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Tahovecahe等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t審查委員黃建賓等16人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t審查委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「建築法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「建築法第六十三條及第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、平均地權條例：\n審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【全案合併詢答；建築法第(十)案如經院會復議則不予審查，建築法第(十一)及(十二)案如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查】【6月4日及5日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T09:34:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T09:44:24+08:00","duration":610,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162197","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162197","tool":"pyannote","id":"162197-pyannote"},"job_id":"XzkSU0eej1SMSEXs","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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105.656, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.656, \"end\": 106.196, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 106.196, \"end\": 106.336, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 106.336, \"end\": 106.456, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 106.456, \"end\": 106.796, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 106.796, \"end\": 106.916, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 106.916, \"end\": 107.017, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 107.017, \"end\": 107.077, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 107.077, \"end\": 107.297, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 107.297, \"end\": 107.497, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 107.497, \"end\": 107.717, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 107.717, \"end\": 107.937, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 107.937, \"end\": 108.117, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 108.117, \"end\": 108.277, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 108.277, \"end\": 108.437, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 108.437, \"end\": 108.597, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 108.597, \"end\": 108.757, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 108.757, \"end\": 109.078, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 109.078, \"end\": 109.098, \"score\": 0.924}]}, {\"start\": 109.798, \"end\": 137.963, \"text\": \"那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 109.798, \"end\": 109.938, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 109.938, \"end\": 109.998, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 109.998, \"end\": 110.098, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 110.098, \"end\": 110.118, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 110.118, \"end\": 110.158, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 110.158, \"end\": 110.458, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 110.458, \"end\": 110.658, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 110.658, \"end\": 111.938, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 111.938, \"end\": 112.018, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 112.018, \"end\": 112.198, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 112.198, \"end\": 112.338, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 112.338, \"end\": 112.438, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 112.438, \"end\": 112.859, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 112.859, \"end\": 113.299, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 113.299, \"end\": 113.519, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 113.519, \"end\": 113.919, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 113.919, \"end\": 114.119, 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{\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 117.779, \"end\": 118.3, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"徵\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 118.3, \"end\": 118.52, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 118.52, \"end\": 118.82, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 118.82, \"end\": 119.04, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 119.04, \"end\": 119.22, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 119.22, \"end\": 119.4, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 119.4, \"end\": 120.36, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 120.36, \"end\": 120.72, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 120.72, \"end\": 120.98, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 120.98, \"end\": 121.1, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 121.1, \"end\": 121.32, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 121.32, \"end\": 121.38, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 121.38, \"end\": 121.42, 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\"end\": 125.761, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 125.761, \"end\": 125.861, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 125.861, \"end\": 125.981, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 125.981, \"end\": 126.201, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 126.201, \"end\": 126.401, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 