄\n\n14\n00:05:05,919 --> 00:05:22,414\n可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的\n\n15\n00:05:22,694 --> 00:05:41,304\n所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊\n\n16\n00:05:41,784 --> 00:06:04,906\n所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分謝謝羅委員這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊甚至還有衛福部國防部啊都會用到他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點\n\n17\n00:06:06,187 --> 00:06:27,749\n不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,林哥你認同嗎?謝謝羅委員,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的TideAI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產\n\n18\n00:06:28,830 --> 00:06:56,581\n但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援TIDE的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視TIDE而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給TIDEIITIDEMEET尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面\n\n19\n00:06:58,068 --> 00:07:20,055\n對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。\n\n20\n00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:43,753\n接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配\n\n21\n00:07:44,494 --> 00:08:10,811\n有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們國管中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制就是這部分我想提醒你\n\n22\n00:08:12,606 --> 00:08:35,948\n這個沒問題我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上\n\n23\n00:08:36,829 --> 00:09:05,894\n主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作\n\n24\n00:09:06,964 --> 00:09:23,630\n國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊\n\n25\n00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:51,200\n國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊\n\n26\n00:09:53,217 --> 00:10:10,466\n不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業\n\n27\n00:10:11,346 --> 00:10:35,935\n所以你的意思是說在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用沒有錯好那目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青交城陽明交大等頂階學校請問國科會是否統計過中南部的\n\n28\n00:10:37,136 --> 00:10:40,969\n這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例\n\n29\n00:10:43,495 --> 00:11:10,253\n我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在這個研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做這個前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作需要仰賴這個研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才所以包含這個\n\n30\n00:11:13,435 --> 00:11:32,069\n所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所?全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持?對好那台中唯利啦勤益科大台中科大嶺東都沒問題洪光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請朝陽對對亞洲\n\n31\n00:11:34,711 --> 00:11:53,387\n這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎\n\n32\n00:11:54,048 --> 00:12:23,373\n好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要提計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動\n\n33\n00:12:24,139 --> 00:12:46,257\n是是是因為這個學術自由我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會他們可以來申請提醒他們其實好好可以提醒我們都是公開的我知道我知道但有時候公開畢竟網路上你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有我們也都會發函到各校好所以你確定你會發函\n\n34\n00:12:47,097 --> 00:13:05,007\n全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔好不好那目前部分的Tide跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委\n\n35\n00:13:10,872 --> 00:13:39,391\n課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正\n\n36\n00:13:40,451 --> 00:14:03,537\n這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那我那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只還要衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎\n\n37\n00:14:05,725 --> 00:14:29,918\n這一部分是各部會要負擔,但是我可以請...那各部會有沒有追蹤?可以幫忙是未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤。好,趙偉不要一直看我,再給我一分鐘,拜託再給我一點時間,壓力很大。但我要講的就是,連我們畢業了,學校都會打電話問我們,我們的職場追蹤,那你的未來去向。\n\n38\n00:14:30,748 --> 00:14:47,669\n那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來了解一下你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤回歸資訊給你們那你們才可以了解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同\n\n39\n00:14:48,547 --> 00:15:07,559\n我認同我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷授訓就業研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的\n\n40\n00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:29,846\n地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是地方中小企業在地產學對接機制\n\n41\n00:15:30,846 --> 00:15:57,439\n國科會有產協合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道謝謝委員\n\n42\n00:16:01,432 --> 00:16:02,305\n好謝謝羅廷惟\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t23450\t之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員質詢好謝謝主席有請我們吳主委有請吳主委被質詢謝謝羅委員好好主委好主委最近我們台灣人來瘋\n25646\t51147\t那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了\n52108\t56438\t我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎\n64980\t92032\t也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個\n93872\t115823\t這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有 一定會簽約的好 那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個Tide AI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起\n117473\t131992\t我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會\n135441\t161509\t政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵\n162389\t178711\t我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方\n180015\t198610\t是給少數人用還是開放學界產業可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡\n200829\t228728\t揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來大躍進\n230229\t258468\t那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是 