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Tahovecahe等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t審查委員黃建賓等16人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t審查委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「建築法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「建築法第六十三條及第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、平均地權條例：\n審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【全案合併詢答；建築法第(十)案如經院會復議則不予審查，建築法第(十一)及(十二)案如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查】【6月4日及5日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T09:22:37+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T09:34:08+08:00","duration":691,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162196","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162196","tool":"pyannote","id":"162196-pyannote"},"job_id":"MvZgrIMTW177nolj","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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\"那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 225.928, \"end\": 226.028, \"score\": 0.571}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.028, \"end\": 226.368, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 226.368, \"end\": 226.508, \"score\": 0.622}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 226.508, \"end\": 226.688, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 226.688, \"end\": 226.809, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 226.809, \"end\": 227.009, \"score\": 0.581}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 227.009, \"end\": 227.169, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 227.169, \"end\": 227.309, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 227.309, \"end\": 227.329, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 227.329, \"end\": 227.589, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 227.589, \"end\": 227.789, \"score\": 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所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 350.865, \"end\": 351.325, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 351.325, \"end\": 351.645, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 351.645, \"end\": 352.065, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 352.065, \"end\": 352.445, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 352.445, \"end\": 352.565, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 352.565, \"end\": 352.765, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"藉\", \"start\": 352.765, \"end\": 352.885, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 352.885, \"end\": 353.026, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 353.026, \"end\": 353.186, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 353.186, \"end\": 353.406, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 353.406, \"end\": 353.966, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 685.309, \"end\": 685.629, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 685.629, \"end\": 685.649, \"score\": 0.267}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 689.384, \"end\": 689.526, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 689.526, \"end\": 689.546, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,700 --> 00:00:06,069\n好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請\n\n2\n00:00:12,718 --> 00:00:38,877\n來部長好部長今天要審查這個建築法剛剛這麼多版本啊可見的我們委員對這個台灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法跟期待那我們作為雙北的委員我們當然也關心不過我是這樣覺得我覺得政策啊想法啊其實如果能夠比較有共識一致的時候大家再來決定到修法那我覺得修法的速度才會快啦\n\n3\n00:00:39,758 --> 00:00:42,239\n不然從修法倒推回來講政策我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識這是我的想法所以我想我今天不就這個建築法各個版本跟部長細究我想要繼續來討論我們關心的這個老宅的問題部長這樣這個問題可以這方向可以\n\n4\n00:01:01,866 --> 00:01:26,227\n好那我想為什麼討論老宅呢是因為我們這個在看到行政院要推出的這個強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性的特別條例中我看到內政部打算匡列三年五十億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫等一下我給你一點點時間喔你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下這是草案嘛還沒有正式推出你們的方向大概如何啊\n\n5\n00:01:27,165 --> 00:01:46,252\n非常謝謝蘇委員我想委員的非常高遠的意見有關老宅的部分我想是這個樣子我們在推動這個很多住宅的興建的時候我們要考慮住在住宅裡面的人尤其我們有發現到說根據內政部的統計資料在北三都的部分\n\n6\n00:01:46,892 --> 