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0.731}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 451.697, \"end\": 451.877, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 451.877, \"end\": 452.157, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 452.157, \"end\": 452.297, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 452.297, \"end\": 452.497, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 452.497, \"end\": 452.677, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 452.677, \"end\": 452.697, \"score\": 0.022}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:29,857\n謝謝主席我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好主席長好主席長我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過\n\n2\n00:00:32,090 --> 00:00:37,498\n主席請您回答主席請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過從地質法通過以來沒有\n\n3\n00:00:47,830 --> 00:01:03,648\n沒有嘛主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嘛那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的\n\n4\n00:01:04,228 --> 00:01:24,443\n補助金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法\n\n5\n00:01:25,183 --> 00:01:47,268\n我們是依法來刪減依什麼法不是我們是一般性的補助辦法裡面它是說你可以卓越補助那現在立法院要求我們刪減636我們是有困難所以這個部門才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文行政院在113年8月30號發函給\n\n6\n00:01:50,650 --> 00:02:13,750\n這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出\n\n7\n00:02:14,611 --> 00:02:38,596\n第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎我以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是\n\n8\n00:02:38,976 --> 00:02:50,049\n法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯呢剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是\n\n9\n00:02:51,325 --> 00:03:14,255\n依法律義務的部分雖然有法言依據但是它並沒有規定標準因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的這個經費之後對地方有什麼影響好請那個雲林的曾秘書長\n\n10\n00:03:21,907 --> 00:03:44,368\n謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的\n\n11\n00:03:45,069 --> 00:03:58,275\n第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對於雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式\n\n12\n00:04:00,756 --> 00:04:20,587\n這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地薰旗也到了颱風旗也到了這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款\n\n13\n00:04:21,087 --> 00:04:48,909\n所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們\n\n14\n00:04:50,090 --> 00:05:18,864\n這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好謝謝主席謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的\n\n15\n00:05:19,784 --> 00:05:48,619\n一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的\n\n16\n00:05:50,480 --> 00:06:10,671\n經費均有斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦主計總署跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告\n\n17\n00:06:11,994 --> 00:06:19,483\n宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上有累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共對債務還款了38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的\n\n18\n00:06:33,558 --> 00:07:01,560\n在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭線的一般性補助款的額度以上\n\n19\n00:07:02,921 --> 00:07:17,169\n好謝謝像主席講你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或以南縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的\n\n20\n00:07:18,270 --> 00:07:32,697\n這個還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以邀請主計長喔要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2960\t29857\t謝謝主席 我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好 雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好 主席長好主席長 我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過\n32090\t37498\t主席 請您回答主席 請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過從地質法通過以來沒有\n47830\t63648\t沒有嘛 主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嘛那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的\n64228\t84443\t補助金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法\n85183\t107268\t我們是依法來刪減 依什麼法不是 我們是一般性的補助辦法裡面 它是說你可以卓越補助那現在立法院要求我們刪減636 我們是有困難所以這個部門才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文 行政院在113年8月30號發函給\n110650\t133750\t這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出\n134611\t158596\t第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎我以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是\n158976\t170049\t法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯呢剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是\n171325\t194255\t依法律義務的部分雖然有法言依據但是它並沒有規定標準因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的這個經費之後對地方有什麼影響好 請那個雲林的曾秘書長\n201907\t224368\t謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的\n225069\t238275\t第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對於雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式\n240756\t260587\t這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地薰旗也到了 颱風旗也到了這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款\n261087\t288909\t所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們\n290090\t318864\t這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的\n319784\t348619\t一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的\n350480\t370671\t經費均有斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦主計總署跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告\n371994\t379483\t宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上有累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共對債務還款了38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的\n393558\t421560\t在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭線的一般性補助款的額度以上\n422921\t437169\t好 謝謝像主席講你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或以南縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的\n438270\t452697\t這個還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以邀請主計長喔要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好 雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好 主席長好主席長 我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過\n主席 請您回答主席 請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過從地質法通過以來沒有\n沒有嘛 