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0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 44.701, \"end\": 44.941, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 44.941, \"end\": 46.542, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 46.542, \"end\": 46.702, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 46.702, \"end\": 46.842, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 46.842, \"end\": 46.982, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 46.982, \"end\": 47.342, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 47.342, \"end\": 47.702, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 47.702, \"end\": 48.062, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 48.062, \"end\": 48.422, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 48.422, \"end\": 48.562, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 48.562, \"end\": 48.702, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 48.702, \"end\": 48.962, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 48.962, \"end\": 49.082, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 49.082, \"end\": 49.382, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 49.382, \"end\": 49.542, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 49.542, \"end\": 49.722, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 49.722, \"end\": 49.843, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 49.843, \"end\": 50.063, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 50.063, \"end\": 50.203, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 50.203, \"end\": 50.383, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 50.383, \"end\": 50.783, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 50.783, \"end\": 50.963, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 50.963, \"end\": 51.163, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 51.163, \"end\": 51.183, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 52.384, \"end\": 66.259, \"text\": \"這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 52.384, \"end\": 52.724, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 52.724, \"end\": 52.824, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 52.824, \"end\": 53.365, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 53.365, \"end\": 53.565, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 53.565, \"end\": 54.166, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 54.166, \"end\": 54.286, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 54.286, \"end\": 54.466, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 54.466, \"end\": 54.786, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 54.786, \"end\": 54.966, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 54.966, \"end\": 55.167, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"它\", 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所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 66.98, \"end\": 67.68, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.68, \"end\": 68.12, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 68.12, \"end\": 68.24, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 68.24, \"end\": 68.34, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 68.34, \"end\": 68.48, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 68.48, \"end\": 68.72, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 68.72, \"end\": 69.12, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 69.12, \"end\": 69.26, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.26, \"end\": 69.38, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 69.38, \"end\": 69.52, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 69.52, \"end\": 69.66, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 69.66, \"end\": 69.801, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": 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796.916, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 796.916, \"end\": 796.936, \"score\": 0.009}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,170\n請部長謝謝請部長上來\n\n2\n00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:29,957\n根據勞金局公布的最新資料目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億在今年美國對等關稅影響下已經虧損了將近一千九百多億如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金還有這個農民的退休基金應該是總虧損高達兩千多億然後民間有個說法就是說平均每年賠一萬多\n\n3\n00:00:31,078 --> 00:00:51,183\n你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎如果不正確請趕快跟證說明清楚我想這個說法當然是不對的勞工朋友提繳的年金那是絕對不會減少的尤其是像在我們勞退機制裡面其實就有保障的收益制度雖然看起來\n\n4\n00:00:52,384 --> 00:01:06,259\n這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益\n\n5\n00:01:06,980 --> 00:01:32,845\n那這是勞退的部分那勞保的部分我們是確定給複製所以基金收益的波動是不會影響到勞保給付的金額我想這部分是我們一定會來跟社會來講清楚剛剛委員在講說市面上面在流傳的這個說法我想它是不正確的對啊所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是\n\n6\n00:01:34,705 --> 00:01:50,454\n實在是有在勞動民心我覺得是很不正確原本投資是有起有落那我們有設定所謂的保障機制基本上就不可能有這種事情發生所以這必須要盡快的說明清楚是其一但是美國關稅90天期間將至在7月8號前或許我們會朝向\n\n7\n00:01:57,077 --> 