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836.056, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 836.056, \"end\": 836.316, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 836.316, \"end\": 836.477, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 836.477, \"end\": 836.657, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 836.657, \"end\": 836.817, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 836.817, \"end\": 836.917, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 836.917, \"end\": 836.937, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,328 --> 00:00:28,223\n主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好麻煩法務部長廉政署署長羅委員那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽不要讓我笑好請教一下這個\n\n2\n00:00:31,153 --> 00:00:52,841\n監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成UberE-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長\n\n3\n00:00:57,483 --> 00:01:17,481\n那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛對不對有然後請問一下那個先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎\n\n4\n00:01:18,609 --> 00:01:46,843\n我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當UberE-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛不可能嘛\n\n5\n00:01:48,427 --> 00:02:10,798\n我跟各位講剛剛不管是藍綠的委員白的委員都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容把公務車拿來當UberE我也當過我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候這也不可能發生的事情啊\n\n6\n00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:31,176\n那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長\n\n7\n00:02:33,206 --> 00:03:00,408\n我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎\n\n8\n00:03:02,646 --> 00:03:14,862\n這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果\n\n9\n00:03:17,918 --> 00:03:37,098\n那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車機車與友人參與後又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎\n\n10\n00:03:39,901 --> 00:04:07,466\n檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到\n\n11\n00:04:08,346 --> 00:04:12,589\n參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎\n\n12\n00:04:33,278 --> 00:04:49,307\n這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對\n\n13\n00:04:51,974 --> 00:05:19,650\n部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛對不對不會啦就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴壽宴私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛對不對但是\n\n14\n00:05:20,899 --> 00:05:26,563\n台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情然後判處20萬罰金再來2022年屏東縣警察局\n\n15\n00:05:35,696 --> 00:05:53,017\n莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎\n\n16\n00:05:55,851 --> 00:06:21,836\n市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝部長呢也是嘛不會嘛對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎\n\n17\n00:06:22,984 --> 00:06:50,426\n不會啦對不對不會嘛對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦\n\n18\n00:06:51,167 --> 00:07:08,802\n然後今年1月松山分局的張姓袁景開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎會不會也不會嘛也不會嘛對不對會嗎也不會嘛對不對\n\n19\n00:07:15,745 --> 00:07:37,602\n那可是呢這個行為就遭到台北地檢署依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪給予緩起訴處分需繳酷一萬元我跟你講這太多啦我講不完啦我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長跟我們的署長講確實我承認啦剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到\n\n20\n00:07:38,806 --> 00:08:03,161\n他有一些標準的問題好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車公務車當UberE大概在所有攤檔裡面這兩個我們禮具最扯欸沒錯吧\n\n21\n00:08:05,049 --> 00:08:30,760\n你去參敘齁你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊對不對那你參加婚宴壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊\n\n22\n00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:55,737\n委員報告目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長\n\n23\n00:08:57,162 --> 00:09:20,094\n不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質釐清活動的性質對不對\n\n24\n00:09:22,199 --> 00:09:49,758\n送狗送牠的愛犬去美容把車子公務車當UberE來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個\n\n25\n00:09:51,291 --> 00:10:15,895\n把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有那是民眾就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊所以大家就等著看啦\n\n26\n00:10:17,168 --> 00:10:44,930\n如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以責任就結束了嗎\n\n27\n00:10:47,886 --> 00:11:07,828\n它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊\n\n28\n00:11:08,803 --> 00:11:33,997\n不是跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑\n\n29\n00:11:34,980 --> 00:12:02,351\n那中央好像奇怪啦就沒事啦跟委員報告一下他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁\n\n30\n00:12:03,672 --> 00:12:26,630\n就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦\n\n31\n00:12:28,035 --> 00:12:52,276\n我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當UberEats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎\n\n32\n00:12:54,741 --> 00:13:13,847\n他是繞個路送個蛋糕去也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準說真的大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦檢查機關\n\n33\n00:13:16,818 --> 00:13:32,785\n不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了\n\n34\n00:13:41,548 --> 00:13:56,937\n這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8328\t28223\t主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好 