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11:55:24","影片長度":"00:11:31","會議時間":"2025-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二案（九）至（十一）如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T11:43:53+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T11:55:24+08:00","duration":691,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-3-36-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162223","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162223","tool":"pyannote","id":"162223-pyannote"},"job_id":"kj7uUgPnXM4AJRxQ","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,930\n好謝謝主席那先有請司法院還有法務部謝謝麻煩複密還有部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,038 --> 00:00:43,645\n好針對剛剛張祺凱委員的造謠我要公開的說在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著集結一場苗頭不對的司法對決正式開打第二張圖卡搭配就是520禮拜二早上10點台北地檢署站出來這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書你可能好來我要回到我自己的議題上\n\n3\n00:00:46,653 --> 00:01:13,504\n在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水我們要一直說道理好來謝謝你們我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關議題喔從法啟公投辦公廳會到現在專題報告那既然要談死刑我們就來好好談一談第一個我想要問喔沒有廢死何來實質廢死我想問兩位就你們的法律專業我下這個標題有沒有問題\n\n4\n00:01:15,936 --> 00:01:40,909\n我認為既然台灣現在沒有廢死何來所謂實質廢死法官在那個憲判八裡面主文就宣示了就是死刑它並不違憲的是好我們再來往下看喔事實上在台灣從中華民國刑法立法以來一直到目前為止從來沒有一天有廢除死刑請問委員長說的是對的嗎\n\n5\n00:01:42,481 --> 00:01:58,933\n是好那在113年宪判第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件核限也就是並沒有違憲而核限的條件意思就是我們要慎重因為死刑沒有tryanderror的空間以上的論述對不對\n\n6\n00:01:59,833 --> 00:02:16,054\n是如果是這個論述我們往下來看我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決我認為如果放在所謂憲判的主文裡面也就是說這個是憲法解釋的核心見解那憲判解釋出來我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度\n\n7\n00:02:17,552 --> 00:02:42,990\n是好沒有錯以上我就說這一年在立法院很辛苦我們得一直說道理那我們就來好好說以上我要請問法務部我的這個問題非常非常簡單其實答案也都已經公佈了法務部跟您做事時的確認在113年憲判8號的判決之後部長我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑你只要告訴我yes還是no\n\n8\n00:02:43,490 --> 00:02:58,042\n有在今年的1月16日有執行也就是說憲法法庭判決的結果並沒有影響到死刑的執行對不對法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑\n\n9\n00:02:58,743 --> 00:03:13,220\n以法執行好以法執行沒錯我剛說以法執行好謝謝部長來下一張我想要繼續請問喔再跟你做另外一個事實的確認你們在今年年初做了一件事情叫做修正死刑執行規則\n\n10\n00:03:14,722 --> 00:03:36,865\n而且整個看起來方向是變得更為嚴格意思就是說原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟申請但是你們讓這個暫緩的申請跟執行變得更加嚴格對不對更加的一個合理因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後我們各界省也是很多\n\n11\n00:03:38,553 --> 00:03:54,600\n辦了四次的座談就是各界的一個意見也就是說你們的修正必須跟國人交代的是我們並沒有朝向寬鬆甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向來處理這是我解讀對嗎\n\n12\n00:03:55,580 --> 00:04:21,366\n是更合理的一個方式也就是沒有變得更寬鬆喔沒有變得要廢死喔對嗎沒有要廢死好我再次強調嘛因為現在有很多輿論有很多論述我認為是在導向錯誤的論述所以在公開的質詢謝謝您剛的回覆也就是我們並沒有往這裡去走對嗎這個是更合理的因為主張那個整個也配合大家的一個廣大意見是能夠在執行時期更合理\n\n13\n00:04:21,866 --> 00:04:43,320\n好那下一張也就是說在憲法法庭判決結束之後我們來看這個新聞仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決我再強調一次這是在憲判法庭做出判決結果之後而且這是聯合報的媒體他自己就寫了釋憲後來首判死理由曝光\n\n14\n00:04:44,281 --> 00:05:03,739\n也就是說我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的也就是說現判後的死刑判決依然在進行而且從來沒有停止廢除死刑這件事情也就是我認為如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的那怎麼會有現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死您怎麼看這個事情\n\n15\n00:05:05,541 --> 00:05:17,670\n自從就是113年先判八字號判決出來之後呢事實上有兩件就是有馬國馬來西亞籍大女生她那個那個那個殺\n\n16\n00:05:19,042 --> 00:05:41,488\n那個這部分一二審都是判有罪那個二審是判有罪另外那個高雄地院那審理那惡靈那個無性的一個被告那這邊把鄰居夫妻殺死的這件也一審判死這都是在憲判八字判決之後的判決那可見那個這部分有實務上的一個兩個一個案例的一個實行的一個判決\n\n17\n00:05:42,308 --> 00:06:07,203\n謝謝部長說明的很清楚接下來我想請問司法院我們不要就個案來評判好不好我們我想請教司法院司法院你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後法院所做出的這個死刑判決是合理的嗎我不是說個案這樣判而是說我們本來就可以繼續做出死刑判決對不對是就是在那個憲判八底下所要求的這一些不管是程序或是實體的那個檢驗上面好\n\n18\n00:06:07,643 --> 00:06:32,857\n所以兩位講的都非常非常清楚我們來看下一個這個是上一頁我剛剛提出來那個案件聯合報報導這個新聞案件高雄地院的判決我還有附上判決字號大家有興趣可以自己去查在這個判決當中就明確的記載了憲法法庭判決的內容甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中認定死刑是核限的但是因為相關資料太多我就不再贅述我想要繼續請教兩位\n\n19\n00:06:34,278 --> 00:07:02,674\n既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是核限的而在憲法法庭判決過後如同我們剛剛對過的資料法院可以繼續判處死刑而法務部依然可以簽准死刑還有相關的死刑規則我們也都去調整了那怎麼會有繼續這樣的言論叫做實質廢死我真的覺得很莫名其妙那我認為扯出這樣的言論真的是法盲理盲邏輯盲怎麼說我不要到下一頁我想要問\n\n20\n00:07:04,028 --> 00:07:12,580\n之前藍白修法修了憲法訴訟法加高了門檻讓大法官人數不足那我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭\n\n21\n00:07:16,052 --> 00:07:43,893\n好你們微笑沒關係這是我個人的見解我認為如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情那我是不是也可以這樣說當然這是我的見解我就不讓你們回答我只是要說這件事情我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論好下一張那死刑一字決不是重大政策可是藍白繼續裝睡覺不行甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟來\n\n22\n00:07:45,580 --> 00:08:03,813\n在過去我們針對這個案子其實民進黨委員都努力的論述可是我們一直提醒這個案子有問題這個案子有問題那我剛剛已經提醒了公投出來的結果它是法律未接可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法未接\n\n23\n00:08:04,674 --> 00:08:31,466\n就一個國中生的公民課上完以後他應該都會知道憲法跟法律未接是截然不同絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力對嗎我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情可是如果我們來看過往在台灣曾經實行過的公投還有44748號解釋關於同婚還有後續的很多人提出的反同公投其實已經示範過一次\n\n24\n00:08:33,067 --> 00:09:01,460\n我認為藍白是忘記或者是不敢想起來我其實還是不知道但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽創造出非常多錯假的訊息這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾我也想要跟兩位討論我認為是不是要廢除死刑可以被認定是重大政策可是所謂的死刑以治絕事實上已經涉及到比較技術性比較細節的項目它不會是所謂重大性政策\n\n25\n00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:17,389\n也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情又回到創製或者是覆決我都認為是有問題的我想要快速跟兩位請教你們怎麼看好啦我不要為難你們我自己往下說我剛已經說了下一張\n\n26\n00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:33,523\n在禮拜二程序委員會我們看到這個提案了我認為藍白相關提案被中選會打臉我認為已經很丟臉了可是我想要問更荒謬的是現在還要提起行政訴訟我自己也是立法院的議員\n\n27\n00:09:35,184 --> 00:10:03,838\n對於國人來說不管藍白綠我們都是立法委員假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了然後我們也輸了我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況喔我非常非常的擔心好下一張死刑這件事情喔我在上一次質詢的時候或者是之前在討論的時候我就說慎重非常的重要人命關天這件事情非常的重要\n\n28\n00:10:06,045 --> 00:10:24,335\n藍白在很多方面我都已經不知道過去做十幾年親子教育的我要怎麼去教家長讓家長去教小孩今天是六四在中國今天沒有六四今天叫做五月三十五號沒有六四我再說一次今天在中國不會有六四是五月三十五號\n\n29\n00:10:25,396 --> 00:10:51,493\n在台灣有一群人不敢面對的輕蔑人命罔顧人命不顧正義不顧公正很多事情到現在依然沒有說清楚講明白也沒有人對相關事情道歉在台灣就是白色恐怖就是戒嚴很多人的生命就此犧牲相關的協商會議當中我還記得有一次喔我想要談這個事情藍白就站起來走人了我猜想他們不敢想起來不敢面對\n\n30\n00:10:52,794 --> 00:11:13,480\n而在今天談死性疑似覺這件事情上我想要最後用這張投影片要提醒大家人命關天這件事情非常非常的重要不管你站在哪一方我認為每一個人的性命都一樣的重要而慎重這件事情絕對是非常非常重要再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常的清楚我們並沒有往那個路上前去我們\n\n31\n00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:28,786\n在憲法判決之後相關的案例還是有判處死刑不僅可以簽准可以執行我想台灣這件事情我們應該要繼續合理的討論以上好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10080\t15930\t好 謝謝主席 那先有請司法院還有法務部 謝謝麻煩複密還有部長\n21038\t43645\t好 針對剛剛張祺凱委員的造謠我要公開的說在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著集結一場苗頭不對的司法對決正式開打第二張圖卡搭配就是520禮拜二早上10點台北地檢署站出來這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書你可能好 來我要回到我自己的議題上\n46653\t73504\t在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水我們要一直說道理好來謝謝你們我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關議題喔從法啟公投辦公廳會到現在專題報告那既然要談死刑我們就來好好談一談第一個我想要問喔沒有廢死何來實質廢死我想問兩位就你們的法律專業我下這個標題有沒有問題\n75936\t100909\t我認為既然台灣現在沒有廢死 何來所謂實質廢死法官在那個憲判八裡面主文就宣示了 就是死刑它並不違憲的是 好 我們再來往下看喔事實上在台灣從中華民國刑法立法以來一直到目前為止從來沒有一天有廢除死刑 請問委員長說的是對的嗎\n102481\t118933\t是好那在113年宪判第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件核限也就是並沒有違憲而核限的條件意思就是我們要慎重因為死刑沒有try and error的空間以上的論述對不對\n119833\t136054\t是如果是這個論述我們往下來看我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決我認為如果放在所謂憲判的主文裡面也就是說這個是憲法解釋的核心見解那憲判解釋出來我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度\n137552\t162990\t是好沒有錯以上我就說這一年在立法院很辛苦我們得一直說道理那我們就來好好說以上我要請問法務部我的這個問題非常非常簡單其實答案也都已經公佈了法務部跟您做事時的確認在113年憲判8號的判決之後部長我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑你只要告訴我yes還是no\n163490\t178042\t有在今年的1月16日有執行也就是說憲法法庭判決的結果並沒有影響到死刑的執行對不對法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑\n178743\t193220\t以法執行好 以法執行沒錯我剛說以法執行好 謝謝部長來 下一張我想要繼續請問喔再跟你做另外一個事實的確認你們在今年年初做了一件事情叫做修正死刑執行規則\n194722\t216865\t而且整個看起來方向是變得更為嚴格意思就是說原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟申請但是你們讓這個暫緩的申請跟執行變得更加嚴格對不對更加的一個合理因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後我們各界省也是很多\n218553\t234600\t辦了四次的座談就是各界的一個意見也就是說你們的修正必須跟國人交代的是我們並沒有朝向寬鬆甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向來處理這是我解讀 