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832.131, \"end\": 832.271, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 832.271, \"end\": 832.391, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 832.391, \"end\": 832.552, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"员\", \"start\": 832.552, \"end\": 832.572, \"score\": 0.847}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,813 --> 00:00:23,104\n好谢谢赵伟我们是不是请李次长好有请李次长嗨次长好今天为什么部长不出席有比这个备询更重要的事情吗还是他认为这个议题不是太重要所以请次长出来就可以了\n\n2\n00:00:24,997 --> 00:00:33,182\n這我不清楚因為我一開始接到的就是由我來出席因為當然文資的業務是由我來做當然如果說這個議題非常重要的話還是應該請部長親自出席我們來看一下書面報告92年開始推動98年我們就選出了17處的潛力點然後呢我們在99年的時候又把一處變成兩處然後共1899年\n\n3\n00:00:48,912 --> 00:01:13,187\n已经做了这件事情之后又过了15年感觉其他好像都在原地踏步没有什么进展更不要说是突破那说实在的申报世界遗产我们必须要做足功课依据申遗的指标就要提出文本篆拟18处的潜力点当中文本篆拟进度目前是完成11个还有7处没有完成那这个进度次长你满意吗\n\n4\n00:01:16,025 --> 00:01:36,977\n當然就覺得有點可惜啦就希望還是因為現在七處主要都是我們內政部所以說顯然起來還是覺得有很大空間嘛不是太滿意嘛但可以接受嘛但是我說實在我今天看了你十頁的報告字數三千多一點點最重要的是我看不到預期的目標執行的策略法制面怎麼樣來研修\n\n5\n00:01:38,178 --> 00:02:07,399\n跨部会又是如何如何有效管理我们推动了22年目前为止到底有没有评估跟检讨困难在哪里怎么解决这才是今天最大的重点我们希望把这些完全发扬光大但是我们到底做了什么22年来我们做的什么我们要问一个比较务实的问题世界遗产潜力点是业务是归哪一科我们文资局的国际交流科用于潜力点的一年预算是多少\n\n6\n00:02:09,202 --> 00:02:36,497\n這個部分有一個數字嗎多少你們應該知道預算多少一年預算多少大概五千萬五千萬上下不會吧就是補助那個地方縣市辦理我這邊資料我們要看對一下到時候弄清楚平均每一年一千五百萬到兩千萬一個點補助大概是一百五十到兩百萬這應該才是正確的數字喔台灣世界遺產推動會多久開會一次\n\n7\n00:02:38,060 --> 00:02:47,078\n要看我們大概一年會開兩次的會議文化部的官員出席的層級部長部長一年有開到一到兩次會嗎\n\n8\n00:02:48,533 --> 00:03:08,637\n小野部長上任之後的兩次都是他親自主持好那我們來看一下喔你說你說一月就開始有第六屆的台灣世界遺產推動會我們開會就決定針對前一點特別是我們今天的主軸阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀那你們說要跟相關的民間團體來做合作推廣請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作民間機關哪一個民間團體\n\n9\n00:03:18,001 --> 00:03:18,882\n那我想請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持支援\n\n10\n00:03:37,492 --> 00:04:04,572\n我们每一年都会支持就是主席高中的这个青年大使的团体所以你们给予经费给予非常多好那这个部分里面来说我们来看一下世界遗产推动会所做的决议以本席的立场来去看其实蛮担保的我看不出到底要怎么样其实科长很认真说实在但以他一个科去对国外来推展阿里山林业这个潜力点我觉得真的是对他来说太沉重\n\n11\n00:04:05,473 --> 00:04:22,094\n老实说从民国92年就是我们2003年文建会就把阿里山这样的部分列为辅导重点准备向全世界来做推广22年之后我们文建会已经变成文化部了你有什么具体的成果跟具体的绩效吗\n\n12\n00:04:23,015 --> 00:04:46,590\n而且我跟次長說你說要跟大家來去開籌備國際會等等之類的說實在是蠻空泛你要如何跨部會主政的機關寫的農業部理業署寫的嘉義縣政府寫的嘉義市政府還要不要再找交通部觀光署國際聯繫要不要找外交部鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園鏈要不要找內政部國家公園署這些都有沒有找會議紀錄有沒有找這些人有\n\n13\n00:04:48,411 --> 00:05:10,244\n外交部内政部都有找是不是好到时候把这些资料给本席来看一下而且还有很重要108年2019年7月你们文资局以这个阿里山林业纪铁道文艺化景观你把阿里山林业铁路登陆为第一个国家级的重要文化景观对不起注意你们只有登陆\n\n14\n00:05:11,104 --> 00:05:35,945\n除了登陆文化部做的就是登陆还能做什么因为为什么为什么要谈到这个部分因为你们现在目前来说是一个很重要的国宝级的文化资产那文化部只能说一下登陆一下宣传一下但你有没有管理的权限你光是要整合这么多单位就很多行政的程序也非常的融常很重要的一点世界遗产的潜力点有没有法律依据法律依据有没有\n\n15\n00:05:37,421 --> 00:06:03,006\n目前就是刚刚讲的这个没有你们22年来没有修过任何一条法只有一个要点这么重要今天召委排的一个这么重要我们来反观22年来没有法源只有一个要点你告诉我22年来我们有很在乎我们文化世界文化疑点的这样子的盘点然后把它发扬光大吗我们光是这么样的一个具体没有法源这个要点22年\n\n16\n00:06:05,026 --> 00:06:34,386\n然后呢我说实在的以法治层面来说规范不足经费不足政府要设多少人力你才能够让阿里山林业跟铁道永续的经营我们要保存啊但是呢林业署要多少的经费可以让整个养护整个车辆的维持农业部的一个署的人力物力专业能力有没有办法然后如果像你们报告里面所提到的你们还要做调列这么多我想请问文化部有办法来接手或是主导吗\n\n17\n00:06:35,066 --> 00:06:44,133\n以這個方案來說文化部可以主導來接手嗎文化部跟林業署的一直維持非常密切的合作關係我告訴你喔很現實的問題啦阿里山鐵路基本的維修每年平均要六千萬如果不幸遇到颱風或石灘部分中斷還要額外經費\n\n18\n00:06:52,839 --> 00:07:04,429\n而且呢十年來阿里山談的十多年的民營化都很難以實現如果文化不承擔不起的話我告訴你五年十年一樣在原部塌地我們現在要找出解方這個報告三千字多一點點沒有解方也沒有預期的目標\n\n19\n00:07:09,614 --> 00:07:12,915\n所以你要以阿里山的鐵道絕對支持但是你們寫這個報告我看不出任何的前瞻性而且你還要砸更多的錢那文化部如果這樣子的話你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議2022跟2023一場國際會議350萬然後呢加起來今年編330萬三年來1000多萬\n\n20\n00:07:28,641 --> 00:07:42,863\n绩效成果到底是如何二十二年代从过去文件化到文化部一三年花了一千多万到底我们对于这个所谓世界我们要真的把他这个世界遗产的这个前提点我们到底的绩效跟成果我们还是要问嘛对不对\n\n21\n00:07:44,125 --> 00:08:06,976\n这介绍成果到底如何我真的没有看到你们刚刚所讲的对我来说都是一般一般的一个流程而且刚刚次长也很诚实的提到了我们向目前为止世界这个这个申报这个遗产的啊世界遗迹的这部分我们是要联合国的会员吗我们是要联合国的会员那你们现在做的事情我们像今天在做的事情就好像是我们要准备\n\n22\n00:08:08,517 --> 00:08:34,279\n练习模拟考好像叫什么都把它准备很好但是对不起我们还是没有办法真正的拿到报考资格我们没有办法拿到报考资格我们一直在模拟考我们没有报考资格因为我们不是联合国的会员所以我们目前的整个世界遗产我们的联系的窗口我们到底如何这个是我们未来最终的目的那我就是针对今天这样的一个题目我请问次长你认为申请世界遗产的成功率有多大\n\n23\n00:08:36,807 --> 00:08:52,695\n當然你剛剛講了委員很清楚知道我們要是申請適宜的最主要都是需要有會員國聯合國的會員國或者是締約所以我們會不會要把我們的目標稍微能夠既然我們都已經知道這個現實的環境我們知道我們國境的處境那我們今天\n\n24\n00:08:53,215 --> 00:09:02,886\n把一個名稱叫做世界台灣世界一起來成立點的保存跟推動我們可以把我們的目標在三千多的資源我們看不到目標我們要把目標放在一個什麼樣大家可以更具體看到的台灣可以被看到我們覺得這個前立點我們被看到我們後續的步驟是怎麼樣\n\n25\n00:09:13,138 --> 00:09:16,701\n但是呢我們把當世界遺產那個是在這個地方可以當作是一個遙遠的但這個過程你告訴我Monica考了半天沒有辦法連報考資格都沒有那我們目標該怎麼樣來設定目標是在這個地方我們才知道該怎麼樣一步來推動你設立一個完全沒有報考連一個資格都沒有辦法進去那我們怎麼辦我們要不要務實一點\n\n26\n00:09:34,813 --> 00:10:01,162\n跟委員報告所以我們採取的策略就是要辦幾國際論壇跟國際鏈接然後去參加國際組織讓這些考試委員讓這些負責考試的人他都知道我們達到那個水準了我們擁有那個潛力資格雖然我們現在沒有報考資格可是至少讓這一些所以我們永遠都是潛力資格跟WHAWHA可能還有機會因為是世界性的這個部分但是\n\n27\n00:10:02,162 --> 00:10:20,770\nUNESCO裡面你就不是會員所以我們一直讓國際認為我們有這個資格我們有這個資格也可以啊你都大膽的講我們就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格就把我們的部分放在資格的這個部分但是要到那個層級上面那你就在你的三千多個字裡面大膽去寫反而否則的話我們今天剛來說所有的委員都要問我們世界遺產的這個部分第一個懷疑那我們到底最終的目標是什麼如果最終目標是放在\n\n28\n00:10:27,233 --> 00:10:52,642\n让世界看到我们有这个资格就把它调列出来如果是世界这个资格的话那下面我们该怎么样去做可是现在连你们这个部分你们也没有写出来这对我来说是最最了剩下一分钟的时间我是会问给大家蛮多关心的问题今年金曲奖入围有没有对岸的歌手歌手的部分其实有了李荣浩了好吧那你上次的金曲奖你大陆有26个艺人获准来台今年呢\n\n29\n00:10:53,626 --> 00:11:12,625\n我們還是看那個入選者他有沒有提出申請如果有的話主辦單位還是會讓入圍的歌手都還是會過來嘛對不對其實問題是目前來說去年有我們今年不知道然後呢文化部今天說你還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流嗎\n\n30\n00:11:13,286 --> 00:11:29,062\n文化部还是这个样子吗是的没错是这样子是不是对好那我们来看那我说实在的目前来说因为我们很多的艺人因为牵涉到一些的问题然后呢我们的陆委会的邱全正是特别提到的就说我们会依法来查处我们最后来看一下啊\n\n31\n00:11:30,163 --> 00:11:48,903\n到底我們比較好奇這個目前為止其實很多的藝人他們真的覺得對他們來說真的很難表不表態都會被罵好不好這個是我們現在藝人只不過好想想工作可是呢要嘛就是要被要求表態然後表也不對不表也是不對然後呢我個人覺得下面這一個\n\n32\n00:11:50,594 --> 00:12:15,390\n這個到底要文化部會不會打算修法對於他們藝人的言論做出法則文化部會不會對這一塊面做出法則上面的處理文化部目前對於兩岸人民的只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情所以文化部不會打算針對你們的藝人來做這個部分文化部目前沒有最後一個就是我也覺得說邱學正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回來來發展你覺得他這句話如何\n\n33\n00:12:18,852 --> 00:12:46,085\n邱卓正这个主委已经替你们回答文化部会积极辅导艺人同台你把这个大陆这些不管是哪一位怎么样如何回台来发展你如何辅导艺人回台来发展整个的市场的取向整个市场的金额整个市场的规模所以你对于邱卓正主委讲这句话文化部的回应是什么文化部应该是会积极辅导所有的创作者文化的创作者那这些已经成名在大陆已经成名的艺人你如何辅导他回台来发展\n\n34\n00:12:47,971 --> 00:13:14,160\n這還是由藝人她自己的評斷跟你的文化部要積極輔導啊我們如果他們想要回台發展的時候你可以幫他們找到更好的市場嗎我們還是要把整體的環境給做好所以你們會做這件事提出你們可以給台灣更友善的一個所謂的表演商業市場各方面你們文化部都會做這些這是文化部應該做的努力讓所有的文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展機會當然是\n\n35\n00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:38,894\n但是我觉得以邱主委讲这句话文化部积极辅导下一次我们就来问你们如何让这些已经在大陆成名的这些艺人在因为局势上面让他们真的是表态很困难他们愿意回来的时候你们的辅导的策略到底是什么我讲的是对于已经在大陆已经是做非常多的商业市场的这些人文化部所提出的方法当然根源很有善反击我们都支持但是\n\n36\n00:13:39,574 --> 00:13:52,572\n还是跟世界遗产一样目标定在那个地方执行的做法如何的执行做法我觉得这才是我们应该在这边彻底检讨的好不好好接到谢谢好谢谢克之恩委员\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5813\t23104\t好 谢谢赵伟 我们是不是请李次长好 有请李次长嗨 次长好今天为什么部长不出席有比这个备询更重要的事情吗还是他认为这个议题不是太重要所以请次长出来就可以了\n24997\t33182\t這我不清楚因為我一開始接到的就是由我來出席因為當然文資的業務是由我來做當然如果說這個議題非常重要的話還是應該請部長親自出席我們來看一下書面報告92年開始推動98年我們就選出了17處的潛力點然後呢我們在99年的時候又把一處變成兩處然後共1899年\n48912\t73187\t已经做了这件事情之后又过了15年感觉其他好像都在原地踏步没有什么进展更不要说是突破那说实在的申报世界遗产我们必须要做足功课依据申遗的指标就要提出文本篆拟18处的潜力点当中文本篆拟进度目前是完成11个还有7处没有完成那这个进度次长你满意吗\n76025\t96977\t當然就覺得有點可惜啦就希望還是因為現在七處主要都是我們內政部所以說顯然起來還是覺得有很大空間嘛不是太滿意嘛但可以接受嘛但是我說實在我今天看了你十頁的報告字數三千多一點點最重要的是我看不到預期的目標執行的策略法制面怎麼樣來研修\n98178\t127399\t跨部会又是如何如何有效管理我们推动了22年目前为止到底有没有评估跟检讨困难在哪里怎么解决这才是今天最大的重点我们希望把这些完全发扬光大但是我们到底做了什么22年来我们做的什么我们要问一个比较务实的问题世界遗产潜力点是业务是归哪一科我们文资局的国际交流科用于潜力点的一年预算是多少\n129202\t156497\t這個部分有一個數字嗎多少你們應該知道預算多少一年預算多少大概五千萬五千萬上下不會吧就是補助那個地方縣市辦理我這邊資料我們要看對一下到時候弄清楚平均每一年一千五百萬到兩千萬一個點補助大概是一百五十到兩百萬這應該才是正確的數字喔台灣世界遺產推動會多久開會一次\n158060\t167078\t要看 我們大概一年會開兩次的會議文化部的官員出席的層級部長部長一年有開到一到兩次會嗎\n168533\t188637\t小野部長上任之後的兩次都是他親自主持好那我們來看一下喔你說你說一月就開始有第六屆的台灣世界遺產推動會我們開會就決定針對前一點特別是我們今天的主軸阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀那你們說要跟相關的民間團體來做合作推廣請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作民間機關哪一個民間團體\n198001\t198882\t那我想請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持支援\n217492\t244572\t我们每一年都会支持就是主席高中的这个青年大使的团体所以你们给予经费给予非常多好那这个部分里面来说我们来看一下世界遗产推动会所做的决议以本席的立场来去看其实蛮担保的我看不出到底要怎么样其实科长很认真说实在但以他一个科去对国外来推展阿里山林业这个潜力点我觉得真的是对他来说太沉重\n245473\t262094\t老实说从民国92年就是我们2003年文建会就把阿里山这样的部分列为辅导重点准备向全世界来做推广22年之后我们文建会已经变成文化部了你有什么具体的成果跟具体的绩效吗\n263015\t286590\t而且我跟次長說 你說要跟大家來去開籌備國際會等等之類的說實在是蠻空泛 你要如何跨部會主政的機關寫的農業部理業署 寫的嘉義縣政府 寫的嘉義市政府還要不要再找交通部觀光署 國際聯繫要不要找外交部鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園鏈 要不要找內政部國家公園署這些都有沒有找 會議紀錄有沒有找這些人 有\n288411\t310244\t外交部 内政部都有找是不是好 到时候把这些资料给本席来看一下而且还有很重要108年2019年7月你们文资局以这个阿里山林业纪铁道文艺化景观你把阿里山林业铁路登陆为第一个国家级的重要文化景观对不起 注意你们只有登陆\n311104\t335945\t除了登陆文化部做的就是登陆还能做什么因为为什么为什么要谈到这个部分因为你们现在目前来说是一个很重要的国宝级的文化资产那文化部只能说一下登陆一下宣传一下但你有没有管理的权限你光是要整合这么多单位就很多行政的程序也非常的融常很重要的一点世界遗产的潜力点有没有法律依据法律依据有没有\n337421\t363006\t目前就是刚刚讲的这个没有你们22年来没有修过任何一条法只有一个要点这么重要今天召委排的一个这么重要我们来反观22年来没有法源只有一个要点你告诉我22年来我们有很在乎我们文化世界文化疑点的这样子的盘点然后把它发扬光大吗我们光是这么样的一个具体没有法源这个要点22年\n365026\t394386\t然后呢我说实在的以法治层面来说规范不足经费不足政府要设多少人力你才能够让阿里山林业跟铁道永续的经营我们要保存啊但是呢林业署要多少的经费可以让整个养护整个车辆的维持农业部的一个署的人力物力专业能力有没有办法然后如果像你们报告里面所提到的你们还要做调列这么多我想请问文化部有办法来接手或是主导吗\n395066\t404133\t以這個方案來說 