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11:19:22","影片長度":"00:13:57","會議時間":"2025-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二案（九）至（十一）如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T11:05:25+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T11:19:22+08:00","duration":837,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-3-36-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162214","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162214","tool":"pyannote","id":"162214-pyannote"},"job_id":"BZOGRwaiWvLNxKeO","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,104 --> 00:00:12,887\n好謝謝主席有請複密還有部長麻煩複密署長部長委員長好大家辛苦了大法官憲法法庭針對台灣沒有廢除死刑我們死刑是核限的這個解釋出來之後這段時間立法院司法法治委員會對於廢死的議題我們討論過非常多次\n\n2\n00:00:37,222 --> 00:01:05,348\n那我認為每一次的對話都非常的珍貴我們可以再透過我們的詢答清楚的讓社會知道台灣沒有非死死刑是核限的下一頁所以說113宪判8的結果是核限性的解釋但是要強化法律的程序跟制度的保障這些部分我已經論述過N次了我也相信台灣社會有更正確的認知下一頁\n\n3\n00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:35,903\n那立法院要做的是什麼呢跟行政部門要做的是什麼呢就是第一個要尊重憲法法庭的判決這第一件事沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面針對憲法所規定的解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院的憲法法庭所以沒有人可以來站在憲法法庭判決的對立面所以立法院行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭\n\n4\n00:01:36,263 --> 00:02:05,181\n的結果而不是用任何方式要去推翻它去挑戰它所以我們要做的除了尊重之外就是要啟動必要的制度配套這是我們眼前另外一個要務不管是如何避免冤獄的產生如何來防堵犯罪人來逃避刑責而且來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我也講過N次這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作下頁所以說我們要修法\n\n5\n00:02:06,602 --> 00:02:21,340\n針對刑法刑事訴訟法法院組織法監獄刑刑刑刑法我們要謹慎的來修法而在修法的過程持續不斷的跟社會溝通跟人民對話所以這些都在進程當中嘛對不對\n\n6\n00:02:23,669 --> 00:02:38,237\n所以我要說的是尊重憲法法庭的判決不要亂帶風向給社會不必要的錯誤認知立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業修法下一頁但是呢\n\n7\n00:02:41,604 --> 00:03:00,595\n在野黨要提出反廢死的公投消費公共議題為了他的政治目的公投要綁罷免這一頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負\n\n8\n00:03:01,696 --> 00:03:28,048\n有通過也有駁回不成立的這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理不合理合法不合法一勝一負嘛所以合三言一公投是可以進行的但是反廢死公投因為這個違反公投法的規範中選會予以駁回在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟\n\n9\n00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:44,060\n我們都尊重下一頁但是呢還是要說請把憲法讀好憲法78條的規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權利大法官釋字185號\n\n10\n00:03:45,982 --> 00:04:00,696\n憲法增修條文的12條還有公投法的第二條都要服從憲法的規定所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法公投並不能夠否決憲判複密是不是這樣\n\n11\n00:04:05,148 --> 00:04:16,521\n所以公投不能否決憲判那您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟他們不服啊他們認為散費死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢要分享一下你的觀點\n\n12\n00:04:19,433 --> 00:04:35,079\n這個我們尊重那個委員他們職權的那個行使只是這個部分就是在那個除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外在那個限訴法38條第一項也有講就是憲法法院的那個判決呢還有拘束各機關跟人類的效力那各機關也有實現判決內容的義務\n\n13\n00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:58,234\n所以說在野黨委員所提的這個反廢死的公投我姑且不論他有沒有政治的目的要來救罷免來做政治動員我姑且不論他就是違法違憲嘛違反憲法違反大法官釋字的解釋違反公民投票法也違反憲法訴訟法嘛\n\n14\n00:04:59,855 --> 00:05:27,645\n所以說憲法解釋等同於憲法公投不能夠來否決憲判我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢負責任的向所有的公民朋友來清楚的再次表達所以這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前不聽民進黨的絕對沒問題民主不是一定要聽誰的但不聽民進黨的可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧\n\n15\n00:05:29,489 --> 00:05:43,921\n陳英前教授、蘇紫橋教授、林家和副教授都提出了在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前都已經提出警示了不要把公投當作綁裝的工具當作政治的操作\n\n16\n00:05:45,126 --> 00:06:12,673\n此行並未違憲而是設定了更嚴苛的標準不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則這就是為什麼中選會依法行政未來的行政訴訟我尊重在野黨但是我還是這一句話沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面下一頁\n\n17\n00:06:14,793 --> 00:06:42,155\n我進入我第二個主題最近吵得很夯喔大家知道苗博雅市議員那她以證人的身份去出庭針對柯文哲前市長的金華城案但是呢她作為依法院的宣就是傳喚她她依法去履行她的責任可是她去出庭前卻被民眾黨\n\n18\n00:06:44,692 --> 00:06:53,722\n鋪天蓋地的來進行抹黑攻擊也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾攻擊證人這絕對是不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧\n\n19\n00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:18,362\n如果有任何的證人在依法律的規定他去出庭傳喚來配合檢調的偵辦這是他公民的職責卻被惡意的攻擊騷擾怎麼辦怎麼處理你們可以放任這種事情嗎\n\n20\n00:07:33,271 --> 00:07:46,401\n沒有辦法回答因為沒有人想像會有人發生這種事情對不對只是一個去出庭應訊的提供證言證詞的證人而已會被攻擊成這個程度而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨\n\n21\n00:07:57,661 --> 00:08:23,091\n現在還打著透明公開用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊下一頁而且很離譜的喔要修法院組織法已經進步二讀在5月23號換言之未來司法法治委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法針對法庭直播的合理性\n\n22\n00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:33,063\n正當性沒有辦法進行討論直接就在立法院要被透過表決來上路了你們以後就是要執行的人耶司法院跟法務部怎麼辦\n\n23\n00:08:41,144 --> 00:08:54,009\n法庭直播這件事情沒有委員會的充分討論直接淨附二讀而且我也可以預判表決前也不太有充分的發言的機會啦可能又被沒收了啦然後直接用表決\n\n24\n00:08:55,543 --> 00:09:13,770\n站在你們專業的司法人員捍衛司法的獨立也一直在推動司法的透明公開的司法院跟法務部未來都是你們要執行的欸你們樂見這樣一個修法直接用禁覆二讀的方式直接被表決通過你們這是你們最後可能以後沒有機會了一個月後就要表決了\n\n25\n00:09:20,410 --> 00:09:34,909\n那個報告委員那個司法院對這部分確實很疑慮因為在重大刑案就是譬如說是一項貪毒殺人這樣子的那個案件就是被害人跟鑑定人他們這個公開播送是無遠弗屆的他們\n\n26\n00:09:35,370 --> 00:10:03,303\n就是很容易會被那個肉搜或者是說被那個威脅那他們想到這個話他們就不敢到法庭那還有就是說可能那個有心人會利用這一種那個公開播送去製造輿論全民公審那這一些事情都是不利於就是公平審判就反而會去假透明公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正干預司法影響他獨立辦案\n\n27\n00:10:04,503 --> 00:10:26,812\n都會有這些負面的效果嘛那還有一點就是這個是比較難以防治的就是說你知道一公開播送之後這個資料你要怎麼收回跟那個管制這是很困難的那現在自媒體那個發達就是說這個影音可能當事人會惡意的那個剪輯然後再不到的這一些那個濫用那事實上這個以前我們都研議過就是說\n\n28\n00:10:28,913 --> 00:10:49,945\n2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧在下一頁我們即使沒有辦法去做到法庭直播這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明公開保障當事人的權益我們已經一再的在軟硬體去下手下一頁\n\n29\n00:10:53,607 --> 00:11:09,375\n所以這段時間法官協會2017年就已經說了公開審判不等於法庭直播一定要三思啊下一頁而2025年的法官協會很嚴正的聲明說法院不是流量的秀場\n\n30\n00:11:10,416 --> 00:11:30,943\n直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用下一頁女法官協會也發出了聲明切莫不要透過表決直接讓這一個沒有社會公式沒有社會公式的法庭直播直接倉促的上路他需要配套下一頁\n\n31\n00:11:33,906 --> 00:11:48,390\n減輕減改也發生了只有中國只有專制獨裁的中國才全面推動事實審的法庭直播部長現在全世界事實審的法庭直播是不是只有中國應當是吧這個是北韓是嗎那一樣都是極權國家好我最後就以\n\n32\n00:12:00,205 --> 00:12:23,327\n只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國他透過這種公審就是一種公審的大秀他可以利用司法的公審大秀來做到他的政治目的他能夠用此來恫嚇人民進行政治宣傳所以說\n\n33\n00:12:24,568 --> 00:12:33,608\n台灣要向中國學習嗎?台灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習跟進嗎?\n\n34\n00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:59,631\n我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題否則在5月23號已經禁覆二讀6月23號司法法治委員會委員會中心主義被沒收被踐踏我們這些專業的司法法治委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了直接就用表決來決定了我希望司法院跟法務部你們要站在你們能夠\n\n35\n00:13:04,322 --> 00:13:22,216\n擁有的倡議的力量去讓社會知道公開透明不是全程直播尤其在法院我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛我們更要確保訴訟當事人參與者他的權利你們真的我要提醒你們不要認為\n\n36\n00:13:31,596 --> 00:13:32,076\n好謝謝主席謝謝大家\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8104\t12887\t好 謝謝主席有請複密還有部長麻煩複密署長 部長委員長好 大家辛苦了大法官憲法法庭針對台灣沒有廢除死刑我們死刑是核限的這個解釋出來之後這段時間立法院司法法治委員會對於廢死的議題我們討論過非常多次\n37222\t65348\t那我認為每一次的對話都非常的珍貴我們可以再透過我們的詢答清楚的讓社會知道台灣沒有非死死刑是核限的下一頁所以說113宪判8的結果是核限性的解釋但是要強化法律的程序跟制度的保障這些部分我已經論述過N次了我也相信台灣社會有更正確的認知下一頁\n66860\t95903\t那立法院要做的是什麼呢跟行政部門要做的是什麼呢就是第一個要尊重憲法法庭的判決這第一件事沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面針對憲法所規定的解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院的憲法法庭所以沒有人可以來站在憲法法庭判決的對立面所以立法院行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭\n96263\t125181\t的結果而不是用任何方式要去推翻它去挑戰它所以我們要做的除了尊重之外就是要啟動必要的制度配套這是我們眼前另外一個要務不管是如何避免冤獄的產生如何來防堵犯罪人來逃避刑責而且來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我也講過N次這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作下頁所以說我們要修法\n126602\t141340\t針對刑法 刑事訴訟法 法院組織法監獄刑刑 刑刑法我們要謹慎的來修法而在修法的過程持續不斷的跟社會溝通 跟人民對話所以這些都在進程當中嘛 對不對\n143669\t158237\t所以我要說的是尊重憲法法庭的判決不要亂帶風向給社會不必要的錯誤認知立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業修法下一頁但是呢\n161604\t180595\t在野黨要提出反廢死的公投消費公共議題為了他的政治目的公投要綁罷免這一頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負\n181696\t208048\t有通過也有駁回不成立的這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理不合理合法不合法一勝一負嘛所以合三言一公投是可以進行的但是反廢死公投因為這個違反公投法的規範中選會予以駁回在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟\n209639\t224060\t我們都尊重下一頁但是呢還是要說請把憲法讀好憲法78條的規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權利大法官釋字185號\n225982\t240696\t憲法增修條文的12條還有公投法的第二條都要服從憲法的規定所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法公投並不能夠否決憲判複密是不是這樣\n245148\t256521\t所以公投不能否決憲判那您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟他們不服啊