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Tahovecahe等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t審查委員黃建賓等16人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t審查委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「建築法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)\t審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「建築法第六十三條及第八十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、平均地權條例：\n審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【全案合併詢答；建築法第(十)案如經院會復議則不予審查，建築法第(十一)及(十二)案如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查】【6月4日及5日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-06-04","start_time":"2025-06-04T11:24:08+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-04T11:32:53+08:00","duration":525,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"162225","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162225","tool":"pyannote","id":"162225-pyannote"},"job_id":"hLJUqzQKLaNabqc1","queued_at":"2025-06-04 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\"end\": 513.476, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 513.476, \"end\": 513.917, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 513.917, \"end\": 513.937, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 513.937, \"end\": 513.957, \"score\": 0.075}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,656 --> 00:00:11,662\n好主席議會同仁請我們國土署署長讓部長休息一下吳市長有請委員好好署長市長今天我們大家在討論建築法的修正草案其實我們現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性\n\n2\n00:00:29,557 --> 00:00:44,623\n尤其我們台灣是在我們的地層帶上面所以我們光是本市在這邊的資料我們的全國有500戶的超過30年那超過30年在新北市遇到\n\n3\n00:00:47,135 --> 00:01:11,629\n前幾天海沙屋的問題包含山蟲海沙屋天花板都掉下來還傷了小朋友所以說我們針對海沙屋來做討論海沙屋為什麼整個整棟的海沙屋要重建會那麼慢速度搭配合度也不是那麼高\n\n4\n00:01:12,969 --> 00:01:36,521\n因為問題出在哪裡就是我們要找出這個問題其實海沙湖的問題要怎麼解決很多大地下已經都枯了但是你枯你說說大家要參加整個都建也好整個重建也好其實他們都樂意但是問題出在說他們在這段期間要怎麼來解決他們大的問題\n\n5\n00:01:41,773 --> 00:02:11,185\n所以他們大的問題,現在我們的中央政府在大力的推動我們的社宅我們社宅,是不是說在它那個附近,我們社宅第一件好了是不是說,他們在海沙屋要怎麼讓他們可以在他們的條件可以放寬畢竟他們去後,他們就搬回來了嘛所以這樣才可以去改觀說,他們要整個來參加整個都更也好\n\n6\n00:02:12,444 --> 00:02:26,718\n整個推動的速度我認為這樣才可以先去改觀他們大問題對於它的容積要怎麼提升因為海沙屋在全國都有光是我們整個港三重那些媒體在報導\n\n7\n00:02:28,103 --> 00:02:42,285\n包含在本市的轄區土層會被移動是海沙屋所以說海沙屋大家面臨著說要搬要參與都更搭住的問題\n\n8\n00:02:43,550 --> 00:03:07,057\n然後你農機要怎樣來提升讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額這是這裡可以改觀啦不然你說政府要推動他說全國我們真的都更的速度還是非常的慢啦所以說你要先提供這個問題我們要怎麼改觀請新北市請全國各縣市大家來開會就是要共同討論讓大家請出問題\n\n9\n00:03:11,260 --> 00:03:32,744\n可以謹慎說他們住在那裡他們的負擔的問題他們住在的問題我們要去想辦法來替他們解套這才有辦法來推動好像沒辦法替他們解套當然啊你說一棟裡面不是每一個人想法都一樣啊起碼都有幾個他們不同意不同意的問題在哪裡是不是這個部分是對的\n\n10\n00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:55,688\n感謝委員其實這個都更的過程中所謂的中紀委會的概念在過去都有提出但是跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念但是重點的處理說它是最終的時間點很難搭配在一起與我們社宅一組是組三檔\n\n11\n00:03:57,549 --> 00:04:14,164\n所以你要當地說到你決定要當時要拿的時候,那當時的租金不一定有大可以出租的社債我們社債也不可能扛在那裡等你所以這是事務上一個比較大的問題所以說我們剛才是一個中那個規定,當時它可以搬出來,要搬出來\n\n12\n00:04:18,268 --> 00:04:25,296\n這時間點跟社宅在出租的時間點,往往是對不起來的,我們不可能把社宅調過去空起來,放在那裡都沒有租,現在單一來租,我想這是無窮,這都不經過跟地方,這是無窮比較有一個困難,第二點就是說\n\n13\n00:04:36,549 --> 00:04:57,833\n這個租金的成本就是我處理,我沒有大小財,我處理多好租租金的成本,我們在這個都更的成本裡面就已經有納入了本來就已經同意這次有納入,它是成本那所以在這個成本上,一般來講就可以省一萬元對於這個健康來講,這應該就要省一萬元所以這是,當然過去的情形就是說常常去說就是,我差不多安省這個工廠是適當\n\n14\n00:05:06,215 --> 00:05:14,286\n結果我實際在操作的時候,有可能拖過,還要再延伸一些情緒,同時簽的是簽4年而已,4年過你要自己負擔,所以這是一個開始需要檢討的,第三就是海鯊魚的容積本來就不錯,\n\n15\n00:05:22,336 --> 00:05:46,475\n因為它本來我們的獎勵就是直接圓融1.3我就直接給你啦都不用再去整個做什麼所以就現實來講的話海鯊屋現在在過程中協調是中的過程中最困難的原因就是說很多海鯊屋它不是整棟都海鯊屋因為大家都知道你如果在我這家家裡海鯊屋我的天堂如果是海鯊屋的時候那個蠟就蠟到讓你用得沒那麼大\n\n16\n00:05:48,416 --> 00:06:08,072\n但是不是整棟都這樣,最怕有的沒中,有的中,有的沒中,他們的心態是比較不一樣所以這也是我們過去是不太適合的,最困難的就是兩個住戶的心情感受不一樣所以對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣的\n\n17\n00:06:08,812 --> 00:06:30,307\n所以這地方政府在協調規定是比較辛苦但是通過這個簡化的過程針對海沙屋我們現在已經做得很放寬因為申請元榮1.3它是直接就通過了所以我們要讓委員了解這個規定因為我們收到的就是因為不是全面性的海沙屋就是一萬戶一萬戶我們做很多沒中的\n\n18\n00:06:33,769 --> 00:06:49,716\n他們的意願都不高所以說整個都要推動都是有困難本身土生土生在我們海珊捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋也是一樣一樣面臨這個問題但是這個問題你總是要想辦法來改觀所以說你說像現在我們的老舊房子全國五百戶\n\n19\n00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:12,433\n你光是新北就佔了一百五十戶你說一百五十戶五百萬跟一百五十萬對一百五十萬戶你說這真的說因為過去公益性的這種的結構體絕對跟大樓絕對不一樣你如果說地震來這種的我們的公益性的這種的房子是非常非常所以說你剛才說速度要快你說用修繕的三年\n\n20\n00:07:24,804 --> 00:07:29,631\n我們去年又編了五十億但是稍微對海沙屋比較沒辦法\n\n21\n00:07:34,451 --> 00:07:50,522\n他們幫助不大啦這是一整棵啊所以我們要怎麼推動這個速度會比較快未來階段我們可以檢討這個損失這是應該我們地方政府要來檢討的不然你說如果事情再發生的時候再來檢討這樣已經太慢了是這我們會再來找地方政府電機開好的時候再來研究看他們針對這個海沙烏的這個看還有什麼新的建議可以來加速啦\n\n22\n00:08:02,270 --> 00:08:07,873\n這方面我們繼續來探討因為你過去的地方你沒有去設定說海鯊魚還是說麵糧要多一點的要切粗的在這個條件我們是不是把它納入進去讓它未來多重選擇\n\n23\n00:08:21,823 --> 00:08:33,957\n我瞭解我可能就是未來看電影政府來建議啦就是說有一些招租的條件裡面啦不過重點就是我們兩個的時間要對的對啦時間如果對不對也是我懷疑他就有那個機會嘛瞭解這我們來看電影政府再來討論一下好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4656\t11662\t好 主席 議會同仁 請我們國土署署長讓部長休息一下吳市長有請委員好好 署長市長今天我們大家在討論建築法的修正草案其實我們現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性\n29557\t44623\t尤其我們台灣是在我們的地層帶上面所以我們光是本市在這邊的資料我們的全國有500戶的超過30年那超過30年在新北市遇到\n47135\t71629\t前幾天海沙屋的問題包含山蟲海沙屋天花板都掉下來還傷了小朋友所以說我們針對海沙屋來做討論海沙屋為什麼整個整棟的海沙屋要重建會那麼慢速度搭配合度也不是那麼高\n72969\t96521\t因為問題出在哪裡 就是我們要找出這個問題其實海沙湖的問題要怎麼解決 很多大地下已經都枯了但是你枯 你說 說大家要參加整個都建也好 整個重建也好其實他們都樂意 但是問題出在說 