00:02:06,008\n很多老人家住在老宅沒錯那因為老人家的部分的話由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助但是如果他的房子本身的延壽也可以列為是一種比較屬於硬體方面的社會福利的協助的話我們很樂意幫忙所以院長他就覺得說那我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看所以我們現在目標大概是以500棟為主500棟對但是500棟\n\n7\n00:02:13,814 --> 00:02:35,812\n一個要務就是說他這個老宅呢必須要有這個防震係數在45不然我們先確認一下您現在講的都還是草案嘛對不對還沒有正式公布就還沒有上路吧草案但是這是方向計劃抱怨就可以了計劃抱怨那位但目前還沒有嘛對不對因為因為預算對啊所以因為你現在跟我們講的是方向嘛我們還有修改的空間好來繼續好好\n\n8\n00:02:37,333 --> 00:03:01,133\n那所以呢我們以這個方向來看就是說後來也發現到說若干的這些營造或者是建築師工業者他們也願意樂意幫忙是為什麼因為很多老宅其實他是健康的但是他只要做在室內裝潢或者是外面的這個防震做得好的話那老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面他有老朋友這個生活圈不容易改變因為我們以往會覺得說\n\n9\n00:03:02,634 --> 00:03:11,079\n老人家如果讓他要住好一點要移到新的部分但是他就喪失原來生活圈的部分所以大部分我們在考量的時候我們也有跟衛福部一起討論也有跟很多團體包括老盟這些團體在推動所以我們認為這個方向是好的我想\n\n10\n00:03:21,464 --> 00:03:43,326\n這個利益大家現在都聽清楚了嘛我想利益良善沒有人會反對甚至是應該表示支持我們台灣的狀況就是這個嬰兒潮的這一代大家認真打拼買了房子但是隨著時間過去人也老了房子也老了但你叫他換新房子坦白講有點難但長輩現在住在所謂的不登公寓也就是四到六層樓這樣的公寓來講其實真的是蠻辛苦的\n\n11\n00:03:45,928 --> 00:03:52,472\n那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦\n\n12\n00:04:12,502 --> 00:04:33,333\n這雖然利益良善不過因為條件限制上面第一你說的是30年以上第二是四到六層樓所以這兩個限制未來都會是就確定是這個方向嗎因為聽到了這個計劃的人坦白講是全社會蠻多的所以他第一他就來問那我七樓呢\n\n13\n00:04:34,573 --> 00:04:58,954\n那我這個有其他的呢這個條件是怎麼定的為什麼是30年以上為什麼是4到6樓還有另外一個是因為你這邊寫的是無耐震疑慮這個大家就有話講了大家就覺得你是不是資源有限的狀況下還是應該要把耐震的部分先放在最前面\n\n14\n00:05:00,115 --> 00:05:20,285\n這才是一個比較好的方式,不然你的回答是什麼?謝謝蘇委員的關心,我想你講到重點了其實有關耐震補強的部分呢,在我們的國土署它是今年累月在推動的所以是已經本來就有計劃嘛,對不對?是本來就有計劃那我們現在考量,就是老宅延壽要推出來的時候因為它涉及到內政部跟衛福部\n\n15\n00:05:20,945 --> 00:05:50,385\n所以現在就是院長他先匡列這50億讓我們來試辦看看如果是好的話要往比較高樓或是有其他的必須要這個老宅延售的方向我們會在不管是公務預算或是基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動因為要修善一個房子不是今天講了明天拿到補助款房子自己就好了因為它有室外的公共空間也有室內的裝潢空間兩邊都要一起完成才是真正達到老宅延售然後照顧老人家的立場\n\n16\n00:05:50,865 --> 00:06:00,047\n好謝謝部長的說明我想藉著今天的這個對答我想大家應該可以更清楚我們耐震補強的計畫過去也有了而且未來還會繼續推因為它到2025年是計畫的最後一期對還會繼續推動還會繼續嘛因為這是公共安全的問題對嘛所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看\n\n17\n00:06:18,131 --> 00:06:21,714\n因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨我們也必須要在這方面做一些社會福利跟無障礙的推動\n\n18\n00:06:42,691 --> 00:06:58,043\n我想我是本席是支持啦尤其是這個長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況政府能夠給予補助或者甚至是引導我相信這個方向是好的所以這個老宅延壽的部分我想本席竟表支持這是第一個部分也是希望\n\n19\n00:06:58,723 --> 00:07:13,580\n好我們也會努力加速啦讓預算可以通過啦這是我們立法院這邊可以做的那另外我想要問一個最後一分鐘的時間我想跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分就是在5月8號的時候我有問過都市更新的審議量\n\n20\n00:07:15,716 --> 00:07:34,188\n我這時候一直有問都市更新其實是各縣市各地方大家都在期待因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動這沒有問題可是我們再再來看都市更新的都市計畫的審議其實\n\n21\n00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:53,460\n坦白講這時間真的是很長啦那我再說一次我們關心的新北的部分我們新北的部分本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始樹林行政園區呢內政部的都委會最後一次的審議是在2023年12月26號至今已經一年半了\n\n22\n00:07:58,066 --> 00:08:20,981\n那他的狀況是現在新北市也同意他要回歸到因為我們有好幾個案所以不如我們就是把第一個送進來的永和行政園區把永和的這一案審出一個結果來變成變成一個通則之後後面新北市的幾個案包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做沒有錯嘛對不對我們已經討論很多次了可是\n\n23\n00:08:26,204 --> 00:08:38,428\n永和行政委員區到底要審到什麼時候呢我覺得我們在這裡利用公開的這個詢答的部分我們把事實再說一次也等一下請國土署這邊可以再回答到底問題在哪裡它第一次送進來永和的行政委員區第一次送進來是2021年12月28日\n\n24\n00:08:46,670 --> 00:08:53,874\n一年之後2023年的1月3號再一次審議兩年之後時隔整整兩年2024年的12月17號是第三次的專業小組會議也是目前本案的最後一次審查那2024的12月17到現在已經又過半年了那他的狀況是在哪裡呢我也給其他新北市的委員們聽聽看嘛這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件啊\n\n25\n00:09:16,261 --> 00:09:28,447\n現在我們到底要怎麼樣到底你可不可以催促他啊因為大家居民都在等你看從2021到現在一共只開過三次會啊每次到底是他補件補得不夠快交件交得不夠好還是我們審查審得不夠好不夠快這個可不可以署長你講一下我們大家一起來推動嘛\n\n26\n00:09:35,330 --> 00:09:56,389\n是跟委員報告其實因為永和行政園區這個案子因為它本身基地周圍的道路比較小但是市府所提出來的又是非常高容積的方案那所以在交通的疑慮還有這個未來執行的可行性上大概小組都有很明確的請他們要\n\n27\n00:09:57,270 --> 00:10:17,788\n要做正確的評估但是我想歷次的我們都是很快就趕快做審查提供給他意見但就像委員所講的我們其實都在等新北市府的補件那只要只是他補件我們就會趕快再開小組趕快做確認那因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的條件當然問題最嚴重應該是永和啦\n\n28\n00:10:18,257 --> 00:10:36,303\n那要用通則到底是中央決定的還是地方要求的應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制也就是它是單純的一個行政機關還是未來還可以做其他高隆基轉做商辦轉做其他住宅的形式的話那這個的確\n\n29\n00:10:37,944 --> 00:10:51,416\n因為五個行政園區都有類似的問題所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向那經過小組審查完大會如果通過那其他的行政園區就比照這樣的一個模式來進行可是你用最難的來設立通則然後最難的要拖很久啊我們簡單的其實是如果不會太難的啊結果我們一直等那個啊不知道等到什麼時候這樣不是等於是我們後面的卡住了嗎\n\n30\n00:10:59,824 --> 00:11:25,649\n是我想如果委員這個意見的話我想我們來跟新北市府討論一下他如果覺得其他的案子相對的困難度沒那麼高的話或許我們可以考慮再是不是再調整好署長因為這個備詢的資訊時間有限我想我們另外再做本案來做討論而且我想其他的新北委員其實也都非常關心因為這其實遍佈整個新北所以我希望你資料準備好我們到辦公室討論一下這樣好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長好\n\n31\n00:11:29,384 --> 00:11:29,546\n謝謝蘇曉慧委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3700\t6069\t好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請\n12718\t38877\t來 部長好部長今天要審查這個建築法剛剛這麼多版本啊可見的我們委員對這個台灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法跟期待那我們作為雙北的委員我們當然也關心不過我是這樣覺得我覺得政策啊想法啊其實如果能夠比較有共識一致的時候大家再來決定到修法那我覺得修法的速度才會快啦\n39758\t42239\t不然從修法倒推回來講政策我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識這是我的想法所以我想我今天不就這個建築法各個版本跟部長細究我想要繼續來討論我們關心的這個老宅的問題部長這樣這個問題可以這方向可以\n61866\t86227\t好那我想為什麼討論老宅呢是因為我們這個在看到行政院要推出的這個強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性的特別條例中我看到內政部打算匡列三年五十億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫等一下我給你一點點時間喔你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下這是草案嘛還沒有正式推出你們的方向大概如何啊\n87165\t106252\t非常謝謝蘇委員我想委員的非常高遠的意見有關老宅的部分我想是這個樣子我們在推動這個很多住宅的興建的時候我們要考慮住在住宅裡面的人尤其我們有發現到說根據內政部的統計資料在北三都的部分\n106892\t126008\t很多老人家住在老宅沒錯那因為老人家的部分的話由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助但是如果他的房子本身的延壽也可以列為是一種比較屬於硬體方面的社會福利的協助的話我們很樂意幫忙所以院長他就覺得說那我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看所以我們現在目標大概是以500棟為主500棟對 但是500棟\n133814\t155812\t一個要務就是說他這個老宅呢必須要有這個防震係數在45不然我們先確認一下您現在講的都還是草案嘛對不對還沒有正式公布就還沒有上路吧草案但是這是方向計劃抱怨就可以了計劃抱怨那位但目前還沒有嘛對不對因為因為預算對啊所以因為你現在跟我們講的是方向嘛我們還有修改的空間好來繼續好好\n157333\t181133\t那所以呢我們以這個方向來看就是說後來也發現到說若干的這些營造或者是建築師工業者他們也願意樂意幫忙是為什麼因為很多老宅其實他是健康的但是他只要做在室內裝潢或者是外面的這個防震做得好的話那老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面他有老朋友這個生活圈不容易改變因為我們以往會覺得說\n182634\t191079\t老人家如果讓他要住好一點要移到新的部分但是他就喪失原來生活圈的部分所以大部分我們在考量的時候我們也有跟衛福部一起討論也有跟很多團體包括老盟這些團體在推動所以我們認為這個方向是好的我想\n201464\t223326\t這個利益大家現在都聽清楚了嘛我想利益良善沒有人會反對甚至是應該表示支持我們台灣的狀況就是這個嬰兒潮的這一代大家認真打拼買了房子但是隨著時間過去人也老了房子也老了但你叫他換新房子坦白講有點難但長輩現在住在所謂的不登公寓也就是四到六層樓這樣的公寓來講其實真的是蠻辛苦的\n225928\t232472\t那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦\n252502\t273333\t這雖然利益良善不過因為條件限制上面第一你說的是30年以上第二是四到六層樓所以這兩個限制未來都會是就確定是這個方向嗎因為聽到了這個計劃的人坦白講是全社會蠻多的所以他第一他就來問那我七樓呢\n274573\t298954\t那我這個有其他的呢這個條件是怎麼定的為什麼是30年以上為什麼是4到6樓還有另外一個是因為你這邊寫的是無耐震疑慮這個大家就有話講了大家就覺得你是不是資源有限的狀況下還是應該要把耐震的部分先放在最前面\n300115\t320285\t這才是一個比較好的方式,不然你的回答是什麼?謝謝蘇委員的關心,我想你講到重點了其實有關耐震補強的部分呢,在我們的國土署它是今年累月在推動的所以是已經本來就有計劃嘛,對不對?是本來就有計劃那我們現在考量,就是老宅延壽要推出來的時候因為它涉及到內政部跟衛福部\n320945\t350385\t所以現在就是院長他先匡列這50億讓我們來試辦看看如果是好的話要往比較高樓或是有其他的必須要這個老宅延售的方向我們會在不管是公務預算或是基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動因為要修善一個房子不是今天講了明天拿到補助款房子自己就好了因為它有室外的公共空間也有室內的裝潢空間兩邊都要一起完成才是真正達到老宅延售然後照顧老人家的立場\n350865\t360047\t好 謝謝部長的說明我想藉著今天的這個對答我想大家應該可以更清楚我們耐震補強的計畫過去也有了而且未來還會繼續推因為它到2025年是計畫的最後一期對 還會繼續推動還會繼續嘛因為這是公共安全的問題對嘛 所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看\n378131\t381714\t因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨我們也必須要在這方面做一些社會福利跟無障礙的推動\n402691\t418043\t我想我是本席是支持啦尤其是這個長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況政府能夠給予補助或者甚至是引導我相信這個方向是好的所以這個老宅延壽的部分我想本席竟表支持這是第一個部分也是希望\n418723\t433580\t好 我們也會努力加速啦讓預算可以通過啦這是我們立法院這邊可以做的那另外我想要問一個最後一分鐘的時間我想跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分就是在5月8號的時候我有問過都市更新的審議量\n435716\t454188\t我這時候一直有問 都市更新其實是各縣市各地方大家都在期待因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動 這沒有問題可是我們再再來看都市更新的都市計畫的審議其實\n456389\t473460\t坦白講這時間真的是很長啦那我再說一次我們關心的新北的部分我們新北的部分本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始樹林行政園區呢內政部的都委會最後一次的審議是在2023年12月26號至今已經一年半了\n478066\t500981\t那他的狀況是現在新北市也同意他要回歸到因為我們有好幾個案所以不如我們就是把第一個送進來的永和行政園區把永和的這一案審出一個結果來變成變成一個通則之後後面新北市的幾個案包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做沒有錯嘛對不對我們已經討論很多次了可是\n506204\t518428\t永和行政委員區到底要審到什麼時候呢我覺得我們在這裡利用公開的這個詢答的部分我們把事實再說一次也等一下請國土署這邊可以再回答到底問題在哪裡它第一次送進來永和的行政委員區第一次送進來是2021年12月28日\n526670\t533874\t一年之後2023年的1月3號再一次審議兩年之後時隔整整兩年2024年的12月17號是第三次的專業小組會議也是目前本案的最後一次審查那2024的12月17到現在已經又過半年了那他的狀況是在哪裡呢我也給其他新北市的委員們聽聽看嘛這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件啊\n556261\t568447\t現在我們到底要怎麼樣到底你可不可以催促他啊因為大家居民都在等你看從2021到現在一共只開過三次會啊 每次到底是他補件補得不夠快交件交得不夠好還是我們審查審得不夠好 不夠快這個可不可以署長你講一下我們大家一起來推動嘛\n575330\t596389\t是跟委員報告其實因為永和行政園區這個案子因為它本身基地周圍的道路比較小但是市府所提出來的又是非常高容積的方案那所以在交通的疑慮還有這個未來執行的可行性上大概小組都有很明確的請他們要\n597270\t617788\t要做正確的評估但是我想歷次的我們都是很快就趕快做審查提供給他意見但就像委員所講的我們其實都在等新北市府的補件那只要只是他補件我們就會趕快再開小組趕快做確認那因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的條件當然問題最嚴重應該是永和啦\n618257\t636303\t那要用通則到底是中央決定的還是地方要求的應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制也就是它是單純的一個行政機關還是未來還可以做其他高隆基轉做商辦轉做其他住宅的形式的話那這個的確\n637944\t651416\t因為五個行政園區都有類似的問題所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向那經過小組審查完大會如果通過那其他的行政園區就比照這樣的一個模式來進行可是你用最難的來設立通則然後最難的要拖很久啊我們簡單的其實是如果不會太難的啊結果我們一直等那個啊不知道等到什麼時候這樣不是等於是我們後面的卡住了嗎\n659824\t685649\t是 