00:02:19,383\n好的方向去發展也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展萊頓部這邊針對相關的基金運用上有沒有什麼因應的作為跟基本的方針因為當川普大力宣布這樣的事情的情況之下確實造成很大的市場上的波動那我們現在不曉得萊頓部的因應作為是什麼\n\n8\n00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:43,602\n我想因為現在台灣的我們的國家的談判團隊正在跟美國在做這個關稅的談判但是我想勞動部有可能就像剛剛文說有可能比較好往好的狀況方也有可能往比較這個嚴峻的狀況那從勞動部角度我們當然一定會把情境設定是比較嚴峻的狀況來去做相關的準備\n\n9\n00:02:44,022 --> 00:03:12,359\n因為如果嚴峻的狀況你過得了的話好的狀況其實當然就也比較能夠過所以我們包括現在在這個現在的這個特別條例裡面其實已經有規劃了150億的這個經費那如果150億來協助來支持我們勞動朋友度過關稅的這樣子的衝擊還不夠的話其實我們也還有包括我們的救保或者是救安的基金其實可以來支應不是不是不是部長我的問題focus是在這個\n\n10\n00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:35,465\n勞動基金的運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針然後避免這樣的這個基金的虧損持續擴大對不對跟委員報告我們勞動基金的運用我們一向就是從長期來看市場的波動一定有我當然說是從長期來看啦不是看短暫的這個我非常清楚嘛對不對但是因為\n\n11\n00:03:36,545 --> 00:04:00,555\n因為川普大帝的這樣的一個震撼力有時候真的你必須要去有一些具體的因應方針來做處理我們會持續關我們一向本來就是會關注市場的變化隨時來調整那在市場整個大跌的時候我們的基金的運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出認賠出來這個反而對我們基金不利\n\n12\n00:04:04,577 --> 00:04:14,402\n那我要補充說明你要不要出言你不用在委會講你只要跟我講說因為這個美國對你關稅而且7月8日到期有沒有任何的你們有評估過的相關研擬的具體方針\n\n13\n00:04:17,878 --> 00:04:38,669\n可以來做這樣的較好的營運避免基金的虧損擴大就這樣而已委員跟您報告這個投資本來每天就要看市場所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略我們基本上我們每年有一個大策略但是我們每季也有我們隨時都在\n\n14\n00:04:40,370 --> 00:04:59,586\n你們每年都有大策略我知道但是你們每年大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的死難嘛所以他是一個很突破狀況他是一個很不確定的狀況他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的一個狀態情況之下劉謙許有沒有相關的因應的具體方針這樣就好了啦你簡單回應我就好了好不好\n\n15\n00:05:01,130 --> 00:05:19,609\n有沒有啦有有好謝謝這樣就好了不要再講下去了對你又說到時候是因為你的一些講話造成一些波動這樣不好對不對好那我們接著請請我回報請部長你再看一下因為是受到美國人關稅這樣的一個影響嘛目前這個全台實務薪假\n\n16\n00:05:20,089 --> 00:05:31,576\n已經達到155家所以影響的勞工高達2800多人無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題未來七八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報我們不能去預估\n\n17\n00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:59,069\n未來這幾個月到底可能會有在多少家提出來然後我們針對這幾家可能受到衝擊是怎麼樣有沒有去做相關的一些預估各位報告其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注現在這個我們會講減班休息因為它並不是真的無薪OK對那這個減班休息的加速那確實現在是大概其實是有微幅的緩步的上升\n\n18\n00:05:59,989 --> 00:06:24,817\n那但是17月8號之後會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊這個影響會不會更大我們現在其實我們也做好相關的準備了這個準備其實就包括我們的僱用安定措施包括我們這個充電再觸發的措施都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話怎麼樣來支持我們可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的這個減損那我們怎麼樣來協助\n\n19\n00:06:27,578 --> 00:06:54,790\n所以這幾個我們都做包括剛才在講到就是說透過特別條例的150億那也包括我們的救保的基金其實就是來做這方面的因應好我只是要提醒部長因為我還是特別強調剛剛上個題目問題是一樣的因為你面對川普的狀況很多事情你是很難預估的然後我們或許跟美國談的後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展那有些事情就一定能解嘛那萬一不是呢相反之\n\n20\n00:06:55,450 --> 00:07:13,219\n那勞動部可能要辦起更重大的這樣的一個應變的能力跟責任嘛現在確實減班休息裡面目前看起來是在比較多那有幾個特定的產業其實增加的幅度會多一點可是我們其實很密切在監測也主動的跟這些相關的工會或者產業在做座談來提供我們協助我知道你都有在做啦\n\n21\n00:07:13,339 --> 00:07:42,091\n不過我是針對點的這一個現在我們遇到這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣那如果我用兩千零八兩千我還下了對比當時全國持是無薪假高達五百八十幾家啦受到影響的勞工將近快到二十四萬嘛對不對那我們我們新任的調兵師我們黃師長宋永是這麼講嘛齁目前對等對美的這個對等關稅能有高度的不確定性台灣也正與美國談判中政府採取謹慎態度密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況\n\n22\n00:07:43,451 --> 00:08:05,203\n會主動聯繫通報事業單位進行輔導方式提供勞動部勞動力發展署如充電載出發訓練計畫僱用安定措施等支援以保障勞工權利對不對OK沒問題我請教一下目前155家有提出充電載出發訓練計畫還有僱用安定措施有幾家\n\n23\n00:08:06,567 --> 00:08:33,049\n現在是比較少的目前有提出為什麼會比較少因為不好用因為不知道怎麼用應該是確實有些僱主我們其實有問他說你要不要提出比方說充電材出發可是僱主目前是說他沒有意願你們要去鼓勵他們要提出嘛對不對當然而且我們現在其實在甚至檢討因為過去其實是要透過僱主才能夠申請我們現在新的設計勞工直接就可以申請不然你能不能直接導入我150家目前\n\n24\n00:08:33,729 --> 00:08:43,877\n提出是幾家啦簡單就好這兩個計畫充電站目前是七家七家七家這樣不到一趴多對啊僱用呢僱用安定措施\n\n25\n00:08:44,799 --> 00:09:09,162\n顧問安定措施現在是大概30家30家兩成多合理嗎合不合理嗎我們確實覺得要再提高所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計我們自己包括勞動部跟地方政府我們會主動的來聯繫已經放這個減班休息的勞工你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力\n\n26\n00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:32,106\n我自己覺得當很多的雇主他聽完完整的了解我們計劃的設計以後他們是覺得這是不錯的有吸引力的可是確實現在是有很多的企業他對我們相關的企業聽完之後覺得有吸引力然後又不提出然後提出又是一層多有一些聽完他就有來表達155家目前為止執行有聽完的幾家\n\n27\n00:09:36,221 --> 00:09:53,251\n我們其實都沒有主動聯繫啦沒有主動聯繫不然你怎麼會講說有幾家聽起來覺得還不錯是幾家嘛我們一個電台資料基本上要有個基本的數額嘛對不對155家如果是有一家兩家聽到覺得還不錯這兩家又不提出來那這真的還不錯了\n\n28\n00:09:57,765 --> 00:10:00,752\n監察院這個報告裡面這當然不是新的署長的任內也不是部長任內\n\n29\n00:10:08,601 --> 00:10:33,407\n老化署青年自來發展中心運作長達12年能為訂定服務基線均與產出型指標衡量績效至達成旅超標200%甚至破千以上能夠提升青年就業資成效為敏因為優先對就業不利的青年族群建構差異性自來輔導模式服務內容高度重疊交易部門導致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資已發展\n\n30\n00:10:38,428 --> 00:11:05,095\n我要一次講這兩件事情啦這是監察院剛剛糾正的5月21號糾正的沒有錯嘛對不對好那我再回歸到頭這裡面還有很多洋洋灑灑寫的一大堆東西啦齁我再回歸到頭就是說你的充電債出發你的職癌你的僱用安定措施到底陳如妮說的好不好用聽了大家都覺得還不錯但是大家都不提出申請還是提出申請的比例非常低\n\n31\n00:11:06,994 --> 00:11:11,481\n應該就是有檢討的必要的空間了嘛對不對對當然當然都有精進的空間\n\n32\n00:11:14,338 --> 00:11:38,134\n什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成提出修正相關的計畫因為7月8號快到了到時候還是這個計畫一層多那個計畫兩層多根本說明關於充電災出發的部分我們其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式我們會直接聯繫這個勞工本人不一定非得要透過僱主\n\n33\n00:11:38,954 --> 00:11:52,875\n因為過去就是僱主他覺得他他沒有意願可是這可能會影響了勞工來舉舉的自願的權利變化就是說原有僱主提出申請現在勞工可以提出申請嘛對不對好這個應變的措施我OK我接受但是實質的內容\n\n34\n00:11:55,461 --> 00:12:18,096\n真的有幫助嗎真的覺得不錯嗎還是部長你個人認為不錯他其實能夠獲得的訓練的津貼那其實是對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的我們就要檢視現在才六月初而已嘛我們六月底來檢視嘛反正我們這是研會到七月底了呀對不對這一個月內如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法因為一個一成多實在很難去幫你訂這個KPI啦你都沒有辦法超過五成\n\n35\n00:12:25,970 --> 00:12:29,169\n那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正?