126.401, \"end\": 126.541, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 126.541, \"end\": 127.061, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 127.061, \"end\": 127.221, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 127.221, \"end\": 127.381, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 127.381, \"end\": 127.541, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 127.541, \"end\": 127.721, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 127.721, \"end\": 128.261, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 128.261, \"end\": 128.341, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 128.341, \"end\": 128.441, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 128.441, \"end\": 128.581, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 128.581, \"end\": 129.421, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 129.421, \"end\": 129.561, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 129.561, \"end\": 129.662, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 129.662, \"end\": 129.942, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 129.942, \"end\": 130.042, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 130.042, \"end\": 130.122, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 130.122, \"end\": 130.602, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 130.602, \"end\": 130.742, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 130.742, \"end\": 130.842, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 130.842, \"end\": 130.962, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 130.962, \"end\": 131.202, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 131.202, \"end\": 131.702, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 131.702, \"end\": 131.962, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 131.962, \"end\": 132.202, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 132.202, \"end\": 132.362, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 132.362, \"end\": 132.682, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 132.682, \"end\": 133.642, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 133.642, \"end\": 133.762, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 133.762, \"end\": 133.922, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 133.922, \"end\": 134.102, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 134.102, \"end\": 134.262, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 134.262, \"end\": 134.382, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 134.382, \"end\": 134.522, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 134.522, \"end\": 134.762, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 134.762, \"end\": 134.982, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 134.982, \"end\": 135.302, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 135.302, \"end\": 135.463, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 135.463, \"end\": 135.643, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 135.643, \"end\": 135.763, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 135.763, \"end\": 136.063, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 136.063, \"end\": 136.243, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 136.243, \"end\": 136.763, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.763, \"end\": 136.923, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 136.923, \"end\": 137.063, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 137.063, \"end\": 137.443, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 137.443, \"end\": 137.523, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 137.523, \"end\": 137.583, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 137.583, \"end\": 137.703, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 137.703, \"end\": 137.843, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 137.843, \"end\": 137.943, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 137.943, \"end\": 137.963, \"score\": 0.657}]}, {\"start\": 138.703, \"end\": 158.981, \"text\": \"謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 138.703, \"end\": 138.924, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.924, \"end\": 139.284, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 139.284, \"end\": 139.604, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 139.604, \"end\": 139.724, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 139.724, \"end\": 139.844, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 139.844, \"end\": 140.005, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 140.005, \"end\": 140.205, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 140.205, \"end\": 140.525, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 140.525, \"end\": 140.925, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 140.925, \"end\": 141.066, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.066, \"end\": 141.446, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 141.446, \"end\": 141.626, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 141.626, \"end\": 142.026, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 142.026, \"end\": 142.227, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 142.227, \"end\": 142.707, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 142.707, \"end\": 142.947, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 