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11:05:17","影片長度":"00:09:55","會議時間":"2025-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二案（九）至（十一）如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T10:55:22+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T11:05:17+08:00","duration":595,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-3-36-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162213","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162213","tool":"pyannote","id":"162213-pyannote"},"job_id":"q2Caycxi5MlDH0M8","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 54.84, \"end\": 54.98, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 54.98, \"end\": 55.08, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 55.08, \"end\": 55.1, \"score\": 0.072}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 59.008, \"end\": 82.121, \"text\": \"那個今年還沒有統計 那我們會後會提出數據給委員好 那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看 2015年132個罪次裡面 判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 59.008, \"end\": 59.308, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 59.308, \"end\": 59.468, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 59.468, \"end\": 59.748, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 59.748, \"end\": 59.848, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 59.848, \"end\": 60.329, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 60.329, \"end\": 60.509, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 60.509, \"end\": 60.649, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 60.649, \"end\": 61.089, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 61.089, \"end\": 61.269, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 61.269, \"end\": 61.97, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 61.97, \"end\": 62.61, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 62.61, \"end\": 63.431, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 63.431, \"end\": 63.651, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 63.651, \"end\": 64.131, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 64.131, \"end\": 64.291, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 64.291, \"end\": 64.491, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 64.491, \"end\": 64.591, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 64.591, \"end\": 64.711, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 64.711, 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\"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 71.535, \"end\": 71.935, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 71.935, \"end\": 72.336, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 72.336, \"end\": 73.156, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 73.156, \"end\": 73.516, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 73.516, \"end\": 73.956, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 73.956, \"end\": 76.438, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"佔\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 76.438, \"end\": 76.618, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 76.618, \"end\": 76.798, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"徒\", \"start\": 76.798, \"end\": 76.998, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 76.998, \"end\": 79.119, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 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沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 85.623, \"end\": 86.003, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 86.003, \"end\": 86.284, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 86.284, \"end\": 87.765, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 87.765, \"end\": 88.005, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 88.005, \"end\": 