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84.356, \"end\": 84.997, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 84.997, \"end\": 85.938, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 85.938, \"end\": 86.558, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 86.558, \"end\": 87.239, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.239, \"end\": 88.08, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 88.08, \"end\": 88.22, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 88.22, \"end\": 88.46, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"麥\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 88.46, \"end\": 88.48, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 88.48, \"end\": 88.5, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 88.5, \"end\": 88.52, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"開\"}]}, {\"start\": 94.325, \"end\": 120.34, \"text\": \"我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.325, \"end\": 95.086, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 95.086, \"end\": 96.406, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 96.406, \"end\": 96.687, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 96.687, \"end\": 96.867, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 96.867, \"end\": 96.967, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 96.967, \"end\": 97.207, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 97.207, \"end\": 97.387, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 97.387, \"end\": 97.607, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 97.607, \"end\": 98.107, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 98.107, \"end\": 99.408, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"佈\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 99.408, \"end\": 99.628, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 99.628, \"end\": 100.008, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", 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那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 150.234, \"end\": 150.374, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 150.374, \"end\": 150.514, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 150.514, \"end\": 150.675, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 150.675, \"end\": 150.855, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 150.855, \"end\": 150.995, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 150.995, \"end\": 151.155, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 151.155, \"end\": 152.196, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 152.196, \"end\": 155.019, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 155.019, \"end\": 155.439, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 155.439, \"end\": 155.539, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 155.539, \"end\": 155.799, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, 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\"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 755.803, \"end\": 755.843, \"score\": 0.493}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 755.843, \"end\": 755.863, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:00,950\n麻煩請勞動基金運用局書局長\n\n2\n00:00:20,209 --> 00:00:49,372\n局长好我们查了一下贵局的新闻资料最近的一则是在6月2日发布的那么引述的是美国政府4月2日的时候宣布开征对等关税且这个税率超乎市场预期政策不确定性引发的市场担忧经济衰退风险提高那台股在4月7日的时候重挫逾2000点那跌幅到\n\n3\n00:00:51,793 --> 00:01:19,332\n9.7%那创台股历史单日最大跌点的这个跌幅记录那恐慌情绪蔓延那目前呢这个你们运总用这个规模达这个7兆7170亿元截至4月底的这个评价后收益数为-2215亿元收益率为-2.98%那因此我想说请教一下苏局长\n\n4\n00:01:20,272 --> 00:01:28,520\n5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布是什麼樣的原因麥克風要打開\n\n5\n00:01:34,325 --> 00:02:00,340\n我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字\n\n6\n00:02:01,661 --> 00:02:28,453\n所以我們六月是公布前一個月份不是五月因為我們六月二號就第一個公布所以你們五月份大概要八月才會七月所以你們每個月都會公布但是看不到前面一個月的因為目前我們還在結算那個五月底的數字現在是六月嘛好沒關係我大概就弄清楚啦這個沒有什麼特別要刁難什麼問題\n\n7\n00:02:30,234 --> 00:02:54,117\n因為好像每次都是雙月你們確定每個月都會公佈就對了我們每個月都會公佈收益數好那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比\n\n8\n00:02:56,363 --> 00:03:21,772\n百分比是我們我們有7兆多有配置在國內的部位有國外的有股票的也有債券還有另類資產那都有不同的一個比例所以所以大概就是說除了國內股市之外你們其他還有國內債券還有國外的債券國外的權益證據股票然後還有那個另類資產\n\n9\n00:03:24,073 --> 00:03:49,666\n那我想了解就是說因為我們資料上看不到就是說國內跟國外的這個投資比例大概是多少原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範有的可以投資國外有的不能投資股票那目前為止如果我們以新智基金來看大概是原則上大概是一半一半但是新智會在國外的部位高一點\n\n10\n00:03:50,925 --> 00:04:09,486\n所以這樣子你有比較具體的數據嗎大概是五十七五十八左右就是整個來看的話是這樣就是五十七五十八是國外因為國外的市場比較大好那你們就是除了這個股票跟基金之外還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些\n\n11\n00:04:11,968 --> 00:04:32,877\n我們的投資標的包括國內股票還有包括國外的像ETF基金另外還有國內的債券是一定有還有包括國外的債券然後還有我們也有另外的像投資國外的不動產投資信託的標的也有所以國外還有這個不動產的信託那我想其實剛剛這樣問是想\n\n12\n00:04:40,640 --> 00:05:03,396\n檢視一下你們這個想法你們的這個規劃看起來也大概也大概就是大家都可以想得到的那接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題就是說你的支出長官是勞動部長以部長的職權部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略\n\n13\n00:05:04,617 --> 00:05:29,754\n報告委員我們內部訂有相關的規範我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序以國內股票為例那這個部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股我們以國內股票為例來說因為你若可以規範可以要求那事情就大了但是如果績效不彰的時候部長有沒有責任還是由書局長來負最終的責任\n\n14\n00:05:35,072 --> 00:05:48,665\n這個我們的投資就是大家都很努力我們希望每年多賺錢當然市場會有不好的時候但是我們也希望長期是獲利的所以誰要負責\n\n15\n00:05:52,211 --> 00:06:19,208\n我今天不用擔心我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢的釐清然後有一些新的想法這不是要刁難誰啦這樣投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理喔那部長目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求或是那個對好那我只是想問說績效部長的時候部長有沒有責任而已\n\n16\n00:06:20,168 --> 00:06:43,756\n應該是基金運用局你要扛全責就對了好很好我想我們身為未懷委員會的成員我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業佳績的調升讓你們從表1一下直接提高到表17\n\n17\n00:06:45,376 --> 00:07:06,367\n那我也曾經要求說應該將這個每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友還有這個退休勞工朋友的這個退休金賬戶內我想這些訴求呢今天都實現了我想除了感謝蘇局長之外呢也跟這個前任的這個蔡豐欣局長那也跟大家表達這個感謝\n\n18\n00:07:08,408 --> 00:07:33,704\n事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值其實它背後就是公平與正義這個勞動基金講求的是穩健所以不能說為了更高的預期效益然後就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下所以也不能容許任何人從中獲取某取利益然後犧牲到勞工的權益\n\n19\n00:07:34,665 --> 00:07:58,412\n那麼因此在這個國際的經濟情勢的變動是我們台灣無法改變的那這裡面呢股市的這個聯動是最直接顯著的那今年三四月的這個台灣股市的表現創下很多的歷史記錄我猜這是你們五月份沒有發布新聞的沒有我沒有就是那個進度的問題但是如果說\n\n20\n00:08:00,646 --> 00:08:08,114\n局長是我們這個基金的這個掌舵者那請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控的這個風險\n\n21\n00:08:10,134 --> 00:08:30,521\n報告委員市場變化確實越來越劇烈但是我們基金是一個希望有一個長期穩健收益所以我剛剛提到就是說我們在配置的部分我們一定是多元分散我想多元分散是一個很重要的一個想法一個思考那是不是\n\n22\n00:08:31,501 --> 00:08:48,729\n我在這邊有一些建議那局長可以聽聽看就是說我們是不是也就是說來增加國內的投資比例也是一種選項例如本土化的這個新創產業或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的這個投資獎勵產業\n\n23\n00:08:52,211 --> 00:09:06,861\n這些就說如同當年我們的這個台積電的這個公司一樣因為你們有沒有想過就說在當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任在那個法治還不是很健全的時代\n\n24\n00:09:08,082 --> 00:09:20,892\n我們有這個能力產生護國神山那你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多但是呢只是說能做一些一般民眾也可以做的這個買賣\n\n25\n00:09:24,134 --> 00:09:49,335\n也可以就是說一般民眾也可以去做的這個買股票這樣的事情我相信喔股市是一種它是一種零和的結果啦那長期下來一方所得呢就等於是他方的這個所失畢竟就是說勞工去投資買賣股票跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的我不知道署長有沒有認同我剛剛的一些觀點\n\n26\n00:09:50,956 --> 00:10:13,949\n謝謝委員指教那對於我們這個資產的配置還有投資的標的我們因為這個勞動基金有關我們勞工的退休生活所以我們非常的謹慎對所以我今天拋出這樣的一個想法你們可以未來研議看看因為從這個公平正義的角度你們倒不如去投資有潛力的這個新創事業\n\n27\n00:10:14,969 --> 00:10:40,667\n或者投資一些紮根在台灣的產業特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業例如比較偏鄉地區的產業以台東縣為例養生運動休閒觀光企業還有農漁業的這個生產跟加工醫療照護綠色能源生技科技還有很多產業是屬於這種投資獎勵的產業可是地方政府能做的很有限特別是一項中央\n\n28\n00:10:41,127 --> 00:11:06,564\n或台東縣政府專案核准設立資本縣內的產業只要我有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資我們大概我們在投資的標的目前大概是以有流動性上市櫃股票為主那最主要是我們的我們必須要準備相關的流動性那另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序\n\n29\n00:11:07,905 --> 00:11:34,043\n這個我理解但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能只是過去從來都沒有被思考過沒有被討論過所以我今天拋出這樣的議題我希望你們也可以朝這個方向可以好好的去研究去演繹因為生產AI晶片的這個回答公司一直他有宣布就是說要在北市科成立這個亞洲亞洲營運中心之後立刻帶動了這個當地鄰近的這個房價\n\n30\n00:11:37,905 --> 00:12:01,872\n那台積電在南科設廠呢台南地區的房價跟就業人口也是整個被帶動起來那你們這個勞動基金或許可以成為下一個這個護國神山堅強的後盾好所以我想這個更多元的這個前驅的思維我們未來投資不要這麼狹隘那這個所以我\n\n31\n00:12:02,752 --> 00:12:25,384\n這個拜託可以好好研議因為護國神三五不是只有晶片而已那這個糧食安全也是一個很重要的一個項目那所以這個部分我想這樣的投入讓更多人加入勞保同時產生這個開源節流的效益同時這也是解決你們勞保年金\n\n32\n00:12:26,064 --> 00:12:35,863\n也是解決這個勞保年金的一種方式啦好那謝謝我想這個後面後續我們可能辦公室在約時間大家好好討論是好謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇署長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t950\t麻煩請勞動基金運用局書局長\n20209\t49372\t局长好我们查了一下贵局的新闻资料最近的一则是在6月2日发布的那么引述的是美国政府4月2日的时候宣布开征对等关税且这个税率超乎市场预期政策不确定性引发的市场担忧经济衰退风险提高那台股在4月7日的时候重挫逾2000点那跌幅到\n51793\t79332\t9.7%那创台股历史单日最大跌点的这个跌幅记录那恐慌情绪蔓延那目前呢这个你们运总用这个规模达这个7兆7170亿元截至4月底的这个评价后收益数为-2215亿元收益率为-2.98%那因此我想说请教一下苏局长\n80272\t88520\t5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布是什麼樣的原因麥克風要打開\n94325\t120340\t我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字\n121661\t148453\t所以我們六月是公布前一個月份不是五月因為我們六月二號就第一個公布所以你們五月份大概要八月才會七月所以你們每個月都會公布但是看不到前面一個月的因為目前我們還在結算那個五月底的數字現在是六月嘛好沒關係我大概就弄清楚啦這個沒有什麼特別要刁難什麼問題\n150234\t174117\t因為好像每次都是雙月你們確定每個月都會公佈就對了我們每個月都會公佈收益數好 那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比\n176363\t201772\t百分比是我們我們有7兆多有配置在國內的部位有國外的有股票的也有債券還有另類資產那都有不同的一個比例所以所以大概就是說除了國內股市之外你們其他還有國內債券還有國外的債券國外的權益證據股票然後還有那個另類資產\n204073\t229666\t那我想了解就是說因為我們資料上看不到就是說國內跟國外的這個投資比例大概是多少原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範有的可以投資國外有的不能投資股票那目前為止如果我們以新智基金來看大概是原則上大概是一半一半但是新智會在國外的部位高一點\n230925\t249486\t所以這樣子你有比較具體的數據嗎大概是五十七五十八左右就是整個來看的話是這樣就是五十七五十八是國外因為國外的市場比較大好那你們就是除了這個股票跟基金之外還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些\n251968\t272877\t我們的投資標的包括國內股票還有包括國外的像ETF基金另外還有國內的債券是一定有還有包括國外的債券然後還有我們也有另外的像投資國外的不動產投資信託的標的也有所以國外還有這個不動產的信託那我想其實剛剛這樣問是想\n280640\t303396\t檢視一下你們這個想法你們的這個規劃看起來也大概也大概就是大家都可以想得到的那接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題就是說你的支出長官是勞動部長以部長的職權部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略\n304617\t329754\t報告委員我們內部訂有相關的規範我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序以國內股票為例那這個部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股我們以國內股票為例來說因為你若可以規範可以要求那事情就大了但是如果績效不彰的時候部長有沒有責任還是由書局長來負最終的責任\n335072\t348665\t這個我們的投資就是大家都很努力我們希望每年多賺錢當然市場會有不好的時候但是我們也希望長期是獲利的所以誰要負責\n352211\t379208\t我今天不用擔心我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢的釐清然後有一些新的想法這不是要刁難誰啦這樣投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理喔那部長目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求或是那個對好那我只是想問說績效部長的時候部長有沒有責任而已\n380168\t403756\t應該是基金運用局你要扛全責就對了好很好我想我們身為未懷委員會的成員我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業佳績的調升讓你們從表1一下直接提高到表17\n405376\t426367\t那我也曾經要求說應該將這個每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友還有這個退休勞工朋友的這個退休金賬戶內我想這些訴求呢今天都實現了我想除了感謝蘇局長之外呢也跟這個前任的這個蔡豐欣局長那也跟大家表達這個感謝\n428408\t453704\t事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值其實它背後就是公平與正義這個勞動基金講求的是穩健所以不能說為了更高的預期效益然後就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下所以也不能容許任何人從中獲取某取利益然後犧牲到勞工的權益\n454665\t478412\t那麼因此在這個國際的經濟情勢的變動是我們台灣無法改變的那這裡面呢股市的這個聯動是最直接顯著的那今年三四月的這個台灣股市的表現創下很多的歷史記錄我猜這是你們五月份沒有發布新聞的沒有我沒有就是那個進度的問題但是如果說\n480646\t488114\t局長是我們這個基金的這個掌舵者那請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控的這個風險\n490134\t510521\t報告委員市場變化確實越來越劇烈但是我們基金是一個希望有一個長期穩健收益所以我剛剛提到就是說我們在配置的部分我們一定是多元分散我想多元分散是一個很重要的一個想法一個思考那是不是\n511501\t528729\t我在這邊有一些建議那局長可以聽聽看就是說我們是不是也就是說來增加國內的投資比例也是一種選項例如本土化的這個新創產業或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的這個投資獎勵產業\n532211\t546861\t這些就說如同當年我們的這個台積電的這個公司一樣因為你們有沒有想過就說在當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任在那個法治還不是很健全的時代\n548082\t560892\t我們有這個能力產生護國神山那你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多但是呢只是說能做一些一般民眾也可以做的這個買賣\n564134\t589335\t也可以就是說一般民眾也可以去做的這個買股票這樣的事情我相信喔股市是一種它是一種零和的結果啦那長期下來一方所得呢就等於是他方的這個所失畢竟就是說勞工去投資買賣股票跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的我不知道署長有沒有認同我剛剛的一些觀點\n590956\t613949\t謝謝委員指教那對於我們這個資產的配置還有投資的標的我們因為這個勞動基金有關我們勞工的退休生活所以我們非常的謹慎對所以我今天拋