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{\"start\": 191.792, \"end\": 211.734, \"text\": \"那個報告委員齁 因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使 這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那 呃 但是在現 那個法院主制法105條是是 因為那個憲判八呢 它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 191.792, \"end\": 192.453, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 192.453, \"end\": 192.673, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 192.673, \"end\": 193.354, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 193.354, \"end\": 193.534, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 193.534, \"end\": 193.934, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 193.934, \"end\": 194.515, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 194.515, \"end\": 195.036, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 195.036, \"end\": 195.596, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, 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\"text\": \"好 當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法 憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權 介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 234.369, \"end\": 235.65, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 235.65, \"end\": 235.79, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 235.79, \"end\": 235.95, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 235.95, \"end\": 236.09, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 236.09, \"end\": 236.61, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 236.61, \"end\": 236.71, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 236.71, \"end\": 236.81, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 236.81, \"end\": 236.95, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 236.95, \"end\": 237.17, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 237.17, \"end\": 238.091, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 238.091, \"end\": 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\"end\": 941.937, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 941.937, \"end\": 942.117, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 942.117, \"end\": 942.137, \"score\": 0.094}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,319 --> 00:00:25,734\n好主席好這邊有請王複密麻煩複密李廳長抱歉是刑事廳的李大仁廳長好謝謝你\n\n2\n00:00:35,395 --> 00:00:46,368\n這個這次立法院所提出的針對反廢死的公投俗稱反廢死的公投那麼很遺憾中選會既然他這個\n\n3\n00:00:48,471 --> 00:00:58,776\n對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查同時呢又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投我在這裡要借這個機會要譴責中選會他根本無權審查那麼也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投這個已經是這個明顯的違法違反\n\n4\n00:01:11,522 --> 00:01:33,423\n公投法的相關的規定那麼當然這次中選會他主要認為說我們立法院所提出的這個公投就是你是否同意對於這個各級法院法官判處死刑不需要一致決的這個議題他認為這不是重大政策\n\n5\n00:01:34,544 --> 00:01:47,892\n而是属于立法原则创制那当然对于中选会我就刚刚已经一开始就说他根本无权审查到底立法院所出的公投案是属于哪个性质\n\n6\n00:01:48,919 --> 00:02:12,560\n坦白說他真的沒有權利去進行審查更何況我們這次所提出的公投的命題也非常清楚他就是涉及到一個重大政策重大立法政策重大立法政策這個立法原則的創制其實也是完全不同的概念所以我在這裡我想請教就是說因為在現在法院組織法105條裡面清楚的規定\n\n7\n00:02:16,403 --> 00:02:21,320\n法官評議是以過半數的意見決定之那麼如果說是\n\n8\n00:02:23,872 --> 00:02:46,043\n這個法官的意見有分三說以上的話那麼他有一些相關的規定就是要針對不同的這個意見然後來進行這個按照順序來進行表決那麼所以有關於法院組織法105條的這樣子的一個規定未來如果要修正\n\n9\n00:02:47,288 --> 00:03:09,267\n我們要檢討譬如說到底對於法官過半數評議的這樣子的一個決定的標準是不是應該要改採三分之二四分之三乃至於一致決的這樣子一個修改請問複密您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策\n\n10\n00:03:11,792 --> 00:03:31,734\n那個報告委員齁因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那呃但是在現那個法院主制法105條是是因為那個憲判八呢它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁\n\n11\n00:03:32,375 --> 00:03:53,569\n那我們那個司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第38條第一項就是它那個規定說那個憲法法庭的判決有拘束各機關及人民的效力那各機關有實現判決內容的義務所以說這個法院組織法105條這個規定呢目前我們也有在那個做那個研議修法的研議\n\n12\n00:03:54,369 --> 00:04:22,844\n好當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻\n\n13\n00:04:24,115 --> 00:04:51,982\n那麼更何況這當然在德國也有不同的法學裡也都認為說不見得大法官他的這個憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的那麼所以接下來的這個修法會如何提案那當然我本席這裡也會提案修法那麼當然我更期待的是很快就可以看到司法院然後乃至於這法務部的這個相關的修法請問現在司法院\n\n14\n00:04:52,762 --> 00:05:16,662\n已經有針對相關的修法有進行已經開始進行討論了嗎有沒有召開過公聽會對外召開公聽會我們是召開諮詢會因為那個範圍比較小然後內容也比較特定所以是召開諮詢會已經進行了三次了所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議是但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會目前沒有\n\n15\n00:05:17,764 --> 00:05:19,428\n你們考量是什麼?