麻煩法務部長 廉政署署長羅委員 那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽 不要讓我笑好 請教一下這個\n31153\t52841\t監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成Uber E-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長\n57483\t77481\t那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分 大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下 部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛 對不對有然後請問一下 那個 先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎\n78609\t106843\t我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當Uber E-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對 部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛 不可能嘛\n108427\t130798\t我跟各位講 剛剛不管是藍綠的委員 白的委員 都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容 把公務車拿來當Uber E我也當過 我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候 這也不可能發生的事情啊\n131940\t151176\t那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係 他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長\n153206\t180408\t我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎\n182646\t194862\t這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果\n197918\t217098\t那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車 機車與友人參與後 又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長 你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎\n219901\t247466\t檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到\n248346\t252589\t參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎\n273278\t289307\t這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對\n291974\t319650\t部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛 對不對不會啦 就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴 壽宴 私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛 對不對但是\n320899\t326563\t台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情 然後判處20萬罰金再來 2022年屏東縣警察局\n335696\t353017\t莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎\n355851\t381836\t市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝 部長呢也是嘛 不會嘛 對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎\n382984\t410426\t不會啦 對不對不會嘛 對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛 對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦\n411167\t428802\t然後今年1月 松山分局的張姓袁景 開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問 會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎 會不會 也不會嘛 也不會嘛 對不對 會嗎 也不會嘛 對不對\n435745\t457602\t那可是呢 這個行為就遭到台北地檢署 依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪 給予緩起訴處分 需繳酷一萬元我跟你講 這太多啦 我講不完啦 我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長 跟我們的署長講 確實我承認啦 剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到\n458806\t483161\t他有一些標準的問題 好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車 公務車當Uber E大概在所有攤檔裡面 這兩個我們禮具最扯欸 沒錯吧\n485049\t510760\t你去參敘齁 你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對那你參加婚宴 壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑 通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊\n512660\t535737\t委員報告 目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長\n537162\t560094\t不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊 所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質 釐清活動的性質 對不對\n562199\t589758\t送狗 送牠的愛犬去美容把車子 公務車當Uber E來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事 我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉 我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個\n591291\t615895\t把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛 廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有 那是民眾 就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊 所以大家就等著看啦\n617168\t644930\t如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事 沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對 我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以 責任就結束了嗎\n647886\t667828\t它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊\n668803\t693997\t不是 跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已 對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑\n694980\t722351\t那中央好像奇怪啦 就沒事啦跟委員報告一下 他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦 我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁\n723672\t746630\t就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦\n748035\t772276\t我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當Uber Eats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎\n774741\t793847\t他是繞個路送個蛋糕去 也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準 說真的 大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有 按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦 檢查機關\n796818\t812785\t不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了\n821548\t836937\t這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦 努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待 以上 謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好 麻煩法務部長 廉政署署長羅委員 那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽 不要讓我笑好 請教一下這個\n監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成Uber E-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長\n那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分 大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下 部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛 對不對有然後請問一下 那個 先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎\n我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當Uber E-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對 部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛 不可能嘛\n我跟各位講 剛剛不管是藍綠的委員 白的委員 都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容 把公務車拿來當Uber E我也當過 我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候 這也不可能發生的事情啊\n那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係 他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長\n我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎\n這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果\n那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車 機車與友人參與後 又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長 你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎\n檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到\n參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎\n這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對\n部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛 對不對不會啦 就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴 壽宴 私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛 對不對但是\n台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情 然後判處20萬罰金再來 2022年屏東縣警察局\n莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎\n市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝 部長呢也是嘛 不會嘛 對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎\n不會啦 對不對不會嘛 對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛 對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦\n然後今年1月 松山分局的張姓袁景 開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問 會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎 會不會 也不會嘛 也不會嘛 對不對 會嗎 也不會嘛 對不對\n那可是呢 這個行為就遭到台北地檢署 依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪 給予緩起訴處分 需繳酷一萬元我跟你講 這太多啦 我講不完啦 我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長 跟我們的署長講 確實我承認啦 剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到\n他有一些標準的問題 好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車 公務車當Uber E大概在所有攤檔裡面 這兩個我們禮具最扯欸 沒錯吧\n你去參敘齁 你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對那你參加婚宴 壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑 通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊\n委員報告 目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長\n不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊 所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質 釐清活動的性質 對不對\n送狗 送牠的愛犬去美容把車子 公務車當Uber E來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事 我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉 我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個\n把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛 廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有 那是民眾 就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊 所以大家就等著看啦\n如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事 沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對 我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以 責任就結束了嗎\n它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊\n不是 跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已 對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑\n那中央好像奇怪啦 就沒事啦跟委員報告一下 他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦 我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁\n就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦\n我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當Uber Eats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎\n他是繞個路送個蛋糕去 也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準 說真的 大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有 按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦 檢查機關\n不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了\n這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦 努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待 以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.328 --> 00:28.223\n主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好麻煩法務部長廉政署署長羅委員那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽不要讓我笑好請教一下這個\n\n00:31.153 --> 00:52.841\n監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成UberE-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長\n\n00:57.483 --> 01:17.481\n那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛對不對有然後請問一下那個先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎\n\n01:18.609 --> 01:46.843\n我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當UberE-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛不可能嘛\n\n01:48.427 --> 02:10.798\n我跟各位講剛剛不管是藍綠的委員白的委員都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容把公務車拿來當UberE我也當過我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候這也不可能發生的事情啊\n\n02:11.940 --> 02:31.176\n那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長\n\n02:33.206 --> 03:00.408\n我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎\n\n03:02.646 --> 03:14.862\n這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果\n\n03:17.918 --> 03:37.098\n那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車機車與友人參與後又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎\n\n03:39.901 --> 