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Tahovecahe等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t審查委員黃建賓等16人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t審查委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「建築法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「建築法第六十三條及第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、平均地權條例：\n審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【全案合併詢答；建築法第(十)案如經院會復議則不予審查，建築法第(十一)及(十二)案如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查】【6月4日及5日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T10:46:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T10:54:23+08:00","duration":482,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162209","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162209","tool":"pyannote","id":"162209-pyannote"},"job_id":"HUEUhWynugnVal38","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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\"end\": 480.645, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"弈\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 480.645, \"end\": 480.665, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,218 --> 00:00:31,676\n辛苦齁,有請署長吳副長有請委員好感謝署長齁,這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設那由我們內政委員會安排考察那都有,署長都有到場然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設,尤其是我的選區左營跟南子的幾項大型的包含新台17線的跟這個\n\n2\n00:00:33,297 --> 00:00:46,333\n工程會等等的協調,也得到行政院的支持但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權我先表達對於建築法的第77條的修正\n\n3\n00:00:50,157 --> 00:01:07,731\n那其實高雄市在經過陳忠誠大火之後高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓在三天內對全市三十四棟以上三十年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓都趕快進行了這些公安的稽查\n\n4\n00:01:08,692 --> 00:01:23,123\n那所以高雄市是已經經歷了這些那已經有做了這些包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作那也經過這次大火之後\n\n5\n00:01:25,085 --> 00:01:47,123\n由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後其實普遍超過30年以上大樓對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高大家沒有什麼怨言但是我的選區裡面有一棟有一個社區就是國貿社區非常特殊它到今天它是1985年\n\n6\n00:01:48,903 --> 00:02:01,924\n新建到今天已經超過40年了署長也到現場去看過現場就是可能那時候的瓷磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象但國貿大樓它國貿社區它其實\n\n7\n00:02:03,902 --> 00:02:28,079\n不只有他的這個公共空間裡面還有一些私人產權的土地那他還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決就是他沒有收管委會他是收清潔費每一戶150塊的清潔費所以其實國貿大樓要去改善國貿社區要去改善這些外牆脫落都有非常大的困難\n\n8\n00:02:28,868 --> 00:02:42,558\n那所以其實那天署長包含跟這個高雄市政府其實也對於這個我們都都跟都跟基金整件要有什麼樣的基準等等的都有提出一些建議跟看法啦但是\n\n9\n00:02:44,788 --> 00:03:11,805\n來檢視一下這個我們現在目前整個國土署我們對於老舊公寓大樓整件的補助規範那我們把它做了一個檢討從2022年到2024年中央補助六都的案件其實雙北也沒有啦我就講四都就好了,桃園、台中、台南、高雄一共只有12件那我用這個比例來算一下四都如果是280萬戶\n\n10\n00:03:15,807 --> 