142.947, \"end\": 143.147, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 143.147, \"end\": 143.708, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 143.708, \"end\": 144.288, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 144.288, \"end\": 144.549, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 144.549, \"end\": 144.909, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 144.909, \"end\": 145.449, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 145.449, \"end\": 145.569, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 145.569, \"end\": 145.73, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 145.73, \"end\": 145.87, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 145.87, \"end\": 146.27, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 146.27, \"end\": 146.45, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 146.45, \"end\": 146.63, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 146.63, \"end\": 146.77, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 146.77, \"end\": 147.251, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 147.251, \"end\": 147.391, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 147.391, \"end\": 147.551, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 147.551, \"end\": 147.911, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 147.911, \"end\": 148.512, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 148.512, \"end\": 148.892, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 148.892, \"end\": 149.133, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 149.133, \"end\": 149.313, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 149.313, \"end\": 149.553, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 149.553, \"end\": 149.953, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", 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\"end\": 154.057, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 154.057, \"end\": 154.277, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 154.277, \"end\": 154.457, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 154.457, \"end\": 155.058, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 155.058, \"end\": 155.278, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 155.278, \"end\": 155.658, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 155.658, \"end\": 155.838, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 155.838, \"end\": 156.719, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 156.719, \"end\": 157.24, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 157.24, \"end\": 157.4, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 157.4, \"end\": 157.76, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 157.76, \"end\": 158.2, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 158.2, \"end\": 158.22, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 158.22, \"end\": 158.301, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 158.301, \"end\": 158.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.321, \"end\": 158.421, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 158.421, \"end\": 158.521, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 158.521, \"end\": 158.541, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 158.541, \"end\": 158.701, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 158.701, \"end\": 158.841, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 158.841, \"end\": 158.861, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 158.861, \"end\": 158.961, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.961, \"end\": 158.981, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 162.344, \"end\": 174.498, \"text\": \"那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 162.344, \"end\": 162.965, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 162.965, \"end\": 163.125, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 163.125, \"end\": 163.425, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 163.425, \"end\": 164.386, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 164.386, \"end\": 164.567, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 164.567, \"end\": 164.847, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 164.847, \"end\": 165.047, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 165.047, \"end\": 165.488, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 165.488, \"end\": 165.748, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 165.748, \"end\": 166.609, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", 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{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 172.936, \"end\": 173.096, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 173.096, \"end\": 173.216, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 173.216, \"end\": 173.597, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 173.597, \"end\": 173.737, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 173.737, \"end\": 174.017, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 174.017, \"end\": 174.157, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 174.157, \"end\": 174.338, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 174.338, \"end\": 174.438, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"威\", \"start\": 174.438, \"end\": 174.458, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 