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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 504.856, \"end\": 505.057, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 505.057, \"end\": 505.519, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 505.519, \"end\": 505.921, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.921, \"end\": 506.142, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 506.142, \"end\": 506.302, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 506.302, \"end\": 506.463, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 506.463, \"end\": 506.644, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 506.644, \"end\": 506.664, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,055 --> 00:00:35,615\n謝謝主席有請我們的邱主委好請主委邱經緯也好今年的3月13號賴清德總統他宣布說中國是境外敵對勢力之後的這兩個月當中呢國安法的修法被提出來了那今天呢港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了\n\n2\n00:00:36,805 --> 00:01:02,075\n從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名然後把法條徵修的越來越嚴罰款越來越高管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬看來呢民進黨你們是要把14億人口的中國都定義成\n\n3\n00:01:02,816 --> 00:01:16,445\n境外敵對勢力而並不是為了對付敵人而是為了那個把我們的政治思考和民進黨政府不同的台灣人民變成敵人\n\n4\n00:01:17,888 --> 00:01:42,970\n變成通敵的中共同路人那麼今天呢我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法行政院和上一次我們還在這邊審的國安法的時候他一直都沒有提出版本耶既然周主委你說這是賴總統他的指示你們行政院是不是應該有版本啊請問一下陸委會有沒有版本\n\n5\n00:01:44,049 --> 00:02:06,975\n跟委員報告有關於落實17項的因應策略修法也是一個我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本都是立法委員的版本請你回答我們是跟委員報告我們現在還在整個作業當中所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉會\n\n6\n00:02:07,975 --> 00:02:27,653\n我們會提出兩岸條例的版本好那麼你對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本你有什麼看法我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制目的還是希望能夠守護我們在台灣自由民主的生活方式\n\n7\n00:02:28,835 --> 00:02:49,012\n那有关于他们提出这些其实跟我们的立场态度是为了这个减少在受到因为跟中国大陆交流所引发这个统战渗透分化的影响我以为你是国安局你是陆委会好了既然你这么讲那我就请问你\n\n8\n00:02:49,812 --> 00:03:11,324\n這次有關兩岸人民關係條例的修法版本裡面邱志偉委員的版本他修了第九條的第十項他在台灣地區人民進入大陸地區者不得從事妨害國家安全或利益的活動的這個條文後面增加了亦不得配合複合大陸地區的黨務軍事行政或具政治性機構團體而\n\n9\n00:03:14,506 --> 00:03:34,302\n發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢我才疏學淺請問一下你能不能具體的告訴大家到底是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:35,806 --> 00:03:48,989\n我想韋瑩的目的,她還是在避免中共利用我們台灣沒有,我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序比如說消滅中華民國主權這個已經是在法條裡面了嘛我知道,比如說在消滅中華民國主權\n\n11\n00:03:56,771 --> 00:04:14,457\n光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國了嗎中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信那麼脆弱呢我們看一下鼓吹武統台灣鼓吹用武力的方式來侵略台灣像這些嘴巴講就可以啊來看一下蔡英文總統她之前也是陸委會的主委\n\n12\n00:04:23,205 --> 00:04:43,161\n2000年8月4號他說陸委會主委蔡英文表示台灣無法逃避一個中國的問題從文化地理來看未來的一個中國是台灣民眾唯一的選擇蔡英文表示一個中國是我們必須面對的問題台灣沒有空間跟可能性去逃避一個中國的問題\n\n13\n00:04:44,782 --> 00:04:56,472\n陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議。