他們在這段期間要怎麼來解決他們大的問題\n101773\t131185\t所以他們大的問題,現在我們的中央政府在大力的推動我們的社宅我們社宅,是不是說在它那個附近,我們社宅第一件好了是不是說,他們在海沙屋要怎麼讓他們可以在他們的條件可以放寬畢竟他們去後,他們就搬回來了嘛所以這樣才可以去改觀說,他們要整個來參加整個都更也好\n132444\t146718\t整個推動的速度我認為這樣才可以先去改觀他們大問題對於它的容積要怎麼提升因為海沙屋在全國都有光是我們整個港三重那些媒體在報導\n148103\t162285\t包含在本市的轄區土層會被移動是海沙屋所以說海沙屋大家面臨著說要搬 要參與都更搭住的問題\n163550\t187057\t然後你農機要怎樣來提升讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額這是這裡可以改觀啦不然你說政府要推動他說全國我們真的都更的速度還是非常的慢啦所以說你要先提供這個問題我們要怎麼改觀請新北市請全國各縣市大家來開會就是要共同討論讓大家請出問題\n191260\t212744\t可以謹慎說 他們住在那裡 他們的負擔的問題 他們住在的問題我們要去想辦法來替他們解套 這才有辦法來推動好像沒辦法替他們解套 當然啊 你說一棟裡面不是每一個人想法都一樣啊 起碼都有幾個他們不同意不同意的問題在哪裡 是不是這個部分是對的\n217120\t235688\t感謝委員 其實這個都更的過程中 所謂的中紀委會的概念在過去都有提出 但是跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念但是重點的處理說 它是最終的時間點很難搭配在一起 與我們社宅一組是組三檔\n237549\t254164\t所以你要當地說到你決定要當時要拿的時候,那當時的租金不一定有大可以出租的社債我們社債也不可能扛在那裡等你所以這是事務上一個比較大的問題所以說我們剛才是一個中那個規定,當時它可以搬出來,要搬出來\n258268\t265296\t這時間點跟社宅在出租的時間點,往往是對不起來的,我們不可能把社宅調過去空起來,放在那裡都沒有租,現在單一來租,我想這是無窮,這都不經過跟地方,這是無窮比較有一個困難,第二點就是說\n276549\t297833\t這個租金的成本就是我處理,我沒有大小財,我處理多好租租金的成本,我們在這個都更的成本裡面就已經有納入了本來就已經同意這次有納入,它是成本那所以在這個成本上,一般來講就可以省一萬元對於這個健康來講,這應該就要省一萬元所以這是,當然過去的情形就是說常常去說就是,我差不多安省這個工廠是適當\n306215\t314286\t結果我實際在操作的時候,有可能拖過,還要再延伸一些情緒,同時簽的是簽4年而已,4年過你要自己負擔,所以這是一個開始需要檢討的,第三就是海鯊魚的容積本來就不錯,\n322336\t346475\t因為它本來我們的獎勵就是直接圓融1.3我就直接給你啦都不用再去整個做什麼所以就現實來講的話海鯊屋現在在過程中協調是中的過程中最困難的原因就是說很多海鯊屋它不是整棟都海鯊屋因為大家都知道你如果在我這家家裡海鯊屋我的天堂如果是海鯊屋的時候那個蠟就蠟到讓你用得沒那麼大\n348416\t368072\t但是不是整棟都這樣,最怕有的沒中,有的中,有的沒中,他們的心態是比較不一樣所以這也是我們過去是不太適合的,最困難的就是兩個住戶的心情感受不一樣所以對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣的\n368812\t390307\t所以這地方政府在協調規定是比較辛苦但是通過這個簡化的過程針對海沙屋我們現在已經做得很放寬因為申請元榮1.3它是直接就通過了所以我們要讓委員了解這個規定因為我們收到的就是因為不是全面性的海沙屋就是一萬戶一萬戶我們做很多沒中的\n393769\t409716\t他們的意願都不高所以說整個都要推動都是有困難本身土生土生在我們海珊捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋也是一樣一樣面臨這個問題但是這個問題你總是要想辦法來改觀所以說你說像現在我們的老舊房子全國五百戶\n418360\t432433\t你光是新北就佔了一百五十戶你說一百五十戶五百萬跟一百五十萬對一百五十萬戶你說這真的說因為過去公益性的這種的結構體絕對跟大樓絕對不一樣你如果說地震來這種的我們的公益性的這種的房子是非常非常所以說你剛才說速度要快你說用修繕的三年\n444804\t449631\t我們去年又編了五十億但是稍微對海沙屋比較沒辦法\n454451\t470522\t他們幫助不大啦 這是一整棵啊所以我們要怎麼推動這個速度會比較快未來階段我們可以檢討這個損失這是應該我們地方政府要來檢討的不然你說如果事情再發生的時候再來檢討這樣已經太慢了是 這我們會再來找地方政府電機開好的時候再來研究看他們針對這個海沙烏的這個看還有什麼新的建議可以來加速啦\n482270\t487873\t這方面我們繼續來探討因為你過去的地方你沒有去設定說海鯊魚還是說麵糧要多一點的要切粗的在這個條件我們是不是把它納入進去讓它未來多重選擇\n501823\t513957\t我瞭解 我可能就是未來看電影政府來建議啦 就是說有一些招租的條件裡面啦不過重點就是我們兩個的時間要對的對啦 時間如果對不對也是我懷疑他就有那個機會嘛瞭解 這我們來看電影政府再來討論一下好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 主席 議會同仁 請我們國土署署長讓部長休息一下吳市長有請委員好好 署長市長今天我們大家在討論建築法的修正草案其實我們現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性\n尤其我們台灣是在我們的地層帶上面所以我們光是本市在這邊的資料我們的全國有500戶的超過30年那超過30年在新北市遇到\n前幾天海沙屋的問題包含山蟲海沙屋天花板都掉下來還傷了小朋友所以說我們針對海沙屋來做討論海沙屋為什麼整個整棟的海沙屋要重建會那麼慢速度搭配合度也不是那麼高\n因為問題出在哪裡 就是我們要找出這個問題其實海沙湖的問題要怎麼解決 很多大地下已經都枯了但是你枯 你說 說大家要參加整個都建也好 