出這樣的一個想法你們可以未來研議看看因為從這個公平正義的角度你們倒不如去投資有潛力的這個新創事業\n614969\t640667\t或者投資一些紮根在台灣的產業特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業例如比較偏鄉地區的產業以台東縣為例養生運動休閒觀光企業還有農漁業的這個生產跟加工醫療照護綠色能源生技科技還有很多產業是屬於這種投資獎勵的產業可是地方政府能做的很有限特別是一項中央\n641127\t666564\t或台東縣政府專案核准設立資本縣內的產業只要我有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資我們大概我們在投資的標的目前大概是以有流動性上市櫃股票為主那最主要是我們的我們必須要準備相關的流動性那另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序\n667905\t694043\t這個我理解但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能只是過去從來都沒有被思考過沒有被討論過所以我今天拋出這樣的議題我希望你們也可以朝這個方向可以好好的去研究去演繹因為生產AI晶片的這個回答公司一直他有宣布就是說要在北市科成立這個亞洲亞洲營運中心之後立刻帶動了這個當地鄰近的這個房價\n697905\t721872\t那台積電在南科設廠呢台南地區的房價跟就業人口也是整個被帶動起來那你們這個勞動基金或許可以成為下一個這個護國神山堅強的後盾好所以我想這個更多元的這個前驅的思維我們未來投資不要這麼狹隘那這個所以我\n722752\t745384\t這個拜託可以好好研議因為護國神三五不是只有晶片而已那這個糧食安全也是一個很重要的一個項目那所以這個部分我想這樣的投入讓更多人加入勞保同時產生這個開源節流的效益同時這也是解決你們勞保年金\n746064\t755863\t也是解決這個勞保年金的一種方式啦好那謝謝我想這個後面後續我們可能辦公室在約時間大家好好討論是好謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇署長\n","txt":"麻煩請勞動基金運用局書局長\n局长好我们查了一下贵局的新闻资料最近的一则是在6月2日发布的那么引述的是美国政府4月2日的时候宣布开征对等关税且这个税率超乎市场预期政策不确定性引发的市场担忧经济衰退风险提高那台股在4月7日的时候重挫逾2000点那跌幅到\n9.7%那创台股历史单日最大跌点的这个跌幅记录那恐慌情绪蔓延那目前呢这个你们运总用这个规模达这个7兆7170亿元截至4月底的这个评价后收益数为-2215亿元收益率为-2.98%那因此我想说请教一下苏局长\n5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布是什麼樣的原因麥克風要打開\n我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字\n所以我們六月是公布前一個月份不是五月因為我們六月二號就第一個公布所以你們五月份大概要八月才會七月所以你們每個月都會公布但是看不到前面一個月的因為目前我們還在結算那個五月底的數字現在是六月嘛好沒關係我大概就弄清楚啦這個沒有什麼特別要刁難什麼問題\n因為好像每次都是雙月你們確定每個月都會公佈就對了我們每個月都會公佈收益數好 那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比\n百分比是我們我們有7兆多有配置在國內的部位有國外的有股票的也有債券還有另類資產那都有不同的一個比例所以所以大概就是說除了國內股市之外你們其他還有國內債券還有國外的債券國外的權益證據股票然後還有那個另類資產\n那我想了解就是說因為我們資料上看不到就是說國內跟國外的這個投資比例大概是多少原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範有的可以投資國外有的不能投資股票那目前為止如果我們以新智基金來看大概是原則上大概是一半一半但是新智會在國外的部位高一點\n所以這樣子你有比較具體的數據嗎大概是五十七五十八左右就是整個來看的話是這樣就是五十七五十八是國外因為國外的市場比較大好那你們就是除了這個股票跟基金之外還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些\n我們的投資標的包括國內股票還有包括國外的像ETF基金另外還有國內的債券是一定有還有包括國外的債券然後還有我們也有另外的像投資國外的不動產投資信託的標的也有所以國外還有這個不動產的信託那我想其實剛剛這樣問是想\n檢視一下你們這個想法你們的這個規劃看起來也大概也大概就是大家都可以想得到的那接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題就是說你的支出長官是勞動部長以部長的職權部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略\n報告委員我們內部訂有相關的規範我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序以國內股票為例那這個部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股我們以國內股票為例來說因為你若可以規範可以要求那事情就大了但是如果績效不彰的時候部長有沒有責任還是由書局長來負最終的責任\n這個我們的投資就是大家都很努力我們希望每年多賺錢當然市場會有不好的時候但是我們也希望長期是獲利的所以誰要負責\n我今天不用擔心我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢的釐清然後有一些新的想法這不是要刁難誰啦這樣投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理喔那部長目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求或是那個對好那我只是想問說績效部長的時候部長有沒有責任而已\n應該是基金運用局你要扛全責就對了好很好我想我們身為未懷委員會的成員我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業佳績的調升讓你們從表1一下直接提高到表17\n那我也曾經要求說應該將這個每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友還有這個退休勞工朋友的這個退休金賬戶內我想這些訴求呢今天都實現了我想除了感謝蘇局長之外呢也跟這個前任的這個蔡豐欣局長那也跟大家表達這個感謝\n事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值其實它背後就是公平與正義這個勞動基金講求的是穩健所以不能說為了更高的預期效益然後就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下所以也不能容許任何人從中獲取某取利益然後犧牲到勞工的權益\n那麼因此在這個國際的經濟情勢的變動是我們台灣無法改變的那這裡面呢股市的這個聯動是最直接顯著的那今年三四月的這個台灣股市的表現創下很多的歷史記錄我猜這是你們五月份沒有發布新聞的沒有我沒有就是那個進度的問題但是如果說\n局長是我們這個基金的這個掌舵者那請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控的這個風險\n報告委員市場變化確實越來越劇烈但是我們基金是一個希望有一個長期穩健收益所以我剛剛提到就是說我們在配置的部分我們一定是多元分散我想多元分散是一個很重要的一個想法一個思考那是不是\n我在這邊有一些建議那局長可以聽聽看就是說我們是不是也就是說來增加國內的投資比例也是一種選項例如本土化的這個新創產業或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的這個投資獎勵產業\n這些就說如同當年我們的這個台積電的這個公司一樣因為你們有沒有想過就說在當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任在那個法治還不是很健全的時代\n我們有這個能力產生護國神山那你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多但是呢只是說能做一些一般民眾也可以做的這個買賣\n也可以就是說一般民眾也可以去做的這個買股票這樣的事情我相信喔股市是一種它是一種零和的結果啦那長期下來一方所得呢就等於是他方的這個所失畢竟就是說勞工去投資買賣股票跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的我不知道署長有沒有認同我剛剛的一些觀點\n謝謝委員指