這個議題難道不是涉及跟我們廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:25,686 --> 00:05:51,242\n我想王富明很清楚知道憲判48號做出來之後尤其對於這個法官要不要判處死刑自覺的這個事情已經引起了全國民眾非常多民眾而且尤其是被害者家屬的不滿那這樣的議題上面難道不需要邀請相關的團體來進行一起討論嗎報告委員這個部分因為我們是依據那個憲判8他那個主文所揭示的那個內容\n\n17\n00:05:53,211 --> 00:06:13,325\n所做的那個修法所以就是說基於大法官的決定那麼根本就也不需要再跟民眾對話民眾溝通司法院難道不需要負責去幫忙這個大法官去說服民眾去接受一致決的判決\n\n18\n00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:38,389\n當然也知道其實現在整個民意是反彈的然後我們立法院要提出公投然後希望讓民眾能夠透過這次機會能夠來表達自己的意見可是中選會莫名其妙它明明就是一個小小的二級的行政機關竟然還有權力來否決立法院所提出的公投這是非常不恰當的\n\n19\n00:06:40,474 --> 00:07:06,071\n那么司法院你们作为法院组织法的这个主管的修法主管机关你们为了要提出修法在这个议题上面本心认为说司法院还是应该要召开公听会即便你们知道可能以你们的立场不太可能会去做出跟大法官判决相违背的这个修法建议但是在这个过程当中就是一个很好的跟民众\n\n20\n00:07:06,992 --> 00:07:18,448\n相互溝通然後說服民眾或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見能夠說給民眾聽我在這裡是不是要求司法院應該要召開公聽會\n\n21\n00:07:20,354 --> 00:07:44,700\n這個我們部分我們回去演繹我要再提醒就是啊司法的這個人民對司法的信賴對司法的了解其實就是在這個相互的政策的溝通的過程當中一步一步的進行如果司法院完全不聆聽民意不去進行相關法案溝通的話我覺得這是非常\n\n22\n00:07:45,620 --> 00:08:07,471\n我寫一件事情然後接下來我要再談的就是有關於在大法官宪判這八號做成之後有關於一致決的部分在適用在國民法官的審理案件上面所出現的矛盾那麼依照這個你們現在司法院最新在網頁上面公告的說明未來對於可能判處死刑的案件\n\n23\n00:08:08,803 --> 00:08:37,831\n必須要由國民法官至少要有三個人以上以及法官三個人同意才可以判處死刑是那麼其實依照你們這樣子的一個一個認定依照大法官的這個憲判制的八號所做出來的這樣子的一個說明其實它會凸顯一個問題就是如果說未來國民法官有六個人都是做出了一致決的判死決定\n\n24\n00:08:39,293 --> 00:09:07,065\n然後呢其中這三位職業法官兩個是贊成要判處死刑一個是不贊成判處死刑那麼就代表說這個案子是根本不成立對不對就會變成是九位國民法官加兩位職業法官總共九票是贊成判處死刑但是一票是不同意就全盤否認了否決了可以判處死刑的可能性\n\n25\n00:09:08,539 --> 00:09:23,979\n我想王富明應該會知道像這樣子的一個這個評議決定做成之後他可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈那更重要的是本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度就是要這個\n\n26\n00:09:27,253 --> 00:09:51,790\n制定國民法官法引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突你們自己的當時國民法官法在做宣導的時候還說國民法官是實現你心中的正義結果有嗎依照現在憲判自8號這個判決做成之後國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎顯然沒有嘛\n\n27\n00:09:58,729 --> 00:10:16,386\n對不對所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要去好好的去思考怎麼去解決國民法官的這個問題未來修法是不是一定要叫三位法官職業法官一定要一致決的這部分\n\n28\n00:10:17,895 --> 00:10:30,293\n要進行好好的研析否則的話我認為這樣的一個決定基本上呢事實上就等於是保護了那個極少數的否決權\n\n29\n00:10:32,315 --> 00:10:45,073\n那事實上大法官憲判這八號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力我個人認為是這樣那麼這個是急不妥的那本席希望說你們可以考慮這個問題然後最後還有一個議題比較簡單\n\n30\n00:10:49,708 --> 00:11:10,864\n本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求那麼當然其中特別是有關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項那我認為很重要這本席未來也會負責任的提出相關的修法可是呢這當中其實\n\n31\n00:11:12,666 --> 00:11:26,897\n強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得只是一定要透過修法有些事情似乎是司法院你現在就可以立即進行改善的譬如說被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位的問題\n\n32\n00:11:28,118 --> 00:11:54,480\n我想王富明或許也知道其實在過去已經有非常多的被害者家屬團體那麼以及也有一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛的提出對於整個在法庭上面的席位的安排那麼非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬那麼這個部分其實是司法院直接修改\n\n33\n00:11:55,936 --> 00:12:05,810\n法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎\n\n34\n00:12:07,796 --> 00:12:32,104\n有沒有試圖的要去改善現在的席位這個部分因為目前的訴訟關係它還是一個三角結構就是在刑事部分檢察官跟那個被告這邊還有那個法院是那個審判者那那個被害人他當然他有他那個地位可是因為他並不是當事人所以說他不坐在這個檢察官這個席位\n\n35\n00:12:33,404 --> 00:12:36,346\n對我們看一下國民法官因為現在你們的這個位置基本上對不起回到前一頁在刑庭的部分的話這個被害人及他的帶領是坐在類似證人鑑定人的位置但是在國民法官的這個法庭的配置上面來講的話他現在是坐在檢察官的後面嘛\n\n36\n00:12:51,577 --> 00:13:18,337\n這也是大家會認為說你們當時在修國民法官法的時候有說要參考日本跟德國的制度但日本跟德國的制度我們看下面圖這日本很清楚啊他的被害參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊啊那在德國法上基本上也是參加這個檢察官旁邊或者是說是他如果說看他如果說真的變成證人身份有時候會在證人的席次但是總是不是在檢察官的後面\n\n37\n00:13:18,897 --> 00:13:42,306\n我覺得這個部分會有什麼困難嗎現在就是如果被害人他透過那個訴訟參加的話那會取得程序上那個地位對他這時候就會坐在檢察官的旁邊就如同這個圖就如日本的配置嗎對那可是如果說是他就是這個作為一個被害人的家屬他如果沒有參與訴訟的話那麼他\n\n38\n00:13:45,560 --> 00:14:12,679\n可以就是應該是他變成成為證人是不是就是他如果說有可能證人或者是說是他可能不具這個身份但是他就只能夠坐在一般的旁聽席就要看他程序上那個地位他有可能那一天是用那個證人身份出現那或者只是說就是這個被函陳述意見那但是只要他只要他就是有那個參與訴訟的話他就會取得程序上的地位\n\n39\n00:14:13,818 --> 00:14:40,697\n所以我想很多被害人的家属可能不太知道在程序上面要怎么去进行那么事实上我们也听到很多被害人家属团结反应他们认为在整个诉讼进行上面被害人家属说他们连发言权都没有那么更何况在位置的配置上面来讲也是凸显出对他们的地位的不尊重那么我认为说其实司法院这边应该要检讨要改善\n\n40\n00:14:41,357 --> 00:14:57,264\n包委員那個我們就是刑事案件在那個準備程序的時候第一庭一開始的時候其實都有告訴那個就會發一個這個訴訟權益告知給被害人跟告訴人那這裡頭其實就有告訴他們說他們可以透過那個訴訟參加來進入到這個訴訟\n\n41\n00:15:01,085 --> 00:15:11,650\n有沒有可能未來把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊或是更靠近讓大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的我想因為這個議題我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告參閱日本跟德國的做法是如何然後可以來就現在我剛講的司法院的席位規則進行修改\n\n42\n00:15:25,877 --> 00:15:42,137\n提一個方案出來吧好不好我們要尊重這個被害人和被害人家屬他們的聲音總是在盡可能的在法律的地位法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇好那麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告好謝謝那我們先做會議宣告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12319\t25734\t好主席好這邊有請王複密麻煩複密李廳長抱歉是刑事廳的李大仁廳長好謝謝你\n35395\t46368\t這個這次立法院所提出的針對反廢死的公投俗稱反廢死的公投那麼很遺憾中選會既然他這個\n48471\t58776\t對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查同時呢又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投我在這裡要借這個機會要譴責中選會他根本無權審查那麼也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投這個已經是這個明顯的違法違反\n71522\t93423\t公投法的相關的規定那麼當然這次中選會他主要認為說我們立法院所提出的這個公投就是你是否同意對於這個各級法院法官判處死刑不需要一致決的這個議題他認為這不是重大政策\n94544\t107892\t而是属于立法原则创制那当然对于中选会我就刚刚已经一开始就说他根本无权审查到底立法院所出的公投案是属于哪个性质\n108919\t132560\t坦白說他真的沒有權利去進行審查更何況我們這次所提出的公投的命題也非常清楚他就是涉及到一個重大政策重大立法政策重大立法政策這個立法原則的創制其實也是完全不同的概念所以我在這裡我想請教就是說因為在現在法院組織法105條裡面清楚的規定\n136403\t141320\t法官評議是以過半數的意見決定之那麼如果說是\n143872\t166043\t這個法官的意見有分三說以上的話那麼他有一些相關的規定就是要針對不同的這個意見然後來進行這個按照順序來進行表決那麼所以有關於法院組織法105條的這樣子的一個規定未來如果要修正\n167288\t189267\t我們要檢討 譬如說到底對於法官過半數評議的這樣子的一個決定的標準是不是應該要改採三分之二 