整個重建也好其實他們都樂意 但是問題出在說 他們在這段期間要怎麼來解決他們大的問題\n所以他們大的問題,現在我們的中央政府在大力的推動我們的社宅我們社宅,是不是說在它那個附近,我們社宅第一件好了是不是說,他們在海沙屋要怎麼讓他們可以在他們的條件可以放寬畢竟他們去後,他們就搬回來了嘛所以這樣才可以去改觀說,他們要整個來參加整個都更也好\n整個推動的速度我認為這樣才可以先去改觀他們大問題對於它的容積要怎麼提升因為海沙屋在全國都有光是我們整個港三重那些媒體在報導\n包含在本市的轄區土層會被移動是海沙屋所以說海沙屋大家面臨著說要搬 要參與都更搭住的問題\n然後你農機要怎樣來提升讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額這是這裡可以改觀啦不然你說政府要推動他說全國我們真的都更的速度還是非常的慢啦所以說你要先提供這個問題我們要怎麼改觀請新北市請全國各縣市大家來開會就是要共同討論讓大家請出問題\n可以謹慎說 他們住在那裡 他們的負擔的問題 他們住在的問題我們要去想辦法來替他們解套 這才有辦法來推動好像沒辦法替他們解套 當然啊 你說一棟裡面不是每一個人想法都一樣啊 起碼都有幾個他們不同意不同意的問題在哪裡 是不是這個部分是對的\n感謝委員 其實這個都更的過程中 所謂的中紀委會的概念在過去都有提出 但是跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念但是重點的處理說 它是最終的時間點很難搭配在一起 與我們社宅一組是組三檔\n所以你要當地說到你決定要當時要拿的時候,那當時的租金不一定有大可以出租的社債我們社債也不可能扛在那裡等你所以這是事務上一個比較大的問題所以說我們剛才是一個中那個規定,當時它可以搬出來,要搬出來\n這時間點跟社宅在出租的時間點,往往是對不起來的,我們不可能把社宅調過去空起來,放在那裡都沒有租,現在單一來租,我想這是無窮,這都不經過跟地方,這是無窮比較有一個困難,第二點就是說\n這個租金的成本就是我處理,我沒有大小財,我處理多好租租金的成本,我們在這個都更的成本裡面就已經有納入了本來就已經同意這次有納入,它是成本那所以在這個成本上,一般來講就可以省一萬元對於這個健康來講,這應該就要省一萬元所以這是,當然過去的情形就是說常常去說就是,我差不多安省這個工廠是適當\n結果我實際在操作的時候,有可能拖過,還要再延伸一些情緒,同時簽的是簽4年而已,4年過你要自己負擔,所以這是一個開始需要檢討的,第三就是海鯊魚的容積本來就不錯,\n因為它本來我們的獎勵就是直接圓融1.3我就直接給你啦都不用再去整個做什麼所以就現實來講的話海鯊屋現在在過程中協調是中的過程中最困難的原因就是說很多海鯊屋它不是整棟都海鯊屋因為大家都知道你如果在我這家家裡海鯊屋我的天堂如果是海鯊屋的時候那個蠟就蠟到讓你用得沒那麼大\n但是不是整棟都這樣,最怕有的沒中,有的中,有的沒中,他們的心態是比較不一樣所以這也是我們過去是不太適合的,最困難的就是兩個住戶的心情感受不一樣所以對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣的\n所以這地方政府在協調規定是比較辛苦但是通過這個簡化的過程針對海沙屋我們現在已經做得很放寬因為申請元榮1.3它是直接就通過了所以我們要讓委員了解這個規定因為我們收到的就是因為不是全面性的海沙屋就是一萬戶一萬戶我們做很多沒中的\n他們的意願都不高所以說整個都要推動都是有困難本身土生土生在我們海珊捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋也是一樣一樣面臨這個問題但是這個問題你總是要想辦法來改觀所以說你說像現在我們的老舊房子全國五百戶\n你光是新北就佔了一百五十戶你說一百五十戶五百萬跟一百五十萬對一百五十萬戶你說這真的說因為過去公益性的這種的結構體絕對跟大樓絕對不一樣你如果說地震來這種的我們的公益性的這種的房子是非常非常所以說你剛才說速度要快你說用修繕的三年\n我們去年又編了五十億但是稍微對海沙屋比較沒辦法\n他們幫助不大啦 這是一整棵啊所以我們要怎麼推動這個速度會比較快未來階段我們可以檢討這個損失這是應該我們地方政府要來檢討的不然你說如果事情再發生的時候再來檢討這樣已經太慢了是 這我們會再來找地方政府電機開好的時候再來研究看他們針對這個海沙烏的這個看還有什麼新的建議可以來加速啦\n這方面我們繼續來探討因為你過去的地方你沒有去設定說海鯊魚還是說麵糧要多一點的要切粗的在這個條件我們是不是把它納入進去讓它未來多重選擇\n我瞭解 我可能就是未來看電影政府來建議啦 就是說有一些招租的條件裡面啦不過重點就是我們兩個的時間要對的對啦 時間如果對不對也是我懷疑他就有那個機會嘛瞭解 這我們來看電影政府再來討論一下好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.656 --> 00:11.662\n好主席議會同仁請我們國土署署長讓部長休息一下吳市長有請委員好好署長市長今天我們大家在討論建築法的修正草案其實我們現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性\n\n00:29.557 --> 00:44.623\n尤其我們台灣是在我們的地層帶上面所以我們光是本市在這邊的資料我們的全國有500戶的超過30年那超過30年在新北市遇到\n\n00:47.135 --> 01:11.629\n前幾天海沙屋的問題包含山蟲海沙屋天花板都掉下來還傷了小朋友所以說我們針對海沙屋來做討論海沙屋為什麼整個整棟的海沙屋要重建會那麼慢速度搭配合度也不是那麼高\n\n01:12.969 --> 01:36.521\n因為問題出在哪裡就是我們要找出這個問題其實海沙湖的問題要怎麼解決很多大地下已經都枯了但是你枯你說說大家要參加整個都建也好整個重建也好其實他們都樂意但是問題出在說他們在這段期間要怎麼來解決他們大的問題\n\n01:41.773 --> 