我想如果委員這個意見的話我想我們來跟新北市府討論一下他如果覺得其他的案子相對的困難度沒那麼高的話或許我們可以考慮再是不是再調整好 署長 因為這個備詢的資訊時間有限我想我們另外再做本案來做討論而且我想其他的新北委員其實也都非常關心因為這其實遍佈整個新北所以我希望你資料準備好我們到辦公室討論一下這樣好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長好\n689384\t689546\t謝謝蘇曉慧委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請\n來 部長好部長今天要審查這個建築法剛剛這麼多版本啊可見的我們委員對這個台灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法跟期待那我們作為雙北的委員我們當然也關心不過我是這樣覺得我覺得政策啊想法啊其實如果能夠比較有共識一致的時候大家再來決定到修法那我覺得修法的速度才會快啦\n不然從修法倒推回來講政策我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識這是我的想法所以我想我今天不就這個建築法各個版本跟部長細究我想要繼續來討論我們關心的這個老宅的問題部長這樣這個問題可以這方向可以\n好那我想為什麼討論老宅呢是因為我們這個在看到行政院要推出的這個強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性的特別條例中我看到內政部打算匡列三年五十億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫等一下我給你一點點時間喔你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下這是草案嘛還沒有正式推出你們的方向大概如何啊\n非常謝謝蘇委員我想委員的非常高遠的意見有關老宅的部分我想是這個樣子我們在推動這個很多住宅的興建的時候我們要考慮住在住宅裡面的人尤其我們有發現到說根據內政部的統計資料在北三都的部分\n很多老人家住在老宅沒錯那因為老人家的部分的話由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助但是如果他的房子本身的延壽也可以列為是一種比較屬於硬體方面的社會福利的協助的話我們很樂意幫忙所以院長他就覺得說那我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看所以我們現在目標大概是以500棟為主500棟對 但是500棟\n一個要務就是說他這個老宅呢必須要有這個防震係數在45不然我們先確認一下您現在講的都還是草案嘛對不對還沒有正式公布就還沒有上路吧草案但是這是方向計劃抱怨就可以了計劃抱怨那位但目前還沒有嘛對不對因為因為預算對啊所以因為你現在跟我們講的是方向嘛我們還有修改的空間好來繼續好好\n那所以呢我們以這個方向來看就是說後來也發現到說若干的這些營造或者是建築師工業者他們也願意樂意幫忙是為什麼因為很多老宅其實他是健康的但是他只要做在室內裝潢或者是外面的這個防震做得好的話那老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面他有老朋友這個生活圈不容易改變因為我們以往會覺得說\n老人家如果讓他要住好一點要移到新的部分但是他就喪失原來生活圈的部分所以大部分我們在考量的時候我們也有跟衛福部一起討論也有跟很多團體包括老盟這些團體在推動所以我們認為這個方向是好的我想\n這個利益大家現在都聽清楚了嘛我想利益良善沒有人會反對甚至是應該表示支持我們台灣的狀況就是這個嬰兒潮的這一代大家認真打拼買了房子但是隨著時間過去人也老了房子也老了但你叫他換新房子坦白講有點難但長輩現在住在所謂的不登公寓也就是四到六層樓這樣的公寓來講其實真的是蠻辛苦的\n那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦\n這雖然利益良善不過因為條件限制上面第一你說的是30年以上第二是四到六層樓所以這兩個限制未來都會是就確定是這個方向嗎因為聽到了這個計劃的人坦白講是全社會蠻多的所以他第一他就來問那我七樓呢\n那我這個有其他的呢這個條件是怎麼定的為什麼是30年以上為什麼是4到6樓還有另外一個是因為你這邊寫的是無耐震疑慮這個大家就有話講了大家就覺得你是不是資源有限的狀況下還是應該要把耐震的部分先放在最前面\n這才是一個比較好的方式,不然你的回答是什麼?謝謝蘇委員的關心,我想你講到重點了其實有關耐震補強的部分呢,在我們的國土署它是今年累月在推動的所以是已經本來就有計劃嘛,對不對?是本來就有計劃那我們現在考量,就是老宅延壽要推出來的時候因為它涉及到內政部跟衛福部\n所以現在就是院長他先匡列這50億讓我們來試辦看看如果是好的話要往比較高樓或是有其他的必須要這個老宅延售的方向我們會在不管是公務預算或是基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動因為要修善一個房子不是今天講了明天拿到補助款房子自己就好了因為它有室外的公共空間也有室內的裝潢空間兩邊都要一起完成才是真正達到老宅延售然後照顧老人家的立場\n好 謝謝部長的說明我想藉著今天的這個對答我想大家應該可以更清楚我們耐震補強的計畫過去也有了而且未來還會繼續推因為它到2025年是計畫的最後一期對 還會繼續推動還會繼續嘛因為這是公共安全的問題對嘛 所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看\n因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨我們也必須要在這方面做一些社會福利跟無障礙的推動\n我想我是本席是支持啦尤其是這個長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況政府能夠給予補助或者甚至是引導我相信這個方向是好的所以這個老宅延壽的部分我想本席竟表支持這是第一個部分也是希望\n好 我們也會努力加速啦讓預算可以通過啦這是我們立法院這邊可以做的那另外我想要問一個最後一分鐘的時間我想跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分就是在5月8號的時候我有問過都市更新的審議量\n我這時候一直有問 都市更新其實是各縣市各地方大家都在期待因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動 這沒有問題可是我們再再來看都市更新的都市計畫的審議其實\n坦白講這時間真的是很長啦那我再說一次我們關心的新北的部分我們新北的部分本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始樹林行政園區呢內政部的都委會最後一次的審議是在2023年12月26號至今已經一年半了\n那他的狀況是現在新北市也同意他要回歸到因為我們有好幾個案所以不如我們就是把第一個送進來的永和行政園區把永和的這一案審出一個結果來變成變成一個通則之後後面新北市的幾個案包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做沒有錯嘛對不對我們已經討論很多次了可是\n永和行政委員區到底要審到什麼時候呢我覺得我們在這裡利用公開的這個詢答的部分我們把事實再說一次也等一下請國土署這邊可以再回答到底問題在哪裡它第一次送進來永和的行政委員區第一次送進來是2021年12月28日\n一年之後2023年的1月3號再一次審議兩年之後時隔整整兩年2024年的12月17號是第三次的專業小組會議也是目前本案的最後一次審查那2024的12月17到現在已經又過半年了那他的狀況是在哪裡呢我也給其他新北市的委員們聽聽看嘛這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件啊\n現在我們到底要怎麼樣到底你可不可以催促他啊因為大家居民都在等你看從2021到現在一共只開過三次會啊 每次到底是他補件補得不夠快交件交得不夠好還是我們審查審得不夠好 不夠快這個可不可以署長你講一下我們大家一起來推動嘛\n是跟委員報告其實因為永和行政園區這個案子因為它本身基地周圍的道路比較小但是市府所提出來的又是非常高容積的方案那所以在交通的疑慮還有這個未來執行的可行性上大概小組都有很明確的請他們要\n要做正確的評估但是我想歷次的我們都是很快就趕快做審查提供給他意見但就像委員所講的我們其實都在等新北市府的補件那只要只是他補件我們就會趕快再開小組趕快做確認那因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的條件當然問題最嚴重應該是永和啦\n那要用通則到底是中央決定的還是地方要求的應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制也就是它是單純的一個行政機關還是未來還可以做其他高隆基轉做商辦轉做其他住宅的形式的話那這個的確\n因為五個行政園區都有類似的問題所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向那經過小組審查完大會如果通過那其他的行政園區就比照這樣的一個模式來進行可是你用最難的來設立通則然後最難的要拖很久啊我們簡單的其實是如果不會太難的啊結果我們一直等那個啊不知道等到什麼時候這樣不是等於是我們後面的卡住了嗎\n是 