他們認為散費死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢要分享一下你的觀點\n259433\t275079\t這個我們尊重那個委員他們職權的那個行使只是這個部分就是在那個除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外在那個限訴法38條第一項也有講就是憲法法院的那個判決呢還有拘束各機關跟人類的效力那各機關也有實現判決內容的義務\n278280\t298234\t所以說在野黨委員所提的這個反廢死的公投我姑且不論他有沒有政治的目的要來救罷免來做政治動員我姑且不論他就是違法違憲嘛違反憲法違反大法官釋字的解釋違反公民投票法也違反憲法訴訟法嘛\n299855\t327645\t所以說憲法解釋等同於憲法公投不能夠來否決憲判我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢負責任的向所有的公民朋友來清楚的再次表達所以這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前不聽民進黨的絕對沒問題民主不是一定要聽誰的但不聽民進黨的可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧\n329489\t343921\t陳英前教授、蘇紫橋教授、林家和副教授都提出了在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前都已經提出警示了不要把公投當作綁裝的工具當作政治的操作\n345126\t372673\t此行並未違憲而是設定了更嚴苛的標準不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則這就是為什麼中選會依法行政未來的行政訴訟我尊重在野黨但是我還是這一句話沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面下一頁\n374793\t402155\t我進入我第二個主題最近吵得很夯喔大家知道苗博雅市議員那她以證人的身份去出庭針對柯文哲前市長的金華城案但是呢她作為依法院的宣就是傳喚她她依法去履行她的責任可是她去出庭前卻被民眾黨\n404692\t413722\t鋪天蓋地的來進行抹黑攻擊也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾攻擊證人這絕對是不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧\n421516\t438362\t如果有任何的證人在依法律的規定他去出庭傳喚來配合檢調的偵辦這是他公民的職責卻被惡意的攻擊騷擾怎麼辦 怎麼處理你們可以放任這種事情嗎\n453271\t466401\t沒有辦法回答因為沒有人想像會有人發生這種事情對不對只是一個去出庭應訊的提供證言證詞的證人而已會被攻擊成這個程度而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨\n477661\t503091\t現在還打著透明公開用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊 下一頁而且很離譜的喔要修法院組織法已經進步二讀在5月23號換言之未來司法法治委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法針對法庭直播的合理性\n504400\t513063\t正當性沒有辦法進行討論直接就在立法院要被透過表決來上路了你們以後就是要執行的人耶司法院跟法務部怎麼辦\n521144\t534009\t法庭直播這件事情沒有委員會的充分討論直接淨附二讀而且我也可以預判表決前也不太有充分的發言的機會啦可能又被沒收了啦然後直接用表決\n535543\t553770\t站在你們專業的司法人員 捍衛司法的獨立也一直在推動司法的透明公開的司法院跟法務部未來都是你們要執行的欸你們樂見這樣一個修法直接用禁覆二讀的方式直接被表決通過你們 這是你們最後可能以後沒有機會了一個月後就要表決了\n560410\t574909\t那個報告委員那個司法院對這部分確實很疑慮因為在重大刑案就是譬如說是一項貪毒殺人這樣子的那個案件就是被害人跟鑑定人他們這個公開播送是無遠弗屆的他們\n575370\t603303\t就是很容易會被那個肉搜或者是說被那個威脅那他們想到這個話他們就不敢到法庭那還有就是說可能那個有心人會利用這一種那個公開播送去製造輿論全民公審那這一些事情都是不利於就是公平審判就反而會去假透明公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正干預司法影響他獨立辦案\n604503\t626812\t都會有這些負面的效果嘛那還有一點就是這個是比較難以防治的就是說你知道一公開播送之後這個資料你要怎麼收回跟那個管制這是很困難的那現在自媒體那個發達就是說這個影音可能當事人會惡意的那個剪輯然後再不到的這一些那個濫用那事實上這個以前我們都研議過就是說\n628913\t649945\t2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧在下一頁我們即使沒有辦法去做到法庭直播這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明公開保障當事人的權益我們已經一再的在軟硬體去下手下一頁\n653607\t669375\t所以這段時間法官協會2017年就已經說了公開審判不等於法庭直播一定要三思啊下一頁而2025年的法官協會很嚴正的聲明說法院不是流量的秀場\n670416\t690943\t直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用下一頁女法官協會也發出了聲明切莫不要透過表決直接讓這一個沒有社會公式沒有社會公式的法庭直播直接倉促的上路他需要配套下一頁\n693906\t708390\t減輕減改也發生了只有中國只有專制獨裁的中國才全面推動事實審的法庭直播部長現在全世界事實審的法庭直播是不是只有中國應當是吧這個是北韓是嗎那一樣都是極權國家好我最後就以\n720205\t743327\t只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國他透過這種公審就是一種公審的大秀他可以利用司法的公審大秀來做到他的政治目的他能夠用此來恫嚇人民進行政治宣傳所以說\n744568\t753608\t台灣要向中國學習嗎?台灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習跟進嗎?\n755680\t779631\t我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題否則在5月23號已經禁覆二讀6月23號司法法治委員會委員會中心主義被沒收被踐踏我們這些專業的司法法治委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了直接就用表決來決定了我希望司法院跟法務部你們要站在你們能夠\n784322\t802216\t擁有的倡議的力量去讓社會知道公開透明不是全程直播尤其在法院我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛我們更要確保訴訟當事人參與者他的權利你們真的我要提醒你們不要認為\n811596\t812076\t好 謝謝主席 謝謝大家\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席有請複密還有部長麻煩複密署長 部長委員長好 大家辛苦了大法官憲法法庭針對台灣沒有廢除死刑我們死刑是核限的這個解釋出來之後這段時間立法院司法法治委員會對於廢死的議題我們討論過非常多次\n那我認為每一次的對話都非常的珍貴我們可以再透過我們的詢答清楚的讓社會知道台灣沒有非死死刑是核限的下一頁所以說113宪判8的結果是核限性的解釋但是要強化法律的程序跟制度的保障這些部分我已經論述過N次了我也相信台灣社會有更正確的認知下一頁\n那立法院要做的是什麼呢跟行政部門要做的是什麼呢就是第一個要尊重憲法法庭的判決這第一件事沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面針對憲法所規定的解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院的憲法法庭所以沒有人可以來站在憲法法庭判決的對立面所以立法院行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭\n的結果而不是用任何方式要去推翻它去挑戰它所以我們要做的除了尊重之外就是要啟動必要的制度配套這是我們眼前另外一個要務不管是如何避免冤獄的產生如何來防堵犯罪人來逃避刑責而且來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我也講過N次這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作下頁所以說我們要修法\n針對刑法 