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{\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 394.677, \"end\": 394.697, \"score\": 0.034}]}, {\"start\": 396.057, \"end\": 416.401, \"text\": \"這個應該對外講清楚 基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題 對水位沒有問題 讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決 你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好 部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署 國有財產署部長你注意一下 你在旁邊聽一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 396.057, \"end\": 396.457, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 396.457, \"end\": 396.657, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 396.657, \"end\": 397.037, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 397.037, \"end\": 397.237, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 397.237, \"end\": 397.417, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 397.417, \"end\": 397.677, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 397.677, \"end\": 397.857, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 397.857, \"end\": 397.998, \"score\": 0.853}, 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{\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 638.768, \"end\": 638.888, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 638.888, \"end\": 639.049, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 639.049, \"end\": 639.069, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,589 --> 00:00:29,258\n請陳主席長跟財政部莊部長現在已經11點50所以可以發片當中等到公共委員結束以後我們休息四分鐘先請主席長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣\n\n2\n00:00:31,243 --> 00:00:48,651\n就是要符合規定你認為現在有符合規定嗎?你是說一般性補助款?對因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:49,997 --> 00:01:13,635\n我看不太出來有符合咧其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解\n\n4\n00:01:14,535 --> 00:01:39,097\n動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解\n\n5\n00:01:41,241 --> 00:02:07,236\n數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這一個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎可行嗎\n\n6\n00:02:08,922 --> 00:02:37,837\n對這個要看溯源委員會對那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充法被刪除的事實就要跟所有各縣市政府講清楚啦\n\n7\n00:02:38,417 --> 00:03:01,870\n不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待我覺得第一點要講第二點呢你在三個過程當中以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛對不對所以說你還要依照這個財務能力自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27%\n\n8\n00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:27,331\n沒道理嘛這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說我很公平我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差你刪一樣多這不公平嘛老實說已經不得不刪我當然我們要面對你也是不得不對不對\n\n9\n00:03:27,951 --> 00:03:46,935\n誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊\n\n10\n00:03:50,677 --> 00:03:58,213\n主席長我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子\n\n11\n00:04:00,051 --> 00:04:21,084\n你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長\n\n12\n00:04:22,245 --> 00:04:42,792\n部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎\n\n13\n00:04:50,122 --> 00:05:16,508\n軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合\n\n14\n00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:27,431\n那有什麼方法?這是道德宣示嘛不是,那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候,這部分都會納入的一個事件\n\n15\n00:05:28,129 --> 00:05:45,198\n我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛\n\n16\n00:05:49,901 --> 00:06:12,471\n那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22%4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是黃氏降溫啦那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給手購族給這個青青安帶的人啊依照你們\n\n17\n00:06:13,231 --> 00:06:34,697\n各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有很高的你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦\n\n18\n00:06:36,057 --> 00:06:56,401\n這個應該對外講清楚基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題對水位沒有問題讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署國有財產署部長你注意一下你在旁邊聽一下\n\n19\n00:07:05,046 --> 00:07:22,126\n那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少\n\n20\n00:07:23,158 --> 00:07:47,014\n你有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要\n\n21\n00:07:48,775 --> 00:08:04,252\n要來撥用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛\n\n22\n00:08:05,133 --> 00:08:22,668\n如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地\n\n23\n00:08:23,068 --> 00:08:38,494\n對都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入好不好\n\n24\n00:08:39,274 --> 