這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好 根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖\n260323\t286176\t我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個\n290429\t304798\t現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的這個算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄\n305919\t322414\t可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的\n322694\t341304\t所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是 這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊\n341784\t364906\t所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分謝謝羅委員 這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊 甚至還有衛福部 國防部啊都會用到 他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點\n366187\t387749\t不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,林哥你認同嗎?謝謝羅委員,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的Tide AI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產\n388830\t416581\t但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援TIDE的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視TIDE而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給TIDE II TIDE MEET尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面\n418068\t440055\t對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。\n441275\t463753\t接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配\n464494\t490811\t有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們國管中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制就是這部分我想提醒你\n492606\t515948\t這個沒問題我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上\n516829\t545894\t主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作\n546964\t563630\t國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊\n565110\t591200\t國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊\n593217\t610466\t不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業\n611346\t635935\t所以你的意思是說在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣 就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用 沒有錯好 那目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青 交城 陽明 交大等頂階學校請問國科會是否統計過中南部的\n637136\t640969\t這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例\n643495\t670253\t我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在這個研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做這個前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作需要仰賴這個研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才所以包含這個\n673435\t692069\t所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所?全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持?對好 那台中唯利啦 勤益科大 台中科大 嶺東都沒問題洪光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請 朝陽 對對亞洲\n694711\t713387\t這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎\n714048\t743373\t好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要提計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動\n744139\t766257\t是是是 因為這個學術自由 我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫 或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會 他們可以來申請 提醒他們其實好好 可以提醒 我們都是公開的我知道我知道 但有時候公開 畢竟網路上 你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有 我們也都會發函到各校好 所以你確定你會發函\n767097\t785007\t全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔 好不好那目前部分的Tide跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委\n790872\t819391\t課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部 勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有 多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正\n820451\t843537\t這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那我那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只還要衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎\n845725\t869918\t這一部分是各部會要負擔,但是我可以請...那各部會有沒有追蹤?可以幫忙是未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤。好,趙偉不要一直看我,再給我一分鐘,拜託再給我一點時間,壓力很大。但我要講的就是,連我們畢業了,學校都會打電話問我們,我們的職場追蹤,那你的未來去向。\n870748\t887669\t那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來了解一下 你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤 回歸資訊給你們那你們才可以了解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同\n888547\t907559\t我認同我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷授訓就業研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的\n907759\t929846\t地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是 地方中小企業在地產學對接機制\n930846\t957439\t國科會有產協合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道謝謝委員\n961432\t962305\t好 謝謝羅廷惟\n","txt":"之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員質詢好謝謝主席有請我們吳主委有請吳主委被質詢謝謝羅委員好好主委好主委最近我們台灣人來瘋\n那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了\n我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎\n也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個\n這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有 一定會簽約的好 那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個Tide AI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起\n我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會\n政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵\n我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方\n是給少數人用還是開放學界產業可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡\n揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來大躍進\n那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是 這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好 根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖\n我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個\n現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的這個算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄\n可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的\n所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是 這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊\n所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分謝謝羅委員 這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊 甚至還有衛福部 國防部啊都會用到 他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點\n不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,林哥你認同嗎?