04:07.466\n檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到\n\n04:08.346 --> 04:12.589\n參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎\n\n04:33.278 --> 04:49.307\n這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對\n\n04:51.974 --> 05:19.650\n部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛對不對不會啦就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴壽宴私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛對不對但是\n\n05:20.899 --> 05:26.563\n台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情然後判處20萬罰金再來2022年屏東縣警察局\n\n05:35.696 --> 05:53.017\n莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎\n\n05:55.851 --> 06:21.836\n市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝部長呢也是嘛不會嘛對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎\n\n06:22.984 --> 06:50.426\n不會啦對不對不會嘛對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦\n\n06:51.167 --> 07:08.802\n然後今年1月松山分局的張姓袁景開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎會不會也不會嘛也不會嘛對不對會嗎也不會嘛對不對\n\n07:15.745 --> 07:37.602\n那可是呢這個行為就遭到台北地檢署依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪給予緩起訴處分需繳酷一萬元我跟你講這太多啦我講不完啦我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長跟我們的署長講確實我承認啦剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到\n\n07:38.806 --> 08:03.161\n他有一些標準的問題好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車公務車當UberE大概在所有攤檔裡面這兩個我們禮具最扯欸沒錯吧\n\n08:05.049 --> 08:30.760\n你去參敘齁你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊對不對那你參加婚宴壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊\n\n08:32.660 --> 08:55.737\n委員報告目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長\n\n08:57.162 --> 09:20.094\n不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質釐清活動的性質對不對\n\n09:22.199 --> 09:49.758\n送狗送牠的愛犬去美容把車子公務車當UberE來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個\n\n09:51.291 --> 10:15.895\n把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有那是民眾就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊所以大家就等著看啦\n\n10:17.168 --> 10:44.930\n如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以責任就結束了嗎\n\n10:47.886 --> 11:07.828\n它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊\n\n11:08.803 --> 11:33.997\n不是跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑\n\n11:34.980 --> 12:02.351\n那中央好像奇怪啦就沒事啦跟委員報告一下他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁\n\n12:03.672 --> 12:26.630\n就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦\n\n12:28.035 --> 12:52.276\n我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當UberEats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎\n\n12:54.741 --> 13:13.847\n他是繞個路送個蛋糕去也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準說真的大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦檢查機關\n\n13:16.818 --> 13:32.785\n不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了\n\n13:41.548 --> 13:56.937\n這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.328,"end":28.223,"text":"主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好 麻煩法務部長 廉政署署長羅委員 那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽 不要讓我笑好 請教一下這個"},{"start":31.153,"end":52.841,"text":"監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成Uber E-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長"},{"start":57.483,"end":77.481,"text":"那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分 大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下 部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛 對不對有然後請問一下 那個 先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎"},{"start":78.609,"end":106.843,"text":"我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當Uber E-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對 部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛 不可能嘛"},{"start":108.427,"end":130.798,"text":"我跟各位講 剛剛不管是藍綠的委員 白的委員 都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容 把公務車拿來當Uber E我也當過 我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候 這也不可能發生的事情啊"},{"start":131.94,"end":151.176,"text":"那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係 他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長"},{"start":153.206,"end":180.408,"text":"我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎"},{"start":182.646,"end":194.862,"text":"這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果"},{"start":197.918,"end":217.098,"text":"那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車 機車與友人參與後 又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長 你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎"},{"start":219.901,"end":247.466,"text":"檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到"},{"start":248.346,"end":252.589,"text":"參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎"},{"start":273.278,"end":289.307,"text":"這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對"},{"start":291.974,"end":319.65,"text":"部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛 對不對不會啦 就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴 壽宴 私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛 對不對但是"},{"start":320.899,"end":326.563,"text":"台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情 然後判處20萬罰金再來 