刑事訴訟法 法院組織法監獄刑刑 刑刑法我們要謹慎的來修法而在修法的過程持續不斷的跟社會溝通 跟人民對話所以這些都在進程當中嘛 對不對\n所以我要說的是尊重憲法法庭的判決不要亂帶風向給社會不必要的錯誤認知立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業修法下一頁但是呢\n在野黨要提出反廢死的公投消費公共議題為了他的政治目的公投要綁罷免這一頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負\n有通過也有駁回不成立的這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理不合理合法不合法一勝一負嘛所以合三言一公投是可以進行的但是反廢死公投因為這個違反公投法的規範中選會予以駁回在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟\n我們都尊重下一頁但是呢還是要說請把憲法讀好憲法78條的規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權利大法官釋字185號\n憲法增修條文的12條還有公投法的第二條都要服從憲法的規定所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法公投並不能夠否決憲判複密是不是這樣\n所以公投不能否決憲判那您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟他們不服啊他們認為散費死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢要分享一下你的觀點\n這個我們尊重那個委員他們職權的那個行使只是這個部分就是在那個除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外在那個限訴法38條第一項也有講就是憲法法院的那個判決呢還有拘束各機關跟人類的效力那各機關也有實現判決內容的義務\n所以說在野黨委員所提的這個反廢死的公投我姑且不論他有沒有政治的目的要來救罷免來做政治動員我姑且不論他就是違法違憲嘛違反憲法違反大法官釋字的解釋違反公民投票法也違反憲法訴訟法嘛\n所以說憲法解釋等同於憲法公投不能夠來否決憲判我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢負責任的向所有的公民朋友來清楚的再次表達所以這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前不聽民進黨的絕對沒問題民主不是一定要聽誰的但不聽民進黨的可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧\n陳英前教授、蘇紫橋教授、林家和副教授都提出了在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前都已經提出警示了不要把公投當作綁裝的工具當作政治的操作\n此行並未違憲而是設定了更嚴苛的標準不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則這就是為什麼中選會依法行政未來的行政訴訟我尊重在野黨但是我還是這一句話沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面下一頁\n我進入我第二個主題最近吵得很夯喔大家知道苗博雅市議員那她以證人的身份去出庭針對柯文哲前市長的金華城案但是呢她作為依法院的宣就是傳喚她她依法去履行她的責任可是她去出庭前卻被民眾黨\n鋪天蓋地的來進行抹黑攻擊也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾攻擊證人這絕對是不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧\n如果有任何的證人在依法律的規定他去出庭傳喚來配合檢調的偵辦這是他公民的職責卻被惡意的攻擊騷擾怎麼辦 怎麼處理你們可以放任這種事情嗎\n沒有辦法回答因為沒有人想像會有人發生這種事情對不對只是一個去出庭應訊的提供證言證詞的證人而已會被攻擊成這個程度而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨\n現在還打著透明公開用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊 下一頁而且很離譜的喔要修法院組織法已經進步二讀在5月23號換言之未來司法法治委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法針對法庭直播的合理性\n正當性沒有辦法進行討論直接就在立法院要被透過表決來上路了你們以後就是要執行的人耶司法院跟法務部怎麼辦\n法庭直播這件事情沒有委員會的充分討論直接淨附二讀而且我也可以預判表決前也不太有充分的發言的機會啦可能又被沒收了啦然後直接用表決\n站在你們專業的司法人員 捍衛司法的獨立也一直在推動司法的透明公開的司法院跟法務部未來都是你們要執行的欸你們樂見這樣一個修法直接用禁覆二讀的方式直接被表決通過你們 這是你們最後可能以後沒有機會了一個月後就要表決了\n那個報告委員那個司法院對這部分確實很疑慮因為在重大刑案就是譬如說是一項貪毒殺人這樣子的那個案件就是被害人跟鑑定人他們這個公開播送是無遠弗屆的他們\n就是很容易會被那個肉搜或者是說被那個威脅那他們想到這個話他們就不敢到法庭那還有就是說可能那個有心人會利用這一種那個公開播送去製造輿論全民公審那這一些事情都是不利於就是公平審判就反而會去假透明公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正干預司法影響他獨立辦案\n都會有這些負面的效果嘛那還有一點就是這個是比較難以防治的就是說你知道一公開播送之後這個資料你要怎麼收回跟那個管制這是很困難的那現在自媒體那個發達就是說這個影音可能當事人會惡意的那個剪輯然後再不到的這一些那個濫用那事實上這個以前我們都研議過就是說\n2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧在下一頁我們即使沒有辦法去做到法庭直播這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明公開保障當事人的權益我們已經一再的在軟硬體去下手下一頁\n所以這段時間法官協會2017年就已經說了公開審判不等於法庭直播一定要三思啊下一頁而2025年的法官協會很嚴正的聲明說法院不是流量的秀場\n直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用下一頁女法官協會也發出了聲明切莫不要透過表決直接讓這一個沒有社會公式沒有社會公式的法庭直播直接倉促的上路他需要配套下一頁\n減輕減改也發生了只有中國只有專制獨裁的中國才全面推動事實審的法庭直播部長現在全世界事實審的法庭直播是不是只有中國應當是吧這個是北韓是嗎那一樣都是極權國家好我最後就以\n只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國他透過這種公審就是一種公審的大秀他可以利用司法的公審大秀來做到他的政治目的他能夠用此來恫嚇人民進行政治宣傳所以說\n台灣要向中國學習嗎?台灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習跟進嗎?\n我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題否則在5月23號已經禁覆二讀6月23號司法法治委員會委員會中心主義被沒收被踐踏我們這些專業的司法法治委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了直接就用表決來決定了我希望司法院跟法務部你們要站在你們能夠\n擁有的倡議的力量去讓社會知道公開透明不是全程直播尤其在法院我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛我們更要確保訴訟當事人參與者他的權利你們真的我要提醒你們不要認為\n好 謝謝主席 謝謝大家\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.104 --> 00:12.887\n好謝謝主席有請複密還有部長麻煩複密署長部長委員長好大家辛苦了大法官憲法法庭針對台灣沒有廢除死刑我們死刑是核限的這個解釋出來之後這段時間立法院司法法治委員會對於廢死的議題我們討論過非常多次\n\n00:37.222 --> 01:05.348\n那我認為每一次的對話都非常的珍貴我們可以再透過我們的詢答清楚的讓社會知道台灣沒有非死死刑是核限的下一頁所以說113宪判8的結果是核限性的解釋但是要強化法律的程序跟制度的保障這些部分我已經論述過N次了我也相信台灣社會有更正確的認知下一頁\n\n01:06.860 --> 