謝謝羅委員,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的Tide AI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產\n但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援TIDE的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視TIDE而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給TIDE II TIDE MEET尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面\n對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。\n接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配\n有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們國管中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制就是這部分我想提醒你\n這個沒問題我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上\n主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作\n國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊\n國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊\n不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業\n所以你的意思是說在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣 就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用 沒有錯好 那目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青 交城 陽明 交大等頂階學校請問國科會是否統計過中南部的\n這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例\n我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在這個研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做這個前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作需要仰賴這個研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才所以包含這個\n所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所?全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持?對好 那台中唯利啦 勤益科大 台中科大 嶺東都沒問題洪光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請 朝陽 對對亞洲\n這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎\n好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要提計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動\n是是是 因為這個學術自由 我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫 或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會 他們可以來申請 提醒他們其實好好 可以提醒 我們都是公開的我知道我知道 但有時候公開 畢竟網路上 你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有 我們也都會發函到各校好 所以你確定你會發函\n全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔 好不好那目前部分的Tide跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委\n課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部 勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有 多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正\n這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那我那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只還要衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎\n這一部分是各部會要負擔,但是我可以請...那各部會有沒有追蹤?可以幫忙是未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤。好,趙偉不要一直看我,再給我一分鐘,拜託再給我一點時間,壓力很大。但我要講的就是,連我們畢業了,學校都會打電話問我們,我們的職場追蹤,那你的未來去向。\n那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來了解一下 你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤 回歸資訊給你們那你們才可以了解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同\n我認同我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷授訓就業研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的\n地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是 地方中小企業在地產學對接機制\n國科會有產協合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道謝謝委員\n好 謝謝羅廷惟\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:23.450\n之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員質詢好謝謝主席有請我們吳主委有請吳主委被質詢謝謝羅委員好好主委好主委最近我們台灣人來瘋\n\n00:25.646 --> 00:51.147\n那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了\n\n00:52.108 --> 00:56.438\n我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎\n\n01:04.980 --> 01:32.032\n也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個\n\n01:33.872 --> 01:55.823\n這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有一定會簽約的好那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個TideAI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起\n\n01:57.473 --> 02:11.992\n我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會\n\n02:15.441 --> 02:41.509\n政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵\n\n02:42.389 --> 02:58.711\n我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方\n\n03:00.015 --> 03:18.610\n是給少數人用還是開放學界產業可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡\n\n03:20.829 --> 03:48.728\n揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來大躍進\n\n03:50.229 --> 04:18.468\n那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖\n\n04:20.323 --> 04:46.176\n我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個\n\n04:50.429 --> 05:04.798\n現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的這個算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄\n\n05:05.919 --> 05:22.414\n可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的\n\n05:22.694 --> 05:41.304\n所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊\n\n05:41.784 --> 06:04.906\n所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分謝謝羅委員這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊甚至還有衛福部國防部啊都會用到他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點\n\n06:06.187 --> 06:27.749\n不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,林哥你認同嗎?