文化部可以主導來接手嗎文化部跟林業署的一直維持非常密切的合作關係我告訴你喔 很現實的問題啦阿里山鐵路基本的維修每年平均要六千萬如果不幸遇到颱風或石灘部分中斷還要額外經費\n412839\t424429\t而且呢十年來阿里山談的十多年的民營化都很難以實現如果文化不承擔不起的話我告訴你五年十年一樣在原部塌地我們現在要找出解方這個報告三千字多一點點沒有解方也沒有預期的目標\n429614\t432915\t所以你要以阿里山的鐵道絕對支持但是你們寫這個報告我看不出任何的前瞻性而且你還要砸更多的錢那文化部如果這樣子的話你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議2022跟2023一場國際會議350萬然後呢加起來今年編330萬三年來1000多萬\n448641\t462863\t绩效成果到底是如何二十二年代从过去文件化到文化部一三年花了一千多万到底我们对于这个所谓世界我们要真的把他这个世界遗产的这个前提点我们到底的绩效跟成果我们还是要问嘛对不对\n464125\t486976\t这介绍成果到底如何我真的没有看到你们刚刚所讲的对我来说都是一般一般的一个流程而且刚刚次长也很诚实的提到了我们向目前为止世界这个这个申报这个遗产的啊世界遗迹的这部分我们是要联合国的会员吗我们是要联合国的会员那你们现在做的事情我们像今天在做的事情就好像是我们要准备\n488517\t514279\t练习模拟考好像叫什么都把它准备很好但是对不起我们还是没有办法真正的拿到报考资格我们没有办法拿到报考资格我们一直在模拟考我们没有报考资格因为我们不是联合国的会员所以我们目前的整个世界遗产我们的联系的窗口我们到底如何这个是我们未来最终的目的那我就是针对今天这样的一个题目我请问次长你认为申请世界遗产的成功率有多大\n516807\t532695\t當然你剛剛講了委員很清楚知道我們要是申請適宜的最主要都是需要有會員國聯合國的會員國或者是締約所以我們會不會要把我們的目標稍微能夠既然我們都已經知道這個現實的環境我們知道我們國境的處境那我們今天\n533215\t542886\t把一個名稱叫做世界台灣世界一起來成立點的保存跟推動我們可以把我們的目標在三千多的資源我們看不到目標我們要把目標放在一個什麼樣大家可以更具體看到的台灣可以被看到我們覺得這個前立點我們被看到我們後續的步驟是怎麼樣\n553138\t556701\t但是呢我們把當世界遺產那個是在這個地方可以當作是一個遙遠的但這個過程你告訴我Monica考了半天沒有辦法連報考資格都沒有那我們目標該怎麼樣來設定目標是在這個地方我們才知道該怎麼樣一步來推動你設立一個完全沒有報考連一個資格都沒有辦法進去那我們怎麼辦我們要不要務實一點\n574813\t601162\t跟委員報告所以我們採取的策略就是要辦幾國際論壇跟國際鏈接然後去參加國際組織讓這些考試委員讓這些負責考試的人他都知道我們達到那個水準了我們擁有那個潛力資格雖然我們現在沒有報考資格可是至少讓這一些所以我們永遠都是潛力資格跟WHAWHA可能還有機會因為是世界性的這個部分但是\n602162\t620770\tUNESCO裡面你就不是會員所以我們一直讓國際認為我們有這個資格我們有這個資格也可以啊你都大膽的講我們就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格就把我們的部分放在資格的這個部分但是要到那個層級上面那你就在你的三千多個字裡面大膽去寫反而否則的話我們今天剛來說所有的委員都要問我們世界遺產的這個部分第一個懷疑那我們到底最終的目標是什麼如果最終目標是放在\n627233\t652642\t让世界看到我们有这个资格就把它调列出来如果是世界这个资格的话那下面我们该怎么样去做可是现在连你们这个部分你们也没有写出来这对我来说是最最了剩下一分钟的时间我是会问给大家蛮多关心的问题今年金曲奖入围有没有对岸的歌手歌手的部分其实有了李荣浩了好吧那你上次的金曲奖你大陆有26个艺人获准来台今年呢\n653626\t672625\t我們還是看那個入選者他有沒有提出申請如果有的話主辦單位還是會讓入圍的歌手都還是會過來嘛對不對其實問題是目前來說去年有我們今年不知道然後呢文化部今天說你還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流嗎\n673286\t689062\t文化部还是这个样子吗是的没错是这样子是不是对好那我们来看那我说实在的目前来说因为我们很多的艺人因为牵涉到一些的问题然后呢我们的陆委会的邱全正是特别提到的就说我们会依法来查处我们最后来看一下啊\n690163\t708903\t到底我們比較好奇這個目前為止其實很多的藝人他們真的覺得對他們來說真的很難表不表態都會被罵好不好這個是我們現在藝人只不過好想想工作可是呢要嘛就是要被要求表態然後表也不對不表也是不對然後呢我個人覺得下面這一個\n710594\t735390\t這個到底要文化部會不會打算修法對於他們藝人的言論做出法則文化部會不會對這一塊面做出法則上面的處理文化部目前對於兩岸人民的只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情所以文化部不會打算針對你們的藝人來做這個部分文化部目前沒有最後一個就是我也覺得說邱學正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回來來發展你覺得他這句話如何\n738852\t766085\t邱卓正这个主委已经替你们回答文化部会积极辅导艺人同台你把这个大陆这些不管是哪一位怎么样如何回台来发展你如何辅导艺人回台来发展整个的市场的取向整个市场的金额整个市场的规模所以你对于邱卓正主委讲这句话文化部的回应是什么文化部应该是会积极辅导所有的创作者文化的创作者那这些已经成名在大陆已经成名的艺人你如何辅导他回台来发展\n767971\t794160\t這還是由藝人她自己的評斷跟你的文化部要積極輔導啊我們如果他們想要回台發展的時候你可以幫他們找到更好的市場嗎我們還是要把整體的環境給做好所以你們會做這件事提出你們可以給台灣更友善的一個所謂的表演商業市場各方面你們文化部都會做這些這是文化部應該做的努力讓所有的文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展機會當然是\n795060\t818894\t但是我觉得以邱主委讲这句话文化部积极辅导下一次我们就来问你们如何让这些已经在大陆成名的这些艺人在因为局势上面让他们真的是表态很困难他们愿意回来的时候你们的辅导的策略到底是什么我讲的是对于已经在大陆已经是做非常多的商业市场的这些人文化部所提出的方法当然根源很有善反击我们都支持但是\n819574\t832572\t还是跟世界遗产一样目标定在那个地方执行的做法如何的执行做法我觉得这才是我们应该在这边彻底检讨的好不好好 接到 谢谢好 谢谢克之恩委员\n","txt":"好 谢谢赵伟 我们是不是请李次长好 有请李次长嗨 次长好今天为什么部长不出席有比这个备询更重要的事情吗还是他认为这个议题不是太重要所以请次长出来就可以了\n這我不清楚因為我一開始接到的就是由我來出席因為當然文資的業務是由我來做當然如果說這個議題非常重要的話還是應該請部長親自出席我們來看一下書面報告92年開始推動98年我們就選出了17處的潛力點然後呢我們在99年的時候又把一處變成兩處然後共1899年\n已经做了这件事情之后又过了15年感觉其他好像都在原地踏步没有什么进展更不要说是突破那说实在的申报世界遗产我们必须要做足功课依据申遗的指标就要提出文本篆拟18处的潜力点当中文本篆拟进度目前是完成11个还有7处没有完成那这个进度次长你满意吗\n當然就覺得有點可惜啦就希望還是因為現在七處主要都是我們內政部所以說顯然起來還是覺得有很大空間嘛不是太滿意嘛但可以接受嘛但是我說實在我今天看了你十頁的報告字數三千多一點點最重要的是我看不到預期的目標執行的策略法制面怎麼樣來研修\n跨部会又是如何如何有效管理我们推动了22年目前为止到底有没有评估跟检讨困难在哪里怎么解决这才是今天最大的重点我们希望把这些完全发扬光大但是我们到底做了什么22年来我们做的什么我们要问一个比较务实的问题世界遗产潜力点是业务是归哪一科我们文资局的国际交流科用于潜力点的一年预算是多少\n這個部分有一個數字嗎多少你們應該知道預算多少一年預算多少大概五千萬五千萬上下不會吧就是補助那個地方縣市辦理我這邊資料我們要看對一下到時候弄清楚平均每一年一千五百萬到兩千萬一個點補助大概是一百五十到兩百萬這應該才是正確的數字喔台灣世界遺產推動會多久開會一次\n要看 我們大概一年會開兩次的會議文化部的官員出席的層級部長部長一年有開到一到兩次會嗎\n小野部長上任之後的兩次都是他親自主持好那我們來看一下喔你說你說一月就開始有第六屆的台灣世界遺產推動會我們開會就決定針對前一點特別是我們今天的主軸阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀那你們說要跟相關的民間團體來做合作推廣請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作民間機關哪一個民間團體\n那我想請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持支援\n我们每一年都会支持就是主席高中的这个青年大使的团体所以你们给予经费给予非常多好那这个部分里面来说我们来看一下世界遗产推动会所做的决议以本席的立场来去看其实蛮担保的我看不出到底要怎么样其实科长很认真说实在但以他一个科去对国外来推展阿里山林业这个潜力点我觉得真的是对他来说太沉重\n老实说从民国92年就是我们2003年文建会就把阿里山这样的部分列为辅导重点准备向全世界来做推广22年之后我们文建会已经变成文化部了你有什么具体的成果跟具体的绩效吗\n而且我跟次長說 