教那對於我們這個資產的配置還有投資的標的我們因為這個勞動基金有關我們勞工的退休生活所以我們非常的謹慎對所以我今天拋出這樣的一個想法你們可以未來研議看看因為從這個公平正義的角度你們倒不如去投資有潛力的這個新創事業\n或者投資一些紮根在台灣的產業特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業例如比較偏鄉地區的產業以台東縣為例養生運動休閒觀光企業還有農漁業的這個生產跟加工醫療照護綠色能源生技科技還有很多產業是屬於這種投資獎勵的產業可是地方政府能做的很有限特別是一項中央\n或台東縣政府專案核准設立資本縣內的產業只要我有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資我們大概我們在投資的標的目前大概是以有流動性上市櫃股票為主那最主要是我們的我們必須要準備相關的流動性那另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序\n這個我理解但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能只是過去從來都沒有被思考過沒有被討論過所以我今天拋出這樣的議題我希望你們也可以朝這個方向可以好好的去研究去演繹因為生產AI晶片的這個回答公司一直他有宣布就是說要在北市科成立這個亞洲亞洲營運中心之後立刻帶動了這個當地鄰近的這個房價\n那台積電在南科設廠呢台南地區的房價跟就業人口也是整個被帶動起來那你們這個勞動基金或許可以成為下一個這個護國神山堅強的後盾好所以我想這個更多元的這個前驅的思維我們未來投資不要這麼狹隘那這個所以我\n這個拜託可以好好研議因為護國神三五不是只有晶片而已那這個糧食安全也是一個很重要的一個項目那所以這個部分我想這樣的投入讓更多人加入勞保同時產生這個開源節流的效益同時這也是解決你們勞保年金\n也是解決這個勞保年金的一種方式啦好那謝謝我想這個後面後續我們可能辦公室在約時間大家好好討論是好謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇署長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:00.950\n麻煩請勞動基金運用局書局長\n\n00:20.209 --> 00:49.372\n局长好我们查了一下贵局的新闻资料最近的一则是在6月2日发布的那么引述的是美国政府4月2日的时候宣布开征对等关税且这个税率超乎市场预期政策不确定性引发的市场担忧经济衰退风险提高那台股在4月7日的时候重挫逾2000点那跌幅到\n\n00:51.793 --> 01:19.332\n9.7%那创台股历史单日最大跌点的这个跌幅记录那恐慌情绪蔓延那目前呢这个你们运总用这个规模达这个7兆7170亿元截至4月底的这个评价后收益数为-2215亿元收益率为-2.98%那因此我想说请教一下苏局长\n\n01:20.272 --> 01:28.520\n5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布是什麼樣的原因麥克風要打開\n\n01:34.325 --> 02:00.340\n我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字\n\n02:01.661 --> 02:28.453\n所以我們六月是公布前一個月份不是五月因為我們六月二號就第一個公布所以你們五月份大概要八月才會七月所以你們每個月都會公布但是看不到前面一個月的因為目前我們還在結算那個五月底的數字現在是六月嘛好沒關係我大概就弄清楚啦這個沒有什麼特別要刁難什麼問題\n\n02:30.234 --> 02:54.117\n因為好像每次都是雙月你們確定每個月都會公佈就對了我們每個月都會公佈收益數好那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比\n\n02:56.363 --> 03:21.772\n百分比是我們我們有7兆多有配置在國內的部位有國外的有股票的也有債券還有另類資產那都有不同的一個比例所以所以大概就是說除了國內股市之外你們其他還有國內債券還有國外的債券國外的權益證據股票然後還有那個另類資產\n\n03:24.073 --> 03:49.666\n那我想了解就是說因為我們資料上看不到就是說國內跟國外的這個投資比例大概是多少原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範有的可以投資國外有的不能投資股票那目前為止如果我們以新智基金來看大概是原則上大概是一半一半但是新智會在國外的部位高一點\n\n03:50.925 --> 04:09.486\n所以這樣子你有比較具體的數據嗎大概是五十七五十八左右就是整個來看的話是這樣就是五十七五十八是國外因為國外的市場比較大好那你們就是除了這個股票跟基金之外還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些\n\n04:11.968 --> 04:32.877\n我們的投資標的包括國內股票還有包括國外的像ETF基金另外還有國內的債券是一定有還有包括國外的債券然後還有我們也有另外的像投資國外的不動產投資信託的標的也有所以國外還有這個不動產的信託那我想其實剛剛這樣問是想\n\n04:40.640 --> 05:03.396\n檢視一下你們這個想法你們的這個規劃看起來也大概也大概就是大家都可以想得到的那接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題就是說你的支出長官是勞動部長以部長的職權部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略\n\n05:04.617 --> 05:29.754\n報告委員我們內部訂有相關的規範我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序以國內股票為例那這個部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股我們以國內股票為例來說因為你若可以規範可以要求那事情就大了但是如果績效不彰的時候部長有沒有責任還是由書局長來負最終的責任\n\n05:35.072 --> 05:48.665\n這個我們的投資就是大家都很努力我們希望每年多賺錢當然市場會有不好的時候但是我們也希望長期是獲利的所以誰要負責\n\n05:52.211 --> 06:19.208\n我今天不用擔心我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢的釐清然後有一些新的想法這不是要刁難誰啦這樣投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理喔那部長目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求或是那個對好那我只是想問說績效部長的時候部長有沒有責任而已\n\n06:20.168 --> 06:43.756\n應該是基金運用局你要扛全責就對了好很好我想我們身為未懷委員會的成員我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業佳績的調升讓你們從表1一下直接提高到表17\n\n06:45.376 --> 07:06.367\n那我也曾經要求說應該將這個每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友還有這個退休勞工朋友的這個退休金賬戶內我想這些訴求呢今天都實現了我想除了感謝蘇局長之外呢也跟這個前任的這個蔡豐欣局長那也跟大家表達這個感謝\n\n07:08.408 --> 07:33.704\n事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值其實它背後就是公平與正義這個勞動基金講求的是穩健所以不能說為了更高的預期效益然後就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下所以也不能容許任何人從中獲取某取利益然後犧牲到勞工的權益\n\n07:34.665 --> 07:58.412\n那麼因此在這個國際的經濟情勢的變動是我們台灣無法改變的那這裡面呢股市的這個聯動是最直接顯著的那今年三四月的這個台灣股市的表現創下很多的歷史記錄我猜這是你們五月份沒有發布新聞的沒有我沒有就是那個進度的問題但是如果說\n\n08:00.646 --> 08:08.114\n局長是我們這個基金的這個掌舵者那請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控的這個風險\n\n08:10.134 --> 