要不要?\n\n36\n00:12:30,356 --> 00:12:57,631\n要不要?我們會強化的來執行但是你不能逼人家執行啊你不能在我那邊說大家聽起來都不錯啊但是我們就不要申請啊結果你如果說我怎樣怎樣他就給你打出來申請結果那個還是假的就像監察院糾正的狀況狀況的事情會持續發生我不好意思再唸下去的這幾項再唸下去真的這個老花鼠新來的署長可能你要有相關的因應作為\n\n37\n00:12:59,144 --> 00:13:16,936\n因為監察院已經提出糾正你不要未來又這兩個計畫又被糾正不好我只是提醒一個月內相關的調整計畫成立委員會然後提高申請的比例當然破50%OK謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位辛苦了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t170\t請部長謝謝請部長上來\n5219\t29957\t根據勞金局公布的最新資料目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億在今年美國對等關稅影響下已經虧損了將近一千九百多億如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金還有這個農民的退休基金應該是總虧損高達兩千多億然後民間有個說法就是說平均每年賠一萬多\n31078\t51183\t你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎如果不正確請趕快跟證說明清楚我想這個說法當然是不對的勞工朋友提繳的年金那是絕對不會減少的尤其是像在我們勞退機制裡面其實就有保障的收益制度雖然看起來\n52384\t66259\t這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益\n66980\t92845\t那這是勞退的部分 那勞保的部分我們是確定給複製所以基金收益的波動是不會影響到勞保給付的金額我想這部分是我們一定會來跟社會來講清楚剛剛委員在講說市面上面在流傳的這個說法我想它是不正確的對啊 所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是\n94705\t110454\t實在是有在勞動民心我覺得是很不正確原本投資是有起有落那我們有設定所謂的保障機制基本上就不可能有這種事情發生所以這必須要盡快的說明清楚是其一但是美國關稅90天期間將至在7月8號前或許我們會朝向\n117077\t139383\t好的方向去發展也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展萊頓部這邊針對相關的基金運用上有沒有什麼因應的作為跟基本的方針因為當川普大力宣布這樣的事情的情況之下確實造成很大的市場上的波動那我們現在不曉得萊頓部的因應作為是什麼\n140660\t163602\t我想因為現在台灣的我們的國家的談判團隊正在跟美國在做這個關稅的談判但是我想勞動部有可能就像剛剛文說有可能比較好往好的狀況方也有可能往比較這個嚴峻的狀況那從勞動部角度我們當然一定會把情境設定是比較嚴峻的狀況來去做相關的準備\n164022\t192359\t因為如果嚴峻的狀況你過得了的話好的狀況其實當然就也比較能夠過所以我們包括現在在這個現在的這個特別條例裡面其實已經有規劃了150億的這個經費那如果150億來協助來支持我們勞動朋友度過關稅的這樣子的衝擊還不夠的話其實我們也還有包括我們的救保或者是救安的基金其實可以來支應不是不是不是部長我的問題focus是在這個\n194040\t215465\t勞動基金的運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針然後避免這樣的這個基金的虧損持續擴大對不對跟委員報告我們勞動基金的運用我們一向就是從長期來看市場的波動一定有我當然說是從長期來看啦不是看短暫的這個我非常清楚嘛對不對但是因為\n216545\t240555\t因為川普大帝的這樣的一個震撼力有時候真的你必須要去有一些具體的因應方針來做處理我們會持續關我們一向本來就是會關注市場的變化隨時來調整那在市場整個大跌的時候我們的基金的運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出認賠出來這個反而對我們基金不利\n244577\t254402\t那我要補充說明 你要不要出言你不用在委會講你只要跟我講說因為這個美國對你關稅而且7月8日到期有沒有任何的你們有評估過的相關研擬的具體方針\n257878\t278669\t可以來做這樣的較好的營運 避免基金的虧損擴大 就這樣而已委員跟您報告 這個投資本來每天就要看市場所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略我們基本上我們每年有一個大策略但是我們每季也有 我們隨時都在\n280370\t299586\t你們每年都有大策略我知道但是你們每年大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的死難嘛所以他是一個很突破狀況他是一個很不確定的狀況他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的一個狀態情況之下劉謙許有沒有相關的因應的具體方針這樣就好了啦你簡單回應我就好了好不好\n301130\t319609\t有沒有啦有有好謝謝這樣就好了不要再講下去了對你又說到時候是因為你的一些講話造成一些波動這樣不好對不對好那我們接著請請我回報請部長你再看一下因為是受到美國人關稅這樣的一個影響嘛目前這個全台實務薪假\n320089\t331576\t已經達到155家所以影響的勞工高達2800多人無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題未來七八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報我們不能去預估\n334960\t359069\t未來這幾個月到底可能會有在多少家提出來然後我們針對這幾家可能受到衝擊是怎麼樣有沒有去做相關的一些預估各位報告其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注現在這個我們會講減班休息因為它並不是真的無薪OK對那這個減班休息的加速那確實現在是大概其實是有微幅的緩步的上升\n359989\t384817\t那但是17月8號之後會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊這個影響會不會更大我們現在其實我們也做好相關的準備了這個準備其實就包括我們的僱用安定措施包括我們這個充電再觸發的措施都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話怎麼樣來支持我們可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的這個減損那我們怎麼樣來協助\n387578\t414790\t所以這幾個我們都做包括剛才在講到就是說透過特別條例的150億那也包括我們的救保的基金其實就是來做這方面的因應好 我只是要提醒部長因為我還是特別強調剛剛上個題目問題是一樣的因為你面對川普的狀況很多事情你是很難預估的然後我們或許跟美國談的後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展那有些事情就一定能解嘛那萬一不是呢 相反之\n415450\t433219\t那勞動部可能要辦起更重大的這樣的一個應變的能力跟責任嘛現在確實減班休息裡面目前看起來是在比較多那有幾個特定的產業其實增加的幅度會多一點可是我們其實很密切在監測也主動的跟這些相關的工會或者產業在做座談來提供我們協助我知道你都有在做啦\n433339\t462091\t不過我是針對點的這一個現在我們遇到這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣那如果我用兩千零八兩千我還下了對比當時全國持是無薪假高達五百八十幾家啦受到影響的勞工將近快到二十四萬嘛對不對那我們我們新任的調兵師我們黃師長宋永是這麼講嘛齁目前對等對美的這個對等關稅能有高度的不確定性台灣也正與美國談判中政府採取謹慎態度密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況\n463451\t485203\t會主動聯繫通報事業單位進行輔導方式提供勞動部勞動力發展署如充電載出發訓練計畫僱用安定措施等支援以保障勞工權利對不對OK沒問題我請教一下目前155家有提出充電載出發訓練計畫還有僱用安定措施有幾家\n486567\t513049\t現在是比較少的 目前有提出為什麼會比較少因為不好用因為不知道怎麼用應該是確實有些僱主我們其實有問他說你要不要提出比方說充電材出發可是僱主目前是說他沒有意願你們要去鼓勵他們要提出嘛對不對當然而且我們現在其實在甚至檢討因為過去其實是要透過僱主才能夠申請我們現在新的設計勞工直接就可以申請不然你能不能直接導入我150家目前\n513729\t523877\t提出是幾家啦 簡單就好這兩個計畫 充電站目前是七家七家 七家這樣不到一趴多 對啊僱用呢 僱用安定措施\n524799\t549162\t顧問安定措施現在是大概30家30家兩成多合理嗎合不合理嗎我們確實覺得要再提高所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計我們自己包括勞動部跟地方政府我們會主動的來聯繫已經放這個減班休息的勞工你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力\n553260\t572106\t我自己覺得當很多的雇主他聽完完整的了解我們計劃的設計以後他們是覺得這是不錯的有吸引力的可是確實現在是有很多的企業他對我們相關的企業聽完之後覺得有吸引力然後又不提出然後提出又是一層多有一些聽完他就有來表達155家目前為止執行有聽完的幾家\n576221\t593251\t我們其實都沒有主動聯繫啦沒有主動聯繫不然你怎麼會講說有幾家聽起來覺得還不錯是幾家嘛我們一個電台資料基本上要有個基本的數額嘛對不對155家如果是有一家兩家聽到覺得還不錯這兩家又不提出來那這真的還不錯了\n597765\t600752\t監察院這個報告裡面這當然不是新的署長的任內也不是部長任內\n608601\t633407\t老化署青年自來發展中心運作長達12年能為訂定服務基線均與產出型指標衡量績效至達成旅超標200%甚至破千以上能夠提升青年就業資成效為敏因為優先對就業不利的青年族群建構差異性自來輔導模式服務內容高度重疊交易部門導致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資已發展\n638428\t665095\t我要一次講這兩件事情啦這是監察院剛剛糾正的5月21號糾正的沒有錯嘛對不對好那我再回歸到頭這裡面還有很多洋洋灑灑寫的一大堆東西啦齁我再回歸到頭就是說你的充電債出發你的職癌你的僱用安定措施到底陳如妮說的好不好用聽了大家都覺得還不錯但是大家都不提出申請還是提出申請的比例非常低\n666994\t671481\t應該就是有檢討的必要的空間了嘛對不對對當然當然都有精進的空間\n674338\t698134\t什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成 提出修正相關的計畫因為7月8號快到了到時候還是這個計畫一層多 那個計畫兩層多根本說明關於充電災出發的部分我們其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式我們會直接聯繫這個勞工本人不一定非得要透過僱主\n698954\t712875\t因為過去就是僱主他覺得他他沒有意願可是這可能會影響了勞工來舉舉的自願的權利變化就是說原有僱主提出申請現在勞工可以提出申請嘛對不對好這個應變的措施我OK我接受但是實質的內容\n715461\t738096\t真的有幫助嗎真的覺得不錯嗎還是部長你個人認為不錯他其實能夠獲得的訓練的津貼那其實是對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的我們就要檢視現在才六月初而已嘛我們六月底來檢視嘛反正我們這是研會到七月底了呀對不對這一個月內如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法因為一個一成多實在很難去幫你訂這個KPI啦你都沒有辦法超過五成\n745970\t749169\t那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正?