你說要跟大家來去開籌備國際會等等之類的說實在是蠻空泛 你要如何跨部會主政的機關寫的農業部理業署 寫的嘉義縣政府 寫的嘉義市政府還要不要再找交通部觀光署 國際聯繫要不要找外交部鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園鏈 要不要找內政部國家公園署這些都有沒有找 會議紀錄有沒有找這些人 有\n外交部 内政部都有找是不是好 到时候把这些资料给本席来看一下而且还有很重要108年2019年7月你们文资局以这个阿里山林业纪铁道文艺化景观你把阿里山林业铁路登陆为第一个国家级的重要文化景观对不起 注意你们只有登陆\n除了登陆文化部做的就是登陆还能做什么因为为什么为什么要谈到这个部分因为你们现在目前来说是一个很重要的国宝级的文化资产那文化部只能说一下登陆一下宣传一下但你有没有管理的权限你光是要整合这么多单位就很多行政的程序也非常的融常很重要的一点世界遗产的潜力点有没有法律依据法律依据有没有\n目前就是刚刚讲的这个没有你们22年来没有修过任何一条法只有一个要点这么重要今天召委排的一个这么重要我们来反观22年来没有法源只有一个要点你告诉我22年来我们有很在乎我们文化世界文化疑点的这样子的盘点然后把它发扬光大吗我们光是这么样的一个具体没有法源这个要点22年\n然后呢我说实在的以法治层面来说规范不足经费不足政府要设多少人力你才能够让阿里山林业跟铁道永续的经营我们要保存啊但是呢林业署要多少的经费可以让整个养护整个车辆的维持农业部的一个署的人力物力专业能力有没有办法然后如果像你们报告里面所提到的你们还要做调列这么多我想请问文化部有办法来接手或是主导吗\n以這個方案來說 文化部可以主導來接手嗎文化部跟林業署的一直維持非常密切的合作關係我告訴你喔 很現實的問題啦阿里山鐵路基本的維修每年平均要六千萬如果不幸遇到颱風或石灘部分中斷還要額外經費\n而且呢十年來阿里山談的十多年的民營化都很難以實現如果文化不承擔不起的話我告訴你五年十年一樣在原部塌地我們現在要找出解方這個報告三千字多一點點沒有解方也沒有預期的目標\n所以你要以阿里山的鐵道絕對支持但是你們寫這個報告我看不出任何的前瞻性而且你還要砸更多的錢那文化部如果這樣子的話你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議2022跟2023一場國際會議350萬然後呢加起來今年編330萬三年來1000多萬\n绩效成果到底是如何二十二年代从过去文件化到文化部一三年花了一千多万到底我们对于这个所谓世界我们要真的把他这个世界遗产的这个前提点我们到底的绩效跟成果我们还是要问嘛对不对\n这介绍成果到底如何我真的没有看到你们刚刚所讲的对我来说都是一般一般的一个流程而且刚刚次长也很诚实的提到了我们向目前为止世界这个这个申报这个遗产的啊世界遗迹的这部分我们是要联合国的会员吗我们是要联合国的会员那你们现在做的事情我们像今天在做的事情就好像是我们要准备\n练习模拟考好像叫什么都把它准备很好但是对不起我们还是没有办法真正的拿到报考资格我们没有办法拿到报考资格我们一直在模拟考我们没有报考资格因为我们不是联合国的会员所以我们目前的整个世界遗产我们的联系的窗口我们到底如何这个是我们未来最终的目的那我就是针对今天这样的一个题目我请问次长你认为申请世界遗产的成功率有多大\n當然你剛剛講了委員很清楚知道我們要是申請適宜的最主要都是需要有會員國聯合國的會員國或者是締約所以我們會不會要把我們的目標稍微能夠既然我們都已經知道這個現實的環境我們知道我們國境的處境那我們今天\n把一個名稱叫做世界台灣世界一起來成立點的保存跟推動我們可以把我們的目標在三千多的資源我們看不到目標我們要把目標放在一個什麼樣大家可以更具體看到的台灣可以被看到我們覺得這個前立點我們被看到我們後續的步驟是怎麼樣\n但是呢我們把當世界遺產那個是在這個地方可以當作是一個遙遠的但這個過程你告訴我Monica考了半天沒有辦法連報考資格都沒有那我們目標該怎麼樣來設定目標是在這個地方我們才知道該怎麼樣一步來推動你設立一個完全沒有報考連一個資格都沒有辦法進去那我們怎麼辦我們要不要務實一點\n跟委員報告所以我們採取的策略就是要辦幾國際論壇跟國際鏈接然後去參加國際組織讓這些考試委員讓這些負責考試的人他都知道我們達到那個水準了我們擁有那個潛力資格雖然我們現在沒有報考資格可是至少讓這一些所以我們永遠都是潛力資格跟WHAWHA可能還有機會因為是世界性的這個部分但是\nUNESCO裡面你就不是會員所以我們一直讓國際認為我們有這個資格我們有這個資格也可以啊你都大膽的講我們就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格就把我們的部分放在資格的這個部分但是要到那個層級上面那你就在你的三千多個字裡面大膽去寫反而否則的話我們今天剛來說所有的委員都要問我們世界遺產的這個部分第一個懷疑那我們到底最終的目標是什麼如果最終目標是放在\n让世界看到我们有这个资格就把它调列出来如果是世界这个资格的话那下面我们该怎么样去做可是现在连你们这个部分你们也没有写出来这对我来说是最最了剩下一分钟的时间我是会问给大家蛮多关心的问题今年金曲奖入围有没有对岸的歌手歌手的部分其实有了李荣浩了好吧那你上次的金曲奖你大陆有26个艺人获准来台今年呢\n我們還是看那個入選者他有沒有提出申請如果有的話主辦單位還是會讓入圍的歌手都還是會過來嘛對不對其實問題是目前來說去年有我們今年不知道然後呢文化部今天說你還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流嗎\n文化部还是这个样子吗是的没错是这样子是不是对好那我们来看那我说实在的目前来说因为我们很多的艺人因为牵涉到一些的问题然后呢我们的陆委会的邱全正是特别提到的就说我们会依法来查处我们最后来看一下啊\n到底我們比較好奇這個目前為止其實很多的藝人他們真的覺得對他們來說真的很難表不表態都會被罵好不好這個是我們現在藝人只不過好想想工作可是呢要嘛就是要被要求表態然後表也不對不表也是不對然後呢我個人覺得下面這一個\n這個到底要文化部會不會打算修法對於他們藝人的言論做出法則文化部會不會對這一塊面做出法則上面的處理文化部目前對於兩岸人民的只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情所以文化部不會打算針對你們的藝人來做這個部分文化部目前沒有最後一個就是我也覺得說邱學正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回來來發展你覺得他這句話如何\n邱卓正这个主委已经替你们回答文化部会积极辅导艺人同台你把这个大陆这些不管是哪一位怎么样如何回台来发展你如何辅导艺人回台来发展整个的市场的取向整个市场的金额整个市场的规模所以你对于邱卓正主委讲这句话文化部的回应是什么文化部应该是会积极辅导所有的创作者文化的创作者那这些已经成名在大陆已经成名的艺人你如何辅导他回台来发展\n這還是由藝人她自己的評斷跟你的文化部要積極輔導啊我們如果他們想要回台發展的時候你可以幫他們找到更好的市場嗎我們還是要把整體的環境給做好所以你們會做這件事提出你們可以給台灣更友善的一個所謂的表演商業市場各方面你們文化部都會做這些這是文化部應該做的努力讓所有的文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展機會當然是\n但是我觉得以邱主委讲这句话文化部积极辅导下一次我们就来问你们如何让这些已经在大陆成名的这些艺人在因为局势上面让他们真的是表态很困难他们愿意回来的时候你们的辅导的策略到底是什么我讲的是对于已经在大陆已经是做非常多的商业市场的这些人文化部所提出的方法当然根源很有善反击我们都支持但是\n还是跟世界遗产一样目标定在那个地方执行的做法如何的执行做法我觉得这才是我们应该在这边彻底检讨的好不好好 接到 谢谢好 谢谢克之恩委员\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.813 --> 00:23.104\n好谢谢赵伟我们是不是请李次长好有请李次长嗨次长好今天为什么部长不出席有比这个备询更重要的事情吗还是他认为这个议题不是太重要所以请次长出来就可以了\n\n00:24.997 --> 00:33.182\n這我不清楚因為我一開始接到的就是由我來出席因為當然文資的業務是由我來做當然如果說這個議題非常重要的話還是應該請部長親自出席我們來看一下書面報告92年開始推動98年我們就選出了17處的潛力點然後呢我們在99年的時候又把一處變成兩處然後共1899年\n\n00:48.912 --> 01:13.187\n已经做了这件事情之后又过了15年感觉其他好像都在原地踏步没有什么进展更不要说是突破那说实在的申报世界遗产我们必须要做足功课依据申遗的指标就要提出文本篆拟18处的潜力点当中文本篆拟进度目前是完成11个还有7处没有完成那这个进度次长你满意吗\n\n01:16.025 --> 01:36.977\n當然就覺得有點可惜啦就希望還是因為現在七處主要都是我們內政部所以說顯然起來還是覺得有很大空間嘛不是太滿意嘛但可以接受嘛但是我說實在我今天看了你十頁的報告字數三千多一點點最重要的是我看不到預期的目標執行的策略法制面怎麼樣來研修\n\n01:38.178 --> 02:07.399\n跨部会又是如何如何有效管理我们推动了22年目前为止到底有没有评估跟检讨困难在哪里怎么解决这才是今天最大的重点我们希望把这些完全发扬光大但是我们到底做了什么22年来我们做的什么我们要问一个比较务实的问题世界遗产潜力点是业务是归哪一科我们文资局的国际交流科用于潜力点的一年预算是多少\n\n02:09.202 --> 02:36.497\n這個部分有一個數字嗎多少你們應該知道預算多少一年預算多少大概五千萬五千萬上下不會吧就是補助那個地方縣市辦理我這邊資料我們要看對一下到時候弄清楚平均每一年一千五百萬到兩千萬一個點補助大概是一百五十到兩百萬這應該才是正確的數字喔台灣世界遺產推動會多久開會一次\n\n02:38.060 --> 02:47.078\n要看我們大概一年會開兩次的會議文化部的官員出席的層級部長部長一年有開到一到兩次會嗎\n\n02:48.533 --> 03:08.637\n小野部長上任之後的兩次都是他親自主持好那我們來看一下喔你說你說一月就開始有第六屆的台灣世界遺產推動會我們開會就決定針對前一點特別是我們今天的主軸阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀那你們說要跟相關的民間團體來做合作推廣請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作民間機關哪一個民間團體\n\n03:18.001 --> 03:18.882\n那我想請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持支援\n\n03:37.492 --> 04:04.572\n我们每一年都会支持就是主席高中的这个青年大使的团体所以你们给予经费给予非常多好那这个部分里面来说我们来看一下世界遗产推动会所做的决议以本席的立场来去看其实蛮担保的我看不出到底要怎么样其实科长很认真说实在但以他一个科去对国外来推展阿里山林业这个潜力点我觉得真的是对他来说太沉重\n\n04:05.473 --> 04:22.094\n老实说从民国92年就是我们2003年文建会就把阿里山这样的部分列为辅导重点准备向全世界来做推广22年之后我们文建会已经变成文化部了你有什么具体的成果跟具体的绩效吗\n\n04:23.015 --> 04:46.590\n而且我跟次長說你說要跟大家來去開籌備國際會等等之類的說實在是蠻空泛你要如何跨部會主政的機關寫的農業部理業署寫的嘉義縣政府寫的嘉義市政府還要不要再找交通部觀光署國際聯繫要不要找外交部鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園鏈要不要找內政部國家公園署這些都有沒有找會議紀錄有沒有找這些人有\n\n04:48.411 --> 05:10.244\n外交部内政部都有找是不是好到时候把这些资料给本席来看一下而且还有很重要108年2019年7月你们文资局以这个阿里山林业纪铁道文艺化景观你把阿里山林业铁路登陆为第一个国家级的重要文化景观对不起注意你们只有登陆\n\n05:11.104 --> 05:35.945\n除了登陆文化部做的就是登陆还能做什么因为为什么为什么要谈到这个部分因为你们现在目前来说是一个很重要的国宝级的文化资产那文化部只能说一下登陆一下宣传一下但你有没有管理的权限你光是要整合这么多单位就很多行政的程序也非常的融常很重要的一点世界遗产的潜力点有没有法律依据法律依据有没有\n\n05:37.421 --> 06:03.006\n目前就是刚刚讲的这个没有你们22年来没有修过任何一条法只有一个要点这么重要今天召委排的一个这么重要我们来反观22年来没有法源只有一个要点你告诉我22年来我们有很在乎我们文化世界文化疑点的这样子的盘点然后把它发扬光大吗我们光是这么样的一个具体没有法源这个要点22年\n\n06:05.026 --> 06:34.386\n然后呢我说实在的以法治层面来说规范不足经费不足政府要设多少人力你才能够让阿里山林业跟铁道永续的经营我们要保存啊但是呢林业署要多少的经费可以让整个养护整个车辆的维持农业部的一个署的人力物力专业能力有没有办法然后如果像你们报告里面所提到的你们还要做调列这么多我想请问文化部有办法来接手或是主导吗\n\n06:35.066 --> 06:44.133\n以這個方案來說文化部可以主導來接手嗎文化部跟林業署的一直維持非常密切的合作關係我告訴你喔很現實的問題啦阿里山鐵路基本的維修每年平均要六千萬如果不幸遇到颱風或石灘部分中斷還要額外經費\n\n06:52.839 --> 07:04.429\n而且呢十年來阿里山談的十多年的民營化都很難以實現如果文化不承擔不起的話我告訴你五年十年一樣在原部塌地我們現在要找出解方這個報告三千字多一點點沒有解方也沒有預期的目標\n\n07:09.614 --> 07:12.915\n所以你要以阿里山的鐵道絕對支持但是你們寫這個報告我看不出任何的前瞻性而且你還要砸更多的錢那文化部如果這樣子的話你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議2022跟2023一場國際會議350萬然後呢加起來今年編330萬三年來1000多萬\n\n07:28.641 --> 07:42.863\n绩效成果到底是如何二十二年代从过去文件化到文化部一三年花了一千多万到底我们对于这个所谓世界我们要真的把他这个世界遗产的这个前提点我们到底的绩效跟成果我们还是要问嘛对不对\n\n07:44.125 --> 08:06.976\n这介绍成果到底如何我真的没有看到你们刚刚所讲的对我来说都是一般一般的一个流程而且刚刚次长也很诚实的提到了我们向目前为止世界这个这个申报这个遗产的啊世界遗迹的这部分我们是要联合国的会员吗我们是要联合国的会员那你们现在做的事情我们像今天在做的事情就好像是我们要准备\n\n08:08.517 --> 08:34.279\n练习模拟考好像叫什么都把它准备很好但是对不起我们还是没有办法真正的拿到报考资格我们没有办法拿到报考资格我们一直在模拟考我们没有报考资格因为我们不是联合国的会员所以我们目前的整个世界遗产我们的联系的窗口我们到底如何这个是我们未来最终的目的那我就是针对今天这样的一个题目我请问次长你认为申请世界遗产的成功率有多大\n\n08:36.807 --> 08:52.695\n當然你剛剛講了委員很清楚知道我們要是申請適宜的最主要都是需要有會員國聯合國的會員國或者是締約所以我們會不會要把我們的目標稍微能夠既然我們都已經知道這個現實的環境我們知道我們國境的處境那我們今天\n\n08:53.215 --> 09:02.886\n把一個名稱叫做世界台灣世界一起來成立點的保存跟推動我們可以把我們的目標在三千多的資源我們看不到目標我們要把目標放在一個什麼樣大家可以更具體看到的台灣可以被看到我們覺得這個前立點我們被看到我們後續的步驟是怎麼樣\n\n09:13.138 --> 09:16.701\n但是呢我們把當世界遺產那個是在這個地方可以當作是一個遙遠的但這個過程你告訴我Monica考了半天沒有辦法連報考資格都沒有那我們目標該怎麼樣來設定目標是在這個地方我們才知道該怎麼樣一步來推動你設立一個完全沒有報考連一個資格都沒有辦法進去那我們怎麼辦我們要不要務實一點\n\n09:34.813 --> 10:01.162\n跟委員報告所以我們採取的策略就是要辦幾國際論壇跟國際鏈接然後去參加國際組織讓這些考試委員讓這些負責考試的人他都知道我們達到那個水準了我們擁有那個潛力資格雖然我們現在沒有報考資格可是至少讓這一些所以我們永遠都是潛力資格跟WHAWHA可能還有機會因為是世界性的這個部分但是\n\n10:02.162 --> 10:20.770\nUNESCO裡面你就不是會員所以我們一直讓國際認為我們有這個資格我們有這個資格也可以啊你都大膽的講我們就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格就把我們的部分放在資格的這個部分但是要到那個層級上面那你就在你的三千多個字裡面大膽去寫反而否則的話我們今天剛來說所有的委員都要問我們世界遺產的這個部分第一個懷疑那我們到底最終的目標是什麼如果最終目標是放在\n\n10:27.233 --> 10:52.642\n让世界看到我们有这个资格就把它调列出来如果是世界这个资格的话那下面我们该怎么样去做可是现在连你们这个部分你们也没有写出来这对我来说是最最了剩下一分钟的时间我是会问给大家蛮多关心的问题今年金曲奖入围有没有对岸的歌手歌手的部分其实有了李荣浩了好吧那你上次的金曲奖你大陆有26个艺人获准来台今年呢\n\n10:53.626 --> 11:12.625\n我們還是看那個入選者他有沒有提出申請如果有的話主辦單位還是會讓入圍的歌手都還是會過來嘛對不對其實問題是目前來說去年有我們今年不知道然後呢文化部今天說你還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流嗎\n\n11:13.286 --> 11:29.062\n文化部还是这个样子吗是的没错是这样子是不是对好那我们来看那我说实在的目前来说因为我们很多的艺人因为牵涉到一些的问题然后呢我们的陆委会的邱全正是特别提到的就说我们会依法来查处我们最后来看一下啊\n\n11:30.163 --> 11:48.903\n到底我們比較好奇這個目前為止其實很多的藝人他們真的覺得對他們來說真的很難表不表態都會被罵好不好這個是我們現在藝人只不過好想想工作可是呢要嘛就是要被要求表態然後表也不對不表也是不對然後呢我個人覺得下面這一個\n\n11:50.594 --> 12:15.390\n這個到底要文化部會不會打算修法對於他們藝人的言論做出法則文化部會不會對這一塊面做出法則上面的處理文化部目前對於兩岸人民的只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情所以文化部不會打算針對你們的藝人來做這個部分文化部目前沒有最後一個就是我也覺得說邱學正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回來來發展你覺得他這句話如何\n\n12:18.852 --> 12:46.085\n邱卓正这个主委已经替你们回答文化部会积极辅导艺人同台你把这个大陆这些不管是哪一位怎么样如何回台来发展你如何辅导艺人回台来发展整个的市场的取向整个市场的金额整个市场的规模所以你对于邱卓正主委讲这句话文化部的回应是什么文化部应该是会积极辅导所有的创作者文化的创作者那这些已经成名在大陆已经成名的艺人你如何辅导他回台来发展\n\n12:47.971 --> 