02:11.185\n所以他們大的問題,現在我們的中央政府在大力的推動我們的社宅我們社宅,是不是說在它那個附近,我們社宅第一件好了是不是說,他們在海沙屋要怎麼讓他們可以在他們的條件可以放寬畢竟他們去後,他們就搬回來了嘛所以這樣才可以去改觀說,他們要整個來參加整個都更也好\n\n02:12.444 --> 02:26.718\n整個推動的速度我認為這樣才可以先去改觀他們大問題對於它的容積要怎麼提升因為海沙屋在全國都有光是我們整個港三重那些媒體在報導\n\n02:28.103 --> 02:42.285\n包含在本市的轄區土層會被移動是海沙屋所以說海沙屋大家面臨著說要搬要參與都更搭住的問題\n\n02:43.550 --> 03:07.057\n然後你農機要怎樣來提升讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額這是這裡可以改觀啦不然你說政府要推動他說全國我們真的都更的速度還是非常的慢啦所以說你要先提供這個問題我們要怎麼改觀請新北市請全國各縣市大家來開會就是要共同討論讓大家請出問題\n\n03:11.260 --> 03:32.744\n可以謹慎說他們住在那裡他們的負擔的問題他們住在的問題我們要去想辦法來替他們解套這才有辦法來推動好像沒辦法替他們解套當然啊你說一棟裡面不是每一個人想法都一樣啊起碼都有幾個他們不同意不同意的問題在哪裡是不是這個部分是對的\n\n03:37.120 --> 03:55.688\n感謝委員其實這個都更的過程中所謂的中紀委會的概念在過去都有提出但是跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念但是重點的處理說它是最終的時間點很難搭配在一起與我們社宅一組是組三檔\n\n03:57.549 --> 04:14.164\n所以你要當地說到你決定要當時要拿的時候,那當時的租金不一定有大可以出租的社債我們社債也不可能扛在那裡等你所以這是事務上一個比較大的問題所以說我們剛才是一個中那個規定,當時它可以搬出來,要搬出來\n\n04:18.268 --> 04:25.296\n這時間點跟社宅在出租的時間點,往往是對不起來的,我們不可能把社宅調過去空起來,放在那裡都沒有租,現在單一來租,我想這是無窮,這都不經過跟地方,這是無窮比較有一個困難,第二點就是說\n\n04:36.549 --> 04:57.833\n這個租金的成本就是我處理,我沒有大小財,我處理多好租租金的成本,我們在這個都更的成本裡面就已經有納入了本來就已經同意這次有納入,它是成本那所以在這個成本上,一般來講就可以省一萬元對於這個健康來講,這應該就要省一萬元所以這是,當然過去的情形就是說常常去說就是,我差不多安省這個工廠是適當\n\n05:06.215 --> 05:14.286\n結果我實際在操作的時候,有可能拖過,還要再延伸一些情緒,同時簽的是簽4年而已,4年過你要自己負擔,所以這是一個開始需要檢討的,第三就是海鯊魚的容積本來就不錯,\n\n05:22.336 --> 05:46.475\n因為它本來我們的獎勵就是直接圓融1.3我就直接給你啦都不用再去整個做什麼所以就現實來講的話海鯊屋現在在過程中協調是中的過程中最困難的原因就是說很多海鯊屋它不是整棟都海鯊屋因為大家都知道你如果在我這家家裡海鯊屋我的天堂如果是海鯊屋的時候那個蠟就蠟到讓你用得沒那麼大\n\n05:48.416 --> 06:08.072\n但是不是整棟都這樣,最怕有的沒中,有的中,有的沒中,他們的心態是比較不一樣所以這也是我們過去是不太適合的,最困難的就是兩個住戶的心情感受不一樣所以對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣的\n\n06:08.812 --> 06:30.307\n所以這地方政府在協調規定是比較辛苦但是通過這個簡化的過程針對海沙屋我們現在已經做得很放寬因為申請元榮1.3它是直接就通過了所以我們要讓委員了解這個規定因為我們收到的就是因為不是全面性的海沙屋就是一萬戶一萬戶我們做很多沒中的\n\n06:33.769 --> 06:49.716\n他們的意願都不高所以說整個都要推動都是有困難本身土生土生在我們海珊捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋也是一樣一樣面臨這個問題但是這個問題你總是要想辦法來改觀所以說你說像現在我們的老舊房子全國五百戶\n\n06:58.360 --> 07:12.433\n你光是新北就佔了一百五十戶你說一百五十戶五百萬跟一百五十萬對一百五十萬戶你說這真的說因為過去公益性的這種的結構體絕對跟大樓絕對不一樣你如果說地震來這種的我們的公益性的這種的房子是非常非常所以說你剛才說速度要快你說用修繕的三年\n\n07:24.804 --> 07:29.631\n我們去年又編了五十億但是稍微對海沙屋比較沒辦法\n\n07:34.451 --> 07:50.522\n他們幫助不大啦這是一整棵啊所以我們要怎麼推動這個速度會比較快未來階段我們可以檢討這個損失這是應該我們地方政府要來檢討的不然你說如果事情再發生的時候再來檢討這樣已經太慢了是這我們會再來找地方政府電機開好的時候再來研究看他們針對這個海沙烏的這個看還有什麼新的建議可以來加速啦\n\n08:02.270 --> 08:07.873\n這方面我們繼續來探討因為你過去的地方你沒有去設定說海鯊魚還是說麵糧要多一點的要切粗的在這個條件我們是不是把它納入進去讓它未來多重選擇\n\n08:21.823 --> 08:33.957\n我瞭解我可能就是未來看電影政府來建議啦就是說有一些招租的條件裡面啦不過重點就是我們兩個的時間要對的對啦時間如果對不對也是我懷疑他就有那個機會嘛瞭解這我們來看電影政府再來討論一下好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.656,"end":11.662,"text":"好 主席 議會同仁 請我們國土署署長讓部長休息一下吳市長有請委員好好 