要不要?\n750356\t777631\t要不要?我們會強化的來執行但是你不能逼人家執行啊你不能在我那邊說大家聽起來都不錯啊但是我們就不要申請啊結果你如果說我怎樣怎樣他就給你打出來申請結果那個還是假的就像監察院糾正的狀況狀況的事情會持續發生我不好意思再唸下去的這幾項再唸下去真的這個老花鼠新來的署長可能你要有相關的因應作為\n779144\t796936\t因為監察院已經提出糾正你不要未來又這兩個計畫又被糾正不好我只是提醒一個月內相關的調整計畫成立委員會然後提高申請的比例當然破50%OK謝謝好 謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位辛苦了\n","txt":"請部長謝謝請部長上來\n根據勞金局公布的最新資料目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億在今年美國對等關稅影響下已經虧損了將近一千九百多億如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金還有這個農民的退休基金應該是總虧損高達兩千多億然後民間有個說法就是說平均每年賠一萬多\n你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎如果不正確請趕快跟證說明清楚我想這個說法當然是不對的勞工朋友提繳的年金那是絕對不會減少的尤其是像在我們勞退機制裡面其實就有保障的收益制度雖然看起來\n這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益\n那這是勞退的部分 那勞保的部分我們是確定給複製所以基金收益的波動是不會影響到勞保給付的金額我想這部分是我們一定會來跟社會來講清楚剛剛委員在講說市面上面在流傳的這個說法我想它是不正確的對啊 所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是\n實在是有在勞動民心我覺得是很不正確原本投資是有起有落那我們有設定所謂的保障機制基本上就不可能有這種事情發生所以這必須要盡快的說明清楚是其一但是美國關稅90天期間將至在7月8號前或許我們會朝向\n好的方向去發展也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展萊頓部這邊針對相關的基金運用上有沒有什麼因應的作為跟基本的方針因為當川普大力宣布這樣的事情的情況之下確實造成很大的市場上的波動那我們現在不曉得萊頓部的因應作為是什麼\n我想因為現在台灣的我們的國家的談判團隊正在跟美國在做這個關稅的談判但是我想勞動部有可能就像剛剛文說有可能比較好往好的狀況方也有可能往比較這個嚴峻的狀況那從勞動部角度我們當然一定會把情境設定是比較嚴峻的狀況來去做相關的準備\n因為如果嚴峻的狀況你過得了的話好的狀況其實當然就也比較能夠過所以我們包括現在在這個現在的這個特別條例裡面其實已經有規劃了150億的這個經費那如果150億來協助來支持我們勞動朋友度過關稅的這樣子的衝擊還不夠的話其實我們也還有包括我們的救保或者是救安的基金其實可以來支應不是不是不是部長我的問題focus是在這個\n勞動基金的運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針然後避免這樣的這個基金的虧損持續擴大對不對跟委員報告我們勞動基金的運用我們一向就是從長期來看市場的波動一定有我當然說是從長期來看啦不是看短暫的這個我非常清楚嘛對不對但是因為\n因為川普大帝的這樣的一個震撼力有時候真的你必須要去有一些具體的因應方針來做處理我們會持續關我們一向本來就是會關注市場的變化隨時來調整那在市場整個大跌的時候我們的基金的運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出認賠出來這個反而對我們基金不利\n那我要補充說明 你要不要出言你不用在委會講你只要跟我講說因為這個美國對你關稅而且7月8日到期有沒有任何的你們有評估過的相關研擬的具體方針\n可以來做這樣的較好的營運 避免基金的虧損擴大 就這樣而已委員跟您報告 這個投資本來每天就要看市場所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略我們基本上我們每年有一個大策略但是我們每季也有 我們隨時都在\n你們每年都有大策略我知道但是你們每年大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的死難嘛所以他是一個很突破狀況他是一個很不確定的狀況他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的一個狀態情況之下劉謙許有沒有相關的因應的具體方針這樣就好了啦你簡單回應我就好了好不好\n有沒有啦有有好謝謝這樣就好了不要再講下去了對你又說到時候是因為你的一些講話造成一些波動這樣不好對不對好那我們接著請請我回報請部長你再看一下因為是受到美國人關稅這樣的一個影響嘛目前這個全台實務薪假\n已經達到155家所以影響的勞工高達2800多人無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題未來七八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報我們不能去預估\n未來這幾個月到底可能會有在多少家提出來然後我們針對這幾家可能受到衝擊是怎麼樣有沒有去做相關的一些預估各位報告其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注現在這個我們會講減班休息因為它並不是真的無薪OK對那這個減班休息的加速那確實現在是大概其實是有微幅的緩步的上升\n那但是17月8號之後會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊這個影響會不會更大我們現在其實我們也做好相關的準備了這個準備其實就包括我們的僱用安定措施包括我們這個充電再觸發的措施都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話怎麼樣來支持我們可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的這個減損那我們怎麼樣來協助\n所以這幾個我們都做包括剛才在講到就是說透過特別條例的150億那也包括我們的救保的基金其實就是來做這方面的因應好 我只是要提醒部長因為我還是特別強調剛剛上個題目問題是一樣的因為你面對川普的狀況很多事情你是很難預估的然後我們或許跟美國談的後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展那有些事情就一定能解嘛那萬一不是呢 相反之\n那勞動部可能要辦起更重大的這樣的一個應變的能力跟責任嘛現在確實減班休息裡面目前看起來是在比較多那有幾個特定的產業其實增加的幅度會多一點可是我們其實很密切在監測也主動的跟這些相關的工會或者產業在做座談來提供我們協助我知道你都有在做啦\n不過我是針對點的這一個現在我們遇到這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣那如果我用兩千零八兩千我還下了對比當時全國持是無薪假高達五百八十幾家啦受到影響的勞工將近快到二十四萬嘛對不對那我們我們新任的調兵師我們黃師長宋永是這麼講嘛齁目前對等對美的這個對等關稅能有高度的不確定性台灣也正與美國談判中政府採取謹慎態度密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況\n會主動聯繫通報事業單位進行輔導方式提供勞動部勞動力發展署如充電載出發訓練計畫僱用安定措施等支援以保障勞工權利對不對OK沒問題我請教一下目前155家有提出充電載出發訓練計畫還有僱用安定措施有幾家\n現在是比較少的 目前有提出為什麼會比較少因為不好用因為不知道怎麼用應該是確實有些僱主我們其實有問他說你要不要提出比方說充電材出發可是僱主目前是說他沒有意願你們要去鼓勵他們要提出嘛對不對當然而且我們現在其實在甚至檢討因為過去其實是要透過僱主才能夠申請我們現在新的設計勞工直接就可以申請不然你能不能直接導入我150家目前\n提出是幾家啦 簡單就好這兩個計畫 充電站目前是七家七家 七家這樣不到一趴多 對啊僱用呢 僱用安定措施\n顧問安定措施現在是大概30家30家兩成多合理嗎合不合理嗎我們確實覺得要再提高所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計我們自己包括勞動部跟地方政府我們會主動的來聯繫已經放這個減班休息的勞工你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力\n我自己覺得當很多的雇主他聽完完整的了解我們計劃的設計以後他們是覺得這是不錯的有吸引力的可是確實現在是有很多的企業他對我們相關的企業聽完之後覺得有吸引力然後又不提出然後提出又是一層多有一些聽完他就有來表達155家目前為止執行有聽完的幾家\n我們其實都沒有主動聯繫啦沒有主動聯繫不然你怎麼會講說有幾家聽起來覺得還不錯是幾家嘛我們一個電台資料基本上要有個基本的數額嘛對不對155家如果是有一家兩家聽到覺得還不錯這兩家又不提出來那這真的還不錯了\n監察院這個報告裡面這當然不是新的署長的任內也不是部長任內\n老化署青年自來發展中心運作長達12年能為訂定服務基線均與產出型指標衡量績效至達成旅超標200%甚至破千以上能夠提升青年就業資成效為敏因為優先對就業不利的青年族群建構差異性自來輔導模式服務內容高度重疊交易部門導致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資已發展\n我要一次講這兩件事情啦這是監察院剛剛糾正的5月21號糾正的沒有錯嘛對不對好那我再回歸到頭這裡面還有很多洋洋灑灑寫的一大堆東西啦齁我再回歸到頭就是說你的充電債出發你的職癌你的僱用安定措施到底陳如妮說的好不好用聽了大家都覺得還不錯但是大家都不提出申請還是提出申請的比例非常低\n應該就是有檢討的必要的空間了嘛對不對對當然當然都有精進的空間\n什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成 提出修正相關的計畫因為7月8號快到了到時候還是這個計畫一層多 那個計畫兩層多根本說明關於充電災出發的部分我們其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式我們會直接聯繫這個勞工本人不一定非得要透過僱主\n因為過去就是僱主他覺得他他沒有意願可是這可能會影響了勞工來舉舉的自願的權利變化就是說原有僱主提出申請現在勞工可以提出申請嘛對不對好這個應變的措施我OK我接受但是實質的內容\n真的有幫助嗎真的覺得不錯嗎還是部長你個人認為不錯他其實能夠獲得的訓練的津貼那其實是對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的我們就要檢視現在才六月初而已嘛我們六月底來檢視嘛反正我們這是研會到七月底了呀對不對這一個月內如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法因為一個一成多實在很難去幫你訂這個KPI啦你都沒有辦法超過五成\n那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正?