00:09:01,193\n報告其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好麻煩署長那另外因為那個我再請一下那個主計長上來一下好不好主計長\n\n25\n00:09:05,472 --> 00:09:28,526\n主長現階段我說實在的啦地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都333砍砍砍啦但是地方的需求還是不斷啦是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別呢這個公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強啊\n\n26\n00:09:29,426 --> 00:09:44,802\n那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億啊\n\n27\n00:09:46,944 --> 00:10:14,042\n那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛財發法接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分\n\n28\n00:10:17,325 --> 00:10:39,069\n聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核因為沒辦法核必須要等到收養也就是因為裁判法的問題好謝謝因為這個問題一直卡在這邊這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞胡搞瞎搞所造成的結果我們現在需要休息十分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t29258\t請陳主席長跟財政部莊部長現在已經11點50所以可以發片當中等到公共委員結束以後我們休息四分鐘先請主席長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣\n31243\t48651\t就是要符合規定你認為現在有符合規定嗎?你是說一般性補助款?對因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎?\n49997\t73635\t我看不太出來有符合咧其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解\n74535\t99097\t動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解\n101241\t127236\t數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這一個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎 可行嗎\n128922\t157837\t對 這個要看溯源委員會對 那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源 要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充法被刪除的事實就要跟所有各縣市政府講清楚啦\n158417\t181870\t不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待 我覺得第一點要講第二點呢 你在三個過程當中 以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則 它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛 對不對所以說你還要依照這個財務能力 自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說 自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27%\n184380\t207331\t沒道理嘛 這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說我很公平 我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好 你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差 你刪一樣多 這不公平嘛老實說 已經不得不刪 我當然我們要面對你也是不得不 對不對\n207951\t226935\t誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊\n230677\t238213\t主席長我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子\n240051\t261084\t你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長\n262245\t282792\t部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎\n290122\t316508\t軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合\n317199\t327431\t那有什麼方法?這是道德宣示嘛不是,那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候,這部分都會納入的一個事件\n328129\t345198\t我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛\n349901\t372471\t那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22%4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是黃氏降溫啦那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給手購族給這個青青安帶的人啊依照你們\n373231\t394697\t各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有很高的你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦\n396057\t416401\t這個應該對外講清楚 基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題 對水位沒有問題 讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決 你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好 部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署 國有財產署部長你注意一下 你在旁邊聽一下\n425046\t442126\t那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少\n443158\t467014\t你有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要\n468775\t484252\t要來撥用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛\n485133\t502668\t如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地\n503068\t518494\t對 都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入好不好\n519274\t541193\t報告 其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好 麻煩署長那另外因為那個我再請一下那個主計長上來一下好不好 主計長\n545472\t568526\t主長現階段我說實在的啦地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都333砍砍砍啦但是地方的需求還是不斷啦是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別呢這個公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強啊\n569426\t584802\t那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億啊\n586944\t614042\t那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛財發法接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分\n617325\t639069\t聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職 還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核 因為沒辦法核 必須要等到收養也就是因為裁判法的問題好 謝謝因為這個問題一直卡在這邊 這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果 造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞 胡搞 瞎搞所造成的結果我們現在需要休息十分鐘\n","txt":"請陳主席長跟財政部莊部長現在已經11點50所以可以發片當中等到公共委員結束以後我們休息四分鐘先請主席長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣\n就是要符合規定你認為現在有符合規定嗎?