對嗎\n235580\t261366\t是更合理的一個方式也就是沒有變得更寬鬆喔沒有變得要廢死喔對嗎沒有要廢死好我再次強調嘛因為現在有很多輿論有很多論述我認為是在導向錯誤的論述所以在公開的質詢謝謝您剛的回覆也就是我們並沒有往這裡去走對嗎這個是更合理的因為主張那個整個也配合大家的一個廣大意見是能夠在執行時期更合理\n261866\t283320\t好那下一張也就是說在憲法法庭判決結束之後我們來看這個新聞仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決我再強調一次這是在憲判法庭做出判決結果之後而且這是聯合報的媒體他自己就寫了釋憲後來首判死理由曝光\n284281\t303739\t也就是說我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的也就是說現判後的死刑判決依然在進行而且從來沒有停止廢除死刑這件事情也就是我認為如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的那怎麼會有現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死您怎麼看這個事情\n305541\t317670\t自從就是113年先判八字號判決出來之後呢事實上有兩件就是有馬國馬來西亞籍大女生她那個那個那個殺\n319042\t341488\t那個這部分一二審都是判有罪那個二審是判有罪另外那個高雄地院那審理那惡靈那個無性的一個被告那這邊把鄰居夫妻殺死的這件也一審判死這都是在憲判八字判決之後的判決那可見那個這部分有實務上的一個兩個一個案例的一個實行的一個判決\n342308\t367203\t謝謝部長說明的很清楚接下來我想請問司法院我們不要就個案來評判好不好我們我想請教司法院司法院你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後法院所做出的這個死刑判決是合理的嗎我不是說個案這樣判而是說我們本來就可以繼續做出死刑判決對不對是就是在那個憲判八底下所要求的這一些不管是程序或是實體的那個檢驗上面好\n367643\t392857\t所以兩位講的都非常非常清楚我們來看下一個這個是上一頁我剛剛提出來那個案件聯合報報導這個新聞案件高雄地院的判決我還有附上判決字號大家有興趣可以自己去查在這個判決當中就明確的記載了憲法法庭判決的內容甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中認定死刑是核限的但是因為相關資料太多我就不再贅述我想要繼續請教兩位\n394278\t422674\t既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是核限的而在憲法法庭判決過後 如同我們剛剛對過的資料法院可以繼續判處死刑而法務部依然可以簽准死刑還有相關的死刑規則 我們也都去調整了那怎麼會有繼續這樣的言論 叫做實質廢死我真的覺得很莫名其妙那我認為 扯出這樣的言論真的是法盲 理盲 邏輯盲 怎麼說我不要到下一頁 我想要問\n424028\t432580\t之前藍白修法修了憲法訴訟法加高了門檻讓大法官人數不足那我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭\n436052\t463893\t好你們微笑沒關係這是我個人的見解我認為如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情那我是不是也可以這樣說當然這是我的見解我就不讓你們回答我只是要說這件事情我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論好下一張那死刑一字決不是重大政策可是藍白繼續裝睡覺不行甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟來\n465580\t483813\t在過去我們針對這個案子其實民進黨委員都努力的論述可是我們一直提醒這個案子有問題這個案子有問題那我剛剛已經提醒了公投出來的結果它是法律未接可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法未接\n484674\t511466\t就一個國中生的公民課上完以後他應該都會知道憲法跟法律未接是截然不同絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力對嗎我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情可是如果我們來看過往在台灣曾經實行過的公投還有44748號解釋關於同婚還有後續的很多人提出的反同公投其實已經示範過一次\n513067\t541460\t我認為藍白是忘記或者是不敢想起來我其實還是不知道但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽創造出非常多錯假的訊息這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾我也想要跟兩位討論我認為是不是要廢除死刑可以被認定是重大政策可是所謂的死刑以治絕事實上已經涉及到比較技術性比較細節的項目它不會是所謂重大性政策\n541960\t557389\t也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情又回到創製或者是覆決我都認為是有問題的我想要快速跟兩位請教你們怎麼看好啦我不要為難你們我自己往下說我剛已經說了下一張\n558490\t573523\t在禮拜二程序委員會我們看到這個提案了我認為藍白相關提案被中選會打臉我認為已經很丟臉了可是我想要問更荒謬的是現在還要提起行政訴訟我自己也是立法院的議員\n575184\t603838\t對於國人來說不管藍白綠我們都是立法委員假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了然後我們也輸了我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況喔我非常非常的擔心好 下一張死刑這件事情喔我在上一次質詢的時候或者是之前在討論的時候我就說慎重非常的重要人命關天這件事情非常的重要\n606045\t624335\t藍白在很多方面我都已經不知道過去做十幾年親子教育的我要怎麼去教家長讓家長去教小孩今天是六四在中國今天沒有六四今天叫做五月三十五號沒有六四我再說一次今天在中國不會有六四是五月三十五號\n625396\t651493\t在台灣 有一群人不敢面對的輕蔑人命 罔顧人命不顧正義 不顧公正很多事情到現在 依然沒有說清楚 講明白也沒有人對相關事情道歉在台灣就是白色恐怖 就是戒嚴很多人的生命就此犧牲相關的協商會議當中 我還記得有一次喔我想要談這個事情 藍白就站起來走人了我猜想他們不敢想起來 不敢面對\n652794\t673480\t而在今天談死性疑似覺這件事情上我想要最後用這張投影片要提醒大家人命關天這件事情非常非常的重要不管你站在哪一方我認為每一個人的性命都一樣的重要而慎重這件事情絕對是非常非常重要再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常的清楚我們並沒有往那個路上前去我們\n674480\t688786\t在憲法判決之後相關的案例還是有判處死刑不僅可以簽准可以執行我想台灣這件事情我們應該要繼續合理的討論以上好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那先有請司法院還有法務部 謝謝麻煩複密還有部長\n好 針對剛剛張祺凱委員的造謠我要公開的說在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著集結一場苗頭不對的司法對決正式開打第二張圖卡搭配就是520禮拜二早上10點台北地檢署站出來這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書你可能好 來我要回到我自己的議題上\n在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水我們要一直說道理好來謝謝你們我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關議題喔從法啟公投辦公廳會到現在專題報告那既然要談死刑我們就來好好談一談第一個我想要問喔沒有廢死何來實質廢死我想問兩位就你們的法律專業我下這個標題有沒有問題\n我認為既然台灣現在沒有廢死 何來所謂實質廢死法官在那個憲判八裡面主文就宣示了 就是死刑它並不違憲的是 好 我們再來往下看喔事實上在台灣從中華民國刑法立法以來一直到目前為止從來沒有一天有廢除死刑 請問委員長說的是對的嗎\n是好那在113年宪判第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件核限也就是並沒有違憲而核限的條件意思就是我們要慎重因為死刑沒有try and