署長市長今天我們大家在討論建築法的修正草案其實我們現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性"},{"start":29.557,"end":44.623,"text":"尤其我們台灣是在我們的地層帶上面所以我們光是本市在這邊的資料我們的全國有500戶的超過30年那超過30年在新北市遇到"},{"start":47.135,"end":71.629,"text":"前幾天海沙屋的問題包含山蟲海沙屋天花板都掉下來還傷了小朋友所以說我們針對海沙屋來做討論海沙屋為什麼整個整棟的海沙屋要重建會那麼慢速度搭配合度也不是那麼高"},{"start":72.969,"end":96.521,"text":"因為問題出在哪裡 就是我們要找出這個問題其實海沙湖的問題要怎麼解決 很多大地下已經都枯了但是你枯 你說 說大家要參加整個都建也好 整個重建也好其實他們都樂意 但是問題出在說 他們在這段期間要怎麼來解決他們大的問題"},{"start":101.773,"end":131.185,"text":"所以他們大的問題,現在我們的中央政府在大力的推動我們的社宅我們社宅,是不是說在它那個附近,我們社宅第一件好了是不是說,他們在海沙屋要怎麼讓他們可以在他們的條件可以放寬畢竟他們去後,他們就搬回來了嘛所以這樣才可以去改觀說,他們要整個來參加整個都更也好"},{"start":132.444,"end":146.718,"text":"整個推動的速度我認為這樣才可以先去改觀他們大問題對於它的容積要怎麼提升因為海沙屋在全國都有光是我們整個港三重那些媒體在報導"},{"start":148.103,"end":162.285,"text":"包含在本市的轄區土層會被移動是海沙屋所以說海沙屋大家面臨著說要搬 要參與都更搭住的問題"},{"start":163.55,"end":187.057,"text":"然後你農機要怎樣來提升讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額這是這裡可以改觀啦不然你說政府要推動他說全國我們真的都更的速度還是非常的慢啦所以說你要先提供這個問題我們要怎麼改觀請新北市請全國各縣市大家來開會就是要共同討論讓大家請出問題"},{"start":191.26,"end":212.744,"text":"可以謹慎說 他們住在那裡 他們的負擔的問題 他們住在的問題我們要去想辦法來替他們解套 這才有辦法來推動好像沒辦法替他們解套 當然啊 你說一棟裡面不是每一個人想法都一樣啊 起碼都有幾個他們不同意不同意的問題在哪裡 是不是這個部分是對的"},{"start":217.12,"end":235.688,"text":"感謝委員 其實這個都更的過程中 所謂的中紀委會的概念在過去都有提出 但是跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念但是重點的處理說 它是最終的時間點很難搭配在一起 與我們社宅一組是組三檔"},{"start":237.549,"end":254.164,"text":"所以你要當地說到你決定要當時要拿的時候,那當時的租金不一定有大可以出租的社債我們社債也不可能扛在那裡等你所以這是事務上一個比較大的問題所以說我們剛才是一個中那個規定,當時它可以搬出來,要搬出來"},{"start":258.268,"end":265.296,"text":"這時間點跟社宅在出租的時間點,往往是對不起來的,我們不可能把社宅調過去空起來,放在那裡都沒有租,現在單一來租,我想這是無窮,這都不經過跟地方,這是無窮比較有一個困難,第二點就是說"},{"start":276.549,"end":297.833,"text":"這個租金的成本就是我處理,我沒有大小財,我處理多好租租金的成本,我們在這個都更的成本裡面就已經有納入了本來就已經同意這次有納入,它是成本那所以在這個成本上,一般來講就可以省一萬元對於這個健康來講,這應該就要省一萬元所以這是,當然過去的情形就是說常常去說就是,我差不多安省這個工廠是適當"},{"start":306.215,"end":314.286,"text":"結果我實際在操作的時候,有可能拖過,還要再延伸一些情緒,同時簽的是簽4年而已,4年過你要自己負擔,所以這是一個開始需要檢討的,第三就是海鯊魚的容積本來就不錯,"},{"start":322.336,"end":346.475,"text":"因為它本來我們的獎勵就是直接圓融1.3我就直接給你啦都不用再去整個做什麼所以就現實來講的話海鯊屋現在在過程中協調是中的過程中最困難的原因就是說很多海鯊屋它不是整棟都海鯊屋因為大家都知道你如果在我這家家裡海鯊屋我的天堂如果是海鯊屋的時候那個蠟就蠟到讓你用得沒那麼大"},{"start":348.416,"end":368.072,"text":"但是不是整棟都這樣,最怕有的沒中,有的中,有的沒中,他們的心態是比較不一樣所以這也是我們過去是不太適合的,最困難的就是兩個住戶的心情感受不一樣所以對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣的"},{"start":368.812,"end":390.307,"text":"所以這地方政府在協調規定是比較辛苦但是通過這個簡化的過程針對海沙屋我們現在已經做得很放寬因為申請元榮1.3它是直接就通過了所以我們要讓委員了解這個規定因為我們收到的就是因為不是全面性的海沙屋就是一萬戶一萬戶我們做很多沒中的"},{"start":393.769,"end":409.716,"text":"他們的意願都不高所以說整個都要推動都是有困難本身土生土生在我們海珊捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋也是一樣一樣面臨這個問題但是這個問題你總是要想辦法來改觀所以說你說像現在我們的老舊房子全國五百戶"},{"start":418.36,"end":432.433,"text":"你光是新北就佔了一百五十戶你說一百五十戶五百萬跟一百五十萬對一百五十萬戶你說這真的說因為過去公益性的這種的結構體絕對跟大樓絕對不一樣你如果說地震來這種的我們的公益性的這種的房子是非常非常所以說你剛才說速度要快你說用修繕的三年"},{"start":444.804,"end":449.631,"text":"我們去年又編了五十億但是稍微對海沙屋比較沒辦法"},{"start":454.451,"end":470.522,"text":"他們幫助不大啦 