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\"end\": 416.471, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 416.471, \"end\": 416.631, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 416.631, \"end\": 416.932, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 416.932, \"end\": 417.132, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 417.132, \"end\": 417.152, \"score\": 0.088}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,898 --> 00:00:29,219\n辛苦齁有請邱主委好請邱主委議員好趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走容我提醒他齁剛剛的主張其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起在阻擋民進黨提的國安法案到這週一共422次你們聽到\n\n2\n00:00:35,640 --> 00:01:00,768\n對不起有點激動其實立法委員的職責職權其實在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面其實在每一個禮拜的程序委員會他民眾黨都可以表達剛剛他們認為事前報備事後報備等等的主張讓程序委員會通過之後順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議來討論到底\n\n3\n00:01:03,473 --> 00:01:24,481\n這幾個條例裡面包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理以及立法委員行違法他對這個敵對勢力有意見他對敵對勢力的定義就是說隔壁有一個國家\n\n4\n00:01:25,049 --> 00:01:53,160\n每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空在你的領空周圍這樣繞來繞去甚至派軍艦甚至派他們的海警在我們的這個不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖甚至台海這些領域裡面這樣繞來繞去他不認為這是敵對勢力我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論他說因為敵對勢力所以有意見要退回\n\n5\n00:01:53,960 --> 00:02:18,678\n我們在這邊今天其實感謝張路昭委安排這個議程就是針對這幾個國安法令來提出來那我想針對這幾個法令目前提出來的包含第九條如果這個沒有修我請問一下陸委會我們知道現在每週或者是每個月有多少退降\n\n6\n00:02:19,514 --> 00:02:27,979\n他其實是領著退休金在中國自住行自由旅行我們有辦法統計嗎\n\n7\n00:02:30,507 --> 00:02:49,787\n因為他們是如果說以退休的退降基本上是一般國民賦入不需要跟政府來因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間他就可以自由進出中國大陸\n\n8\n00:02:50,647 --> 00:03:12,576\n對那所以今天包含這個第九條第三跟第九條之三還有第二項的修法裡面就是我們希望把它規範到如果它在它當然是沒有報備嘛但它如果它配合大陸地區具有統戰目的的行為的政治宣傳行為這個我們其實就要規範它也就是說\n\n9\n00:03:15,270 --> 00:03:41,130\n如果你還是領著退休金嘛那你還是去中國旅遊嘛但是你有參加他的活動這個活動你當到退休將領了你當然知道這個是要統戰喔那你被拍出來就是做樣板喔那你能不能參加這個活動如果你參加這個活動在那邊聽訊聽著習大大的聽訊或者甚至跟他們唱他們的國歌等等的這一些我們是不是應該要規範\n\n10\n00:03:42,375 --> 00:04:06,489\n是當然所以我們支持委員的提案那包括這些特定的指標性人物不管是退將還是過去處理國安相關的這些退離職人員他們賦錄他們的言行更會影響這個兩岸的視聽如果是附和或是\n\n11\n00:04:07,870 --> 00:04:36,130\n完全講中國大陸對台的統戰的話的話當然會影響我們民心士氣所以這個地方的強化規管這個立法方針跟政策方向我們是支持的對所以我們要透過這個立法讓有一些人他其實他可能習慣長期習慣真的是在中國旅遊啊那在中國旅遊裡面比如說我10天到底有幾天是接受他們的哪一些單位\n\n12\n00:04:37,659 --> 00:05:02,876\n落地接待甚至有什麼餐飲食宿的招待甚至有更多的這些高規格的這些接待的我們要不要規範我們要啊這個我們可以去這個他原來服務的機關跟他們做這方面的勸導不過我們法律是針對一些特定行為比如說我們現行的法律對於這些退將去參加中國大陸黨政軍所舉辦的各種的\n\n13\n00:05:07,159 --> 00:05:23,906\n典禮對於他的旗揮歌行李唱誦那有這個行為我們就會採取依法來處分對嘛你至少避一下嘛身為中華民國的退役將領這些退役將領的定義我們再把它更清楚一點\n\n14\n00:05:25,006 --> 00:05:39,226\n包含承認國防外交大陸事務以及國家安全相關機關國家安全相關機關其實也包含貴單位陸委會那可能也包含調查局算不算\n\n15\n00:05:40,374 --> 00:05:55,195\n未來都會被納入是的算這些我這樣講其實都是中共高度想要滲透台灣國安相關單位的一些重要的這些單位而這一些退役人士\n\n16\n00:05:55,915 --> 00:06:24,201\n對於這些中共的這些人的價值就是他們了解台灣的國安情治系統如何運作如同我們的立法委員了解台灣的民主憲政如何維持也是中共很想要滲透的目標所以我們也支持立法委員赴中赴港必須要深最少不是法律而已最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國見了誰你安排什麼行程合理吧\n\n17\n00:06:24,915 --> 00:06:54,307\n是委員剛剛說什麼這個電話局局長是不是所有的情報機關的首長包括現行法律是這樣那我們也支持把這些第九條之三的範圍把它擴大適用人更多以來確保他們的這個相關的行為符合國人的期待中共每天都在想著怎麼滲透啦所以我們法律要明定清楚來保護我們所有國人的安全\n\n18\n00:06:54,928 --> 00:06:57,152\n是,我們也是朝這個方向來修法\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4898\t29219\t辛苦齁 有請邱主委好 請邱主委議員好趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走 容我提醒他齁剛剛的主張其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起在阻擋民進黨提的國安法案到這週一共422次你們聽到\n35640\t60768\t對不起有點激動其實立法委員的職責職權其實在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面其實在每一個禮拜的程序委員會他民眾黨都可以表達剛剛他們認為事前報備事後報備等等的主張讓程序委員會通過之後順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議來討論到底\n63473\t84481\t這幾個條例裡面包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理以及立法委員行違法他對這個敵對勢力有意見他對敵對勢力的定義就是說隔壁有一個國家\n85049\t113160\t每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空在你的領空周圍這樣繞來繞去甚至派軍艦甚至派他們的海警在我們的這個不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖甚至台海這些領域裡面這樣繞來繞去他不認為這是敵對勢力我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論他說因為敵對勢力所以有意見要退回\n113960\t138678\t我們在這邊今天其實感謝張路昭委安排這個議程就是針對這幾個國安法令來提出來那我想針對這幾個法令目前提出來的包含第九條如果這個沒有修我請問一下陸委會我們知道現在每週或者是每個月有多少退降\n139514\t147979\t他其實是領著退休金在中國自住行自由旅行我們有辦法統計嗎\n150507\t169787\t因為他們是如果說以退休的退降基本上是一般國民賦入不需要跟政府來因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間他就可以自由進出中國大陸\n170647\t192576\t對 那所以今天包含這個第九條第三跟第九條之三還有第二項的修法裡面就是我們希望把它規範到如果它在它當然是沒有報備嘛但它如果它配合大陸地區具有統戰目的的行為的政治宣傳行為這個我們其實就要規範它也就是說\n195270\t221130\t如果你還是領著退休金嘛那你還是去中國旅遊嘛但是你有參加他的活動這個活動你當到退休將領了你當然知道這個是要統戰喔那你被拍出來就是做樣板喔那你能不能參加這個活動如果你參加這個活動在那邊聽訊聽著習大大的聽訊或者甚至跟他們唱他們的國歌等等的這一些我們是不是應該要規範\n222375\t246489\t是當然所以我們支持委員的提案那包括這些特定的指標性人物不管是退將還是過去處理國安相關的這些退離職人員他們賦錄他們的言行更會影響這個兩岸的視聽如果是附和或是\n247870\t276130\t完全講中國大陸對台的統戰的話的話當然會影響我們民心士氣所以這個地方的強化規管這個立法方針跟政策方向我們是支持的對所以我們要透過這個立法讓有一些人他其實他可能習慣長期習慣真的是在中國旅遊啊那在中國旅遊裡面比如說我10天到底有幾天是接受他們的哪一些單位\n277659\t302876\t落地接待甚至有什麼餐飲食宿的招待甚至有更多的這些高規格的這些接待的我們要不要規範我們要啊這個我們可以去這個他原來服務的機關跟他們做這方面的勸導不過我們法律是針對一些特定行為比如說我們現行的法律對於這些退將去參加中國大陸黨政軍所舉辦的各種的\n307159\t323906\t典禮對於他的旗揮歌行李唱誦那有這個行為我們就會採取依法來處分對嘛你至少避一下嘛身為中華民國的退役將領這些退役將領的定義我們再把它更清楚一點\n325006\t339226\t包含承認國防外交大陸事務以及國家安全相關機關國家安全相關機關其實也包含貴單位陸委會那可能也包含調查局算不算\n340374\t355195\t未來都會被納入是的 