00:03:34,136\n6都一共519萬戶接受中央補助4都12件裡面一共只有778戶所以可以成功來申請的那個比例非常的低那我想這邊再跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低你看\n\n11\n00:03:37,732 --> 00:03:53,120\n光看到第一項,大家就往後退看到第二項,又往後退三步看到第三項,那我不申請好了第一項是什麼就是說,有突出修繕工程這種老大樓,你看國貿一堆人來拍照然後你就要討論他的鐵窗再討論他冷氣外露不要了,都不要了,署長拜託政府單位都不要過來了我要跟你申請外強補助\n\n12\n00:04:06,506 --> 00:04:20,761\n你先跟我討論我這些老舊的這些過去的這些現況所以變成我們現在目前可以申請的會有意願來申請的也不多\n\n13\n00:04:21,567 --> 00:04:43,497\n那所以在剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢裡面也有希望說我們在這個老化的房子要老屋延壽的這些那其實我們也希望老屋延壽的這個內容也可以把這種特殊案例的這種像國貿社區急需政府來協助這種案例也放進來署長有沒有這個機會\n\n14\n00:04:45,560 --> 00:05:01,485\n跟委員報告第一個當然委員所垂詢的這個所謂在一到三項裡面大概尤其是屬於這個違章的部分尤其是譬如說鐵窗或這個冷氣突出物這些其實它是佔所謂的比重的問題\n\n15\n00:05:02,421 --> 00:05:18,807\n那其實我理解因為我之前在台南市政府務的時候大概有遇到類似的問題那所以基本上來講現在實務上的做法是我們是用比例來算它不是一個比例都往下降嘛那我們也實際上看了我們這個補助的狀況實在是真的偏低所以再建議國土署這邊來做一個討論所以這個內容我想我們可以來檢討檢討這樣的內容\n\n16\n00:05:28,951 --> 00:05:47,776\n那第二個就是說因為現在的這個老屋延壽的這個部分當時是因為覺得是事半的性質所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓也就大概四到六樓先來事半那因為通常它在結構一律上來講它比較容易達成這個R值45以下\n\n17\n00:05:48,676 --> 00:06:09,663\n這樣一個標準那當然我想就事辦的過程如果是相對上來講成果比較好我想我們後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話我們可以朝這個方向把他一起納進來對我希望其實不只是四到六樓的這些公寓那其實像這個國貿社區他已經超過40年\n\n18\n00:06:10,183 --> 00:06:24,811\n他未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區啦我們希望提早來面對這個問題那也不要說讓他一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決那最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度請部長新台17線新台17線劉部長有請\n\n19\n00:06:34,325 --> 00:07:01,486\n謝謝部長在過去的努力劉立偉期間的努力我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些在最後關頭國防部出了一個大招就說他們需要臨時的戰備跑道需要幫他代菜代件幾個最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報報一個二十幾億的預算也很感謝卓院長這邊\n\n20\n00:07:02,526 --> 00:07:29,487\n知道這一條路的重要性那也補足這先由行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個包含他們的戰備跑道包含他們的這些代菜代件那所以新台17線第二期包含通道借售路這一段都可以開工了謝謝委員的努力沒有我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情但是部長還是要拜託南段這一邊雖然\n\n21\n00:07:30,348 --> 00:07:53,534\n我們的預算有被刪但是我們還是會努力的希望把南段的這個南門圓環相關需要的這些經費我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點讓內政部可以讓我們國土署可以把南段一併補齊可以在明年如期的完工是好我們來努力啦那我想我們這個署長他都有追蹤這個進度那隨時會跟委員來報告好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝\n\n22\n00:07:59,537 --> 00:08:00,665\n好謝謝李博弈委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5218\t31676\t辛苦齁,有請署長吳副長有請委員好感謝署長齁,這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設那由我們內政委員會安排考察那都有,署長都有到場然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設,尤其是我的選區左營跟南子的幾項大型的包含新台17線的跟這個\n33297\t46333\t工程會等等的協調,也得到行政院的支持但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權我先表達對於建築法的第77條的修正\n50157\t67731\t那其實高雄市在經過陳忠誠大火之後高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓在三天內對全市三十四棟以上三十年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓都趕快進行了這些公安的稽查\n68692\t83123\t那所以高雄市是已經經歷了這些那已經有做了這些包