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\"文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 166.824, \"end\": 166.904, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 166.904, \"end\": 167.324, \"score\": 0.585}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 167.324, \"end\": 167.344, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 167.344, \"end\": 167.444, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 167.444, \"end\": 167.524, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 167.524, \"end\": 167.664, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 167.664, \"end\": 167.805, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 167.805, \"end\": 167.905, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 167.905, \"end\": 168.705, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 168.705, \"end\": 169.065, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 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00:00:11,464\n有請次長再進入到申請世界遺產文化遺產的部分\n\n2\n00:00:28,737 --> 00:00:51,346\n市長來討論一個問題這個跟文化部是有相關的下一頁我們看到的是在這個叫做避拒原則避拒原則就是因為在文化的多元發展當中它非常的重要它要維護它的文化的自主跟文化的這樣子的一個特殊性那這部分它特別要排除掉一個屬於\n\n3\n00:00:53,607 --> 00:00:59,389\n正式上面的干擾我們看到文化紀編法當中就提到在第21條當中有這些相關的條文比如說在文化部門在做相關的機構委託的時候必須要做到所謂的避拒原則是非常重要的那我們看到的是政前部長他在\n\n4\n00:01:12,873 --> 00:01:27,396\n這個在107年也提到是說這個在有行政法人成立出來的時候呢必具原則是非常重要是能夠讓這樣子的一個文化的治理呢常擁有這個政治跟這個在文化當中呢必須要有它的一個專業知識體系那在這地方的話文創原則院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分必須要多元的這樣子的一個發展那我們再繼續看下一頁\n\n5\n00:01:36,958 --> 00:01:43,483\n那這個時候呢我們看到的是今年的這一部分我們先問一下文策院是否也適應這個必具原則呢當然啊當然適用嘛對不對所以主要人事任命是否應該跟政治保持距離呢\n\n6\n00:01:52,341 --> 00:02:16,072\n跟政治保持距離可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的一個管道這個本身你們自己在文策院當中就有文化部的代表文化部的這個理事在裡面的這部分就可以呈現出來那我們現在看過去的歷史經驗照您所說的部分過去曾經有\n\n7\n00:02:16,992 --> 00:02:45,444\n三位的三位的但是在兩個任期當中的這個文策院的歷任董事長可是我們看到的是丁曉慶他後來是在正式完之後才卸任之後才轉任的彭俊亨他是曾任文化部的次長那後來的話因為被這部分呢他是有文化經歷但是我們看看蔡佳慶這部分剛剛的五月份卸任的這個情況他是業界的人士但是今年五月份上任的董事長呢\n\n8\n00:02:46,824 --> 