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\"end\": 796.178, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 796.178, \"end\": 796.498, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 796.498, \"end\": 796.638, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 796.638, \"end\": 796.838, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 796.838, \"end\": 797.039, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 797.039, \"end\": 797.259, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 797.259, \"end\": 797.439, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 797.439, \"end\": 797.599, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 797.599, \"end\": 797.739, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 797.739, \"end\": 797.959, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 797.959, \"end\": 798.34, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 798.34, \"end\": 798.54, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 798.54, \"end\": 799.04, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 802.564, \"end\": 802.684, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 802.684, \"end\": 802.824, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 802.824, \"end\": 802.844, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,369 --> 00:00:12,617\n請執行完後休息10分鐘謝主席請紅部長\n\n2\n00:00:20,594 --> 00:00:30,900\n部長好辛苦了那昨天剛公布的勞保勞退的基金的績效在2025年的4月單月我們勞退基金虧損高達多少\n\n3\n00:00:34,527 --> 00:00:57,587\n勞動基金,對,勞退,1300億左右嘛,對不對,不過這些都是未實現的,是我懂,那平均每位的勞工帳面的虧損就是達到1萬大概103元,不太能夠這樣算,它是未實現的,你先讓我講完嘛,我當然知道是未實現的嘛,這就是短期的部分嘛,但是我再論述一個道理,\n\n4\n00:00:58,368 --> 00:01:17,834\n那另外上次三月數據出爐的時候其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的這個計價部位匯損的問題喔那那個時候是30塊左右匯率那現在掉了大概又變成29塊喔所以等於又有4%出現喔所以我就是想問說喔雖然它是未實現的那\n\n5\n00:01:18,474 --> 00:01:29,319\n你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損或者是這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於這個基金的信心你們有什麼相關的這個機制\n\n6\n00:01:32,147 --> 00:01:54,383\n報告委員美元其實它有一個長期的均勢那我們透過多元的一個策略因為我們的資產有不同的配置很多種對所以你就說有在分散嘛我們的話國內的股票國外的債券都有那你們現在有評估現在目前的匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去會不會今年大約會衝擊多少嗎\n\n7\n00:01:57,093 --> 00:02:12,535\n委員報告委員確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益但是跟委員報告這個因為我們長期這個美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的我們也做過研究就是說\n\n8\n00:02:12,975 --> 00:02:28,845\n你現在是相對穩定,可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛,短期的確有衝擊嘛那你們有沒有去做一個相關的評估風險的避免有,一定會有的\n\n9\n00:02:30,766 --> 00:02:51,395\n那剛剛問的是短期的部分因為目前今年到4月份應該已經顯示高達的大概損失大概是1990億左右那整體收益率大概是負2.9%那這樣子波動劇烈那剛剛也有提到報告內容有提到說現在的勞工保險基金累存的餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億\n\n10\n00:02:56,517 --> 00:03:03,226\n那想要請問到目前4月底的時候這個累存餘額有多少有沒有跌破一兆沒有一兆994億\n\n11\n00:03:06,331 --> 00:03:21,914\n依照994依是到目前為止嘛到4月底好那那麼就是說部長依照這個目前啊4月份的勞保基金的會計報表數據這個兌換的這個短處大概就是272億5000萬左右那我們現在擔心的就是說這個股匯雙殺會不會也反映在這個基金的數據上面\n\n12\n00:03:30,296 --> 00:03:40,064\n那現在的保底機制也就是保證收益的這個機制啊在極端市場波動的時候有沒有足夠可以保障我們勞工實職的這個權益退休的權益\n\n13\n00:03:42,728 --> 00:04:08,706\n報告委員短期的波動是會受影響但是如果我們因為我們都是中長期的投資事實上如果長期來看不管是五年的平均或者十年的平均我們不管是勞保或者整個勞動基金報酬率會超過6%以上最近這幾年是都不錯可是你也知道這股市不可能是這樣子一直這樣下去那你們近期雖然短期有這個虧損但你們有沒有\n\n14\n00:04:09,426 --> 00:04:27,114\n去預設假設你長期或是這一年這兩年都不好的情況之下那你們會這個部分會不會去做什麼機制的調整報告委員是舉例來講就是說你們會不會因為這樣子的長期的收益會你們會考慮去調低所謂的保證收益的利率\n\n15\n00:04:28,459 --> 00:04:46,868\n不會應該保證收益率不會好謝謝我就是想要問這個答案因為我們擔心我們擔心因為長期虧損的話發生了這樣的事情大家都會擔心不會這個部分不會謝謝所以你有這樣的信心的宣示我覺得很好但是在這個舊勞保基金的部分其實\n\n16\n00:04:48,123 --> 00:04:57,946\n老保於2017年首次出現,短處大概275.38億那之後每一年的短差大概是252億然後再228億、486億、288億然後2022年的時候是386億到2023年的時候擴大到446億到2024年又擴大到655億創立歷年的新高\n\n17\n00:05:11,849 --> 00:05:36,296\n所以我就說了剛剛講下來這個邏輯是這樣那為什麼現在還沒有破產其中一大原因當然就是政府的撥補對不對然後剛剛也有提到的因為最近另外一個原因是就是這個基金的部分其實是有賺錢績效還不錯這個部分我本席也給予肯定那另外一個大原因就是剛剛說的這個部分那你們2019年到2023年的平均報酬大概是7.51%那其實我們都很樂見\n\n18\n00:05:39,457 --> 00:05:53,066\n就是剛剛講的概念就是我們當然都很樂見我們的基金投資都有賺錢然後或者是這個收益率都很不錯可是我覺得這終究是有一個上限啊你不可能天天都在賺錢嘛對不對你不可能每一年長期都在賺錢嘛\n\n19\n00:05:54,616 --> 00:06:15,202\n所以也很可以顯而易見的說在長期上來看要蓋過這個基金的缺口要靠這個投資是不太可能的不太可能而且尤其是今年這個國際局勢的動盪金融市場的動盪也很可能今年會是收益率近年來的第一次是負的所以\n\n20\n00:06:16,768 --> 00:06:31,413\n所以簡單來講目前為止您剛剛部長有提到我們目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產你也說這個基金有賺錢這件事情延後了可是其實我們可以看到勞保的精算負債\n\n21\n00:06:32,893 --> 00:06:46,481\n這個數值基本上是反映了我們勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額嘛對不對那目前為止我們的勞保精算的負債是用前所未見每一年超過一兆元的速度迅速的增長啊\n\n22\n00:06:47,762 --> 00:06:59,496\n迅速的增長那這三年間金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1000億足足增加了3兆那按照這個膨脹的速度其實這個精算的負債會在5到10年內會超過我們全國國內的生產毛額\n\n23\n00:07:04,261 --> 00:07:32,189\n所以這麼大的缺口其實現在也是為什麼大家這麼緊張所以不是說單單靠就是說我每一年找個錢或想辦法去撥補就可以讓大家安心的所以這就是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府負最終的支付責任這件事情是我想要問因為我們當然很多委員也都已經有提修法我還是想問我們部長的態度究竟是什麼因為剛剛前面的邏輯講了這麼多部長你到底知不知恥\n\n24\n00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:59,751\n像有入法沒入法目前政府的政策的態度就是政府是負最終責任的這是態度但是你沒有入法的話這個沒有辦法讓百姓安心我是希望說這個部分部長是不是可以清楚一點表態當然還有很多相關的配套必須做可是我覺得第一步要讓百姓安心讓民眾安心讓勞工安心這件事情是不是我們身為勞動部長應該要來給大家一個承諾和具體的方向\n\n25\n00:08:00,491 --> 00:08:20,568\n我們的政策就是這樣子那再來是說現在其實當然有我們看到很多委員的提案對於這些提案我想我們都是尊重那就整體的行政團隊來說我們認為這個部分是我們是持開放的態度那也覺得有討論和研議的空間那請問你們要接下來具體要怎麼做\n\n26\n00:08:21,741 --> 00:08:41,083\n所謂開放跟演繹的空間因為我們還是很希望部長可以表態說我們其實是支持的但是你可能要有一些配套必須去去釐清我當然支持政府負最終責任的事而且這個事情現在也在做你支持嘛對不對我當然支持政府負最終責任這件事情入法\n\n27\n00:08:42,020 --> 00:09:09,542\n對不對你支持這個概念就算不入法我也支持對那所以代表您支持入法嗎很好我覺得副部長願意這樣講的話我想因為你剛剛其實這樣聽起來大家應該我說有入法沒入法我們都是這樣做所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念好我希望可以給勞工一個安心我們也希望讓勞工可以安心好那再來我就要再問另外一題了剛剛這個答案OK我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事我是支持政府負擔責任這件事\n\n28\n00:09:11,043 --> 00:09:31,828\n支持政府付起財務的最終責任這件事情因為我剛剛邏輯已經講很清楚了那這一題先到這裡那我另外要跟你講一個是無薪假的來襲那要怎麼保障我們這個勞工子女的權益那目前為止共155家企業2830億人實施減班休息也就是所謂的無薪假\n\n29\n00:09:32,808 --> 00:09:45,753\n那其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家然後827人其實較前一期統計大概是倍增這基本上是倍增所以反映現在開始對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大\n\n30\n00:09:48,735 --> 00:10:09,565\n那為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔勞動部本來有一個東西叫做失業勞工子女就學補助嘛那這個部分是本來就已經有的那他是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀這個高中職級大專校大專院校的人提供就學補助這件事\n\n31\n00:10:10,245 --> 00:10:22,134\n那補助金額是從四千到兩萬元不等但因為這次的衝擊其實這個東西它並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的這種勞工的子女有就學補助\n\n32\n00:10:23,356 --> 00:10:43,209\n所以接下來因為這一波的關稅衝擊我覺得可能越來越大那應該是不是應該要提早引引因為下一個學期即將是在9月開學那本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭他們子女的就學會不會也因此受到影響好那所以請問部長這部分可不可以請\n\n33\n00:10:44,590 --> 00:11:01,615\n貴婦回去研議這部分是不是可以去擴大因為基本上就是同一個計畫但是擴大到所謂的無薪假的家庭這部分的適用範圍可不可以譬如說將被迫放無薪假的兩個月以上的勞工或是他的其子女可不可以放入這個補助的範圍內\n\n34\n00:11:05,602 --> 00:11:22,288\n我還是想要說明其實就台灣的制度來說我們其實是減班休息因為有時候無薪假講久了真的會有一些勞工以為他可以真的無薪有的時候有些勞工在聽到無薪假聽久他真的以為會無薪\n\n35\n00:11:25,249 --> 00:11:52,684\n他對自己權益的認知第二點其實現在針對放減班休息的勞工我們當然現在是有公安訂措施跟充電債出發可以去可以去補貼他在薪資上面收入的差距跟損失我想透過這個方式那剛剛委員在講的是這個子女的這個就學的這個部分的補貼我想這是不同的政策不過我們大概可以綜合做一些考慮可是我想但是你剛剛講\n\n36\n00:11:53,184 --> 00:12:11,216\n對於他經濟性支持的做法對經濟性支持的做法目前主要我們還是設計是透過包括這個顧安定措施部長希望您可不可以回去就是去研修研議這個部分就是他子女的部分剛剛你有講過充電再出發等等的其實之前我有提到因為你現在看到他已經翻倍了嘛\n\n37\n00:12:11,616 --> 00:12:33,529\n他其實如果一直不斷的這樣下去其實會我們也密切的在我們也密切的在監測員關注他的這個目前的狀況我之前有提到包含什麼安心及時上工等等的但是我今天講的就是其實你們既然原本有這個計畫你有沒有試著去演繹擴大它的範圍到現在所謂的這個減班休息或者是你說五行假因為被迫放五行假的這樣子的\n\n38\n00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:58,635\n家庭的子女的補助就學的補助的方案我想要請部長這邊是不是可以去盤點然後去了解一下這樣子會不會對他們受到衝擊我想我們可以來綜合的研議怎麼樣來幫助這個減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助我們會綜合來研可能也不是只是這個部分因為這確實是不同的情況那請問大概要多久一個月可以嗎因為我看他這樣翻倍的速度很快喔\n\n39\n00:12:59,602 --> 00:13:22,844\n他衝擊來的會很快喔你們是不是可以盡速我們會我們在我們在一個月好不好一個月我們一個月的時間怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持沒錯請各種方面的支持然後還有包含這所謂包括權益上面包括權益上面的協助好謝謝那一個月內給本席辦公室一個這個研議的方向和報告謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n369\t12617\t請執行完後休息10分鐘謝主席請紅部長\n20594\t30900\t部長好 辛苦了那昨天剛公布的勞保勞退的基金的績效在2025年的4月單月我們勞退基金虧損高達多少\n34527\t57587\t勞動基金,對,勞退,1300億左右嘛,對不對,不過這些都是未實現的,是我懂,那平均每位的勞工帳面的虧損就是達到1萬大概103元,不太能夠這樣算,它是未實現的,你先讓我講完嘛,我當然知道是未實現的嘛,這就是短期的部分嘛,但是我再論述一個道理,\n58368\t77834\t那另外上次三月數據出爐的時候其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的這個計價部位匯損的問題喔那那個時候是30塊左右匯率那現在掉了大概又變成29塊喔所以等於又有4%出現喔所以我就是想問說喔雖然它是未實現的那\n78474\t89319\t你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損或者是這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於這個基金的信心你們有什麼相關的這個機制\n92147\t114383\t報告委員 美元其實它有一個長期的均勢那我們透過多元的一個策略因為我們的資產有不同的配置很多種 對所以你就說有在分散嘛我們的話國內的股票 國外的債券都有那你們現在有評估現在目前的匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去會不會今年大約會衝擊多少嗎\n117093\t132535\t委員報告委員確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益但是跟委員報告這個因為我們長期這個美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的我們也做過研究就是說\n132975\t148845\t你現在是相對穩定,可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛,短期的確有衝擊嘛那你們有沒有去做一個相關的評估風險的避免有,一定會有的\n150766\t171395\t那剛剛問的是短期的部分因為目前今年到4月份應該已經顯示高達的大概損失大概是1990億左右那整體收益率大概是負2.9%那這樣子波動劇烈那剛剛也有提到報告內容有提到說現在的勞工保險基金累存的餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億\n176517\t183226\t那想要請問到目前4月底的時候這個累存餘額有多少有沒有跌破一兆沒有一兆994億\n186331\t201914\t依照994 