你是說一般性補助款?對因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎?\n我看不太出來有符合咧其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解\n動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解\n數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這一個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎 可行嗎\n對 這個要看溯源委員會對 那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源 要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充法被刪除的事實就要跟所有各縣市政府講清楚啦\n不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待 我覺得第一點要講第二點呢 你在三個過程當中 以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則 它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛 對不對所以說你還要依照這個財務能力 自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說 自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27%\n沒道理嘛 這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說我很公平 我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好 你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差 你刪一樣多 這不公平嘛老實說 已經不得不刪 我當然我們要面對你也是不得不 對不對\n誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊\n主席長我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子\n你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長\n部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎\n軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合\n那有什麼方法?這是道德宣示嘛不是,那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候,這部分都會納入的一個事件\n我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛\n那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22%4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是黃氏降溫啦那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給手購族給這個青青安帶的人啊依照你們\n各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有很高的你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦\n這個應該對外講清楚 基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題 對水位沒有問題 讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決 你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好 部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署 國有財產署部長你注意一下 你在旁邊聽一下\n那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少\n你有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要\n要來撥用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛\n如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地\n對 都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入好不好\n報告 其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好 麻煩署長那另外因為那個我再請一下那個主計長上來一下好不好 主計長\n主長現階段我說實在的啦地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都333砍砍砍啦但是地方的需求還是不斷啦是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別呢這個公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強啊\n那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億啊\n那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛財發法接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分\n聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職 還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核 因為沒辦法核 必須要等到收養也就是因為裁判法的問題好 謝謝因為這個問題一直卡在這邊 這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果 造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞 胡搞 瞎搞所造成的結果我們現在需要休息十分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:29.258\n請陳主席長跟財政部莊部長現在已經11點50所以可以發片當中等到公共委員結束以後我們休息四分鐘先請主席長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣\n\n00:31.243 --> 00:48.651\n就是要符合規定你認為現在有符合規定嗎?你是說一般性補助款?對因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎?\n\n00:49.997 --> 01:13.635\n我看不太出來有符合咧其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解\n\n01:14.535 --> 01:39.097\n動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解\n\n01:41.241 --> 02:07.236\n數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這一個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎可行嗎\n\n02:08.922 --> 02:37.837\n對這個要看溯源委員會對那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充法被刪除的事實就要跟所有各縣市政府講清楚啦\n\n02:38.417 --> 03:01.870\n不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待我覺得第一點要講第二點呢你在三個過程當中以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛對不對所以說你還要依照這個財務能力自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27%\n\n03:04.380 --> 03:27.331\n沒道理嘛這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說我很公平我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差你刪一樣多這不公平嘛老實說已經不得不刪我當然我們要面對你也是不得不對不對\n\n03:27.951 --> 03:46.935\n誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊\n\n03:50.677 --> 03:58.213\n主席長我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子\n\n04:00.051 --> 04:21.084\n你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長\n\n04:22.245 --> 04:42.792\n部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎\n\n04:50.122 --> 05:16.508\n軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合\n\n05:17.199 --> 05:27.431\n那有什麼方法?