我想如果委員這個意見的話我想我們來跟新北市府討論一下他如果覺得其他的案子相對的困難度沒那麼高的話或許我們可以考慮再是不是再調整好 署長 因為這個備詢的資訊時間有限我想我們另外再做本案來做討論而且我想其他的新北委員其實也都非常關心因為這其實遍佈整個新北所以我希望你資料準備好我們到辦公室討論一下這樣好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長好\n謝謝蘇曉慧委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.700 --> 00:06.069\n好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請\n\n00:12.718 --> 00:38.877\n來部長好部長今天要審查這個建築法剛剛這麼多版本啊可見的我們委員對這個台灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法跟期待那我們作為雙北的委員我們當然也關心不過我是這樣覺得我覺得政策啊想法啊其實如果能夠比較有共識一致的時候大家再來決定到修法那我覺得修法的速度才會快啦\n\n00:39.758 --> 00:42.239\n不然從修法倒推回來講政策我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識這是我的想法所以我想我今天不就這個建築法各個版本跟部長細究我想要繼續來討論我們關心的這個老宅的問題部長這樣這個問題可以這方向可以\n\n01:01.866 --> 01:26.227\n好那我想為什麼討論老宅呢是因為我們這個在看到行政院要推出的這個強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性的特別條例中我看到內政部打算匡列三年五十億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫等一下我給你一點點時間喔你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下這是草案嘛還沒有正式推出你們的方向大概如何啊\n\n01:27.165 --> 01:46.252\n非常謝謝蘇委員我想委員的非常高遠的意見有關老宅的部分我想是這個樣子我們在推動這個很多住宅的興建的時候我們要考慮住在住宅裡面的人尤其我們有發現到說根據內政部的統計資料在北三都的部分\n\n01:46.892 --> 02:06.008\n很多老人家住在老宅沒錯那因為老人家的部分的話由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助但是如果他的房子本身的延壽也可以列為是一種比較屬於硬體方面的社會福利的協助的話我們很樂意幫忙所以院長他就覺得說那我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看所以我們現在目標大概是以500棟為主500棟對但是500棟\n\n02:13.814 --> 02:35.812\n一個要務就是說他這個老宅呢必須要有這個防震係數在45不然我們先確認一下您現在講的都還是草案嘛對不對還沒有正式公布就還沒有上路吧草案但是這是方向計劃抱怨就可以了計劃抱怨那位但目前還沒有嘛對不對因為因為預算對啊所以因為你現在跟我們講的是方向嘛我們還有修改的空間好來繼續好好\n\n02:37.333 --> 03:01.133\n那所以呢我們以這個方向來看就是說後來也發現到說若干的這些營造或者是建築師工業者他們也願意樂意幫忙是為什麼因為很多老宅其實他是健康的但是他只要做在室內裝潢或者是外面的這個防震做得好的話那老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面他有老朋友這個生活圈不容易改變因為我們以往會覺得說\n\n03:02.634 --> 03:11.079\n老人家如果讓他要住好一點要移到新的部分但是他就喪失原來生活圈的部分所以大部分我們在考量的時候我們也有跟衛福部一起討論也有跟很多團體包括老盟這些團體在推動所以我們認為這個方向是好的我想\n\n03:21.464 --> 03:43.326\n這個利益大家現在都聽清楚了嘛我想利益良善沒有人會反對甚至是應該表示支持我們台灣的狀況就是這個嬰兒潮的這一代大家認真打拼買了房子但是隨著時間過去人也老了房子也老了但你叫他換新房子坦白講有點難但長輩現在住在所謂的不登公寓也就是四到六層樓這樣的公寓來講其實真的是蠻辛苦的\n\n03:45.928 --> 03:52.472\n那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦\n\n04:12.502 --> 04:33.333\n這雖然利益良善不過因為條件限制上面第一你說的是30年以上第二是四到六層樓所以這兩個限制未來都會是就確定是這個方向嗎因為聽到了這個計劃的人坦白講是全社會蠻多的所以他第一他就來問那我七樓呢\n\n04:34.573 --> 04:58.954\n那我這個有其他的呢這個條件是怎麼定的為什麼是30年以上為什麼是4到6樓還有另外一個是因為你這邊寫的是無耐震疑慮這個大家就有話講了大家就覺得你是不是資源有限的狀況下還是應該要把耐震的部分先放在最前面\n\n05:00.115 --> 05:20.285\n這才是一個比較好的方式,不然你的回答是什麼?謝謝蘇委員的關心,我想你講到重點了其實有關耐震補強的部分呢,在我們的國土署它是今年累月在推動的所以是已經本來就有計劃嘛,對不對?是本來就有計劃那我們現在考量,就是老宅延壽要推出來的時候因為它涉及到內政部跟衛福部\n\n05:20.945 --> 05:50.385\n所以現在就是院長他先匡列這50億讓我們來試辦看看如果是好的話要往比較高樓或是有其他的必須要這個老宅延售的方向我們會在不管是公務預算或是基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動因為要修善一個房子不是今天講了明天拿到補助款房子自己就好了因為它有室外的公共空間也有室內的裝潢空間兩邊都要一起完成才是真正達到老宅延售然後照顧老人家的立場\n\n05:50.865 --> 06:00.047\n好謝謝部長的說明我想藉著今天的這個對答我想大家應該可以更清楚我們耐震補強的計畫過去也有了而且未來還會繼續推因為它到2025年是計畫的最後一期對還會繼續推動還會繼續嘛因為這是公共安全的問題對嘛所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看\n\n06:18.131 --> 06:21.714\n因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨我們也必須要在這方面做一些社會福利跟無障礙的推動\n\n06:42.691 --> 06:58.043\n我想我是本席是支持啦尤其是這個長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況政府能夠給予補助或者甚至是引導我相信這個方向是好的所以這個老宅延壽的部分我想本席竟表支持這是第一個部分也是希望\n\n06:58.723 --> 07:13.580\n好我們也會努力加速啦讓預算可以通過啦這是我們立法院這邊可以做的那另外我想要問一個最後一分鐘的時間我想跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分就是在5月8號的時候我有問過都市更新的審議量\n\n07:15.716 --> 07:34.188\n我這時候一直有問都市更新其實是各縣市各地方大家都在期待因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動這沒有問題可是我們再再來看都市更新的都市計畫的審議其實\n\n07:36.389 --> 07:53.460\n坦白講這時間真的是很長啦那我再說一次我們關心的新北的部分我們新北的部分本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始樹林行政園區呢內政部的都委會最後一次的審議是在2023年12月26號至今已經一年半了\n\n07:58.066 --> 08:20.981\n那他的狀況是現在新北市也同意他要回歸到因為我們有好幾個案所以不如我們就是把第一個送進來的永和行政園區把永和的這一案審出一個結果來變成變成一個通則之後後面新北市的幾個案包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做沒有錯嘛對不對我們已經討論很多次了可是\n\n08:26.204 --> 08:38.428\n永和行政委員區到底要審到什麼時候呢我覺得我們在這裡利用公開的這個詢答的部分我們把事實再說一次也等一下請國土署這邊可以再回答到底問題在哪裡它第一次送進來永和的行政委員區第一次送進來是2021年12月28日\n\n08:46.670 --> 