依是到目前為止嘛到4月底好那那麼就是說部長依照這個目前啊4月份的勞保基金的會計報表數據這個兌換的這個短處大概就是272億5000萬左右那我們現在擔心的就是說這個股匯雙殺會不會也反映在這個基金的數據上面\n210296\t220064\t那現在的保底機制也就是保證收益的這個機制啊在極端市場波動的時候有沒有足夠可以保障我們勞工實職的這個權益退休的權益\n222728\t248706\t報告委員短期的波動是會受影響但是如果我們因為我們都是中長期的投資事實上如果長期來看不管是五年的平均或者十年的平均我們不管是勞保或者整個勞動基金報酬率會超過6%以上最近這幾年是都不錯可是你也知道這股市不可能是這樣子一直這樣下去那你們近期雖然短期有這個虧損但你們有沒有\n249426\t267114\t去預設假設你長期或是這一年這兩年都不好的情況之下那你們會這個部分會不會去做什麼機制的調整報告委員是舉例來講就是說你們會不會因為這樣子的長期的收益會你們會考慮去調低所謂的保證收益的利率\n268459\t286868\t不會應該保證收益率不會好謝謝我就是想要問這個答案因為我們擔心我們擔心因為長期虧損的話發生了這樣的事情大家都會擔心不會這個部分不會謝謝所以你有這樣的信心的宣示我覺得很好但是在這個舊勞保基金的部分其實\n288123\t297946\t老保於2017年首次出現,短處大概275.38億那之後每一年的短差大概是252億然後再228億、486億、288億然後2022年的時候是386億到2023年的時候擴大到446億到2024年又擴大到655億創立歷年的新高\n311849\t336296\t所以我就說了剛剛講下來這個邏輯是這樣那為什麼現在還沒有破產其中一大原因當然就是政府的撥補對不對然後剛剛也有提到的因為最近另外一個原因是就是這個基金的部分其實是有賺錢績效還不錯這個部分我本席也給予肯定那另外一個大原因就是剛剛說的這個部分那你們2019年到2023年的平均報酬大概是7.51%那其實我們都很樂見\n339457\t353066\t就是剛剛講的概念就是我們當然都很樂見我們的基金投資都有賺錢然後或者是這個收益率都很不錯可是我覺得這終究是有一個上限啊你不可能天天都在賺錢嘛對不對你不可能每一年長期都在賺錢嘛\n354616\t375202\t所以也很可以顯而易見的說在長期上來看要蓋過這個基金的缺口要靠這個投資是不太可能的不太可能而且尤其是今年這個國際局勢的動盪金融市場的動盪也很可能今年會是收益率近年來的第一次是負的所以\n376768\t391413\t所以簡單來講目前為止您剛剛部長有提到我們目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產你也說這個基金有賺錢這件事情延後了可是其實我們可以看到勞保的精算負債\n392893\t406481\t這個數值基本上是反映了我們勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額嘛對不對那目前為止我們的勞保精算的負債是用前所未見每一年超過一兆元的速度迅速的增長啊\n407762\t419496\t迅速的增長那這三年間金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1000億足足增加了3兆那按照這個膨脹的速度其實這個精算的負債會在5到10年內會超過我們全國國內的生產毛額\n424261\t452189\t所以這麼大的缺口其實現在也是為什麼大家這麼緊張所以不是說單單靠就是說我每一年找個錢或想辦法去撥補就可以讓大家安心的所以這就是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府負最終的支付責任這件事情是我想要問因為我們當然很多委員也都已經有提修法我還是想問我們部長的態度究竟是什麼因為剛剛前面的邏輯講了這麼多部長你到底知不知恥\n453360\t479751\t像有入法沒入法目前政府的政策的態度就是政府是負最終責任的這是態度但是你沒有入法的話這個沒有辦法讓百姓安心我是希望說這個部分部長是不是可以清楚一點表態當然還有很多相關的配套必須做可是我覺得第一步要讓百姓安心讓民眾安心讓勞工安心這件事情是不是我們身為勞動部長應該要來給大家一個承諾和具體的方向\n480491\t500568\t我們的政策就是這樣子那再來是說現在其實當然有我們看到很多委員的提案對於這些提案我想我們都是尊重那就整體的行政團隊來說我們認為這個部分是我們是持開放的態度那也覺得有討論和研議的空間那請問你們要接下來具體要怎麼做\n501741\t521083\t所謂開放跟演繹的空間因為我們還是很希望部長可以表態說我們其實是支持的但是你可能要有一些配套必須去去釐清我當然支持政府負最終責任的事而且這個事情現在也在做你支持嘛對不對我當然支持政府負最終責任這件事情入法\n522020\t549542\t對不對你支持這個概念就算不入法我也支持對那所以代表您支持入法嗎很好我覺得副部長願意這樣講的話我想因為你剛剛其實這樣聽起來大家應該我說有入法沒入法我們都是這樣做所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念好我希望可以給勞工一個安心我們也希望讓勞工可以安心好那再來我就要再問另外一題了剛剛這個答案OK我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事我是支持政府負擔責任這件事\n551043\t571828\t支持政府付起財務的最終責任這件事情因為我剛剛邏輯已經講很清楚了那這一題先到這裡那我另外要跟你講一個是無薪假的來襲那要怎麼保障我們這個勞工子女的權益那目前為止共155家企業2830億人實施減班休息也就是所謂的無薪假\n572808\t585753\t那其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家然後827人其實較前一期統計大概是倍增這基本上是倍增所以反映現在開始對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大\n588735\t609565\t那為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔勞動部本來有一個東西叫做失業勞工子女就學補助嘛那這個部分是本來就已經有的那他是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀這個高中職級大專校大專院校的人提供就學補助這件事\n610245\t622134\t那補助金額是從四千到兩萬元不等但因為這次的衝擊其實這個東西它並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的這種勞工的子女有就學補助\n623356\t643209\t所以接下來因為這一波的關稅衝擊我覺得可能越來越大那應該是不是應該要提早引引因為下一個學期即將是在9月開學那本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭他們子女的就學會不會也因此受到影響好那所以請問部長這部分可不可以請\n644590\t661615\t貴婦回去研議這部分是不是可以去擴大因為基本上就是同一個計畫但是擴大到所謂的無薪假的家庭這部分的適用範圍可不可以譬如說將被迫放無薪假的兩個月以上的勞工或是他的其子女可不可以放入這個補助的範圍內\n665602\t682288\t我還是想要說明其實就台灣的制度來說我們其實是減班休息因為有時候無薪假講久了真的會有一些勞工以為他可以真的無薪有的時候有些勞工在聽到無薪假聽久他真的以為會無薪\n685249\t712684\t他對自己權益的認知第二點其實現在針對放減班休息的勞工我們當然現在是有公安訂措施跟充電債出發可以去可以去補貼他在薪資上面收入的差距跟損失我想透過這個方式那剛剛委員在講的是這個子女的這個就學的這個部分的補貼我想這是不同的政策不過我們大概可以綜合做一些考慮可是我想但是你剛剛講\n713184\t731216\t對於他經濟性支持的做法對經濟性支持的做法目前主要我們還是設計是透過包括這個顧安定措施部長希望您可不可以回去就是去研修研議這個部分就是他子女的部分剛剛你有講過充電再出發等等的其實之前我有提到因為你現在看到他已經翻倍了嘛\n731616\t753529\t他其實如果一直不斷的這樣下去其實會我們也密切的在我們也密切的在監測員關注他的這個目前的狀況我之前有提到包含什麼安心及時上工等等的但是我今天講的就是其實你們既然原本有這個計畫你有沒有試著去演繹擴大它的範圍到現在所謂的這個減班休息或者是你說五行假因為被迫放五行假的這樣子的\n754870\t778635\t家庭的子女的補助就學的補助的方案我想要請部長這邊是不是可以去盤點然後去了解一下這樣子會不會對他們受到衝擊我想我們可以來綜合的研議怎麼樣來幫助這個減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助我們會綜合來研可能也不是只是這個部分因為這確實是不同的情況那請問大概要多久一個月可以嗎因為我看他這樣翻倍的速度很快喔\n779602\t802844\t他衝擊來的會很快喔你們是不是可以盡速我們會我們在我們在一個月好不好一個月我們一個月的時間怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持沒錯請各種方面的支持然後還有包含這所謂包括權益上面包括權益上面的協助好謝謝那一個月內給本席辦公室一個這個研議的方向和報告謝謝\n","txt":"請執行完後休息10分鐘謝主席請紅部長\n部長好 辛苦了那昨天剛公布的勞保勞退的基金的績效在2025年的4月單月我們勞退基金虧損高達多少\n勞動基金,對,勞退,1300億左右嘛,對不對,不過這些都是未實現的,是我懂,那平均每位的勞工帳面的虧損就是達到1萬大概103元,不太能夠這樣算,它是未實現的,你先讓我講完嘛,我當然知道是未實現的嘛,這就是短期的部分嘛,但是我再論述一個道理,\n那另外上次三月數據出爐的時候其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的這個計價部位匯損的問題喔那那個時候是30塊左右匯率那現在掉了大概又變成29塊喔所以等於又有4%出現喔所以我就是想問說喔雖然它是未實現的那\n你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損或者是這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於這個基金的信心你們有什麼相關的這個機制\n報告委員 