00:03:12,997\n文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎\n\n9\n00:03:15,097 --> 00:03:41,252\n當然還是符合啦因為他現在是兼任他並不是去專任這個董事會的董事長他是以兼任的方式而且這個兼任最主要的目的是因為我們文策院的投資的這個基金是來自於國發會那國發會他撥了這個基金過來的時候他還是會有些很政策上面的一個要求跟我們在審慎每一個投資案的時候他希望我們要一個很完備的一個程序\n\n10\n00:03:42,373 --> 00:04:06,086\n但你的意思是說過去的前面的兩任有三位的董事長在文化部任命的這個董事長中他們就沒有具備所謂文化政策的這個立函是嗎所以他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長所以他們了解文化政策跟政策方向跟整個文策院的\n\n11\n00:04:07,596 --> 00:04:32,990\n這個投資裡面該怎麼處理可是你本身就有一個理事在裡面喔那重點董事在裡面那我們現在重要的是難道台灣文化界就沒有其他合乎必具原則的非政務人員的人選嗎例如說像好名藝人先生啊這部分你事實上這樣子一個任命就是在踐踏可能說是忽略我剛剛說回說忽略到其他部分在文化界當中而且文策院當中本身就是一個行政法人的這個地位當中就是要比較重視到讓他的獨立性能夠呈現出來\n\n12\n00:04:40,574 --> 00:04:56,683\n這部分當然是非常尊重委員的一個建議跟發言因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意也要看對方尤其業界人士因為這個承擔這個地方我不去講因為那個任期是固定的\n\n13\n00:04:58,444 --> 00:05:15,135\n都是到五月的部分所以你們早就知道任期到這一屆的時候就會停止早就可以好好的物色了這部分尤其是那個理院部長的時候他去年就已經就任了有一年多的時間他可以去好好物色人才我想如果有文化界的人士他願意到這個文策院當董事長的話應該是非常樂意他能夠把文化界的這樣部分的意見呈現出來\n\n14\n00:05:20,319 --> 00:05:23,923\n好那下面我們再繼續看下去我就這部分我們好那我就再我再還是講我這邊部分好了文創的這個投資產業我們看到過去的這個一個態度的過去的集中這部分看到在103年的時候也是國發基金在投資您說的這也沒錯我們看到103年的時候\n\n15\n00:05:40,562 --> 00:06:08,404\n監察院111年的審計部跟110年預算中心他都呈現出來了過度集中在電影產業影視音的這部分那你們後來的時候呢這邊你自己國發會的黑潮企劃也提出來這樣的一個需求就是說應該要捐助到文字出版動漫跟傳統戲劇等等的那我現在最重要的再問的是說你們後來在自己的114年的文社院的營運目標當中也把它放進去但是才放到實案\n\n16\n00:06:09,465 --> 00:06:29,937\n非影視的部分才放實案這樣的情況那我們繼續往下看的時候那這樣的情況指標114年才做了這樣的一個部分那114年在做那個指標那你變更的原因我知道應該是也是被其他單位做了很多的一個糾正或是說要修訂的那我們繼續往下看的情況就是說\n\n17\n00:06:31,698 --> 00:06:50,083\n你們真的對於這些部分的時候有沒有的如果他針對這個影視業的產業的話不要過分集中在這個影視音樂部分的時候那你們的這個標準是什麼往下看就是說他們長期偏見那你們現在已經造成這個結果那要什麼樣的具體策略去達成\n\n18\n00:06:51,485 --> 00:07:07,014\n跟委員做一個說明影視其實文策院他不只在投資影視業他其實各個產業都會投資只是影視業他本來的投資成本就是他的製作成本就是比較高所以那個金額你會用金額來做\n\n19\n00:07:08,550 --> 00:07:24,664\n母數來做比例的話你會覺得它佔了很高的比例可是如果真的從案件數或者是比例上來講影視並沒有那麼樣的傾斜那當然我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通也一直鼓勵我們其他產業能夠努力的來接受投資的概念\n\n20\n00:07:26,605 --> 00:07:33,991\n具體我希望我到下一次的時候在這個部分跟我一年之後來去做這個檢討然後現在我們再繼續往下看就是世界遺產這部分剛才柯市問委員有提到這部分就是說我們沒有個應考資格這一部分的確是你怎麼繼續再說這個準備其實是沒有問題我覺得剛才也聽到一個很重要的點在於說您說你們跟外交部這些其他的教育部等等的都有在做這個推展\n\n21\n00:07:54,366 --> 00:08:08,302\n那這個部分想到的是說,那外交部,你們應該知道我們沒辦法變成UNESCO的最重要條約的簽約國、締約國等等最重要的原因是不是因為我們不是聯合國的會員國是的,那你知道我們要成為聯合國的最重要原因是什麼呢?