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作那也經過這次大火之後\n85085\t107123\t由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後其實普遍超過30年以上大樓對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高大家沒有什麼怨言但是我的選區裡面有一棟有一個社區就是國貿社區非常特殊它到今天它是1985年\n108903\t121924\t新建到今天已經超過40年了署長也到現場去看過現場就是可能那時候的瓷磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象但國貿大樓它國貿社區它其實\n123902\t148079\t不只有他的這個公共空間裡面還有一些私人產權的土地那他還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決就是他沒有收管委會他是收清潔費每一戶150塊的清潔費所以其實國貿大樓要去改善國貿社區要去改善這些外牆脫落都有非常大的困難\n148868\t162558\t那所以其實那天署長包含跟這個高雄市政府其實也對於這個我們都都跟都跟基金整件要有什麼樣的基準等等的都有提出一些建議跟看法啦但是\n164788\t191805\t來檢視一下這個我們現在目前整個國土署我們對於老舊公寓大樓整件的補助規範那我們把它做了一個檢討從2022年到2024年中央補助六都的案件其實雙北也沒有啦我就講四都就好了,桃園、台中、台南、高雄一共只有12件那我用這個比例來算一下四都如果是280萬戶\n195807\t214136\t6都一共519萬戶接受中央補助4都12件裡面一共只有778戶所以可以成功來申請的那個比例非常的低那我想這邊再跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低你看\n217732\t233120\t光看到第一項,大家就往後退看到第二項,又往後退三步看到第三項,那我不申請好了第一項是什麼就是說,有突出修繕工程這種老大樓,你看國貿一堆人來拍照然後你就要討論他的鐵窗再討論他冷氣外露不要了,都不要了,署長拜託政府單位都不要過來了我要跟你申請外強補助\n246506\t260761\t你先跟我討論我這些老舊的這些過去的這些現況所以變成我們現在目前可以申請的會有意願來申請的也不多\n261567\t283497\t那所以在剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢裡面也有希望說我們在這個老化的房子要老屋延壽的這些那其實我們也希望老屋延壽的這個內容也可以把這種特殊案例的這種像國貿社區急需政府來協助這種案例也放進來署長有沒有這個機會\n285560\t301485\t跟委員報告第一個當然委員所垂詢的這個所謂在一到三項裡面大概尤其是屬於這個違章的部分尤其是譬如說鐵窗或這個冷氣突出物這些其實它是佔所謂的比重的問題\n302421\t318807\t那其實我理解因為我之前在台南市政府務的時候大概有遇到類似的問題那所以基本上來講現在實務上的做法是我們是用比例來算它不是一個比例都往下降嘛那我們也實際上看了我們這個補助的狀況實在是真的偏低所以再建議國土署這邊來做一個討論所以這個內容我想我們可以來檢討檢討這樣的內容\n328951\t347776\t那第二個就是說因為現在的這個老屋延壽的這個部分當時是因為覺得是事半的性質所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓也就大概四到六樓先來事半那因為通常它在結構一律上來講它比較容易達成這個R值45以下\n348676\t369663\t這樣一個標準那當然我想就事辦的過程如果是相對上來講成果比較好我想我們後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話我們可以朝這個方向把他一起納進來對我希望其實不只是四到六樓的這些公寓那其實像這個國貿社區他已經超過40年\n370183\t384811\t他未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區啦我們希望提早來面對這個問題那也不要說讓他一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決那最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度請部長新台17線 新台17線劉部長有請\n394325\t421486\t謝謝部長在過去的努力劉立偉期間的努力我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些在最後關頭國防部出了一個大招就說他們需要臨時的戰備跑道需要幫他代菜代件幾個最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報報一個二十幾億的預算也很感謝卓院長這邊\n422526\t449487\t知道這一條路的重要性那也補足這先由行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個包含他們的戰備跑道包含他們的這些代菜代件那所以新台17線第二期包含通道借售路這一段都可以開工了謝謝委員的努力沒有我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情但是部長還是要拜託南段這一邊雖然\n450348\t473534\t我們的預算有被刪但是我們還是會努力的希望把南段的這個南門圓環相關需要的這些經費我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點讓內政部可以讓我們國土署可以把南段一併補齊可以在明年如期的完工是好我們來努力啦那我想我們這個署長他都有追蹤這個進度那隨時會跟委員來報告好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝\n479537\t480665\t好 