美元其實它有一個長期的均勢那我們透過多元的一個策略因為我們的資產有不同的配置很多種 對所以你就說有在分散嘛我們的話國內的股票 國外的債券都有那你們現在有評估現在目前的匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去會不會今年大約會衝擊多少嗎\n委員報告委員確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益但是跟委員報告這個因為我們長期這個美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的我們也做過研究就是說\n你現在是相對穩定,可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛,短期的確有衝擊嘛那你們有沒有去做一個相關的評估風險的避免有,一定會有的\n那剛剛問的是短期的部分因為目前今年到4月份應該已經顯示高達的大概損失大概是1990億左右那整體收益率大概是負2.9%那這樣子波動劇烈那剛剛也有提到報告內容有提到說現在的勞工保險基金累存的餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億\n那想要請問到目前4月底的時候這個累存餘額有多少有沒有跌破一兆沒有一兆994億\n依照994 依是到目前為止嘛到4月底好那那麼就是說部長依照這個目前啊4月份的勞保基金的會計報表數據這個兌換的這個短處大概就是272億5000萬左右那我們現在擔心的就是說這個股匯雙殺會不會也反映在這個基金的數據上面\n那現在的保底機制也就是保證收益的這個機制啊在極端市場波動的時候有沒有足夠可以保障我們勞工實職的這個權益退休的權益\n報告委員短期的波動是會受影響但是如果我們因為我們都是中長期的投資事實上如果長期來看不管是五年的平均或者十年的平均我們不管是勞保或者整個勞動基金報酬率會超過6%以上最近這幾年是都不錯可是你也知道這股市不可能是這樣子一直這樣下去那你們近期雖然短期有這個虧損但你們有沒有\n去預設假設你長期或是這一年這兩年都不好的情況之下那你們會這個部分會不會去做什麼機制的調整報告委員是舉例來講就是說你們會不會因為這樣子的長期的收益會你們會考慮去調低所謂的保證收益的利率\n不會應該保證收益率不會好謝謝我就是想要問這個答案因為我們擔心我們擔心因為長期虧損的話發生了這樣的事情大家都會擔心不會這個部分不會謝謝所以你有這樣的信心的宣示我覺得很好但是在這個舊勞保基金的部分其實\n老保於2017年首次出現,短處大概275.38億那之後每一年的短差大概是252億然後再228億、486億、288億然後2022年的時候是386億到2023年的時候擴大到446億到2024年又擴大到655億創立歷年的新高\n所以我就說了剛剛講下來這個邏輯是這樣那為什麼現在還沒有破產其中一大原因當然就是政府的撥補對不對然後剛剛也有提到的因為最近另外一個原因是就是這個基金的部分其實是有賺錢績效還不錯這個部分我本席也給予肯定那另外一個大原因就是剛剛說的這個部分那你們2019年到2023年的平均報酬大概是7.51%那其實我們都很樂見\n就是剛剛講的概念就是我們當然都很樂見我們的基金投資都有賺錢然後或者是這個收益率都很不錯可是我覺得這終究是有一個上限啊你不可能天天都在賺錢嘛對不對你不可能每一年長期都在賺錢嘛\n所以也很可以顯而易見的說在長期上來看要蓋過這個基金的缺口要靠這個投資是不太可能的不太可能而且尤其是今年這個國際局勢的動盪金融市場的動盪也很可能今年會是收益率近年來的第一次是負的所以\n所以簡單來講目前為止您剛剛部長有提到我們目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產你也說這個基金有賺錢這件事情延後了可是其實我們可以看到勞保的精算負債\n這個數值基本上是反映了我們勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額嘛對不對那目前為止我們的勞保精算的負債是用前所未見每一年超過一兆元的速度迅速的增長啊\n迅速的增長那這三年間金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1000億足足增加了3兆那按照這個膨脹的速度其實這個精算的負債會在5到10年內會超過我們全國國內的生產毛額\n所以這麼大的缺口其實現在也是為什麼大家這麼緊張所以不是說單單靠就是說我每一年找個錢或想辦法去撥補就可以讓大家安心的所以這就是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府負最終的支付責任這件事情是我想要問因為我們當然很多委員也都已經有提修法我還是想問我們部長的態度究竟是什麼因為剛剛前面的邏輯講了這麼多部長你到底知不知恥\n像有入法沒入法目前政府的政策的態度就是政府是負最終責任的這是態度但是你沒有入法的話這個沒有辦法讓百姓安心我是希望說這個部分部長是不是可以清楚一點表態當然還有很多相關的配套必須做可是我覺得第一步要讓百姓安心讓民眾安心讓勞工安心這件事情是不是我們身為勞動部長應該要來給大家一個承諾和具體的方向\n我們的政策就是這樣子那再來是說現在其實當然有我們看到很多委員的提案對於這些提案我想我們都是尊重那就整體的行政團隊來說我們認為這個部分是我們是持開放的態度那也覺得有討論和研議的空間那請問你們要接下來具體要怎麼做\n所謂開放跟演繹的空間因為我們還是很希望部長可以表態說我們其實是支持的但是你可能要有一些配套必須去去釐清我當然支持政府負最終責任的事而且這個事情現在也在做你支持嘛對不對我當然支持政府負最終責任這件事情入法\n對不對你支持這個概念就算不入法我也支持對那所以代表您支持入法嗎很好我覺得副部長願意這樣講的話我想因為你剛剛其實這樣聽起來大家應該我說有入法沒入法我們都是這樣做所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念好我希望可以給勞工一個安心我們也希望讓勞工可以安心好那再來我就要再問另外一題了剛剛這個答案OK我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事我是支持政府負擔責任這件事\n支持政府付起財務的最終責任這件事情因為我剛剛邏輯已經講很清楚了那這一題先到這裡那我另外要跟你講一個是無薪假的來襲那要怎麼保障我們這個勞工子女的權益那目前為止共155家企業2830億人實施減班休息也就是所謂的無薪假\n那其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家然後827人其實較前一期統計大概是倍增這基本上是倍增所以反映現在開始對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大\n那為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔勞動部本來有一個東西叫做失業勞工子女就學補助嘛那這個部分是本來就已經有的那他是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀這個高中職級大專校大專院校的人提供就學補助這件事\n那補助金額是從四千到兩萬元不等但因為這次的衝擊其實這個東西它並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的這種勞工的子女有就學補助\n所以接下來因為這一波的關稅衝擊我覺得可能越來越大那應該是不是應該要提早引引因為下一個學期即將是在9月開學那本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭他們子女的就學會不會也因此受到影響好那所以請問部長這部分可不可以請\n貴婦回去研議這部分是不是可以去擴大因為基本上就是同一個計畫但是擴大到所謂的無薪假的家庭這部分的適用範圍可不可以譬如說將被迫放無薪假的兩個月以上的勞工或是他的其子女可不可以放入這個補助的範圍內\n我還是想要說明其實就台灣的制度來說我們其實是減班休息因為有時候無薪假講久了真的會有一些勞工以為他可以真的無薪有的時候有些勞工在聽到無薪假聽久他真的以為會無薪\n他對自己權益的認知第二點其實現在針對放減班休息的勞工我們當然現在是有公安訂措施跟充電債出發可以去可以去補貼他在薪資上面收入的差距跟損失我想透過這個方式那剛剛委員在講的是這個子女的這個就學的這個部分的補貼我想這是不同的政策不過我們大概可以綜合做一些考慮可是我想但是你剛剛講\n對於他經濟性支持的做法對經濟性支持的做法目前主要我們還是設計是透過包括這個顧安定措施部長希望您可不可以回去就是去研修研議這個部分就是他子女的部分剛剛你有講過充電再出發等等的其實之前我有提到因為你現在看到他已經翻倍了嘛\n他其實如果一直不斷的這樣下去其實會我們也密切的在我們也密切的在監測員關注他的這個目前的狀況我之前有提到包含什麼安心及時上工等等的但是我今天講的就是其實你們既然原本有這個計畫你有沒有試著去演繹擴大它的範圍到現在所謂的這個減班休息或者是你說五行假因為被迫放五行假的這樣子的\n家庭的子女的補助就學的補助的方案我想要請部長這邊是不是可以去盤點然後去了解一下這樣子會不會對他們受到衝擊我想我們可以來綜合的研議怎麼樣來幫助這個減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助我們會綜合來研可能也不是只是這個部分因為這確實是不同的情況那請問大概要多久一個月可以嗎因為我看他這樣翻倍的速度很快喔\n他衝擊來的會很快喔你們是不是可以盡速我們會我們在我們在一個月好不好一個月我們一個月的時間怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持沒錯請各種方面的支持然後還有包含這所謂包括權益上面包括權益上面的協助好謝謝那一個月內給本席辦公室一個這個研議的方向和報告謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.369 --> 00:12.617\n請執行完後休息10分鐘謝主席請紅部長\n\n00:20.594 --> 00:30.900\n部長好辛苦了那昨天剛公布的勞保勞退的基金的績效在2025年的4月單月我們勞退基金虧損高達多少\n\n00:34.527 --> 