要不要?\n要不要?我們會強化的來執行但是你不能逼人家執行啊你不能在我那邊說大家聽起來都不錯啊但是我們就不要申請啊結果你如果說我怎樣怎樣他就給你打出來申請結果那個還是假的就像監察院糾正的狀況狀況的事情會持續發生我不好意思再唸下去的這幾項再唸下去真的這個老花鼠新來的署長可能你要有相關的因應作為\n因為監察院已經提出糾正你不要未來又這兩個計畫又被糾正不好我只是提醒一個月內相關的調整計畫成立委員會然後提高申請的比例當然破50%OK謝謝好 謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位辛苦了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.170\n請部長謝謝請部長上來\n\n00:05.219 --> 00:29.957\n根據勞金局公布的最新資料目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億在今年美國對等關稅影響下已經虧損了將近一千九百多億如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金還有這個農民的退休基金應該是總虧損高達兩千多億然後民間有個說法就是說平均每年賠一萬多\n\n00:31.078 --> 00:51.183\n你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎如果不正確請趕快跟證說明清楚我想這個說法當然是不對的勞工朋友提繳的年金那是絕對不會減少的尤其是像在我們勞退機制裡面其實就有保障的收益制度雖然看起來\n\n00:52.384 --> 01:06.259\n這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益\n\n01:06.980 --> 01:32.845\n那這是勞退的部分那勞保的部分我們是確定給複製所以基金收益的波動是不會影響到勞保給付的金額我想這部分是我們一定會來跟社會來講清楚剛剛委員在講說市面上面在流傳的這個說法我想它是不正確的對啊所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是\n\n01:34.705 --> 01:50.454\n實在是有在勞動民心我覺得是很不正確原本投資是有起有落那我們有設定所謂的保障機制基本上就不可能有這種事情發生所以這必須要盡快的說明清楚是其一但是美國關稅90天期間將至在7月8號前或許我們會朝向\n\n01:57.077 --> 02:19.383\n好的方向去發展也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展萊頓部這邊針對相關的基金運用上有沒有什麼因應的作為跟基本的方針因為當川普大力宣布這樣的事情的情況之下確實造成很大的市場上的波動那我們現在不曉得萊頓部的因應作為是什麼\n\n02:20.660 --> 02:43.602\n我想因為現在台灣的我們的國家的談判團隊正在跟美國在做這個關稅的談判但是我想勞動部有可能就像剛剛文說有可能比較好往好的狀況方也有可能往比較這個嚴峻的狀況那從勞動部角度我們當然一定會把情境設定是比較嚴峻的狀況來去做相關的準備\n\n02:44.022 --> 03:12.359\n因為如果嚴峻的狀況你過得了的話好的狀況其實當然就也比較能夠過所以我們包括現在在這個現在的這個特別條例裡面其實已經有規劃了150億的這個經費那如果150億來協助來支持我們勞動朋友度過關稅的這樣子的衝擊還不夠的話其實我們也還有包括我們的救保或者是救安的基金其實可以來支應不是不是不是部長我的問題focus是在這個\n\n03:14.040 --> 03:35.465\n勞動基金的運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針然後避免這樣的這個基金的虧損持續擴大對不對跟委員報告我們勞動基金的運用我們一向就是從長期來看市場的波動一定有我當然說是從長期來看啦不是看短暫的這個我非常清楚嘛對不對但是因為\n\n03:36.545 --> 04:00.555\n因為川普大帝的這樣的一個震撼力有時候真的你必須要去有一些具體的因應方針來做處理我們會持續關我們一向本來就是會關注市場的變化隨時來調整那在市場整個大跌的時候我們的基金的運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出認賠出來這個反而對我們基金不利\n\n04:04.577 --> 04:14.402\n那我要補充說明你要不要出言你不用在委會講你只要跟我講說因為這個美國對你關稅而且7月8日到期有沒有任何的你們有評估過的相關研擬的具體方針\n\n04:17.878 --> 04:38.669\n可以來做這樣的較好的營運避免基金的虧損擴大就這樣而已委員跟您報告這個投資本來每天就要看市場所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略我們基本上我們每年有一個大策略但是我們每季也有我們隨時都在\n\n04:40.370 --> 04:59.586\n你們每年都有大策略我知道但是你們每年大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的死難嘛所以他是一個很突破狀況他是一個很不確定的狀況他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的一個狀態情況之下劉謙許有沒有相關的因應的具體方針這樣就好了啦你簡單回應我就好了好不好\n\n05:01.130 --> 05:19.609\n有沒有啦有有好謝謝這樣就好了不要再講下去了對你又說到時候是因為你的一些講話造成一些波動這樣不好對不對好那我們接著請請我回報請部長你再看一下因為是受到美國人關稅這樣的一個影響嘛目前這個全台實務薪假\n\n05:20.089 --> 05:31.576\n已經達到155家所以影響的勞工高達2800多人無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題未來七八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報我們不能去預估\n\n05:34.960 --> 05:59.069\n未來這幾個月到底可能會有在多少家提出來然後我們針對這幾家可能受到衝擊是怎麼樣有沒有去做相關的一些預估各位報告其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注現在這個我們會講減班休息因為它並不是真的無薪OK對那這個減班休息的加速那確實現在是大概其實是有微幅的緩步的上升\n\n05:59.989 --> 06:24.817\n那但是17月8號之後會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊這個影響會不會更大我們現在其實我們也做好相關的準備了這個準備其實就包括我們的僱用安定措施包括我們這個充電再觸發的措施都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話怎麼樣來支持我們可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的這個減損那我們怎麼樣來協助\n\n06:27.578 --> 06:54.790\n所以這幾個我們都做包括剛才在講到就是說透過特別條例的150億那也包括我們的救保的基金其實就是來做這方面的因應好我只是要提醒部長因為我還是特別強調剛剛上個題目問題是一樣的因為你面對川普的狀況很多事情你是很難預估的然後我們或許跟美國談的後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展那有些事情就一定能解嘛那萬一不是呢相反之\n\n06:55.450 --> 07:13.219\n那勞動部可能要辦起更重大的這樣的一個應變的能力跟責任嘛現在確實減班休息裡面目前看起來是在比較多那有幾個特定的產業其實增加的幅度會多一點可是我們其實很密切在監測也主動的跟這些相關的工會或者產業在做座談來提供我們協助我知道你都有在做啦\n\n07:13.339 --> 07:42.091\n不過我是針對點的這一個現在我們遇到這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣那如果我用兩千零八兩千我還下了對比當時全國持是無薪假高達五百八十幾家啦受到影響的勞工將近快到二十四萬嘛對不對那我們我們新任的調兵師我們黃師長宋永是這麼講嘛齁目前對等對美的這個對等關稅能有高度的不確定性台灣也正與美國談判中政府採取謹慎態度密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況\n\n07:43.451 --> 08:05.203\n會主動聯繫通報事業單位進行輔導方式提供勞動部勞動力發展署如充電載出發訓練計畫僱用安定措施等支援以保障勞工權利對不對OK沒問題我請教一下目前155家有提出充電載出發訓練計畫還有僱用安定措施有幾家\n\n08:06.567 --> 08:33.049\n現在是比較少的目前有提出為什麼會比較少因為不好用因為不知道怎麼用應該是確實有些僱主我們其實有問他說你要不要提出比方說充電材出發可是僱主目前是說他沒有意願你們要去鼓勵他們要提出嘛對不對當然而且我們現在其實在甚至檢討因為過去其實是要透過僱主才能夠申請我們現在新的設計勞工直接就可以申請不然你能不能直接導入我150家目前\n\n08:33.729 --> 08:43.877\n提出是幾家啦簡單就好這兩個計畫充電站目前是七家七家七家這樣不到一趴多對啊僱用呢僱用安定措施\n\n08:44.799 --> 