謝謝李博弈委員\n","txt":"辛苦齁,有請署長吳副長有請委員好感謝署長齁,這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設那由我們內政委員會安排考察那都有,署長都有到場然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設,尤其是我的選區左營跟南子的幾項大型的包含新台17線的跟這個\n工程會等等的協調,也得到行政院的支持但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權我先表達對於建築法的第77條的修正\n那其實高雄市在經過陳忠誠大火之後高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓在三天內對全市三十四棟以上三十年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓都趕快進行了這些公安的稽查\n那所以高雄市是已經經歷了這些那已經有做了這些包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作那也經過這次大火之後\n由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後其實普遍超過30年以上大樓對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高大家沒有什麼怨言但是我的選區裡面有一棟有一個社區就是國貿社區非常特殊它到今天它是1985年\n新建到今天已經超過40年了署長也到現場去看過現場就是可能那時候的瓷磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象但國貿大樓它國貿社區它其實\n不只有他的這個公共空間裡面還有一些私人產權的土地那他還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決就是他沒有收管委會他是收清潔費每一戶150塊的清潔費所以其實國貿大樓要去改善國貿社區要去改善這些外牆脫落都有非常大的困難\n那所以其實那天署長包含跟這個高雄市政府其實也對於這個我們都都跟都跟基金整件要有什麼樣的基準等等的都有提出一些建議跟看法啦但是\n來檢視一下這個我們現在目前整個國土署我們對於老舊公寓大樓整件的補助規範那我們把它做了一個檢討從2022年到2024年中央補助六都的案件其實雙北也沒有啦我就講四都就好了,桃園、台中、台南、高雄一共只有12件那我用這個比例來算一下四都如果是280萬戶\n6都一共519萬戶接受中央補助4都12件裡面一共只有778戶所以可以成功來申請的那個比例非常的低那我想這邊再跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低你看\n光看到第一項,大家就往後退看到第二項,又往後退三步看到第三項,那我不申請好了第一項是什麼就是說,有突出修繕工程這種老大樓,你看國貿一堆人來拍照然後你就要討論他的鐵窗再討論他冷氣外露不要了,都不要了,署長拜託政府單位都不要過來了我要跟你申請外強補助\n你先跟我討論我這些老舊的這些過去的這些現況所以變成我們現在目前可以申請的會有意願來申請的也不多\n那所以在剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢裡面也有希望說我們在這個老化的房子要老屋延壽的這些那其實我們也希望老屋延壽的這個內容也可以把這種特殊案例的這種像國貿社區急需政府來協助這種案例也放進來署長有沒有這個機會\n跟委員報告第一個當然委員所垂詢的這個所謂在一到三項裡面大概尤其是屬於這個違章的部分尤其是譬如說鐵窗或這個冷氣突出物這些其實它是佔所謂的比重的問題\n那其實我理解因為我之前在台南市政府務的時候大概有遇到類似的問題那所以基本上來講現在實務上的做法是我們是用比例來算它不是一個比例都往下降嘛那我們也實際上看了我們這個補助的狀況實在是真的偏低所以再建議國土署這邊來做一個討論所以這個內容我想我們可以來檢討檢討這樣的內容\n那第二個就是說因為現在的這個老屋延壽的這個部分當時是因為覺得是事半的性質所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓也就大概四到六樓先來事半那因為通常它在結構一律上來講它比較容易達成這個R值45以下\n這樣一個標準那當然我想就事辦的過程如果是相對上來講成果比較好我想我們後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話我們可以朝這個方向把他一起納進來對我希望其實不只是四到六樓的這些公寓那其實像這個國貿社區他已經超過40年\n他未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區啦我們希望提早來面對這個問題那也不要說讓他一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決那最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度請部長新台17線 新台17線劉部長有請\n謝謝部長在過去的努力劉立偉期間的努力我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些在最後關頭國防部出了一個大招就說他們需要臨時的戰備跑道需要幫他代菜代件幾個最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報報一個二十幾億的預算也很感謝卓院長這邊\n知道這一條路的重要性那也補足這先由行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個包含他們的戰備跑道包含他們的這些代菜代件那所以新台17線第二期包含通道借售路這一段都可以開工了謝謝委員的努力沒有我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情但是部長還是要拜託南段這一邊雖然\n我們的預算有被刪但是我們還是會努力的希望把南段的這個南門圓環相關需要的這些經費我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點讓內政部可以讓我們國土署可以把南段一併補齊可以在明年如期的完工是好我們來努力啦那我想我們這個署長他都有追蹤這個進度那隨時會跟委員來報告好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝\n好 