\n\n22\n00:08:11,902 --> 00:08:26,081\n國際間的阻礙是什麼中國啊是中國對不對那中國這部分的時候如果是在這個情況之下這個部分所以必須國家的部分應該必須在這邊要做很大的一個很多的部分的調整啦那在正中央\n\n23\n00:08:26,121 --> 00:08:31,123\n我們剛才有聽到柯市委委員說如果外交部或是我們國家沒有把說怎麼樣去改善中國的關係的話這邊的話這是一個很重要的原因剛才也說了所以我想國家應該以這邊的中國關係的改善作為重點另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據我們看到在這個100年的時候朱明賢教授他有提到這邊就是說缺乏法律的一個依據\n\n24\n00:08:53,311 --> 00:09:09,956\n那這部份教授他提出來了應該建議是世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須要訂定的另外的呢這部份請問市長有沒有要求有沒有可以承諾在什麼時候應該要把一個願板提出來或是至少你們的布板要提到願板裡面去\n\n25\n00:09:10,914 --> 00:09:26,765\n跟委員做說明因為我們其實你要成為潛力點要成為我們這個潛力點他第一個他必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講國家森林法他都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後他才能夠談第二步的\n\n26\n00:09:28,506 --> 00:09:48,944\n請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎已經在這邊已經有修法了已經放進去內容了是嗎對啊就像剛剛我們森林鐵路它就是文化景觀它就是我們的文化資產法裡面所保護的也有法令地位的一個文化景觀但是這個景觀有跟這個世界文化生產遺址的部分有做連結的嗎\n\n27\n00:09:50,425 --> 00:09:56,370\n還是在所謂的文化資產保存法的條件當中對我們文資法裡面就是參考這個國際世界遺產的這個組織的類別來訂了所謂有文化景觀這樣的一個類別然後裡面要達到的標準會要求我們也都是參考了國際的一個規格在處理的好\n\n28\n00:10:08,619 --> 00:10:27,475\n希望剛才也問到財務的狀況包括我們說人員財務還有環境這邊因為一定要在條件上面說環境的規劃當中如果你們現在已經有這些的規劃的點這部分它是說在這個規劃點的至少往外擴一公里的地方它必須要做一些開始做保護了你們開始已經往這邊方向進行了嗎\n\n29\n00:10:30,106 --> 00:10:54,412\n關於整個就是受文資法保護的那個類似定著區的範圍要多大這個都靠審議委員會他們來做一個實地的勘查以後看這個狀況並不是在法令裡面直接去確定說你隨時你要怎麼如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話他只要提出申請在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話我們就會重新公告他的保護範圍\n\n30\n00:10:55,532 --> 00:10:59,196\n好這部分因為是根據這個世界遺產保護法裡面的這個這個條例這邊有提到這些內容啦希望是說依照國際你剛才講說有一個意涵是說讓我們知道國家有想要往這邊方向去做文化的資產的保護包括自然景觀的保護所以跟內政部跟這個\n\n31\n00:11:14,170 --> 00:11:29,560\n其他的我剛才有說的外交部這邊甚至我們整個國家的立場上面這部分整個都必須要以整體的說當這個目標是最很好的但是針對怎麼樣透過文化來去提升我們的遺產的這個保護呢去提升我們國際地位這是應該繼續再加強的包括未來我希望說我當然會繼續針對財務還有環境證包括篩房等等都有在做繼續的一個監督好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝劉淑冰委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9003\t11464\t有請次長再進入到申請世界遺產文化遺產的部分\n28737\t51346\t市長來討論一個問題這個跟文化部是有相關的 