174.458, \"end\": 174.478, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 174.478, \"end\": 174.498, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 177.441, \"end\": 192.127, \"text\": 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\"end\": 190.386, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 190.386, \"end\": 190.426, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 190.426, \"end\": 190.586, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 190.586, \"end\": 190.606, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 190.606, \"end\": 190.626, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 190.626, \"end\": 190.646, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 190.646, \"end\": 190.906, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 190.906, \"end\": 190.927, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 190.927, \"end\": 191.027, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 191.027, \"end\": 191.047, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 191.047, \"end\": 191.067, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 191.067, \"end\": 191.687, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 191.687, \"end\": 191.707, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 191.707, \"end\": 191.827, \"score\": 0.575}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 191.827, \"end\": 191.887, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 191.887, \"end\": 191.907, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 191.907, \"end\": 191.927, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 191.927, \"end\": 191.947, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 191.947, \"end\": 191.987, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"搬\", \"start\": 191.987, \"end\": 192.007, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 192.007, \"end\": 192.087, \"score\": 0.32}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 192.087, \"end\": 192.107, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 192.107, \"end\": 192.127, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 207.193, \"end\": 233.428, \"text\": \"就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 207.193, \"end\": 207.293, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 207.293, \"end\": 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0.744}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 602.383, \"end\": 602.464, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 602.464, \"end\": 602.864, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 602.864, \"end\": 602.884, \"score\": 0.076}, {\"word\": \"討\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,793 --> 00:00:07,011\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳劉副長劉副長有請\n\n2\n00:00:12,933 --> 00:00:37,926\n政委早部長好那還是首先第一題請教您一下14題就是有關於這個內政部最近推動全台中正路的改名引發爭議那您也有表示轉型正義是人權問題需要嚴肅對待不管是中央政府或地方政府不要把它當成有錢在推動沒有錢就不推動那您也有表示說不管是改路名還是去除雕像\n\n3\n00:00:38,466 --> 00:00:53,672\n或是去除威權主義的象徵如果遇到困難應該中央地方還有在地居民都有共識再來討論那依據內政部統計其實全台現在有300條中正路而且影響的人數會是上萬甚至數十萬\n\n4\n00:00:54,512 --> 00:01:07,180\n的居民以及商家包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通要跟著變那民眾現在很擔心不管地方政府受到壓力以及民眾會擔心改資料換證件\n\n5\n00:01:09,662 --> 00:01:25,324\n就要花非常多的時間跟金錢的成本那依據現在網路民調統計也請部長參考超過七成的民眾反對改民因為大家認為說其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要\n\n6\n00:01:25,845 --> 00:01:49,098\n因為這些重鎮路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了不會想到是威權的象徵民眾也認為說這樣子改名的話對民生其實沒有很多的幫助以前像道路改名成功的案例像台北的軍公路改成和平東路四段這樣的改名其實也全部歷經了17年那也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持才一步一步的完成\n\n7\n00:01:49,798 --> 00:02:17,963\n那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下\n\n8\n00:02:18,703 --> 00:02:38,981\n謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的\n\n9\n00:02:42,344 --> 00:02:54,498\n那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者\n\n10\n00:02:57,441 --> 00:03:12,127\n現在局限就是蔣中正蔣經國命名的介入名稱這是屬於威權象徵因於改名所以事實上我們是根據這個大院所通過的這個法律來進行的那在進行的過程當中確實沒有錯就是我們有委託這個有一些這個文史團體來幫我們做一下研究它大概有四種不同的程度譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像那可能移除就很快但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走\n\n11\n00:03:27,193 --> 00:03:53,428\n就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府\n\n12\n00:03:54,028 --> 00:03:58,070\n所以地方政府要配合這個所謂的威權這個象徵時代的這個部分呢要這個改名的部分呢其實我們為什麼在新聞稿的時候有講清楚說這是一個法定的任務或者義務啦那法定義務的話就要編列預算那編列預算是可多可少因為看你這個狀況而定因為它不是一個\n\n13\n00:04:17,301 --> 00:04:22,967\n這個累積性的它只是一個特定的這特定時段完成就完成譬如說我們知道台中市改名為台灣大道或者是台南市政府它中正路把它加註有湯德章大道是類似的一個道理那我們都知道在推動的過程當中我都一再強調溝通非常重要\n\n14\n00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:43,804\n這個溝通包括中央政府包括地方政府那包括這個地方上的這個民眾這文史團體那所以我才強調說這個轉型正義這個推動的過程當中要顧慮到轉型正義也要顧慮到程序正義因為我們是一個民主法治的國家內政部也是屬於行政院的這個一個部會而已我們不可能超越法律的授權去處理法律授權以外的東西那但是呢大家都知道\n\n15\n00:05:03,753 --> 00:05:12,938\n對於推動這個改名的過程當中很多人有不同的看法有的人覺得說必須要這個就是威權的象徵那有的人覺得說啊無所謂而且呢他從小到大就在中正路吃麵線或者是吃陽春麵或者是吃外省麵長大的那這些呢都可以列入我們可以一起溝通討論的範圍所以我才強調說轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義然後我們希望這不要造成這個很多的社會對立但是呢\n\n16\n00:05:32,708 --> 00:05:58,562\n不造成社會對立不是表示你講你的我講我的而是說我們能不能溝通如果溝通有共識的話有共識我們就來推動那坦白跟這個委員講就是我們內政部自己民政司在推動有關轉型正義剛好今年的預算在包一大包裡面也是被凍結啦那但是呢我們都知道如果地方政府有需要的話我們會轉到促轉基金來申請相關的基金預算來協助那以上簡單的報告\n\n17\n00:05:59,522 --> 00:06:14,233\n好謝謝部長的解釋我想我剛剛也給部長一個清楚的說明機會希望說未來地方政府在推動的時候也希望說內政部可以來指導一下看地方政府後續要如何去進行也要感受民眾的感受\n\n18\n00:06:16,235 --> 00:06:22,520\n接下來我們要討論今天有關於建築法的一個修法那主要的問題點就是說這是根據建築法的第77條之二規定公共使用的建築物裝修必須使用申請室內裝修許可那必須要張貼在現場才可以施工\n\n19\n00:06:41,098 --> 