四分之三 乃至於一致決的這樣子一個修改請問 複密 您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策\n191792\t211734\t那個報告委員齁 因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使 這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那 呃 但是在現 那個法院主制法105條是是 因為那個憲判八呢 它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁\n212375\t233569\t那我們那個司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第38條第一項就是它那個規定說那個憲法法庭的判決有拘束各機關及人民的效力那各機關有實現判決內容的義務所以說這個法院組織法105條這個規定呢目前我們也有在那個做那個研議修法的研議\n234369\t262844\t好 當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法 憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權 介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻\n264115\t291982\t那麼更何況這當然在德國也有不同的法學裡也都認為說不見得大法官他的這個憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的那麼所以接下來的這個修法會如何提案那當然我本席這裡也會提案修法那麼當然我更期待的是很快就可以看到司法院然後乃至於這法務部的這個相關的修法請問現在司法院\n292762\t316662\t已經有針對相關的修法有進行已經開始進行討論了嗎有沒有召開過公聽會對外召開公聽會我們是召開諮詢會因為那個範圍比較小然後內容也比較特定所以是召開諮詢會已經進行了三次了所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議是但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會目前沒有\n317764\t319428\t你們考量是什麼?這個議題難道不是涉及跟我們廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎?\n325686\t351242\t我想王富明很清楚知道 憲判48號做出來之後尤其對於這個法官要不要判處死刑 自覺的這個事情已經引起了全國民眾 非常多民眾而且尤其是被害者家屬的不滿那這樣的議題上面難道不需要邀請相關的團體來進行一起討論嗎報告委員 這個部分因為我們是依據那個憲判8他那個主文所揭示的那個內容\n353211\t373325\t所做的那個修法所以就是說基於大法官的決定那麼根本就也不需要再跟民眾對話民眾溝通司法院難道不需要負責去幫忙這個大法官去說服民眾去接受一致決的判決\n375083\t398389\t當然也知道其實現在整個民意是反彈的然後我們立法院要提出公投然後希望讓民眾能夠透過這次機會能夠來表達自己的意見可是中選會莫名其妙它明明就是一個小小的二級的行政機關竟然還有權力來否決立法院所提出的公投這是非常不恰當的\n400474\t426071\t那么司法院你们作为法院组织法的这个主管的修法主管机关你们为了要提出修法在这个议题上面本心认为说司法院还是应该要召开公听会即便你们知道可能以你们的立场不太可能会去做出跟大法官判决相违背的这个修法建议但是在这个过程当中就是一个很好的跟民众\n426992\t438448\t相互溝通然後說服民眾或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見能夠說給民眾聽我在這裡是不是要求司法院應該要召開公聽會\n440354\t464700\t這個我們部分我們回去演繹我要再提醒就是啊司法的這個人民對司法的信賴對司法的了解其實就是在這個相互的政策的溝通的過程當中一步一步的進行如果司法院完全不聆聽民意不去進行相關法案溝通的話我覺得這是非常\n465620\t487471\t我寫一件事情然後接下來我要再談的就是有關於在大法官宪判這八號做成之後有關於一致決的部分在適用在國民法官的審理案件上面所出現的矛盾那麼依照這個你們現在司法院最新在網頁上面公告的說明未來對於可能判處死刑的案件\n488803\t517831\t必須要由國民法官至少要有三個人以上以及法官三個人同意才可以判處死刑是那麼其實依照你們這樣子的一個一個認定依照大法官的這個憲判制的八號所做出來的這樣子的一個說明其實它會凸顯一個問題就是如果說未來國民法官有六個人都是做出了一致決的判死決定\n519293\t547065\t然後呢其中這三位職業法官兩個是贊成要判處死刑一個是不贊成判處死刑那麼就代表說這個案子是根本不成立對不對就會變成是九位國民法官加兩位職業法官總共九票是贊成判處死刑但是一票是不同意就全盤否認了否決了可以判處死刑的可能性\n548539\t563979\t我想王富明應該會知道像這樣子的一個這個評議決定做成之後他可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈那更重要的是本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度就是要這個\n567253\t591790\t制定國民法官法引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突你們自己的當時國民法官法在做宣導的時候還說國民法官是實現你心中的正義結果有嗎依照現在憲判自8號這個判決做成之後國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎顯然沒有嘛\n598729\t616386\t對不對 所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要去好好的去思考怎麼去解決國民法官的這個問題未來修法是不是一定要叫三位法官 職業法官一定要一致決的這部分\n617895\t630293\t要進行好好的研析否則的話我認為這樣的一個決定基本上呢事實上就等於是保護了那個極少數的否決權\n632315\t645073\t那事實上大法官憲判這八號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力我個人認為是這樣那麼這個是急不妥的那本席希望說你們可以考慮這個問題然後最後還有一個議題比較簡單\n649708\t670864\t本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求那麼當然其中特別是有關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項那我認為很重要這本席未來也會負責任的提出相關的修法可是呢這當中其實\n672666\t686897\t強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得只是一定要透過修法有些事情似乎是司法院你現在就可以立即進行改善的譬如說被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位的問題\n688118\t714480\t我想王富明或許也知道其實在過去已經有非常多的被害者家屬團體那麼以及也有一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛的提出對於整個在法庭上面的席位的安排那麼非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬那麼這個部分其實是司法院直接修改\n715936\t725810\t法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎\n727796\t752104\t有沒有試圖的要去改善現在的席位這個部分因為目前的訴訟關係它還是一個三角結構就是在刑事部分檢察官跟那個被告這邊還有那個法院是那個審判者那那個被害人他當然他有他那個地位可是因為他並不是當事人所以說他不坐在這個檢察官這個席位\n753404\t756346\t對 我們看一下國民法官因為現在你們的這個位置基本上 對不起 回到前一頁在刑庭的部分的話這個被害人及他的帶領是坐在類似證人 鑑定人的位置但是在國民法官的這個法庭的配置上面來講的話他現在是坐在檢察官的後面嘛\n771577\t798337\t這也是大家會認為說你們當時在修國民法官法的時候有說要參考日本跟德國的制度但日本跟德國的制度我們看下面圖這日本很清楚啊他的被害參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊啊那在德國法上基本上也是參加這個檢察官旁邊或者是說是他如果說看他如果說真的變成證人身份有時候會在證人的席次但是總是不是在檢察官的後面\n798897\t822306\t我覺得這個部分會有什麼困難嗎現在就是如果被害人他透過那個訴訟參加的話那會取得程序上那個地位對他這時候就會坐在檢察官的旁邊就如同這個圖就如日本的配置嗎對那可是如果說是他就是這個作為一個被害人的家屬他如果沒有參與訴訟的話那麼他\n825560\t852679\t可以就是應該是他變成成為證人是不是就是他如果說有可能證人或者是說是他可能不具這個身份但是他就只能夠坐在一般的旁聽席就要看他程序上那個地位他有可能那一天是用那個證人身份出現那或者只是說就是這個被函陳述意見那但是只要他只要他就是有那個參與訴訟的話他就會取得程序上的地位\n853818\t880697\t所以我想很多被害人的家属可能不太知道在程序上面要怎么去进行那么事实上我们也听到很多被害人家属团结反应他们认为在整个诉讼进行上面被害人家属说他们连发言权都没有那么更何况在位置的配置上面来讲也是凸显出对他们的地位的不尊重那么我认为说其实司法院这边应该要检讨要改善\n881357\t897264\t包委員那個我們就是刑事案件在那個準備程序的時候第一庭一開始的時候其實都有告訴那個就會發一個這個訴訟權益告知給被害人跟告訴人那這裡頭其實就有告訴他們說他們可以透過那個訴訟參加來進入到這個訴訟\n901085\t911650\t有沒有可能未來把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊或是更靠近讓大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的我想因為這個議題我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告參閱日本跟德國的做法是如何然後可以來就現在我剛講的司法院的席位規則進行修改\n925877\t942137\t提一個方案出來吧好不好我們要尊重這個被害人和被害人家屬他們的聲音總是在盡可能的在法律的地位法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇好 那麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告好 謝謝那我們先做會議宣告\n","txt":"好主席好這邊有請王複密麻煩複密李廳長抱歉是刑事廳的李大仁廳長好謝謝你\n這個這次立法院所提出的針對反廢死的公投俗稱反廢死的公投那麼很遺憾中選會既然他這個\n對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查同時呢又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投我在這裡要借這個機會要譴責中選會他根本無權審查那麼也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投這個已經是這個明顯的違法違反\n公投法的相關的規定那麼當然這次中選會他主要認為說我們立法院所提出的這個公投就是你是否同意對於這個各級法院法官判處死刑不需要一致決的這個議題他認為這不是重大政策\n而是属于立法原则创制那当然对于中选会我就刚刚已经一开始就说他根本无权审查到底立法院所出的公投案是属于哪个性质\n坦白說他真的沒有權利去進行審查更何況我們這次所提出的公投的命題也非常清楚他就是涉及到一個重大政策重大立法政策重大立法政策這個立法原則的創制其實也是完全不同的概念所以我在這裡我想請教就是說因為在現在法院組織法105條裡面清楚的規定\n法官評議是以過半數的意見決定之那麼如果說是\n這個法官的意見有分三說以上的話那麼他有一些相關的規定就是要針對不同的這個意見然後來進行這個按照順序來進行表決那麼所以有關於法院組織法105條的這樣子的一個規定未來如果要修正\n我們要檢討 譬如說到底對於法官過半數評議的這樣子的一個決定的標準是不是應該要改採三分之二 四分之三 乃至於一致決的這樣子一個修改請問 複密 您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策\n那個報告委員齁 因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使 這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那 呃 但是在現 那個法院主制法105條是是 因為那個憲判八呢 它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁\n那我們那個司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第38條第一項就是它那個規定說那個憲法法庭的判決有拘束各機關及人民的效力那各機關有實現判決內容的義務所以說這個法院組織法105條這個規定呢目前我們也有在那個做那個研議修法的研議\n好 當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法 憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權 介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻\n那麼更何況這當然在德國也有不同的法學裡也都認為說不見得大法官他的這個憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的那麼所以接下來的這個修法會如何提案那當然我本席這裡也會提案修法那麼當然我更期待的是很快就可以看到司法院然後乃至於這法務部的這個相關的修法請問現在司法院\n已經有針對相關的修法有進行已經開始進行討論了嗎有沒有召開過公聽會對外召開公聽會我們是召開諮詢會因為那個範圍比較小然後內容也比較特定所以是召開諮詢會已經進行了三次了所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議是但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會目前沒有\n你們考量是什麼?這個議題難道不是涉及跟我們廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎?\n我想王富明很清楚知道 憲判48號做出來之後尤其對於這個法官要不要判處死刑 自覺的這個事情已經引起了全國民眾 非常多民眾而且尤其是被害者家屬的不滿那這樣的議題上面難道不需要邀請相關的團體來進行一起討論嗎報告委員 這個部分因為我們是依據那個憲判8他那個主文所揭示的那個內容\n所做的那個修法所以就是說基於大法官的決定那麼根本就也不需要再跟民眾對話民眾溝通司法院難道不需要負責去幫忙這個大法官去說服民眾去接受一致決的判決\n當然也知道其實現在整個民意是反彈的然後我們立法院要提出公投然後希望讓民眾能夠透過這次機會能夠來表達自己的意見可是中選會莫名其妙它明明就是一個小小的二級的行政機關竟然還有權力來否決立法院所提出的公投這是非常不恰當的\n那么司法院你们作为法院组织法的这个主管的修法主管机关你们为了要提出修法在这个议题上面本心认为说司法院还是应该要召开公听会即便你们知道可能以你们的立场不太可能会去做出跟大法官判决相违背的这个修法建议但是在这个过程当中就是一个很好的跟民众\n相互溝通然後說服民眾或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見能夠說給民眾聽我在這裡是不是要求司法院應該要召開公聽會\n這個我們部分我們回去演繹我要再提醒就是啊司法的這個人民對司法的信賴對司法的了解其實就是在這個相互的政策的溝通的過程當中一步一步的進行如果司法院完全不聆聽民意不去進行相關法案溝通的話我覺得這是非常\n我寫一件事情然後接下來我要再談的就是有關於在大法官宪判這八號做成之後有關於一致決的部分在適用在國民法官的審理案件上面所出現的矛盾那麼依照這個你們現在司法院最新在網頁上面公告的說明未來對於可能判處死刑的案件\n必須要由國民法官至少要有三個人以上以及法官三個人同意才可以判處死刑是那麼其實依照你們這樣子的一個一個認定依照大法官的這個憲判制的八號所做出來的這樣子的一個說明其實它會凸顯一個問題就是如果說未來國民法官有六個人都是做出了一致決的判死決定\n然後呢其中這三位職業法官兩個是贊成要判處死刑一個是不贊成判處死刑那麼就代表說這個案子是根本不成立對不對就會變成是九位國民法官加兩位職業法官總共九票是贊成判處死刑但是一票是不同意就全盤否認了否決了可以判處死刑的可能性\n我想王富明應該會知道像這樣子的一個這個評議決定做成之後他可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈那更重要的是本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度就是要這個\n制定國民法官法引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突你們自己的當時國民法官法在做宣導的時候還說國民法官是實現你心中的正義結果有嗎依照現在憲判自8號這個判決做成之後國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎顯然沒有嘛\n對不對 所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要去好好的去思考怎麼去解決國民法官的這個問題未來修法是不是一定要叫三位法官 職業法官一定要一致決的這部分\n要進行好好的研析否則的話我認為這樣的一個決定基本上呢事實上就等於是保護了那個極少數的否決權\n那事實上大法官憲判這八號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力我個人認為是這樣那麼這個是急不妥的那本席希望說你們可以考慮這個問題然後最後還有一個議題比較簡單\n本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求那麼當然其中特別是有關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項那我認為很重要這本席未來也會負責任的提出相關的修法可是呢這當中其實\n強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得只是一定要透過修法有些事情似乎是司法院你現在就可以立即進行改善的譬如說被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位的問題\n我想王富明或許也知道其實在過去已經有非常多的被害者家屬團體那麼以及也有一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛的提出對於整個在法庭上面的席位的安排那麼非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬那麼這個部分其實是司法院直接修改\n法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎\n有沒有試圖的要去改善現在的席位這個部分因為目前的訴訟關係它還是一個三角結構就是在刑事部分檢察官跟那個被告這邊還有那個法院是那個審判者那那個被害人他當然他有他那個地位可是因為他並不是當事人所以說他不坐在這個檢察官這個席位\n對 我們看一下國民法官因為現在你們的這個位置基本上 對不起 回到前一頁在刑庭的部分的話這個被害人及他的帶領是坐在類似證人 鑑定人的位置但是在國民法官的這個法庭的配置上面來講的話他現在是坐在檢察官的後面嘛\n這也是大家會認為說你們當時在修國民法官法的時候有說要參考日本跟德國的制度但日本跟德國的制度我們看下面圖這日本很清楚啊他的被害參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊啊那在德國法上基本上也是參加這個檢察官旁邊或者是說是他如果說看他如果說真的變成證人身份有時候會在證人的席次但是總是不是在檢察官的後面\n我覺得這個部分會有什麼困難嗎現在就是如果被害人他透過那個訴訟參加的話那會取得程序上那個地位對他這時候就會坐在檢察官的旁邊就如同這個圖就如日本的配置嗎對那可是如果說是他就是這個作為一個被害人的家屬他如果沒有參與訴訟的話那麼他\n可以就是應該是他變成成為證人是不是就是他如果說有可能證人或者是說是他可能不具這個身份但是他就只能夠坐在一般的旁聽席就要看他程序上那個地位他有可能那一天是用那個證人身份出現那或者只是說就是這個被函陳述意見那但是只要他只要他就是有那個參與訴訟的話他就會取得程序上的地位\n所以我想很多被害人的家属可能不太知道在程序上面要怎么去进行那么事实上我们也听到很多被害人家属团结反应他们认为在整个诉讼进行上面被害人家属说他们连发言权都没有那么更何况在位置的配置上面来讲也是凸显出对他们的地位的不尊重那么我认为说其实司法院这边应该要检讨要改善\n包委員那個我們就是刑事案件在那個準備程序的時候第一庭一開始的時候其實都有告訴那個就會發一個這個訴訟權益告知給被害人跟告訴人那這裡頭其實就有告訴他們說他們可以透過那個訴訟參加來進入到這個訴訟\n有沒有可能未來把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊或是更靠近讓大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的我想因為這個議題我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告參閱日本跟德國的做法是如何然後可以來就現在我剛講的司法院的席位規則進行修改\n提一個方案出來吧好不好我們要尊重這個被害人和被害人家屬他們的聲音總是在盡可能的在法律的地位法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇好 那麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告好 謝謝那我們先做會議宣告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.319 --> 00:25.734\n好主席好這邊有請王複密麻煩複密李廳長抱歉是刑事廳的李大仁廳長好謝謝你\n\n00:35.395 --> 00:46.368\n這個這次立法院所提出的針對反廢死的公投俗稱反廢死的公投那麼很遺憾中選會既然他這個\n\n00:48.471 --> 00:58.776\n對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查同時呢又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投我在這裡要借這個機會要譴責中選會他根本無權審查那麼也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投這個已經是這個明顯的違法違反\n\n01:11.522 --> 01:33.423\n公投法的相關的規定那麼當然這次中選會他主要認為說我們立法院所提出的這個公投就是你是否同意對於這個各級法院法官判處死刑不需要一致決的這個議題他認為這不是重大政策\n\n01:34.544 --> 01:47.892\n而是属于立法原则创制那当然对于中选会我就刚刚已经一开始就说他根本无权审查到底立法院所出的公投案是属于哪个性质\n\n01:48.919 --> 02:12.560\n坦白說他真的沒有權利去進行審查更何況我們這次所提出的公投的命題也非常清楚他就是涉及到一個重大政策重大立法政策重大立法政策這個立法原則的創制其實也是完全不同的概念所以我在這裡我想請教就是說因為在現在法院組織法105條裡面清楚的規定\n\n02:16.403 --> 02:21.320\n法官評議是以過半數的意見決定之那麼如果說是\n\n02:23.872 --> 02:46.043\n這個法官的意見有分三說以上的話那麼他有一些相關的規定就是要針對不同的這個意見然後來進行這個按照順序來進行表決那麼所以有關於法院組織法105條的這樣子的一個規定未來如果要修正\n\n02:47.288 --> 03:09.267\n我們要檢討譬如說到底對於法官過半數評議的這樣子的一個決定的標準是不是應該要改採三分之二四分之三乃至於一致決的這樣子一個修改請問複密您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策\n\n03:11.792 --> 03:31.734\n那個報告委員齁因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那呃但是在現那個法院主制法105條是是因為那個憲判八呢它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁\n\n03:32.375 --> 03:53.569\n那我們那個司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第38條第一項就是它那個規定說那個憲法法庭的判決有拘束各機關及人民的效力那各機關有實現判決內容的義務所以說這個法院組織法105條這個規定呢目前我們也有在那個做那個研議修法的研議\n\n03:54.369 --> 04:22.844\n好當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻\n\n04:24.115 --> 04:51.982\n那麼更何況這當然在德國也有不同的法學裡也都認為說不見得大法官他的這個憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的那麼所以接下來的這個修法會如何提案那當然我本席這裡也會提案修法那麼當然我更期待的是很快就可以看到司法院然後乃至於這法務部的這個相關的修法請問現在司法院\n\n04:52.762 --> 05:16.662\n已經有針對相關的修法有進行已經開始進行討論了嗎有沒有召開過公聽會對外召開公聽會我們是召開諮詢會因為那個範圍比較小然後內容也比較特定所以是召開諮詢會已經進行了三次了所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議是但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會目前沒有\n\n05:17.764 --> 05:19.428\n你們考量是什麼?這個議題難道不是涉及跟我們廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎?\n\n05:25.686 --> 05:51.242\n我想王富明很清楚知道憲判48號做出來之後尤其對於這個法官要不要判處死刑自覺的這個事情已經引起了全國民眾非常多民眾而且尤其是被害者家屬的不滿那這樣的議題上面難道不需要邀請相關的團體來進行一起討論嗎報告委員這個部分因為我們是依據那個憲判8他那個主文所揭示的那個內容\n\n05:53.211 --> 06:13.325\n所做的那個修法所以就是說基於大法官的決定那麼根本就也不需要再跟民眾對話民眾溝通司法院難道不需要負責去幫忙這個大法官去說服民眾去接受一致決的判決\n\n06:15.083 --> 06:38.389\n當然也知道其實現在整個民意是反彈的然後我們立法院要提出公投然後希望讓民眾能夠透過這次機會能夠來表達自己的意見可是中選會莫名其妙它明明就是一個小小的二級的行政機關竟然還有權力來否決立法院所提出的公投這是非常不恰當的\n\n06:40.474 --> 07:06.071\n那么司法院你们作为法院组织法的这个主管的修法主管机关你们为了要提出修法在这个议题上面本心认为说司法院还是应该要召开公听会即便你们知道可能以你们的立场不太可能会去做出跟大法官判决相违背的这个修法建议但是在这个过程当中就是一个很好的跟民众\n\n07:06.992 --> 07:18.448\n相互溝通然後說服民眾或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見能夠說給民眾聽我在這裡是不是要求司法院應該要召開公聽會\n\n07:20.354 --> 07:44.700\n這個我們部分我們回去演繹我要再提醒就是啊司法的這個人民對司法的信賴對司法的了解其實就是在這個相互的政策的溝通的過程當中一步一步的進行如果司法院完全不聆聽民意不去進行相關法案溝通的話我覺得這是非常\n\n07:45.620 --> 08:07.471\n我寫一件事情然後接下來我要再談的就是有關於在大法官宪判這八號做成之後有關於一致決的部分在適用在國民法官的審理案件上面所出現的矛盾那麼依照這個你們現在司法院最新在網頁上面公告的說明未來對於可能判處死刑的案件\n\n08:08.803 --> 08:37.831\n必須要由國民法官至少要有三個人以上以及法官三個人同意才可以判處死刑是那麼其實依照你們這樣子的一個一個認定依照大法官的這個憲判制的八號所做出來的這樣子的一個說明其實它會凸顯一個問題就是如果說未來國民法官有六個人都是做出了一致決的判死決定\n\n08:39.293 --> 09:07.065\n然後呢其中這三位職業法官兩個是贊成要判處死刑一個是不贊成判處死刑那麼就代表說這個案子是根本不成立對不對就會變成是九位國民法官加兩位職業法官總共九票是贊成判處死刑但是一票是不同意就全盤否認了否決了可以判處死刑的可能性\n\n09:08.539 --> 09:23.979\n我想王富明應該會知道像這樣子的一個這個評議決定做成之後他可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈那更重要的是本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度就是要這個\n\n09:27.253 --> 09:51.790\n制定國民法官法引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突你們自己的當時國民法官法在做宣導的時候還說國民法官是實現你心中的正義結果有嗎依照現在憲判自8號這個判決做成之後國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎顯然沒有嘛\n\n09:58.729 --> 10:16.386\n對不對所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要去好好的去思考怎麼去解決國民法官的這個問題未來修法是不是一定要叫三位法官職業法官一定要一致決的這部分\n\n10:17.895 --> 10:30.293\n要進行好好的研析否則的話我認為這樣的一個決定基本上呢事實上就等於是保護了那個極少數的否決權\n\n10:32.315 --> 10:45.073\n那事實上大法官憲判這八號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力我個人認為是這樣那麼這個是急不妥的那本席希望說你們可以考慮這個問題然後最後還有一個議題比較簡單\n\n10:49.708 --> 11:10.864\n本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求那麼當然其中特別是有關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項那我認為很重要這本席未來也會負責任的提出相關的修法可是呢這當中其實\n\n11:12.666 --> 11:26.897\n強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得只是一定要透過修法有些事情似乎是司法院你現在就可以立即進行改善的譬如說被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位的問題\n\n11:28.118 --> 