88.245, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 88.245, \"end\": 88.446, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 88.446, \"end\": 88.586, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 88.586, \"end\": 89.907, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 89.907, \"end\": 90.127, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 90.127, \"end\": 90.327, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 90.327, \"end\": 90.467, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 90.467, \"end\": 90.567, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 90.567, 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219.318, \"end\": 219.338, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 222.481, \"end\": 243.006, \"text\": \"到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 222.481, \"end\": 223.641, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 223.641, \"end\": 223.861, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 223.861, \"end\": 224.081, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 224.081, \"end\": 224.301, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 224.301, \"end\": 225.882, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 225.882, \"end\": 226.782, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 226.782, \"end\": 227.762, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 227.762, \"end\": 227.962, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 227.962, 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{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 465.007, \"end\": 465.347, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 465.347, \"end\": 465.447, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 465.447, \"end\": 465.547, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 465.547, \"end\": 465.787, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 465.787, \"end\": 465.967, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 465.967, \"end\": 466.127, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 466.127, \"end\": 466.268, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 466.268, \"end\": 466.548, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 466.548, \"end\": 466.688, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 466.688, \"end\": 466.888, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 466.888, \"end\": 467.088, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 467.088, \"end\": 467.248, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 467.248, 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 591.993, \"end\": 592.054, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 592.054, \"end\": 592.074, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,571 --> 00:00:09,995\n有請法務部長還有司法院副秘書長麻煩部長副秘書長委員長\n\n2\n00:00:14,912 --> 00:00:35,526\n今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則希望建立一套相關的判準來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議這當然是一個正確的改革方向但我今天要提一些實際的數據跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論\n\n3\n00:00:36,647 --> 00:00:55,100\n那我先請教一下我們的司法院以刑法271條第一項故意殺人罪來看近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比例以及有期徒刑的平均刑度是上升還是下降司法院知道嗎\n\n4\n00:00:59,008 --> 00:01:22,121\n那個今年還沒有統計那我們會後會提出數據給委員好那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看2015年132個罪次裡面判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月\n\n5\n00:01:25,623 --> 00:01:47,462\n那去年一到八月的數據死刑你知道是多少嗎?判多少個死刑?百分之多少?