若中國大陸覺得九二年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的,我們願意朝這個方向來解釋或考慮。他說,被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的。\n\n14\n00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:12,565\n如果交流對話是成功的話外在的客觀環境會改變一個中國的問題的解決就相對變得簡單蔡英文認為無論是統一、台獨或維持現狀台灣人民只有一個選擇那就是未來的一個中國\n\n15\n00:05:28,098 --> 00:05:55,069\n他指出台灣除了少數原住民之外就是我啦大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人雖然台灣是一個開放性的多元文化但中國文化仍然是核心這是當時的陸委會主委也是我們前總統蔡英文她說的\n\n16\n00:05:55,669 --> 00:06:21,338\n然後我們再來看一下你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢你們除了在法條上規範之外呢你還要罰款如果這些人講了這些話你要處台幣一萬五千塊以上五萬元以下然後要按次處罰我要再請問一下主委這個第九條第十項提到的台灣地區人民指的是台灣地區的所有人民對吧是的好照你說立法委員是嗎\n\n17\n00:06:26,049 --> 00:06:51,399\n是你們漏洩前天梁副主委不是說嗎樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢立法可以這麼抽象的我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好我要再講的是這樣的法條一旦修出來從此之後\n\n18\n00:06:54,580 --> 00:07:03,486\n台灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗一旦政府認為有問題呢我們的人民只要一下飛機到了我們的台灣就要等著收罰單是不是我看啊孫主委你也別講太多了我時間到了\n\n19\n00:07:17,156 --> 00:07:19,318\n與其把台灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳不如乾脆停止ECFA然後呢全面的斷行什麼立法委員啊民間人士的交流也不必了啦台灣那就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上我們再一起談\n\n20\n00:07:41,038 --> 00:07:51,748\n我認為很奇怪了你們你們既要享受ECFA的好處然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的台商和人民然後把大家認為人心房我還沒向你說話\n\n21\n00:07:55,424 --> 00:08:12,897\n你們這段時間的做法還不恐嚇人民啊弄得大家人心惶惶的這樣你們很開心了是不是你們民進黨啊真的是一代不如一代我記得以前徐新娘前輩也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過大膽西進越馬中原這樣的大氣魄已經不見了而現在的民進黨只剩下什麼只剩下會欺負台灣人民啊民進黨你們真是墮落\n\n22\n00:08:24,675 --> 00:08:26,664\n這不是事實委員我們不接受這樣的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9055\t35615\t謝謝主席有請我們的邱主委好 請主委邱經緯也好今年的3月13號賴清德總統他宣布說中國是境外敵對勢力之後的這兩個月當中呢國安法的修法被提出來了那今天呢港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了\n36805\t62075\t從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名然後把法條徵修的越來越嚴罰款越來越高管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬看來呢民進黨你們是要把14億人口的中國都定義成\n62816\t76445\t境外敵對勢力而並不是為了對付敵人而是為了那個把我們的政治思考和民進黨政府不同的台灣人民變成敵人\n77888\t102970\t變成通敵的中共同路人那麼今天呢我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法行政院和上一次我們還在這邊審的國安法的時候他一直都沒有提出版本耶既然周主委你說這是賴總統他的指示你們行政院是不是應該有版本啊請問一下陸委會有沒有版本\n104049\t126975\t跟委員報告有關於落實17項的因應策略修法也是一個我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本都是立法委員的版本請你回答我們是跟委員報告我們現在還在整個作業當中所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉會\n127975\t147653\t我們會提出兩岸條例的版本好 那麼你對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本你有什麼看法我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制目的還是希望能夠守護我們在台灣自由民主的生活方式\n148835\t169012\t那有关于他们提出这些其实跟我们的立场态度是为了这个减少在受到因为跟中国大陆交流所引发这个统战渗透分化的影响我以为你是国安局你是陆委会好了既然你这么讲那我就请问你\n169812\t191324\t這次有關兩岸人民關係條例的修法版本裡面 