下一頁我們看到的是在這個叫做避拒原則避拒原則就是因為在文化的多元發展當中它非常的重要它要維護它的文化的自主跟文化的這樣子的一個特殊性那這部分它特別要排除掉一個屬於\n53607\t59389\t正式上面的干擾我們看到文化紀編法當中就提到在第21條當中有這些相關的條文比如說在文化部門在做相關的機構委託的時候必須要做到所謂的避拒原則是非常重要的那我們看到的是政前部長他在\n72873\t87396\t這個在107年也提到是說這個在有行政法人成立出來的時候呢必具原則是非常重要是能夠讓這樣子的一個文化的治理呢常擁有這個政治跟這個在文化當中呢必須要有它的一個專業知識體系那在這地方的話文創原則院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分必須要多元的這樣子的一個發展那我們再繼續看下一頁\n96958\t103483\t那這個時候呢我們看到的是今年的這一部分我們先問一下文策院是否也適應這個必具原則呢當然啊當然適用嘛對不對所以主要人事任命是否應該跟政治保持距離呢\n112341\t136072\t跟政治保持距離可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的一個管道這個本身你們自己在文策院當中就有文化部的代表文化部的這個理事在裡面的這部分就可以呈現出來那我們現在看過去的歷史經驗照您所說的部分過去曾經有\n136992\t165444\t三位的三位的但是在兩個任期當中的這個文策院的歷任董事長可是我們看到的是丁曉慶他後來是在正式完之後才卸任之後才轉任的彭俊亨他是曾任文化部的次長那後來的話因為被這部分呢他是有文化經歷但是我們看看蔡佳慶這部分剛剛的五月份卸任的這個情況他是業界的人士但是今年五月份上任的董事長呢\n166824\t192997\t文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎\n195097\t221252\t當然還是符合啦因為他現在是兼任他並不是去專任這個董事會的董事長他是以兼任的方式而且這個兼任最主要的目的是因為我們文策院的投資的這個基金是來自於國發會那國發會他撥了這個基金過來的時候他還是會有些很政策上面的一個要求跟我們在審慎每一個投資案的時候他希望我們要一個很完備的一個程序\n222373\t246086\t但你的意思是說過去的前面的兩任有三位的董事長在文化部任命的這個董事長中他們就沒有具備所謂文化政策的這個立函是嗎所以他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長所以他們了解文化政策跟政策方向跟整個文策院的\n247596\t272990\t這個投資裡面該怎麼處理 可是你本身就有一個理事在裡面喔那重點 董事在裡面 那我們現在重要的是難道台灣文化界就沒有其他合乎必具原則的非政務人員的人選嗎例如說像好名藝人先生啊這部分你事實上這樣子一個任命就是在踐踏 可能說是忽略我剛剛說回 說忽略到其他部分在文化界當中而且文策院當中本身就是一個行政法人的這個地位當中就是要比較重視到讓他的獨立性能夠呈現出來\n280574\t296683\t這部分當然是非常尊重委員的一個建議跟發言因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意也要看對方尤其業界人士因為這個承擔這個地方我不去講因為那個任期是固定的\n298444\t315135\t都是到五月的部分所以你們早就知道任期到這一屆的時候就會停止早就可以好好的物色了這部分尤其是那個理院部長的時候他去年就已經就任了有一年多的時間他可以去好好物色人才我想如果有文化界的人士他願意到這個文策院當董事長的話應該是非常樂意他能夠把文化界的這樣部分的意見呈現出來\n320319\t323923\t好那下面我們再繼續看下去我就這部分我們好那我就再我再還是講我這邊部分好了文創的這個投資產業我們看到過去的這個一個態度的過去的集中這部分看到在103年的時候也是國發基金在投資您說的這也沒錯我們看到103年的時候\n340562\t368404\t監察院111年的審計部跟110年預算中心他都呈現出來了過度集中在電影產業影視音的這部分那你們後來的時候呢這邊你自己國發會的黑潮企劃也提出來這