謝謝李博弈委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.218 --> 00:31.676\n辛苦齁,有請署長吳副長有請委員好感謝署長齁,這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設那由我們內政委員會安排考察那都有,署長都有到場然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設,尤其是我的選區左營跟南子的幾項大型的包含新台17線的跟這個\n\n00:33.297 --> 00:46.333\n工程會等等的協調,也得到行政院的支持但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權我先表達對於建築法的第77條的修正\n\n00:50.157 --> 01:07.731\n那其實高雄市在經過陳忠誠大火之後高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓在三天內對全市三十四棟以上三十年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓都趕快進行了這些公安的稽查\n\n01:08.692 --> 01:23.123\n那所以高雄市是已經經歷了這些那已經有做了這些包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作那也經過這次大火之後\n\n01:25.085 --> 01:47.123\n由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後其實普遍超過30年以上大樓對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高大家沒有什麼怨言但是我的選區裡面有一棟有一個社區就是國貿社區非常特殊它到今天它是1985年\n\n01:48.903 --> 02:01.924\n新建到今天已經超過40年了署長也到現場去看過現場就是可能那時候的瓷磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象但國貿大樓它國貿社區它其實\n\n02:03.902 --> 02:28.079\n不只有他的這個公共空間裡面還有一些私人產權的土地那他還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決就是他沒有收管委會他是收清潔費每一戶150塊的清潔費所以其實國貿大樓要去改善國貿社區要去改善這些外牆脫落都有非常大的困難\n\n02:28.868 --> 02:42.558\n那所以其實那天署長包含跟這個高雄市政府其實也對於這個我們都都跟都跟基金整件要有什麼樣的基準等等的都有提出一些建議跟看法啦但是\n\n02:44.788 --> 03:11.805\n來檢視一下這個我們現在目前整個國土署我們對於老舊公寓大樓整件的補助規範那我們把它做了一個檢討從2022年到2024年中央補助六都的案件其實雙北也沒有啦我就講四都就好了,桃園、台中、台南、高雄一共只有12件那我用這個比例來算一下四都如果是280萬戶\n\n03:15.807 --> 03:34.136\n6都一共519萬戶接受中央補助4都12件裡面一共只有778戶所以可以成功來申請的那個比例非常的低那我想這邊再跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低你看\n\n03:37.732 --> 03:53.120\n光看到第一項,大家就往後退看到第二項,又往後退三步看到第三項,那我不申請好了第一項是什麼就是說,有突出修繕工程這種老大樓,你看國貿一堆人來拍照然後你就要討論他的鐵窗再討論他冷氣外露不要了,都不要了,署長拜託政府單位都不要過來了我要跟你申請外強補助\n\n04:06.506 --> 04:20.761\n你先跟我討論我這些老舊的這些過去的這些現況所以變成我們現在目前可以申請的會有意願來申請的也不多\n\n04:21.567 --> 04:43.497\n那所以在剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢裡面也有希望說我們在這個老化的房子要老屋延壽的這些那其實我們也希望老屋延壽的這個內容也可以把這種特殊案例的這種像國貿社區急需政府來協助這種案例也放進來署長有沒有這個機會\n\n04:45.560 --> 05:01.485\n跟委員報告第一個當然委員所垂詢的這個所謂在一到三項裡面大概尤其是屬於這個違章的部分尤其是譬如說鐵窗或這個冷氣突出物這些其實它是佔所謂的比重的問題\n\n05:02.421 --> 05:18.807\n那其實我理解因為我之前在台南市政府務的時候大概有遇到類似的問題那所以基本上來講現在實務上的做法是我們是用比例來算它不是一個比例都往下降嘛那我們也實際上看了我們這個補助的狀況實在是真的偏低所以再建議國土署這邊來做一個討論所以這個內容我想我們可以來檢討檢討這樣的內容\n\n05:28.951 --> 05:47.776\n那第二個就是說因為現在的這個老屋延壽的這個部分當時是因為覺得是事半的性質所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓也就大概四到六樓先來事半那因為通常它在結構一律上來講它比較容易達成這個R值45以下\n\n05:48.676 --> 06:09.663\n這樣一個標準那當然我想就事辦的過程如果是相對上來講成果比較好我想我們後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話我們可以朝這個方向把他一起納進來對我希望其實不只是四到六樓的這些公寓那其實像這個國貿社區他已經超過40年\n\n06:10.183 --> 06:24.811\n他未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區啦我們希望提早來面對這個問題那也不要說讓他一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決那最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度請部長新台17線新台17線劉部長有請\n\n06:34.325 --> 07:01.486\n謝謝部長在過去的努力劉立偉期間的努力我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些在最後關頭國防部出了一個大招就說他們需要臨時的戰備跑道需要幫他代菜代件幾個最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報報一個二十幾億的預算也很感謝卓院長這邊\n\n07:02.526 --> 07:29.487\n知道這一條路的重要性那也補足這先由行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個包含他們的戰備跑道包含他們的這些代菜代件那所以新台17線第二期包含通道借售路這一段都可以開工了謝謝委員的努力沒有我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情但是部長還是要拜託南段這一邊雖然\n\n07:30.348 --> 07:53.534\n我們的預算有被刪但是我們還是會努力的希望把南段的這個南門圓環相關需要的這些經費我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點讓內政部可以讓我們國土署可以把南段一併補齊可以在明年如期的完工是好我們來努力啦那我想我們這個署長他都有追蹤這個進度那隨時會跟委員來報告好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝\n\n07:59.537 --> 08:00.665\n好謝謝李博弈委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.218,"end":31.676,"text":"辛苦齁,有請署長吳副長有請委員好感謝署長齁,這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設那由我們內政委員會安排考察那都有,署長都有到場然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設,尤其是我的選區左營跟南子的幾項大型的包含新台17線的跟這個"},{"start":33.297,"end":46.333,"text":"工程會等等的協調,也得到行政院的支持但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權我先表達對於建築法的第77條的修正"},{"start":50.157,"end":67.731,"text":"那其實高雄市在經過陳忠誠大火之後高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓在三天內對全市三十四棟以上三十年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓都趕快進行了這些公安的稽查"},{"start":68.692,"end":83.123,"text":"那所以高雄市是已經經歷了這些那已經有做了這些包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作那也經過這次大火之後"},{"start":85.085,"end":107.123,"text":"由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後其實普遍超過30年以上大樓對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高大家沒有什麼怨言但是我的選區裡面有一棟有一個社區就是國貿社區非常特殊它到今天它是1985年"},{"start":108.903,"end":121.924,"text":"新建到今天已經超過40年了署長也到現場去看過現場就是可能那時候的瓷磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象但國貿大樓它國貿社區它其實"},{"start":123.902,"end":148.079,"text":"不只有他的這個公共空間裡面還有一些私人產權的土地那他還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決就是他沒有收管委會他是收清潔費每一戶150塊的清潔費所以其實國貿大樓要去改善國貿社區要去改善這些外牆脫落都有非常大的困難"},{"start":148.868,"end":162.558,"text":"那所以其實那天署長包含跟這個高雄市政府其實也對於這個我們都都跟都跟基金整件要有什麼樣的基準等等的都有提出一些建議跟看法啦但是"},{"start":164.788,"end":191.805,"text":"來檢視一下這個我們現在目前整個國土署我們對於老舊公寓大樓整件的補助規範那我們把它做了一個檢討從2022年到2024年中央補助六都的案件其實雙北也沒有啦我就講四都就好了,桃園、台中、台南、高雄一共只有12件那我用這個比例來算一下四都如果是280萬戶"},{"start":195.807,"end":214.136,"text":"6都一共519萬戶接受中央補助4都12件裡面一共只有778戶所以可以成功來申請的那個比例非常的低那我想這邊再跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低你看"},{"start":217.732,"end":233.12,"text":"光看到第一項,大家就往後退看到第二項,又往後