邱志偉委員的版本他修了第九條的第十項他在台灣地區人民進入大陸地區者不得從事妨害國家安全或利益的活動的這個條文後面增加了亦不得配合 複合大陸地區的黨務 軍事 行政或具政治性機構 團體 而\n194506\t214302\t發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢我才疏學淺請問一下你能不能具體的告訴大家到底是什麼\n215806\t228989\t我想韋瑩的目的,她還是在避免中共利用我們台灣沒有,我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序比如說消滅中華民國主權這個已經是在法條裡面了嘛我知道,比如說在消滅中華民國主權\n236771\t254457\t光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國了嗎中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信那麼脆弱呢我們看一下鼓吹武統台灣鼓吹用武力的方式來侵略台灣像這些嘴巴講就可以啊來看一下蔡英文總統她之前也是陸委會的主委\n263205\t283161\t2000年8月4號他說陸委會主委蔡英文表示台灣無法逃避一個中國的問題從文化地理來看未來的一個中國是台灣民眾唯一的選擇蔡英文表示一個中國是我們必須面對的問題台灣沒有空間跟可能性去逃避一個中國的問題\n284782\t296472\t陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議。若中國大陸覺得九二年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的,我們願意朝這個方向來解釋或考慮。他說,被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的。\n307040\t312565\t如果交流對話是成功的話外在的客觀環境會改變一個中國的問題的解決就相對變得簡單蔡英文認為無論是統一、台獨或維持現狀台灣人民只有一個選擇那就是未來的一個中國\n328098\t355069\t他指出 台灣除了少數原住民之外 就是我啦大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人雖然台灣是一個開放性的多元文化但中國文化仍然是核心這是當時的陸委會主委也是我們前總統蔡英文她說的\n355669\t381338\t然後我們再來看一下你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢你們除了在法條上規範之外呢你還要罰款如果這些人講了這些話你要處台幣一萬五千塊以上五萬元以下然後要按次處罰我要再請問一下主委這個第九條第十項提到的台灣地區人民指的是台灣地區的所有人民對吧是的好 照你說立法委員 是嗎\n386049\t411399\t是你們漏洩前天梁副主委不是說嗎樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢立法可以這麼抽象的我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好我要再講的是這樣的法條一旦修出來從此之後\n414580\t423486\t台灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗一旦政府認為有問題呢 我們的人民只要一下飛機到了我們的台灣 就要等著收罰單 是不是我看啊 孫主委你也別講太多了 我時間到了\n437156\t439318\t與其把台灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳 不如乾脆停止ECFA然後呢 全面的斷行什麼立法委員啊 民間人士的交流也不必了啦台灣那就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上 我們再一起談\n461038\t471748\t我認為很奇怪了你們你們既要享受ECFA的好處然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的台商和人民然後把大家認為人心房我還沒向你說話\n475424\t492897\t你們這段時間的做法還不恐嚇人民啊弄得大家人心惶惶的這樣你們很開心了是不是你們民進黨啊真的是一代不如一代我記得以前徐新娘前輩也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過大膽西進 越馬中原這樣的大氣魄已經不見了而現在的民進黨只剩下什麼只剩下會欺負台灣人民啊民進黨你們真是墮落\n504675\t506664\t這不是事實委員我們不接受這樣的\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請我們的邱主委好 請主委邱經緯也好今年的3月13號賴清德總統他宣布說中國是境外敵對勢力之後的這兩個月當中呢國安法的修法被提出來了那今天呢港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了\n從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名然後把法條徵修的越來越嚴罰款越來越高管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬看來呢民進黨你們是要把14億人口的中國都定義成\n境外敵對勢力而並不是為了對付敵人而是為了那個把我們的政治思考和民進黨政府不同的台灣人民變成敵人\n變成通敵的中共同路人那麼今天呢我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法行政院和上一次我們還在這邊審的國安法的時候他一直都沒有提出版本耶既然周主委你說這是賴總統他的指示你們行政院是不是應該有版本啊請問一下陸委會有沒有版本\n跟委員報告有關於落實17項的因應策略修法也是一個我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本都是立法委員的版本請你回答我們是跟委員報告我們現在還在整個作業當中所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉會\n我們會提出兩岸條例的版本好 