2022年屏東縣警察局"},{"start":335.696,"end":353.017,"text":"莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎"},{"start":355.851,"end":381.836,"text":"市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝 部長呢也是嘛 不會嘛 對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎"},{"start":382.984,"end":410.426,"text":"不會啦 對不對不會嘛 對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛 對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦"},{"start":411.167,"end":428.802,"text":"然後今年1月 松山分局的張姓袁景 開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問 會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎 會不會 也不會嘛 也不會嘛 對不對 會嗎 也不會嘛 對不對"},{"start":435.745,"end":457.602,"text":"那可是呢 這個行為就遭到台北地檢署 依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪 給予緩起訴處分 需繳酷一萬元我跟你講 這太多啦 我講不完啦 我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長 跟我們的署長講 確實我承認啦 剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到"},{"start":458.806,"end":483.161,"text":"他有一些標準的問題 好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車 公務車當Uber E大概在所有攤檔裡面 這兩個我們禮具最扯欸 沒錯吧"},{"start":485.049,"end":510.76,"text":"你去參敘齁 你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對那你參加婚宴 壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑 通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊"},{"start":512.66,"end":535.737,"text":"委員報告 目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長"},{"start":537.162,"end":560.094,"text":"不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊 所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質 釐清活動的性質 對不對"},{"start":562.199,"end":589.758,"text":"送狗 送牠的愛犬去美容把車子 公務車當Uber E來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事 我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉 我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個"},{"start":591.291,"end":615.895,"text":"把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛 廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有 那是民眾 就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊 所以大家就等著看啦"},{"start":617.168,"end":644.93,"text":"如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事 沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對 我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以 責任就結束了嗎"},{"start":647.886,"end":667.828,"text":"它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊"},{"start":668.803,"end":693.997,"text":"不是 跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已 對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑"},{"start":694.98,"end":722.351,"text":"那中央好像奇怪啦 就沒事啦跟委員報告一下 他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦 我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁"},{"start":723.672,"end":746.63,"text":"就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦"},{"start":748.035,"end":772.276,"text":"我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當Uber Eats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎"},{"start":774.741,"end":793.847,"text":"他是繞個路送個蛋糕去 也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準 說真的 大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有 按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦 檢查機關"},{"start":796.818,"end":812.785,"text":"不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了"},{"start":821.548,"end":836.937,"text":"這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦 努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待 以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":663,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時31分）主席，有請法務部長，還有廉政署署長。"],["主席：好，麻煩法務部部長、廉政署署長。","羅委員，立委要監督官員，不是護航。"],["羅委員智強：我在咳嗽，不要讓我笑。","請教一下，監察院的李俊俋秘書長用公務車接送愛犬美容，還把公務車當成Uber Eats為自家送餐，他本來想用一句「思慮不周」交代過去，但看見火越燒越大，不敢到立法院接受質詢，就坦承有負職務廉潔標準，然後匆匆請辭秘書長。我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員，針對公務車使用的部分，大家有很多的意見跟看法，我想請教一下部長跟署長，你們都有配公務車嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有。"],["羅委員智強：然後請問一下，先請問署長好了，請問您會把公務車拿去送愛犬美容嗎？"],["馮署長成：我也沒有養狗，不會做私人的事情。"],["羅委員智強：沒有養狗，不會做私人的事，所以也不會把公務車拿去當Uber Eats為自家送餐嘛？"],["馮署長成：我們完全遵照行政院頒的車輛使用規定。"],["羅委員智強：不可能的事情嘛，對不對？部長，這應該不用問你，這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有養狗。"],["羅委員智強：你就算有養狗，有養寵物，也不會發生這種事吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不會這樣用。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛，不可能嘛！我跟各位講，剛剛不管是藍綠的委員，或是白的委員，都有講標準的問題，但有些東西真的是離譜嘛！把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容，把公務車拿來當Uber Eats。我也有派過公務車，我在總統府當副秘書長的時候，這也是不可能發生的事情啊，我不知道為什麼我們偉大的李俊俋就會發生這種事情。但是沒有關係，這是他個人的行為，我們今天問的是法律的問題。","事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的案例，我們來看看他的法律結果是什麼，我來請教兩位首長，剛剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人使用、當作私人汽車使用，不會嘛，對不對？好，那你知道，雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長，他被指將局長座車當作私人汽車使用，遭監察院彈劾，你知道最後的法律結果是什麼嗎？他面臨什麼樣的法律結果，請問部長知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，懲戒法院判他休職兩年，刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪，判刑一年、緩刑三年，這是這個案例的結果。","2021年也發生臺北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長，騎公務機車與友人餐敘後，又騎車返家休息。我想請問署長，你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎？"],["馮署長成：我不知道。"],["羅委員智強：檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借職務機會背信罪，因為認罪且無前科，所以給予緩起訴一年。","再來，2021年臺南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏，搭乘公務車前往大學進修、參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘。我想請教一下，請問署長，你會搭公務車參加所謂大學進修嗎？部長？署長？"],["馮署長成：我不會，而且我也沒有去大學進修。"],["羅委員智強：會搭公務車去參加婚宴嗎？"],["馮署長成：原則上不會，我們……"],["羅委員智強：部長會嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要看業務的性質。"],["羅委員智強：看業務性質喔，有點模糊空間啦。會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是要看業務性質，如果這個壽宴屬於跟那個機關業務聯繫有關的話，當然這個……"],["羅委員智強：會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：私人餐敘？我不會搭公務車參加私人餐敘。"],["羅委員智強：那你也要看那餐敘性質嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：看餐敘的性質啦。"],["羅委員智強：部長，我跟你講，我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底該不該當所謂的刑事犯罪，所以我才問兩位你們處理的規則是什麼，但很明顯不會搭公務車去大學進修，對不對？不會啦，就算有進修的機會，也不會搭公務車去大學進修。但是婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘，那可能就要看業務性質屬性了，對不對？但是這件事情臺南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴，然後判處20萬的罰金。","再來，2022年屏東縣警察局莊姓分局長，在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品。我想請問一下署長，你會在休假期間駕著公務車，去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎？"],["馮署長成：跟委員報告，我上下班都是自己開車，在公務車的運用上，我們會嚴守用於公務的部分。"],["羅委員智強：對，好，非常謝謝。部長呢？也是不會嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["羅委員智強：不會嘛。然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦。然後2023年，基隆市警察局吳姓保防科長使用公務車接送妻小。兩位會用公務車接送妻小嗎？不會啦，對不對？不會嘛，對不對？所以這個也是一條線嘛。他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦。2024年監察院通過彈劾金防部林姓參謀長，因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車。你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎？也不會嘛，連問都不用問，對不對？這不可能的事嘛！他公器私用被彈劾。","然後今年1月，松山分局的張姓員警開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友。想請問會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎？會不會？也不會嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不會。"],["羅委員智強：會嗎？也不會嘛，對不對？可是這個行為就遭到臺北地檢署依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪給予緩起訴處分，須繳庫1萬元。我跟你講，這個案例太多了，我講不完，可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情？我跟部長跟署長講，確實我承認剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到，這有一些標準的問題，比方你剛剛講餐敘，那個餐敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何，可能有點模糊地帶要釐清，對不對？可是這林林總總，我跟你講，我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容，把公務車當Uber Eats，大概在所有案例裡面，我們李俊俋最扯，沒錯吧？你去餐敘，你還可以講這個餐敘跟我的業務也有關係，對不對？你參加婚宴、壽宴，我也可以說跟我的業務也有關係，對不對？部長，你可能也覺得這個可能跟業務有關係，可是你把你的愛犬用公務車載去美容，我想請問署長，按照這些通通被判刑、通通被法辦的標準，李俊俋要不要被判啊？"],["馮署長成：跟委員報告，目前這幾個案件都有告發到臺北地檢署，他們會偵辦。"],["羅委員智強：對，我真的就是要看著，因為太離譜嘛。確實我還是要強調，前面很多委員在講公務車的使用，每個地方的標準、規則可能不一樣，但是沒有一個地方會跟你說可以帶著愛犬去美容，應該沒有這個標準吧！署長，不會有這個標準吧！"],["馮署長成：標準就是要符合公務，就是跟公務有關。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！所以我今天在這邊要跟部長說，外界確實在看著這件事情，有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下，因為這還要去釐清，比如說釐清餐敘的性質、釐清活動的性質，對不對？送狗、送他的愛犬去美容，把公務車當Uber Eats，我看也不用去釐清什麼性質了，純粹就是公器私用。如果別人公器私用都沒事，我覺得那是一回事，但是很抱歉，我剛剛唸那麼多還沒唸完，在那麼多的案例裡面，我就要問，到底李俊俋這個案子是怎麼樣？他是把自己家裡的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎？也當成去經辦業務嗎？因此在這邊我們要看看，到底我們今天……我們的檢方現在已經告發了，廉政署也接到告發了，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，就是民代直接到北檢告發。"],["羅委員智強：對啊，所以大家就等著看，如果我剛剛唸的這些都有事情的話，我真的就要等著看李俊俋到底有沒有事情，不是辭官就了事，沒錯吧？請問部長，這種法律的刑事問題，不是辭官就結束的嘛。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是由檢察官了解、調查。"],["羅委員智強：我想問署長，如果犯了所謂的不廉潔、貪污，或者是背信一些刑事上公務員瀆職的問題，辭職責任就結束了嗎？"],["馮署長成：跟委員報告，他的案件調查其實要看構成要件，之前有很多案子其實是有移送然後判刑，也有一些沒有移送，他的標準就在於……"],["羅委員智強：你完全講到重點了，署長。"],["馮署長成：標準就是說他有一個點……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，你完全講到重點了，那個標準真的是浮動。"],["馮署長成：不是，跟委員講，就是其中有一個點……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，剛剛有一個我沒有問的，2018年時任移民署長，即中央級官員，他帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊，你知道他的結果是什麼？就辭職而已，對不對？所以我就要講，同樣的情形，在地方的時候他就被判刑，在中央就奇怪了，好像就沒事了。"],["馮署長成：跟委員報告，在車輛使用上有首長用車的部分，還有一般派遣的部分，派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的問題，所以在這個部分比較有牽涉到相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分，當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察，是不是有公務或違法……"],["羅委員智強：我當然知道，我就說過，如果有些態樣就像我剛剛講的餐敘、壽宴、婚宴，這中間到底它跟你的業務關聯度如何？那是個案要去釐清，這一點我也認同，可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的，我們在質詢的過程當中，不用再為李俊俋去找任何緩頰的空間了，這兩件事情就是赤裸裸的公器私用，已經踩到底了。我跟你講，我還是那句話，我剛剛唸那麼多的案例，沒有比他更離譜的啦！有嗎？有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的？哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的？有比把公務車當Uber Eats離譜的？有位警察是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事了，他有像我們李俊俋帶著狗去美容嗎？他是繞個路送個蛋糕去也有事啊！所以不要說今天這個公務車……當然這個標準，說真的，大家要好好去想想，標準不一致也是個問題，可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有……按照過去這些判準、判例，我真的拜託檢察機關，不要讓人家覺得好像遇到民進黨的要員，李俊俋是民進黨的要員、大老，遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了，重點是今天質詢完，因為辦案還需要時間，對不對？辦了一個月、兩個月、半年、一年之後，發現風頭過了，悄悄的又沒事了，這是經常有人覺得今天辦案標準不一致，讓大家對司法沒有信心的原因，所以拜託努力一點好不好？請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":258,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-19","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","陳培瑜","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","林倩綺"],"page_start":177,"meetingDate":["2025-06-02"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請監察院秘書長、審計部審計長、司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部\n廉政署署長、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、內\n政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「如何落實清廉政府及公務員瀆職之態樣與防制」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145701_00004"}}}