error的空間以上的論述對不對\n是如果是這個論述我們往下來看我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決我認為如果放在所謂憲判的主文裡面也就是說這個是憲法解釋的核心見解那憲判解釋出來我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度\n是好沒有錯以上我就說這一年在立法院很辛苦我們得一直說道理那我們就來好好說以上我要請問法務部我的這個問題非常非常簡單其實答案也都已經公佈了法務部跟您做事時的確認在113年憲判8號的判決之後部長我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑你只要告訴我yes還是no\n有在今年的1月16日有執行也就是說憲法法庭判決的結果並沒有影響到死刑的執行對不對法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑\n以法執行好 以法執行沒錯我剛說以法執行好 謝謝部長來 下一張我想要繼續請問喔再跟你做另外一個事實的確認你們在今年年初做了一件事情叫做修正死刑執行規則\n而且整個看起來方向是變得更為嚴格意思就是說原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟申請但是你們讓這個暫緩的申請跟執行變得更加嚴格對不對更加的一個合理因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後我們各界省也是很多\n辦了四次的座談就是各界的一個意見也就是說你們的修正必須跟國人交代的是我們並沒有朝向寬鬆甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向來處理這是我解讀 對嗎\n是更合理的一個方式也就是沒有變得更寬鬆喔沒有變得要廢死喔對嗎沒有要廢死好我再次強調嘛因為現在有很多輿論有很多論述我認為是在導向錯誤的論述所以在公開的質詢謝謝您剛的回覆也就是我們並沒有往這裡去走對嗎這個是更合理的因為主張那個整個也配合大家的一個廣大意見是能夠在執行時期更合理\n好那下一張也就是說在憲法法庭判決結束之後我們來看這個新聞仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決我再強調一次這是在憲判法庭做出判決結果之後而且這是聯合報的媒體他自己就寫了釋憲後來首判死理由曝光\n也就是說我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的也就是說現判後的死刑判決依然在進行而且從來沒有停止廢除死刑這件事情也就是我認為如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的那怎麼會有現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死您怎麼看這個事情\n自從就是113年先判八字號判決出來之後呢事實上有兩件就是有馬國馬來西亞籍大女生她那個那個那個殺\n那個這部分一二審都是判有罪那個二審是判有罪另外那個高雄地院那審理那惡靈那個無性的一個被告那這邊把鄰居夫妻殺死的這件也一審判死這都是在憲判八字判決之後的判決那可見那個這部分有實務上的一個兩個一個案例的一個實行的一個判決\n謝謝部長說明的很清楚接下來我想請問司法院我們不要就個案來評判好不好我們我想請教司法院司法院你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後法院所做出的這個死刑判決是合理的嗎我不是說個案這樣判而是說我們本來就可以繼續做出死刑判決對不對是就是在那個憲判八底下所要求的這一些不管是程序或是實體的那個檢驗上面好\n所以兩位講的都非常非常清楚我們來看下一個這個是上一頁我剛剛提出來那個案件聯合報報導這個新聞案件高雄地院的判決我還有附上判決字號大家有興趣可以自己去查在這個判決當中就明確的記載了憲法法庭判決的內容甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中認定死刑是核限的但是因為相關資料太多我就不再贅述我想要繼續請教兩位\n既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是核限的而在憲法法庭判決過後 如同我們剛剛對過的資料法院可以繼續判處死刑而法務部依然可以簽准死刑還有相關的死刑規則 我們也都去調整了那怎麼會有繼續這樣的言論 叫做實質廢死我真的覺得很莫名其妙那我認為 扯出這樣的言論真的是法盲 理盲 邏輯盲 怎麼說我不要到下一頁 我想要問\n之前藍白修法修了憲法訴訟法加高了門檻讓大法官人數不足那我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭\n好你們微笑沒關係這是我個人的見解我認為如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情那我是不是也可以這樣說當然這是我的見解我就不讓你們回答我只是要說這件事情我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論好下一張那死刑一字決不是重大政策可是藍白繼續裝睡覺不行甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟來\n在過去我們針對這個案子其實民進黨委員都努力的論述可是我們一直提醒這個案子有問題這個案子有問題那我剛剛已經提醒了公投出來的結果它是法律未接可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法未接\n就一個國中生的公民課上完以後他應該都會知道憲法跟法律未接是截然不同絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力對嗎我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情可是如果我們來看過往在台灣曾經實行過的公投還有44748號解釋關於同婚還有後續的很多人提出的反同公投其實已經示範過一次\n我認為藍白是忘記或者是不敢想起來我其實還是不知道但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽創造出非常多錯假的訊息這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾我也想要跟兩位討論我認為是不是要廢除死刑可以被認定是重大政策可是所謂的死刑以治絕事實上已經涉及到比較技術性比較細節的項目它不會是所謂重大性政策\n也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情又回到創製或者是覆決我都認為是有問題的我想要快速跟兩位請教你們怎麼看好啦我不要為難你們我自己往下說我剛已經說了下一張\n在禮拜二程序委員會我們看到這個提案了我認為藍白相關提案被中選會打臉我認為已經很丟臉了可是我想要問更荒謬的是現在還要提起行政訴訟我自己也是立法院的議員\n對於國人來說不管藍白綠我們都是立法委員假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了然後我們也輸了我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況喔我非常非常的擔心好 下一張死刑這件事情喔我在上一次質詢的時候或者是之前在討論的時候我就說慎重非常的重要人命關天這件事情非常的重要\n藍白在很多方面我都已經不知道過去做十幾年親子教育的我要怎麼去教家長讓家長去教小孩今天是六四在中國今天沒有六四今天叫做五月三十五號沒有六四我再說一次今天在中國不會有六四是五月三十五號\n在台灣 有一群人不敢面對的輕蔑人命 罔顧人命不顧正義 不顧公正很多事情到現在 依然沒有說清楚 講明白也沒有人對相關事情道歉在台灣就是白色恐怖 就是戒嚴很多人的生命就此犧牲相關的協商會議當中 我還記得有一次喔我想要談這個事情 藍白就站起來走人了我猜想他們不敢想起來 不敢面對\n而在今天談死性疑似覺這件事情上我想要最後用這張投影片要提醒大家人命關天這件事情非常非常的重要不管你站在哪一方我認為每一個人的性命都一樣的重要而慎重這件事情絕對是非常非常重要再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常的清楚我們並沒有往那個路上前去我們\n在憲法判決之後相關的案例還是有判處死刑不僅可以簽准可以執行我想台灣這件事情我們應該要繼續合理的討論以上好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.080 --> 00:15.930\n好謝謝主席那先有請司法院還有法務部謝謝麻煩複密還有部長\n\n00:21.038 --> 00:43.645\n好針對剛剛張祺凱委員的造謠我要公開的說在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著集結一場苗頭不對的司法對決正式開打第二張圖卡搭配就是520禮拜二早上10點台北地檢署站出來這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書你可能好來我要回到我自己的議題上\n\n00:46.653 --> 01:13.504\n在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水我們要一直說道理好來謝謝你們我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關議題喔從法啟公投辦公廳會到現在專題報告那既然要談死刑我們就來好好談一談第一個我想要問喔沒有廢死何來實質廢死我想問兩位就你們的法律專業我下這個標題有沒有問題\n\n01:15.936 --> 01:40.909\n我認為既然台灣現在沒有廢死何來所謂實質廢死法官在那個憲判八裡面主文就宣示了就是死刑它並不違憲的是好我們再來往下看喔事實上在台灣從中華民國刑法立法以來一直到目前為止從來沒有一天有廢除死刑請問委員長說的是對的嗎\n\n01:42.481 --> 01:58.933\n是好那在113年宪判第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件核限也就是並沒有違憲而核限的條件意思就是我們要慎重因為死刑沒有tryanderror的空間以上的論述對不對\n\n01:59.833 --> 02:16.054\n是如果是這個論述我們往下來看我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決我認為如果放在所謂憲判的主文裡面也就是說這個是憲法解釋的核心見解那憲判解釋出來我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度\n\n02:17.552 --> 02:42.990\n是好沒有錯以上我就說這一年在立法院很辛苦我們得一直說道理那我們就來好好說以上我要請問法務部我的這個問題非常非常簡單其實答案也都已經公佈了法務部跟您做事時的確認在113年憲判8號的判決之後部長我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑你只要告訴我yes還是no\n\n02:43.490 --> 02:58.042\n有在今年的1月16日有執行也就是說憲法法庭判決的結果並沒有影響到死刑的執行對不對法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑\n\n02:58.743 --> 03:13.220\n以法執行好以法執行沒錯我剛說以法執行好謝謝部長來下一張我想要繼續請問喔再跟你做另外一個事實的確認你們在今年年初做了一件事情叫做修正死刑執行規則\n\n03:14.722 --> 03:36.865\n而且整個看起來方向是變得更為嚴格意思就是說原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟申請但是你們讓這個暫緩的申請跟執行變得更加嚴格對不對更加的一個合理因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後我們各界省也是很多\n\n03:38.553 --> 03:54.600\n辦了四次的座談就是各界的一個意見也就是說你們的修正必須跟國人交代的是我們並沒有朝向寬鬆甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向來處理這是我解讀對嗎\n\n03:55.580 --> 04:21.366\n是更合理的一個方式也就是沒有變得更寬鬆喔沒有變得要廢死喔對嗎沒有要廢死好我再次強調嘛因為現在有很多輿論有很多論述我認為是在導向錯誤的論述所以在公開的質詢謝謝您剛的回覆也就是我們並沒有往這裡去走對嗎這個是更合理的因為主張那個整個也配合大家的一個廣大意見是能夠在執行時期更合理\n\n04:21.866 --> 04:43.320\n好那下一張也就是說在憲法法庭判決結束之後我們來看這個新聞仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決我再強調一次這是在憲判法庭做出判決結果之後而且這是聯合報的媒體他自己就寫了釋憲後來首判死理由曝光\n\n04:44.281 --> 05:03.739\n也就是說我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的也就是說現判後的死刑判決依然在進行而且從來沒有停止廢除死刑這件事情也就是我認為如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的那怎麼會有現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死您怎麼看這個事情\n\n05:05.541 --> 05:17.670\n自從就是113年先判八字號判決出來之後呢事實上有兩件就是有馬國馬來西亞籍大女生她那個那個那個殺\n\n05:19.042 --> 05:41.488\n那個這部分一二審都是判有罪那個二審是判有罪另外那個高雄地院那審理那惡靈那個無性的一個被告那這邊把鄰居夫妻殺死的這件也一審判死這都是在憲判八字判決之後的判決那可見那個這部分有實務上的一個兩個一個案例的一個實行的一個判決\n\n05:42.308 --> 06:07.203\n謝謝部長說明的很清楚接下來我想請問司法院我們不要就個案來評判好不好我們我想請教司法院司法院你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後法院所做出的這個死刑判決是合理的嗎我不是說個案這樣判而是說我們本來就可以繼續做出死刑判決對不對是就是在那個憲判八底下所要求的這一些不管是程序或是實體的那個檢驗上面好\n\n06:07.643 --> 06:32.857\n所以兩位講的都非常非常清楚我們來看下一個這個是上一頁我剛剛提出來那個案件聯合報報導這個新聞案件高雄地院的判決我還有附上判決字號大家有興趣可以自己去查在這個判決當中就明確的記載了憲法法庭判決的內容甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中認定死刑是核限的但是因為相關資料太多我就不再贅述我想要繼續請教兩位\n\n06:34.278 --> 07:02.674\n既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是核限的而在憲法法庭判決過後如同我們剛剛對過的資料法院可以繼續判處死刑而法務部依然可以簽准死刑還有相關的死刑規則我們也都去調整了那怎麼會有繼續這樣的言論叫做實質廢死我真的覺得很莫名其妙那我認為扯出這樣的言論真的是法盲理盲邏輯盲怎麼說我不要到下一頁我想要問\n\n07:04.028 --> 07:12.580\n之前藍白修法修了憲法訴訟法加高了門檻讓大法官人數不足那我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭\n\n07:16.052 --> 07:43.893\n好你們微笑沒關係這是我個人的見解我認為如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情那我是不是也可以這樣說當然這是我的見解我就不讓你們回答我只是要說這件事情我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論好下一張那死刑一字決不是重大政策可是藍白繼續裝睡覺不行甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟來\n\n07:45.580 --> 08:03.813\n在過去我們針對這個案子其實民進黨委員都努力的論述可是我們一直提醒這個案子有問題這個案子有問題那我剛剛已經提醒了公投出來的結果它是法律未接可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法未接\n\n08:04.674 --> 08:31.466\n就一個國中生的公民課上完以後他應該都會知道憲法跟法律未接是截然不同絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力對嗎我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情可是如果我們來看過往在台灣曾經實行過的公投還有44748號解釋關於同婚還有後續的很多人提出的反同公投其實已經示範過一次\n\n08:33.067 --> 09:01.460\n我認為藍白是忘記或者是不敢想起來我其實還是不知道但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽創造出非常多錯假的訊息這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾我也想要跟兩位討論我認為是不是要廢除死刑可以被認定是重大政策可是所謂的死刑以治絕事實上已經涉及到比較技術性比較細節的項目它不會是所謂重大性政策\n\n09:01.960 --> 09:17.389\n也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情又回到創製或者是覆決我都認為是有問題的我想要快速跟兩位請教你們怎麼看好啦我不要為難你們我自己往下說我剛已經說了下一張\n\n09:18.490 --> 09:33.523\n在禮拜二程序委員會我們看到這個提案了我認為藍白相關提案被中選會打臉我認為已經很丟臉了可是我想要問更荒謬的是現在還要提起行政訴訟我自己也是立法院的議員\n\n09:35.184 --> 10:03.838\n對於國人來說不管藍白綠我們都是立法委員假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了然後我們也輸了我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況喔我非常非常的擔心好下一張死刑這件事情喔我在上一次質詢的時候或者是之前在討論的時候我就說慎重非常的重要人命關天這件事情非常的重要\n\n10:06.045 --> 10:24.335\n藍白在很多方面我都已經不知道過去做十幾年親子教育的我要怎麼去教家長讓家長去教小孩今天是六四在中國今天沒有六四今天叫做五月三十五號沒有六四我再說一次今天在中國不會有六四是五月三十五號\n\n10:25.396 --> 10:51.493\n在台灣有一群人不敢面對的輕蔑人命罔顧人命不顧正義不顧公正很多事情到現在依然沒有說清楚講明白也沒有人對相關事情道歉在台灣就是白色恐怖就是戒嚴很多人的生命就此犧牲相關的協商會議當中我還記得有一次喔我想要談這個事情藍白就站起來走人了我猜想他們不敢想起來不敢面對\n\n10:52.794 --> 11:13.480\n而在今天談死性疑似覺這件事情上我想要最後用這張投影片要提醒大家人命關天這件事情非常非常的重要不管你站在哪一方我認為每一個人的性命都一樣的重要而慎重這件事情絕對是非常非常重要再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常的清楚我們並沒有往那個路上前去我們\n\n11:14.480 --> 11:28.786\n在憲法判決之後相關的案例還是有判處死刑不僅可以簽准可以執行我想台灣這件事情我們應該要繼續合理的討論以上好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.08,"end":15.93,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那先有請司法院還有法務部 謝謝麻煩複密還有部長"},{"start":21.038,"end":43.645,"text":"好 針對剛剛張祺凱委員的造謠我要公開的說在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著集結一場苗頭不對的司法對決正式開打第二張圖卡搭配就是520禮拜二早上10點台北地檢署站出來這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書你可能好 來我要回到我自己的議題上"},{"start":46.653,"end":73.504,"text":"在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水我們要一直說道理好來謝謝你們我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關議題喔從法啟公投辦公廳會到現在專題報告那既然要談死刑我們就來好好談一談第一個我想要問喔沒有廢死何來實質廢死我想問兩位就你們的法律專業我下這個標題有沒有問題"},{"start":75.936,"end":100.909,"text":"我認為既然台灣現在沒有廢死 何來所謂實質廢死法官在那個憲判八裡面主文就宣示了 就是死刑它並不違憲的是 好 我們再來往下看喔事實上在台灣從中華民國刑法立法以來一直到目前為止從來沒有一天有廢除死刑 請問委員長說的是對的嗎"},{"start":102.481,"end":118.933,"text":"是好那在113年宪判第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件核限也就是並沒有違憲而核限的條件意思就是我們要慎重因為死刑沒有try and error的空間以上的論述對不對"},{"start":119.833,"end":136.054,"text":"是如果是這個論述我們往下來看我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決我認為如果放在所謂憲判的主文裡面也就是說這個是憲法解釋的核心見解那憲判解釋出來我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度"},{"start":137.552,"end":162.99,"text":"是好沒有錯以上我就說這一年在立法院很辛苦我們得一直說道理那我們就來好好說以上我要請問法務部我的這個問題非常非常簡單其實答案也都已經公佈了法務部跟您做事時的確認在113年憲判8號的判決之後部長我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑你只要告訴我yes還是no"},{"start":163.49,"end":178.042,"text":"有在今年的1月16日有執行也就是說憲法法庭判決的結果並沒有影響到死刑的執行對不對法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑"},{"start":178.743,"end":193.22,"text":"以法執行好 以法執行沒錯我剛說以法執行好 謝謝部長來 下一張我想要繼續請問喔再跟你做另外一個事實的確認你們在今年年初做了一件事情叫做修正死刑執行規則"},{"start":194.722,"end":216.865,"text":"而且整個看起來方向是變得更為嚴格意思就是說原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟申請但是你們讓這個暫緩的申請跟執行變得更加嚴格對不對更加的一個合理因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後我們各界省也是很多"},{"start":218.553,"end":234.6,"text":"辦了四次的座談就是各界的一個意見也就是說你們的修正必須跟國人交代的是我們並沒有朝向寬鬆甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向來處理這是我解讀 對嗎"},{"start":235.58,"end":261.366,"text":"是更合理的一個方式也就是沒有變得更寬鬆喔沒有變得要廢死喔對嗎沒有要廢死好我再次強調嘛因為現在有很多輿論有很多論述我認為是在導向錯誤的論述所以在公開的質詢謝謝您剛的回覆也就是我們並沒有往這裡去走對嗎這個是更合理的因為主張那個整個也配合大家的一個廣大意見是能夠在執行時期更合理"},{"start":261.866,"end":283.32,"text":"好那下一張也就是說在憲法法庭判決結束之後我們來看這個新聞仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決我再強調一次這是在憲判法庭做出判決結果之後而且這是聯合報的媒體他自己就寫了釋憲後來首判死理由曝光"},{"start":284.281,"end":303.739,"text":"也就是說我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的也就是說現判後的死刑判決依然在進行而且從來沒有停止廢除死刑這件事情也就是我認為如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的那怎麼會有現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死您怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":305.541,"end":317.67,"text":"自從就是113年先判八字號判決出來之後呢事實上有兩件就是有馬國馬來西亞籍大女生她那個那個那個殺"},{"start":319.042,"end":341.488,"text":"那個這部分一二審都是判有罪那個二審是判有罪另外那個高雄地院那審理那惡靈那個無性的一個被告那這邊把鄰居夫妻殺死的這件也一審判死這都是在憲判八字判決之後的判決那可見那個這部分有實務上的一個兩個一個案例的一個實行的一個判決"},{"start":342.308,"end":367.203,"text":"謝謝部長說明的很清楚接下來我想請問司法院我們不要就個案來評判好不好我們我想請教司法院司法院你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後法院所做出的這個死刑判決是合理的嗎我不是說個案這樣判而是說我們本來就可以繼續做出死刑判決對不對是就是在那個憲判八底下所要求的這一些不管是程序或是實體的那個檢驗上面好"},{"start":367.643,"end":392.857,"text":"所以兩位講的都非常非常清楚我們來看下一個這個是上一頁我剛剛提出來那個案件聯合報報導這個新聞案件高雄地院的判決我還有附上判決字號大家有興趣可以自己去查在這個判決當中就明確的記載了憲法法庭判決的內容甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中認定死刑是核限的但是因為相關資料太多我就不再贅述我想要繼續請教兩位"},{"start":394.278,"end":422.674,"text":"既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是核限的而在憲法法庭判決過後 