13:14.160\n這還是由藝人她自己的評斷跟你的文化部要積極輔導啊我們如果他們想要回台發展的時候你可以幫他們找到更好的市場嗎我們還是要把整體的環境給做好所以你們會做這件事提出你們可以給台灣更友善的一個所謂的表演商業市場各方面你們文化部都會做這些這是文化部應該做的努力讓所有的文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展機會當然是\n\n13:15.060 --> 13:38.894\n但是我觉得以邱主委讲这句话文化部积极辅导下一次我们就来问你们如何让这些已经在大陆成名的这些艺人在因为局势上面让他们真的是表态很困难他们愿意回来的时候你们的辅导的策略到底是什么我讲的是对于已经在大陆已经是做非常多的商业市场的这些人文化部所提出的方法当然根源很有善反击我们都支持但是\n\n13:39.574 --> 13:52.572\n还是跟世界遗产一样目标定在那个地方执行的做法如何的执行做法我觉得这才是我们应该在这边彻底检讨的好不好好接到谢谢好谢谢克之恩委员\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.813,"end":23.104,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟 我们是不是请李次长好 有请李次长嗨 次长好今天为什么部长不出席有比这个备询更重要的事情吗还是他认为这个议题不是太重要所以请次长出来就可以了"},{"start":24.997,"end":33.182,"text":"這我不清楚因為我一開始接到的就是由我來出席因為當然文資的業務是由我來做當然如果說這個議題非常重要的話還是應該請部長親自出席我們來看一下書面報告92年開始推動98年我們就選出了17處的潛力點然後呢我們在99年的時候又把一處變成兩處然後共1899年"},{"start":48.912,"end":73.187,"text":"已经做了这件事情之后又过了15年感觉其他好像都在原地踏步没有什么进展更不要说是突破那说实在的申报世界遗产我们必须要做足功课依据申遗的指标就要提出文本篆拟18处的潜力点当中文本篆拟进度目前是完成11个还有7处没有完成那这个进度次长你满意吗"},{"start":76.025,"end":96.977,"text":"當然就覺得有點可惜啦就希望還是因為現在七處主要都是我們內政部所以說顯然起來還是覺得有很大空間嘛不是太滿意嘛但可以接受嘛但是我說實在我今天看了你十頁的報告字數三千多一點點最重要的是我看不到預期的目標執行的策略法制面怎麼樣來研修"},{"start":98.178,"end":127.399,"text":"跨部会又是如何如何有效管理我们推动了22年目前为止到底有没有评估跟检讨困难在哪里怎么解决这才是今天最大的重点我们希望把这些完全发扬光大但是我们到底做了什么22年来我们做的什么我们要问一个比较务实的问题世界遗产潜力点是业务是归哪一科我们文资局的国际交流科用于潜力点的一年预算是多少"},{"start":129.202,"end":156.497,"text":"這個部分有一個數字嗎多少你們應該知道預算多少一年預算多少大概五千萬五千萬上下不會吧就是補助那個地方縣市辦理我這邊資料我們要看對一下到時候弄清楚平均每一年一千五百萬到兩千萬一個點補助大概是一百五十到兩百萬這應該才是正確的數字喔台灣世界遺產推動會多久開會一次"},{"start":158.06,"end":167.078,"text":"要看 我們大概一年會開兩次的會議文化部的官員出席的層級部長部長一年有開到一到兩次會嗎"},{"start":168.533,"end":188.637,"text":"小野部長上任之後的兩次都是他親自主持好那我們來看一下喔你說你說一月就開始有第六屆的台灣世界遺產推動會我們開會就決定針對前一點特別是我們今天的主軸阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀那你們說要跟相關的民間團體來做合作推廣請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作民間機關哪一個民間團體"},{"start":198.001,"end":198.882,"text":"那我想請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持支援"},{"start":217.492,"end":244.572,"text":"我们每一年都会支持就是主席高中的这个青年大使的团体所以你们给予经费给予非常多好那这个部分里面来说我们来看一下世界遗产推动会所做的决议以本席的立场来去看其实蛮担保的我看不出到底要怎么样其实科长很认真说实在但以他一个科去对国外来推展阿里山林业这个潜力点我觉得真的是对他来说太沉重"},{"start":245.473,"end":262.094,"text":"老实说从民国92年就是我们2003年文建会就把阿里山这样的部分列为辅导重点准备向全世界来做推广22年之后我们文建会已经变成文化部了你有什么具体的成果跟具体的绩效吗"},{"start":263.015,"end":286.59,"text":"而且我跟次長說 你說要跟大家來去開籌備國際會等等之類的說實在是蠻空泛 你要如何跨部會主政的機關寫的農業部理業署 寫的嘉義縣政府 寫的嘉義市政府還要不要再找交通部觀光署 國際聯繫要不要找外交部鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園鏈 要不要找內政部國家公園署這些都有沒有找 會議紀錄有沒有找這些人 有"},{"start":288.411,"end":310.244,"text":"外交部 内政部都有找是不是好 到时候把这些资料给本席来看一下而且还有很重要108年2019年7月你们文资局以这个阿里山林业纪铁道文艺化景观你把阿里山林业铁路登陆为第一个国家级的重要文化景观对不起 注意你们只有登陆"},{"start":311.104,"end":335.945,"text":"除了登陆文化部做的就是登陆还能做什么因为为什么为什么要谈到这个部分因为你们现在目前来说是一个很重要的国宝级的文化资产那文化部只能说一下登陆一下宣传一下但你有没有管理的权限你光是要整合这么多单位就很多行政的程序也非常的融常很重要的一点世界遗产的潜力点有没有法律依据法律依据有没有"},{"start":337.421,"end":363.006,"text":"目前就是刚刚讲的这个没有你们22年来没有修过任何一条法只有一个要点这么重要今天召委排的一个这么重要我们来反观22年来没有法源只有一个要点你告诉我22年来我们有很在乎我们文化世界文化疑点的这样子的盘点然后把它发扬光大吗我们光是这么样的一个具体没有法源这个要点22年"},{"start":365.026,"end":394.386,"text":"然后呢我说实在的以法治层面来说规范不足经费不足政府要设多少人力你才能够让阿里山林业跟铁道永续的经营我们要保存啊但是呢林业署要多少的经费可以让整个养护整个车辆的维持农业部的一个署的人力物力专业能力有没有办法然后如果像你们报告里面所提到的你们还要做调列这么多我想请问文化部有办法来接手或是主导吗"},{"start":395.066,"end":404.133,"text":"以這個方案來說 文化部可以主導來接手嗎文化部跟林業署的一直維持非常密切的合作關係我告訴你喔 很現實的問題啦阿里山鐵路基本的維修每年平均要六千萬如果不幸遇到颱風或石灘部分中斷還要額外經費"},{"start":412.839,"end":424.429,"text":"而且呢十年來阿里山談的十多年的民營化都很難以實現如果文化不承擔不起的話我告訴你五年十年一樣在原部塌地我們現在要找出解方這個報告三千字多一點點沒有解方也沒有預期的目標"},{"start":429.614,"end":432.915,"text":"所以你要以阿里山的鐵道絕對支持但是你們寫這個報告我看不出任何的前瞻性而且你還要砸更多的錢那文化部如果這樣子的話你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議2022跟2023一場國際會議350萬然後呢加起來今年編330萬三年來1000多萬"},{"start":448.641,"end":462.863,"text":"绩效成果到底是如何二十二年代从过去文件化到文化部一三年花了一千多万到底我们对于这个所谓世界我们要真的把他这个世界遗产的这个前提点我们到底的绩效跟成果我们还是要问嘛对不对"},{"start":464.125,"end":486.976,"text":"这介绍成果到底如何我真的没有看到你们刚刚所讲的对我来说都是一般一般的一个流程而且刚刚次长也很诚实的提到了我们向目前为止世界这个这个申报这个遗产的啊世界遗迹的这部分我们是要联合国的会员吗我们是要联合国的会员那你们现在做的事情我们像今天在做的事情就好像是我们要准备"},{"start":488.517,"end":514.279,"text":"练习模拟考好像叫什么都把它准备很好但是对不起我们还是没有办法真正的拿到报考资格我们没有办法拿到报考资格我们一直在模拟考我们没有报考资格因为我们不是联合国的会员所以我们目前的整个世界遗产我们的联系的窗口我们到底如何这个是我们未来最终的目的那我就是针对今天这样的一个题目我请问次长你认为申请世界遗产的成功率有多大"},{"start":516.807,"end":532.695,"text":"當然你剛剛講了委員很清楚知道我們要是申請適宜的最主要都是需要有會員國聯合國的會員國或者是締約所以我們會不會要把我們的目標稍微能夠既然我們都已經知道這個現實的環境我們知道我們國境的處境那我們今天"},{"start":533.215,"end":542.886,"text":"把一個名稱叫做世界台灣世界一起來成立點的保存跟