這是道德宣示嘛不是,那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候,這部分都會納入的一個事件\n\n05:28.129 --> 05:45.198\n我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛\n\n05:49.901 --> 06:12.471\n那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22%4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是黃氏降溫啦那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給手購族給這個青青安帶的人啊依照你們\n\n06:13.231 --> 06:34.697\n各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有很高的你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦\n\n06:36.057 --> 06:56.401\n這個應該對外講清楚基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題對水位沒有問題讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署國有財產署部長你注意一下你在旁邊聽一下\n\n07:05.046 --> 07:22.126\n那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少\n\n07:23.158 --> 07:47.014\n你有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要\n\n07:48.775 --> 08:04.252\n要來撥用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛\n\n08:05.133 --> 08:22.668\n如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地\n\n08:23.068 --> 08:38.494\n對都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入好不好\n\n08:39.274 --> 09:01.193\n報告其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好麻煩署長那另外因為那個我再請一下那個主計長上來一下好不好主計長\n\n09:05.472 --> 09:28.526\n主長現階段我說實在的啦地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都333砍砍砍啦但是地方的需求還是不斷啦是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別呢這個公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強啊\n\n09:29.426 --> 09:44.802\n那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億啊\n\n09:46.944 --> 10:14.042\n那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛財發法接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分\n\n10:17.325 --> 10:39.069\n聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核因為沒辦法核必須要等到收養也就是因為裁判法的問題好謝謝因為這個問題一直卡在這邊這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞胡搞瞎搞所造成的結果我們現在需要休息十分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":29.258,"text":"請陳主席長跟財政部莊部長現在已經11點50所以可以發片當中等到公共委員結束以後我們休息四分鐘先請主席長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣"},{"start":31.243,"end":48.651,"text":"就是要符合規定你認為現在有符合規定嗎?你是說一般性補助款?對因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎?"},{"start":49.997,"end":73.635,"text":"我看不太出來有符合咧其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解"},{"start":74.535,"end":99.097,"text":"動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解"},{"start":101.241,"end":127.236,"text":"數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這一個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎 可行嗎"},{"start":128.922,"end":157.837,"text":"對 這個要看溯源委員會對 那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源 要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充法被刪除的事實就要跟所有各縣市政府講清楚啦"},{"start":158.417,"end":181.87,"text":"不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待 我覺得第一點要講第二點呢 你在三個過程當中 以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則 它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛 對不對所以說你還要依照這個財務能力 自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說 自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27%"},{"start":184.38,"end":207.331,"text":"沒道理嘛 這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說我很公平 我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好 你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差 你刪一樣多 這不公平嘛老實說 已經不得不刪 我當然我們要面對你也是不得不 對不對"},{"start":207.951,"end":226.935,"text":"誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊"},{"start":230.677,"end":238.213,"text":"主席長我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子"},{"start":240.051,"end":261.084,"text":"你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長"},{"start":262.245,"end":282.792,"text":"部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎"},{"start":290.122,"end":316.508,"text":"軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合"},{"start":317.199,"end":327.431,"text":"那有什麼方法?