樣的一個需求就是說應該要捐助到文字出版動漫跟傳統戲劇等等的那我現在最重要的再問的是說你們後來在自己的114年的文社院的營運目標當中也把它放進去但是才放到實案\n369465\t389937\t非影視的部分才放實案這樣的情況那我們繼續往下看的時候那這樣的情況指標114年才做了這樣的一個部分那114年在做那個指標那你變更的原因我知道應該是也是被其他單位做了很多的一個糾正或是說要修訂的那我們繼續往下看的情況就是說\n391698\t410083\t你們真的對於這些部分的時候有沒有的如果他針對這個影視業的產業的話不要過分集中在這個影視音樂部分的時候那你們的這個標準是什麼往下看就是說他們長期偏見那你們現在已經造成這個結果那要什麼樣的具體策略去達成\n411485\t427014\t跟委員做一個說明影視其實文策院他不只在投資影視業他其實各個產業都會投資只是影視業他本來的投資成本就是他的製作成本就是比較高所以那個金額你會用金額來做\n428550\t444664\t母數來做比例的話你會覺得它佔了很高的比例可是如果真的從案件數或者是比例上來講影視並沒有那麼樣的傾斜那當然我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通也一直鼓勵我們其他產業能夠努力的來接受投資的概念\n446605\t453991\t具體我希望我到下一次的時候在這個部分跟我一年之後來去做這個檢討然後現在我們再繼續往下看就是世界遺產這部分剛才柯市問委員有提到這部分就是說我們沒有個應考資格這一部分的確是你怎麼繼續再說這個準備其實是沒有問題我覺得剛才也聽到一個很重要的點在於說您說你們跟外交部這些其他的教育部等等的都有在做這個推展\n474366\t488302\t那這個部分想到的是說,那外交部,你們應該知道我們沒辦法變成UNESCO的最重要條約的簽約國、締約國等等最重要的原因是不是因為我們不是聯合國的會員國是的,那你知道我們要成為聯合國的最重要原因是什麼呢?\n491902\t506081\t國際間的阻礙是什麼中國啊是中國對不對那中國這部分的時候如果是在這個情況之下這個部分所以必須國家的部分應該必須在這邊要做很大的一個很多的部分的調整啦那在正中央\n506121\t511123\t我們剛才有聽到柯市委委員說如果外交部或是我們國家沒有把說怎麼樣去改善中國的關係的話這邊的話這是一個很重要的原因剛才也說了所以我想國家應該以這邊的中國關係的改善作為重點另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據我們看到在這個100年的時候朱明賢教授他有提到這邊就是說缺乏法律的一個依據\n533311\t549956\t那這部份教授他提出來了應該建議是世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須要訂定的另外的呢這部份請問市長有沒有要求有沒有可以承諾在什麼時候應該要把一個願板提出來或是至少你們的布板要提到願板裡面去\n550914\t566765\t跟委員做說明因為我們其實你要成為潛力點要成為我們這個潛力點他第一個他必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講國家森林法他都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後他才能夠談第二步的\n568506\t588944\t請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎已經在這邊已經有修法了已經放進去內容了是嗎對啊 就像剛剛我們森林鐵路它就是文化景觀它就是我們的文化資產法裡面所保護的也有法令地位的一個文化景觀但是這個景觀有跟這個世界文化生產遺址的部分有做連結的嗎\n590425\t596370\t還是在所謂的文化資產保存法的條件當中對 我們文資法裡面就是參考這個國際世界遺產的這個組織的類別來訂了所謂有文化景觀這樣的一個類別然後裡面要達到的標準會要求我們也都是參考了國際的一個規格在處理的好\n608619\t627475\t希望剛才也問到財務的狀況包括我們說人員財務還有環境這邊因為一定要在條件上面說環境的規劃當中如果你們現在已經有這些的規劃的點這部分它是說在這個規劃點的至少往外擴一公里的地方它必須要做一些開始做保護了你們開始已經往這邊方向進行了嗎\n630106\t654412\t關於整個就是受文資法保護的那個類似定著區的範圍要多大這個都靠審議委員會他們來做一個實地的勘查以後看這個狀況並不是在法令裡面直接去確定說你隨時你要怎麼如