主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嘛那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的\n補助金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法\n我們是依法來刪減 依什麼法不是 我們是一般性的補助辦法裡面 它是說你可以卓越補助那現在立法院要求我們刪減636 我們是有困難所以這個部門才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文 行政院在113年8月30號發函給\n這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出\n第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎我以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是\n法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯呢剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是\n依法律義務的部分雖然有法言依據但是它並沒有規定標準因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的這個經費之後對地方有什麼影響好 請那個雲林的曾秘書長\n謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的\n第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對於雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式\n這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地薰旗也到了 颱風旗也到了這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款\n所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們\n這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的\n一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的\n經費均有斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦主計總署跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告\n宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上有累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共對債務還款了38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的\n在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭線的一般性補助款的額度以上\n好 謝謝像主席講你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或以南縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的\n這個還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以邀請主計長喔要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.960 --> 00:29.857\n謝謝主席我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好主席長好主席長我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過\n\n00:32.090 --> 00:37.498\n主席請您回答主席請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過從地質法通過以來沒有\n\n00:47.830 --> 01:03.648\n沒有嘛主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嘛那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的\n\n01:04.228 --> 01:24.443\n補助金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法\n\n01:25.183 --> 01:47.268\n我們是依法來刪減依什麼法不是我們是一般性的補助辦法裡面它是說你可以卓越補助那現在立法院要求我們刪減636我們是有困難所以這個部門才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文行政院在113年8月30號發函給\n\n01:50.650 --> 02:13.750\n這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出\n\n02:14.611 --> 02:38.596\n第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎我以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是\n\n02:38.976 --> 02:50.049\n法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯呢剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是\n\n02:51.325 --> 03:14.255\n依法律義務的部分雖然有法言依據但是它並沒有規定標準因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的這個經費之後對地方有什麼影響好請那個雲林的曾秘書長\n\n03:21.907 --> 03:44.368\n謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的\n\n03:45.069 --> 03:58.275\n第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對於雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式\n\n04:00.756 --> 04:20.587\n這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地薰旗也到了颱風旗也到了這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款\n\n04:21.087 --> 04:48.909\n所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們\n\n04:50.090 --> 05:18.864\n這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好謝謝主席謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的\n\n05:19.784 --> 05:48.619\n一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的\n\n05:50.480 --> 06:10.671\n經費均有斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦主計總署跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告\n\n06:11.994 --> 06:19.483\n宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上有累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共對債務還款了38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的\n\n06:33.558 --> 07:01.560\n在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭線的一般性補助款的額度以上\n\n07:02.921 --> 07:17.169\n好謝謝像主席講你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或以南縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的\n\n07:18.270 --> 07:32.697\n這個還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以邀請主計長喔要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.96,"end":29.857,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好 雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好 主席長好主席長 我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過"},{"start":32.09,"end":37.498,"text":"主席 請您回答主席 請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過從地質法通過以來沒有"},{"start":47.83,"end":63.648,"text":"沒有嘛 主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嘛那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的"},{"start":64.228,"end":84.443,"text":"補助金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法"},{"start":85.183,"end":107.268,"text":"我們是依法來刪減 依什麼法不是 我們是一般性的補助辦法裡面 它是說你可以卓越補助那現在立法院要求我們刪減636 我們是有困難所以這個部門才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文 行政院在113年8月30號發函給"},{"start":110.65,"end":133.75,"text":"這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出"},{"start":134.611,"end":158.596,"text":"第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎我以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是"},{"start":158.976,"end":170.049,"text":"法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯呢剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是"},{"start":171.325,"end":194.255,"text":"依法律義務的部分雖然有法言依據但是它並沒有規定標準因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的這個經費之後對地方有什麼影響好 請那個雲林的曾秘書長"},{"start":201.907,"end":224.368,"text":"謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的"},{"start":225.069,"end":238.275,"text":"第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對於雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式"},{"start":240.756,"end":260.587,"text":"這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地薰旗也到了 