01:35.903\n那立法院要做的是什麼呢跟行政部門要做的是什麼呢就是第一個要尊重憲法法庭的判決這第一件事沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面針對憲法所規定的解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院的憲法法庭所以沒有人可以來站在憲法法庭判決的對立面所以立法院行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭\n\n01:36.263 --> 02:05.181\n的結果而不是用任何方式要去推翻它去挑戰它所以我們要做的除了尊重之外就是要啟動必要的制度配套這是我們眼前另外一個要務不管是如何避免冤獄的產生如何來防堵犯罪人來逃避刑責而且來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我也講過N次這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作下頁所以說我們要修法\n\n02:06.602 --> 02:21.340\n針對刑法刑事訴訟法法院組織法監獄刑刑刑刑法我們要謹慎的來修法而在修法的過程持續不斷的跟社會溝通跟人民對話所以這些都在進程當中嘛對不對\n\n02:23.669 --> 02:38.237\n所以我要說的是尊重憲法法庭的判決不要亂帶風向給社會不必要的錯誤認知立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業修法下一頁但是呢\n\n02:41.604 --> 03:00.595\n在野黨要提出反廢死的公投消費公共議題為了他的政治目的公投要綁罷免這一頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負\n\n03:01.696 --> 03:28.048\n有通過也有駁回不成立的這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理不合理合法不合法一勝一負嘛所以合三言一公投是可以進行的但是反廢死公投因為這個違反公投法的規範中選會予以駁回在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟\n\n03:29.639 --> 03:44.060\n我們都尊重下一頁但是呢還是要說請把憲法讀好憲法78條的規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權利大法官釋字185號\n\n03:45.982 --> 04:00.696\n憲法增修條文的12條還有公投法的第二條都要服從憲法的規定所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法公投並不能夠否決憲判複密是不是這樣\n\n04:05.148 --> 04:16.521\n所以公投不能否決憲判那您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟他們不服啊他們認為散費死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢要分享一下你的觀點\n\n04:19.433 --> 04:35.079\n這個我們尊重那個委員他們職權的那個行使只是這個部分就是在那個除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外在那個限訴法38條第一項也有講就是憲法法院的那個判決呢還有拘束各機關跟人類的效力那各機關也有實現判決內容的義務\n\n04:38.280 --> 04:58.234\n所以說在野黨委員所提的這個反廢死的公投我姑且不論他有沒有政治的目的要來救罷免來做政治動員我姑且不論他就是違法違憲嘛違反憲法違反大法官釋字的解釋違反公民投票法也違反憲法訴訟法嘛\n\n04:59.855 --> 05:27.645\n所以說憲法解釋等同於憲法公投不能夠來否決憲判我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢負責任的向所有的公民朋友來清楚的再次表達所以這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前不聽民進黨的絕對沒問題民主不是一定要聽誰的但不聽民進黨的可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧\n\n05:29.489 --> 05:43.921\n陳英前教授、蘇紫橋教授、林家和副教授都提出了在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前都已經提出警示了不要把公投當作綁裝的工具當作政治的操作\n\n05:45.126 --> 06:12.673\n此行並未違憲而是設定了更嚴苛的標準不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則這就是為什麼中選會依法行政未來的行政訴訟我尊重在野黨但是我還是這一句話沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面下一頁\n\n06:14.793 --> 06:42.155\n我進入我第二個主題最近吵得很夯喔大家知道苗博雅市議員那她以證人的身份去出庭針對柯文哲前市長的金華城案但是呢她作為依法院的宣就是傳喚她她依法去履行她的責任可是她去出庭前卻被民眾黨\n\n06:44.692 --> 06:53.722\n鋪天蓋地的來進行抹黑攻擊也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾攻擊證人這絕對是不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧\n\n07:01.516 --> 07:18.362\n如果有任何的證人在依法律的規定他去出庭傳喚來配合檢調的偵辦這是他公民的職責卻被惡意的攻擊騷擾怎麼辦怎麼處理你們可以放任這種事情嗎\n\n07:33.271 --> 07:46.401\n沒有辦法回答因為沒有人想像會有人發生這種事情對不對只是一個去出庭應訊的提供證言證詞的證人而已會被攻擊成這個程度而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨\n\n07:57.661 --> 08:23.091\n現在還打著透明公開用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊下一頁而且很離譜的喔要修法院組織法已經進步二讀在5月23號換言之未來司法法治委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法針對法庭直播的合理性\n\n08:24.400 --> 08:33.063\n正當性沒有辦法進行討論直接就在立法院要被透過表決來上路了你們以後就是要執行的人耶司法院跟法務部怎麼辦\n\n08:41.144 --> 08:54.009\n法庭直播這件事情沒有委員會的充分討論直接淨附二讀而且我也可以預判表決前也不太有充分的發言的機會啦可能又被沒收了啦然後直接用表決\n\n08:55.543 --> 09:13.770\n站在你們專業的司法人員捍衛司法的獨立也一直在推動司法的透明公開的司法院跟法務部未來都是你們要執行的欸你們樂見這樣一個修法直接用禁覆二讀的方式直接被表決通過你們這是你們最後可能以後沒有機會了一個月後就要表決了\n\n09:20.410 --> 09:34.909\n那個報告委員那個司法院對這部分確實很疑慮因為在重大刑案就是譬如說是一項貪毒殺人這樣子的那個案件就是被害人跟鑑定人他們這個公開播送是無遠弗屆的他們\n\n09:35.370 --> 10:03.303\n就是很容易會被那個肉搜或者是說被那個威脅那他們想到這個話他們就不敢到法庭那還有就是說可能那個有心人會利用這一種那個公開播送去製造輿論全民公審那這一些事情都是不利於就是公平審判就反而會去假透明公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正干預司法影響他獨立辦案\n\n10:04.503 --> 10:26.812\n都會有這些負面的效果嘛那還有一點就是這個是比較難以防治的就是說你知道一公開播送之後這個資料你要怎麼收回跟那個管制這是很困難的那現在自媒體那個發達就是說這個影音可能當事人會惡意的那個剪輯然後再不到的這一些那個濫用那事實上這個以前我們都研議過就是說\n\n10:28.913 --> 10:49.945\n2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧在下一頁我們即使沒有辦法去做到法庭直播這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明公開保障當事人的權益我們已經一再的在軟硬體去下手下一頁\n\n10:53.607 --> 11:09.375\n所以這段時間法官協會2017年就已經說了公開審判不等於法庭直播一定要三思啊下一頁而2025年的法官協會很嚴正的聲明說法院不是流量的秀場\n\n11:10.416 --> 11:30.943\n直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用下一頁女法官協會也發出了聲明切莫不要透過表決直接讓這一個沒有社會公式沒有社會公式的法庭直播直接倉促的上路他需要配套下一頁\n\n11:33.906 --> 11:48.390\n減輕減改也發生了只有中國只有專制獨裁的中國才全面推動事實審的法庭直播部長現在全世界事實審的法庭直播是不是只有中國應當是吧這個是北韓是嗎那一樣都是極權國家好我最後就以\n\n12:00.205 --> 12:23.327\n只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國他透過這種公審就是一種公審的大秀他可以利用司法的公審大秀來做到他的政治目的他能夠用此來恫嚇人民進行政治宣傳所以說\n\n12:24.568 --> 12:33.608\n台灣要向中國學習嗎?台灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習跟進嗎?\n\n12:35.680 --> 12:59.631\n我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題否則在5月23號已經禁覆二讀6月23號司法法治委員會委員會中心主義被沒收被踐踏我們這些專業的司法法治委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了直接就用表決來決定了我希望司法院跟法務部你們要站在你們能夠\n\n13:04.322 --> 13:22.216\n擁有的倡議的力量去讓社會知道公開透明不是全程直播尤其在法院我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛我們更要確保訴訟當事人參與者他的權利你們真的我要提醒你們不要認為\n\n13:31.596 --> 13:32.076\n好謝謝主席謝謝大家\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.104,"end":12.887,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請複密還有部長麻煩複密署長 部長委員長好 大家辛苦了大法官憲法法庭針對台灣沒有廢除死刑我們死刑是核限的這個解釋出來之後這段時間立法院司法法治委員會對於廢死的議題我們討論過非常多次"},{"start":37.222,"end":65.348,"text":"那我認為每一次的對話都非常的珍貴我們可以再透過我們的詢答清楚的讓社會知道台灣沒有非死死刑是核限的下一頁所以說113宪判8的結果是核限性的解釋但是要強化法律的程序跟制度的保障這些部分我已經論述過N次了我也相信台灣社會有更正確的認知下一頁"},{"start":66.86,"end":95.903,"text":"那立法院要做的是什麼呢跟行政部門要做的是什麼呢就是第一個要尊重憲法法庭的判決這第一件事沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面針對憲法所規定的解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院的憲法法庭所以沒有人可以來站在憲法法庭判決的對立面所以立法院行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭"},{"start":96.263,"end":125.181,"text":"的結果而不是用任何方式要去推翻它去挑戰它所以我們要做的除了尊重之外就是要啟動必要的制度配套這是我們眼前另外一個要務不管是如何避免冤獄的產生如何來防堵犯罪人來逃避刑責而且來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我也講過N次這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作下頁所以說我們要修法"},{"start":126.602,"end":141.34,"text":"針對刑法 刑事訴訟法 法院組織法監獄刑刑 刑刑法我們要謹慎的來修法而在修法的過程持續不斷的跟社會溝通 跟人民對話所以這些都在進程當中嘛 對不對"},{"start":143.669,"end":158.237,"text":"所以我要說的是尊重憲法法庭的判決不要亂帶風向給社會不必要的錯誤認知立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業修法下一頁但是呢"},{"start":161.604,"end":180.595,"text":"在野黨要提出反廢死的公投消費公共議題為了他的政治目的公投要綁罷免這一頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負"},{"start":181.696,"end":208.048,"text":"有通過也有駁回不成立的這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理不合理合法不合法一勝一負嘛所以合三言一公投是可以進行的但是反廢死公投因為這個違反公投法的規範中選會予以駁回在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟"},{"start":209.639,"end":224.06,"text":"我們都尊重下一頁但是呢還是要說請把憲法讀好憲法78條的規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權利大法官釋字185號"},{"start":225.982,"end":240.696,"text":"憲法增修條文的12條還有公投法的第二條都要服從憲法的規定所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法公投並不能夠否決憲判複密是不是這樣"},{"start":245.148,"end":256.521,"text":"所以公投不能否決憲判那您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟他們不服啊他們認為散費死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢要分享一下你的觀點"},{"start":259.433,"end":275.079,"text":"這個我們尊重那個委員他們職權的那個行使只是這個部分就是在那個除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外在那個限訴法38條第一項也有講就是憲法法院的那個判決呢還有拘束各機關跟人類的效力那各機關也有實現判決內容的義務"},{"start":278.28,"end":298.234,"text":"所以說在野黨委員所提的這個反廢死的公投我姑且不論他有沒有政治的目的要來救罷免來做政治動員我姑且不論他就是違法違憲嘛違反憲法違反大法官釋字的解釋違反公民投票法也違反憲法訴訟法嘛"},{"start":299.855,"end":327.645,"text":"所以說憲法解釋等同於憲法公投不能夠來否決憲判我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢負責任的向所有的公民朋友來清楚的再次表達所以這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前不聽民進黨的絕對沒問題民主不是一定要聽誰的但不聽民進黨的可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧"},{"start":329.489,"end":343.921,"text":"陳英前教授、蘇紫橋教授、林家和副教授都提出了在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前都已經提出警示了不要把公投當作綁裝的工具當作政治的操作"},{"start":345.126,"end":372.673,"text":"此行並未違憲而是設定了更嚴苛的標準不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則這就是為什麼中選會依法行政未來的行政訴訟我尊重在野黨但是我還是這一句話沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面下一頁"},{"start":374.793,"end":402.155,"text":"我進入我第二個主題最近吵得很夯喔大家知道苗博雅市議員那她以證人的身份去出庭針對柯文哲前市長的金華城案但是呢她作為依法院的宣就是傳喚她她依法去履行她的責任可是她去出庭前卻被民眾黨"},{"start":404.692,"end":413.722,"text":"鋪天蓋地的來進行抹黑攻擊也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾攻擊證人這絕對是不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧"},{"start":421.516,"end":438.362,"text":"如果有任何的證人在依法律的規定他去出庭傳喚來配合檢調的偵辦這是他公民的職責卻被惡意的攻擊騷擾怎麼辦 