如同我們剛剛對過的資料法院可以繼續判處死刑而法務部依然可以簽准死刑還有相關的死刑規則 我們也都去調整了那怎麼會有繼續這樣的言論 叫做實質廢死我真的覺得很莫名其妙那我認為 扯出這樣的言論真的是法盲 理盲 邏輯盲 怎麼說我不要到下一頁 我想要問"},{"start":424.028,"end":432.58,"text":"之前藍白修法修了憲法訴訟法加高了門檻讓大法官人數不足那我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭"},{"start":436.052,"end":463.893,"text":"好你們微笑沒關係這是我個人的見解我認為如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情那我是不是也可以這樣說當然這是我的見解我就不讓你們回答我只是要說這件事情我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論好下一張那死刑一字決不是重大政策可是藍白繼續裝睡覺不行甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟來"},{"start":465.58,"end":483.813,"text":"在過去我們針對這個案子其實民進黨委員都努力的論述可是我們一直提醒這個案子有問題這個案子有問題那我剛剛已經提醒了公投出來的結果它是法律未接可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法未接"},{"start":484.674,"end":511.466,"text":"就一個國中生的公民課上完以後他應該都會知道憲法跟法律未接是截然不同絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力對嗎我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情可是如果我們來看過往在台灣曾經實行過的公投還有44748號解釋關於同婚還有後續的很多人提出的反同公投其實已經示範過一次"},{"start":513.067,"end":541.46,"text":"我認為藍白是忘記或者是不敢想起來我其實還是不知道但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽創造出非常多錯假的訊息這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾我也想要跟兩位討論我認為是不是要廢除死刑可以被認定是重大政策可是所謂的死刑以治絕事實上已經涉及到比較技術性比較細節的項目它不會是所謂重大性政策"},{"start":541.96,"end":557.389,"text":"也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情又回到創製或者是覆決我都認為是有問題的我想要快速跟兩位請教你們怎麼看好啦我不要為難你們我自己往下說我剛已經說了下一張"},{"start":558.49,"end":573.523,"text":"在禮拜二程序委員會我們看到這個提案了我認為藍白相關提案被中選會打臉我認為已經很丟臉了可是我想要問更荒謬的是現在還要提起行政訴訟我自己也是立法院的議員"},{"start":575.184,"end":603.838,"text":"對於國人來說不管藍白綠我們都是立法委員假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了然後我們也輸了我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況喔我非常非常的擔心好 下一張死刑這件事情喔我在上一次質詢的時候或者是之前在討論的時候我就說慎重非常的重要人命關天這件事情非常的重要"},{"start":606.045,"end":624.335,"text":"藍白在很多方面我都已經不知道過去做十幾年親子教育的我要怎麼去教家長讓家長去教小孩今天是六四在中國今天沒有六四今天叫做五月三十五號沒有六四我再說一次今天在中國不會有六四是五月三十五號"},{"start":625.396,"end":651.493,"text":"在台灣 有一群人不敢面對的輕蔑人命 罔顧人命不顧正義 不顧公正很多事情到現在 依然沒有說清楚 講明白也沒有人對相關事情道歉在台灣就是白色恐怖 就是戒嚴很多人的生命就此犧牲相關的協商會議當中 我還記得有一次喔我想要談這個事情 藍白就站起來走人了我猜想他們不敢想起來 不敢面對"},{"start":652.794,"end":673.48,"text":"而在今天談死性疑似覺這件事情上我想要最後用這張投影片要提醒大家人命關天這件事情非常非常的重要不管你站在哪一方我認為每一個人的性命都一樣的重要而慎重這件事情絕對是非常非常重要再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常的清楚我們並沒有往那個路上前去我們"},{"start":674.48,"end":688.786,"text":"在憲法判決之後相關的案例還是有判處死刑不僅可以簽准可以執行我想台灣這件事情我們應該要繼續合理的討論以上好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時44分）謝謝主席，先有請司法院及法務部，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩副秘還有部長。"],["陳委員培瑜：針對剛剛張啓楷委員的造謠，我要公開地說，在5月19號台灣民眾黨中央組織部的臉書上面寫著：集結令！一場苗頭不對的司法對決，正式開打！第二張圖卡上搭配的文字就是「520(二)早上10：00台北地檢署站出來！」這個是你們民眾黨自己的臉書，你可能……","我要回到我自己的議題上。在立法院這一年感覺很大的辛苦就是別人只要一直潑髒水，我們要一直說道理。謝謝你們，我非常好奇主席為什麼一直在排相關的議題，從發起公投、辦公聽會到現在專題報告，既然要談死刑，我們就來好好談一談。","第一個，我想要問的是，沒有廢死，何來實質廢死？我想問兩位，就你們的法律專業，我下的這個標題有沒有問題？我認為既然臺灣現在沒有廢死，何來所謂實質廢死！"],["王副秘書長梅英：大法官在憲判字第8號判決主文就宣示了死刑並不違憲。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們再來往下看。事實上，在臺灣，從中華民國刑法立法以來，一直到目前為止，從來沒有一天有廢除死刑，請問我以上說的是對的嗎？是？113年憲判字第8號判決也認定所謂的死刑是有條件合憲，也就是並沒有違憲，而合憲的條件，意思就是我們要慎重，因為死刑沒有try and error的空間，以上的論述對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：如果是這個論述，我們現在看到藍白還有意見的一致決，我認為如果放在憲判的主文裡面，也就是說，這個是憲法解釋的核心見解。憲判解釋出來，我們可不可以認同它為憲法的高度？好，沒有錯。","這一年在立法院很辛苦，我們得一直說道理，我們就來好好說。以下我要請問法務部，我的問題非常非常簡單，其實答案也都已經公布了。我跟法務部做事實確認，在113年憲判字第8號判決之後，部長，我們在今年年初是不是仍然有簽准並且執行死刑？你只要告訴我Yes還是No。"],["鄭部長銘謙：有，在今年1月16日有執行。"],["陳委員培瑜：也就是說，憲法法庭判決的結果，並沒有影響到死刑的執行，法務部依然可以合憲的執行死刑，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：依法執行。