00:07:05,460\n那這些制度現在目前來看是非常的完整可是實務上常常看到有些商場為了要爭取一些時間未報準就先行動工或是因為他們的想法就是說企圖可以用還沒有這個申請核准就開始施工那創造一些時間差來說短暫停營業的一些損失那我想要請教就是說因為現在有如果一些裝修現場沒有申請沒有張貼也沒有這個消防防護計劃\n\n20\n00:07:08,402 --> 00:07:33,122\n那我們來請教一下因為我們知道說現在裝修的案子在全台灣非常的多那現有的查核的量能我們想應該是相對有點不足啊那我想請教就是說那現有的機制面對這樣的情況的時候要如何來運行是不是說只能依照民眾檢舉啊那是不是說有一些主動申報的查核機制不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢是不是請署長回答\n\n21\n00:07:34,211 --> 00:07:55,958\n感謝委員原來在試裝的試裝辦法裡面本來針對這個要張貼施工的資訊在試裝辦法第29條都已經有明訂了所以在法令上來講因為建築法是母法所以我們在下授在建築屋的部分有建築基礎規則跟試裝的辦法所以詳細的執行\n\n22\n00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:18,038\n細節我們都會定在執法裡面所以這是原來在執法就有第二個就是說當然對於這一個申報開工它是屬於在被查制當然在形式上你如果沒有完成這樣子的話那經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話那當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰\n\n23\n00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:34,095\n那但是就像委員所講的其實現在施工查驗的部分那地方政府其實有些地方政府還是屬於在行政裡面自己會去辦相關的稽查但是也有些縣市政府已經都有委託相關的工會去做稽查\n\n24\n00:08:34,696 --> 00:08:51,140\n那至於這個稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議這部分我們原廠都會尊重地方政府就他的行政機制上要如何來加強那我們會站在監督的立場就是說再跟他們討論看看是否請他們再加強這個稽查的次數好謝謝署長那署長就是說因為現在\n\n25\n00:08:56,261 --> 00:09:15,400\n整個機制來講我們現在有在協助努力不管是地方機場的加強或是請工會來協助那可是我現在比較擔心的是說會不會因為資訊不透明會有一些違法裝修的一些問題那變成說如果以民眾他們有沒有辦法及時查詢相關有沒有在裝修的這些資訊\n\n26\n00:09:16,801 --> 00:09:30,823\n那如果是發生發現的違規行為那是不是有一些可以可以去這個國土署我們辦法設置相關裝修許可的資料的網站讓民眾來查詢而不是大家就是檢舉來的時候沒有一些可以依照的依據\n\n27\n00:09:31,932 --> 00:09:58,357\n感謝委員其實我們陸陸續續現在雖然地方政府自己有的有能力做相關的網站那來揭露但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費是他並沒有揭露相關的這個資訊那這個我想我們來檢討我們署內的這一個健管相關許可的網站來找地方政府來討論看是否一種是鼓勵地方政府設另外一種就集中把這些資訊也集中到我們的網站\n\n28\n00:09:58,737 --> 00:10:02,884\n那我們也來做一些管理我想委員這個建議我們來找地方政委一起來商討\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2793\t7011\t好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員大家早有請劉世芳 劉副長劉副長有請\n12933\t37926\t政委早部長好那還是首先第一題請教您一下14題就是有關於這個內政部最近推動全台中正路的改名引發爭議那您也有表示轉型正義是人權問題需要嚴肅對待不管是中央政府或地方政府不要把它當成有錢在推動沒有錢就不推動那您也有表示說不管是改路名還是去除雕像\n38466\t53672\t或是去除威權主義的象徵如果遇到困難應該中央地方還有在地居民都有共識再來討論那依據內政部統計其實全台現在有300條中正路而且影響的人數會是上萬甚至數十萬\n54512\t67180\t的居民以及商家包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通要跟著變那民眾現在很擔心不管地方政府受到壓力以及民眾會擔心改資料換證件\n69662\t85324\t就要花非常多的時間跟金錢的成本那依據現在網路民調統計也請部長參考超過七成的民眾反對改民因為大家認為說其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要\n85845\t109098\t因為這些重鎮路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了不會想到是威權的象徵民眾也認為說這樣子改名的話對民生其實沒有很多的幫助以前像道路改名成功的案例像台北的軍公路改成和平東路四段這樣的改名其實也全部歷經了17年那也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持才一步一步的完成\n109798\t137963\t那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下\n138703\t158981\t謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的\n162344\t174498\t那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者\n177441\t192127\t現在局限就是蔣中正蔣經國命名的介入名稱這是屬於威權象徵因於改名所以事實上我們是根據這個大院所通過的這個法律來進行的那在進行的過程當中確實沒有錯就是我們有委託這個有一些這個文史團體來幫我們做一下研究它大概有四種不同的程度譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像那可能移除就很快但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走\n207193\t233428\t就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府\n234028\t238070\t所以地方政府要配合這個所謂的威權這個象徵時代的這個部分呢要這個改名的部分呢其實我們為什麼在新聞稿的時候有講清楚說這是一個法定的任務或者義務啦那法定義務的話就要編列預算那編列預算是可多可少因為看你這個狀況而定因為它不是一個\n257301\t262967\t這個累積性的它只是一個特定的這特定時段完成就完成譬如說我們知道台中市改名為台灣大道或者是台南市政府它中正路把它加註有湯德章大道是類似的一個道理那我們都知道在推動的過程當中我都一再強調溝通非常重要\n276820\t283804\t這個溝通包括中央政府包括地方政府那包括這個地方上的這個民眾這文史團體那所以我才強調說這個轉型正義這個推動的過程當中要顧慮到轉型正義也要顧慮到程序正義因為我們是一個民主法治的國家內政部也是屬於行政院的這個一個部會而已我們不可能超越法律的授權去處理法律授權以外的東西那但是呢大家都知道\n303753\t312938\t對於推動這個改名的過程當中很多人有不同的看法有的人覺得說必須要這個就是威權的象徵那有的人覺得說啊無所謂而且呢他從小到大就在中正路吃麵線或者是吃陽春麵或者是吃外省麵長大的那這些呢都可以列入我們可以一起溝通討論的範圍所以我才強調說轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義然後我們希望這不要造成這個很多的社會對立但是呢\n332708\t358562\t不造成社會對立不是表示你講你的我講我的而是說我們能不能溝通如果溝通有共識的話有共識我們就來推動那坦白跟這個委員講就是我們內政部自己民政司在推動有關轉型正義剛好今年的預算在包一大包裡面也是被凍結啦那但是呢我們都知道如果地方政府有需要的話我們會轉到促轉基金來申請相關的基金預算來協助那以上簡單的報告\n359522\t374233\t好 謝謝部長的解釋我想我剛剛也給部長一個清楚的說明機會希望說未來地方政府在推動的時候也希望說內政部可以來指導一下看地方政府後續要如何去進行也要感受民眾的感受\n376235\t382520\t接下來我們要討論今天有關於建築法的一個修法那主要的問題點就是說這是根據建築法的第77條之二規定公共使用的建築物裝修必須使用申請室內裝修許可那必須要張貼在現場才可以施工\n401098\t425460\t那這些制度現在目前來看是非常的完整可是實務上常常看到有些商場為了要爭取一些時間未報準就先行動工或是因為他們的想法就是說企圖可以用還沒有這個申請核准就開始施工那創造一些時間差來說短暫停營業的一些損失那我想要請教就是說因為現在有如果一些裝修現場沒有申請沒有張貼也沒有這個消防防護計劃\n428402\t453122\t那我們來請教一下因為我們知道說現在裝修的案子在全台灣非常的多那現有的查核的量能我們想應該是相對有點不足啊那我想請教就是說那現有的機制面對這樣的情況的時候要如何來運行是不是說只能依照民眾檢舉啊那是不是說有一些主動申報的查核機制不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢是不是請署長回答\n454211\t475958\t感謝委員 原來在試裝的試裝辦法裡面本來針對這個要張貼施工的資訊在試裝辦法第29條都已經有明訂了所以在法令上來講因為建築法是母法所以我們在下授在建築屋的部分有建築基礎規則跟試裝的辦法所以詳細的執行\n479560\t498038\t細節我們都會定在執法裡面所以這是原來在執法就有第二個就是說當然對於這一個申報開工它是屬於在被查制當然在形式上你如果沒有完成這樣子的話那經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話那當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰\n498959\t514095\t那但是就像委員所講的其實現在施工查驗的部分那地方政府其實有些地方政府還是屬於在行政裡面自己會去辦相關的稽查但是也有些縣市政府已經都有委託相關的工會去做稽查\n514696\t531140\t那至於這個稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議這部分我們原廠都會尊重地方政府就他的行政機制上要如何來加強那我們會站在監督的立場就是說再跟他們討論看看是否請他們再加強這個稽查的次數好 謝謝署長那署長就是說因為現在\n536261\t555400\t整個機制來講我們現在有在協助努力不管是地方機場的加強或是請工會來協助那可是我現在比較擔心的是說會不會因為資訊不透明會有一些違法裝修的一些問題那變成說如果以民眾他們有沒有辦法及時查詢相關有沒有在裝修的這些資訊\n556801\t570823\t那如果是發生發現的違規行為那是不是有一些可以可以去這個國土署我們辦法設置相關裝修許可的資料的網站讓民眾來查詢而不是大家就是檢舉來的時候沒有一些可以依照的依據\n571932\t598357\t感謝委員其實我們陸陸續續現在雖然地方政府自己有的有能力做相關的網站那來揭露但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費是他並沒有揭露相關的這個資訊那這個我想我們來檢討我們署內的這一個健管相關許可的網站來找地方政府來討論看是否一種是鼓勵地方政府設另外一種就集中把這些資訊也集中到我們的網站\n598737\t602884\t那我們也來做一些管理我想委員這個建議我們來找地方政委一起來商討\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員大家早有請劉世芳 