在所有罪次裡面我告訴你零啦沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說\n\n6\n00:01:51,516 --> 00:02:19,486\n以2015跟去年的來對比的話判死的佔比從3.8降到0然後從無期徒刑是從17.4提高到19.4那有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月所以看到整體刑度實際上是下滑尤其是在死刑這個部分\n\n7\n00:02:20,026 --> 00:02:39,696\n事實上在台灣為什麼外面都說大家評價是實質廢死因為從比例跟數據來看他就是已經歸零實質廢死在判決的部分那當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀\n\n8\n00:02:40,697 --> 00:03:04,226\n不過整體趨勢來看的話就是殺人罪的刑度下降不只是判死的比例連刑期都是那這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評說實質廢死的一個問題那我再想要請教那今天排審的是刑法286條就是虐待兒少致死罪\n\n9\n00:03:06,482 --> 00:03:23,998\n因為這十年來就2015到2024年只有一件無期徒刑那我想請問一下司法院針對這一個所謂的虐待兒少致死罪這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度您知道是上升還是下降嗎\n\n10\n00:03:27,086 --> 00:03:39,338\n這部分我們手上沒有資料可以匯後提供我們這邊也調出一些數據那一樣是以地方法院數據來看的話2021年有期徒刑平均刑度是63.6個月\n\n11\n00:03:42,481 --> 00:04:03,006\n到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件\n\n12\n00:04:03,846 --> 00:04:24,183\n被判五年以上有期徒刑者18件佔比不到兩成一年以下大概是53件佔比是五成四那一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題就是說不管是地方法院判決高等法院判決最高法院判決那也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都有在下降\n\n13\n00:04:24,904 --> 00:04:40,380\n那這就說外界為什麼會有一些覺得我們似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全你光從形式保障來看的話就外面就有人覺得說兒童是最脆弱的最需要保護的\n\n14\n00:04:41,181 --> 00:05:09,740\n但是在刑法來去所謂的遏止對於兒童的肆虐重大的一個傷害的這種情況實際上我們的保護相對來講從這個整個的判刑的一個刑度來看外界可能就認為有所不足那這個是我看到一個問題那當然去年7月16號就已經修正有提高刑度啦但是目前還沒有適用刑法的判決出現嘛對不對目前還沒有啦\n\n15\n00:05:13,099 --> 00:05:36,488\n應該是還沒有因為時間上的關係沒有啦因為現在還剛剛而已嘛對不對以那個訴訟程序來看不會那麼快那所以但是根據內政部的資料家外受虐致死人數比起113年修法前後數修法前是零人啦那修法後是出現三個案例那去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本新的版本\n\n16\n00:05:37,088 --> 00:05:55,863\n才剛剛一讀還沒有納到這次審理那我的修法重點包括增列死刑啊對於這個7歲以上未滿12歲之人肆虐致死傷可以加重刑期到二分之一就是說有在刑徒的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題那我要想請問法務部您覺得\n\n17\n00:06:00,747 --> 00:06:18,262\n這個部長你覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據不管從死刑啊從故意殺人罪乃到於虐待兒童致死罪啊你覺得這個一直在刑度一直在下降判刑的這個所謂的那個強度一直在下降我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情跟社會期待\n\n18\n00:06:19,102 --> 00:06:36,987\n是不是有落差以現行的來講的話那我們希望這個對兒童的保護一定要非常的完備那零容忍那有對一些零內或者傷害兒童甚至殺害的所以我們是認為要嚴懲不要我想這是一個形式的態度跟政策\n\n19\n00:06:37,867 --> 00:07:03,595\n那這一次的一個凱案那我們覺得是我們對我們也在檢視說我們的法規是不是有要更充實的一個地方所以我們也在做一個研修一個研修所以昨日跟明天我們都有一個研修的一個會議那我們也希望把我們的研修的一個立法的方向跟各界來做一個對話那我想我們會儘快提出我們的一個版本出來\n\n20\n00:07:04,255 --> 00:07:26,507\n那就謝謝部長,因為我在質詢的時候你也其實我覺得你態度基本上我也有肯定啦,就是至少你要往這方向去做那我想請教,因為上次法務部承諾三個月可以提出版本嘛,這個承諾還是沒改變嗎?對,我們是三個月要提出,希望能夠提出那我再問細一點,就是說修法的方向目前會包括針列死刑嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:27,843 --> 00:07:47,528\n修好的方向對那個我們是認為對未滿7歲的兒童的零列上次我在委員會就有提到如果以零列這部分來當作殺人的方法我認為這個是要脫離那個加重結果患的一個問題認為直接進入到殺人的一個加重的一個室友那這部分我們是希望能夠有再加重的一個行動\n\n22\n00:07:48,608 --> 00:08:14,579\n所以考量嘛死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎那個殺人罪如果說以這個凌劣的方式來殺人那本來就是有死刑的一個選項了嘛一個刑度那這部分我們會往這部分來做一個再加重的一個考量因為這跟那個加重結果犯因為究竟不是殺人的一個範例下去凌劣的方式有可能是傷害或者甚至用殺人的\n\n23\n00:08:15,259 --> 00:08:36,874\n直接故意或間接故意這個都有那如果說有這部分的話我們就納入了殺人的範疇來做一個規範反正基本上方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識啦但是修法上法務部就是往這個方向怎麼去更周延去看對因為還有那個不得假釋這部分我們也有納入做這邊的一個考量\n\n24\n00:08:37,734 --> 00:08:52,389\n那我最後再提醒一下我們根據衛福部的資料統計2024年兒童跟少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人是9年新高33人說真的看了都很難過啦\n\n25\n00:08:53,950 --> 00:09:13,808\n因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己結果他們卻面對到這麼大的一個風險你說光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死其實坦白講真的是非常讓人家心痛所以換言之不是只有一個凱凱他其實有去年就這個2024年就有33個凱凱\n\n26\n00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:44,419\n而且是九年來的新高那這個嚴重程度當然不完全說今天透過我們法務部或法院的判決還包括我們整個政府對於所謂的受虐兒童的保護的機制都要做系統性的檢討跟反省因為真的不能讓這樣的一個悲劇一直在發生在兒童身上那最後我要講就是說事實上目前兒少的虐待事件其實真的蠻嚴重那政府\n\n27\n00:09:45,379 --> 00:09:52,074\n應該要拿出足夠的魄力跟決心那我們請我們的法務部也好司法院也好一起加油好謝謝您謝謝好謝謝羅委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4571\t9995\t有請法務部長還有司法院副秘書長麻煩部長副秘書長委員長\n14912\t35526\t今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則希望建立一套相關的判準來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議這當然是一個正確的改革方向但我今天要提一些實際的數據跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論\n36647\t55100\t那我先請教一下我們的司法院以刑法271條第一項故意殺人罪來看近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比例以及有期徒刑的平均刑度是上升還是下降司法院知道嗎\n59008\t82121\t那個今年還沒有統計 那我們會後會提出數據給委員好 那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看 2015年132個罪次裡面 判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月\n85623\t107462\t那去年一到八月的數據死刑你知道是多少嗎?