算這些我這樣講其實都是中共高度想要滲透台灣國安相關單位的一些重要的這些單位而這一些退役人士\n355915\t384201\t對於這些中共的這些人的價值就是他們了解台灣的國安情治系統如何運作如同我們的立法委員了解台灣的民主憲政如何維持也是中共很想要滲透的目標所以我們也支持立法委員赴中赴港必須要深最少不是法律而已最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國見了誰你安排什麼行程合理吧\n384915\t414307\t是委員剛剛說什麼這個電話局局長是不是所有的情報機關的首長包括現行法律是這樣那我們也支持把這些第九條之三的範圍把它擴大適用人更多以來確保他們的這個相關的行為符合國人的期待中共每天都在想著怎麼滲透啦所以我們法律要明定清楚來保護我們所有國人的安全\n414928\t417152\t是,我們也是朝這個方向來修法\n","txt":"辛苦齁 有請邱主委好 請邱主委議員好趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走 容我提醒他齁剛剛的主張其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起在阻擋民進黨提的國安法案到這週一共422次你們聽到\n對不起有點激動其實立法委員的職責職權其實在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面其實在每一個禮拜的程序委員會他民眾黨都可以表達剛剛他們認為事前報備事後報備等等的主張讓程序委員會通過之後順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議來討論到底\n這幾個條例裡面包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理以及立法委員行違法他對這個敵對勢力有意見他對敵對勢力的定義就是說隔壁有一個國家\n每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空在你的領空周圍這樣繞來繞去甚至派軍艦甚至派他們的海警在我們的這個不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖甚至台海這些領域裡面這樣繞來繞去他不認為這是敵對勢力我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論他說因為敵對勢力所以有意見要退回\n我們在這邊今天其實感謝張路昭委安排這個議程就是針對這幾個國安法令來提出來那我想針對這幾個法令目前提出來的包含第九條如果這個沒有修我請問一下陸委會我們知道現在每週或者是每個月有多少退降\n他其實是領著退休金在中國自住行自由旅行我們有辦法統計嗎\n因為他們是如果說以退休的退降基本上是一般國民賦入不需要跟政府來因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間他就可以自由進出中國大陸\n對 那所以今天包含這個第九條第三跟第九條之三還有第二項的修法裡面就是我們希望把它規範到如果它在它當然是沒有報備嘛但它如果它配合大陸地區具有統戰目的的行為的政治宣傳行為這個我們其實就要規範它也就是說\n如果你還是領著退休金嘛那你還是去中國旅遊嘛但是你有參加他的活動這個活動你當到退休將領了你當然知道這個是要統戰喔那你被拍出來就是做樣板喔那你能不能參加這個活動如果你參加這個活動在那邊聽訊聽著習大大的聽訊或者甚至跟他們唱他們的國歌等等的這一些我們是不是應該要規範\n是當然所以我們支持委員的提案那包括這些特定的指標性人物不管是退將還是過去處理國安相關的這些退離職人員他們賦錄他們的言行更會影響這個兩岸的視聽如果是附和或是\n完全講中國大陸對台的統戰的話的話當然會影響我們民心士氣所以這個地方的強化規管這個立法方針跟政策方向我們是支持的對所以我們要透過這個立法讓有一些人他其實他可能習慣長期習慣真的是在中國旅遊啊那在中國旅遊裡面比如說我10天到底有幾天是接受他們的哪一些單位\n落地接待甚至有什麼餐飲食宿的招待甚至有更多的這些高規格的這些接待的我們要不要規範我們要啊這個我們可以去這個他原來服務的機關跟他們做這方面的勸導不過我們法律是針對一些特定行為比如說我們現行的法律對於這些退將去參加中國大陸黨政軍所舉辦的各種的\n典禮對於他的旗揮歌行李唱誦那有這個行為我們就會採取依法來處分對嘛你至少避一下嘛身為中華民國的退役將領這些退役將領的定義我們再把它更清楚一點\n包含承認國防外交大陸事務以及國家安全相關機關國家安全相關機關其實也包含貴單位陸委會那可能也包含調查局算不算\n未來都會被納入是的 算這些我這樣講其實都是中共高度想要滲透台灣國安相關單位的一些重要的這些單位而這一些退役人士\n對於這些中共的這些人的價值就是他們了解台灣的國安情治系統如何運作如同我們的立法委員了解台灣的民主憲政如何維持也是中共很想要滲透的目標所以我們也支持立法委員赴中赴港必須要深最少不是法律而已最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國見了誰你安排什麼行程合理吧\n是委員剛剛說什麼這個電話局局長是不是所有的情報機關的首長包括現行法律是這樣那我們也支持把這些第九條之三的範圍把它擴大適用人更多以來確保他們的這個相關的行為符合國人的期待中共每天都在想著怎麼滲透啦所以我們法律要明定清楚來保護我們所有國人的安全\n是,我們也是朝這個方向來修法\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.898 --> 00:29.219\n辛苦齁有請邱主委好請邱主委議員好趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走容我提醒他齁剛剛的主張其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起在阻擋民進黨提的國安法案到這週一共422次你們聽到\n\n00:35.640 --> 01:00.768\n對不起有點激動其實立法委員的職責職權其實在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面其實在每一個禮拜的程序委員會他民眾黨都可以表達剛剛他們認為事前報備事後報備等等的主張讓程序委員會通過之後順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議來討論到底\n\n01:03.473 --> 01:24.481\n這幾個條例裡面包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理以及立法委員行違法他對這個敵對勢力有意見他對敵對勢力的定義就是說隔壁有一個國家\n\n01:25.049 --> 01:53.160\n每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空在你的領空周圍這樣繞來繞去甚至派軍艦甚至派他們的海警在我們的這個不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖甚至台海這些領域裡面這樣繞來繞去他不認為這是敵對勢力我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論他說因為敵對勢力所以有意見要退回\n\n01:53.960 --> 02:18.678\n我們在這邊今天其實感謝張路昭委安排這個議程就是針對這幾個國安法令來提出來那我想針對這幾個法令目前提出來的包含第九條如果這個沒有修我請問一下陸委會我們知道現在每週或者是每個月有多少退降\n\n02:19.514 --> 02:27.979\n他其實是領著退休金在中國自住行自由旅行我們有辦法統計嗎\n\n02:30.507 --> 02:49.787\n因為他們是如果說以退休的退降基本上是一般國民賦入不需要跟政府來因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間他就可以自由進出中國大陸\n\n02:50.647 --> 03:12.576\n對那所以今天包含這個第九條第三跟第九條之三還有第二項的修法裡面就是我們希望把它規範到如果它在它當然是沒有報備嘛但它如果它配合大陸地區具有統戰目的的行為的政治宣傳行為這個我們其實就要規範它也就是說\n\n03:15.270 --> 03:41.130\n如果你還是領著退休金嘛那你還是去中國旅遊嘛但是你有參加他的活動這個活動你當到退休將領了你當然知道這個是要統戰喔那你被拍出來就是做樣板喔那你能不能參加這個活動如果你參加這個活動在那邊聽訊聽著習大大的聽訊或者甚至跟他們唱他們的國歌等等的這一些我們是不是應該要規範\n\n03:42.375 --> 04:06.489\n是當然所以我們支持委員的提案那包括這些特定的指標性人物不管是退將還是過去處理國安相關的這些退離職人員他們賦錄他們的言行更會影響這個兩岸的視聽如果是附和或是\n\n04:07.870 --> 04:36.130\n完全講中國大陸對台的統戰的話的話當然會影響我們民心士氣所以這個地方的強化規管這個立法方針跟政策方向我們是支持的對所以我們要透過這個立法讓有一些人他其實他可能習慣長期習慣真的是在中國旅遊啊那在中國旅遊裡面比如說我10天到底有幾天是接受他們的哪一些單位\n\n04:37.659 --> 05:02.876\n落地接待甚至有什麼餐飲食宿的招待甚至有更多的這些高規格的這些接待的我們要不要規範我們要啊這個我們可以去這個他原來服務的機關跟他們做這方面的勸導不過我們法律是針對一些特定行為比如說我們現行的法律對於這些退將去參加中國大陸黨政軍所舉辦的各種的\n\n05:07.159 --> 05:23.906\n典禮對於他的旗揮歌行李唱誦那有這個行為我們就會採取依法來處分對嘛你至少避一下嘛身為中華民國的退役將領這些退役將領的定義我們再把它更清楚一點\n\n05:25.006 --> 05:39.226\n包含承認國防外交大陸事務以及國家安全相關機關國家安全相關機關其實也包含貴單位陸委會那可能也包含調查局算不算\n\n05:40.374 --> 05:55.195\n未來都會被納入是的算這些我這樣講其實都是中共高度想要滲透台灣國安相關單位的一些重要的這些單位而這一些退役人士\n\n05:55.915 --> 06:24.201\n對於這些中共的這些人的價值就是他們了解台灣的國安情治系統如何運作如同我們的立法委員了解台灣的民主憲政如何維持也是中共很想要滲透的目標所以我們也支持立法委員赴中赴港必須要深最少不是法律而已最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國見了誰你安排什麼行程合理吧\n\n06:24.915 --> 06:54.307\n是委員剛剛說什麼這個電話局局長是不是所有的情報機關的首長包括現行法律是這樣那我們也支持把這些第九條之三的範圍把它擴大適用人更多以來確保他們的這個相關的行為符合國人的期待中共每天都在想著怎麼滲透啦所以我們法律要明定清楚來保護我們所有國人的安全\n\n06:54.928 --> 06:57.152\n是,我們也是朝這個方向來修法\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.898,"end":29.219,"text":"辛苦齁 有請邱主委好 請邱主委議員好趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走 容我提醒他齁剛剛的主張其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起在阻擋民進黨提的國安法案到這週一共422次你們聽到"},{"start":35.64,"end":60.768,"text":"對不起有點激動其實立法委員的職責職權其實在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面其實在每一個禮拜的程序委員會他民眾黨都可以表達剛剛他們認為事前報備事後報備等等的主張讓程序委員會通過之後順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議來討論到底"},{"start":63.473,"end":84.481,"text":"這幾個條例裡面包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理以及立法委員行違法他對這個敵對勢力有意見他對敵對勢力的定義就是說隔壁有一個國家"},{"start":85.049,"end":113.16,"text":"每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空在你的領空周圍這樣繞來繞去甚至派軍艦甚至派他們的海警在我們的這個不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖甚至台海這些領域裡面這樣繞來繞去他不認為這是敵對勢力我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論他說因為敵對勢力所以有意見要退回"},{"start":113.96,"end":138.678,"text":"我們在這邊今天其實感謝張路昭委安排這個議程就是針對這幾個國安法令來提出來那我想針對這幾個法令目前提出來的包含第九條如果這個沒有修我請問一下陸委會我們知道現在每週或者是每個月有多少退降"},{"start":139.514,"end":147.979,"text":"他其實是領著退休金在中國自住行自由旅行我們有辦法統計嗎"},{"start":150.507,"end":169.787,"text":"因為他們是如果說以退休的退降基本上是一般國民賦入不需要跟政府來因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間他就可以自由進出中國大陸"},{"start":170.647,"end":192.576,"text":"對 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算這些我這樣講其實都是中共高度想要滲透台灣國安相關單位的一些重要的這些單位而這一些退役人士"},{"start":355.915,"end":384.201,"text":"對於這些中共的這些人的價值就是他們了解台灣的國安情治系統如何運作如同我們的立法委員了解台灣的民主憲政如何維持也是中共很想要滲透的目標所以我們也支持立法委員赴中赴港必須要深最少不是法律而已最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國見了誰你安排什麼行程合理吧"},{"start":384.915,"end":414.307,"text":"是委員剛剛說什麼這個電話局局長是不是所有的情報機關的首長包括現行法律是這樣那我們也支持把這些第九條之三的範圍把它擴大適用人更多以來確保他們的這個相關的行為符合國人的期待中共每天都在想著怎麼滲透啦所以我們法律要明定清楚來保護我們所有國人的安全"},{"start":414.928,"end":417.152,"text":"是,我們也是朝這個方向來修法"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":236,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（9時43分）辛苦了，有請邱主委。"],["主席：好，請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：李委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：趁民眾黨麥玉珍委員還沒走，容我提醒他，剛剛的主張，其實台灣民眾黨在程序委員會的時候可以不用跟著國民黨一起阻擋民進黨提的國安法案，到這週一共422次！有沒有聽到？","對不起，我有點激動。其實立法委員的職權在他剛剛所唸的主張裡面，在每一個禮拜的程序委員會，台灣民眾黨都可以表達，剛剛他們認為事前報備、事後報備等等的主張，讓程序委員會通過之後，順利進到立法院的議事程序來審議、來討論。這幾個條例裡面，包含兩岸人民關係條例強化特定人士赴中申報管理、港澳條例強化特定人士赴港申報管理，以及立法委員行為法，他對這個「敵對勢力」有意見啦！他對敵對勢力的定義就是隔壁有一個國家，每天派幾十架軍機飛越你的領空，在你的領空周圍繞來繞去，甚至派軍艦、派海警，在我們不管是澎湖、金門、馬祖，甚至臺海這些領域裡面繞來繞去，他不認為這是敵對勢力，我覺得這個可以在立法院裡面討論啊，結果說因為敵對勢力，所以有意見，要退回！","我們今天其實要在這邊感謝張宏陸召委安排這個議程，就是針對這幾個國安法令提出來進行審查。