謝謝羅委員,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的TideAI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產\n\n06:28.830 --> 06:56.581\n但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援TIDE的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視TIDE而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給TIDEIITIDEMEET尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面\n\n06:58.068 --> 07:20.055\n對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。\n\n07:21.275 --> 07:43.753\n接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配\n\n07:44.494 --> 08:10.811\n有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們國管中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制就是這部分我想提醒你\n\n08:12.606 --> 08:35.948\n這個沒問題我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上\n\n08:36.829 --> 09:05.894\n主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作\n\n09:06.964 --> 09:23.630\n國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊\n\n09:25.110 --> 09:51.200\n國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊\n\n09:53.217 --> 10:10.466\n不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業\n\n10:11.346 --> 10:35.935\n所以你的意思是說在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用沒有錯好那目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青交城陽明交大等頂階學校請問國科會是否統計過中南部的\n\n10:37.136 --> 10:40.969\n這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例\n\n10:43.495 --> 11:10.253\n我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在這個研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做這個前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作需要仰賴這個研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才所以包含這個\n\n11:13.435 --> 11:32.069\n所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所?全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持?對好那台中唯利啦勤益科大台中科大嶺東都沒問題洪光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請朝陽對對亞洲\n\n11:34.711 --> 11:53.387\n這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎\n\n11:54.048 --> 12:23.373\n好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要提計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動\n\n12:24.139 --> 12:46.257\n是是是因為這個學術自由我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會他們可以來申請提醒他們其實好好可以提醒我們都是公開的我知道我知道但有時候公開畢竟網路上你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有我們也都會發函到各校好所以你確定你會發函\n\n12:47.097 --> 13:05.007\n全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔好不好那目前部分的Tide跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委\n\n13:10.872 --> 13:39.391\n課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正\n\n13:40.451 --> 14:03.537\n這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那我那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只還要衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎\n\n14:05.725 --> 14:29.918\n這一部分是各部會要負擔,但是我可以請...那各部會有沒有追蹤?可以幫忙是未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤。好,趙偉不要一直看我,再給我一分鐘,拜託再給我一點時間,壓力很大。但我要講的就是,連我們畢業了,學校都會打電話問我們,我們的職場追蹤,那你的未來去向。\n\n14:30.748 --> 14:47.669\n那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來了解一下你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤回歸資訊給你們那你們才可以了解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同\n\n14:48.547 --> 15:07.559\n我認同我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷授訓就業研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的\n\n15:07.759 --> 15:29.846\n地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是地方中小企業在地產學對接機制\n\n15:30.846 --> 15:57.439\n國科會有產協合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道謝謝委員\n\n16:01.432 --> 16:02.305\n好謝謝羅廷惟\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":23.45,"text":"之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員質詢好謝謝主席有請我們吳主委有請吳主委被質詢謝謝羅委員好好主委好主委最近我們台灣人來瘋"},{"start":25.646,"end":51.147,"text":"那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了"},{"start":52.108,"end":56.438,"text":"我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎"},{"start":64.98,"end":92.032,"text":"也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個"},{"start":93.872,"end":115.823,"text":"這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有 一定會簽約的好 那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個Tide AI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起"},{"start":117.473,"end":131.992,"text":"我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會"},{"start":135.441,"end":161.509,"text":"政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵"},{"start":162.389,"end":178.711,"text":"我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方"},{"start":180.015,"end":198.61,"text":"是給少數人用還是開放學界產業可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡"},{"start":200.829,"end":228.728,"text":"揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來大躍進"},{"start":230.229,"end":258.468,"text":"那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是 