08:53.874\n一年之後2023年的1月3號再一次審議兩年之後時隔整整兩年2024年的12月17號是第三次的專業小組會議也是目前本案的最後一次審查那2024的12月17到現在已經又過半年了那他的狀況是在哪裡呢我也給其他新北市的委員們聽聽看嘛這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件啊\n\n09:16.261 --> 09:28.447\n現在我們到底要怎麼樣到底你可不可以催促他啊因為大家居民都在等你看從2021到現在一共只開過三次會啊每次到底是他補件補得不夠快交件交得不夠好還是我們審查審得不夠好不夠快這個可不可以署長你講一下我們大家一起來推動嘛\n\n09:35.330 --> 09:56.389\n是跟委員報告其實因為永和行政園區這個案子因為它本身基地周圍的道路比較小但是市府所提出來的又是非常高容積的方案那所以在交通的疑慮還有這個未來執行的可行性上大概小組都有很明確的請他們要\n\n09:57.270 --> 10:17.788\n要做正確的評估但是我想歷次的我們都是很快就趕快做審查提供給他意見但就像委員所講的我們其實都在等新北市府的補件那只要只是他補件我們就會趕快再開小組趕快做確認那因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的條件當然問題最嚴重應該是永和啦\n\n10:18.257 --> 10:36.303\n那要用通則到底是中央決定的還是地方要求的應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制也就是它是單純的一個行政機關還是未來還可以做其他高隆基轉做商辦轉做其他住宅的形式的話那這個的確\n\n10:37.944 --> 10:51.416\n因為五個行政園區都有類似的問題所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向那經過小組審查完大會如果通過那其他的行政園區就比照這樣的一個模式來進行可是你用最難的來設立通則然後最難的要拖很久啊我們簡單的其實是如果不會太難的啊結果我們一直等那個啊不知道等到什麼時候這樣不是等於是我們後面的卡住了嗎\n\n10:59.824 --> 11:25.649\n是我想如果委員這個意見的話我想我們來跟新北市府討論一下他如果覺得其他的案子相對的困難度沒那麼高的話或許我們可以考慮再是不是再調整好署長因為這個備詢的資訊時間有限我想我們另外再做本案來做討論而且我想其他的新北委員其實也都非常關心因為這其實遍佈整個新北所以我希望你資料準備好我們到辦公室討論一下這樣好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長好\n\n11:29.384 --> 11:29.546\n謝謝蘇曉慧委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.7,"end":6.069,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請"},{"start":12.718,"end":38.877,"text":"來 部長好部長今天要審查這個建築法剛剛這麼多版本啊可見的我們委員對這個台灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法跟期待那我們作為雙北的委員我們當然也關心不過我是這樣覺得我覺得政策啊想法啊其實如果能夠比較有共識一致的時候大家再來決定到修法那我覺得修法的速度才會快啦"},{"start":39.758,"end":42.239,"text":"不然從修法倒推回來講政策我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識這是我的想法所以我想我今天不就這個建築法各個版本跟部長細究我想要繼續來討論我們關心的這個老宅的問題部長這樣這個問題可以這方向可以"},{"start":61.866,"end":86.227,"text":"好那我想為什麼討論老宅呢是因為我們這個在看到行政院要推出的這個強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性的特別條例中我看到內政部打算匡列三年五十億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫等一下我給你一點點時間喔你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下這是草案嘛還沒有正式推出你們的方向大概如何啊"},{"start":87.165,"end":106.252,"text":"非常謝謝蘇委員我想委員的非常高遠的意見有關老宅的部分我想是這個樣子我們在推動這個很多住宅的興建的時候我們要考慮住在住宅裡面的人尤其我們有發現到說根據內政部的統計資料在北三都的部分"},{"start":106.892,"end":126.008,"text":"很多老人家住在老宅沒錯那因為老人家的部分的話由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助但是如果他的房子本身的延壽也可以列為是一種比較屬於硬體方面的社會福利的協助的話我們很樂意幫忙所以院長他就覺得說那我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看所以我們現在目標大概是以500棟為主500棟對 但是500棟"},{"start":133.814,"end":155.812,"text":"一個要務就是說他這個老宅呢必須要有這個防震係數在45不然我們先確認一下您現在講的都還是草案嘛對不對還沒有正式公布就還沒有上路吧草案但是這是方向計劃抱怨就可以了計劃抱怨那位但目前還沒有嘛對不對因為因為預算對啊所以因為你現在跟我們講的是方向嘛我們還有修改的空間好來繼續好好"},{"start":157.333,"end":181.133,"text":"那所以呢我們以這個方向來看就是說後來也發現到說若干的這些營造或者是建築師工業者他們也願意樂意幫忙是為什麼因為很多老宅其實他是健康的但是他只要做在室內裝潢或者是外面的這個防震做得好的話那老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面他有老朋友這個生活圈不容易改變因為我們以往會覺得說"},{"start":182.634,"end":191.079,"text":"老人家如果讓他要住好一點要移到新的部分但是他就喪失原來生活圈的部分所以大部分我們在考量的時候我們也有跟衛福部一起討論也有跟很多團體包括老盟這些團體在推動所以我們認為這個方向是好的我想"},{"start":201.464,"end":223.326,"text":"這個利益大家現在都聽清楚了嘛我想利益良善沒有人會反對甚至是應該表示支持我們台灣的狀況就是這個嬰兒潮的這一代大家認真打拼買了房子但是隨著時間過去人也老了房子也老了但你叫他換新房子坦白講有點難但長輩現在住在所謂的不登公寓也就是四到六層樓這樣的公寓來講其實真的是蠻辛苦的"},{"start":225.928,"end":232.472,"text":"那我們過去推出了非常多的政策包括輕盈換居啊這個我們的這個社宅的部分輕盈共居的部分那甚至是我們這個包租代管某程度也是希望你把老房子租出來給年輕人住那你就去住在有電梯的房子這也是一種但顯然這個狀況還不夠多所以現在推出了這個老宅修繕的計畫好那我就想請問啦"},{"start":252.502,"end":273.333,"text":"這雖然利益良善不過因為條件限制上面第一你說的是30年以上第二是四到六層樓所以這兩個限制未來都會是就確定是這個方向嗎因為聽到了這個計劃的人坦白講是全社會蠻多的所以他第一他就來問那我七樓呢"},{"start":274.573,"end":298.954,"text":"那我這個有其他的呢這個條件是怎麼定的為什麼是30年以上為什麼是4到6樓還有另外一個是因為你這邊寫的是無耐震疑慮這個大家就有話講了大家就覺得你是不是資源有限的狀況下還是應該要把耐震的部分先放在最前面"},{"start":300.115,"end":320.285,"text":"這才是一個比較好的方式,不然你的回答是什麼?謝謝蘇委員的關心,我想你講到重點了其實有關耐震補強的部分呢,在我們的國土署它是今年累月在推動的所以是已經本來就有計劃嘛,對不對?