那麼你對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本你有什麼看法我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制目的還是希望能夠守護我們在台灣自由民主的生活方式\n那有关于他们提出这些其实跟我们的立场态度是为了这个减少在受到因为跟中国大陆交流所引发这个统战渗透分化的影响我以为你是国安局你是陆委会好了既然你这么讲那我就请问你\n這次有關兩岸人民關係條例的修法版本裡面 邱志偉委員的版本他修了第九條的第十項他在台灣地區人民進入大陸地區者不得從事妨害國家安全或利益的活動的這個條文後面增加了亦不得配合 複合大陸地區的黨務 軍事 行政或具政治性機構 團體 而\n發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢我才疏學淺請問一下你能不能具體的告訴大家到底是什麼\n我想韋瑩的目的,她還是在避免中共利用我們台灣沒有,我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序比如說消滅中華民國主權這個已經是在法條裡面了嘛我知道,比如說在消滅中華民國主權\n光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國了嗎中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信那麼脆弱呢我們看一下鼓吹武統台灣鼓吹用武力的方式來侵略台灣像這些嘴巴講就可以啊來看一下蔡英文總統她之前也是陸委會的主委\n2000年8月4號他說陸委會主委蔡英文表示台灣無法逃避一個中國的問題從文化地理來看未來的一個中國是台灣民眾唯一的選擇蔡英文表示一個中國是我們必須面對的問題台灣沒有空間跟可能性去逃避一個中國的問題\n陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議。若中國大陸覺得九二年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的,我們願意朝這個方向來解釋或考慮。他說,被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的。\n如果交流對話是成功的話外在的客觀環境會改變一個中國的問題的解決就相對變得簡單蔡英文認為無論是統一、台獨或維持現狀台灣人民只有一個選擇那就是未來的一個中國\n他指出 台灣除了少數原住民之外 就是我啦大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人雖然台灣是一個開放性的多元文化但中國文化仍然是核心這是當時的陸委會主委也是我們前總統蔡英文她說的\n然後我們再來看一下你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢你們除了在法條上規範之外呢你還要罰款如果這些人講了這些話你要處台幣一萬五千塊以上五萬元以下然後要按次處罰我要再請問一下主委這個第九條第十項提到的台灣地區人民指的是台灣地區的所有人民對吧是的好 照你說立法委員 是嗎\n是你們漏洩前天梁副主委不是說嗎樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢立法可以這麼抽象的我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好我要再講的是這樣的法條一旦修出來從此之後\n台灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗一旦政府認為有問題呢 我們的人民只要一下飛機到了我們的台灣 就要等著收罰單 是不是我看啊 孫主委你也別講太多了 我時間到了\n與其把台灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳 不如乾脆停止ECFA然後呢 全面的斷行什麼立法委員啊 民間人士的交流也不必了啦台灣那就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上 我們再一起談\n我認為很奇怪了你們你們既要享受ECFA的好處然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的台商和人民然後把大家認為人心房我還沒向你說話\n你們這段時間的做法還不恐嚇人民啊弄得大家人心惶惶的這樣你們很開心了是不是你們民進黨啊真的是一代不如一代我記得以前徐新娘前輩也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過大膽西進 越馬中原這樣的大氣魄已經不見了而現在的民進黨只剩下什麼只剩下會欺負台灣人民啊民進黨你們真是墮落\n這不是事實委員我們不接受這樣的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.055 --> 00:35.615\n謝謝主席有請我們的邱主委好請主委邱經緯也好今年的3月13號賴清德總統他宣布說中國是境外敵對勢力之後的這兩個月當中呢國安法的修法被提出來了那今天呢港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了\n\n00:36.805 --> 01:02.075\n從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名然後把法條徵修的越來越嚴罰款越來越高管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬看來呢民進黨你們是要把14億人口的中國都定義成\n\n01:02.816 --> 01:16.445\n境外敵對勢力而並不是為了對付敵人而是為了那個把我們的政治思考和民進黨政府不同的台灣人民變成敵人\n\n01:17.888 --> 01:42.970\n變成通敵的中共同路人那麼今天呢我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法行政院和上一次我們還在這邊審的國安法的時候他一直都沒有提出版本耶既然周主委你說這是賴總統他的指示你們行政院是不是應該有版本啊請問一下陸委會有沒有版本\n\n01:44.049 --> 02:06.975\n跟委員報告有關於落實17項的因應策略修法也是一個我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本都是立法委員的版本請你回答我們是跟委員報告我們現在還在整個作業當中所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉會\n\n02:07.975 --> 02:27.653\n我們會提出兩岸條例的版本好那麼你對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本你有什麼看法我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制目的還是希望能夠守護我們在台灣自由民主的生活方式\n\n02:28.835 --> 02:49.012\n那有关于他们提出这些其实跟我们的立场态度是为了这个减少在受到因为跟中国大陆交流所引发这个统战渗透分化的影响我以为你是国安局你是陆委会好了既然你这么讲那我就请问你\n\n02:49.812 --> 03:11.324\n這次有關兩岸人民關係條例的修法版本裡面邱志偉委員的版本他修了第九條的第十項他在台灣地區人民進入大陸地區者不得從事妨害國家安全或利益的活動的這個條文後面增加了亦不得配合複合大陸地區的黨務軍事行政或具政治性機構團體而\n\n03:14.506 --> 03:34.302\n發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢我才疏學淺請問一下你能不能具體的告訴大家到底是什麼\n\n03:35.806 --> 03:48.989\n我想韋瑩的目的,她還是在避免中共利用我們台灣沒有,我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序比如說消滅中華民國主權這個已經是在法條裡面了嘛我知道,比如說在消滅中華民國主權\n\n03:56.771 --> 04:14.457\n光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國了嗎中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信那麼脆弱呢我們看一下鼓吹武統台灣鼓吹用武力的方式來侵略台灣像這些嘴巴講就可以啊來看一下蔡英文總統她之前也是陸委會的主委\n\n04:23.205 --> 04:43.161\n2000年8月4號他說陸委會主委蔡英文表示台灣無法逃避一個中國的問題從文化地理來看未來的一個中國是台灣民眾唯一的選擇蔡英文表示一個中國是我們必須面對的問題台灣沒有空間跟可能性去逃避一個中國的問題\n\n04:44.782 --> 04:56.472\n陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議。若中國大陸覺得九二年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的,我們願意朝這個方向來解釋或考慮。他說,被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的。\n\n05:07.040 --> 05:12.565\n如果交流對話是成功的話外在的客觀環境會改變一個中國的問題的解決就相對變得簡單蔡英文認為無論是統一、台獨或維持現狀台灣人民只有一個選擇那就是未來的一個中國\n\n05:28.098 --> 05:55.069\n他指出台灣除了少數原住民之外就是我啦大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人雖然台灣是一個開放性的多元文化但中國文化仍然是核心這是當時的陸委會主委也是我們前總統蔡英文她說的\n\n05:55.669 --> 06:21.338\n然後我們再來看一下你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢你們除了在法條上規範之外呢你還要罰款如果這些人講了這些話你要處台幣一萬五千塊以上五萬元以下然後要按次處罰我要再請問一下主委這個第九條第十項提到的台灣地區人民指的是台灣地區的所有人民對吧是的好照你說立法委員是嗎\n\n06:26.049 --> 06:51.399\n是你們漏洩前天梁副主委不是說嗎樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢立法可以這麼抽象的我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好我要再講的是這樣的法條一旦修出來從此之後\n\n06:54.580 --> 07:03.486\n台灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗一旦政府認為有問題呢我們的人民只要一下飛機到了我們的台灣就要等著收罰單是不是我看啊孫主委你也別講太多了我時間到了\n\n07:17.156 --> 07:19.318\n與其把台灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳不如乾脆停止ECFA然後呢全面的斷行什麼立法委員啊民間人士的交流也不必了啦台灣那就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上我們再一起談\n\n07:41.038 --> 