判多少個死刑?百分之多少?在所有罪次裡面我告訴你零啦 沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說\n111516\t139486\t以2015跟去年的來對比的話判死的佔比從3.8降到0然後從無期徒刑是從17.4提高到19.4那有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月所以看到整體刑度實際上是下滑尤其是在死刑這個部分\n140026\t159696\t事實上在台灣為什麼外面都說大家評價是實質廢死因為從比例跟數據來看他就是已經歸零實質廢死在判決的部分那當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀\n160697\t184226\t不過整體趨勢來看的話就是殺人罪的刑度下降不只是判死的比例連刑期都是那這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評說實質廢死的一個問題那我再想要請教那今天排審的是刑法286條就是虐待兒少致死罪\n186482\t203998\t因為這十年來就2015到2024年只有一件無期徒刑那我想請問一下司法院針對這一個所謂的虐待兒少致死罪這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度您知道是上升還是下降嗎\n207086\t219338\t這部分我們手上沒有資料可以匯後提供我們這邊也調出一些數據那一樣是以地方法院數據來看的話2021年有期徒刑平均刑度是63.6個月\n222481\t243006\t到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件\n243846\t264183\t被判五年以上有期徒刑者18件 佔比不到兩成一年以下大概是53件 佔比是五成四那一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題就是說不管是地方法院判決 高等法院判決 最高法院判決那也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都有在下降\n264904\t280380\t那這就說外界為什麼會有一些覺得我們似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全你光從形式保障來看的話就外面就有人覺得說兒童是最脆弱的最需要保護的\n281181\t309740\t但是在刑法來去所謂的遏止對於兒童的肆虐重大的一個傷害的這種情況實際上我們的保護相對來講從這個整個的判刑的一個刑度來看外界可能就認為有所不足那這個是我看到一個問題那當然去年7月16號就已經修正有提高刑度啦但是目前還沒有適用刑法的判決出現嘛對不對目前還沒有啦\n313099\t336488\t應該是還沒有 因為時間上的關係沒有啦 因為現在還剛剛而已嘛 對不對以那個訴訟程序來看不會那麼快那所以 但是根據內政部的資料家外受虐致死人數比起113年修法前後數 修法前是零人啦那修法後是出現三個案例那去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本 新的版本\n337088\t355863\t才剛剛一讀 還沒有納到這次審理那我的修法重點包括增列死刑啊對於這個7歲以上未滿12歲之人肆虐致死傷可以加重刑期到二分之一 就是說有在刑徒的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題那我要想請問法務部您覺得\n360747\t378262\t這個部長你覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據不管從死刑啊從故意殺人罪乃到於虐待兒童致死罪啊你覺得這個一直在刑度一直在下降判刑的這個所謂的那個強度一直在下降我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情跟社會期待\n379102\t396987\t是不是有落差以現行的來講的話那我們希望這個對兒童的保護一定要非常的完備那零容忍那有對一些零內或者傷害兒童甚至殺害的所以我們是認為要嚴懲不要我想這是一個形式的態度跟政策\n397867\t423595\t那這一次的一個凱案那我們覺得是我們對 我們也在檢視說我們的法規是不是有要更充實的一個地方所以我們也在做一個研修一個研修 所以昨日跟明天我們都有一個研修的一個會議那我們也希望把我們的研修的一個立法的方向跟各界來做一個對話那我想我們會儘快提出我們的一個版本出來\n424255\t446507\t那就謝謝部長,因為我在質詢的時候你也其實我覺得你態度基本上我也有肯定啦,就是至少你要往這方向去做那我想請教,因為上次法務部承諾三個月可以提出版本嘛,這個承諾還是沒改變嗎?對,我們是三個月要提出,希望能夠提出那我再問細一點,就是說修法的方向目前會包括針列死刑嗎?\n447843\t467528\t修好的方向對那個我們是認為對未滿7歲的兒童的零列上次我在委員會就有提到如果以零列這部分來當作殺人的方法我認為這個是要脫離那個加重結果患的一個問題認為直接進入到殺人的一個加重的一個室友那這部分我們是希望能夠有再加重的一個行動\n468608\t494579\t所以考量嘛死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎那個殺人罪如果說以這個凌劣的方式來殺人那本來就是有死刑的一個選項了嘛一個刑度那這部分我們會往這部分來做一個再加重的一個考量因為這跟那個加重結果犯因為究竟不是殺人的一個範例下去凌劣的方式有可能是傷害或者甚至用殺人的\n495259\t516874\t直接故意或間接故意這個都有那如果說有這部分的話我們就納入了殺人的範疇來做一個規範反正基本上方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識啦但是修法上法務部就是往這個方向怎麼去更周延去看對因為還有那個不得假釋這部分我們也有納入做這邊的一個考量\n517734\t532389\t那我最後再提醒一下我們根據衛福部的資料統計2024年兒童跟少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人是9年新高33人說真的看了都很難過啦\n533950\t553808\t因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己結果他們卻面對到這麼大的一個風險你說光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死其實坦白講真的是非常讓人家心痛所以換言之不是只有一個凱凱他其實有去年就這個2024年就有33個凱凱\n556750\t584419\t而且是九年來的新高那這個嚴重程度當然不完全說今天透過我們法務部或法院的判決還包括我們整個政府對於所謂的受虐兒童的保護的機制都要做系統性的檢討跟反省因為真的不能讓這樣的一個悲劇一直在發生在兒童身上那最後我要講就是說事實上目前兒少的虐待事件其實真的蠻嚴重那政府\n585379\t592074\t應該要拿出足夠的魄力跟決心那我們請我們的法務部也好 司法院也好 一起加油好 謝謝您 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員\n","txt":"有請法務部長還有司法院副秘書長麻煩部長副秘書長委員長\n今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則希望建立一套相關的判準來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議這當然是一個正確的改革方向但我今天要提一些實際的數據跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論\n那我先請教一下我們的司法院以刑法271條第一項故意殺人罪來看近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比例以及有期徒刑的平均刑度是上升還是下降司法院知道嗎\n那個今年還沒有統計 那我們會後會提出數據給委員好 那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看 2015年132個罪次裡面 判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月\n那去年一到八月的數據死刑你知道是多少嗎?判多少個死刑?百分之多少?