是本來就有計劃那我們現在考量,就是老宅延壽要推出來的時候因為它涉及到內政部跟衛福部"},{"start":320.945,"end":350.385,"text":"所以現在就是院長他先匡列這50億讓我們來試辦看看如果是好的話要往比較高樓或是有其他的必須要這個老宅延售的方向我們會在不管是公務預算或是基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動因為要修善一個房子不是今天講了明天拿到補助款房子自己就好了因為它有室外的公共空間也有室內的裝潢空間兩邊都要一起完成才是真正達到老宅延售然後照顧老人家的立場"},{"start":350.865,"end":360.047,"text":"好 謝謝部長的說明我想藉著今天的這個對答我想大家應該可以更清楚我們耐震補強的計畫過去也有了而且未來還會繼續推因為它到2025年是計畫的最後一期對 還會繼續推動還會繼續嘛因為這是公共安全的問題對嘛 所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫而且未來也會繼續再推現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫那為什麼是50因為就是試試看嘛所以因為試試看"},{"start":378.131,"end":381.714,"text":"因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨我們也必須要在這方面做一些社會福利跟無障礙的推動"},{"start":402.691,"end":418.043,"text":"我想我是本席是支持啦尤其是這個長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況政府能夠給予補助或者甚至是引導我相信這個方向是好的所以這個老宅延壽的部分我想本席竟表支持這是第一個部分也是希望"},{"start":418.723,"end":433.58,"text":"好 我們也會努力加速啦讓預算可以通過啦這是我們立法院這邊可以做的那另外我想要問一個最後一分鐘的時間我想跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分就是在5月8號的時候我有問過都市更新的審議量"},{"start":435.716,"end":454.188,"text":"我這時候一直有問 都市更新其實是各縣市各地方大家都在期待因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動 這沒有問題可是我們再再來看都市更新的都市計畫的審議其實"},{"start":456.389,"end":473.46,"text":"坦白講這時間真的是很長啦那我再說一次我們關心的新北的部分我們新北的部分本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始樹林行政園區呢內政部的都委會最後一次的審議是在2023年12月26號至今已經一年半了"},{"start":478.066,"end":500.981,"text":"那他的狀況是現在新北市也同意他要回歸到因為我們有好幾個案所以不如我們就是把第一個送進來的永和行政園區把永和的這一案審出一個結果來變成變成一個通則之後後面新北市的幾個案包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做沒有錯嘛對不對我們已經討論很多次了可是"},{"start":506.204,"end":518.428,"text":"永和行政委員區到底要審到什麼時候呢我覺得我們在這裡利用公開的這個詢答的部分我們把事實再說一次也等一下請國土署這邊可以再回答到底問題在哪裡它第一次送進來永和的行政委員區第一次送進來是2021年12月28日"},{"start":526.67,"end":533.874,"text":"一年之後2023年的1月3號再一次審議兩年之後時隔整整兩年2024年的12月17號是第三次的專業小組會議也是目前本案的最後一次審查那2024的12月17到現在已經又過半年了那他的狀況是在哪裡呢我也給其他新北市的委員們聽聽看嘛這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件啊"},{"start":556.261,"end":568.447,"text":"現在我們到底要怎麼樣到底你可不可以催促他啊因為大家居民都在等你看從2021到現在一共只開過三次會啊 每次到底是他補件補得不夠快交件交得不夠好還是我們審查審得不夠好 不夠快這個可不可以署長你講一下我們大家一起來推動嘛"},{"start":575.33,"end":596.389,"text":"是跟委員報告其實因為永和行政園區這個案子因為它本身基地周圍的道路比較小但是市府所提出來的又是非常高容積的方案那所以在交通的疑慮還有這個未來執行的可行性上大概小組都有很明確的請他們要"},{"start":597.27,"end":617.788,"text":"要做正確的評估但是我想歷次的我們都是很快就趕快做審查提供給他意見但就像委員所講的我們其實都在等新北市府的補件那只要只是他補件我們就會趕快再開小組趕快做確認那因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的條件當然問題最嚴重應該是永和啦"},{"start":618.257,"end":636.303,"text":"那要用通則到底是中央決定的還是地方要求的應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制也就是它是單純的一個行政機關還是未來還可以做其他高隆基轉做商辦轉做其他住宅的形式的話那這個的確"},{"start":637.944,"end":651.416,"text":"因為五個行政園區都有類似的問題所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向那經過小組審查完大會如果通過那其他的行政園區就比照這樣的一個模式來進行可是你用最難的來設立通則然後最難的要拖很久啊我們簡單的其實是如果不會太難的啊結果我們一直等那個啊不知道等到什麼時候這樣不是等於是我們後面的卡住了嗎"},{"start":659.824,"end":685.649,"text":"是 我想如果委員這個意見的話我想我們來跟新北市府討論一下他如果覺得其他的案子相對的困難度沒那麼高的話或許我們可以考慮再是不是再調整好 署長 因為這個備詢的資訊時間有限我想我們另外再做本案來做討論而且我想其他的新北委員其實也都非常關心因為這其實遍佈整個新北所以我希望你資料準備好我們到辦公室討論一下這樣好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長好"},{"start":689.384,"end":689.546,"text":"謝謝蘇曉慧委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":208,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時22分）謝謝主席。我們請劉部長。"],["主席：劉部長，有請。"],["劉部長世芳：蘇委員早！"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長好！部長，今天要審查建築法，剛剛看到這麼多版本，可見得委員對臺灣的建築管理有非常非常多不同的想法及期待，我們作為雙北的委員，當然也關心，不過我覺得政策、想法如果能夠比較一致、有共識，大家再來決定修法，修法的速度才會快，不然，從修法倒推回來講政策，我覺得這個方向比較不容易達成共識，這是我的想法。所以我今天不就建築法的各個版本跟部長細究，我想要繼續來討論我們關心的老宅問題，部長，這個問題可以啦！這個方向可以喔！","為什麼討論老宅呢？是因為我們看到行政院要推出的因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例中，內政部打算匡列三年50億的特別預算來推動老宅延壽計畫。部長，我給你一點點時間，你可不可以稍微簡要說明一下，現在這個是草案，還沒有正式推出，你們的方向大概如何？"],["劉部長世芳：非常謝謝蘇委員。委員有關老宅部分的非常高遠意見，我想我們在推動很多住宅興建的時候，要考慮住在住宅裡面的人，尤其我們有發現到，根據內政部的統計資料，在北三都的部分，很多老人家住在老宅……"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒錯。"],["劉部長世芳：老人家的部分，雖然由長照或是其他的社會福利政策是可以協助，但是如果他房子本身的延壽也可以列為一種屬於硬體方面的社會福利協助的話，我們很樂意幫忙，所以院長就覺得我們說不定可以放到特別預算來辦辦看，現在我們的目標大概是以500棟為主……"],["蘇委員巧慧：500棟。"],["劉部長世芳：對，但是500棟的第一個要務就是這個老宅必須要防震係數在45……"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，我們先確認一下，您現在講的都還是草案，對不對？還沒有上路吧！但是這是方向？"],["劉部長世芳：那是計畫，計畫報院就可以了。"],["蘇委員巧慧：但目前還沒有，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：因為特別預算還沒討論通過。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對，所以你現在跟我們講的是方向，還有修改的空間？"],["劉部長世芳：對，是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，請繼續。"],["劉部長世芳：所以我們以這個方向來看，後來也發現若干的營造或者建築施工業者也樂意幫忙，為什麼？因為很多老宅其實是健康的，只要做室內裝潢或外部的防震做得好的話，老人家住在原來的老舊社區裡面，有老朋友，生活圈不容易改變。我們以往會覺得如果讓老人家住好一點，要移到新的部分，但是他們就喪失原來的生活圈。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對。"],["劉部長世芳：所以大部分我們在考量的時候也有跟衛福部一起討論，也有跟很多團體、包括老盟這些團體在推動，他們認為這個方向是好的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：OK。部長，這個立意大家現在都聽清楚了，我想立意良善，沒有人會反對，甚至應該表示支持。我們臺灣的狀況就是嬰兒潮這一代大家認真打拚、買了房子，但是隨著時間過去，人老了，房子也老了，你叫他換新房子，坦白講有點難，但長輩現在住在所謂的步登公寓，也就是4到6層樓的公寓，其實真的是滿辛苦的。