09:09.162\n顧問安定措施現在是大概30家30家兩成多合理嗎合不合理嗎我們確實覺得要再提高所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計我們自己包括勞動部跟地方政府我們會主動的來聯繫已經放這個減班休息的勞工你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力\n\n09:13.260 --> 09:32.106\n我自己覺得當很多的雇主他聽完完整的了解我們計劃的設計以後他們是覺得這是不錯的有吸引力的可是確實現在是有很多的企業他對我們相關的企業聽完之後覺得有吸引力然後又不提出然後提出又是一層多有一些聽完他就有來表達155家目前為止執行有聽完的幾家\n\n09:36.221 --> 09:53.251\n我們其實都沒有主動聯繫啦沒有主動聯繫不然你怎麼會講說有幾家聽起來覺得還不錯是幾家嘛我們一個電台資料基本上要有個基本的數額嘛對不對155家如果是有一家兩家聽到覺得還不錯這兩家又不提出來那這真的還不錯了\n\n09:57.765 --> 10:00.752\n監察院這個報告裡面這當然不是新的署長的任內也不是部長任內\n\n10:08.601 --> 10:33.407\n老化署青年自來發展中心運作長達12年能為訂定服務基線均與產出型指標衡量績效至達成旅超標200%甚至破千以上能夠提升青年就業資成效為敏因為優先對就業不利的青年族群建構差異性自來輔導模式服務內容高度重疊交易部門導致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資已發展\n\n10:38.428 --> 11:05.095\n我要一次講這兩件事情啦這是監察院剛剛糾正的5月21號糾正的沒有錯嘛對不對好那我再回歸到頭這裡面還有很多洋洋灑灑寫的一大堆東西啦齁我再回歸到頭就是說你的充電債出發你的職癌你的僱用安定措施到底陳如妮說的好不好用聽了大家都覺得還不錯但是大家都不提出申請還是提出申請的比例非常低\n\n11:06.994 --> 11:11.481\n應該就是有檢討的必要的空間了嘛對不對對當然當然都有精進的空間\n\n11:14.338 --> 11:38.134\n什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成提出修正相關的計畫因為7月8號快到了到時候還是這個計畫一層多那個計畫兩層多根本說明關於充電災出發的部分我們其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式我們會直接聯繫這個勞工本人不一定非得要透過僱主\n\n11:38.954 --> 11:52.875\n因為過去就是僱主他覺得他他沒有意願可是這可能會影響了勞工來舉舉的自願的權利變化就是說原有僱主提出申請現在勞工可以提出申請嘛對不對好這個應變的措施我OK我接受但是實質的內容\n\n11:55.461 --> 12:18.096\n真的有幫助嗎真的覺得不錯嗎還是部長你個人認為不錯他其實能夠獲得的訓練的津貼那其實是對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的我們就要檢視現在才六月初而已嘛我們六月底來檢視嘛反正我們這是研會到七月底了呀對不對這一個月內如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法因為一個一成多實在很難去幫你訂這個KPI啦你都沒有辦法超過五成\n\n12:25.970 --> 12:29.169\n那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正?要不要?\n\n12:30.356 --> 12:57.631\n要不要?我們會強化的來執行但是你不能逼人家執行啊你不能在我那邊說大家聽起來都不錯啊但是我們就不要申請啊結果你如果說我怎樣怎樣他就給你打出來申請結果那個還是假的就像監察院糾正的狀況狀況的事情會持續發生我不好意思再唸下去的這幾項再唸下去真的這個老花鼠新來的署長可能你要有相關的因應作為\n\n12:59.144 --> 13:16.936\n因為監察院已經提出糾正你不要未來又這兩個計畫又被糾正不好我只是提醒一個月內相關的調整計畫成立委員會然後提高申請的比例當然破50%OK謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位辛苦了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.17,"text":"請部長謝謝請部長上來"},{"start":5.219,"end":29.957,"text":"根據勞金局公布的最新資料目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億在今年美國對等關稅影響下已經虧損了將近一千九百多億如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金還有這個農民的退休基金應該是總虧損高達兩千多億然後民間有個說法就是說平均每年賠一萬多"},{"start":31.078,"end":51.183,"text":"你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎如果不正確請趕快跟證說明清楚我想這個說法當然是不對的勞工朋友提繳的年金那是絕對不會減少的尤其是像在我們勞退機制裡面其實就有保障的收益制度雖然看起來"},{"start":52.384,"end":66.259,"text":"這過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因所以它在收益上面是有些波動但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面其實是有確保其實累積的收益一定會是不低於銀行兩年期定存利率的保障收益"},{"start":66.98,"end":92.845,"text":"那這是勞退的部分 那勞保的部分我們是確定給複製所以基金收益的波動是不會影響到勞保給付的金額我想這部分是我們一定會來跟社會來講清楚剛剛委員在講說市面上面在流傳的這個說法我想它是不正確的對啊 所以你們就是站在勞動部的這個立場一定要儘早把這事情說明清楚不然好像2000多一起處理2300萬人平均每一個人要賠1萬多這種算法實在是"},{"start":94.705,"end":110.454,"text":"實在是有在勞動民心我覺得是很不正確原本投資是有起有落那我們有設定所謂的保障機制基本上就不可能有這種事情發生所以這必須要盡快的說明清楚是其一但是美國關稅90天期間將至在7月8號前或許我們會朝向"},{"start":117.077,"end":139.383,"text":"好的方向去發展也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展萊頓部這邊針對相關的基金運用上有沒有什麼因應的作為跟基本的方針因為當川普大力宣布這樣的事情的情況之下確實造成很大的市場上的波動那我們現在不曉得萊頓部的因應作為是什麼"},{"start":140.66,"end":163.602,"text":"我想因為現在台灣的我們的國家的談判團隊正在跟美國在做這個關稅的談判但是我想勞動部有可能就像剛剛文說有可能比較好往好的狀況方也有可能往比較這個嚴峻的狀況那從勞動部角度我們當然一定會把情境設定是比較嚴峻的狀況來去做相關的準備"},{"start":164.022,"end":192.359,"text":"因為如果嚴峻的狀況你過得了的話好的狀況其實當然就也比較能夠過所以我們包括現在在這個現在的這個特別條例裡面其實已經有規劃了150億的這個經費那如果150億來協助來支持我們勞動朋友度過關稅的這樣子的衝擊還不夠的話其實我們也還有包括我們的救保或者是救安的基金其實可以來支應不是不是不是部長我的問題focus是在這個"},{"start":194.04,"end":215.465,"text":"勞動基金的運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針然後避免這樣的這個基金的虧損持續擴大對不對跟委員報告我們勞動基金的運用我們一向就是從長期來看市場的波動一定有我當然說是從長期來看啦不是看短暫的這個我非常清楚嘛對不對但是因為"},{"start":216.545,"end":240.555,"text":"因為川普大帝的這樣的一個震撼力有時候真的你必須要去有一些具體的因應方針來做處理我們會持續關我們一向本來就是會關注市場的變化隨時來調整那在市場整個大跌的時候我們的基金的運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出認賠出來這個反而對我們基金不利"},{"start":244.577,"end":254.402,"text":"那我要補充說明 你要不要出言你不用在委會講你只要跟我講說因為這個美國對你關稅而且7月8日到期有沒有任何的你們有評估過的相關研擬的具體方針"},{"start":257.878,"end":278.669,"text":"可以來做這樣的較好的營運 避免基金的虧損擴大 就這樣而已委員跟您報告 這個投資本來每天就要看市場所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略我們基本上我們每年有一個大策略但是我們每季也有 我們隨時都在"},{"start":280.37,"end":299.586,"text":"你們每年都有大策略我知道但是你們每年大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的死難嘛所以他是一個很突破狀況他是一個很不確定的狀況他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的一個狀態情況之下劉謙許有沒有相關的因應的具體方針這樣就好了啦你簡單回應我就好了好不好"},{"start":301.13,"end":319.609,"text":"有沒有啦有有好謝謝這樣就好了不要再講下去了對你又說到時候是因為你的一些講話造成一些波動這樣不好對不對好那我們接著請請我回報請部長你再看一下因為是受到美國人關稅這樣的一個影響嘛目前這個全台實務薪假"},{"start":320.089,"end":331.576,"text":"已經達到155家所以影響的勞工高達2800多人無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題未來七八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報我們不能去預估"},{"start":334.96,"end":359.069,"text":"未來這幾個月到底可能會有在多少家提出來然後我們針對這幾家可能受到衝擊是怎麼樣有沒有去做相關的一些預估各位報告其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注現在這個我們會講減班休息因為它並不是真的無薪OK對那這個減班休息的加速那確實現在是大概其實是有微幅的緩步的上升"},{"start":359.989,"end":384.817,"text":"那但是17月8號之後會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊這個影響會不會更大我們現在其實我們也做好相關的準備了這個準備其實就包括我們的僱用安定措施包括我們這個充電再觸發的措施都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話怎麼樣來支持我們可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的這個減損那我們怎麼樣來協助"},{"start":387.578,"end":414.79,"text":"所以這幾個我們都做包括剛才在講到就是說透過特別條例的150億那也包括我們的救保的基金其實就是來做這方面的因應好 