07:51.748\n我認為很奇怪了你們你們既要享受ECFA的好處然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的台商和人民然後把大家認為人心房我還沒向你說話\n\n07:55.424 --> 08:12.897\n你們這段時間的做法還不恐嚇人民啊弄得大家人心惶惶的這樣你們很開心了是不是你們民進黨啊真的是一代不如一代我記得以前徐新娘前輩也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過大膽西進越馬中原這樣的大氣魄已經不見了而現在的民進黨只剩下什麼只剩下會欺負台灣人民啊民進黨你們真是墮落\n\n08:24.675 --> 08:26.664\n這不是事實委員我們不接受這樣的\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.055,"end":35.615,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們的邱主委好 請主委邱經緯也好今年的3月13號賴清德總統他宣布說中國是境外敵對勢力之後的這兩個月當中呢國安法的修法被提出來了那今天呢港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了"},{"start":36.805,"end":62.075,"text":"從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名然後把法條徵修的越來越嚴罰款越來越高管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬看來呢民進黨你們是要把14億人口的中國都定義成"},{"start":62.816,"end":76.445,"text":"境外敵對勢力而並不是為了對付敵人而是為了那個把我們的政治思考和民進黨政府不同的台灣人民變成敵人"},{"start":77.888,"end":102.97,"text":"變成通敵的中共同路人那麼今天呢我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法行政院和上一次我們還在這邊審的國安法的時候他一直都沒有提出版本耶既然周主委你說這是賴總統他的指示你們行政院是不是應該有版本啊請問一下陸委會有沒有版本"},{"start":104.049,"end":126.975,"text":"跟委員報告有關於落實17項的因應策略修法也是一個我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本都是立法委員的版本請你回答我們是跟委員報告我們現在還在整個作業當中所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉會"},{"start":127.975,"end":147.653,"text":"我們會提出兩岸條例的版本好 那麼你對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本你有什麼看法我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制目的還是希望能夠守護我們在台灣自由民主的生活方式"},{"start":148.835,"end":169.012,"text":"那有关于他们提出这些其实跟我们的立场态度是为了这个减少在受到因为跟中国大陆交流所引发这个统战渗透分化的影响我以为你是国安局你是陆委会好了既然你这么讲那我就请问你"},{"start":169.812,"end":191.324,"text":"這次有關兩岸人民關係條例的修法版本裡面 邱志偉委員的版本他修了第九條的第十項他在台灣地區人民進入大陸地區者不得從事妨害國家安全或利益的活動的這個條文後面增加了亦不得配合 複合大陸地區的黨務 軍事 行政或具政治性機構 團體 而"},{"start":194.506,"end":214.302,"text":"發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢我才疏學淺請問一下你能不能具體的告訴大家到底是什麼"},{"start":215.806,"end":228.989,"text":"我想韋瑩的目的,她還是在避免中共利用我們台灣沒有,我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序比如說消滅中華民國主權這個已經是在法條裡面了嘛我知道,比如說在消滅中華民國主權"},{"start":236.771,"end":254.457,"text":"光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國了嗎中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信那麼脆弱呢我們看一下鼓吹武統台灣鼓吹用武力的方式來侵略台灣像這些嘴巴講就可以啊來看一下蔡英文總統她之前也是陸委會的主委"},{"start":263.205,"end":283.161,"text":"2000年8月4號他說陸委會主委蔡英文表示台灣無法逃避一個中國的問題從文化地理來看未來的一個中國是台灣民眾唯一的選擇蔡英文表示一個中國是我們必須面對的問題台灣沒有空間跟可能性去逃避一個中國的問題"},{"start":284.782,"end":296.472,"text":"陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議。若中國大陸覺得九二年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的,我們願意朝這個方向來解釋或考慮。他說,被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的。"