我們過去推出了非常多政策，包括青銀換居、社宅的部分……"],["劉部長世芳：青銀共居。"],["蘇委員巧慧：青銀共居的部分，甚至是包租代管某個程度也是希望把老房子租出來給年輕人住，房東就去住在有電梯的房子，這也是一種，但顯然這個狀況還不夠多，所以現在推出了老宅修繕的計畫，我就想請問，雖然立意良善，不過條件限制上面：第一，你說是30年以上；第二是4到6層樓，所以這兩個限制未來都會確定是這個方向嗎？因為聽到這個計畫的人，坦白講是全社會，滿多人的，所以他們就來問：7樓呢？其他的呢？這個條件是怎麼訂的？為什麼是30年以上？為什麼是4到6樓？還有另外一個是，因為你這邊寫的是「且無耐震疑慮」，這個大家就有話講了，大家就覺得在資源有限的狀況下，是不是應該要把耐震的部分先放在前面，這才是一個比較好的方式？部長，你的回答是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝蘇委員的關心，我想你講到重點了。其實有關耐震補強的部分是我們國土署經年累月在推動的，不管是幾層樓……"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以是本來已經就有的計畫，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對，我們現在考量老宅延壽要推出來的時候，因為涉及到內政部及衛福部，所以現在院長先匡列50億讓我們來試辦看看，如果是好的話，要往比較高樓或是有其他老宅延壽的方向，我們會在不管是公務預算、基金預算或是特別預算再來繼續推動。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好。"],["劉部長世芳：因為要修繕一個房子不是今天講了，明天拿到補助款，房子自己就好了，還要考量有室外的公共空間，也有室內的裝潢空間，兩邊都要一起完成，才是真正達到老宅延壽、照顧老人家的立場。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝部長的說明。我想藉著今天的對答，大家應該可以更清楚，耐震補強的計畫過去就有了，而且未來還會繼續推，因為到2025年是計畫的最後一期……"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：還會繼續吧？"],["劉部長世芳：還會繼續推動。"],["蘇委員巧慧：還會繼續嘛，所以……"],["劉部長世芳：因為這是公共安全的問題。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對嘛，所以耐震補強不但是過去已有的計畫，而且未來也會繼續再推，現在特別條例推出的是一個50年的計畫，為什麼是50？因為就是試試看嘛，而且因為試試看，就要匡列一個範圍……"],["劉部長世芳：50億。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對不起，推出50億的計畫來試試看。在試試看的狀況下，當然有一個條件、範圍先匡住，但如果執行得好的話，其實是可以再擴增的，部長，你今天回答的意思應該是很清楚嘛？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，因為我們因應超高齡的時代來臨，也必須在這方面做一些社會福利及無障礙的推動。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，本席是支持的，尤其長輩如果無力維持屋況的狀況下，政府能夠給予補助、甚至是引導，我相信這個方向是好的，所以老宅延壽的部分，本席敬表支持，這是第一個部分，我們也會努力加速，讓預算可以通過，這是我們立法院這邊可以做的。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員。"],["蘇委員巧慧：另外，最後1分鐘的時間，我想要跟部長請教一下我過去有質詢過的部分，就是在5月8日我有問過都市更新的審議量，我一直有問，都市更新其實是各縣市、各地方大家都在期待的，因為一定是都市更新計畫完成了之後才有後面所有方方面面到你家會受到影響的推動，這沒有問題，可是我們來看都市更新計畫的審議，坦白講時間真的很長。我再說一次我們關心的新北部分，本席特別關心的是從我自己的樹林行政園區開始，內政部都委會最後一次針對樹林行政園區的審議是在2023年12月26日，至今已經一年半了，它的狀況是現在新北市也同意要回歸到……因為有好幾個案，所以不如把第一個送進來的永和行政園區這一案審出一個結果，變成一個通則之後，後面的新北市幾個案，包括永和、土城、樹林、新莊、三重的行政園區就follow這個通則來做，沒有錯嘛，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們已經討論很多次了，可是永和行政園區到底要審到什麼時候呢？我們在這裡利用公開的詢答把事實再說一次，等一下也請國土署可以再回答，看看到底問題在哪裡。永和行政園區第一次送進來的時候是2021年12月28日；1年之後，2023年1月3日再一次審議；2年之後，時隔整整2年，2024年12月17日是第三次的專業小組會議，也是目前本案最後一次審查。2024年12月17日到現在已經又過半年了，它的狀況是在哪裡呢？也給其他新北市委員們聽聽看，這個狀況現在是在等新北市政府補件。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：現在我們到底要怎麼樣？你可不可以催促它啊？因為居民大家都在等，你看，從2021年到現在，一共只開過3次會，到底是它補件補得不夠快、交件交得不夠好，還是我們審查審得不夠好、不夠快？署長，你可不可以講一下？我們大家一起來推動嘛。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實永和行政園區這個案子因為本身基地周圍的道路比較小，但是市府提出來的又是非常高容積的方案，所以在交通的疑慮及未來執行的可行性上，該小組都有很明確地請他們要做正確的評估，我們都是很快就趕快做審查，提供他們意見，但就像委員所講的，我們其實都在等新北市府的補件，只要它補件，我們就會再開小組會議趕快做確認。因為其他幾個行政園區也有類似的案子，當然，問題最嚴重的應該是永和。"],["蘇委員巧慧：那要用通則，到底是中央決定的，還是地方要求的？"],["吳署長欣修：應該是說就幾個行政園區未來處理的機制，也就是它是單純的行政機關，還是未來還可以做其他高容積轉作商辦、轉作其他住宅的形式，因為5個行政園區都有類似的問題，所以我們希望新北市府要確認一個方向，經過小組審查完、大會如果通過，其他的行政園區就比照這樣的模式來進行。"],["蘇委員巧慧：可是你用最難的來設立通則，然後最難的要拖很久，結果我們簡單的、其實不會太難的，一直在等那個，不曉得要等到什麼時候，這樣不是等於我們後面的卡住了嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：是，就委員這個意見，我們來跟新北市府討論一下，它如果覺得其他的案子相對地困難度沒那麼高的話，或許我們可以考慮是不是再調整一下做法。"],["蘇委員巧慧：因為質詢時間有限，我想我們另外再就本案做討論，而且我想其他新北的委員也都非常關心，因為這遍布整個新北，所以我希望你把資料準備好，我們到辦公室討論一下，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝部長，謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","下一位請張智倫委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-24","speakers":["牛煦庭","陳菁徽","顏寬恒","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、建築法：(一)審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「建築法第九十一條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員顏寬恒等21 人擬具「建築法第七十三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 三) 審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃建賓等16\n人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員徐巧芯\n等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第\n九十七條條文修正草案」案、( 七) 審查委員顏寬恒等17 人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草\n案」案、(八)審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案、(九)審查委員\n陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)審查台灣\n民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二、平均地權條\n例：審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145601_00005"}}}