00:57.587\n勞動基金,對,勞退,1300億左右嘛,對不對,不過這些都是未實現的,是我懂,那平均每位的勞工帳面的虧損就是達到1萬大概103元,不太能夠這樣算,它是未實現的,你先讓我講完嘛,我當然知道是未實現的嘛,這就是短期的部分嘛,但是我再論述一個道理,\n\n00:58.368 --> 01:17.834\n那另外上次三月數據出爐的時候其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的這個計價部位匯損的問題喔那那個時候是30塊左右匯率那現在掉了大概又變成29塊喔所以等於又有4%出現喔所以我就是想問說喔雖然它是未實現的那\n\n01:18.474 --> 01:29.319\n你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損或者是這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於這個基金的信心你們有什麼相關的這個機制\n\n01:32.147 --> 01:54.383\n報告委員美元其實它有一個長期的均勢那我們透過多元的一個策略因為我們的資產有不同的配置很多種對所以你就說有在分散嘛我們的話國內的股票國外的債券都有那你們現在有評估現在目前的匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去會不會今年大約會衝擊多少嗎\n\n01:57.093 --> 02:12.535\n委員報告委員確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益但是跟委員報告這個因為我們長期這個美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的我們也做過研究就是說\n\n02:12.975 --> 02:28.845\n你現在是相對穩定,可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛,短期的確有衝擊嘛那你們有沒有去做一個相關的評估風險的避免有,一定會有的\n\n02:30.766 --> 02:51.395\n那剛剛問的是短期的部分因為目前今年到4月份應該已經顯示高達的大概損失大概是1990億左右那整體收益率大概是負2.9%那這樣子波動劇烈那剛剛也有提到報告內容有提到說現在的勞工保險基金累存的餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億\n\n02:56.517 --> 03:03.226\n那想要請問到目前4月底的時候這個累存餘額有多少有沒有跌破一兆沒有一兆994億\n\n03:06.331 --> 03:21.914\n依照994依是到目前為止嘛到4月底好那那麼就是說部長依照這個目前啊4月份的勞保基金的會計報表數據這個兌換的這個短處大概就是272億5000萬左右那我們現在擔心的就是說這個股匯雙殺會不會也反映在這個基金的數據上面\n\n03:30.296 --> 03:40.064\n那現在的保底機制也就是保證收益的這個機制啊在極端市場波動的時候有沒有足夠可以保障我們勞工實職的這個權益退休的權益\n\n03:42.728 --> 04:08.706\n報告委員短期的波動是會受影響但是如果我們因為我們都是中長期的投資事實上如果長期來看不管是五年的平均或者十年的平均我們不管是勞保或者整個勞動基金報酬率會超過6%以上最近這幾年是都不錯可是你也知道這股市不可能是這樣子一直這樣下去那你們近期雖然短期有這個虧損但你們有沒有\n\n04:09.426 --> 04:27.114\n去預設假設你長期或是這一年這兩年都不好的情況之下那你們會這個部分會不會去做什麼機制的調整報告委員是舉例來講就是說你們會不會因為這樣子的長期的收益會你們會考慮去調低所謂的保證收益的利率\n\n04:28.459 --> 04:46.868\n不會應該保證收益率不會好謝謝我就是想要問這個答案因為我們擔心我們擔心因為長期虧損的話發生了這樣的事情大家都會擔心不會這個部分不會謝謝所以你有這樣的信心的宣示我覺得很好但是在這個舊勞保基金的部分其實\n\n04:48.123 --> 04:57.946\n老保於2017年首次出現,短處大概275.38億那之後每一年的短差大概是252億然後再228億、486億、288億然後2022年的時候是386億到2023年的時候擴大到446億到2024年又擴大到655億創立歷年的新高\n\n05:11.849 --> 05:36.296\n所以我就說了剛剛講下來這個邏輯是這樣那為什麼現在還沒有破產其中一大原因當然就是政府的撥補對不對然後剛剛也有提到的因為最近另外一個原因是就是這個基金的部分其實是有賺錢績效還不錯這個部分我本席也給予肯定那另外一個大原因就是剛剛說的這個部分那你們2019年到2023年的平均報酬大概是7.51%那其實我們都很樂見\n\n05:39.457 --> 05:53.066\n就是剛剛講的概念就是我們當然都很樂見我們的基金投資都有賺錢然後或者是這個收益率都很不錯可是我覺得這終究是有一個上限啊你不可能天天都在賺錢嘛對不對你不可能每一年長期都在賺錢嘛\n\n05:54.616 --> 06:15.202\n所以也很可以顯而易見的說在長期上來看要蓋過這個基金的缺口要靠這個投資是不太可能的不太可能而且尤其是今年這個國際局勢的動盪金融市場的動盪也很可能今年會是收益率近年來的第一次是負的所以\n\n06:16.768 --> 06:31.413\n所以簡單來講目前為止您剛剛部長有提到我們目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產你也說這個基金有賺錢這件事情延後了可是其實我們可以看到勞保的精算負債\n\n06:32.893 --> 06:46.481\n這個數值基本上是反映了我們勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額嘛對不對那目前為止我們的勞保精算的負債是用前所未見每一年超過一兆元的速度迅速的增長啊\n\n06:47.762 --> 06:59.496\n迅速的增長那這三年間金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1000億足足增加了3兆那按照這個膨脹的速度其實這個精算的負債會在5到10年內會超過我們全國國內的生產毛額\n\n07:04.261 --> 07:32.189\n所以這麼大的缺口其實現在也是為什麼大家這麼緊張所以不是說單單靠就是說我每一年找個錢或想辦法去撥補就可以讓大家安心的所以這就是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府負最終的支付責任這件事情是我想要問因為我們當然很多委員也都已經有提修法我還是想問我們部長的態度究竟是什麼因為剛剛前面的邏輯講了這麼多部長你到底知不知恥\n\n07:33.360 --> 07:59.751\n像有入法沒入法目前政府的政策的態度就是政府是負最終責任的這是態度但是你沒有入法的話這個沒有辦法讓百姓安心我是希望說這個部分部長是不是可以清楚一點表態當然還有很多相關的配套必須做可是我覺得第一步要讓百姓安心讓民眾安心讓勞工安心這件事情是不是我們身為勞動部長應該要來給大家一個承諾和具體的方向\n\n08:00.491 --> 08:20.568\n我們的政策就是這樣子那再來是說現在其實當然有我們看到很多委員的提案對於這些提案我想我們都是尊重那就整體的行政團隊來說我們認為這個部分是我們是持開放的態度那也覺得有討論和研議的空間那請問你們要接下來具體要怎麼做\n\n08:21.741 --> 08:41.083\n所謂開放跟演繹的空間因為我們還是很希望部長可以表態說我們其實是支持的但是你可能要有一些配套必須去去釐清我當然支持政府負最終責任的事而且這個事情現在也在做你支持嘛對不對我當然支持政府負最終責任這件事情入法\n\n08:42.020 --> 09:09.542\n對不對你支持這個概念就算不入法我也支持對那所以代表您支持入法嗎很好我覺得副部長願意這樣講的話我想因為你剛剛其實這樣聽起來大家應該我說有入法沒入法我們都是這樣做所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念好我希望可以給勞工一個安心我們也希望讓勞工可以安心好那再來我就要再問另外一題了剛剛這個答案OK我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事我是支持政府負擔責任這件事\n\n09:11.043 --> 09:31.828\n支持政府付起財務的最終責任這件事情因為我剛剛邏輯已經講很清楚了那這一題先到這裡那我另外要跟你講一個是無薪假的來襲那要怎麼保障我們這個勞工子女的權益那目前為止共155家企業2830億人實施減班休息也就是所謂的無薪假\n\n09:32.808 --> 09:45.753\n那其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家然後827人其實較前一期統計大概是倍增這基本上是倍增所以反映現在開始對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大\n\n09:48.735 --> 10:09.565\n那為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔勞動部本來有一個東西叫做失業勞工子女就學補助嘛那這個部分是本來就已經有的那他是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀這個高中職級大專校大專院校的人提供就學補助這件事\n\n10:10.245 --> 10:22.134\n那補助金額是從四千到兩萬元不等但因為這次的衝擊其實這個東西它並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的這種勞工的子女有就學補助\n\n10:23.356 --> 10:43.209\n所以接下來因為這一波的關稅衝擊我覺得可能越來越大那應該是不是應該要提早引引因為下一個學期即將是在9月開學那本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭他們子女的就學會不會也因此受到影響好那所以請問部長這部分可不可以請\n\n10:44.590 --> 11:01.615\n貴婦回去研議這部分是不是可以去擴大因為基本上就是同一個計畫但是擴大到所謂的無薪假的家庭這部分的適用範圍可不可以譬如說將被迫放無薪假的兩個月以上的勞工或是他的其子女可不可以放入這個補助的範圍內\n\n11:05.602 --> 11:22.288\n我還是想要說明其實就台灣的制度來說我們其實是減班休息因為有時候無薪假講久了真的會有一些勞工以為他可以真的無薪有的時候有些勞工在聽到無薪假聽久他真的以為會無薪\n\n11:25.249 --> 11:52.684\n他對自己權益的認知第二點其實現在針對放減班休息的勞工我們當然現在是有公安訂措施跟充電債出發可以去可以去補貼他在薪資上面收入的差距跟損失我想透過這個方式那剛剛委員在講的是這個子女的這個就學的這個部分的補貼我想這是不同的政策不過我們大概可以綜合做一些考慮可是我想但是你剛剛講\n\n11:53.184 --> 12:11.216\n對於他經濟性支持的做法對經濟性支持的做法目前主要我們還是設計是透過包括這個顧安定措施部長希望您可不可以回去就是去研修研議這個部分就是他子女的部分剛剛你有講過充電再出發等等的其實之前我有提到因為你現在看到他已經翻倍了嘛\n\n12:11.616 --> 12:33.529\n他其實如果一直不斷的這樣下去其實會我們也密切的在我們也密切的在監測員關注他的這個目前的狀況我之前有提到包含什麼安心及時上工等等的但是我今天講的就是其實你們既然原本有這個計畫你有沒有試著去演繹擴大它的範圍到現在所謂的這個減班休息或者是你說五行假因為被迫放五行假的這樣子的\n\n12:34.870 --> 12:58.635\n家庭的子女的補助就學的補助的方案我想要請部長這邊是不是可以去盤點然後去了解一下這樣子會不會對他們受到衝擊我想我們可以來綜合的研議怎麼樣來幫助這個減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助我們會綜合來研可能也不是只是這個部分因為這確實是不同的情況那請問大概要多久一個月可以嗎因為我看他這樣翻倍的速度很快喔\n\n12:59.602 --> 13:22.844\n他衝擊來的會很快喔你們是不是可以盡速我們會我們在我們在一個月好不好一個月我們一個月的時間怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持沒錯請各種方面的支持然後還有包含這所謂包括權益上面包括權益上面的協助好謝謝那一個月內給本席辦公室一個這個研議的方向和報告謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.369,"end":12.617,"text":"請執行完後休息10分鐘謝主席請紅部長"},{"start":20.594,"end":30.9,"text":"部長好 辛苦了那昨天剛公布的勞保勞退的基金的績效在2025年的4月單月我們勞退基金虧損高達多少"},{"start":34.527,"end":57.587,"text":"勞動基金,對,勞退,1300億左右嘛,對不對,不過這些都是未實現的,是我懂,那平均每位的勞工帳面的虧損就是達到1萬大概103元,不太能夠這樣算,它是未實現的,你先讓我講完嘛,我當然知道是未實現的嘛,這就是短期的部分嘛,但是我再論述一個道理,"},{"start":58.368,"end":77.834,"text":"那另外上次三月數據出爐的時候其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的這個計價部位匯損的問題喔那那個時候是30塊左右匯率那現在掉了大概又變成29塊喔所以等於又有4%出現喔所以我就是想問說喔雖然它是未實現的那"},{"start":78.474,"end":89.319,"text":"你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損或者是這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於這個基金的信心你們有什麼相關的這個機制"},{"start":92.147,"end":114.383,"text":"報告委員 美元其實它有一個長期的均勢那我們透過多元的一個策略因為我們的資產有不同的配置很多種 對所以你就說有在分散嘛我們的話國內的股票 國外的債券都有那你們現在有評估現在目前的匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去會不會今年大約會衝擊多少嗎"},{"start":117.093,"end":132.535,"text":"委員報告委員確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益但是跟委員報告這個因為我們長期這個美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的我們也做過研究就是說"},{"start":132.975,"end":148.845,"text":"你現在是相對穩定,可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛,短期的確有衝擊嘛那你們有沒有去做一個相關的評估風險的避免有,一定會有的"},{"start":150.766,"end":171.395,"text":"那剛剛問的是短期的部分因為目前今年到4月份應該已經顯示高達的大概損失大概是1990億左右那整體收益率大概是負2.9%那這樣子波動劇烈那剛剛也有提到報告內容有提到說現在的勞工保險基金累存的餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億"},{"start":176.517,"end":183.226,"text":"那想要請問到目前4月底的時候這個累存餘額有多少有沒有跌破一兆沒有一兆994億"},{"start":186.331,"end":201.914,"text":"依照994 依是到目前為止嘛到4月底好那那麼就是說部長依照這個目前啊4月份的勞保基金的會計報表數據這個兌換的這個短處大概就是272億5000萬左右那我們現在擔心的就是說這個股匯雙殺會不會也反映在這個基金的數據上面"},{"start":210.296,"end":220.064,"text":"那現在的保底機制也就是保證收益的這個機制啊在極端市場波動的時候有沒有足夠可以保障我們勞工實職的這個權益退休的權益"},{"start":222.728,"end":248.706,"text":"報告委員短期的波動是會受影響但是如果我們因為我們都是中長期的投資事實上如果長期來看不管是五年的平均或者十年的平均我們不管是勞保或者整個勞動基金報酬率會超過6%以上最近這幾年是都不錯可是你也知道這股市不可能是這樣子一直這樣下去那你們近期雖然短期有這個虧損但你們有沒有"},{"start":249.426,"end":267.114,"text":"去預設假設你長期或是這一年這兩年都不好的情況之下那你們會這個部分會不會去做什麼機制的調整報告委員是舉例來講就是說你們會不會因為這樣子的長期的收益會你們會考慮去調低所謂的保證收益的利率"},{"start":268.459,"end":286.868,"text":"不會應該保證收益率不會好謝謝我就是想要問這個答案因為我們擔心我們擔心因為長期虧損的話發生了這樣的事情大家都會擔心不會這個部分不會謝謝所以你有這樣的信心的宣示我覺得很好但是在這個舊勞保基金的部分其實"},{"start":288.123,"end":297.946,"text":"老保於2017年首次出現,短處大概275.38億那之後每一年的短差大概是252億然後再228億、486億、288億然後2022年的時候是386億到2023年的時候擴大到446億到2024年又擴大到655億創立歷年的新高"},{"start":311.849,"end":336.296,"text":"所以我就說了剛剛講下來這個邏輯是這樣那為什麼現在還沒有破產其中一大原因當然就是政府的撥補對不對然後剛剛也有提到的因為最近另外一個原因是就是這個基金的部分其實是有賺錢績效還不錯這個部分我本席也給予肯定那另外一個大原因就是剛剛說的這個部分那你們2019年到2023年的平均報酬大概是7.51%那其實我們都很樂見"},{"start":339.457,"end":353.066,"text":"就是剛剛講的概念就是我們當然都很樂見我們的基金投資都有賺錢然後或者是這個收益率都很不錯可是我覺得這終究是有一個上限啊你不可能天天都在賺錢嘛對不對你不可能每一年長期都在賺錢嘛"},{"start":354.616,"end":375.202,"text":"所以也很可以顯而易見的說在長期上來看要蓋過這個基金的缺口要靠這個投資是不太可能的不太可能而且尤其是今年這個國際局勢的動盪金融市場的動盪也很可能今年會是收益率近年來的第一次是負的所以"},{"start":376.768,"end":391.413,"text":"所以簡單來講目前為止您剛剛部長有提到我們目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產你也說這個基金有賺錢這件事情延後了可是其實我們可以看到勞保的精算負債"},{"start":392.893,"end":406.481,"text":"這個數值基本上是反映了我們勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額嘛對不對那目前為止我們的勞保精算的負債是用前所未見每一年超過一兆元的速度迅速的增長啊"},{"start":407.762,"end":419.496,"text":"迅速的增長那這三年間金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1000億足足增加了3兆那按照這個膨脹的速度其實這個精算的負債會在5到10年內會超過我們全國國內的生產毛額"},{"start":424.261,"end":452.189,"text":"所