這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好 根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖"},{"start":260.323,"end":286.176,"text":"我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個"},{"start":290.429,"end":304.798,"text":"現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的這個算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄"},{"start":305.919,"end":322.414,"text":"可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的"},{"start":322.694,"end":341.304,"text":"所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是 這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊"},{"start":341.784,"end":364.906,"text":"所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分謝謝羅委員 這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊 甚至還有衛福部 國防部啊都會用到 他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點"},{"start":366.187,"end":387.749,"text":"不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,林哥你認同嗎?謝謝羅委員,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的Tide AI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產"},{"start":388.83,"end":416.581,"text":"但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援TIDE的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視TIDE而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給TIDE II TIDE MEET尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面"},{"start":418.068,"end":440.055,"text":"對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。"},{"start":441.275,"end":463.753,"text":"接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配"},{"start":464.494,"end":490.811,"text":"有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們國管中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制就是這部分我想提醒你"},{"start":492.606,"end":515.948,"text":"這個沒問題我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上"},{"start":516.829,"end":545.894,"text":"主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作"},{"start":546.964,"end":563.63,"text":"國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊"},{"start":565.11,"end":591.2,"text":"國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊"},{"start":593.217,"end":610.466,"text":"不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業"},{"start":611.346,"end":635.935,"text":"所以你的意思是說在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣 就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用 沒有錯好 那目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青 交城 陽明 交大等頂階學校請問國科會是否統計過中南部的"},{"start":637.136,"end":640.969,"text":"這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例"},{"start":643.495,"end":670.253,"text":"我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在這個研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做這個前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作需要仰賴這個研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才所以包含這個"},{"start":673.435,"end":692.069,"text":"所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所?全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持?對好 那台中唯利啦 勤益科大 台中科大 嶺東都沒問題洪光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請 朝陽 對對亞洲"},{"start":694.711,"end":713.387,"text":"這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎"},{"start":714.048,"end":743.373,"text":"好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要提計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動"},{"start":744.139,"end":766.257,"text":"是是是 因為這個學術自由 我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫 或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會 他們可以來申請 提醒他們其實好好 可以提醒 我們都是公開的我知道我知道 但有時候公開 畢竟網路上 你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有 我們也都會發函到各校好 所以你確定你會發函"},{"start":767.097,"end":785.007,"text":"全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔 好不好那目前部分的Tide跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委"},{"start":790.872,"end":819.391,"text":"課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部 勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有 多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正"},{"start":820.451,"end":843.537,"text":"這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那我那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只還要衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎"},{"start":845.725,"end":869.918,"text":"這一部分是各部會要負擔,但是我可以請...那各部會有沒有追蹤?可以幫忙是未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤。好,趙偉不要一直看我,再給我一分鐘,拜託再給我一點時間,壓力很大。但我要講的就是,連我們畢業了,學校都會打電話問我們,我們的職場追蹤,那你的未來去向。"},{"start":870.748,"end":887.669,"text":"那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來了解一下 你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤 回歸資訊給你們那你們才可以了解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同"},{"start":888.547,"end":907.559,"text":"我認同我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷授訓就業研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的"},{"start":907.759,"end":929.846,"text":"地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是 地方中小企業在地產學對接機制"},{"start":930.846,"end":957.439,"text":"國科會有產協合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道謝謝委員"},{"start":961.432,"end":962.305,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷惟"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":506,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時20分）謝謝主席，有請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委備質詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委好。