退三步看到第三項,那我不申請好了第一項是什麼就是說,有突出修繕工程這種老大樓,你看國貿一堆人來拍照然後你就要討論他的鐵窗再討論他冷氣外露不要了,都不要了,署長拜託政府單位都不要過來了我要跟你申請外強補助"},{"start":246.506,"end":260.761,"text":"你先跟我討論我這些老舊的這些過去的這些現況所以變成我們現在目前可以申請的會有意願來申請的也不多"},{"start":261.567,"end":283.497,"text":"那所以在剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢裡面也有希望說我們在這個老化的房子要老屋延壽的這些那其實我們也希望老屋延壽的這個內容也可以把這種特殊案例的這種像國貿社區急需政府來協助這種案例也放進來署長有沒有這個機會"},{"start":285.56,"end":301.485,"text":"跟委員報告第一個當然委員所垂詢的這個所謂在一到三項裡面大概尤其是屬於這個違章的部分尤其是譬如說鐵窗或這個冷氣突出物這些其實它是佔所謂的比重的問題"},{"start":302.421,"end":318.807,"text":"那其實我理解因為我之前在台南市政府務的時候大概有遇到類似的問題那所以基本上來講現在實務上的做法是我們是用比例來算它不是一個比例都往下降嘛那我們也實際上看了我們這個補助的狀況實在是真的偏低所以再建議國土署這邊來做一個討論所以這個內容我想我們可以來檢討檢討這樣的內容"},{"start":328.951,"end":347.776,"text":"那第二個就是說因為現在的這個老屋延壽的這個部分當時是因為覺得是事半的性質所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓也就大概四到六樓先來事半那因為通常它在結構一律上來講它比較容易達成這個R值45以下"},{"start":348.676,"end":369.663,"text":"這樣一個標準那當然我想就事辦的過程如果是相對上來講成果比較好我想我們後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話我們可以朝這個方向把他一起納進來對我希望其實不只是四到六樓的這些公寓那其實像這個國貿社區他已經超過40年"},{"start":370.183,"end":384.811,"text":"他未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區啦我們希望提早來面對這個問題那也不要說讓他一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決那最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度請部長新台17線 新台17線劉部長有請"},{"start":394.325,"end":421.486,"text":"謝謝部長在過去的努力劉立偉期間的努力我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些在最後關頭國防部出了一個大招就說他們需要臨時的戰備跑道需要幫他代菜代件幾個最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報報一個二十幾億的預算也很感謝卓院長這邊"},{"start":422.526,"end":449.487,"text":"知道這一條路的重要性那也補足這先由行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個包含他們的戰備跑道包含他們的這些代菜代件那所以新台17線第二期包含通道借售路這一段都可以開工了謝謝委員的努力沒有我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情但是部長還是要拜託南段這一邊雖然"},{"start":450.348,"end":473.534,"text":"我們的預算有被刪但是我們還是會努力的希望把南段的這個南門圓環相關需要的這些經費我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點讓內政部可以讓我們國土署可以把南段一併補齊可以在明年如期的完工是好我們來努力啦那我想我們這個署長他都有追蹤這個進度那隨時會跟委員來報告好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":479.537,"end":480.665,"text":"好 謝謝李博弈委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":537,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時46分）辛苦了，有請署長。"],["主席：吳署長有請。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：感謝署長這段時間常常為了高雄地方的建設，由我們內政委員會安排考察，署長都有到場，然後來協助高雄的一些地方的建設，尤其是我的選區左營跟楠梓的幾項大型的工程，包含新台17線跟工程會等等的協調，那也得到行政院的支持。但今天我們所安排的是建築法跟平均地權，我先表達對於建築法第七十七條修正的一些意見，其實高雄市在經過城中城大火之後，高雄市政府其實對於所有的這些老舊大樓，在3天內對全市34棟以上30年沒有成立管委會的這些大樓，都趕快進行了公安的稽查，所以高雄市是已經經歷了這一些，已經有做了包含協助成立管委會或者是負責人等等的這些工作。