},{"start":307.04,"end":312.565,"text":"如果交流對話是成功的話外在的客觀環境會改變一個中國的問題的解決就相對變得簡單蔡英文認為無論是統一、台獨或維持現狀台灣人民只有一個選擇那就是未來的一個中國"},{"start":328.098,"end":355.069,"text":"他指出 台灣除了少數原住民之外 就是我啦大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人雖然台灣是一個開放性的多元文化但中國文化仍然是核心這是當時的陸委會主委也是我們前總統蔡英文她說的"},{"start":355.669,"end":381.338,"text":"然後我們再來看一下你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢你們除了在法條上規範之外呢你還要罰款如果這些人講了這些話你要處台幣一萬五千塊以上五萬元以下然後要按次處罰我要再請問一下主委這個第九條第十項提到的台灣地區人民指的是台灣地區的所有人民對吧是的好 照你說立法委員 是嗎"},{"start":386.049,"end":411.399,"text":"是你們漏洩前天梁副主委不是說嗎樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢立法可以這麼抽象的我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好我要再講的是這樣的法條一旦修出來從此之後"},{"start":414.58,"end":423.486,"text":"台灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗一旦政府認為有問題呢 我們的人民只要一下飛機到了我們的台灣 就要等著收罰單 是不是我看啊 孫主委你也別講太多了 我時間到了"},{"start":437.156,"end":439.318,"text":"與其把台灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳 不如乾脆停止ECFA然後呢 全面的斷行什麼立法委員啊 民間人士的交流也不必了啦台灣那就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上 我們再一起談"},{"start":461.038,"end":471.748,"text":"我認為很奇怪了你們你們既要享受ECFA的好處然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的台商和人民然後把大家認為人心房我還沒向你說話"},{"start":475.424,"end":492.897,"text":"你們這段時間的做法還不恐嚇人民啊弄得大家人心惶惶的這樣你們很開心了是不是你們民進黨啊真的是一代不如一代我記得以前徐新娘前輩也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過大膽西進 越馬中原這樣的大氣魄已經不見了而現在的民進黨只剩下什麼只剩下會欺負台灣人民啊民進黨你們真是墮落"},{"start":504.675,"end":506.664,"text":"這不是事實委員我們不接受這樣的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":345,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時14分）謝謝主席，有請邱主委。"],["主席：好，請主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：高金委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：今年的3月13號，賴清德總統宣布中國是境外敵對勢力，之後的這2個月當中，國安法的修法被提出來了，今天港澳關係條例還有兩岸人民關係條例的修法也提出來了。從民進黨立法委員們所提出來的修法版本裡面，我們可以看到一種以國家安全為名，然後把法條增修得越來越嚴、罰款越來越高，管制的人員還有範圍也越來越寬，看來民進黨是要把14億人口的中國都定義成境外敵對勢力。這並不是為了對付敵人，而是為了把政治思考和民進黨政府不同的臺灣人民變成敵人、變成通敵的中共同路人。今天我們在內政委員會裡面要討論修法，和上一次我們在這邊審國安法的時候一樣，行政院一直都沒有提出版本。既然邱主委說這是賴總統的指示，你們行政院是不是應該有版本？請問一下陸委會有沒有版本？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，有關於落實17項因應策略，修法也是我們強化法制作業重要的一個環節。"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼行政院跟相關部門一直都沒有版本，都是立法委員的版本？請你回答我為什麼。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，我們現在還在整個作業當中……"],["高金委員素梅：所以行政院跟你會提出版本囉？"],["邱主任委員垂正：會，我們會提出兩岸條例的版本。"],["高金委員素梅：好，對於現在民進黨立委所提出來的修法版本，你有什麼看法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想他們都是在強化民主防衛機制，目的還是希望能夠守護我們在臺灣自由民主的生活方式。有關於他們提出這些，其實我們的立場、態度是為了減少受到跟中國大陸交流所發統戰滲透、分化的影響。"],["高金委員素梅：我以為你是國安局，你是陸委會，好啦！既然你這麼講，我就請問你，這次有關兩岸人民關係條例修法版本裡面，邱志偉委員的版本修了第九條第十項，他在「臺灣地區人民進入大陸地區者，不得從事妨害國家安全或利益之活動」的後面增加了「亦不得配合、附和大陸地區黨務、軍事、行政或具政治性機關（構）、團體，而發表危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容」，這個危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序之內容到底是什麼呢？