劉副長劉副長有請\n政委早部長好那還是首先第一題請教您一下14題就是有關於這個內政部最近推動全台中正路的改名引發爭議那您也有表示轉型正義是人權問題需要嚴肅對待不管是中央政府或地方政府不要把它當成有錢在推動沒有錢就不推動那您也有表示說不管是改路名還是去除雕像\n或是去除威權主義的象徵如果遇到困難應該中央地方還有在地居民都有共識再來討論那依據內政部統計其實全台現在有300條中正路而且影響的人數會是上萬甚至數十萬\n的居民以及商家包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通要跟著變那民眾現在很擔心不管地方政府受到壓力以及民眾會擔心改資料換證件\n就要花非常多的時間跟金錢的成本那依據現在網路民調統計也請部長參考超過七成的民眾反對改民因為大家認為說其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要\n因為這些重鎮路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了不會想到是威權的象徵民眾也認為說這樣子改名的話對民生其實沒有很多的幫助以前像道路改名成功的案例像台北的軍公路改成和平東路四段這樣的改名其實也全部歷經了17年那也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持才一步一步的完成\n那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下\n謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的\n那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者\n現在局限就是蔣中正蔣經國命名的介入名稱這是屬於威權象徵因於改名所以事實上我們是根據這個大院所通過的這個法律來進行的那在進行的過程當中確實沒有錯就是我們有委託這個有一些這個文史團體來幫我們做一下研究它大概有四種不同的程度譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像那可能移除就很快但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走\n就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府\n所以地方政府要配合這個所謂的威權這個象徵時代的這個部分呢要這個改名的部分呢其實我們為什麼在新聞稿的時候有講清楚說這是一個法定的任務或者義務啦那法定義務的話就要編列預算那編列預算是可多可少因為看你這個狀況而定因為它不是一個\n這個累積性的它只是一個特定的這特定時段完成就完成譬如說我們知道台中市改名為台灣大道或者是台南市政府它中正路把它加註有湯德章大道是類似的一個道理那我們都知道在推動的過程當中我都一再強調溝通非常重要\n這個溝通包括中央政府包括地方政府那包括這個地方上的這個民眾這文史團體那所以我才強調說這個轉型正義這個推動的過程當中要顧慮到轉型正義也要顧慮到程序正義因為我們是一個民主法治的國家內政部也是屬於行政院的這個一個部會而已我們不可能超越法律的授權去處理法律授權以外的東西那但是呢大家都知道\n對於推動這個改名的過程當中很多人有不同的看法有的人覺得說必須要這個就是威權的象徵那有的人覺得說啊無所謂而且呢他從小到大就在中正路吃麵線或者是吃陽春麵或者是吃外省麵長大的那這些呢都可以列入我們可以一起溝通討論的範圍所以我才強調說轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義然後我們希望這不要造成這個很多的社會對立但是呢\n不造成社會對立不是表示你講你的我講我的而是說我們能不能溝通如果溝通有共識的話有共識我們就來推動那坦白跟這個委員講就是我們內政部自己民政司在推動有關轉型正義剛好今年的預算在包一大包裡面也是被凍結啦那但是呢我們都知道如果地方政府有需要的話我們會轉到促轉基金來申請相關的基金預算來協助那以上簡單的報告\n好 謝謝部長的解釋我想我剛剛也給部長一個清楚的說明機會希望說未來地方政府在推動的時候也希望說內政部可以來指導一下看地方政府後續要如何去進行也要感受民眾的感受\n接下來我們要討論今天有關於建築法的一個修法那主要的問題點就是說這是根據建築法的第77條之二規定公共使用的建築物裝修必須使用申請室內裝修許可那必須要張貼在現場才可以施工\n那這些制度現在目前來看是非常的完整可是實務上常常看到有些商場為了要爭取一些時間未報準就先行動工或是因為他們的想法就是說企圖可以用還沒有這個申請核准就開始施工那創造一些時間差來說短暫停營業的一些損失那我想要請教就是說因為現在有如果一些裝修現場沒有申請沒有張貼也沒有這個消防防護計劃\n那我們來請教一下因為我們知道說現在裝修的案子在全台灣非常的多那現有的查核的量能我們想應該是相對有點不足啊那我想請教就是說那現有的機制面對這樣的情況的時候要如何來運行是不是說只能依照民眾檢舉啊那是不是說有一些主動申報的查核機制不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢是不是請署長回答\n感謝委員 原來在試裝的試裝辦法裡面本來針對這個要張貼施工的資訊在試裝辦法第29條都已經有明訂了所以在法令上來講因為建築法是母法所以我們在下授在建築屋的部分有建築基礎規則跟試裝的辦法所以詳細的執行\n細節我們都會定在執法裡面所以這是原來在執法就有第二個就是說當然對於這一個申報開工它是屬於在被查制當然在形式上你如果沒有完成這樣子的話那經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話那當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰\n那但是就像委員所講的其實現在施工查驗的部分那地方政府其實有些地方政府還是屬於在行政裡面自己會去辦相關的稽查但是也有些縣市政府已經都有委託相關的工會去做稽查\n那至於這個稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議這部分我們原廠都會尊重地方政府就他的行政機制上要如何來加強那我們會站在監督的立場就是說再跟他們討論看看是否請他們再加強這個稽查的次數好 謝謝署長那署長就是說因為現在\n整個機制來講我們現在有在協助努力不管是地方機場的加強或是請工會來協助那可是我現在比較擔心的是說會不會因為資訊不透明會有一些違法裝修的一些問題那變成說如果以民眾他們有沒有辦法及時查詢相關有沒有在裝修的這些資訊\n那如果是發生發現的違規行為那是不是有一些可以可以去這個國土署我們辦法設置相關裝修許可的資料的網站讓民眾來查詢而不是大家就是檢舉來的時候沒有一些可以依照的依據\n感謝委員其實我們陸陸續續現在雖然地方政府自己有的有能力做相關的網站那來揭露但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費是他並沒有揭露相關的這個資訊那這個我想我們來檢討我們署內的這一個健管相關許可的網站來找地方政府來討論看是否一種是鼓勵地方政府設另外一種就集中把這些資訊也集中到我們的網站\n那我們也來做一些管理我想委員這個建議我們來找地方政委一起來商討\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.793 --> 00:07.011\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳劉副長劉副長有請\n\n00:12.933 --> 00:37.926\n政委早部長好那還是首先第一題請教您一下14題就是有關於這個內政部最近推動全台中正路的改名引發爭議那您也有表示轉型正義是人權問題需要嚴肅對待不管是中央政府或地方政府不要把它當成有錢在推動沒有錢就不推動那您也有表示說不管是改路名還是去除雕像\n\n00:38.466 --> 00:53.672\n或是去除威權主義的象徵如果遇到困難應該中央地方還有在地居民都有共識再來討論那依據內政部統計其實全台現在有300條中正路而且影響的人數會是上萬甚至數十萬\n\n00:54.512 --> 01:07.180\n的居民以及商家包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通要跟著變那民眾現在很擔心不管地方政府受到壓力以及民眾會擔心改資料換證件\n\n01:09.662 --> 01:25.324\n就要花非常多的時間跟金錢的成本那依據現在網路民調統計也請部長參考超過七成的民眾反對改民因為大家認為說其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要\n\n01:25.845 --> 01:49.098\n因為這些重鎮路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了不會想到是威權的象徵民眾也認為說這樣子改名的話對民生其實沒有很多的幫助以前像道路改名成功的案例像台北的軍公路改成和平東路四段這樣的改名其實也全部歷經了17年那也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持才一步一步的完成\n\n01:49.798 --> 02:17.963\n那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下\n\n02:18.703 --> 02:38.981\n謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的\n\n02:42.344 --> 02:54.498\n那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者\n\n02:57.441 --> 03:12.127\n現在局限就是蔣中正蔣經國命名的介入名稱這是屬於威權象徵因於改名所以事實上我們是根據這個大院所通過的這個法律來進行的那在進行的過程當中確實沒有錯就是我們有委託這個有一些這個文史團體來幫我們做一下研究它大概有四種不同的程度譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像那可能移除就很快但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走\n\n03:27.193 --> 03:53.428\n就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府\n\n03:54.028 --> 03:58.070\n所以地方政府要配合這個所謂的威權這個象徵時代的這個部分呢要這個改名的部分呢其實我們為什麼在新聞稿的時候有講清楚說這是一個法定的任務或者義務啦那法定義務的話就要編列預算那編列預算是可多可少因為看你這個狀況而定因為它不是一個\n\n04:17.301 --> 04:22.967\n這個累積性的它只是一個特定的這特定時段完成就完成譬如說我們知道台中市改名為台灣大道或者是台南市政府它中正路把它加註有湯德章大道是類似的一個道理那我們都知道在推動的過程當中我都一再強調溝通非常重要\n\n04:36.820 --> 04:43.804\n這個溝通包括中央政府包括地方政府那包括這個地方上的這個民眾這文史團體那所以我才強調說這個轉型正義這個推動的過程當中要顧慮到轉型正義也要顧慮到程序正義因為我們是一個民主法治的國家內政部也是屬於行政院的這個一個部會而已我們不可能超越法律的授權去處理法律授權以外的東西那但是呢大家都知道\n\n05:03.753 --> 05:12.938\n對於推動這個改名的過程當中很多人有不同的看法有的人覺得說必須要這個就是威權的象徵那有的人覺得說啊無所謂而且呢他從小到大就在中正路吃麵線或者是吃陽春麵或者是吃外省麵長大的那這些呢都可以列入我們可以一起溝通討論的範圍所以我才強調說轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義然後我們希望這不要造成這個很多的社會對立但是呢\n\n05:32.708 --> 05:58.562\n不造成社會對立不是表示你講你的我講我的而是說我們能不能溝通如果溝通有共識的話有共識我們就來推動那坦白跟這個委員講就是我們內政部自己民政司在推動有關轉型正義剛好今年的預算在包一大包裡面也是被凍結啦那但是呢我們都知道如果地方政府有需要的話我們會轉到促轉基金來申請相關的基金預算來協助那以上簡單的報告\n\n05:59.522 --> 06:14.233\n好謝謝部長的解釋我想我剛剛也給部長一個清楚的說明機會希望說未來地方政府在推動的時候也希望說內政部可以來指導一下看地方政府後續要如何去進行也要感受民眾的感受\n\n06:16.235 --> 06:22.520\n接下來我們要討論今天有關於建築法的一個修法那主要的問題點就是說這是根據建築法的第77條之二規定公共使用的建築物裝修必須使用申請室內裝修許可那必須要張貼在現場才可以施工\n\n06:41.098 --> 07:05.460\n那這些制度現在目前來看是非常的完整可是實務上常常看到有些商場為了要爭取一些時間未報準就先行動工或是因為他們的想法就是說企圖可以用還沒有這個申請核准就開始施工那創造一些時間差來說短暫停營業的一些損失那我想要請教就是說因為現在有如果一些裝修現場沒有申請沒有張貼也沒有這個消防防護計劃\n\n07:08.402 --> 07:33.122\n那我們來請教一下因為我們知道說現在裝修的案子在全台灣非常的多那現有的查核的量能我們想應該是相對有點不足啊那我想請教就是說那現有的機制面對這樣的情況的時候要如何來運行是不是說只能依照民眾檢舉啊那是不是說有一些主動申報的查核機制不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢是不是請署長回答\n\n07:34.211 --> 07:55.958\n感謝委員原來在試裝的試裝辦法裡面本來針對這個要張貼施工的資訊在試裝辦法第29條都已經有明訂了所以在法令上來講因為建築法是母法所以我們在下授在建築屋的部分有建築基礎規則跟試裝的辦法所以詳細的執行\n\n07:59.560 --> 08:18.038\n細節我們都會定在執法裡面所以這是原來在執法就有第二個就是說當然對於這一個申報開工它是屬於在被查制當然在形式上你如果沒有完成這樣子的話那經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話那當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰\n\n08:18.959 --> 08:34.095\n那但是就像委員所講的其實現在施工查驗的部分那地方政府其實有些地方政府還是屬於在行政裡面自己會去辦相關的稽查但是也有些縣市政府已經都有委託相關的工會去做稽查\n\n08:34.696 --> 08:51.140\n那至於這個稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議這部分我們原廠都會尊重地方政府就他的行政機制上要如何來加強那我們會站在監督的立場就是說再跟他們討論看看是否請他們再加強這個稽查的次數好謝謝署長那署長就是說因為現在\n\n08:56.261 --> 09:15.400\n整個機制來講我們現在有在協助努力不管是地方機場的加強或是請工會來協助那可是我現在比較擔心的是說會不會因為資訊不透明會有一些違法裝修的一些問題那變成說如果以民眾他們有沒有辦法及時查詢相關有沒有在裝修的這些資訊\n\n09:16.801 --> 09:30.823\n那如果是發生發現的違規行為那是不是有一些可以可以去這個國土署我們辦法設置相關裝修許可的資料的網站讓民眾來查詢而不是大家就是檢舉來的時候沒有一些可以依照的依據\n\n09:31.932 --> 09:58.357\n感謝委員其實我們陸陸續續現在雖然地方政府自己有的有能力做相關的網站那來揭露但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費是他並沒有揭露相關的這個資訊那這個我想我們來檢討我們署內的這一個健管相關許可的網站來找地方政府來討論看是否一種是鼓勵地方政府設另外一種就集中把這些資訊也集中到我們的網站\n\n09:58.737 --> 10:02.884\n那我們也來做一些管理我想委員這個建議我們來找地方政委一起來商討\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.793,"end":7.011,"text":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員大家早有請劉世芳 劉副長劉副長有請"},{"start":12.933,"end":37.926,"text":"政委早部長好那還是首先第一題請教您一下14題就是有關於這個內政部最近推動全台中正路的改名引發爭議那您也有表示轉型正義是人權問題需要嚴肅對待不管是中央政府或地方政府不要把它當成有錢在推動沒有錢就不推動那您也有表示說不管是改路名還是去除雕像"},{"start":38.466,"end":53.672,"text":"或是去除威權主義的象徵如果遇到困難應該中央地方還有在地居民都有共識再來討論那依據內政部統計其實全台現在有300條中正路而且影響的人數會是上萬甚至數十萬"},{"start":54.512,"end":67.18,"text":"的居民以及商家包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通要跟著變那民眾現在很擔心不管地方政府受到壓力以及民眾會擔心改資料換證件"},{"start":69.662,"end":85.324,"text":"就要花非常多的時間跟金錢的成本那依據現在網路民調統計也請部長參考超過七成的民眾反對改民因為大家認為說其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要"},{"start":85.845,"end":109.098,"text":"因為這些重鎮路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了不會想到是威權的象徵民眾也認為說這樣子改名的話對民生其實沒有很多的幫助以前像道路改名成功的案例像台北的軍公路改成和平東路四段這樣的改名其實也全部歷經了17年那也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持才一步一步的完成"},{"start":109.798,"end":137.963,"text":"那我是不是想請教部長說現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些的地名哪一些的標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的清單那導致地方不知道如何評估甚至會被質疑說是選擇性推動那是不是可以請教針對入名的部分可不可以說明一下或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單還是完全交由地方自治然後地方來負責是不是請部長可以回答一下"},{"start":138.703,"end":158.981,"text":"謝謝張委員的關心如果按照張委員的講法的話那就請大院來修正促轉條例因為根據促轉條例的第五條跟第十一條之二的規定出現於公共建築或場所的紀念免懷威權統治者的象徵應與移除跟改名那各級政府機關構均應配合辦理這個是在2017年的促轉條例在大院通過的"},{"start":162.344,"end":174.498,"text":"那很多委員當時也都很多我們的這個執政者不管是中央跟地方當時也都是立法委員那所以我們是根據這個第五條跟第十一條之二的部分將這個威權統治者"},{"start":177.441,"end":192.127,"text":"現在局限就是蔣中正蔣經國命名的介入名稱這是屬於威權象徵因於改名所以事實上我們是根據這個大院所通過的這個法律來進行的那在進行的過程當中確實沒有錯就是我們有委託這個有一些這個文史團體來幫我們做一下研究它大概有四種不同的程度譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像那可能移除就很快但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走"},{"start":207.193,"end":233.428,"text":"就是還是要有完成譬如說它雕像所在地的地方或是學校或者是某一個公共場所之類的那這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中那當然最難的部分是在於說張委員所提到的就是路民的改善的部分那因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部還包括地方政府"},{"start":234.028,"end":238.07,"text":"所以地方政府要配合這個所謂的威權這個象徵時代的這個部分呢要這個改名的部分呢其實我們為什麼在新聞稿的時候有講清楚說這是一個法定的任務或者義務啦那法定義務的話就要編列預算那編列預算是可多可少因為看你這個狀況而定因為它不是一個"},{"start":257.301,"end":262.967,"text":"這個累積性的它只是一個特定的這特定時段完成就完成譬如說我們知道台中市改名為台灣大道或者是台南市政府它中正路把它加註有湯德章大道是類似的一個道理那我們都知道在推動的過程當中我都一再強調溝通非常重要"},{"start":276.82,"end":283.804,"text":"這個溝通包括中央政府包括地方政府那包括這個地方上的這個民眾這文史團體那所以我才強調說這個轉型正義這個推動的過程當中要顧慮到轉型正義也要顧慮到程序正義因為我們是一個民主法治的國家內政部也是屬於行政院的這個一個部會而已我們不可能超越法律的授權去處理法律授權以外的東西那但是呢大家都知道"},{"start":303.753,"end":312.938,"text":"對於推動這個改名的過程當中很多人有不同的看法有的人覺得說必須要這個就是威權的象徵那有的人覺得說啊無所謂而且呢他從小到大就在中正路吃麵線或者是吃陽春麵或者是吃外省麵長大的那這些呢都可以列入我們可以一起溝通討論的範圍所以我才強調說轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義然後我們希望這不要造成這個很多的社會對立但是呢"},{"start":332.708,"end":358.562,"text":"不造成社會對立不是表示你講你的我講我的而是說我們能不能溝通如果溝通有共識的話有共識我們就來推動那坦白跟這個委員講就是我們內政部自己民政司在推動有關轉型正義剛好今年的預算在包一大包裡面也是被凍結啦那但是呢我們都知道如果地方政府有需要的話我們會轉到促轉基金來申請相關的基金預算來協助那以上簡單的報告"},{"start":359.522,"end":374.233,"text":"好 謝謝部長的解釋我想我剛剛也給部長一個清楚的說明機會希望說未來地方政府在推動的時候也希望說內政部可以來指導一下看地方政府後續要如何去進行也要感受民眾的感受"},{"start":376.235,"end":382.52,"text":"接下來我們要討論今天有關於建築法的一個修法那主要的問題點就是說這是根據建築法的第77條之二規定公共使用的建築物裝修必須使用申請室內裝修許可那必須要張貼在現場才可以施工"},{"start":401.098,"end":425.46,"text":"那這些制度現在目前來看是非常的完整可是實務上常常看到有些商場為了要爭取一些時間未報準就先行動工或是因為他們的想法就是說企圖可以用還沒有這個申請核准就開始施工那創造一些時間差來說短暫停營業的一些損失那我想要請教就是說因為現在有如果一些裝修現場沒有申請沒有張貼也沒有這個消防防護計劃"},{"start":428.402,"end":453.122,"text":"那我們來請教一下因為我們知道說現在裝修的案子在全台灣非常的多那現有的查核的量能我們想應該是相對有點不足啊那我想請教就是說那現有的機制面對這樣的情況的時候要如何來運行是不是說只能依照民眾檢舉啊那是不是說有一些主動申報的查核機制不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢是不是請署長回答"},{"start":454.211,"end":475.958,"text":"感謝委員 