颱風旗也到了這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款"},{"start":261.087,"end":288.909,"text":"所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們"},{"start":290.09,"end":318.864,"text":"這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的"},{"start":319.784,"end":348.619,"text":"一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的"},{"start":350.48,"end":370.671,"text":"經費均有斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦主計總署跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告"},{"start":371.994,"end":379.483,"text":"宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上有累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共對債務還款了38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的"},{"start":393.558,"end":421.56,"text":"在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭線的一般性補助款的額度以上"},{"start":422.921,"end":437.169,"text":"好 謝謝像主席講你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或以南縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的"},{"start":438.27,"end":452.697,"text":"這個還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以邀請主計長喔要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1000,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（13時26分）謝謝主席，請主計長跟雲林縣政府曾秘書長，還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長。"],["主席：陳主計長、雲林的曾秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主計長好。主計長，我想請教你，地方制度法從88年修法通過之後，行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款，請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過？主計長，請您回答。主計長，請您回答有沒有在執行時被刪減過，從地制法通過以來？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有。"],["許委員宇甄：沒有嘛！主計長，也就是說地方縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過，剛剛主計長回答的是這樣。","另外再請教主計長，地方政府依據主計總處提供的補助款金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方議會審議通過，但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方的一般性補助款，是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則？這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢？有沒有違法？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們是依法來刪減，那這個部分……"],["許委員宇甄：依什麼法？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我們一般性的補助辦法裡面是說可以酌予補助，現在立法院要求我們刪減636億，我們是有困難，所以這個部分我們才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款。"],["許委員宇甄：主計長，我想請你看一個文，就是行政院在113年8月30日發函給立法院的附件，有一個114年度法律義務支出明細表，其中也清楚的列出一般性補助款是屬於法律義務支出依法是不得刪減的，請問一下剛剛主計長您說過的，行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%，請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出？"],["陳主計長淑姿：第一個，我們對於一般縣市的補助是酌予補助；第二個，你說刪減依法律義務的部分，以往也都有刪減，像國債付息、補助財團法人……"],["許委員宇甄：法律義務支出可以刪減嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：以前都有刪減過，立法院也有刪減過，就是在國債付息……"],["許委員宇甄：那就是一般性的地方性補助款，你們以前有刪減過嗎？我剛剛問你，你說沒有嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：一般性補助款是沒有，但是其他依法律……"],["許委員宇甄：那一般性補助款既然是法律的義務支出，為什麼又可以刪減？我實在有點不懂這個邏輯，剛剛你告訴我，一般性的以前從來沒有刪減過，那它是屬於法律義務支出吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，依法律義務的部分雖然有法源依據，但是它並沒有規定刪減的標準。"],["許委員宇甄：主計長，我跟你講，因為時間的關係，我必須先讓你聽一下地方的聲音，依據地方制度法第六十九條第一項規定，各上級政府為謀地方均衡發展，對於財力較差之地方政府應酌予補助。我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府的說明，刪減27.3%的經費之後對地方有什麼影響。"],["主席：請雲林的曾秘書長。"],["曾秘書長元煌：謝謝主席，也謝謝委員。我想我分三點來說明，雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市，我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助費收大概每年都有6億的缺口，即使現在逐年補助，每年大概最多也增加到5億，所以這個缺口都是存在的。第二個部分就是，這一次砍了一般補助款37億，再加上我們114年的運動會也要到了，計畫性補助款也沒有下來，所以對於雲林縣來講是一個雪上加霜的狀況，這一次在這個補助款的額度減免裡面有教育、社福，這部分我想各縣市大概都有表示意見；而在基礎設施的部分，我想要更強調一點，就是雲林縣是一個很重要的農業生產基地，汛期也到了，颱風期也到了，這些基礎的設施都靠這些補助款，所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響。以上說明。"],["許委員宇甄：OK。所以對雲林縣這樣的農業縣，也是財政相對弱勢的縣市，刪減補助款37.6億，再加上剛剛您提到的全國的運動會，會造成的財務缺口我覺得可以說是雪上加霜啦，所以我想這個影響非常地大。我們再來聽一下宜蘭縣政府的部分，也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市。"],["主席：好，請吳秘書長。"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下刪減一般性補助款27.3%，對宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響？"],["吳秘書長志宏：謝謝主席，謝謝委員，也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下。大概在去年，我們收到行政院的函，原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億，結果在今年刪除了一般性補助款25.56億，總共只剩下68.03億，大概衝擊到我們應優先支應的農民健保跟國民年金以及老農津貼的法定義務支出，而且要彌補中低收入、老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助等必要的社會福利支出，其他對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關經費均有斷炊之虞，這是第一點。","當初我們也跟行政院主計總處反映，刪減了25.56億，我們縣市政府該怎麼辦？主計總處給我們的回應是，叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債。我跟各位報告，宜蘭縣到目前為止，迄今尚有累積短絀67億，長短期債務173億，最近這幾年，我們林姿妙縣長上任之後，總共對債務還款了38.57億，在112年好不容易從重度的債限調整到中度，要往輕度發展，主計總處竟然叫我們再增加舉債，這樣我們就勢必要走回頭路。","我想剛才也有委員提到，苗栗跟宜蘭的財政都是相當困難，這邊我們也是再度懇請行政院這邊能夠儘速恢復宜蘭縣原有的一般性補助款的額度。以上。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。主計長，你剛剛聽到，我想不管是雲林縣或宜蘭縣，他們都是財政相對弱勢的縣市，你也聽到這對他們的影響很大，不管是身障的、托育的縮減，以及老人供餐、營養午餐，還有一些基礎建設的部分，事實上都會受到很大的影響，所以請主計長回去要跟行政院長報告一下，真的要懸崖勒馬，不要剋扣地方的一般性補助款，讓他們能夠好好地為地方做事，謝謝。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們是不得不減，是這樣子。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員。","接著我們請張啓楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":376,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-15","speakers":["賴士葆","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","李坤城","林德福","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王鴻薇","賴惠員","郭國文","李彥秀","顏寬恒","王世堅","黃國昌","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","許宇甄","張啓楷","葉元之","徐欣瑩","邱鎮軍","林思銘","蘇清泉","王美惠","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、本院台灣民眾黨黨團，有鑑於行政院主計總處行文各縣市政府，將中央編列給地方政府的一\n般性補助款自114年度5至12月份分配及撥付數全數改為未分配數，已嚴重違反立法院通案刪減、\n促進政府資源有效配置之決議精神。中央政府預算編列浮濫，原編列三兆一千億元，立法院通案\n刪減後仍有二兆九千億餘元之數，為中華民國史上最高之中央政府總預算，本院本於職責審議預\n算，以督促中央政府增進財務效能、減少不當經濟支出甚至浪費之目的，中央政府不思檢討如何\n有效節用分配資源，卻意圖慷地方政府之慨，緊縮一般性補助款補助事項，將直轄市、準用直轄\n市規定之縣及縣（市）基本財政收支差短與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等改為未分配\n數，此舉不僅違反原預算刪減提案之意旨，更將嚴重影響地方財政及運作，對地方長期建設造成\n劇烈衝擊。爰建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府\n總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助\n款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案；二、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠\n雲、內政部劉部長世芳及法務部就「近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法、地方制度法等地方政府\n之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00006"}}}