主委，最近我們臺灣「仁來瘋」，怎麼說「仁來瘋」？那就是黃仁勳！黃仁勳回臺演講，還宣布輝達要在北士科設海外總部，全臺都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟臺灣合作，他也講得很清楚，會和台積電、鴻海以及國科會一起打造臺灣的第一臺AI電腦。我想請問主委，目前這個合作的進度如何？談到哪裡了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們只是有初步的討論過，依照他們發布這樣的訊息，後續細節還沒有談，後續會……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你是屬於被動嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：也不算啦，大家一起動啦！"],["羅委員廷瑋：大家一起動，你認為國科會在這個部分是負責主導、投資還是技術協調？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會代表我們政府，也包含經濟部跟數發部，將來會跟產業界一起合作，因為我們要發展算力，光靠政府的資源是不夠的，將來的產業發展一定需要產業的投入，而且投入的幅度會比政府還要大很多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：會不會要先談一些合作意向書或是備忘錄的部分？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個在後續我們開始進行細部合作規劃的時候一定會有，未來一定會簽約的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。因為臺灣在這個部分有一個TAIDE、AI雲，這些計畫可不可以整合在一起？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分，包含我們自主的AI模型的規劃、研究、設計及應用的部分，這個現在從國科會、政府這邊的團隊開始，我們擴散到學界、產業界，有多個計畫會在今年開始啟動，未來就不會只限定是TAIDE，現在新的AI模型設計方法已經有大幅度的進步，一直在進步當中，但不能只靠政府，所以這一部分，我們從國網中心開始建立平臺，鼓勵包含中央研究院在內的各個大學，還有產業界都進來做這個研究。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你說還有產業界……"],["吳主任委員誠文：還有產業界。"],["羅委員廷瑋：後面我要講是國網中心的16PF算力超級電腦已經建置好了，南科沙崙也有資料中心準備啟用，這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方？是給少數人用，還是開放學界、產業界可以申請？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們所有的資料中心，不管坐落在哪裡，都是全國學界在使用，有部分我們也跟產業界合作，把我們學界的研究成果應用落地到民間。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以會放在哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：輝達已經宣布了，跟鴻海合作的是在高雄。"],["羅委員廷瑋：高雄？好，我想還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：剛剛有問你會不會納入像TAIDE語言模型、醫療AI、國防應用，我想方式很多種，很多可以參考，但是我們希望能夠趁這個機會，各方的系統，不管是醫療AI、國防應用，都能夠藉此機會透過輝達來大躍進，這個部分也希望一定要儘可能的將臺灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，這個方向的確是我們在進行的，沒有錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。根據國科會在行政院的報告，到2029年政府希望能建置完成480PF的公共AI算力，加上民間建置的算力，總算力要超過1,200PF。這個目標很大，但是我想問的是，這次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在正在修正AI算力建置的規劃，所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話，會遠大於我們原來的規劃，因為原來規劃是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：超過1200？"],["吳主任委員誠文：原來的規劃是只有政府的部分，而且現在在算力的建置，因為AI的比重越來越高了，所以現在的算力部分，我們評估算力的單位，基本上，從今年開始業界已經改變了，是用耗電量、耗能的算法，所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的，未來在高雄，可能還會擴散到其他地方，是分三期，總共會有100MW，第一期是20MW，可能今年就會開始啟動，未來還有還有兩個階段，都是各40MW，這是他們宣布的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們看到這三期的計畫很龐大啦，但是在整個政府的部分，國科會應該要負責協調，像是其他經濟部、教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源，國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，這個沒問題，我們的確也正在協調當中。"],["羅委員廷瑋：因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，因為……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝羅委員，這個我們責無旁貸，我們國網中心也的確跟民間業者積極在進行臺灣算力聯盟的工作。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對啊，甚至還有衛福部、國防部啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：都會用到，他們都會用到。"],["羅委員廷瑋：剛剛講的醫療AI嘛，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，他們都用到。"],["羅委員廷瑋：國防部的一個運用嘛！所以我說國科會在這個部分上是占有一個非常重要的關鍵點，不只是銜接我們民間的資源，更是要幫忙協助政府，要做跨部會的協助，這部分我想予以重任，您可以認同嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝羅委員，我們會做這個事。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。接下來我要講的就是，現階段我們看到過去國科會推動的TAIDE、AI雲、繁中的語言模型，都是我們在AI領域的重要資產，但是未來輝達的合作案，就像我剛剛一直在提到的，會不會也幫忙支援TAIDE的訓練工作？當然，我不是只重視TAIDE而已，就像你說的，還有其他的可能性，但是我們有沒有預算，留一些資源給TAIDE-2、TAIDE MED，尤其這些模型可能需要政府資源、要訓練，有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的產業，我想這都是我們應該要列入探討的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，將來如果是學界也在發展，業界也在發展，我們希望能夠透過產學的合作，讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的開發能夠進步的更快，的確是按照委員所講的方向在進行，這是沒有問題的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。接下來要講的是國科會要發展更多的AI雲，也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI。之前我們就一直在講，我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業需要的會不會無法銜接或者是不接地氣，這個都是我們要注意的，但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制，未來算力要怎麼申請？公開分配有沒有辦法？有沒有建立資源的管理平臺？像是提供申請紀錄、成果、追蹤，確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益，這部分你怎麼看？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這部分當然我們一定要做，就是說，將來我們不管是支援學界、支援業界，我們都需要有一個公平、公開的作法，我們國網中心將來……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出這些相關的機制嘛，這個部分是我想提醒你的，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個沒問題，我們國網中心正在發展這個平臺，成熟的時候，大概今年下半年會公布這個作法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，對於這一項合作，我要做最後的一個提醒，不只是硬體的建置，更關係到未來我們臺灣的AI主導權，我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷，資料還能夠掌握在臺灣手上。主委，針對你說的主權AI，我覺得資料主權、技術回饋、在地人才的培育，國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計，這部分你有準備嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個已經準備了，我們講主權AI，目的就是要自己建置我們的算力，包含政府跟民間都要建置，把我們寶貴的資料留在臺灣，這是一個很重要的工作。"],["羅委員廷瑋：國科會這幾年推動跨領域的人才培育、AI雲的運用、人才的推升，以及TAIDE應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫，但從架構來看，與教育部的高教深耕產學攜手合作計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊。主委，國科會是否能與教育部建立常設的協調機制，釐清資源分配的訓練職能，盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象，以提升整體的效益？