11:54.480\n我想王富明或許也知道其實在過去已經有非常多的被害者家屬團體那麼以及也有一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛的提出對於整個在法庭上面的席位的安排那麼非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬那麼這個部分其實是司法院直接修改\n\n11:55.936 --> 12:05.810\n法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎\n\n12:07.796 --> 12:32.104\n有沒有試圖的要去改善現在的席位這個部分因為目前的訴訟關係它還是一個三角結構就是在刑事部分檢察官跟那個被告這邊還有那個法院是那個審判者那那個被害人他當然他有他那個地位可是因為他並不是當事人所以說他不坐在這個檢察官這個席位\n\n12:33.404 --> 12:36.346\n對我們看一下國民法官因為現在你們的這個位置基本上對不起回到前一頁在刑庭的部分的話這個被害人及他的帶領是坐在類似證人鑑定人的位置但是在國民法官的這個法庭的配置上面來講的話他現在是坐在檢察官的後面嘛\n\n12:51.577 --> 13:18.337\n這也是大家會認為說你們當時在修國民法官法的時候有說要參考日本跟德國的制度但日本跟德國的制度我們看下面圖這日本很清楚啊他的被害參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊啊那在德國法上基本上也是參加這個檢察官旁邊或者是說是他如果說看他如果說真的變成證人身份有時候會在證人的席次但是總是不是在檢察官的後面\n\n13:18.897 --> 13:42.306\n我覺得這個部分會有什麼困難嗎現在就是如果被害人他透過那個訴訟參加的話那會取得程序上那個地位對他這時候就會坐在檢察官的旁邊就如同這個圖就如日本的配置嗎對那可是如果說是他就是這個作為一個被害人的家屬他如果沒有參與訴訟的話那麼他\n\n13:45.560 --> 14:12.679\n可以就是應該是他變成成為證人是不是就是他如果說有可能證人或者是說是他可能不具這個身份但是他就只能夠坐在一般的旁聽席就要看他程序上那個地位他有可能那一天是用那個證人身份出現那或者只是說就是這個被函陳述意見那但是只要他只要他就是有那個參與訴訟的話他就會取得程序上的地位\n\n14:13.818 --> 14:40.697\n所以我想很多被害人的家属可能不太知道在程序上面要怎么去进行那么事实上我们也听到很多被害人家属团结反应他们认为在整个诉讼进行上面被害人家属说他们连发言权都没有那么更何况在位置的配置上面来讲也是凸显出对他们的地位的不尊重那么我认为说其实司法院这边应该要检讨要改善\n\n14:41.357 --> 14:57.264\n包委員那個我們就是刑事案件在那個準備程序的時候第一庭一開始的時候其實都有告訴那個就會發一個這個訴訟權益告知給被害人跟告訴人那這裡頭其實就有告訴他們說他們可以透過那個訴訟參加來進入到這個訴訟\n\n15:01.085 --> 15:11.650\n有沒有可能未來把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊或是更靠近讓大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的我想因為這個議題我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告參閱日本跟德國的做法是如何然後可以來就現在我剛講的司法院的席位規則進行修改\n\n15:25.877 --> 15:42.137\n提一個方案出來吧好不好我們要尊重這個被害人和被害人家屬他們的聲音總是在盡可能的在法律的地位法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇好那麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告好謝謝那我們先做會議宣告\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.319,"end":25.734,"text":"好主席好這邊有請王複密麻煩複密李廳長抱歉是刑事廳的李大仁廳長好謝謝你"},{"start":35.395,"end":46.368,"text":"這個這次立法院所提出的針對反廢死的公投俗稱反廢死的公投那麼很遺憾中選會既然他這個"},{"start":48.471,"end":58.776,"text":"對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查同時呢又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投我在這裡要借這個機會要譴責中選會他根本無權審查那麼也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投這個已經是這個明顯的違法違反"},{"start":71.522,"end":93.423,"text":"公投法的相關的規定那麼當然這次中選會他主要認為說我們立法院所提出的這個公投就是你是否同意對於這個各級法院法官判處死刑不需要一致決的這個議題他認為這不是重大政策"},{"start":94.544,"end":107.892,"text":"而是属于立法原则创制那当然对于中选会我就刚刚已经一开始就说他根本无权审查到底立法院所出的公投案是属于哪个性质"},{"start":108.919,"end":132.56,"text":"坦白說他真的沒有權利去進行審查更何況我們這次所提出的公投的命題也非常清楚他就是涉及到一個重大政策重大立法政策重大立法政策這個立法原則的創制其實也是完全不同的概念所以我在這裡我想請教就是說因為在現在法院組織法105條裡面清楚的規定"},{"start":136.403,"end":141.32,"text":"法官評議是以過半數的意見決定之那麼如果說是"},{"start":143.872,"end":166.043,"text":"這個法官的意見有分三說以上的話那麼他有一些相關的規定就是要針對不同的這個意見然後來進行這個按照順序來進行表決那麼所以有關於法院組織法105條的這樣子的一個規定未來如果要修正"},{"start":167.288,"end":189.267,"text":"我們要檢討 譬如說到底對於法官過半數評議的這樣子的一個決定的標準是不是應該要改採三分之二 四分之三 乃至於一致決的這樣子一個修改請問 複密 您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策"},{"start":191.792,"end":211.734,"text":"那個報告委員齁 因為那個中選會那個決定這個我們尊重他們職權行使 這個我們司法院我們不方便那個評論那 呃 但是在現 那個法院主制法105條是是 因為那個憲判八呢 它有關於就是死刑一致決這個是它那個判決主文所宣示的齁"},{"start":212.375,"end":233.569,"text":"那我們那個司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第38條第一項就是它那個規定說那個憲法法庭的判決有拘束各機關及人民的效力那各機關有實現判決內容的義務所以說這個法院組織法105條這個規定呢目前我們也有在那個做那個研議修法的研議"},{"start":234.369,"end":262.844,"text":"好 當然本席在這裡我要提出其實我對於憲法 憲判制八號判決是極不認同簡單來說我根本認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決它的大法官已經把手深入立法權 介入立法政策的形成那麼這部分其實憲判制八號的判決我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話這號判決可能會被推翻"},{"start":264.115,"end":291.982,"text":"那麼更何況這當然在德國也有不同的法學裡也都認為說不見得大法官他的這個憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的那麼所以接下來的這個修法會如何提案那當然我本席這裡也會提案修法那麼當然我更期待的是很快就可以看到司法院然後乃至於這法務部的這個相關的修法請問現在司法院"},{"start":292.762,"end":316.662,"text":"已經有針對相關的修法有進行已經開始進行討論了嗎有沒有召開過公聽會對外召開公聽會我們是召開諮詢會因為那個範圍比較小然後內容也比較特定所以是召開諮詢會已經進行了三次了所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議是但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會目前沒有"},{"start":317.764,"end":319.428,"text":"你們考量是什麼?這個議題難道不是涉及跟我們廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎?"},{"start":325.686,"end":351.242,"text":"我想王富明很清楚知道 憲判48號做出來之後尤其對於這個法官要不要判處死刑 自覺的這個事情已經引起了全國民眾 非常多民眾而且尤其是被害者家屬的不滿那這樣的議題上面難道不需要邀請相關的團體來進行一起討論嗎報告委員 