在所有罪次裡面我告訴你零啦 沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說\n以2015跟去年的來對比的話判死的佔比從3.8降到0然後從無期徒刑是從17.4提高到19.4那有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月所以看到整體刑度實際上是下滑尤其是在死刑這個部分\n事實上在台灣為什麼外面都說大家評價是實質廢死因為從比例跟數據來看他就是已經歸零實質廢死在判決的部分那當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀\n不過整體趨勢來看的話就是殺人罪的刑度下降不只是判死的比例連刑期都是那這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評說實質廢死的一個問題那我再想要請教那今天排審的是刑法286條就是虐待兒少致死罪\n因為這十年來就2015到2024年只有一件無期徒刑那我想請問一下司法院針對這一個所謂的虐待兒少致死罪這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度您知道是上升還是下降嗎\n這部分我們手上沒有資料可以匯後提供我們這邊也調出一些數據那一樣是以地方法院數據來看的話2021年有期徒刑平均刑度是63.6個月\n到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件\n被判五年以上有期徒刑者18件 佔比不到兩成一年以下大概是53件 佔比是五成四那一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題就是說不管是地方法院判決 高等法院判決 最高法院判決那也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都有在下降\n那這就說外界為什麼會有一些覺得我們似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全你光從形式保障來看的話就外面就有人覺得說兒童是最脆弱的最需要保護的\n但是在刑法來去所謂的遏止對於兒童的肆虐重大的一個傷害的這種情況實際上我們的保護相對來講從這個整個的判刑的一個刑度來看外界可能就認為有所不足那這個是我看到一個問題那當然去年7月16號就已經修正有提高刑度啦但是目前還沒有適用刑法的判決出現嘛對不對目前還沒有啦\n應該是還沒有 因為時間上的關係沒有啦 因為現在還剛剛而已嘛 對不對以那個訴訟程序來看不會那麼快那所以 但是根據內政部的資料家外受虐致死人數比起113年修法前後數 修法前是零人啦那修法後是出現三個案例那去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本 新的版本\n才剛剛一讀 還沒有納到這次審理那我的修法重點包括增列死刑啊對於這個7歲以上未滿12歲之人肆虐致死傷可以加重刑期到二分之一 就是說有在刑徒的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題那我要想請問法務部您覺得\n這個部長你覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據不管從死刑啊從故意殺人罪乃到於虐待兒童致死罪啊你覺得這個一直在刑度一直在下降判刑的這個所謂的那個強度一直在下降我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情跟社會期待\n是不是有落差以現行的來講的話那我們希望這個對兒童的保護一定要非常的完備那零容忍那有對一些零內或者傷害兒童甚至殺害的所以我們是認為要嚴懲不要我想這是一個形式的態度跟政策\n那這一次的一個凱案那我們覺得是我們對 我們也在檢視說我們的法規是不是有要更充實的一個地方所以我們也在做一個研修一個研修 所以昨日跟明天我們都有一個研修的一個會議那我們也希望把我們的研修的一個立法的方向跟各界來做一個對話那我想我們會儘快提出我們的一個版本出來\n那就謝謝部長,因為我在質詢的時候你也其實我覺得你態度基本上我也有肯定啦,就是至少你要往這方向去做那我想請教,因為上次法務部承諾三個月可以提出版本嘛,這個承諾還是沒改變嗎?對,我們是三個月要提出,希望能夠提出那我再問細一點,就是說修法的方向目前會包括針列死刑嗎?\n修好的方向對那個我們是認為對未滿7歲的兒童的零列上次我在委員會就有提到如果以零列這部分來當作殺人的方法我認為這個是要脫離那個加重結果患的一個問題認為直接進入到殺人的一個加重的一個室友那這部分我們是希望能夠有再加重的一個行動\n所以考量嘛死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎那個殺人罪如果說以這個凌劣的方式來殺人那本來就是有死刑的一個選項了嘛一個刑度那這部分我們會往這部分來做一個再加重的一個考量因為這跟那個加重結果犯因為究竟不是殺人的一個範例下去凌劣的方式有可能是傷害或者甚至用殺人的\n直接故意或間接故意這個都有那如果說有這部分的話我們就納入了殺人的範疇來做一個規範反正基本上方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識啦但是修法上法務部就是往這個方向怎麼去更周延去看對因為還有那個不得假釋這部分我們也有納入做這邊的一個考量\n那我最後再提醒一下我們根據衛福部的資料統計2024年兒童跟少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人是9年新高33人說真的看了都很難過啦\n因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己結果他們卻面對到這麼大的一個風險你說光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死其實坦白講真的是非常讓人家心痛所以換言之不是只有一個凱凱他其實有去年就這個2024年就有33個凱凱\n而且是九年來的新高那這個嚴重程度當然不完全說今天透過我們法務部或法院的判決還包括我們整個政府對於所謂的受虐兒童的保護的機制都要做系統性的檢討跟反省因為真的不能讓這樣的一個悲劇一直在發生在兒童身上那最後我要講就是說事實上目前兒少的虐待事件其實真的蠻嚴重那政府\n應該要拿出足夠的魄力跟決心那我們請我們的法務部也好 司法院也好 一起加油好 謝謝您 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.571 --> 00:09.995\n有請法務部長還有司法院副秘書長麻煩部長副秘書長委員長\n\n00:14.912 --> 00:35.526\n今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則希望建立一套相關的判準來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議這當然是一個正確的改革方向但我今天要提一些實際的數據跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論\n\n00:36.647 --> 00:55.100\n那我先請教一下我們的司法院以刑法271條第一項故意殺人罪來看近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比例以及有期徒刑的平均刑度是上升還是下降司法院知道嗎\n\n00:59.008 --> 01:22.121\n那個今年還沒有統計那我們會後會提出數據給委員好那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看2015年132個罪次裡面判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月\n\n01:25.623 --> 01:47.462\n那去年一到八月的數據死刑你知道是多少嗎?判多少個死刑?百分之多少?