我只是要提醒部長因為我還是特別強調剛剛上個題目問題是一樣的因為你面對川普的狀況很多事情你是很難預估的然後我們或許跟美國談的後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展那有些事情就一定能解嘛那萬一不是呢 相反之"},{"start":415.45,"end":433.219,"text":"那勞動部可能要辦起更重大的這樣的一個應變的能力跟責任嘛現在確實減班休息裡面目前看起來是在比較多那有幾個特定的產業其實增加的幅度會多一點可是我們其實很密切在監測也主動的跟這些相關的工會或者產業在做座談來提供我們協助我知道你都有在做啦"},{"start":433.339,"end":462.091,"text":"不過我是針對點的這一個現在我們遇到這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣那如果我用兩千零八兩千我還下了對比當時全國持是無薪假高達五百八十幾家啦受到影響的勞工將近快到二十四萬嘛對不對那我們我們新任的調兵師我們黃師長宋永是這麼講嘛齁目前對等對美的這個對等關稅能有高度的不確定性台灣也正與美國談判中政府採取謹慎態度密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況"},{"start":463.451,"end":485.203,"text":"會主動聯繫通報事業單位進行輔導方式提供勞動部勞動力發展署如充電載出發訓練計畫僱用安定措施等支援以保障勞工權利對不對OK沒問題我請教一下目前155家有提出充電載出發訓練計畫還有僱用安定措施有幾家"},{"start":486.567,"end":513.049,"text":"現在是比較少的 目前有提出為什麼會比較少因為不好用因為不知道怎麼用應該是確實有些僱主我們其實有問他說你要不要提出比方說充電材出發可是僱主目前是說他沒有意願你們要去鼓勵他們要提出嘛對不對當然而且我們現在其實在甚至檢討因為過去其實是要透過僱主才能夠申請我們現在新的設計勞工直接就可以申請不然你能不能直接導入我150家目前"},{"start":513.729,"end":523.877,"text":"提出是幾家啦 簡單就好這兩個計畫 充電站目前是七家七家 七家這樣不到一趴多 對啊僱用呢 僱用安定措施"},{"start":524.799,"end":549.162,"text":"顧問安定措施現在是大概30家30家兩成多合理嗎合不合理嗎我們確實覺得要再提高所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計我們自己包括勞動部跟地方政府我們會主動的來聯繫已經放這個減班休息的勞工你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力"},{"start":553.26,"end":572.106,"text":"我自己覺得當很多的雇主他聽完完整的了解我們計劃的設計以後他們是覺得這是不錯的有吸引力的可是確實現在是有很多的企業他對我們相關的企業聽完之後覺得有吸引力然後又不提出然後提出又是一層多有一些聽完他就有來表達155家目前為止執行有聽完的幾家"},{"start":576.221,"end":593.251,"text":"我們其實都沒有主動聯繫啦沒有主動聯繫不然你怎麼會講說有幾家聽起來覺得還不錯是幾家嘛我們一個電台資料基本上要有個基本的數額嘛對不對155家如果是有一家兩家聽到覺得還不錯這兩家又不提出來那這真的還不錯了"},{"start":597.765,"end":600.752,"text":"監察院這個報告裡面這當然不是新的署長的任內也不是部長任內"},{"start":608.601,"end":633.407,"text":"老化署青年自來發展中心運作長達12年能為訂定服務基線均與產出型指標衡量績效至達成旅超標200%甚至破千以上能夠提升青年就業資成效為敏因為優先對就業不利的青年族群建構差異性自來輔導模式服務內容高度重疊交易部門導致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資已發展"},{"start":638.428,"end":665.095,"text":"我要一次講這兩件事情啦這是監察院剛剛糾正的5月21號糾正的沒有錯嘛對不對好那我再回歸到頭這裡面還有很多洋洋灑灑寫的一大堆東西啦齁我再回歸到頭就是說你的充電債出發你的職癌你的僱用安定措施到底陳如妮說的好不好用聽了大家都覺得還不錯但是大家都不提出申請還是提出申請的比例非常低"},{"start":666.994,"end":671.481,"text":"應該就是有檢討的必要的空間了嘛對不對對當然當然都有精進的空間"},{"start":674.338,"end":698.134,"text":"什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成 提出修正相關的計畫因為7月8號快到了到時候還是這個計畫一層多 那個計畫兩層多根本說明關於充電災出發的部分我們其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式我們會直接聯繫這個勞工本人不一定非得要透過僱主"},{"start":698.954,"end":712.875,"text":"因為過去就是僱主他覺得他他沒有意願可是這可能會影響了勞工來舉舉的自願的權利變化就是說原有僱主提出申請現在勞工可以提出申請嘛對不對好這個應變的措施我OK我接受但是實質的內容"},{"start":715.461,"end":738.096,"text":"真的有幫助嗎真的覺得不錯嗎還是部長你個人認為不錯他其實能夠獲得的訓練的津貼那其實是對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的我們就要檢視現在才六月初而已嘛我們六月底來檢視嘛反正我們這是研會到七月底了呀對不對這一個月內如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法因為一個一成多實在很難去幫你訂這個KPI啦你都沒有辦法超過五成"},{"start":745.97,"end":749.169,"text":"那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正?要不要?"},{"start":750.356,"end":777.631,"text":"要不要?我們會強化的來執行但是你不能逼人家執行啊你不能在我那邊說大家聽起來都不錯啊但是我們就不要申請啊結果你如果說我怎樣怎樣他就給你打出來申請結果那個還是假的就像監察院糾正的狀況狀況的事情會持續發生我不好意思再唸下去的這幾項再唸下去真的這個老花鼠新來的署長可能你要有相關的因應作為"},{"start":779.144,"end":796.936,"text":"因為監察院已經提出糾正你不要未來又這兩個計畫又被糾正不好我只是提醒一個月內相關的調整計畫成立委員會然後提高申請的比例當然破50%OK謝謝好 謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位辛苦了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":321,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（9時43分）謝謝主席。部長就不用再坐下去了，請部長上來。"],["主席：請部長，謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：部長，根據勞金局公布的最新資料，目前勞動基金總規模是七兆一千多億，在今年美國對等關稅影響下，已經虧損了將近一千九百多億，如果再加上委託管理的國民年金保險基金，還有農民的退休基金，總虧損應該高達兩千多億。民間有個說法，就是平均每人賠一萬多，你覺得這樣的說法正確嗎？如果不正確，請趕快更正，說明清楚。"],["洪部長申翰：我想這個說法當然是不對的，勞工朋友提繳的年金，是絕對不會減少的，尤其在我們的勞退機制裡面，其實就有保障的收益制度。過去一段時間因為美國關稅的原因，所以它在收益上面雖然看起來是有些波動，但是我們在這個勞退的保障收益機制裡面，其實是有確保累積的收益一定不會低於銀行兩年期的定存利率，這是勞退的部分。","勞保的部分，我們是確定給付制，所以基金收益的波動不會影響到勞保給付的金額，我想這部分我們一定會跟社會講清楚。至於剛才委員說市面上在流傳的這個說法，我想它是不正確的。"],["劉委員建國：對，所以站在勞動部的立場，你們一定要儘早把這件事情說明清楚。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：不然兩千多億去除以兩千三百萬人，平均每一個人要賠一萬多，這種算法實在是擾動民心，我覺得這是很不正確的。"],["洪部長申翰：是，當然。"],["劉委員建國：原本投資就是有起有落，你們有設定所謂的保障機制，基本上就不可能有這種事情發生。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：所以這必須要儘快說明清楚，這是其一。其二，美國關稅的90天寬期將至，在7月8號前，或許我們會朝向好的方向去發展，也或許會朝向不是好的方向去發展，勞動部這邊針對相關基金的運用有沒有什麼因應作為跟基本方針？因為當川普大帝宣布這個事情之後，確實造成很大的市場波動嘛，我們現在不曉得勞動部的因應作為是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：因為現在我們國家的談判團隊正在跟美國做關稅的談判，就像剛剛委員所說的，有可能往好的狀況發展，也有可能會是比較嚴峻的狀況，從勞動部角度，我們當然一定會把情境設定為比較嚴峻的狀況去做相關的準備，因為如果嚴峻的狀況過得了的話，好的狀況當然也比較能夠過，所以包括在現在的這個特別條例裡面，其實已經有規劃了150億的經費，如果150億來協助、支持我們勞工朋友度過關稅的衝擊還不夠的話，其實我們也還有包括就保或是就安的基金可以來支應。"],["劉委員建國：不是、不是、不是！部長，我的問題是focus在勞金局運用這些相關的基金有沒有一個具體的方針，然後避免基金的虧損持續擴大嘛，對不對？"],["蘇局長郁卿：跟委員報告，我們勞動基金的運用一向就是從長期來看，市場的波動一定有，尤其……"],["劉委員建國：我當然知道是從長期來看，不是看短暫的，這個我非常清楚嘛！但是因為川普大帝這樣的一個震撼力啦，有時候真的你必須要有一些具體的因應方針來做處理。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，我們會持續關注，其實我們本來就會關注市場的變化隨時來調整，在市場大跌的時候，我們的基金運用絕對不會像市場所說的全部殺出、認賠出來，這個反而對我們的基金不利。