這個部分因為我們是依據那個憲判8他那個主文所揭示的那個內容"},{"start":353.211,"end":373.325,"text":"所做的那個修法所以就是說基於大法官的決定那麼根本就也不需要再跟民眾對話民眾溝通司法院難道不需要負責去幫忙這個大法官去說服民眾去接受一致決的判決"},{"start":375.083,"end":398.389,"text":"當然也知道其實現在整個民意是反彈的然後我們立法院要提出公投然後希望讓民眾能夠透過這次機會能夠來表達自己的意見可是中選會莫名其妙它明明就是一個小小的二級的行政機關竟然還有權力來否決立法院所提出的公投這是非常不恰當的"},{"start":400.474,"end":426.071,"text":"那么司法院你们作为法院组织法的这个主管的修法主管机关你们为了要提出修法在这个议题上面本心认为说司法院还是应该要召开公听会即便你们知道可能以你们的立场不太可能会去做出跟大法官判决相违背的这个修法建议但是在这个过程当中就是一个很好的跟民众"},{"start":426.992,"end":438.448,"text":"相互溝通然後說服民眾或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見能夠說給民眾聽我在這裡是不是要求司法院應該要召開公聽會"},{"start":440.354,"end":464.7,"text":"這個我們部分我們回去演繹我要再提醒就是啊司法的這個人民對司法的信賴對司法的了解其實就是在這個相互的政策的溝通的過程當中一步一步的進行如果司法院完全不聆聽民意不去進行相關法案溝通的話我覺得這是非常"},{"start":465.62,"end":487.471,"text":"我寫一件事情然後接下來我要再談的就是有關於在大法官宪判這八號做成之後有關於一致決的部分在適用在國民法官的審理案件上面所出現的矛盾那麼依照這個你們現在司法院最新在網頁上面公告的說明未來對於可能判處死刑的案件"},{"start":488.803,"end":517.831,"text":"必須要由國民法官至少要有三個人以上以及法官三個人同意才可以判處死刑是那麼其實依照你們這樣子的一個一個認定依照大法官的這個憲判制的八號所做出來的這樣子的一個說明其實它會凸顯一個問題就是如果說未來國民法官有六個人都是做出了一致決的判死決定"},{"start":519.293,"end":547.065,"text":"然後呢其中這三位職業法官兩個是贊成要判處死刑一個是不贊成判處死刑那麼就代表說這個案子是根本不成立對不對就會變成是九位國民法官加兩位職業法官總共九票是贊成判處死刑但是一票是不同意就全盤否認了否決了可以判處死刑的可能性"},{"start":548.539,"end":563.979,"text":"我想王富明應該會知道像這樣子的一個這個評議決定做成之後他可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈那更重要的是本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度就是要這個"},{"start":567.253,"end":591.79,"text":"制定國民法官法引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突你們自己的當時國民法官法在做宣導的時候還說國民法官是實現你心中的正義結果有嗎依照現在憲判自8號這個判決做成之後國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎顯然沒有嘛"},{"start":598.729,"end":616.386,"text":"對不對 所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要去好好的去思考怎麼去解決國民法官的這個問題未來修法是不是一定要叫三位法官 職業法官一定要一致決的這部分"},{"start":617.895,"end":630.293,"text":"要進行好好的研析否則的話我認為這樣的一個決定基本上呢事實上就等於是保護了那個極少數的否決權"},{"start":632.315,"end":645.073,"text":"那事實上大法官憲判這八號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力我個人認為是這樣那麼這個是急不妥的那本席希望說你們可以考慮這個問題然後最後還有一個議題比較簡單"},{"start":649.708,"end":670.864,"text":"本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求那麼當然其中特別是有關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項那我認為很重要這本席未來也會負責任的提出相關的修法可是呢這當中其實"},{"start":672.666,"end":686.897,"text":"強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得只是一定要透過修法有些事情似乎是司法院你現在就可以立即進行改善的譬如說被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位的問題"},{"start":688.118,"end":714.48,"text":"我想王富明或許也知道其實在過去已經有非常多的被害者家屬團體那麼以及也有一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛的提出對於整個在法庭上面的席位的安排那麼非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬那麼這個部分其實是司法院直接修改"},{"start":715.936,"end":725.81,"text":"法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎"},{"start":727.796,"end":752.104,"text":"有沒有試圖的要去改善現在的席位這個部分因為目前的訴訟關係它還是一個三角結構就是在刑事部分檢察官跟那個被告這邊還有那個法院是那個審判者那那個被害人他當然他有他那個地位可是因為他並不是當事人所以說他不坐在這個檢察官這個席位"},{"start":753.404,"end":756.346,"text":"對 我們看一下國民法官因為現在你們的這個位置基本上 對不起 回到前一頁在刑庭的部分的話這個被害人及他的帶領是坐在類似證人 鑑定人的位置但是在國民法官的這個法庭的配置上面來講的話他現在是坐在檢察官的後面嘛"},{"start":771.577,"end":798.337,"text":"這也是大家會認為說你們當時在修國民法官法的時候有說要參考日本跟德國的制度但日本跟德國的制度我們看下面圖這日本很清楚啊他的被害參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊啊那在德國法上基本上也是參加這個檢察官旁邊或者是說是他如果說看他如果說真的變成證人身份有時候會在證人的席次但是總是不是在檢察官的後面"},{"start":798.897,"end":822.306,"text":"我覺得這個部分會有什麼困難嗎現在就是如果被害人他透過那個訴訟參加的話那會取得程序上那個地位對他這時候就會坐在檢察官的旁邊就如同這個圖就如日本的配置嗎對那可是如果說是他就是這個作為一個被害人的家屬他如果沒有參與訴訟的話那麼他"},{"start":825.56,"end":852.679,"text":"可以就是應該是他變成成為證人是不是就是他如果說有可能證人或者是說是他可能不具這個身份但是他就只能夠坐在一般的旁聽席就要看他程序上那個地位他有可能那一天是用那個證人身份出現那或者只是說就是這個被函陳述意見那但是只要他只要他就是有那個參與訴訟的話他就會取得程序上的地位"},{"start":853.818,"end":880.697,"text":"所以我想很多被害人的家属可能不太知道在程序上面要怎么去进行那么事实上我们也听到很多被害人家属团结反应他们认为在整个诉讼进行上面被害人家属说他们连发言权都没有那么更何况在位置的配置上面来讲也是凸显出对他们的地位的不尊重那么我认为说其实司法院这边应该要检讨要改善"},{"start":881.357,"end":897.264,"text":"包委員那個我們就是刑事案件在那個準備程序的時候第一庭一開始的時候其實都有告訴那個就會發一個這個訴訟權益告知給被害人跟告訴人那這裡頭其實就有告訴他們說他們可以透過那個訴訟參加來進入到這個訴訟"},{"start":901.085,"end":911.65,"text":"有沒有可能未來把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊或是更靠近讓大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的我想因為這個議題我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告參閱日本跟德國的做法是如何然後可以來就現在我剛講的司法院的席位規則進行修改"},{"start":925.877,"end":942.137,"text":"提一個方案出來吧好不好我們要尊重這個被害人和被害人家屬他們的聲音總是在盡可能的在法律的地位法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇好 那麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告好 謝謝那我們先做會議宣告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":571,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（10時39分）主席好，有請王副秘。"],["主席：麻煩副秘。"],["翁委員曉玲：還有刑事廳李廳長。"],["主席：請廳長。"],["翁委員曉玲：王副秘早安。這次立法院提出針對俗稱反廢死的公投，很遺憾，中選會竟然對於立法院所提出的公投進行審查，同時又拒絕辦理立法院所提出的公投。我在這裡要藉這個機會譴責中選會，它根本無權審查，也無權拒絕辦理立法院所交付的公投，這個已經明顯違反公投法相關的規定。當然這次中選會主要是認為立法院所提出的公投「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策」的這個議題不是重大政策，而是屬於立法原則創制，對於中選會，我剛才一開始就已經說它根本無權審查，到底立法院所提出的公投案是屬於哪個性質，坦白說它真的沒有權力去進行審查，更何況我們這次提出公投的命題也非常清楚，它就是涉及到一個重大政策、重大立法政策，這跟立法原則的創制其實是完全不同的概念。","我在這裡想請教，因為現在法院組織法第一百零五條清楚地規定，法官評議以過半數之意見決定之；如果法官的意見分三說以上的話，它也有一些相關的規定，就是要針對不同的意見，按照順序進行表決。對於法院組織法第一百零五條的規定未來如果要修正，我們要檢討譬如說法官評議過半數這個決定的標準到底是不是應該改採三分之二、四分之三，乃至於一致決的修改，請問副秘，您認為這是不是屬於一個重大的立法政策？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，因為這是中選會的決定，我們是尊重他們職權的行使，司法院不方便評論。但是……"],["翁委員曉玲：法院組織法第一百零五條……"],["王副秘書長梅英：因為憲判第8號解釋有關於死刑一致決，這是那個判決主文所宣示的，我們司法院是基於憲法訴訟法第三十八條第一項規定，憲法法庭的「判決，有拘束各機關及人民之效力；各機關並有實現判決內容之義務」，所以這個法院組織法第一百零五條的這個規定，目前我們也有在做修法的研議。"],["翁委員曉玲：當然，本席在這裡也要提出，其實我對於憲判字第8號判決是極不認同的，簡單來說，我根本就認為它就是一個違憲的憲法判決，大法官已經把手伸入立法權，介入立法政策的形成，這個部分其實憲判字第8號的判決，我相信未來如果換了一批大法官的話，這號判決可能會被推翻。","更何況，這在德國當然也有不同的法學理，也都認為不見得大法官的憲法判決是可以拘束立法機關的，所以接下來的修法會如何提案，本席這裡當然也會提案修法，但我更期待的是，很快就可以看到司法院，乃至於法務部有相關的修法。