這是道德宣示嘛不是,那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候,這部分都會納入的一個事件"},{"start":328.129,"end":345.198,"text":"我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛"},{"start":349.901,"end":372.471,"text":"那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22%4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是黃氏降溫啦那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給手購族給這個青青安帶的人啊依照你們"},{"start":373.231,"end":394.697,"text":"各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有很高的你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦"},{"start":396.057,"end":416.401,"text":"這個應該對外講清楚 基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題 對水位沒有問題 讓大家能夠安心然後這個公府分壇要怎麼解決 你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦不事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好 部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署 國有財產署部長你注意一下 你在旁邊聽一下"},{"start":425.046,"end":442.126,"text":"那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少"},{"start":443.158,"end":467.014,"text":"你有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要"},{"start":468.775,"end":484.252,"text":"要來撥用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛"},{"start":485.133,"end":502.668,"text":"如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地"},{"start":503.068,"end":518.494,"text":"對 都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入好不好"},{"start":519.274,"end":541.193,"text":"報告 其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好 麻煩署長那另外因為那個我再請一下那個主計長上來一下好不好 主計長"},{"start":545.472,"end":568.526,"text":"主長現階段我說實在的啦地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都333砍砍砍啦但是地方的需求還是不斷啦是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別呢這個公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強啊"},{"start":569.426,"end":584.802,"text":"那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億啊"},{"start":586.944,"end":614.042,"text":"那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛財發法接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分"},{"start":617.325,"end":639.069,"text":"聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職 還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核 因為沒辦法核 必須要等到收養也就是因為裁判法的問題好 謝謝因為這個問題一直卡在這邊 這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果 造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞 胡搞 瞎搞所造成的結果我們現在需要休息十分鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":557,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（11時51分）感謝主席，有請陳主計長跟財政部莊部長。"],["主席：現在已經11點50分，所以可以發便當。","等到郭國文委員結束以後休息10分鐘。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：先請主計長。主計長剛剛有提到關於追加預算的部分，你說這個會期會提出來對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們盡量、盡量，如果要趕。"],["郭委員國文：就你個人的理解，追加預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：就是要符合規定。"],["郭委員國文：那你認為現在有符合規定嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：你是說一般性補助款？"],["郭委員國文：對、對。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分要朝向……屬於依法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設……"],["郭委員國文：那有嗎？我看不太出來有符合，其實基本上我們希望解決問題，但是合不合法才是一個關鍵對不對？剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來，我聽起來是有矛盾，這是第一點。第二點，我想要就教於您的部分，這次凍或刪都超過過去的紀錄，但刪已經刪了沒有辦法，凍的部分有可能解。凍的部分有兩個，一個是委員會解，另外一個是院會解，就你所知道的部分，凍在這次的金額當中占總預算大概多少？委員會解凍的比例大概多少？還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解凍？"],["陳主計長淑姿：現在我們凍結的有1,381億。"],["郭委員國文：解得怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解。"],["郭委員國文：數字沒關係，你待會再給本席，我們事後再回復沒關係。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是、是、是。"],["郭委員國文：就整體來說，我們要解決目前刪得過度嚴重的問題，本來統刪的部分高達939億，然後現在不足的部分又透過636億來刪除一般補助款，刪了之後，幾個縣市長說要訴願，你認為訴願可能嗎？可行嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個要看訴願委員會。"],["郭委員國文：對，要看訴願委員會，法律上，站在主管機關的立場你要去考量訴願有沒有可行，你要去面對，因為你是被訴願的對象。光是行政院的決定算不算行政處分、能不能訴願、要訴願到何時？有沒有可能？這個都是很大問題。所以我這樣聽一聽，追加預算的可能性不大，可能不合法，然後訴願也不可行，已經造成一般補助款被刪除的事實，這要跟各縣市政府講清楚，不要讓大家充滿錯誤的期待，我覺得第一點要講。第二點，你在刪的過程當中，以一般性補助款來說，它有基本的原則，它應該均衡區域的平均發展，對不對？所以說你還要依照財務能力「自有財源」來看，以六都來說自有財源最高的是臺北市93%，最低的是臺南市55%，可是你為什麼大刀一揮全部都砍27%？沒道理嘛！這只是好到你而已，每一個來講，你說我很公平都刪27%，可是你這種刪除的方式跟你補助方式的原則就不一樣。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：刪除的方式跟補助方式的原則不一樣，你應該自有財源比較好的應該要刪多一點，自有財源比較差的你刪一樣多，這不公平嘛！老實說，已經不得不刪，當然我們要面對，你也是不得不。誰叫黃國昌要提這個案，誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對？可是他們不敢面對這個問題，又弄一個假的方式，想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任，那是不可能的事情，就打假球、推卸責任嘛！所以這種問題，你能不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍？沒道理啊！主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們是參照立法院通刪的原則。"],["郭委員國文：通刪「金額」啦！通刪金額，你怎麼可以這樣子通刪所有的縣市。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們也會檢討。"],["郭委員國文：你們要檢討一下，一般性補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的盈虛不同、平衡區域發展，原則是這樣子，你一般去給的時候都這樣子，刪什麼可以不顧這個原則？我最大的質疑在這邊。主計長，你稍微休息一下，你回去檢討一下。","第二個部分，我想請教一下莊部長。部長，你最近有沒有發現公股銀行像得雞瘟，一間一間都發生事情，從臺灣銀行行員自組詐騙集團；土地銀行行員挪用租金；第一銀行行員協助詐騙集團開戶；合作金庫到臺大醫院進行收款之後遭竊。