在所有罪次裡面我告訴你零啦沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說\n\n01:51.516 --> 02:19.486\n以2015跟去年的來對比的話判死的佔比從3.8降到0然後從無期徒刑是從17.4提高到19.4那有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月所以看到整體刑度實際上是下滑尤其是在死刑這個部分\n\n02:20.026 --> 02:39.696\n事實上在台灣為什麼外面都說大家評價是實質廢死因為從比例跟數據來看他就是已經歸零實質廢死在判決的部分那當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀\n\n02:40.697 --> 03:04.226\n不過整體趨勢來看的話就是殺人罪的刑度下降不只是判死的比例連刑期都是那這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評說實質廢死的一個問題那我再想要請教那今天排審的是刑法286條就是虐待兒少致死罪\n\n03:06.482 --> 03:23.998\n因為這十年來就2015到2024年只有一件無期徒刑那我想請問一下司法院針對這一個所謂的虐待兒少致死罪這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度您知道是上升還是下降嗎\n\n03:27.086 --> 03:39.338\n這部分我們手上沒有資料可以匯後提供我們這邊也調出一些數據那一樣是以地方法院數據來看的話2021年有期徒刑平均刑度是63.6個月\n\n03:42.481 --> 04:03.006\n到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件\n\n04:03.846 --> 04:24.183\n被判五年以上有期徒刑者18件佔比不到兩成一年以下大概是53件佔比是五成四那一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題就是說不管是地方法院判決高等法院判決最高法院判決那也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都有在下降\n\n04:24.904 --> 04:40.380\n那這就說外界為什麼會有一些覺得我們似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全你光從形式保障來看的話就外面就有人覺得說兒童是最脆弱的最需要保護的\n\n04:41.181 --> 05:09.740\n但是在刑法來去所謂的遏止對於兒童的肆虐重大的一個傷害的這種情況實際上我們的保護相對來講從這個整個的判刑的一個刑度來看外界可能就認為有所不足那這個是我看到一個問題那當然去年7月16號就已經修正有提高刑度啦但是目前還沒有適用刑法的判決出現嘛對不對目前還沒有啦\n\n05:13.099 --> 05:36.488\n應該是還沒有因為時間上的關係沒有啦因為現在還剛剛而已嘛對不對以那個訴訟程序來看不會那麼快那所以但是根據內政部的資料家外受虐致死人數比起113年修法前後數修法前是零人啦那修法後是出現三個案例那去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本新的版本\n\n05:37.088 --> 05:55.863\n才剛剛一讀還沒有納到這次審理那我的修法重點包括增列死刑啊對於這個7歲以上未滿12歲之人肆虐致死傷可以加重刑期到二分之一就是說有在刑徒的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題那我要想請問法務部您覺得\n\n06:00.747 --> 06:18.262\n這個部長你覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據不管從死刑啊從故意殺人罪乃到於虐待兒童致死罪啊你覺得這個一直在刑度一直在下降判刑的這個所謂的那個強度一直在下降我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情跟社會期待\n\n06:19.102 --> 06:36.987\n是不是有落差以現行的來講的話那我們希望這個對兒童的保護一定要非常的完備那零容忍那有對一些零內或者傷害兒童甚至殺害的所以我們是認為要嚴懲不要我想這是一個形式的態度跟政策\n\n06:37.867 --> 07:03.595\n那這一次的一個凱案那我們覺得是我們對我們也在檢視說我們的法規是不是有要更充實的一個地方所以我們也在做一個研修一個研修所以昨日跟明天我們都有一個研修的一個會議那我們也希望把我們的研修的一個立法的方向跟各界來做一個對話那我想我們會儘快提出我們的一個版本出來\n\n07:04.255 --> 07:26.507\n那就謝謝部長,因為我在質詢的時候你也其實我覺得你態度基本上我也有肯定啦,就是至少你要往這方向去做那我想請教,因為上次法務部承諾三個月可以提出版本嘛,這個承諾還是沒改變嗎?對,我們是三個月要提出,希望能夠提出那我再問細一點,就是說修法的方向目前會包括針列死刑嗎?\n\n07:27.843 --> 07:47.528\n修好的方向對那個我們是認為對未滿7歲的兒童的零列上次我在委員會就有提到如果以零列這部分來當作殺人的方法我認為這個是要脫離那個加重結果患的一個問題認為直接進入到殺人的一個加重的一個室友那這部分我們是希望能夠有再加重的一個行動\n\n07:48.608 --> 08:14.579\n所以考量嘛死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎那個殺人罪如果說以這個凌劣的方式來殺人那本來就是有死刑的一個選項了嘛一個刑度那這部分我們會往這部分來做一個再加重的一個考量因為這跟那個加重結果犯因為究竟不是殺人的一個範例下去凌劣的方式有可能是傷害或者甚至用殺人的\n\n08:15.259 --> 08:36.874\n直接故意或間接故意這個都有那如果說有這部分的話我們就納入了殺人的範疇來做一個規範反正基本上方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識啦但是修法上法務部就是往這個方向怎麼去更周延去看對因為還有那個不得假釋這部分我們也有納入做這邊的一個考量\n\n08:37.734 --> 08:52.389\n那我最後再提醒一下我們根據衛福部的資料統計2024年兒童跟少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人是9年新高33人說真的看了都很難過啦\n\n08:53.950 --> 09:13.808\n因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己結果他們卻面對到這麼大的一個風險你說光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死其實坦白講真的是非常讓人家心痛所以換言之不是只有一個凱凱他其實有去年就這個2024年就有33個凱凱\n\n09:16.750 --> 09:44.419\n而且是九年來的新高那這個嚴重程度當然不完全說今天透過我們法務部或法院的判決還包括我們整個政府對於所謂的受虐兒童的保護的機制都要做系統性的檢討跟反省因為真的不能讓這樣的一個悲劇一直在發生在兒童身上那最後我要講就是說事實上目前兒少的虐待事件其實真的蠻嚴重那政府\n\n09:45.379 --> 09:52.074\n應該要拿出足夠的魄力跟決心那我們請我們的法務部也好司法院也好一起加油好謝謝您謝謝好謝謝羅委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.571,"end":9.995,"text":"有請法務部長還有司法院副秘書長麻煩部長副秘書長委員長"},{"start":14.912,"end":35.526,"text":"今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則希望建立一套相關的判準來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議這當然是一個正確的改革方向但我今天要提一些實際的數據跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論"},{"start":36.647,"end":55.1,"text":"那我先請教一下我們的司法院以刑法271條第一項故意殺人罪來看近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比例以及有期徒刑的平均刑度是上升還是下降司法院知道嗎"},{"start":59.008,"end":82.121,"text":"那個今年還沒有統計 那我們會後會提出數據給委員好 那我這邊有整理一部分啦是以地方法院的數據來看 2015年132個罪次裡面 判死的佔3.8%無期徒刑17.4那有期徒刑平均判刑是149.35個月"},{"start":85.623,"end":107.462,"text":"那去年一到八月的數據死刑你知道是多少嗎?判多少個死刑?百分之多少?