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話他只要提出申請在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話我們就會重新公告他的保護範圍\n655532\t659196\t好這部分因為是根據這個世界遺產保護法裡面的這個這個條例這邊有提到這些內容啦希望是說依照國際你剛才講說有一個意涵是說讓我們知道國家有想要往這邊方向去做文化的資產的保護包括自然景觀的保護所以跟內政部跟這個\n674170\t689560\t其他的我剛才有說的外交部這邊甚至我們整個國家的立場上面這部分整個都必須要以整體的說當這個目標是最很好的但是針對怎麼樣透過文化來去提升我們的遺產的這個保護呢去提升我們國際地位這是應該繼續再加強的包括未來我希望說我當然會繼續針對財務還有環境證包括篩房等等都有在做繼續的一個監督好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員\n","txt":"有請次長再進入到申請世界遺產文化遺產的部分\n市長來討論一個問題這個跟文化部是有相關的 下一頁我們看到的是在這個叫做避拒原則避拒原則就是因為在文化的多元發展當中它非常的重要它要維護它的文化的自主跟文化的這樣子的一個特殊性那這部分它特別要排除掉一個屬於\n正式上面的干擾我們看到文化紀編法當中就提到在第21條當中有這些相關的條文比如說在文化部門在做相關的機構委託的時候必須要做到所謂的避拒原則是非常重要的那我們看到的是政前部長他在\n這個在107年也提到是說這個在有行政法人成立出來的時候呢必具原則是非常重要是能夠讓這樣子的一個文化的治理呢常擁有這個政治跟這個在文化當中呢必須要有它的一個專業知識體系那在這地方的話文創原則院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分必須要多元的這樣子的一個發展那我們再繼續看下一頁\n那這個時候呢我們看到的是今年的這一部分我們先問一下文策院是否也適應這個必具原則呢當然啊當然適用嘛對不對所以主要人事任命是否應該跟政治保持距離呢\n跟政治保持距離可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的一個管道這個本身你們自己在文策院當中就有文化部的代表文化部的這個理事在裡面的這部分就可以呈現出來那我們現在看過去的歷史經驗照您所說的部分過去曾經有\n三位的三位的但是在兩個任期當中的這個文策院的歷任董事長可是我們看到的是丁曉慶他後來是在正式完之後才卸任之後才轉任的彭俊亨他是曾任文化部的次長那後來的話因為被這部分呢他是有文化經歷但是我們看看蔡佳慶這部分剛剛的五月份卸任的這個情況他是業界的人士但是今年五月份上任的董事長呢\n文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎\n當然還是符合啦因為他現在是兼任他並不是去專任這個董事會的董事長他是以兼任的方式而且這個兼任最主要的目的是因為我們文策院的投資的這個基金是來自於國發會那國發會他撥了這個基金過來的時候他還是會有些很政策上面的一個要求跟我們在審慎每一個投資案的時候他希望我們要一個很完備的一個程序\n但你的意思是說過去的前面的兩任有三位的董事長在文化部任命的這個董事長中他們就沒有具備所謂文化政策的這個立函是嗎所以他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長所以他們了解文化政策跟政策方向跟整個文策院的\n這個投資裡面該怎麼處理 可是你本身就有一個理事在裡面喔那重點 董事在裡面 那我們現在重要的是難道台灣文化界就沒有其他合乎必具原則的非政務人員的人選嗎例如說像好名藝人先生啊這部分你事實上這樣子一個任命就是在踐踏 可能說是忽略我剛剛說回 說忽略到其他部分在文化界當中而且文策院當中本身就是一個行政法人的這個地位當中就是要比較重視到讓他的獨立性能夠呈現出來\n這部分當然是非常尊重委員的一個建議跟發言因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意也要看對方尤其業界人士因為這個承擔這個地方我不去講因為那個任期是固定的\n都是到五月的部分所以你們早就知道任期到這一屆的時候就會停止早就可以好好的物色了這部分尤其是那個理院部長的時候他去年就已經就任了有一年多的時間他可以去好好物色人才我想如果有文化界的人士他願意到這個文策院當董事長的話應該是非常樂意他能夠把文化界的這樣部分的意見呈現出來\n好那下面我們再繼續看下去