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們有常設的溝通機制，的確是有的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你有沒有發現這些有重複的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有重複，我跟委員報告，教育部……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是高度重疊，他們一定要一樣、百分之百重疊，但是主政的範圍不一樣，我們需要學校的人力，將來要進到產業界、進到社會去發揮……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然它是延續的嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百工百業運用……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你的意思是說，在同一條軌道上……"],["吳主任委員誠文：要同一條軌道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是是不一樣的層級。"],["吳主任委員誠文：不一樣，就是好像交棒一樣。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可能是在校園內的人才培育，然後到產業界的一個銜接。"],["吳主任委員誠文：就馬上可以運用，沒有錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。目前我們看到這些國科會主導的計畫，合作對象仍大多數集中在臺、清、交、成、陽明交大等頂尖學校，請問國科會是否統計過中南部的院校或是技職體系的學校實質參與的比例？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，的確我接任以後這是一個重點。在研究型的大學，我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做前瞻研究，幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等，這些研究工作需要仰賴研究型的大學。但是其他的大學，我們要培養的人才是要做各式各樣的應用，能夠對社會上所有不同領域的AI需求，我們都要培養人才，所以包含技職體系還有私立大學，現在國科會都在支持……"],["羅委員廷瑋：是。所以中南部的技職體系跟大學，你有參考哪幾所？可以跟我們講嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：全部的大學，只要願意做的，我們現在都支持。"],["羅委員廷瑋：都支持？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。以臺中為例，勤益科大、臺中科大、嶺東、弘光、朝陽、亞洲……"],["吳主任委員誠文：都沒問題，我們都歡迎這些學校來申請。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這部分，我希望說以臺中的部分，能夠幫我們多關心，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，沒問題，我們全國都會關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然你說的是全部，全部都沒關係，哪怕是興大或者是其他的學校，都沒關係，我是希望幫我們中南部的多照顧一下。"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，這些學校提計畫，我們現在都會非常的歡迎。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。那以相關的機電整合智慧製造的專業，這些校院區是否被納入培育基地，或者是共學實驗場域，這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎？還是你們有計畫，可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用聯盟，可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個只要提計畫執行單位願意組成這個聯盟，我們其實都樂觀其成。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以在這個部分，還是需要他們主動？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，因為要尊重學術自由，我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫，或者至少行個文，告訴他們有這個機會，提醒他們可以來申請？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，可以提醒，我們都是公開的，而且……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道、我知道，但有時候公開在網路上，畢竟你的網站不一定每個人都會看嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有、沒有，我們也都會發函到各校。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以你確定你會發函？"],["吳主任委員誠文：全部每個學校都會收到。"],["羅委員廷瑋：要提醒你喔，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：目前部分TAIDE跟AI雲的課程，開始導入業界資源，但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導，請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職能導向的架構，由產業協會、龍頭企業參與整個設計的機制？主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：課程的部分應該是教育部、經濟部、勞動部都有，這幾個部會其實都有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對啦，多聽聽產業界的聲音啦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我剛剛就講了嘛，就是讓產業協會、龍頭企業參與設計，能夠將整個課綱或是教學的課程設計得更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡……"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，這個部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然我們沒有說一定要只聽某一方，但是我覺得整個計畫應該要滾動式修正，這個部分你可以認同嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個我認同，那我……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你可以幫忙一下嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我知道，因為我也會協調各部會，就是包含……其實還不止，還有衛福部啦！勞動部、經濟部……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們希望在培育成效方面，國科會可以建立一個具體的追蹤制度，目前你有掌握結訓學員一年、三年後的工作去向跟留臺比例嗎？你有追蹤嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這一部分是各部會要負擔，但是我可以……"],["羅委員廷瑋：各部會有沒有追蹤，有沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們科技辦公室未來可以把相關的人才培育計畫提醒各部會要去追蹤。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。召委，不要一直看我，再給我1分鐘，拜託再給我一點時間，壓力很大。","但我要講的就是，連我們畢業了，學校都會打電話問我們，追蹤我們的職場和未來的去向，國科會對於這些學員的培育成效，是不是應該要好好的追蹤、了解一下……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會提醒……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你要提醒各部會幫忙追蹤，回饋資訊給你們，那你們才可以了解整個設計上是不是需要有所變革，是不是需要再滾動式修正。你可不可以認同？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。我認同，我們會提醒各部會。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你要去修正嘛，好不好？人才培育不是訓練完就結案了，建立整個縱向的人才資料庫，結合學歷、受訓、就業、研究資訊，追蹤確保這些人力是否能夠投入國家科技的發展主軸，這是我們需要去研究的。地方中小企業反映，他們很難參與國科會的大型計畫，國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制，了解企業需求的人才以後，也幫忙媒合協助這樣的培訓資源，這是我最後要提的……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，地方中小企業的確……"],["羅委員廷瑋：在地產學對接機制。"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會有產學合作計畫，但是地方中小企業也有經濟部在輔助的計畫……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道你有這些計畫，但是能不能構接中小企業更多廣泛的應用，然後幫他們協助對接，這是我們要探討的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，我現在正在做這個事，所以我也邀請……"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，希望你加大力度。"],["吳主任委員誠文：邀請經濟部中小企業署進來了……"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，希望你加大力度。"],["吳主任委員誠文：商業發展署也進來了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們看到同樣一個方向，但我們希望有具體成效讓我們知道，好不好？拜託一下。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員的質詢，官員請回座。","接下來我們有請陳秀寳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-14","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","吳沛憶","萬美玲","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","張雅琳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","葉元之","范雲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算解凍案22案","agenda_id":"1145601_00001"}}}