在所有罪次裡面我告訴你零啦 沒有啦那無期徒刑是19.4%啦有期徒刑平均判刑是140.41個月比如說"},{"start":111.516,"end":139.486,"text":"以2015跟去年的來對比的話判死的佔比從3.8降到0然後從無期徒刑是從17.4提高到19.4那有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月所以看到整體刑度實際上是下滑尤其是在死刑這個部分"},{"start":140.026,"end":159.696,"text":"事實上在台灣為什麼外面都說大家評價是實質廢死因為從比例跟數據來看他就是已經歸零實質廢死在判決的部分那當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀"},{"start":160.697,"end":184.226,"text":"不過整體趨勢來看的話就是殺人罪的刑度下降不只是判死的比例連刑期都是那這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評說實質廢死的一個問題那我再想要請教那今天排審的是刑法286條就是虐待兒少致死罪"},{"start":186.482,"end":203.998,"text":"因為這十年來就2015到2024年只有一件無期徒刑那我想請問一下司法院針對這一個所謂的虐待兒少致死罪這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度您知道是上升還是下降嗎"},{"start":207.086,"end":219.338,"text":"這部分我們手上沒有資料可以匯後提供我們這邊也調出一些數據那一樣是以地方法院數據來看的話2021年有期徒刑平均刑度是63.6個月"},{"start":222.481,"end":243.006,"text":"到2024年就剩下26個月雖然說刑法286的使用比例很低但從2015年到2024年10年總共只有57件平均一年5件多但在這近10年裡98件罪次裡無期徒刑1件"},{"start":243.846,"end":264.183,"text":"被判五年以上有期徒刑者18件 佔比不到兩成一年以下大概是53件 佔比是五成四那一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題就是說不管是地方法院判決 高等法院判決 最高法院判決那也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都有在下降"},{"start":264.904,"end":280.38,"text":"那這就說外界為什麼會有一些覺得我們似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全你光從形式保障來看的話就外面就有人覺得說兒童是最脆弱的最需要保護的"},{"start":281.181,"end":309.74,"text":"但是在刑法來去所謂的遏止對於兒童的肆虐重大的一個傷害的這種情況實際上我們的保護相對來講從這個整個的判刑的一個刑度來看外界可能就認為有所不足那這個是我看到一個問題那當然去年7月16號就已經修正有提高刑度啦但是目前還沒有適用刑法的判決出現嘛對不對目前還沒有啦"},{"start":313.099,"end":336.488,"text":"應該是還沒有 因為時間上的關係沒有啦 因為現在還剛剛而已嘛 對不對以那個訴訟程序來看不會那麼快那所以 但是根據內政部的資料家外受虐致死人數比起113年修法前後數 修法前是零人啦那修法後是出現三個案例那去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本 新的版本"},{"start":337.088,"end":355.863,"text":"才剛剛一讀 還沒有納到這次審理那我的修法重點包括增列死刑啊對於這個7歲以上未滿12歲之人肆虐致死傷可以加重刑期到二分之一 就是說有在刑徒的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題那我要想請問法務部您覺得"},{"start":360.747,"end":378.262,"text":"這個部長你覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據不管從死刑啊從故意殺人罪乃到於虐待兒童致死罪啊你覺得這個一直在刑度一直在下降判刑的這個所謂的那個強度一直在下降我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情跟社會期待"},{"start":379.102,"end":396.987,"text":"是不是有落差以現行的來講的話那我們希望這個對兒童的保護一定要非常的完備那零容忍那有對一些零內或者傷害兒童甚至殺害的所以我們是認為要嚴懲不要我想這是一個形式的態度跟政策"},{"start":397.867,"end":423.595,"text":"那這一次的一個凱案那我們覺得是我們對 我們也在檢視說我們的法規是不是有要更充實的一個地方所以我們也在做一個研修一個研修 所以昨日跟明天我們都有一個研修的一個會議那我們也希望把我們的研修的一個立法的方向跟各界來做一個對話那我想我們會儘快提出我們的一個版本出來"},{"start":424.255,"end":446.507,"text":"那就謝謝部長,因為我在質詢的時候你也其實我覺得你態度基本上我也有肯定啦,就是至少你要往這方向去做那我想請教,因為上次法務部承諾三個月可以提出版本嘛,這個承諾還是沒改變嗎?對,我們是三個月要提出,希望能夠提出那我再問細一點,就是說修法的方向目前會包括針列死刑嗎?"},{"start":447.843,"end":467.528,"text":"修好的方向對那個我們是認為對未滿7歲的兒童的零列上次我在委員會就有提到如果以零列這部分來當作殺人的方法我認為這個是要脫離那個加重結果患的一個問題認為直接進入到殺人的一個加重的一個室友那這部分我們是希望能夠有再加重的一個行動"},{"start":468.608,"end":494.579,"text":"所以考量嘛死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎那個殺人罪如果說以這個凌劣的方式來殺人那本來就是有死刑的一個選項了嘛一個刑度那這部分我們會往這部分來做一個再加重的一個考量因為這跟那個加重結果犯因為究竟不是殺人的一個範例下去凌劣的方式有可能是傷害或者甚至用殺人的"},{"start":495.259,"end":516.874,"text":"直接故意或間接故意這個都有那如果說有這部分的話我們就納入了殺人的範疇來做一個規範反正基本上方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識啦但是修法上法務部就是往這個方向怎麼去更周延去看對因為還有那個不得假釋這部分我們也有納入做這邊的一個考量"},{"start":517.734,"end":532.389,"text":"那我最後再提醒一下我們根據衛福部的資料統計2024年兒童跟少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人是9年新高33人說真的看了都很難過啦"},{"start":533.95,"end":553.808,"text":"因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己結果他們卻面對到這麼大的一個風險你說光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死其實坦白講真的是非常讓人家心痛所以換言之不是只有一個凱凱他其實有去年就這個2024年就有33個凱凱"},{"start":556.75,"end":584.419,"text":"而且是九年來的新高那這個嚴重程度當然不完全說今天透過我們法務部或法院的判決還包括我們整個政府對於所謂的受虐兒童的保護的機制都要做系統性的檢討跟反省因為真的不能讓這樣的一個悲劇一直在發生在兒童身上那最後我要講就是說事實上目前兒少的虐待事件其實真的蠻嚴重那政府"},{"start":585.379,"end":592.074,"text":"應該要拿出足夠的魄力跟決心那我們請我們的法務部也好 司法院也好 一起加油好 謝謝您 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":620,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時55分）有請法務部長，還有司法院副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩部長、副秘書長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早！"],["羅委員智強：今天的主題是討論死刑量刑準則，希望建立一套相關的判準，來減少相似個案間判刑卻不同的爭議，這當然是一個正確的改革方向，但我今天要提一些實際的數據，跟法務部還有司法院的同仁們一起討論。","我先請教一下司法院，以刑法第二百七十一條第一項故意殺人罪來看，近年來判處死刑或無期徒刑的比率，以及有期徒刑的平均刑度，是上升還是下降，司法院，知道嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：今年還沒有統計，我們會後會提出數據給委員。"],["羅委員智強：好，我這邊有整理一部分……"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["羅委員智強：以地方法院的數據來看，2015年132個罪次裡面，判死的占3.8%，判無期徒刑的占17.4%，有期徒刑的平均判刑是149.35個月；以去年1到8月的數據來看，在所有罪次裡面，判死刑的，你知道是百分之多少嗎？