怎麼處理你們可以放任這種事情嗎"},{"start":453.271,"end":466.401,"text":"沒有辦法回答因為沒有人想像會有人發生這種事情對不對只是一個去出庭應訊的提供證言證詞的證人而已會被攻擊成這個程度而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨"},{"start":477.661,"end":503.091,"text":"現在還打著透明公開用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊 下一頁而且很離譜的喔要修法院組織法已經進步二讀在5月23號換言之未來司法法治委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法針對法庭直播的合理性"},{"start":504.4,"end":513.063,"text":"正當性沒有辦法進行討論直接就在立法院要被透過表決來上路了你們以後就是要執行的人耶司法院跟法務部怎麼辦"},{"start":521.144,"end":534.009,"text":"法庭直播這件事情沒有委員會的充分討論直接淨附二讀而且我也可以預判表決前也不太有充分的發言的機會啦可能又被沒收了啦然後直接用表決"},{"start":535.543,"end":553.77,"text":"站在你們專業的司法人員 捍衛司法的獨立也一直在推動司法的透明公開的司法院跟法務部未來都是你們要執行的欸你們樂見這樣一個修法直接用禁覆二讀的方式直接被表決通過你們 這是你們最後可能以後沒有機會了一個月後就要表決了"},{"start":560.41,"end":574.909,"text":"那個報告委員那個司法院對這部分確實很疑慮因為在重大刑案就是譬如說是一項貪毒殺人這樣子的那個案件就是被害人跟鑑定人他們這個公開播送是無遠弗屆的他們"},{"start":575.37,"end":603.303,"text":"就是很容易會被那個肉搜或者是說被那個威脅那他們想到這個話他們就不敢到法庭那還有就是說可能那個有心人會利用這一種那個公開播送去製造輿論全民公審那這一些事情都是不利於就是公平審判就反而會去假透明公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正干預司法影響他獨立辦案"},{"start":604.503,"end":626.812,"text":"都會有這些負面的效果嘛那還有一點就是這個是比較難以防治的就是說你知道一公開播送之後這個資料你要怎麼收回跟那個管制這是很困難的那現在自媒體那個發達就是說這個影音可能當事人會惡意的那個剪輯然後再不到的這一些那個濫用那事實上這個以前我們都研議過就是說"},{"start":628.913,"end":649.945,"text":"2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧在下一頁我們即使沒有辦法去做到法庭直播這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明公開保障當事人的權益我們已經一再的在軟硬體去下手下一頁"},{"start":653.607,"end":669.375,"text":"所以這段時間法官協會2017年就已經說了公開審判不等於法庭直播一定要三思啊下一頁而2025年的法官協會很嚴正的聲明說法院不是流量的秀場"},{"start":670.416,"end":690.943,"text":"直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用下一頁女法官協會也發出了聲明切莫不要透過表決直接讓這一個沒有社會公式沒有社會公式的法庭直播直接倉促的上路他需要配套下一頁"},{"start":693.906,"end":708.39,"text":"減輕減改也發生了只有中國只有專制獨裁的中國才全面推動事實審的法庭直播部長現在全世界事實審的法庭直播是不是只有中國應當是吧這個是北韓是嗎那一樣都是極權國家好我最後就以"},{"start":720.205,"end":743.327,"text":"只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國他透過這種公審就是一種公審的大秀他可以利用司法的公審大秀來做到他的政治目的他能夠用此來恫嚇人民進行政治宣傳所以說"},{"start":744.568,"end":753.608,"text":"台灣要向中國學習嗎?台灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習跟進嗎?"},{"start":755.68,"end":779.631,"text":"我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題否則在5月23號已經禁覆二讀6月23號司法法治委員會委員會中心主義被沒收被踐踏我們這些專業的司法法治委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了直接就用表決來決定了我希望司法院跟法務部你們要站在你們能夠"},{"start":784.322,"end":802.216,"text":"擁有的倡議的力量去讓社會知道公開透明不是全程直播尤其在法院我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛我們更要確保訴訟當事人參與者他的權利你們真的我要提醒你們不要認為"},{"start":811.596,"end":812.076,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝大家"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":656,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時5分）謝謝主席，有請副秘及部長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長、部長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家辛苦了。大法官憲法法庭針對臺灣沒有廢除死刑、死刑是合憲的解釋出來之後，這段時間立法院司法及法制委員會對於廢死的議題討論過非常多次，我認為每一次的對話都非常地珍貴，我們可以透過詢答清楚地讓社會知道臺灣沒有廢死、死刑是合憲的。所以113年憲判字第8號的結果是合憲性的解釋，但是要強化法律程序與制度保障，這些部分我已經論述過N次了，我也相信臺灣社會有更正確的認知。","立法院要做的是什麼呢？行政部門要做的是什麼呢？第一個，就是要尊重憲法法庭的判決，這是第一件事。沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面，針對憲法所規定的，解釋憲法的唯一權力就是司法院憲法法庭，沒有人可以站在憲法法庭判決的對立面。所以立法院、行政部門要做的第一件事情就是要尊重憲法法庭的結果，而不是用任何方式去推翻它、挑戰它。","我們要做的除了尊重之外，就是要啟動必要的制度配套，這是我們眼前另外一個要務，不管是如何避免冤獄的產生、如何防堵犯罪人逃避刑責、推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化，我也講過N次，這是我們立法委員跟行政部門的工作。所以我們要修法，針對刑法、刑事訴訟法、法院組織法、監獄行刑法謹慎地修法，而在修法的過程，要持續不斷地跟社會溝通、跟人民對話，這些都在進程當中，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：嗯。"],["吳委員思瑤：好。所以我要說的是，請尊重憲法法庭的判決，不要亂帶風向，給社會不必要的錯誤認知，立法委員要做的是做好我們的本業──修法。但是在野黨要提出反廢死的公投，消費公共議題，為了他的政治目的，公投要綁罷免，這頁PPT我也拿出來用過N次。而當中選會認為在野黨所提出的兩個公投案一勝一負，有通過，也有駁回、不成立的，這就代表中選會對於公投案行使本身合理與否、合法與否作出一勝一負的決定，所以核三延役公投是可以進行的，但是反廢死公投因為違反公投法的規範，中選會予以駁回。","在野黨的委員現在要對中選會提起行政訴訟，我們都尊重，但還是要說，請把憲法讀好，除了憲法第七十八條規定司法院有解釋憲法的唯一權力，還有大法官釋字第185號、憲法增修條文第十二條、公投法第二條，都規定要服從憲法的規定，所以憲法的解釋等同於憲法，公投並不能夠否決憲判，副秘，是不是這樣？