這是一整棵啊所以我們要怎麼推動這個速度會比較快未來階段我們可以檢討這個損失這是應該我們地方政府要來檢討的不然你說如果事情再發生的時候再來檢討這樣已經太慢了是 這我們會再來找地方政府電機開好的時候再來研究看他們針對這個海沙烏的這個看還有什麼新的建議可以來加速啦"},{"start":482.27,"end":487.873,"text":"這方面我們繼續來探討因為你過去的地方你沒有去設定說海鯊魚還是說麵糧要多一點的要切粗的在這個條件我們是不是把它納入進去讓它未來多重選擇"},{"start":501.823,"end":513.957,"text":"我瞭解 我可能就是未來看電影政府來建議啦 就是說有一些招租的條件裡面啦不過重點就是我們兩個的時間要對的對啦 時間如果對不對也是我懷疑他就有那個機會嘛瞭解 這我們來看電影政府再來討論一下好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":703,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（11時24分）主席、與會同仁。請國土署署長，讓部長休息一下。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭）：有請吳署長。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：署長，今天大家在討論建築法的修正草案，其實現在大家關心的就是整個建築結構的安全性，尤其臺灣在地震帶上面，光是本席這邊的資料，全國有500戶超過30年。前幾天新北市遇到海砂屋的問題，包含三重的海砂屋天花板都掉下來，還砸傷了小朋友，所以我們針對海砂屋來做討論，為什麼整棟的海砂屋重建會那麼慢？速度及配合度也不是那麼高，問題出在哪裡？我們要找出源頭。","海砂屋的問題要怎麼解決？很多人住在那裡已經很久，雖然很久了，但突然要大家參加都更也好、重建也好，其實他們都樂意，但是問題出在這段期間要怎麼解決他們住的問題，對於他們住的問題，現在中央政府大力推動社宅：第一，是不是在那個附近將社宅建好，對海砂屋住戶可以放寬申請條件？畢竟等重建後，他們就會搬回去，才能加速他們參加都更整體推動的速度，我認為這樣才能先解決他們住的問題。第二，它的容積要怎麼提升？因為海砂屋在全國都有，光是前幾天媒體報導三重的事件，包含在本席轄區的土城也有一棟是海砂屋，大家面臨海砂屋要搬遷、要參與都更都會有住的問題，而容積要怎樣來提升，讓他們不用再去負擔那麼龐大的金額，這件事情才能被解決，不然你說政府要推動，全國都更的速度還是非常地慢。所以署長，你要針對這個問題，你們要怎麼解決？請新北市及全國各縣市大家來開會，就是要共同討論，讓大家找出問題，可以減輕海砂屋住戶他們負擔的問題、他們遇到的問題，我們要想辦法替他們解套，這才有辦法來推動，如果你沒辦法替他們解套，當然在一棟大樓裡面，不是每個人想法都一樣，起碼都會有幾戶他們不同意，但不同意的問題出在哪裡，是不是針對這個部分請署長說明？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，其實都更過程中有所謂中繼屋的概念，過去大概都有提出，跟社宅搭配是一個不錯的理念，但是重點就出在實際上的時間點很難搭配在一起，因為我們社宅一承租是租三年，等到你決定什麼時候要拆除重建，那時候周圍不一定有剛好要出租的社宅，社宅也不可能空在那裡等他們，這是實務上一個比較大的問題，就是在都更過程中，什麼時候他可以搬出來，這個時間點跟社宅出租的時間點往往是對不上的，我們不可能把社宅故意空出來、放在那裡都不出租，等他們來承租，這和地方政府都有經過討論，實務上是比較有困難的。","第二點，關於租金的成本，假如我搬出去、沒有住在社宅，而是去外面承租，我們原本在都更成本裡面就已經納入租金的成本，本來就已經同意納入，它是成本，所以在成本上本來就可以算進去，對於建商來講，這應該就要算進去，這是第二點。當然過去的爭論常常是預計工程差不多是四年，結果實際操作有可能會超過，中間再衍生一些爭議，說當初是簽四年而已，等四年過後，你要自己負擔，這是中間一個確實需要檢討的地方。","第三點，因為海砂屋的容積本來就不錯，本來我們的獎勵就是直接原容積的1.3倍，我就直接給你了，都不用再增加做什麼，就現實來講的話，海砂屋現在在過程中，協調是中間過程裡最困難的，原因就是很多海砂屋不是整棟都海砂屋，大家都知道家裡天花板如果是海砂屋時，剝落的天花板會讓你真的無法居住，但不是整棟都這樣，最怕的就是有的不會剝落、有的會剝落，兩者心態就會比較不同，這也是我們過去實務上遇到操作比較困難的地方，兩種住戶的心情、感受不一樣，對於都更的急迫性有時候是不太一樣，所以地方政府在協調過程中，老實說是比較辛苦，但是中間簡化的過程，針對海砂屋，老實說，現在已經很放寬了，因為申請原容積1.3倍是直接就通過了，也讓委員了解這個過程。"],["吳委員琪銘：我們所遇到的因為不是全面性的海砂屋，只有一半住戶。"],["吳署長欣修：對、對！"],["吳委員琪銘：只有一半住戶卻造成沒有海砂屋的住戶意願都不高，所以整個推動都會有困難。"],["吳署長欣修：是啦。"],["吳委員琪銘：本席轄區的土城在海山捷運站出來也有一棟海砂屋，也是一樣面臨這個問題，但你總是要想辦法來解決這個問題，像現在我們的老舊房舍全國500戶，光是新北就占了150戶，你說150戶……"],["吳署長欣修：500萬跟150萬。"],["吳委員琪銘：對！150萬戶。