經過了這次大火，由高雄市政府做的這些安檢之後，其實普遍超過30年以上的大樓，對於消防安檢以及要做這些相關改善的接受度頗高，大家沒有什麼怨言。","但是我的選區裡面有一個社區是果貿社區，它非常特殊，它是1985年興建的，到今天已經超過40年了，署長也到現場去看過，現場就是磁磚等等都會有一些脫落的現象，但果貿社區其實不是只有它的公共空間，裡面還有一些私人產權的土地，它還有一個很嚴重的問題沒有辦法解決，就是它沒有管委會，它是收清潔費，每一戶150塊的清潔費，所以其實果貿社區要去改善外牆脫落都有非常大的困難。","其實那天署長跟高雄市政府也對都更基金整建要有什麼樣的基準等等提出一些建議跟看法，但是來檢視一下目前整個國土署對於老舊公寓大樓整建的補助規範，我們把它做了一個檢討，從2022年到2024年，中央補助六都的案件，其實雙北也沒有，我就講四都就好了，桃園、臺中、臺南、高雄一共只有12件，那我用這個比例來算一下，四都如果是280萬戶……六都一共519萬戶，接受中央補助四都，12件裡面一共只有778戶，所以可以成功來申請的比例非常的低。我這邊想跟署長再進一步的來探討為什麼比例那麼低，你看，剛光看到第一項，大家就往後退，看到第二項又往後退三步，看到第三項，好！那我不申請好了。","第一項是什麼？有突出修繕工程，這種老大樓，你看果貿，一堆人來拍照，然後你就要討論它的鐵窗，再討論它冷氣外露，那我不要了，我都不要了。署長，拜託政府單位都不要過來了，我要跟你申請外牆補助，你先跟我討論老舊的這些、過去的這些現況，所以變成我們目前可以申請的，會有意願來申請的也不多。剛剛其實其他委員也有質詢，也希望說我們這些老化的房子，需要老屋延壽的這些，其實我們也希望老屋延壽的內容可以把這種特殊的案例，像果貿社區這種急需政府來協助的也放進來。署長，有沒有這個機會？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，第一個，當然委員所垂詢的這個，所謂在一到三項裡面，尤其是屬於違章的部分，譬如鐵窗或冷氣突出物，這些其實它是占所謂的比重問題，其實我理解，因為我之前在臺南市政府服務的時候，大概有遇到類似的問題，所以基本上來講，現在實務上的作法，我們是用比例來算，它不是一個……"],["李委員柏毅：對啊！但比例都往下降……"],["吳署長欣修：對，一個是比例。"],["李委員柏毅：我們也實際上看了補助的狀況，說實在是真的偏低，所以建議國土署這邊來做一個討論跟調整。"],["吳署長欣修：這個內容我想我們可以來檢討。"],["李委員柏毅：好。"],["吳署長欣修：檢討這樣的內容。第二個，現在老屋延壽的這個部分，當時因為是試辦的性質，所以大致上會以無電梯公寓的大樓，大概是4到6樓先來試辦，因為通常它在結構疑慮上來講，它比較容易達成R值45以下這樣的一個標準。當然試辦的過程如果相對上來講成果比較好，後續院裡面如果支持變成一個常態性的公務預算的話，我們可以朝這個方向把它一起納進來。"],["李委員柏毅：對，其實不只是4到6樓的這些公寓，像果貿社區已經超過40年，它未來一定也會是需要政府進去協助的一個社區，我們希望提早來面對這個問題，也不要說讓它一直放在那邊沒有辦法解決。","最後我想要針對新台17線最後的進度，請部長。"],["主席：劉部長有請。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝部長在過去的努力，劉立委期間的努力，我們也跟內政部有申請到生活圈道路等等的這一些，那在最後關頭，國防部出了一個大招，就是他們需要臨時的戰備跑道，需要幫它代拆代建幾個，最後由公共工程委員會跟行政院來報一個二十幾億的預算，也很感謝卓院長知道這條路的重要性，行政院有協調好國防部先用基金來補足這個，包含他們的戰備跑道、包含他們的這些代拆代建，所以新台17線第2期，包含通到介壽路這一段都可以開工了。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的努力。"],["李委員柏毅：沒有，我是接著部長繼續來做這個事情，但是部長還是要拜託，南段這邊雖然我們的預算有被刪，但是我們還是會努力，希望把南段的南門圓環相關需要的這些經費，我當然希望高雄市政府再精簡一點，讓內政部國土署可以把南段一併補齊，可以在明年如期的完工。"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們來努力，我想署長他都有追蹤這個進度，隨時會跟委員來報告。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝、謝謝部長、謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員。","下一位我們請許宇甄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-24","speakers":["牛煦庭","陳菁徽","顏寬恒","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、建築法：(一)審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「建築法第九十一條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員顏寬恒等21 人擬具「建築法第七十三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 三) 審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃建賓等16\n人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員徐巧芯\n等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第\n九十七條條文修正草案」案、( 七) 審查委員顏寬恒等17 人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草\n案」案、(八)審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案、(九)審查委員\n陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)審查台灣\n民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二、平均地權條\n例：審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145601_00005"}}}