我才疏學淺，請問一下，你能不能具體地告訴大家到底是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，我想委員的目的還是在避免中共利用我們臺灣民眾……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，我說危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序……"],["邱主任委員垂正：比如說消滅中華民國主權……"],["高金委員素梅：這個已經在法條裡面了嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我知道，比如說在消滅中華民國主權……"],["高金委員素梅：好，光是發表這樣的講話就能夠危害中華民國嗎？中華民國什麼時候變得那麼沒有自信、那麼脆弱呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：比如說鼓吹武統臺灣……"],["高金委員素梅：我們看一下……"],["邱主任委員垂正：鼓吹用武力的方式侵略臺灣，像這些……"],["高金委員素梅：嘴巴講就可以啊？來看一下，蔡英文總統之前也是陸委會的主委，2000年8月4號，陸委會主委蔡英文表示，臺灣無法逃避一個中國的問題，從文化、地理來看，未來的一個中國是臺灣民眾唯一的選擇。蔡英文表示，一個中國是我們必須面對的問題，臺灣沒有空間跟可能性逃避一個中國的問題。陳水扁所提的九二精神最重要的特質就是交流、對話、擱置爭議，若中國大陸覺得92年所發生的事情對雙方的關係是重大而有意義的，我們願意朝這個方向解釋或考慮。他說被擱置的爭議總是有一天會被解決的，如果交流對話是成功的話，外在的客觀環境會改變，一個中國問題的解決就相對變得簡單。蔡英文認為，無論是統一、臺獨或維持現狀，臺灣人民只有一個選擇，就是未來的一個中國。他指出，臺灣除了少數原住民之外，就是我啦！大部分都是從中國大陸移民而來的，雖然現在在你們的口中這些人叫做其餘人，雖然臺灣是一個開放性的多元文化，但中國文化仍然是核心，這是當時的陸委會主委，也是我們前總統蔡英文說的。然後我們再來看一下，你們現在沒有自信到什麼程度呢？你們除了在法條上規範之外，你還要罰款，如果這些人講了這些話，你要處臺幣1萬5,000元以上、5萬元以下，然後要按次處罰。我要再請問一下主委，這個第九條第十項提到的臺灣地區人民，指的是臺灣地區的所有人民，對吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，照理說立法委員也是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["高金委員素梅：你們陸委會前天梁副主委不是說嗎？樂見立法委員和民間在兩岸之間交換意見啊！那要怎麼樣的兩岸交流才不會危害中華民國存在或變更自由民主憲政秩序呢？立法可以這麼抽象的啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：我希望你們提出來的立法不要那麼抽象好不好？我要再講的是，這樣的法條一旦修出來，從此之後，臺灣人民在大陸的一言一行都要被政府檢驗，連我們的思想都要被你們檢驗，一旦政府認為有問題，我們的人民只要一下飛機，到了我們的臺灣就要等著收罰單，是不是？我看主委也別想太多了，我時間到了。與其把臺灣搞得這麼風聲鶴唳，不如乾脆停止ECFA，然後全面斷航，什麼立法委員、民間人士的交流也不必了啦，臺灣就等著我們賴清德總統說的大公司跟小公司的併購會議上，我們再一起談。我認為你們很奇怪，你們既要享受ECFA的好處，然後又要恐嚇懲罰創造好處的臺商和人民，然後把大家弄得人心惶惶……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有恐嚇臺商跟……"],["高金委員素梅：我還沒叫你說話！你們這段時間的作法還不恐嚇人民啊？弄得大家人心惶惶，這樣你們很開心了是不是？你們民進黨真的是一代不如一代，我記得以前許信良前輩，也是以前民進黨的主席曾經說過「大膽西進，躍馬中原」，這麼樣的大氣魄已經不見了，現在的民進黨只剩下什麼？只剩下會欺負臺灣人民，民進黨真是墮落！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這不是事實，委員，我們不接受這樣的……"],["高金委員素梅：事實！"],["主席：謝謝。","我們請許宇甄委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-23","speakers":["張宏陸","沈伯洋","林楚茵","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","李柏毅","張智倫","王美惠","黃捷","高金素梅","許宇甄","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":381,"meetingDate":["2025-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條及第九十一條條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之三條\n文修正草案」案；三、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之\n三、第九條之四及第九十一條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林楚茵等20人擬具「臺灣地區與\n大陸地區人民關係條例第九十條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「香港澳門\n關係條例第十條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「香港澳門關係條例第十四\n條、第十四條之一及第四十七條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145501_00015"}}}