以這麼大的缺口其實現在也是為什麼大家這麼緊張所以不是說單單靠就是說我每一年找個錢或想辦法去撥補就可以讓大家安心的所以這就是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府負最終的支付責任這件事情是我想要問因為我們當然很多委員也都已經有提修法我還是想問我們部長的態度究竟是什麼因為剛剛前面的邏輯講了這麼多部長你到底知不知恥"},{"start":453.36,"end":479.751,"text":"像有入法沒入法目前政府的政策的態度就是政府是負最終責任的這是態度但是你沒有入法的話這個沒有辦法讓百姓安心我是希望說這個部分部長是不是可以清楚一點表態當然還有很多相關的配套必須做可是我覺得第一步要讓百姓安心讓民眾安心讓勞工安心這件事情是不是我們身為勞動部長應該要來給大家一個承諾和具體的方向"},{"start":480.491,"end":500.568,"text":"我們的政策就是這樣子那再來是說現在其實當然有我們看到很多委員的提案對於這些提案我想我們都是尊重那就整體的行政團隊來說我們認為這個部分是我們是持開放的態度那也覺得有討論和研議的空間那請問你們要接下來具體要怎麼做"},{"start":501.741,"end":521.083,"text":"所謂開放跟演繹的空間因為我們還是很希望部長可以表態說我們其實是支持的但是你可能要有一些配套必須去去釐清我當然支持政府負最終責任的事而且這個事情現在也在做你支持嘛對不對我當然支持政府負最終責任這件事情入法"},{"start":522.02,"end":549.542,"text":"對不對你支持這個概念就算不入法我也支持對那所以代表您支持入法嗎很好我覺得副部長願意這樣講的話我想因為你剛剛其實這樣聽起來大家應該我說有入法沒入法我們都是這樣做所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念好我希望可以給勞工一個安心我們也希望讓勞工可以安心好那再來我就要再問另外一題了剛剛這個答案OK我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事我是支持政府負擔責任這件事"},{"start":551.043,"end":571.828,"text":"支持政府付起財務的最終責任這件事情因為我剛剛邏輯已經講很清楚了那這一題先到這裡那我另外要跟你講一個是無薪假的來襲那要怎麼保障我們這個勞工子女的權益那目前為止共155家企業2830億人實施減班休息也就是所謂的無薪假"},{"start":572.808,"end":585.753,"text":"那其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家然後827人其實較前一期統計大概是倍增這基本上是倍增所以反映現在開始對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大"},{"start":588.735,"end":609.565,"text":"那為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔勞動部本來有一個東西叫做失業勞工子女就學補助嘛那這個部分是本來就已經有的那他是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀這個高中職級大專校大專院校的人提供就學補助這件事"},{"start":610.245,"end":622.134,"text":"那補助金額是從四千到兩萬元不等但因為這次的衝擊其實這個東西它並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的這種勞工的子女有就學補助"},{"start":623.356,"end":643.209,"text":"所以接下來因為這一波的關稅衝擊我覺得可能越來越大那應該是不是應該要提早引引因為下一個學期即將是在9月開學那本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭他們子女的就學會不會也因此受到影響好那所以請問部長這部分可不可以請"},{"start":644.59,"end":661.615,"text":"貴婦回去研議這部分是不是可以去擴大因為基本上就是同一個計畫但是擴大到所謂的無薪假的家庭這部分的適用範圍可不可以譬如說將被迫放無薪假的兩個月以上的勞工或是他的其子女可不可以放入這個補助的範圍內"},{"start":665.602,"end":682.288,"text":"我還是想要說明其實就台灣的制度來說我們其實是減班休息因為有時候無薪假講久了真的會有一些勞工以為他可以真的無薪有的時候有些勞工在聽到無薪假聽久他真的以為會無薪"},{"start":685.249,"end":712.684,"text":"他對自己權益的認知第二點其實現在針對放減班休息的勞工我們當然現在是有公安訂措施跟充電債出發可以去可以去補貼他在薪資上面收入的差距跟損失我想透過這個方式那剛剛委員在講的是這個子女的這個就學的這個部分的補貼我想這是不同的政策不過我們大概可以綜合做一些考慮可是我想但是你剛剛講"},{"start":713.184,"end":731.216,"text":"對於他經濟性支持的做法對經濟性支持的做法目前主要我們還是設計是透過包括這個顧安定措施部長希望您可不可以回去就是去研修研議這個部分就是他子女的部分剛剛你有講過充電再出發等等的其實之前我有提到因為你現在看到他已經翻倍了嘛"},{"start":731.616,"end":753.529,"text":"他其實如果一直不斷的這樣下去其實會我們也密切的在我們也密切的在監測員關注他的這個目前的狀況我之前有提到包含什麼安心及時上工等等的但是我今天講的就是其實你們既然原本有這個計畫你有沒有試著去演繹擴大它的範圍到現在所謂的這個減班休息或者是你說五行假因為被迫放五行假的這樣子的"},{"start":754.87,"end":778.635,"text":"家庭的子女的補助就學的補助的方案我想要請部長這邊是不是可以去盤點然後去了解一下這樣子會不會對他們受到衝擊我想我們可以來綜合的研議怎麼樣來幫助這個減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助我們會綜合來研可能也不是只是這個部分因為這確實是不同的情況那請問大概要多久一個月可以嗎因為我看他這樣翻倍的速度很快喔"},{"start":779.602,"end":802.844,"text":"他衝擊來的會很快喔你們是不是可以盡速我們會我們在我們在一個月好不好一個月我們一個月的時間怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持沒錯請各種方面的支持然後還有包含這所謂包括權益上面包括權益上面的協助好謝謝那一個月內給本席辦公室一個這個研議的方向和報告謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時32分）謝謝主席。請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好，辛苦了。昨天剛公布勞保勞退的基金績效，在2025年的4月單月勞退基金虧損高達多少？"],["洪部長申翰：勞動基金？"],["廖委員偉翔：對，勞退。1,300億左右嘛，對不對？"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，不過這都是未實現的。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，我懂。平均每位勞工帳面的虧損達到大概1萬103元。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，不太能夠這樣算。"],["廖委員偉翔：它是未實現的。你先讓我講完嘛！我當然知道是未實現的，這就是短期的部分，但是我在論述一個道理。另外，上次3月數據出爐的時候，其實我也有問過有關於投資美金的計價部位匯損的問題，那個時候是30塊左右匯率，現在掉了，大概又變成29塊，所以等於又有4%出現。所以我就是想問雖然它是未實現的，你們在這個部分的管理和風險機制怎麼樣可以避免這樣子的虧損，或者是避免這樣子的狀況會侵蝕到勞工對於基金的信心，你們有什麼相關的機制？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，美元其實有一個長期的均勢，我們透過多元的策略，因為我們的資產有不同的配置……"],["廖委員偉翔：很多種？所以你是說有在分散嘛！對不對？"],["蘇局長郁卿：對，我們包括國內的股票、國外的債券都有，所以……"],["廖委員偉翔：你們現在有評估目前匯率一直這樣子衝擊下去，今年大約會衝擊多少嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，確實匯率會影響我們帳面短期上的收益，但是我跟委員報告，因為長期美元的匯價其實是相對穩定的，我們也做過研究，就是……"],["廖委員偉翔：現在是相對穩定，可是其實這一年以來已經掉了很多啊！"],["蘇局長郁卿：對，所以它短期會對我們帳面上產生影響……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以短期的衝擊的確是嘛！對不對？"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：短期的確有衝擊嘛！那你們有沒有去做一個避免風險的相關評估，甚至解套？"],["蘇局長郁卿：有，有，一定會有的。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。剛剛問的是短期的部分，因為今年到4月份顯示的損失已經高達1,990億左右，整體收益率大概是負2.9%，波動是很劇烈的，剛剛報告內容也有提到，勞工保險基金累存餘額截至113年12月是1兆919億，請問到4月底的累存餘額多少？有沒有跌破1兆？"],["蘇局長郁卿：沒有，是1兆994億。"],["廖委員偉翔：1兆994億是到目前為止？"],["蘇局長郁卿：到4月底。"],["廖委員偉翔：到4月底？好。