請問現在司法院已有針對相關的修法開始進行討論了嗎？有沒有對外召開過公聽會？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們是召開諮詢會議，因為那個範圍比較小，然後內容也比較特定，所以是召開諮詢會議，已經進行3次了。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們只是召開專家學者諮詢會議？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是你們都沒有對外召開公聽會？"],["王副秘書長梅英：目前沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：你們的考量是什麼？這個議題難道不是涉及與廣大民眾權益有關的議題嗎？我想王副秘也很清楚知道，憲判字第8號作出來之後，尤其是對於法官要不要判處死刑一致決的這個事情，已經引起全國非常多民眾，尤其是被害者家屬的不滿，對於這樣的議題難道不需邀請相關團體一起進行討論嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，這個部分我們是依據憲判字第8號主文所揭示的內容所做的修法。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以基於大法官的決定，根本就不須要再跟民眾對話、跟民眾溝通？司法院難道不須負責幫忙大法官去說服民眾接受一致決的判決嗎？當你知道現在整個民意是反彈的，立法院要提出公投，希望讓民眾透過這次的機會表達自己的意見，可是中選會莫名奇妙，它明明就是一個小小的二級行政機關，竟然還有權力否決立法院所提出的公投，這是非常不恰當的。","司法院，你們作為法院組織法的主管機關，未來會提出修法，在這個議題上面，本席認為司法院還是應該要召開公聽會，即便你們知道以你們的立場不太可能會作出跟大法官判決相違背的修法建議，但是在這個過程當中，就是一個很好跟民眾相互溝通、說服民眾，或是怎麼樣把大法官的意見說給民眾聽的機會。我在這裡是不是可以要求司法院應該要召開公聽會？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個部分我們會回去研議。"],["翁委員曉玲：我要再提醒的是，人民對司法的信賴、對司法的瞭解其實就是在相互對政策溝通的過程當中一步、一步的進行。如果司法院完全不聆聽民意，不去進行相關法案的溝通的話，我覺得這是一件非常危險的事情。","接下來我要再談的是在大法官憲判字第8號判決作成之後，有關於一致決的部分適用在國民法官審理案件上面所出現的矛盾。依照你們現在司法院最近在網頁上公告的說明，未來對於可能判處死刑的案件，必須至少要有國民法官3個人以上，以及法官3個人同意才可以判處死刑。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：其實依照你們這樣的認定、依照大法官憲判字第8號所作出的說明，它其實會凸顯一個問題，就是如果未來國民法官有6個人都作出了一致決的判死決定，然後其中有3位職業法官，有2個贊成判處死刑，1個不贊成判處死刑，那就代表這個案子根本就不成立，對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：就會變成9位，國民法官加2位職業法官總共9票贊成判處死刑，但是有1票不同意就全盤否決了可以判處死刑的可能性。我想王副秘應該知道，像這樣的評議決定作成之後，它可能會引起整個社會大眾輿論的反彈，更重要的是，本席也認為這跟你當時成立國民法官制度，就是要制定國民法官法，引進國民法官是有很大的矛盾衝突，你們自己當時為國民法官法宣導的時候還說，國民法官是「實現你心中的正義」，結果有嗎？依照現在憲判字第8號的判決作成之後，國民法官可以實現他們心中的正義嗎？顯然沒有嘛！對不對？所以我真的認為司法院其實應該要好好地去思考，怎麼解決國民法官的這個問題，未來修法對於是不是一定要3位職業法官一致決的部分進行好好地研析，否則的話，我認為這樣的決定基本上、事實上就等於是保護了那極少數的否決權。事實上大法官憲判字第8號判決本來就是在保護司法的少數暴力，我個人認為是這樣，這個是極不妥的，本席希望你們可以考慮這個問題。","最後還有一個議題比較簡單，本席之前有參加生命權平等協會的座談會，也聆聽了他們對於強化被害人家屬權益的九大訴求，其中特別是關於強化被害人訴訟參與權的事項，這個我認為很重要，本席未來也會負責任的提出相關修法。可是其實強化被害人訴訟參與權不見得一定要透過修法，有些事情似乎是司法院現在就可以立即進行改善的，譬如被害人及家屬在法庭上面的席位問題。我想王副秘或許也知道，過去已經有非常多被害者、家屬團體以及一些司法實務界的人士都紛紛提出，對於整個法庭上面的席位安排非常不利於被害人以及被害人家屬。這個部分其實是司法院直接修改法庭席位布置規則就可以改善的，不知道司法院這些年來有聆聽到這些民眾的聲音嗎？有沒有試圖要去改善現在的席位？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個部分，因為目前在刑事部分的訴訟關係還是一個三角結構，就是檢察官、被告還有法院，法院是審判者，被害人當然有他的地位，可是他並不是當事人，所以他不坐在檢察官旁邊的席位，他是透過訴訟參加……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們看一下法庭配置，基本上，在刑庭的部分，現在被害人及他的代理人是坐在類似證人、鑑定人的位置，但是在國民法官的法庭配置上面來講的話，他現在是坐在檢察官的後面……"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：你們當時在修國民法官法的時候，有說要參考日本及德國的制度。看下面的圖，但日本的制度很清楚，被害者、參加人就坐在檢察官旁邊，在德國法上，基本上也是，參加人、被害者坐在檢察官旁邊，或者是如果有時候他變成證人的身分，會坐在證人的席次，但總是不是坐在檢察官的後面。這個部分如果這樣改善會有什麼困難嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，現在如果被害人透過訴訟參加的話，會取得程序上的地位，這時候他就會坐在檢察官的旁邊，就如同這個圖上日本……"],["翁委員曉玲：就如同日本的配置嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是、是、是。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是如果他作為被害人的家屬，沒有參與訴訟的話，要他成為證人，是不是？就是他如果是證人，如果他不具這個身分，就只能坐在一般的旁聽席……"],["王副秘書長梅英：就要看他程序上的那個地位，他有可能那天是用證人身分出現，或者是被害人陳述意見，但是只要他參與訴訟的話，就會取得程序上的地位。"],["翁委員曉玲：我想很多被害人的家屬可能不太知道在程序上面要怎麼去進行。事實上，我們也聆聽到很多被害人家屬團體的反映，他們認為在整個訴訟進行上面，有時候被害人家屬連發言權都沒有，更何況在位置的配置上面來講，也是突顯出對他們地位的不尊重，我認為其實司法院應該要檢討改善。"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，刑事案件在準備程序的第一庭一開始的時候，法院就會發一個訴訟權益告知給被害人及告訴人，這裡頭其實就有告訴他們，說他們可以透過訴訟參加進入到這個訴訟。"],["翁委員曉玲：未來有沒有可能把他們的位置放在檢察官的旁邊，或是更靠近？這樣大家會感覺他們的地位是平等的。","關於這個議題，我希望司法院是不是可以給我一份檢討報告，包括參閱日本及德國的作法是如何，是不是可以就我剛剛講的法院的這個行為規則進行修改，提一個方案出來，好不好？我們要尊重被害人還有被害人家屬的聲音，總是盡可能的在法律的地位、法庭的地位上面給他們一個公平的待遇……"],["王副秘書長梅英：是的，委員，我們會提出報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，麻煩一個禮拜給我一份報告，謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：好，謝謝。"],["主席：我們先作會議宣告：因為快11點了，所以待會在羅智強委員詢答完畢之後，我們休息5分鐘，5分鐘就好，讓官員能夠上個廁所……"],["吳委員思瑤：等我問完再……我問完好不好？不好意思，我跟月琴交換了……"],["主席：好，沒問題，這樣子OK。因為我大概都會抓在11點讓大家上個廁所。","那就在吳思瑤委員詢答完畢之後，我們休息5分鐘。","另外，就會議時間，我們中午不休息，上午的會議是持續進行至本日議程所列事項處理完畢為止。","接下來請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-19","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","王育敏","張智倫","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","羅智強","林月琴","張啓楷","陳培瑜","王育敏","陳冠廷","林倩綺"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─ 包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳\n述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57\n條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委\n員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等16人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條\n及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一\n條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條\n文修正草案」案、( 七) 委員邱鎮軍等19 人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員葉\n元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等21人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145701_00005"}}}