08:30.521\n報告委員市場變化確實越來越劇烈但是我們基金是一個希望有一個長期穩健收益所以我剛剛提到就是說我們在配置的部分我們一定是多元分散我想多元分散是一個很重要的一個想法一個思考那是不是\n\n08:31.501 --> 08:48.729\n我在這邊有一些建議那局長可以聽聽看就是說我們是不是也就是說來增加國內的投資比例也是一種選項例如本土化的這個新創產業或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的這個投資獎勵產業\n\n08:52.211 --> 09:06.861\n這些就說如同當年我們的這個台積電的這個公司一樣因為你們有沒有想過就說在當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任在那個法治還不是很健全的時代\n\n09:08.082 --> 09:20.892\n我們有這個能力產生護國神山那你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多但是呢只是說能做一些一般民眾也可以做的這個買賣\n\n09:24.134 --> 09:49.335\n也可以就是說一般民眾也可以去做的這個買股票這樣的事情我相信喔股市是一種它是一種零和的結果啦那長期下來一方所得呢就等於是他方的這個所失畢竟就是說勞工去投資買賣股票跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的我不知道署長有沒有認同我剛剛的一些觀點\n\n09:50.956 --> 10:13.949\n謝謝委員指教那對於我們這個資產的配置還有投資的標的我們因為這個勞動基金有關我們勞工的退休生活所以我們非常的謹慎對所以我今天拋出這樣的一個想法你們可以未來研議看看因為從這個公平正義的角度你們倒不如去投資有潛力的這個新創事業\n\n10:14.969 --> 10:40.667\n或者投資一些紮根在台灣的產業特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業例如比較偏鄉地區的產業以台東縣為例養生運動休閒觀光企業還有農漁業的這個生產跟加工醫療照護綠色能源生技科技還有很多產業是屬於這種投資獎勵的產業可是地方政府能做的很有限特別是一項中央\n\n10:41.127 --> 11:06.564\n或台東縣政府專案核准設立資本縣內的產業只要我有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資我們大概我們在投資的標的目前大概是以有流動性上市櫃股票為主那最主要是我們的我們必須要準備相關的流動性那另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序\n\n11:07.905 --> 11:34.043\n這個我理解但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能只是過去從來都沒有被思考過沒有被討論過所以我今天拋出這樣的議題我希望你們也可以朝這個方向可以好好的去研究去演繹因為生產AI晶片的這個回答公司一直他有宣布就是說要在北市科成立這個亞洲亞洲營運中心之後立刻帶動了這個當地鄰近的這個房價\n\n11:37.905 --> 12:01.872\n那台積電在南科設廠呢台南地區的房價跟就業人口也是整個被帶動起來那你們這個勞動基金或許可以成為下一個這個護國神山堅強的後盾好所以我想這個更多元的這個前驅的思維我們未來投資不要這麼狹隘那這個所以我\n\n12:02.752 --> 12:25.384\n這個拜託可以好好研議因為護國神三五不是只有晶片而已那這個糧食安全也是一個很重要的一個項目那所以這個部分我想這樣的投入讓更多人加入勞保同時產生這個開源節流的效益同時這也是解決你們勞保年金\n\n12:26.064 --> 12:35.863\n也是解決這個勞保年金的一種方式啦好那謝謝我想這個後面後續我們可能辦公室在約時間大家好好討論是好謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇署長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":0.95,"text":"麻煩請勞動基金運用局書局長"},{"start":20.209,"end":49.372,"text":"局长好我们查了一下贵局的新闻资料最近的一则是在6月2日发布的那么引述的是美国政府4月2日的时候宣布开征对等关税且这个税率超乎市场预期政策不确定性引发的市场担忧经济衰退风险提高那台股在4月7日的时候重挫逾2000点那跌幅到"},{"start":51.793,"end":79.332,"text":"9.7%那创台股历史单日最大跌点的这个跌幅记录那恐慌情绪蔓延那目前呢这个你们运总用这个规模达这个7兆7170亿元截至4月底的这个评价后收益数为-2215亿元收益率为-2.98%那因此我想说请教一下苏局长"},{"start":80.272,"end":88.52,"text":"5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布是什麼樣的原因麥克風要打開"},{"start":94.325,"end":120.34,"text":"我們6月原則上第一個工作天會公佈前一個月的收益數5月的部分我們目前還在統計中所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成因為我們的收益是包括國內外然後會整個統計所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公佈我們現在公佈的是截至4月底的數字"},{"start":121.661,"end":148.453,"text":"所以我們六月是公布前一個月份不是五月因為我們六月二號就第一個公布所以你們五月份大概要八月才會七月所以你們每個月都會公布但是看不到前面一個月的因為目前我們還在結算那個五月底的數字現在是六月嘛好沒關係我大概就弄清楚啦這個沒有什麼特別要刁難什麼問題"},{"start":150.234,"end":174.117,"text":"因為好像每次都是雙月你們確定每個月都會公佈就對了我們每個月都會公佈收益數好 那我另外其次我要想要請教就是說勞動基金國內各種投資標的這個金額在你們整體總運用規模的7.7170億元那大概是多少的百分比"},{"start":176.363,"end":201.772,"text":"百分比是我們我們有7兆多有配置在國內的部位有國外的有股票的也有債券還有另類資產那都有不同的一個比例所以所以大概就是說除了國內股市之外你們其他還有國內債券還有國外的債券國外的權益證據股票然後還有那個另類資產"},{"start":204.073,"end":229.666,"text":"那我想了解就是說因為我們資料上看不到就是說國內跟國外的這個投資比例大概是多少原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範有的可以投資國外有的不能投資股票那目前為止如果我們以新智基金來看大概是原則上大概是一半一半但是新智會在國外的部位高一點"},{"start":230.925,"end":249.486,"text":"所以這樣子你有比較具體的數據嗎大概是五十七五十八左右就是整個來看的話是這樣就是五十七五十八是國外因為國外的市場比較大好那你們就是除了這個股票跟基金之外還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些"},{"start":251.968,"end":272.877,"text":"我們的投資標的包括國內股票還有包括國外的像ETF基金另外還有國內的債券是一定有還有包括國外的債券然後還有我們也有另外的像投資國外的不動產投資信託的標的也有所以國外還有這個不動產的信託那我想其實剛剛這樣問是想"},{"start":280.64,"end":303.396,"text":"檢視一下你們這個想法你們的這個規劃看起來也大概也大概就是大家都可以想得到的那接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題就是說你的支出長官是勞動部長以部長的職權部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略"},{"start":304.617,"end":329.754,"text":"報告委員我們內部訂有相關的規範我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序以國內股票為例那這個部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股我們以國內股票為例來說因為你若可以規範可以要求那事情就大了但是如果績效不彰的時候部長有沒有責任還是由書局長來負最終的責任"},