推動我們可以把我們的目標在三千多的資源我們看不到目標我們要把目標放在一個什麼樣大家可以更具體看到的台灣可以被看到我們覺得這個前立點我們被看到我們後續的步驟是怎麼樣"},{"start":553.138,"end":556.701,"text":"但是呢我們把當世界遺產那個是在這個地方可以當作是一個遙遠的但這個過程你告訴我Monica考了半天沒有辦法連報考資格都沒有那我們目標該怎麼樣來設定目標是在這個地方我們才知道該怎麼樣一步來推動你設立一個完全沒有報考連一個資格都沒有辦法進去那我們怎麼辦我們要不要務實一點"},{"start":574.813,"end":601.162,"text":"跟委員報告所以我們採取的策略就是要辦幾國際論壇跟國際鏈接然後去參加國際組織讓這些考試委員讓這些負責考試的人他都知道我們達到那個水準了我們擁有那個潛力資格雖然我們現在沒有報考資格可是至少讓這一些所以我們永遠都是潛力資格跟WHAWHA可能還有機會因為是世界性的這個部分但是"},{"start":602.162,"end":620.77,"text":"UNESCO裡面你就不是會員所以我們一直讓國際認為我們有這個資格我們有這個資格也可以啊你都大膽的講我們就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格就把我們的部分放在資格的這個部分但是要到那個層級上面那你就在你的三千多個字裡面大膽去寫反而否則的話我們今天剛來說所有的委員都要問我們世界遺產的這個部分第一個懷疑那我們到底最終的目標是什麼如果最終目標是放在"},{"start":627.233,"end":652.642,"text":"让世界看到我们有这个资格就把它调列出来如果是世界这个资格的话那下面我们该怎么样去做可是现在连你们这个部分你们也没有写出来这对我来说是最最了剩下一分钟的时间我是会问给大家蛮多关心的问题今年金曲奖入围有没有对岸的歌手歌手的部分其实有了李荣浩了好吧那你上次的金曲奖你大陆有26个艺人获准来台今年呢"},{"start":653.626,"end":672.625,"text":"我們還是看那個入選者他有沒有提出申請如果有的話主辦單位還是會讓入圍的歌手都還是會過來嘛對不對其實問題是目前來說去年有我們今年不知道然後呢文化部今天說你還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流嗎"},{"start":673.286,"end":689.062,"text":"文化部还是这个样子吗是的没错是这样子是不是对好那我们来看那我说实在的目前来说因为我们很多的艺人因为牵涉到一些的问题然后呢我们的陆委会的邱全正是特别提到的就说我们会依法来查处我们最后来看一下啊"},{"start":690.163,"end":708.903,"text":"到底我們比較好奇這個目前為止其實很多的藝人他們真的覺得對他們來說真的很難表不表態都會被罵好不好這個是我們現在藝人只不過好想想工作可是呢要嘛就是要被要求表態然後表也不對不表也是不對然後呢我個人覺得下面這一個"},{"start":710.594,"end":735.39,"text":"這個到底要文化部會不會打算修法對於他們藝人的言論做出法則文化部會不會對這一塊面做出法則上面的處理文化部目前對於兩岸人民的只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情所以文化部不會打算針對你們的藝人來做這個部分文化部目前沒有最後一個就是我也覺得說邱學正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回來來發展你覺得他這句話如何"},{"start":738.852,"end":766.085,"text":"邱卓正这个主委已经替你们回答文化部会积极辅导艺人同台你把这个大陆这些不管是哪一位怎么样如何回台来发展你如何辅导艺人回台来发展整个的市场的取向整个市场的金额整个市场的规模所以你对于邱卓正主委讲这句话文化部的回应是什么文化部应该是会积极辅导所有的创作者文化的创作者那这些已经成名在大陆已经成名的艺人你如何辅导他回台来发展"},{"start":767.971,"end":794.16,"text":"這還是由藝人她自己的評斷跟你的文化部要積極輔導啊我們如果他們想要回台發展的時候你可以幫他們找到更好的市場嗎我們還是要把整體的環境給做好所以你們會做這件事提出你們可以給台灣更友善的一個所謂的表演商業市場各方面你們文化部都會做這些這是文化部應該做的努力讓所有的文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展機會當然是"},{"start":795.06,"end":818.894,"text":"但是我觉得以邱主委讲这句话文化部积极辅导下一次我们就来问你们如何让这些已经在大陆成名的这些艺人在因为局势上面让他们真的是表态很困难他们愿意回来的时候你们的辅导的策略到底是什么我讲的是对于已经在大陆已经是做非常多的商业市场的这些人文化部所提出的方法当然根源很有善反击我们都支持但是"},{"start":819.574,"end":832.572,"text":"还是跟世界遗产一样目标定在那个地方执行的做法如何的执行做法我觉得这才是我们应该在这边彻底检讨的好不好好 接到 谢谢好 谢谢克之恩委员"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":116,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時17分）好，謝謝召委。請李次長。"],["主席：好，有請李次長。"],["柯委員志恩：次長好。今天為什麼部長不出席？有比這個備詢更重要的事情嗎？還是他認為這個議題不是太重要，所以請次長出來就可以了？"],["李次長靜慧：這我不清楚，我一開始接到的訊息就是由我來出席，當然文資的業務是由我督導的。"],["柯委員志恩：如果這個議題非常重要的話，還是應該請部長親自出席。","我們來看一下書面報告，你們在92年開始推動臺灣世界遺產計畫，98年就選出了17處的潛力點，在99年的時候又把1處變成2處、總共18處，之後又過了15年，感覺起來好像都在原地踏步，沒有什麼進展，更不要說是突破喔！說實在，我們要申報世界遺產必須要做足功課。依據申遺的指標是要提出「文本撰擬」，在18處潛力點當中「文本撰擬」的進度目前已完成11個，還有7處沒有完成，這樣的進度次長滿意嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：當然覺得有點可惜啦！希望還是……因為現在這7處主要都是內政部掌管的國家公園，我們還在努力。"],["柯委員志恩：所以顯然還是有很大的改進空間，不是太滿意，但可以接受嘛！但是說實在，今天看了你們10頁的報告，字數三千多一點點，最重要的是我看不到預期的目標、執行的策略及法制面要怎麼樣研修？跨部會又是如何？如何有效管理？我們推動了22年，目前為止到底有沒有評估跟檢討？困難在哪裡？要怎麼解決？這才是今天最大的重點，我們希望把這些潛力點完全發揚光大，但是你們到底做了什麼？22年來你們做了什麼？問一個比較務實的問題，世界遺產潛力點的業務是歸哪一科負責？"],["李次長靜慧：我們文資局的國際交流科。"],["柯委員志恩：好，用於遺產潛力點的一年預算是多少？你們應該知道預算多少吧！"],["李次長靜慧：大概5,000萬元上下。"],["柯委員志恩：不會吧！"],["李次長靜慧：就是補助給地方縣市辦理。"],["柯委員志恩：我們來核對一下我這邊的資料，要弄清楚，平均每一年1,500萬到2,000萬元，一個點補助大概是150萬到200萬元，這應該才是正確的數字喔！臺灣世界遺產推動委員會多久開會一次？"],["李次長靜慧：我們大概一年會開2次的會議。"],["柯委員志恩：請問文化部官員出席的層級？"],["李次長靜慧：部長。"],["柯委員志恩：部長一年有開到1到2次會嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：小野部長上任之後的兩次會議都是由他親自主持。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們來看一下，你說1月就開始有第六屆的臺灣世界遺產推動委員會，你們開會就決定針對潛力點，特別是我們今天的主軸，有關「阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀」，你們說要跟相關的民間團體合作推廣，請問次長要跟哪一個民間團體合作？哪一個民間團體？顯然你們對這個業務都不是太熟。"],["李次長靜慧：阿里山文化協會。抱歉，因為這個案子比較新。"],["柯委員志恩：所以是跟阿里山文化協會，我不曉得你知不知道致力推廣阿里山世界遺產的嘉義竹崎高中，已經努力了10年了，請問文化部給這些年輕人什麼樣的鼓勵或什麼樣的支持及支援？"],["李次長靜慧：我們每一年都會支持竹崎高中的這個青年大使團體的預算。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們給予經費，給予非常多。"],["李次長靜慧：對。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們來看一下世界遺產推動委員會所做的決議，以本席的立場來看，其實滿單薄的，我看不出到底要怎麼樣。說實在科長很認真，當他們以一個科去對國外推展阿里山林業這個潛力點，我覺得對他來說真的是太沉重。老實說，從民國92年、就是2003年，文建會已經把阿里山鐵道及林場列為輔導重點，準備向全世界推廣，22年之後，文建會已經變成文化部了，你們有什麼具體的成果跟具體的績效嗎？而且我跟次長說，你們說要跟大家去開籌備國際論壇等等的會議，說實在滿空泛的，你們要如何跨部會？主政的機關寫的是農業部林業署、嘉義縣政府及嘉義市市政府，還要不要再找交通部觀光署？