部長，4月份勞保基金會計報表數據顯示，兌換短絀大概是272億5,000萬左右，我們現在擔心的是，股匯雙殺的情況，會不會也反映在基金的數據上？現在的保底機制，也就是保證收益機制，在極端市場波動的時候，有沒有足夠的保障勞工實質的退休權益？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，短期波動是會受影響，但因為我們都是中、長期投資，事實上，如果以長期來看，不管是5年平均或者10年平均，勞保或整個勞動基金的報酬率都有超過6%以上。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，我知道，最近這幾年是都不錯，可是你也知道股市不可能一直這樣，近期短期雖然有虧損，但你們有沒有預設在長期或這一年、兩年都不好的情況下，你們有沒有什麼調整的機制？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，市場……"],["廖委員偉翔：舉例來講，你們會不會因為這樣的長期收益，而考慮調低所謂的保證收益的利率？會不會？"],["蘇局長郁卿：不會，保證收益率應該不會調整。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝，我就是想要問這個答案，因為我們擔心長期虧損會發生這樣的事情，大家都會擔心。"],["洪部長申翰：不會，這部分不會。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝，你這樣有信心的宣示，我覺得很好。但是就勞保基金部分，勞保於2017年首次出現短絀約275.38億，之後每一年短差大概是252億、228億、486億、288億，到2022年時是386億，2023年時擴大到446億，到2024年又擴大到655億，創歷年新高，看下來的邏輯就是這樣，但為什麼到現在還沒有破產？其中一大原因當然是政府撥補，對不對？另外一個原因剛剛也有提到，就是最近基金部分其實是有賺錢的，績效還不錯，這個部分本席也給予肯定，2019年到2023年的平均報酬率大概是7.51%，這我們都很樂見，就是剛剛講的概念，我們當然都很樂見基金的投資都有賺錢，或者收益率都很不錯，可是我覺得這終究有一個上限，不可能天天都在賺錢，對不對？不可能每一年、長期都在賺錢，顯而易見，長期上來看，要蓋過這個基金的缺口單靠投資是不太可能，尤其今年國際局勢動盪、金融市場動盪，很可能今年的收益率會是近年來第一次出現負的。簡單來講，就像剛剛部長提到的，目前為止這個基金之所以還沒有破產，是因為基金有賺錢，所以這件事情就延後了，可是我們可以看到勞保的精算負債數值，基本上是反映了勞工保險制度未來需要支付的總額，對不對？目前為止，勞保精算的負債是用前所未見的每一年超過1兆元的速度迅速在增長，這三年間，金額已經從11兆500億左右攀升到14兆1,000億，足足增加3兆，按照這樣的膨脹速度，這個精算的負債會在5到10年內超過全國的國內生產毛額，也因為有這麼大的缺口，所以大家會這麼緊張。這不是單單靠每年找錢或想辦法撥補就可以讓大家安心，而這正是我們今天整個邏輯順下來要講的政府應負最終支付責任，當然，很多委員都已經有提案修法，但我還是想問部長，你的態度究竟是什麼？剛剛前面邏輯講了這麼多，部長到底支不支持？"],["洪部長申翰：我想有入法、沒入法，目前政府的政策、態度就是政府負最終責任。"],["廖委員偉翔：這是態度，但是沒有入法的話，沒有辦法讓百姓安心，我希望部長可以清楚表態，當然，我們還有很多相關配套必須做，可是我覺得第一步應該要讓百姓安心、民眾安心、勞工安心，所以身為勞動部部長，是不是應該給大家一個具體承諾和方向？"],["洪部長申翰：我們的政策就是這樣子，再來就是我們也看到很多委員的提案，對於這些提案，我們都是尊重，就整體行政團隊來說，我們也認為這個部分我們是持開放的態度，也覺得有討論跟研議的空間。"],["廖委員偉翔：所謂的開放跟研議空間，請問你們接下來具體要怎麼做？我們還是很希望部長可以表態說你們其實是支持的，但可能要有一些配套必須去釐清……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我當然支持政府負最終責任，而且這個事情現在正在做。"],["廖委員偉翔：入法，對不對？你支持入法嘛！對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：我說現在正在做，我當然支持政府負最終責任的這件事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：入法，對不對？你支持……"],["洪部長申翰：這個概念就算不入法，我也支持。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以代表您支持入法，很好，我覺得部長願意這樣講，因為你剛剛這樣講聽起來……"],["洪部長申翰：我說有入法、沒入法我們都是這樣做，所以我當然是支持政府要負最終責任這個概念。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝，希望可以給勞工一個安心……"],["洪部長申翰：我們也希望讓勞工可以安心。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，再來請問另外一題。剛剛這個答案OK，我覺得你算是公開表態支持入法這件事。"],["洪部長申翰：我是支持政府……"],["廖委員偉翔：政府負擔最終責任這件事。"],["洪部長申翰：我支持政府負起財務最終責任的這件事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，因為我剛剛邏輯已經講得很清楚了，這題先到這裡。另外，我要跟你請教一個問題，就是無薪假來襲，要如何保障勞工子女的權益？到目前為止，共有155家企業、2,831人實施減班休息，也就是所謂的放無薪假，其中因為美國關稅政策而實施無薪假的企業大概是20家、827人，較前一期統計基本上是倍增，反映其對於就業市場的衝擊開始擴大，為了減輕這種非自願離職失業勞工子女的就學負擔，勞動部本來就有失業勞工子女就學補助，就是針對非自願離職失業勞工子女就讀高中職及大專院校提供就學補助，金額從4,000到2萬元不等，但這個計畫並沒有針對所謂被迫放無薪假的勞工子女就學補助。我想接下來的這一波關稅衝擊可能越來越大，勞動部是不是應該提早因應？因為下個學期即將在9月開學，本席是擔心放無薪假的勞工家庭，他們的子女就學會不會也因此受到影響？是不是請貴部回去研議，針對這個部分可以擴大辦理？基本上這是同一個計畫，但可不可以擴大適用範圍到所謂的放無薪假的家庭？譬如被迫放無薪假2個月以上的勞工子女就學，是否可以放入這樣的補助範圍內？"],["洪部長申翰：第一點，我還是想要說明，就臺灣的制度而言，其實我們是減班休息，因為有時候無薪假講久了，會有一些勞工以為真的可以無薪，就是有時候有些勞工聽無薪假聽久了，真的以為是無薪……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，部長，你先不用解釋這個，先針對我的……"],["洪部長申翰：這樣反而會影響他對自己權益的認知。第二點，針對減班休息的勞工，我們現在有「僱用安定措施」跟「充電再出發」可以補貼他們在薪資收入上的差距和損失，而剛剛委員提到的子女就學補貼部分，我想這是不同的政策，不過我們可以綜合做一些考慮，可是我想……"],["廖委員偉翔：你剛剛講的那個，我上次有問過了。"],["洪部長申翰：對於他經濟性支持的作法，目前主要還是設計透過包括「僱用安定措施」跟「充電再出發」。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，您可不可以回去儘速研議這個部分，就是子女的部分，剛剛你提到的「充電再出發」等等，其實之前我都有提到，但你看現在人數都已經翻倍了，如果一直不斷這樣下去，其實會衝得很快……"],["洪部長申翰：我們也密切監測、關注目前的狀況。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我之前有提到包含什麼安心即時上工等等的，但是我今天講的是，既然你們原本有這個計畫，你有沒有試著去研議擴大它的範圍，到現在所謂的減班休息，或者是你說因為被迫放無薪假，這樣子的家庭的子女的就學補助方案，我想部長是不是可以去盤點，然後去了解一下，這樣子會不會讓他們受到衝擊？"],["洪部長申翰：我想我們可以綜合研議怎麼樣來幫助減班休息的勞工可以有更多的協助，我們會綜合來研議，可能也不只是這個部分，因為這確實是不同的計畫。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝，那請問大概要多久？一個月可以嗎？因為我看它翻倍的速度很快，衝擊來得會很快，你們是不是可以儘速？"],["洪部長申翰：我們用一個月的時間研議怎麼樣可以讓減班休息的勞工可以有更多各種方面的支持。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒錯，就是提供各種方面的支持。"],["洪部長申翰：包括權益上面的協助。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝，那一個月內給本席辦公室一個研議的方向和報告，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員，謝謝部長。","接續請黃秀芳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-15","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","麥玉珍","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","李坤城","楊曜","徐欣瑩","林德福","涂權吉"],"page_start":377,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「勞工退休金制度改革，含勞保、勞退執行現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00007"}}}