{"start":335.072,"end":348.665,"text":"這個我們的投資就是大家都很努力我們希望每年多賺錢當然市場會有不好的時候但是我們也希望長期是獲利的所以誰要負責"},{"start":352.211,"end":379.208,"text":"我今天不用擔心我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢的釐清然後有一些新的想法這不是要刁難誰啦這樣投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理喔那部長目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求或是那個對好那我只是想問說績效部長的時候部長有沒有責任而已"},{"start":380.168,"end":403.756,"text":"應該是基金運用局你要扛全責就對了好很好我想我們身為未懷委員會的成員我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業佳績的調升讓你們從表1一下直接提高到表17"},{"start":405.376,"end":426.367,"text":"那我也曾經要求說應該將這個每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友還有這個退休勞工朋友的這個退休金賬戶內我想這些訴求呢今天都實現了我想除了感謝蘇局長之外呢也跟這個前任的這個蔡豐欣局長那也跟大家表達這個感謝"},{"start":428.408,"end":453.704,"text":"事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值其實它背後就是公平與正義這個勞動基金講求的是穩健所以不能說為了更高的預期效益然後就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下所以也不能容許任何人從中獲取某取利益然後犧牲到勞工的權益"},{"start":454.665,"end":478.412,"text":"那麼因此在這個國際的經濟情勢的變動是我們台灣無法改變的那這裡面呢股市的這個聯動是最直接顯著的那今年三四月的這個台灣股市的表現創下很多的歷史記錄我猜這是你們五月份沒有發布新聞的沒有我沒有就是那個進度的問題但是如果說"},{"start":480.646,"end":488.114,"text":"局長是我們這個基金的這個掌舵者那請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控的這個風險"},{"start":490.134,"end":510.521,"text":"報告委員市場變化確實越來越劇烈但是我們基金是一個希望有一個長期穩健收益所以我剛剛提到就是說我們在配置的部分我們一定是多元分散我想多元分散是一個很重要的一個想法一個思考那是不是"},{"start":511.501,"end":528.729,"text":"我在這邊有一些建議那局長可以聽聽看就是說我們是不是也就是說來增加國內的投資比例也是一種選項例如本土化的這個新創產業或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的這個投資獎勵產業"},{"start":532.211,"end":546.861,"text":"這些就說如同當年我們的這個台積電的這個公司一樣因為你們有沒有想過就說在當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任在那個法治還不是很健全的時代"},{"start":548.082,"end":560.892,"text":"我們有這個能力產生護國神山那你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多但是呢只是說能做一些一般民眾也可以做的這個買賣"},{"start":564.134,"end":589.335,"text":"也可以就是說一般民眾也可以去做的這個買股票這樣的事情我相信喔股市是一種它是一種零和的結果啦那長期下來一方所得呢就等於是他方的這個所失畢竟就是說勞工去投資買賣股票跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的我不知道署長有沒有認同我剛剛的一些觀點"},{"start":590.956,"end":613.949,"text":"謝謝委員指教那對於我們這個資產的配置還有投資的標的我們因為這個勞動基金有關我們勞工的退休生活所以我們非常的謹慎對所以我今天拋出這樣的一個想法你們可以未來研議看看因為從這個公平正義的角度你們倒不如去投資有潛力的這個新創事業"},{"start":614.969,"end":640.667,"text":"或者投資一些紮根在台灣的產業特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業例如比較偏鄉地區的產業以台東縣為例養生運動休閒觀光企業還有農漁業的這個生產跟加工醫療照護綠色能源生技科技還有很多產業是屬於這種投資獎勵的產業可是地方政府能做的很有限特別是一項中央"},{"start":641.127,"end":666.564,"text":"或台東縣政府專案核准設立資本縣內的產業只要我有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資我們大概我們在投資的標的目前大概是以有流動性上市櫃股票為主那最主要是我們的我們必須要準備相關的流動性那另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序"},{"start":667.905,"end":694.043,"text":"這個我理解但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能只是過去從來都沒有被思考過沒有被討論過所以我今天拋出這樣的議題我希望你們也可以朝這個方向可以好好的去研究去演繹因為生產AI晶片的這個回答公司一直他有宣布就是說要在北市科成立這個亞洲亞洲營運中心之後立刻帶動了這個當地鄰近的這個房價"},{"start":697.905,"end":721.872,"text":"那台積電在南科設廠呢台南地區的房價跟就業人口也是整個被帶動起來那你們這個勞動基金或許可以成為下一個這個護國神山堅強的後盾好所以我想這個更多元的這個前驅的思維我們未來投資不要這麼狹隘那這個所以我"},{"start":722.752,"end":745.384,"text":"這個拜託可以好好研議因為護國神三五不是只有晶片而已那這個糧食安全也是一個很重要的一個項目那所以這個部分我想這樣的投入讓更多人加入勞保同時產生這個開源節流的效益同時這也是解決你們勞保年金"},{"start":746.064,"end":755.863,"text":"也是解決這個勞保年金的一種方式啦好那謝謝我想這個後面後續我們可能辦公室在約時間大家好好討論是好謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇署長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":876,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時13分）謝謝主席，麻煩請勞動基金運用局蘇局長。"],["主席：蘇局長。"],["蘇局長郁卿：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：局長好。我們查了一下貴局的新聞資料，最近的一則是在6月2日發布的，引述的是美國政府4月2日的時候宣布開徵對等關稅，且這個稅率超乎市場預期，政策不確定性引發市場擔憂，經濟衰退風險提高。臺股在4月7日的時候重挫逾2,000點，跌幅達9.7%，創臺股歷史單日最大跌點的跌幅紀錄，恐慌情緒蔓延。目前你們運用的勞動基金總規模達7兆7,170億元，截至4月底的評價後收益數為-2,215億元，收益率為-2.98%。因此我想請教一下蘇局長，5月初應該發布的新聞為什麼沒有發布？是什麼樣的原因？"],["蘇局長郁卿：跟委員報告，我們大概……"],["陳委員瑩：你可能麥克風要打開。"],["蘇局長郁卿：原則上我們6月第一個工作天會公布前一個月的收益數，5月的部分，我們目前還在統計中，所以5月的數字會到大概5月中下旬才會完成，因為我們的收益是包括國內外，然後會整個統計，所以5月的數字會是在7月的時候來公布。我們現在公布的是截至4月底的數字，所以我們6月是公布前一個月份，不是5月，因為我們6月2號就第一個工作日……"],["陳委員瑩：所以你們5月份大概要8月才會……"],["蘇局長郁卿：7月。"],["陳委員瑩：7月？"],["蘇局長郁卿：7月。