國際聯繫要不要找外交部？鐵道是位於阿里山國家公園內，要不要找內政部國家公園署？工作會議有沒有找這些機關？"],["李次長靜慧：有，外交部、內政部、交通部都是我們推動委員會的成員。"],["柯委員志恩：都有找是不是？好，到時候把這些資料提供給本席。"],["李次長靜慧：好。"],["柯委員志恩：而且還有很重要的，108年也就是2019年7月，你們文資局以「阿里山林業暨鐵道文化景觀」把阿里山林業鐵路登錄為第一個國家級的重要文化景觀，對不起，注意！你們只有登錄，文化部除了登錄還能做什麼？為什麼我會要提到這個部分？因為目前來說，這是一個很重要國寶級的文化資產，文化部只能說一下、登錄一下及宣傳一下，但你們有沒有管理的權限？你們光是要整合這麼多的單位，行政程序也非常的冗長，很重要的一點是世界遺產的潛力點，有沒有法律依據？法律依據有沒有？"],["李次長靜慧：目前就是剛剛講的登錄及……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有。22年來你們沒有修過任何一條法，只有一個要點。今天召委排了一個這麼重要的議題，我們來反觀，22年來沒有法源，只有一個要點。你告訴我，22年來我們有很在乎世界文化遺產，經過這樣的盤點後把它們發揚光大嗎？我們光是這麼樣的一個具體，沒有法源，只有一個要點，「22年」，實在的以法制層面來說，規範不足、經費不足，政府要設多少人力，你們才能夠讓阿里山林業跟鐵道永續經營？我們要保存，但是林業署要花多少經費才可以讓整個養護、整個車輛維持？農業部一個署的人力、物力、專業能力有沒有辦法？如果像你們報告裡面所提到的，你們條列這麼多的工作事項，請問文化部有辦法接手或是主導嗎？以這個方案來說，文化部可以主導接手嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：文化部跟林業署都有一直維持非常密切的合作關係。"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你很現實的問題，阿里山鐵路基本的維修費用每年平均要6,000萬元，如果不幸遇到颱風或是其他因素導致中斷，還要額外的經費，而且阿里山談了十多年的民營化都很難實現。如果文化部承擔不起的話，我告訴你，5年、10年一樣在原地踏步。我們是要找出解方，這個報告三千字多一點點，沒有解方也沒有預期的目標，所以你們要以阿里山的鐵道，絕對支持，但是你們寫這份報告，我看不出任何的前瞻性，而且你們還要砸更多的錢。","文化部如果這樣的話，你們說把經費用於舉辦國際會議，2023年及2024年一場國際會議要花費350萬元，然後今年編330萬元，3年加起來一千多萬元，績效、成果到底是如何？22年來，從過去文建會到現在文化部，3年花了一千多萬，到底你們對於世界遺產潛力點的績效跟成果是如何，我們還是要問嘛，對不對？這績效成果到底是如何？我真的沒有看到，你們剛剛所講的，對我來說都是一般的流程，而且剛剛次長也很誠實地提到了，我們現在目前為止，申報遺產、世界遺跡這部分，我們必須是聯合國的會員。你們現在做的事情、今天在做的事情，就好像要準備練習模擬考，什麼都把它準備得很好，但是對不起，我們還是沒辦法真正地拿到報考資格，我們一直在模擬考，可是我們沒有報考資格，因為我們不是聯合國的會員。","所以目前整個世界遺產的聯繫窗口到底如何？這個是我們未來的最終目的，針對今天這樣的一個題目，我請問次長，你認為申請世界遺產的成功率有多大？"],["李次長靜慧：您剛剛講的，委員很清楚知道我們申請世遺，最主要都需要有聯合國會員國或是締約的組織……"],["柯委員志恩：所以我們會不會把目標稍微能夠……既然我們都已經知道現實環境、我們的國際處境，今天名稱叫做「臺灣世界遺產潛力點」的保存跟推動，這三千多個字裡面我們看不到目標，我們要把目標放在大家可以更具體看到的，讓臺灣可以被看到。","這個潛力點被看到的後續步驟是怎麼樣？我們把世界遺產放在這個地方，可以當作是遙遠的目標，但是這個過程，你告訴我，模擬考考了半天，結果沒有辦法，連報考資格都沒有，我們的目標該怎麼樣設定？目標設置在這個地方，我們才知道該怎麼樣一步步推動，你設立一個完全沒有辦法報考、連個資格都沒有辦法進去的，怎麼辦？要不要務實一點？"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員報告，所以我們採取的策略就是辦理國際論壇跟國際鏈結，然後去參加國際組織……"],["柯委員志恩：就跟WH……"],["李次長靜慧：讓這些考試委員、讓這些負責考試的人都知道我們達到水準了，我們擁有潛力資格……"],["柯委員志恩：然後呢？"],["李次長靜慧：雖然我們現在沒有報考資格，可是至少讓這些有權的……"],["柯委員志恩：所以我們永遠都是潛力資格，跟WHA……WHA可能還有機會，因為是世界性的，但是UNESCO裡面我們就不是會員，所以你說讓國際知道我們有這個資格，也可以，你就大膽地講，就是讓大家知道我們有這個資格，就把我們的重點放在「資格」這個部分，但是要到那個層級上面，你就在三千多個字裡面大膽地去寫，否則的話，今天剛來的時候，所有委員問我們世界遺產這個部分，第一個懷疑是我們到底最終目標是什麼。如果最終目標是放在讓世界看到我們有這個資格，就把它條列出來；如果具備這個資格的話，下面我們該怎麼樣去做，結果這部分你們也沒有寫出來。這對我來說是最……","剩下1分鐘，我問一下大家滿關心的問題，今年金曲獎入圍有沒有對岸歌手？"],["李次長靜慧：歌手的部分……"],["柯委員志恩：其實有啦，李榮浩，好不好？"],["李次長靜慧：有兩位……"],["柯委員志恩：上次金曲獎大陸有26個藝人獲准來臺，今年呢？"],["李次長靜慧：我們還是看入選者有沒有提出申請……"],["柯委員志恩：如果有的話，主辦單位都還是會讓入圍歌手過來嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：對，我們就授權給移民署處理……"],["柯委員志恩：其實問題是目前來說，去年有，今年不知道，文化部今天說還是鼓勵兩岸音樂跟影視交流，文化部還是這個樣子嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：是的，沒錯。"],["柯委員志恩：是這樣子，是不是？"],["李次長靜慧：對。"],["柯委員志恩：那我們來看，我說實在的，因為很多藝人牽涉到一些問題，陸委會邱垂正特別提到會依法查處。最後來看一下，我們比較好奇，目前為止其實很多藝人覺得對他們來說真的很難，表不表態都會被罵。只不過想好好工作，結果要嘛被要求表態，表不對，不表也是不對。我個人覺得下面這個……到底文化部會不會打算修法，對於藝人的言論做出罰則？文化部會不會對這塊做出罰則上的處理？"],["李次長靜慧：目前對於兩岸人民的問題，只有兩岸人民條例可以處理這件事情……"],["柯委員志恩：所以文化部不會打算針對藝人做這個部分……"],["李次長靜慧：我們就依照……我們沒有要另外……"],["柯委員志恩：所以文化部目前沒有。最後一個，邱垂正說文化部會積極輔導藝人回臺發展，你覺得他這句話如何？邱垂正主委已經替你們回答，文化部會積極輔導藝人回臺。大陸這些不管哪一位，包括如何回臺發展、如何輔導藝人回臺發展、整個市場的取向、整個市場的金額、整個市場的規模，對於邱垂正主委講的這句話，文化部的回應是什麼？"],["李次長靜慧：文化部應該會積極輔導所有的創作者、文化的創作者，讓他能夠有好的發展。"],["柯委員志恩：這些在大陸已經成名的藝人如何輔導他回臺來發展？"],["李次長靜慧：這還是由藝人他自己的評斷跟……"],["柯委員志恩：你們文化部要積極輔導啊！"],["李次長靜慧：如果他們想要回臺發展……"],["柯委員志恩：你可以幫他找到更好的市場嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：我們還是要把整體環境做好，讓大家……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們會做這件事，你們可以給臺灣更友善的表演、商業市場各方面？你們文化部會做這些？"],["李次長靜慧：這是文化部應該做的努力，讓所有文化創作者都能夠有很好的發展計畫。"],["柯委員志恩：當然是，但是我覺得以邱主委講這句話──「文化部積極輔導」，下次我們就來問你們，如何讓這些已經在大陸成名的藝人，因為局勢上面讓他們真的是表態很困難，他們願意回來的時候，你們的輔導策略到底是什麼？我講的是對於已經在大陸做非常多商業市場的這些人，文化部所提出來的方法。當然給予友善環境，我們很支持，但還是跟世界遺產一樣，目標訂在那個地方，如何執行的作法，我覺得這才是我們在這邊應該澈底檢討的，好不好？"],["李次長靜慧：好，接到了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員。次長請回。","接下來請劉書彬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","張雅琳","范雲","林沛祥","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","萬美玲","吳思瑤","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳培瑜","林月琴","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","葉元之","謝龍介","林倩綺"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部次長李靜慧列席，就「臺灣世界遺產潛力點推動現況，暨欲求申登世界遺產必先完善\n我國潛力點保存」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145701_00002"}}}