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是的。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以公投不能否決憲判。您認為現在在野黨的委員對於中選會要提起行政訴訟，他們不服，他們認為反廢死的公投怎麼可以不成立呢？要不要分享一下你的觀點？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們尊重委員他們職權的行使，只是這個部分除了委員剛剛所講的這些依據之外，在憲訴法第三十八條第一項也有講，憲法法院的判決有拘束各機關跟人員的效力。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，沒錯。"],["王副秘書長梅英：各機關也有實現判決內容的義務。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以在野黨委員所提的反廢死公投，我姑且不論它有沒有政治的目的，要就罷免來做政治動員，但它就是違法、違憲，違反憲法、違反大法官解釋、違反公民投票法，也違反憲法訴訟法，所以憲法解釋等同於憲法，公投不能夠來否決憲判，我要再一次清楚的透過我的質詢，負責任的向所有公民朋友清楚的再次表達。","這些話我們早在在野黨執意推反廢死公投之前就說了，不聽民進黨的，絕對沒問題，民主不是一定要聽誰的，但不聽民進黨的，可以聽聽學者專家的意見吧！陳英鈐教授、蘇子喬教授、林佳和副教授在在野黨推出反廢死公投之前，都已經提出警示了，不要把公投當作綁樁的工具，當作政治的操作，死刑並未違憲，而是設定了更嚴苛的標準，不要用公投來推翻憲法法庭的解釋，更是要凸顯立法院的提案公投沒有符合明確性的原則，這就是為什麼中選會依法行政。未來的行政訴訟，我尊重在野黨，但是我還是這一句話，沒有人可以站在憲法的對立面。","進入我的第二個主題，最近吵得很夯，針對柯文哲前市長的京華城案，大家知道苗博雅市議員以證人的身分出庭，而法院傳喚他，他依法去履行他的責任，可是他在出庭前，卻被民眾黨鋪天蓋地進行抹黑、攻擊，也就是在開庭前公然的去騷擾、攻擊證人，這絕對不應該在民主法治社會發生的事吧！如果有任何的證人依法律的規定經傳喚出庭、配合檢調的偵辦，這是他公民的職責，卻被惡意的攻擊、騷擾，怎麼辦？怎麼處理？副秘，沒辦法嗎？你們可以放任這種事情嗎？沒有辦法回答，因為沒辦法想像會有人發生這種事情，對不對？只是一個去出庭應訊、提供證言、證詞的證人而已，會被攻擊成這個程度！而這一個政黨現在還要推法庭直播啊！最愛妨礙司法公正的政黨，現在還打著透明、公開，用民粹的操作要去推法庭直播啊！","而且很離譜的，還要修法院組織法，這已經逕付二讀，在5月23號。換言之，未來司法及法制委員會沒有任何機會具體討論法院組織法，針對法庭直播的合理性、正當性，沒有辦法進行討論，直接就在立法院透過表決來上路了，你們以後就是要執行的人，司法院跟法務部，怎麼辦？法庭直播這件事情，沒有委員會的充分討論，直接逕付二讀，而且我也可以預判，表決前也不太會有充分的發言機會，可能又被沒收了，然後直接用表決，站在你們司法人員的專業，捍衛司法的獨立，也一直在推動司法透明、公開的司法院跟法務部，未來這都是你們要執行的，你們樂見這樣一個修法嗎？直接用逕付二讀的方式，直接被表決通過，你們以後可能沒有機會了，因為一個月後就要表決了。"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，司法院對這部分確實很疑慮，因為在重大刑案譬如說貪瀆、殺人等案件，因為公開播送是無遠弗屆的，被害人跟鑑定人他們很容易會被肉搜，或者是被威脅，一想到這個，他們就不敢到法庭；還有，可能有心人士會利用這一種公開播送去製造輿論、全民公審，這一些事情都是不利於公平審判。"],["吳委員思瑤：反而就是會假透明、公開之名來行使妨礙司法公正、干預司法，影響他獨立辦案，都會有這些負面的效果。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是的。還有一點，而且這是比較難以防治的，就是只要一公開播送之後，這個資料要怎麼收回跟管制，是很困難的，現在自媒體很發達，影音的部分，可能經當事人會惡意的剪輯然後予以不當的濫用……"],["吳委員思瑤：是，沒有錯。"],["王副秘書長梅英：事實上，以前我們都研議過，就是說……"],["吳委員思瑤：2017年確實司改國是會議有這樣子的討論，但是之所以這麼多年沒有辦法全面去推法庭直播，就是因為學界跟實務界的意見分歧。","我們即使沒有辦法做到法庭直播，這幾年來落實司法資訊的透明、公開，保障當事人的權益，我們已經一再的就軟硬體去下手，所以這段時間以來，2017年法官協會就已經說了，公開審判不等於法庭直播，一定要三思啊！2025年法官協會很嚴正的聲明說，法院不是流量的秀場，直播並不是提升司法公信力的解方，反而會造成非常嚴重的副作用；女法官協會也發出了聲明，切莫、不要透過表決，直接讓這一個沒有社會共識的法庭直播倉促的上路，它是需要配套的；劍青檢改也發聲了，只有專制獨裁的中國，才會全面推動事實審的法庭直播。部長，現在全世界事實審的法庭直播，是不是只有中國？應當是吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是……"],["吳委員思瑤：北韓也是嗎？那一樣都是極權國家。","我最後就以只有中國在推動事實審的法庭直播來談，因為在司法欠缺獨立審判的中國，它透過這種公審，就是一種公審的大秀，它可以利用司法的公審大秀來達到它的政治目的，能夠用此來恫嚇人民，進行政治宣傳，所以臺灣要向中國學習嗎？臺灣要向毫無司法獨立審判的中國學習、跟進嗎？我希望未來我們還有機會好好討論法庭直播這個議題，否則在5月23號已經逕付二讀；6月23號，司法及法制委員會委員會中心主議被沒收、被踐踏，我們這些專業的司法及法制委員沒有機會在這裡就教於你們，沒有辦法跟法界、實務界討論了，直接就用表決來決定了。","我希望司法院跟法務部，你們要站在你們能夠擁有的倡議力量，去讓社會知道公開、透明不是全程直播，尤其在法院，我們除了對於公共知的權利的公益權的捍衛，我們更要確保訴訟當事人、參與者的權利。我要提醒你們，不要認為立法院表決是立法院的事，以後都是你們司法人員要來承受莫大的壓力，整個司法公正可能會受到莫大的影響跟癱瘓。不好意思，我占用多一點時間，只剩下一個月不到的時間，立法院就要強行表決了，絕對是非常serious的事情，我在這裡予以提醒，謝謝主席，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝。剛剛我跟衛福部呂次長要的那個東西，我那個時間講錯了，因為我們上個禮拜就發文給你們了，且我跟你們說兩個禮拜，兩個禮拜是從上個禮拜就起算，所以這禮拜要麻煩你們給我，因為那個資料應該不會很難，我們上週就發文過去了，再麻煩次長，謝謝次長。","我們現在依照剛剛的宣告，休息5分鐘。","休息（11時19分）","繼續開會（11時26分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","下一位請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-19","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","王育敏","張智倫","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","羅智強","林月琴","張啓楷","陳培瑜","王育敏","陳冠廷","林倩綺"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─ 包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳\n述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57\n條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委\n員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等16人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條\n及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一\n條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條\n文修正草案」案、( 七) 委員邱鎮軍等19 人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員葉\n元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等21人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145701_00005"}}}