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你們每個月都會公布，但是看不到前面一個月的？"],["蘇局長郁卿：因為目前我們還在結算5月底的數字，現在是6月嘛！"],["陳委員瑩：好，沒關係，我就弄清楚，這個沒有什麼特別要刁難的問題，因為好像每次都是雙月……你們確定每個月都會公布？"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們每個月都會公布收益數。"],["陳委員瑩：好。其次我想要請教的是，勞動基金國內各種投資標的的金額，你們整體總運用規模是7兆7,170億元，那大概是多少的百分比？"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們有七兆多，有配置在國內的部位，也有國外的，有股票的，也有債券，還有另類資產，那都有不同的一個比例。"],["陳委員瑩：所以除了國內股市之外，你們其他的投資……"],["蘇局長郁卿：還有國內債券，還有國外的債券、國外的股票，然後還有另類資產。"],["陳委員瑩：那我想了解的是，國內跟國外的投資比例大概是多少？因為我們資料上看不到。"],["蘇局長郁卿：原則上不同的基金因為有不同的投資規範，有的可以投資國外，有的不能投資股票，那目前為止，如果我們以新制基金來看，原則上大概是一半一半，但是新制在國外的部位會高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你有比較具體的數據嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：大概是57%、58%左右，整個來看的話是這樣。"],["陳委員瑩：就是57%、58%是國外？"],["蘇局長郁卿：國外，對，因為國外的市場比較大。"],["陳委員瑩：好，你們除了股票跟基金之外，還有沒有其他可以做投資的一些項目？"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，我們的投資標的包括國內股票，還有包括國外的像ETF基金，另外國內的債券是一定有，還有包括國外的債券，然後我們也有另類資產，像投資國外的REITs，不動產投資信託的標的也有，所以我們的……"],["陳委員瑩：所以國外還有不動產的信託？"],["蘇局長郁卿：對。"],["陳委員瑩：好。其實剛剛這樣問，是想檢視一下你們的規劃，看起來大概就是大家都可以想得到的。接下來我要問一個比較敏感的問題，你的直屬長官是勞動部長，以部長的職權來說，部長可不可以影響你們的投資策略？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，我們內部訂有相關的規範，我們有嚴謹的一個投資程序，以國內股票為例，部長還有我本人都不會去指定我們同仁可以投資哪個個股，我們以國內股票為例來說明……"],["陳委員瑩：對啦！因為你如果可以要求，那事情就大條了。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["陳委員瑩：但是如果績效不彰的時候，部長有沒有責任？還是由蘇局長來負最終的責任？"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們的投資就是大家都很努力，我們希望每年都賺錢，當然市場會有不好的時候，但是我們也希望長期是獲利的。"],["陳委員瑩：所以誰要負責？不用擔心，我今天問的都只是在協助大家慢慢地釐清，然後有一些新的想法，這不是要刁難誰。"],["蘇局長郁卿：像投資的部分大概都是在我們局裡來處理，部長到目前為止都沒有對我們的投資有特別的要求。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我只是想問績效不彰的時候，部長有沒有責任而已。"],["蘇局長郁卿：應該是基金運用局。"],["陳委員瑩：就是你要扛全責就對了，好，很好。我想我們身為衛環委員會的成員，我很高興在上一屆曾經為你們基金運用局的同仁爭取專業加給的調升，讓你們從表(一)一下直接提高到表(十七)。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員瑩：我也曾經要求，應該將每年的盈餘直接分配到勞工朋友的退休金帳戶內，這些訴求今天都實現了，我想除了感謝蘇局長之外，也跟前任的蔡豐清局長表達感謝。事實上這些關注所隱含的信念跟價值，其實它背後就是公平與正義，勞動基金講求的是穩健，所以不能說為了更高的預期效益，就讓勞工的錢暴露在過高的風險之下，也不能容許任何人從中謀取利益，然後犧牲到勞工的權益。因此，國際經濟情勢的變動是我們臺灣無法改變的，這裡面股市的連動是最直接顯著的，今年3、4月臺灣股市的表現創下很多歷史紀錄，我猜這是你們5月沒有發布新聞的……"],["蘇局長郁卿：沒有，我們每年都是固定的。"],["陳委員瑩：沒有關係，就是那個紀錄的問題。好，但是如果局長是這個基金的掌舵者，請問局長要如何降低受到國際不可控風險的影響？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，市場變化確實愈來愈劇烈，但是我們基金希望能有一個長期穩健的收益，所以我剛剛提到，我們在配置的部分一定是多元分散。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我想多元分散是一個很重要的想法與思考，我在這邊有一些建議，局長是不是可以聽聽看？我們是不是可以增加國內的投資比例，這也是一種選項，例如，本土化的新創產業，或者是縣市政府鼓勵推動的投資獎勵產業，這些就如同當年台積電這家公司一樣，你們有沒有想過，因為當年那個時候官員的魄力與責任，在那個法制還不是很健全的時代，我們有這個能力產生護國神山，而你們現在手上掌控的資源比當時還要多，卻做一些一般民眾也可以做的，像買股票這樣的事情。","我相信股市是一種零和的結果，長期下來一方所得就等於他方所失，畢竟勞工去投資買賣股票，跟你們相比賺錢的機會一定是比較少的，我不知道局長有沒有認同我剛剛講的一些觀點？"],["蘇局長郁卿：謝謝委員的指教，對於我們資產的配置，還有投資的標的，因為這個勞退基金攸關勞工的退休生活，所以我們非常謹慎。"],["陳委員瑩：對，所以我今天拋出了這樣的想法，你們未來可以研議看看，因為從公平正義的角度，你們倒不如去投資有潛力的新創事業，或者是投資一些扎根在臺灣的產業，特別是能夠幫助到地方就業人數增加的產業，例如比較偏鄉地區的產業。以臺東縣為例，像養生運動休閒觀光企業，還有農、漁業的生產跟加工、醫療照護、綠色能源、生技科技，還有很多產業是屬於投資獎勵的產業，可是地方政府能做的很有限，特別是經中央或臺東縣政府專案核准設立之本縣內的產業，只要有獲利的機會是不是就可以被投資？"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們投資的標的目前大概是以具流動性的上市櫃股票為主，最主要是我們必須準備相關的流動性，另外我們相關的投資流程大概也都會有一定的程序。"],["陳委員瑩：這個我理解，但是我剛剛提的也不是完全不可能，只是過去從來都沒有被思考過、沒有被討論過，所以我今天才拋出這樣的議題，希望你們也可以朝這個方向好好地去研議。因為生產AI晶片的輝達公司宣布要在北士科成立亞洲營運中心之後，立刻帶動了當地鄰近的房價，台積電在南科設廠，臺南地區的房價跟就業人口也被整個帶動起來，你們這個勞退基金或許可以成為下一個護國神山堅強的後盾，所以我想你們要有更多元、前驅的思維，未來投資不要這麼狹隘，所以拜託這個可以好好研議。"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們來研議。"],["陳委員瑩：因為護國神山不是只有晶片而已，糧食安全也是一個很重要的項目，所以這個部分有這樣的投入，讓更多人加入勞保，同時產生開源節流的效益，這也是解決勞保年金的一種方式。","好，謝謝。我想後續我們辦公室可能再約時間來好好討論。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝蘇局長。","接續請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-15","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","麥玉珍","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","李坤城","楊曜","徐欣瑩","林德福","涂權吉"],"page_start":377,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「勞工退休金制度改革，含勞保、勞退執行現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00007"}}}