我要補充說明……"],["劉委員建國：要不要出來你不用在委員會講，你只要跟我講，因應美國對我們的關稅，而且寬限期在7月8號到期，有沒有任何你們有評估過的、相關研擬的具體方針可以來做較好的因應，避免基金的虧損擴大，就這樣而已。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，委員，跟您報告，投資本來就要每天看市場，所以我們內部隨時都在調整我們的策略，基本上我們每年有一個大策略，但是我們隨時都在……"],["劉委員建國：你們每年都有大策略，這個我知道，但是你們每年的大策略沒有包含到川普的這種個性的使然嘛！"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["劉委員建國：他是一個很突發的狀況，他是一個很不確定的狀況，他是一個從頭到尾我們不可預知的狀況，在這樣的情況之下，勞金局有沒有相關因應的具體方針？回答這個就好了啦，你簡單回應我就好，好不好？"],["蘇局長郁卿：跟委員報告……"],["劉委員建國：有沒有啦？"],["蘇局長郁卿：有。"],["劉委員建國：有？好，OK，謝謝，這樣就好了，不要再講下去了。"],["蘇局長郁卿：好，謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：你再說下去，到時候市場因為你的一些講法而造成一些波動，這樣也不好，對不對？好，請回吧。","部長，你再看一下，因為受到美國對等關稅的影響，目前全臺實施無薪假的家數已經達到155家，受影響的勞工人數高達兩千八百多人，無薪假當然是直接影響勞工的大議題，未來七、八個月會不會有更多企業、廠家提出無薪假通報，部裡有沒有去預估未來這幾個月到底可能會有多少家再提出來？你們針對這幾家可能受到的衝擊是怎麼樣？有沒有去做相關的一些預估？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員報告，其實我們一直在密切的監測跟關注這個部分，我們會講減班休息啦，因為他並不是真的無薪。"],["劉委員建國：OK。"],["洪部長申翰：這個減班休息的家數，確實現在是有微幅的緩步上升，但是……"],["劉委員建國：在7月8號之後，會不會原有的直接衝擊變成間接衝擊，這個影響會不會更大？會不會？"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在其實也做好相關的準備了，這個準備就包括我們的僱用安定措施，包括充電再出發的措施，都是如果接下來這個無薪假確實有擴大的話，怎麼樣支持、協助可能會受影響的勞工在收入上面的減損，所以這幾個我們都做，包括剛才講到的透過特別條例的150億，也包括我們的就保基金，其實就是來做這方面的因應。"],["劉委員建國：好，我只是要提醒部長，我還是特別強調，跟剛剛上個題目的問題是一樣的，因為你面對川普的狀況，很多事情是很難預估啦，我們或許跟美國談到後來可能會朝向很好的方向去發展，有些事情就可以迎刃而解嘛，但萬一不是呢？相反之，那勞動部可能要有更重大的應變能力跟責任嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：現在確實減班休息的部分看起來是稍微比較多，有幾個特定的產業增加的幅度會多一點，可是我們很密切在監測，也主動的跟這些相關工會或者產業在做座談，來提供我們的協助。"],["劉委員建國：我知道你都有在做了，不過我針對的是，現在我們遇到的這個狀況真的是跟以前完全不一樣，如果我用2008年的金融海嘯來對比，當時全國實施無薪假的高達五百八十幾家，受到影響的勞工將近快24萬人嘛，對不對？我們新任的條平司黃司長受訪時也是這麼講嘛，他說：目前美對等關稅仍有高度不確定性，臺灣也正與美國談判中，政府會採取謹慎態度，密切掌握通報的事業單位狀況，會主動聯繫通報的事業單位，進行輔導訪視，提供勞動部勞動力發展署如「充電再出發訓練計畫」和「僱用安定措施」等資源，以保障勞工權益。對不對？OK，沒問題。我請教一下，目前155家有提出充電再出發訓練計畫或僱用安定措施的有幾家？"],["洪部長申翰：現在是比較少的，目前有提出……"],["劉委員建國：為什麼會比較少？因為不好用還是不知道怎麼用？"],["洪部長申翰：其實我們有檢討，確實有些雇主，我們其實有問他說要不要提出充電再出發，可是雇主目前是說沒有意願。"],["劉委員建國：你們還去鼓勵他們要提出嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：當然，而且我們現在其實也在檢討，因為過去是要透過雇主才能夠申請，我們現在新的設計是勞工直接就可以申請。"],["劉委員建國：OK。部長，你能不能直接答復我，這155家目前提出的有幾家？簡單就好，這兩個計畫。"],["洪部長申翰：充電再出發目前是7家。"],["劉委員建國：7家，這樣不到一成。"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["劉委員建國：僱用安定措施呢？"],["洪部長申翰：僱用安定措施現在是大概30家。"],["劉委員建國：30家大概二成，合理嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["劉委員建國：合不合理嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：我們確實覺得要再提高，所以這也是為什麼我們現在是設計，我們自己……"],["劉委員建國：你們的計畫是不是有問題？"],["洪部長申翰：包括勞動部跟地方政府，我們會主動的來聯繫已經在減班休息的勞工，不然等……"],["劉委員建國：部長，你們的計畫到底是不是沒有吸引力？"],["洪部長申翰：我自己覺得，當很多的雇主聽完且完整了解我們的計畫設計以後是覺得這是不錯的、有吸引力的，可是確實現在有很多企業對我們相關的計畫跟協助……"],["劉委員建國：聽完之後覺得有吸引力，但是又不提出？提出的還不到一成，你還覺得有吸引力？"],["洪部長申翰：有一些聽完後就有表達提出了。"],["劉委員建國：155家到目前為止，執行有聽完的幾家？這樣來算可能會比較精準。"],["洪部長申翰：我們其實有主動聯繫啦。"],["劉委員建國：有主動聯繫，不然你怎麼會講有幾家聽了之後覺得還不錯，是幾家？我們的data資料基本上要有一個基本數額嘛，對不對？155家中如果只有一家、兩家聽過覺得還不錯，但這一、兩家又不提出來，那這真的還不錯了！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們會再……"],["劉委員建國：監察院的報告，這當然不是新署長的任內，然後也不是部長任內，調查報告提到「勞發署青年職涯發展中心運作長達12年仍未訂定服務基線，均以『產出型』指標衡量績效，致達成率屢超標200%甚至破千以上，能否提升青年就業力之成效未明；又未優先針對就業不利青年族群建構差異化職涯輔導模式，服務內容高度重疊教育部門，致相關經費預算乃至專職專業人力長期低度投資與發展。」我要一次講這兩個事情啦，這是監察院在5月21號提出的糾正，沒有錯嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：好，這個調查報告裡面還有很多，洋洋灑灑寫了一大堆東西，我再回歸到你的充電再出發、你的僱用安定措施到底好不好用？誠如你所說的，聽了之後大家都覺得還不錯，但是大家都不提出申請，還是提出申請的比率非常低？"],["洪部長申翰：應該是說……"],["劉委員建國：這就有檢討的必要空間了嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對，當然都有精進的空間。"],["劉委員建國：什麼時候可以檢討盤整完成，提出相關的修正計畫？因為7月8號快到了，如果到時候這個計畫績效還不到一成、那個計畫二成，這樣緩不濟急嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，關於充電再出發的部分，其實近期我們已經都取得了這些可能放減班休息勞工的聯繫方式，我們會直接聯繫勞工本人，不一定非得要透過雇主，因為過去就是雇主覺得沒有意願，可是這可能會影響勞工取得資源的權利。"],["劉委員建國：你現在只是變化，原來是雇主提出申請，現在勞工也可以提出申請嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：好，這個應變的措施OK，我接受，但是實質的內容真的有幫助嗎？真的覺得不錯嗎？還是部長你個人認為不錯？"],["洪部長申翰：他其實能夠獲得訓練的津貼，那其實是對於……"],["劉委員建國：我們就這樣來檢視嘛。"],["洪部長申翰：對於勞工在收入上面的影響是有幫助的。"],["劉委員建國：部長，我們就來檢視，現在才6月初而已嘛，我們6月底來檢視嘛。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：反正我們這次延會到7月底，對不對？這一個月內，如果這兩個計畫你都沒有辦法……只有一成多，我實在很難去幫你定這個KPI啦……"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：你都沒有辦法超過五成，那你這兩個計畫要不要大幅的去修正，要不要？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會強化的來……"],["劉委員建國：你在委員會做個承諾嘛，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會強化的來執行……"],["劉委員建國：我當然知道你會強化來執行，但是你不能逼人家執行啊！"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["劉委員建國：你不能在委員會說，大家聽了都說不錯啊，但是人家就不申請啊，結果你跟他說我怎樣、怎樣、怎樣，然後就多出好幾個出來申請，結果那個還是假的，就像監察院糾正的事情會持續發生，我不好意思再唸下去了，就是這幾項啦，再唸下去真的……勞發署新來的署長，可能你要有相關的因應作為，因為監察院已經提出糾正，你不要未來這兩個計畫又被糾正，不好，我只是提醒。一個月內相關的調整計畫呈給委員會，然後提高申請的比例……"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["劉委員建國：破百分之五十，OK？謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝主席，謝謝部長，謝謝。各位辛苦了。"],["主席（王委員育敏代）：謝謝劉建國召委。","接下來請陳菁徽委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-15","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","麥玉珍","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","李坤城","楊曜","徐欣瑩","林德福","涂權吉"],"page_start":377,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「勞工退休金制度改革，含勞保、勞退執行現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00007"}}}