部長，問題出在哪裡？28號不是有開過會嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["郭委員國文：阮次不是開會嗎？開完之後有什麼好的解決方法，說一下好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：我覺得第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強，因為事實上有法規相關的規範來做規定的話，落實執行非常重要，如果徒有規定而沒有落實執行，其實等於是枉然，因此在內控的部分應該要加強去做稽核。"],["郭委員國文：那有什麼方法？你這是道德宣示嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，我們當然對於各公股負責人的部分，在考評的時候，這部分都會納入的一個事件。"],["郭委員國文：老實講，這種事情一而再、再而三出現，部長跟署長都要加油。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：這種事情老是在發生很「漏氣」，公股銀行應該是最有公信力的地方。5月28號好像還討論到一個問題，還討論到不動產融資的問題、管控的問題。那我問一下，現階段來說，我看到新青安核貸件數，3月比去年少了22%，4月比同期少了40%，一說是房市降溫；一說是公股審查變嚴格。我只問一個問題，部長，到底現在還有多少水位可以給首購族、給新青安貸款的人？"],["莊部長翠雲：各個銀行的水位，其實他們在網路上都有一些公告，也就是說，第一個，銀行法有30%的一個天條限制。"],["郭委員國文：我知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：那他們有內部的預警比例，目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內，所以目前來說……"],["郭委員國文：所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了！"],["莊部長翠雲：臺灣銀行有……"],["郭委員國文：你會後數字再給本席，這個應該對外講清楚，就是說基本上水位沒有問題。"],["莊部長翠雲：水位沒有問題，對。"],["郭委員國文：水位沒有問題，讓大家能夠安心。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：然後公股銀行要怎麼解決，你也要講清楚，不是道德喊話而已，或事後處罰，我覺得這效果都非常有限，好不好？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：加油！後面一個部分，我想要問一下國有財產署。部長，你注意一下，你在旁邊聽一下。曾署長，你有一個政策本席是滿肯定的，就是要提供「公園」、「綠地」跟「兒童遊戲場」這三個地目給地方政府建立共融的公園，這個很好！我想問一下，這個到底有多少？你有去統計過嗎？"],["曾署長國基：目前還沒有，會發這個新聞稿是因為之前有地方政府要來申請，但是跟都市計畫的容許使用產生問題，所以我們跟內政部國土署開過計畫，就是同意像公園、市場，還有兒童遊戲場，這些地方政府本來要開闢的，或要來撥用的，在還沒有完成這些手續，但是要建立這個設施的時候，我們先用委託管理的方式提供，不要因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計。"],["郭委員國文：你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請，就統包來申請，看起來是這樣子。如果可以的話，我是建議署長，你把這些地目全部統籌做概括性的了解，但這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題。"],["曾署長國基：他們大部分都是有經費之後，才會來跟我要土地。"],["郭委員國文：對，就是有這個現實的問題，但是地方的需求卻很高，我們如何同時面對供需的問題來做解決？","另外一個問題我也跟您說，還有停車場部分也有這樣的需求，麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入，好不好？"],["曾署長國基：報告，其實各縣市政府都知道，就臺南市政府，我們也有跟市長這邊都談過了。"],["郭委員國文：我是希望有通盤的檢討，問題點在哪裡，我們來想一下到底是供方的問題還是需方的問題，可以嗎？"],["曾署長國基：是。"],["郭委員國文：好，麻煩署長。","另外，我再請陳主計長上來，好不好？主計長，現階段我說實在的，地方的公園大家都很需要，因為現在預算都刪、刪、刪，砍、砍、砍，但地方的需求還是不斷，是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位告知？將來在整個預算配置上面，特別就公園或停車場部分，有的是屬於交通部，有的是屬於內政部，地方的需求很強。主計長，他們這整個預算在編列的時候，提醒他們一下，考量地方的需求，譬如我舉……"],["陳主計長淑姿：可是我要跟委員報告，就是財劃法本身分配得非常不平均，所以以中央來講，他要刪減3,753億，那他要刪減，其實要優先刪減的就會是對於地方補助的計畫型補助，所以……"],["郭委員國文：就會受到更大的排擠，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，一定會受到排擠，所以這部分是不得不也沒有辦法。"],["郭委員國文：所以很困擾。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：但是明年我們要面對這個問題了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：財劃法，接下來我們要面對的這個問題是一個大問題……"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：可是地方的需求還是增加，譬如，我再跟你問一個問題，交通部有提一個公路建設的改善計畫，60億的部分，聽說行政院到現在遲遲還沒有核准，還在卡關。"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為沒辦法核，必須要等……"],["郭委員國文：也就是因為財劃法的問題。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，沒辦法。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：因為這個問題一直卡在這邊，這不是辦法！"],["主席：謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：一切都是亂刪預算的結果，造成地方建設的停滯……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：在野黨亂搞、胡搞、瞎搞所造成的結果嘛！"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在休息10分鐘。"],["郭委員國文：主席不讓我講。"],["主席：我今天對每一個人都一樣。","休息（12時2分）","繼續開會（12時13分）"],["主席：向委員報告，我們繼續開會。","請李彥秀委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":376,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-15","speakers":["賴士葆","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","李坤城","林德福","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王鴻薇","賴惠員","郭國文","李彥秀","顏寬恒","王世堅","黃國昌","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","許宇甄","張啓楷","葉元之","徐欣瑩","邱鎮軍","林思銘","蘇清泉","王美惠","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、本院台灣民眾黨黨團，有鑑於行政院主計總處行文各縣市政府，將中央編列給地方政府的一\n般性補助款自114年度5至12月份分配及撥付數全數改為未分配數，已嚴重違反立法院通案刪減、\n促進政府資源有效配置之決議精神。中央政府預算編列浮濫，原編列三兆一千億元，立法院通案\n刪減後仍有二兆九千億餘元之數，為中華民國史上最高之中央政府總預算，本院本於職責審議預\n算，以督促中央政府增進財務效能、減少不當經濟支出甚至浪費之目的，中央政府不思檢討如何\n有效節用分配資源，卻意圖慷地方政府之慨，緊縮一般性補助款補助事項，將直轄市、準用直轄\n市規定之縣及縣（市）基本財政收支差短與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等改為未分配\n數，此舉不僅違反原預算刪減提案之意旨，更將嚴重影響地方財政及運作，對地方長期建設造成\n劇烈衝擊。爰建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府\n總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助\n款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案；二、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠\n雲、內政部劉部長世芳及法務部就「近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法、地方制度法等地方政府\n之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00006"}}}