因為過去公寓型的這種結構體跟大樓絕對是不一樣，如果發生地震，這種公寓型的房子是非常危險，所以你說都更速度要快，我們去年又編了50億，但是修繕的……"],["吳署長欣修：修繕對海砂屋比較沒辦法解決。"],["吳委員琪銘：對啊！對結構幫助不大啦！這你是專業啊！"],["吳署長欣修：結構沒辦法處理啦！是。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以我們要怎麼推動讓速度比較快，對於未來地震時，我們可以減少損失，這應該是中央政府要檢討的，不然等到事情再發生的時候再來檢討，這就已經太慢了。"],["吳署長欣修：是，我們找地方政府在定期開會的時候再來研究，看他們針對海砂屋還有什麼新的建議，可以來加速推動。"],["吳委員琪銘：對啦！"],["吳署長欣修：這個部分，我們再繼續探討。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為過去社宅沒有去設定像海砂屋或面臨都更要找房子的住戶，這些條件是不是把它納入，讓他們未來可以多重選擇？"],["吳署長欣修：是，我了解。可能就是未來跟地方政府建議納入在招租的條件裡面，不過重點就是兩個時間要對得到，時間如果對不到也是沒辦法。"],["吳委員琪銘：是啦！是啦！如果能這樣，自然他就有機會。"],["吳署長欣修：了解，我們跟地方政府再來討論一下。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘委員。","報告委員會，我們現在處理臨時提案，請宣讀。","有鑑於過去原鄉地區土地與建築相關法規規劃與執行方式過於粗糙與武斷，致使當地族人之居住安全與空間使用權益長期受損，亟需改善。","《建築法》第99條之1雖明定：「都市計畫以外地區或偏遠地區建築物得予簡化管理」，並授權地方政府擬訂簡化管理辦法報請內政部核定。惟實務上，部分縣市迄未訂定辦法，或僅形式應對，難以實質回應原鄉實際需要。","為加速解決原鄉長期以來的居住問題，爰請貴部於一個月內研議辦理下列事項，俾利全面提升地方政府簡化制度規劃與執行效能：","(一)儘速訂定通案性指導原則，協助並督促各縣市依法訂定簡化管理辦法，並提供必要之技術指導。","(二)整理現行各地建築簡化辦法內容，進行彙整對照，作為地方參照依據，亦可據以彈性因應原鄉特殊情況。","提案人：高金素梅　王美惠　　許宇甄　　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　　麥玉珍　　李柏毅　　黃　捷　　吳琪銘　　徐欣瑩　　牛煦庭"],["主席：請問委員會，對於臨時提案的內容有無異議？（無）沒有，我們照案通過，謝謝。等一下，不好意思。"],["劉部長世芳：對啦！我想委員不會反對啦，因為好多部會，所以內政部不要寫貴部，再來就是縣市要寫縣市政府，這樣比較明確，沒有其他的，因為文字已經修正，委員看過了。"],["主席：我們把……第三段對不對？OK，我說明一下，第二段第三行，「部分縣市」把它加兩個字改成「部分縣市政府」；第三段第一行「貴部」改成「內政部」；第三段第三行後面，督促各縣市一樣加「縣市政府」；然後第三段倒數第二行一樣，「作為地方政府參照依據」，為以上文字修正，請問委員會有沒有問題？（無）好，文字修正通過，謝謝。","報告委員會，我們繼續進行詢答。","下一位我們請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","下一位我們請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-24","speakers":["牛煦庭","陳菁徽","顏寬恒","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","丁學忠"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、建築法：(一)審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「建築法第九十一條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員顏寬恒等21 人擬具「建築法第七十三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 三) 審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人擬具「建築法第九十九條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃建賓等16\n人擬具「建築法第五十六條、第五十八條及第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員徐巧芯\n等22人擬具「建築法第八十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「建築法第\n九十七條條文修正草案」案、( 七) 審查委員顏寬恒等17 人擬具「建築法第九十七條條文修正草\n案」案、(八)審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「建築法第五十四條條文修正草案」案、(九)審查委員\n陳超明等18人擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)審查台灣\n民眾黨黨團擬具「建築法第七十七條之二及第九十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二、平均地權條\n例：審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「平均地權條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145601_00005"}}}