我告訴你，是0，沒有啦！判無期徒刑的是19.4%，有期徒刑的平均判刑是140.41個月。也就是以2015年的與去年的來對比的話，判死的占比從3.8%降到0，判無期徒刑的是從17.4%提高到19.4%，有期徒刑的平均判刑是從149.35個月下降到140.41個月。所以看到整體刑度事實上是下滑，尤其是在死刑這個部分。在臺灣，為什麼外面大家評價是實質廢死？因為在判決的部分，從比率及數據來看，就是已經歸0，實質廢死！當然每一個判刑要看每個個案而定，也不能完全用平均數據來去解讀，不過整體趨勢來看的話，就是殺人罪的刑度下降，不只是判死的比率，連刑期都是，這當然也是為什麼我剛剛前面講外界一直在批評是實質廢死的原因。","我想要再請教，今天排審的是刑法第二百八十六條，也就是虐待兒少致死罪，這10年來，就2015到2024年，只有1件判處無期徒刑，我想請問一下司法院，針對所謂的虐待兒少致死罪，這幾年判處有期徒刑的平均刑度，您知道是上升還是下降嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個部分我們手上沒有資料，可以會後提供。"],["羅委員智強：沒問題。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["羅委員智強：我們這邊也調出一些數據。一樣以地方法院的數據來看的話，2021年有期徒刑的平均刑度是63.6個月，到2024年就剩下26個月，雖然刑法第二百八十六條的使用比率很低，從2015年到2024年，10年總共只有57件，平均1年五件多，但在近10年98件罪次裡被判無期徒刑者1件，被判5年以上有期徒刑者18件，占比不到二成，被判1年以下者，大概是53件，占比是五成四。這一樣也面對我剛剛前面講的問題，就是不管是地方法院判決、高等法院判決、最高法院判決，也看到觸犯虐待兒少致死的刑度都在下降，這就是為什麼外界會有一些覺得似乎整個國家法制對於兒童的保護並不周全，光從刑事保障來看的話，外面就有人覺得兒童是最脆弱的、最需要保護的，但是從刑法來遏止對於兒童的施虐、重大傷害的情況，事實上我們的保護相對來講從整個判刑的刑度來看，外界可能就認為有所不足，這是我看到的問題。當然，去年7月16日就已經修正，提高刑度了，但是目前還沒有適用新法的判決出現，對不對？目前還沒有？"],["王副秘書長梅英：應該是還沒有，因為時間上的關係……"],["羅委員智強：沒有，因為才剛修正而已，以訴訟程序來看，不會那麼快。但是根據內政部的資料，比較家外受虐致死的人數在113年修法前後的數字，修法前是0人，修法後出現3個案例。去年跟今年我都有提出相關的修法版本，新的版本才剛剛一讀，還沒有納到這次審理，我的修法重點包括增列死刑，對於七歲以上未滿十二歲之人施虐致死傷者，可以加重刑期至二分之一，也就是在刑度的部分希望能夠解決目前實務上判刑過輕的問題。","我想請問法務部，部長，您覺得我剛剛講的這些司法院的數據，不管從死刑、從故意殺人罪、乃至於虐待兒童致死罪，刑度一直在下降，也就是判刑的強度一直在下降，我不知道法務部是怎麼看這件事情？跟社會期待是不是有落差？"],["鄭部長銘謙：以現行來講的話，我們希望對兒童的保護一定要非常地完備、零容忍，對凌虐、傷害、甚至殺害兒童的，我們認為要嚴懲，我想這是刑事的態度跟政策。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["鄭部長銘謙：針對這次的剴剴案，我們也在檢視相關的法規是不是要有更充實的地方，所以我們也在做研修，昨天跟明天都有研修的會議，希望把立法的方向讓檢辯、各界做一個對話，我們會儘快提版本出來。"],["羅委員智強：好，謝謝部長。我在質詢的時候，你的態度我也有肯定，至少你要往這個方向去做。我想請教，上次法務部承諾3個月可以提出版本，這個承諾還是沒改變，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，我們是3個月內要提出，希望能夠提出來。"],["羅委員智強：好，我再問細一點，修法的方向目前會包括增列死刑嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於修法的方向，我們認為對未滿七歲兒童的凌虐，上次我在委員會就有提到，如果以凌虐這部分當作殺人的方法，我認為這個是要脫離加重結果犯的問題，直接進入殺人的加重事由，這部分我們希望能夠再加重刑度。"],["羅委員智強：所以有考量，死刑的部分有考量在裡面嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：殺人罪如果以凌虐的方式來殺人，本來就是有死刑的選項、刑度。"],["羅委員智強：我知道，你上次大概有跟我講。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們會往再加重的考量，因為這個跟加重結果犯來講，究竟不是殺人的犯意，凌虐的方式有可能是傷害，或者甚至用殺人的，直接故意或間接故意都有，如果有這部分的話，我們都納入殺人的範疇來做規範。"],["羅委員智強：基本上，我們的方向跟部長已經有一些基礎共識，但是修法上法務部怎麼往這個方向更周延去看法條的衡平性……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，另外還有不得假釋這這部分，我們也納入考量。"],["羅委員智強：好。我最後再提醒一下，根據衛福部的資料統計，2024年兒童及少年光家內跟家外受虐致死人數就高達33人，是9年新高，33人！說真的，看了都很難過，因為小孩子其實最沒有能力保護自己，結果他們卻面對這麼大的風險。光2024年就有33個在家內跟家外受虐致死，坦白講真的非常讓人心痛，換言之，不是只有1個剴剴，其實2024年就有33個剴剴，而且還是9年來的新高。以這個嚴重的程度，當然不完全能透過法務部或法院的判決，還包括整個政府對於受虐兒童的保護機制都要做系統性的檢討及反省，因為真的不能讓這樣的悲劇一直發生在兒童身上。","最後，我要講的是，事實上目前兒少的虐待事件真的滿嚴重的，政府應該要拿出足夠的魄力及決心，請法務部也好、司法院也好一起加油，謝謝您！"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。","下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。吳思瑤委員發言完畢之後休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-19","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","王育敏","張智倫","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","羅智強","林月琴","張啓楷","陳培瑜","王育敏","陳冠廷","林倩綺"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─ 包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳\n述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57\n條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委\n員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等16人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條\n及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一\n條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條\n文修正草案」案、( 七) 委員邱鎮軍等19 人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員葉\n元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等21人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145701_00005"}}}