原來在試裝的試裝辦法裡面本來針對這個要張貼施工的資訊在試裝辦法第29條都已經有明訂了所以在法令上來講因為建築法是母法所以我們在下授在建築屋的部分有建築基礎規則跟試裝的辦法所以詳細的執行"},{"start":479.56,"end":498.038,"text":"細節我們都會定在執法裡面所以這是原來在執法就有第二個就是說當然對於這一個申報開工它是屬於在被查制當然在形式上你如果沒有完成這樣子的話那經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話那當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰"},{"start":498.959,"end":514.095,"text":"那但是就像委員所講的其實現在施工查驗的部分那地方政府其實有些地方政府還是屬於在行政裡面自己會去辦相關的稽查但是也有些縣市政府已經都有委託相關的工會去做稽查"},{"start":514.696,"end":531.14,"text":"那至於這個稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議這部分我們原廠都會尊重地方政府就他的行政機制上要如何來加強那我們會站在監督的立場就是說再跟他們討論看看是否請他們再加強這個稽查的次數好 謝謝署長那署長就是說因為現在"},{"start":536.261,"end":555.4,"text":"整個機制來講我們現在有在協助努力不管是地方機場的加強或是請工會來協助那可是我現在比較擔心的是說會不會因為資訊不透明會有一些違法裝修的一些問題那變成說如果以民眾他們有沒有辦法及時查詢相關有沒有在裝修的這些資訊"},{"start":556.801,"end":570.823,"text":"那如果是發生發現的違規行為那是不是有一些可以可以去這個國土署我們辦法設置相關裝修許可的資料的網站讓民眾來查詢而不是大家就是檢舉來的時候沒有一些可以依照的依據"},{"start":571.932,"end":598.357,"text":"感謝委員其實我們陸陸續續現在雖然地方政府自己有的有能力做相關的網站那來揭露但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費是他並沒有揭露相關的這個資訊那這個我想我們來檢討我們署內的這一個健管相關許可的網站來找地方政府來討論看是否一種是鼓勵地方政府設另外一種就集中把這些資訊也集中到我們的網站"},{"start":598.737,"end":602.884,"text":"那我們也來做一些管理我想委員這個建議我們來找地方政委一起來商討"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時34分）謝謝主席。各位委員、各位官員，大家早。有請劉世芳部長。"],["主席：劉部長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員早。"],["張委員智倫：部長好。首先第一題要請教您一下時事題，就是有關於內政部最近推動全臺中正路的改名引發爭議，您表示轉型正義是人權問題，需要嚴肅對待，不管是中央政府或地方政府，不要把它當成有錢再推動、沒有錢就不推動。您也表示，不管是改路名，還是去除雕像或是去除威權主義的象徵，如果遇到困難，應該等到中央、地方及在地居民都有共識之後再來討論。","依據內政部統計，其實全臺現在有300條中正路，而且影響的人數是上萬甚至數十萬的居民以及商家，包含身分證、戶口名簿、土地權狀、稅單、交通站牌、營業登記、帳單、地址等通通要跟著變。民眾現在很擔心，不管是地方政府受到壓力，以及民眾會擔心改資料、換證件要花非常多的時間跟金錢成本。","依據現在的網路民調統計，也請部長參考，超過七成的民眾反對改名，因為大家認為，其實不是民眾不重視轉型正義，而是大家認為回歸生活現實比較重要，因為這些中正路早就變成大家生活習慣的地址了，不會想到是威權的象徵。民眾也認為，這樣的改名對民生其實沒有很多的幫助，以前道路改名成功的案例中，像臺北的軍功路改成和平東路四段，這樣的改名其實也歷經了17年，也是經過在地民眾七成以上支持，才一步一步的完成。","想請教部長，現在中央沒有明確公告哪一些地名、哪一些標誌是屬於威權象徵跟建議改名的名單，導致地方不知道如何評估，甚至會被質疑是選擇性推動。針對路名的部分，可不可以說明一下，或是未來有機會可以公告建議修改的名單？還是完全交由地方自治，由地方來負責，是不是請部長回答一下？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝張委員的關心，如果按照張委員的講法，就請大院來修正促轉條例，因為根據促轉條例第五條跟第十一條之二的規定，出現於公共建築或場所的紀念、緬懷威權統治者的象徵，應予移除跟改名，各級政府機關（構）均應配合辦理。這是2017年在大院通過的促轉條例，很多我們的執政者，不管是中央跟地方，當時也都是立法委員，所以我們是根據第五條跟第十一條之二，將威權統治者，現在侷限在就是以蔣中正、蔣經國命名的街路名稱，這是屬於威權象徵，應予改名，所以事實上我們是根據大院所通過的法律來進行的。","在進行的過程當中，確實沒有錯，我們有委託一些文史團體來幫我們做一下研究，這大概有4種不同的程度，譬如說它只是一個塑像或是雕像，若要移除可能就很快，但是移除的過程也不是搬了就走，還是有一些要完成，譬如說雕像所在的地方，或者是學校，或者是某一個公共場所之類的，這些移除也慢慢都在完成當中。當然最難的部分是在於張委員所提到的，就是路名改善的部分，因為內政部是地方制度的主管機關，但是地方制度的執行機關並不是只有內政部，還包括地方政府，所以地方政府配合所謂威權象徵要改名的部分，其實我們在新聞稿中有講清楚，這是一個法定的任務或是義務，法定義務的話，就要編列預算，而編列預算可多可少，看狀況而定，因為它不是一個累積性的，只是一個特定時段，完成就完成了，譬如說我們知道臺中市將其改名為臺灣大道；或者是臺南市政府把中正路加註為湯德章大道，就是類似的道理。","在推動的過程當中，我都一再強調，溝通非常重要，這個溝通包括中央政府，包括地方政府，包括地方上的民眾跟文史團體，所以我才強調說，轉型正義推動的過程當中，要顧慮到轉型正義，也要顧慮到程序正義，因為我們是一個民主法治的國家，內政部也是屬於行政院的一個部會，我們不可能超越法律的授權，去處理法律授權以外的東西。但是大家都知道，在推動改名的過程當中，很多人有不同的看法，有的人覺得必須要做，這個就是威權的象徵；有的人覺得無所謂，而且他從小到大就是在中正路吃麵線，或者是吃陽春麵，或是吃外省麵長大的，這些都可以列入我們一起溝通、討論的範圍，所以我才強調說，轉型正義一定要顧及到程序正義，然後我們希望不要造成很多的社會對立，但是不造成社會對立並不表示就是你講你的、我講我的，而是說我們能不能溝通，如果溝通有共識的話，我們就來推動。","坦白跟委員講，就是我們內政部自己的民政司在推動有關轉型正義的部分，剛好今年的預算，包在一大包裡面，也是被凍結了，但是我們都知道，如果地方政府有需要的話，我們會轉到促轉基金，並申請相關的基金預算來協助，以上簡單的報告。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長的解釋，我剛剛也給部長一個清楚說明的機會，希望未來地方政府在推動的時候，也希望內政部可以來指導一下，看地方政府後續要如何去進行，而且也要感受到民眾的感受。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我跟您講一下……"],["張委員智倫：部長，我沒有要請你回答，我要談到下一題了，而且剛剛也給你很多時間說明，謝謝。","接下來我們要討論的是今天有關於建築法的修法，主要的問題點是，根據建築法的第七十七條之二規定，供公眾使用建築物之裝修應申請室內裝修許可，並應將許可文件張貼於施工現場才可以施工，這些制度目前來看是非常的完整，可是實務上卻常常看到，有些商場為了爭取一些時間，未報准就先行動工，或是他們的想法是，還沒有申請核准就開始施工，企圖創造一些時間差，來縮短暫停營業的一些損失。我想請教的是，如果一些裝修現場沒有申請、沒有張貼，也沒有消防防護計畫，我們知道現在裝修的案子在全臺灣非常的多，現有的查核量能，相對應該是有點不足，就現有的機制，面對這樣情況的時候，要如何來運行呢？是不是只能依照民眾檢舉？是不是有一些主動申報的查核機制，不能遇到事故才亡羊補牢？請署長回答。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員的提案，其實在室裝辦法裡面，本來就針對張貼施工資訊，室裝辦法第二十九條都已經有明定了。在法令上來講，因為建築法是母法，所以我們在下授建築物的部分，有建築技術規則跟室裝辦法，至於詳細的執行細節，我們都會定在子法裡面，因此，這在子法裡原本就有。","第二個，對於申報開工，它是屬於備查制。當然在形式上如果沒有完成這樣子的程序，經過稽查確實屬於未申報開工的話，當然可以依照建築法的規定去進行相關的處罰。但是就像委員所講的，其實現在施工查驗的部分，有些地方政府是他們行政人員自己會去辦相關的稽查，但是有些縣市政府則是已經委託相關的公會去做稽查。至於稽查的量能跟次數要不要再增加，我想我們可以再找地方政府來研議，這部分我們原則上都會尊重地方政府就它的行政機制上要如何來加強，我們會站在監督的立場，就是再跟他們討論，看看是否請他們再加強稽查的次數。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝署長。因為就整個機制來講，我們現在有在協助、努力，不管是地方稽查的加強，或是請公會來協助，可是我現在比較擔心的是，會不會因為資訊不透明，而有一些違法裝修的問題，民眾他們有沒有辦法即時查詢到底有沒有在裝修等等這些資訊呢？如果發現了違規行為怎麼處理呢？對此，國土署有沒有辦法就相關裝修許可資料來設置的網站，讓民眾來查詢，而不是檢舉提出來的時候，大家沒有一些可以依照的依據。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，其實我們陸陸續續都在做，雖然有的地方政府自己有能力做相關的網站來揭露，但是我也知道有些地方政府礙於經費，並沒有揭露相關的資訊，我們會來檢討我們署內建管相關許可的網站，並找地方政府來討論，一種是鼓勵地方政府設置；另外一種就是把這些資訊集中到我們的網站，我們也來做一些管理，委員的這個建議，我們會找地方政府一起來商討。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝署長，謝謝部長。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員。下一位我們請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-24","speakers":["牛煦庭","陳菁徽","顏寬恒","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、建築法：(一)審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「建築法第九十一條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員顏寬恒等21 人擬具「建築法第七十三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 三) 審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃建賓等16\n人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員徐巧芯\n等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第\n九十七條條文修正草案」案、( 七) 審查委員顏寬恒等17 人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草\n案」案、(八)審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案、(九)審查委員\n陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)審查台灣\n民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二、平均地權條\n例：審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145601_00005"}}}