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯，我剛剛說依法執行，謝謝部長。","我想要再跟你做另外一個事實確認，你們在今年年初做了一件事情，叫做修正死刑執行規則，而且看起來整個方向是變得更嚴格，意思就是說，原本死刑有很多暫緩執行的條件跟聲請，但是你們讓暫緩聲請跟執行變得更嚴格，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：變更加合理，因為從109年執行死刑規則修訂之後，各界聲音很多，我們辦了4次座談跟各界的意見來對話。"],["陳委員培瑜：必須跟國人交代的是，你們的修正並沒有朝向寬鬆，甚至沒有朝向廢死的方向處理，這是我的解讀，對嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，這是更合理的方式。"],["陳委員培瑜：也就是沒有變得更寬鬆，沒有變得要廢死，對嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有要廢死。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我再次強調，因為現在有很多輿論跟論述，我認為是在導向錯誤的論述，所以公開質詢，也謝謝您剛剛的回復，我們並沒有往這個方向走，對嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是更合理，因為遵照相關法令也配合大家的想法廣納意見，能在執行死刑上更合理。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們來看這個新聞，在憲法法庭判決結束之後，仍然有地方法院做出死刑判決。我再強調一次，這是在憲判法庭作出判決結果之後，而且這是聯合報的媒體寫了「釋憲後首判死理由曝光」，我剛剛的論述跟您的回答是一致的，也就是說，憲判後的死刑判決依然在進行，而且從來沒有停止。有關廢除死刑這件事情，如果我們剛剛講的一切都是對的，怎麼會現在有人在炒作所謂實質廢死，您怎麼看這個事情？"],["鄭部長銘謙：自從113年憲判字第8號判決出來之後，事實上有兩件，包含勒殺馬來西亞籍女生，二審是判有罪；另外高雄地院審理惡鄰吳姓被告，他把鄰居夫妻殺死，這件一審也判死，這都是在憲判字第8號判決之後的判決，可見這部分有實務上兩個死刑判決的案例。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長說明的很清楚。接下來我想請問司法院，我們不要就個案來評判。請問司法院，你們認為在憲法法庭判決之後，法院所作出的死刑判決是合理的嗎？我不是說個案這樣判，而是我們本來就可以繼續作出死刑判決，對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是，在憲判字第8號下所要求的，不管是程序或是實體的檢驗上面。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，兩位講得都非常非常清楚。我們來看下一頁，這是我剛剛提出來的聯合報報導新聞案件，高雄地院的判決，我還有附上判決字號，大家有興趣可以自己去查，在這個判決當中，就明確地記載了憲法法庭判決的內容，甚至他提到憲法法庭判決的見解當中，認定死刑是合憲的，但是因為相關資料太多，我就不再贅述。","我想要請教兩位，既然憲法法庭判決認定死刑是合憲的，而在憲法法庭判決過後，如同我們剛剛對過的資料，法院可以繼續判處死刑，而法務部依然可以簽准死刑，還有我們也都去調整了相關的死刑規則，怎麼會繼續有實質廢死這樣的言論？我真的覺得很莫名其妙，我認為扯出這樣的言論，真的是法盲、理盲、邏輯盲，怎麼說？我想問，之前藍白修法，修了憲法訴訟法，加高了門檻，讓大法官人數不足，我可不可以說藍白是實質癱瘓憲法法庭？好，你們微笑沒關係，這是我個人的見解。我認為，如果我們今天在立法院要理性認真的討論這個事情，我是不是也可以這樣說？當然這是我的見解，我就不讓你們回答，我只是說這件事情，我們確實需要跟國人有更多的溝通跟討論。","死刑一致決不是重大政策，可是藍白繼續裝睡叫不醒，甚至在禮拜二的程序委員會當中，我們看到藍白提出行政訴訟。過去我們針對這個案子，其實民進黨委員都努力地論述，我們一直提醒這個案子有問題，我剛剛已經提醒了，公投出來的結果，它是法律位階，可是憲判法庭的判決是憲法位階。一個國中生的公民課上完以後，他應該都會知道憲法跟法律位階是截然不同，絕對是憲法的效力高於法律的效力，對嗎？我認為這是一般國中生都會知道的事情，可是如果我們來看臺灣在過往曾經實行過的公投，還有釋字第748號關於同婚的解釋，還有後續很多人提出的反同公投，其實已經示範過一次，我認為藍白是忘記了，或是不敢想起來，我不知道，但我們真的認為他們不聽就是不聽，創造出非常多錯、假的訊息，這件事情我認為非常非常的遺憾。","我想跟兩位討論，我認為是不是要廢除死刑，可以被認定是重大政策，可是所謂的死刑一致決，事實上已經涉及到比較技術性、比較細節的項目，它不會是所謂重大性政策，也就是公投如果我們要談的是這個事情，又回到創制或是複決，我認為都是有問題的。我想要快速跟兩位請教，你們怎麼看？好啦，我不要為難你們，我自己往下說，我剛剛已經說了，在禮拜二的程序委員會，我們看到這個提案，藍白相關提案被中選會打臉，我認為已經很丟臉了，可是更荒謬的是，現在還要提起行政訴訟，我自己也是立法院的一員，對於國人來說，不管藍、白、綠，我們都是立法委員，假設這個行政訴訟真的告下去了，然後我們也輸了，我們會怎麼丟自己立法院的臉？我其實現在還在想像那個可怕的境況，我非常非常擔心。","死刑這件事情，我上一次質詢的時候，或是之前在討論的時候，我就說慎重非常重要，人命關天這件事情非常重要，藍白很多荒謬事蹟，我都已經不知道過去做了十幾年親子教育的我，要怎麼去教家長，讓家長去教小孩。今天是六四，在中國今天沒有六四，今天叫做5月35號，沒有六四。我再說一次，今天在中國不會有六四，是5月35號，在臺灣有一群不敢面對的人，輕蔑人命、罔顧人命，不顧正義、不顧公正，很多事情到現在依然沒有說清楚、講明白，也沒有人對相關事情道歉，在臺灣就是白色恐怖，就是戒嚴，很多人的生命就此犧牲。相關的協商會議當中，我還記得有一次，我想要談這個事情，藍白就站起來走人了，我猜他們不敢想起來，不敢面對，今天談死刑一致決這件事，我想最後用這張投影片提醒大家，人命關天這件事情非常非常重要，不管你站在哪一方，我認為每一個人的性命都一樣重要，而慎重這件事絕對非常非常重要，再加上兩位剛剛給我的回答非常清楚，我們並沒有往那個路上前去，我們在憲法判決之後，相關案例還是有判處死刑，不僅可以簽准、可以執行，在臺灣這件事情，我們應該要繼續合理討論，以上。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-19","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","王育敏","張智倫","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","羅智強","林月琴","張啓楷","陳培瑜","王育敏","陳冠廷","林倩綺"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、衛生福利部、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「法官如何判死（死刑量刑準則）─ 包括被害影響陳述（訴訟參與人意見陳\n述）、教化可能性、復歸社會可能性、量刑前社會調查／鑑定，及現行司法實務如何將刑法第57\n條第7款至第10款、第59條納入量刑鑑定因子」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委\n員賴士葆等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等16人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條\n及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員張智倫等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一\n條及第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條\n文修正草案」案、( 七) 委員邱鎮軍等19 人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)委員王育敏等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百七十一條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員葉\n元之等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等21人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145701_00005"}}}