目前提出來的這幾個修正草案，包含兩岸人民關係條例第九條如果沒有修，我請問一下陸委會，現在每週或者是每個月有多少退將領著退休金，在中國自助行、自由旅行，我們有辦法統計嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果是已退休的退將，基本上是一般國民赴陸，不需要跟政府……因為他如果已經過了退職期的審核期間，就可以自由進出中國大陸。"],["李委員柏毅：所以今天包含兩岸人民關係條例第九條之三第二項的修法，就是我們希望把他規範到，如果他在……他當然是沒有報備嘛！但是如果他有配合大陸地區具有統戰目的之政治宣傳行為，這個我們其實就要規範他。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員柏毅：也就是說，如果你領著退休金去中國旅遊，但是你有參加他們的活動，身為退休將領，你當然知道這個是要統戰，當你被拍出來，就是做樣板，那你能不能參加這個活動？如果你參加這個活動，在那邊聽訓，聽習大大訓話，甚至唱他們的國歌等等，這些是不是應該要規範？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，當然。所以我們支持委員的提案，包括特定的指標性人物，不管是退將，還是過去處理國安事務的相關退離職人員，他們赴陸的言行更會影響兩岸視聽，如果附和或是完全講中國大陸對臺統戰的話，當然會影響我們的民心士氣，所以這個地方強化規管的立法方針和政策方向我們是支持的。"],["李委員柏毅：所以我們要透過立法，讓一些可能長期習慣在中國旅遊的人，比如說我10天裡面到底有幾天是接受他們哪些單位的落地接待、餐飲食宿的招待，甚至有更多高規格的接待，這些我們要不要規範？我們要啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個我們可以去他原來服務的機關，跟他們做這方面的勸導。不過，我們的法律是針對特定行為，比如說我們現行法律對於這些退將去參加中國大陸黨政軍所舉辦的各種典禮，對於他們的旗、徽、歌行禮、唱頌，有這個行為，我們就會依法處分。"],["李委員柏毅：對嘛！至少避一下嘛！身為中華民國的退役將領，退役將領的定義我們要讓它再更清楚一點。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員柏毅：包含曾任國防、外交、大陸事務以及國家安全相關機關，國家安全相關機關其實也包含貴單位陸委會。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員柏毅：調查局算不算？"],["邱主任委員垂正：未來都會被納入。是的，算。"],["李委員柏毅：我講的這些其實都是中共高度想要滲透的臺灣國安重要相關單位，而這些退役人士對中共這些人的價值就是他們瞭解臺灣的國安情治系統如何運作，如同我們的立法委員瞭解臺灣的民主憲政如何維持，也是中共很想要滲透的目標，所以我們也支持立法委員赴中、赴港必須要申報……"],["邱主任委員垂正：剛剛委員說的……"],["李委員柏毅：不是法律而已，最少要讓你的選民知道你去了中國、見了誰、安排什麼行程，合理吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，委員剛才說調查局局長是不是，所有的情報機關首長都包括，現行法律就是這樣。我們也支持把第九條之三的範圍擴大、適用的人更多，以確保他們的相關行為符合國人的期待。"],["李委員柏毅：中共每天都在想著要怎麼滲透啦！所以我們法律要明定清楚，以保護我們所有國人的安全。謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們也朝這個方向來修法。謝謝委員。"],["主席：請張智倫委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-23","speakers":["張宏陸","沈伯洋","林楚茵","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","李柏毅","張智倫","王美惠","黃捷","高金素梅","許宇甄","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":381,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條及第九十一條條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之三條\n文修正草案」案；三、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之\n三、第九條之四及第九十一條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林楚茵等20人擬具「臺灣地區與\n大陸地區人民關係條例第九十條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「香港澳門\n關係條例第十條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「香港澳門關係條例第十四\n條、第十四條之一及第四十七條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145501_00015"}}}