我就這部分我們好那我就再我再還是講我這邊部分好了文創的這個投資產業我們看到過去的這個一個態度的過去的集中這部分看到在103年的時候也是國發基金在投資您說的這也沒錯我們看到103年的時候\n監察院111年的審計部跟110年預算中心他都呈現出來了過度集中在電影產業影視音的這部分那你們後來的時候呢這邊你自己國發會的黑潮企劃也提出來這樣的一個需求就是說應該要捐助到文字出版動漫跟傳統戲劇等等的那我現在最重要的再問的是說你們後來在自己的114年的文社院的營運目標當中也把它放進去但是才放到實案\n非影視的部分才放實案這樣的情況那我們繼續往下看的時候那這樣的情況指標114年才做了這樣的一個部分那114年在做那個指標那你變更的原因我知道應該是也是被其他單位做了很多的一個糾正或是說要修訂的那我們繼續往下看的情況就是說\n你們真的對於這些部分的時候有沒有的如果他針對這個影視業的產業的話不要過分集中在這個影視音樂部分的時候那你們的這個標準是什麼往下看就是說他們長期偏見那你們現在已經造成這個結果那要什麼樣的具體策略去達成\n跟委員做一個說明影視其實文策院他不只在投資影視業他其實各個產業都會投資只是影視業他本來的投資成本就是他的製作成本就是比較高所以那個金額你會用金額來做\n母數來做比例的話你會覺得它佔了很高的比例可是如果真的從案件數或者是比例上來講影視並沒有那麼樣的傾斜那當然我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通也一直鼓勵我們其他產業能夠努力的來接受投資的概念\n具體我希望我到下一次的時候在這個部分跟我一年之後來去做這個檢討然後現在我們再繼續往下看就是世界遺產這部分剛才柯市問委員有提到這部分就是說我們沒有個應考資格這一部分的確是你怎麼繼續再說這個準備其實是沒有問題我覺得剛才也聽到一個很重要的點在於說您說你們跟外交部這些其他的教育部等等的都有在做這個推展\n那這個部分想到的是說,那外交部,你們應該知道我們沒辦法變成UNESCO的最重要條約的簽約國、締約國等等最重要的原因是不是因為我們不是聯合國的會員國是的,那你知道我們要成為聯合國的最重要原因是什麼呢?\n國際間的阻礙是什麼中國啊是中國對不對那中國這部分的時候如果是在這個情況之下這個部分所以必須國家的部分應該必須在這邊要做很大的一個很多的部分的調整啦那在正中央\n我們剛才有聽到柯市委委員說如果外交部或是我們國家沒有把說怎麼樣去改善中國的關係的話這邊的話這是一個很重要的原因剛才也說了所以我想國家應該以這邊的中國關係的改善作為重點另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據我們看到在這個100年的時候朱明賢教授他有提到這邊就是說缺乏法律的一個依據\n那這部份教授他提出來了應該建議是世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須要訂定的另外的呢這部份請問市長有沒有要求有沒有可以承諾在什麼時候應該要把一個願板提出來或是至少你們的布板要提到願板裡面去\n跟委員做說明因為我們其實你要成為潛力點要成為我們這個潛力點他第一個他必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講國家森林法他都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後他才能夠談第二步的\n請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎已經在這邊已經有修法了已經放進去內容了是嗎對啊 就像剛剛我們森林鐵路它就是文化景觀它就是我們的文化資產法裡面所保護的也有法令地位的一個文化景觀但是這個景觀有跟這個世界文化生產遺址的部分有做連結的嗎\n還是在所謂的文化資產保存法的條件當中對 我們文資法裡面就是參考這個國際世界遺產的這個組織的類別來訂了所謂有文化景觀這樣的一個類別然後裡面要達到的標準會要求我們也都是參考了國際的一個規格在處理的好\n希望剛才也問到財務的狀況包括我們說人員財務還有環境這邊因為一定要在條件上面說環境的規劃當中如果你們現在已經有這些的規劃的點這部分它是說在這個規劃點的至少往外擴一公里的地方它必須要做一些開始做保護了你們開始已經往這邊方向進行了嗎\n關於整個就是受文資法保護的那個類似定著區的範圍要多大這個都靠審議委員會他們來做一個實地的勘查以後看這個狀況並不是在法令裡面直接去確定說你隨時你要怎麼如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話他只要提出申請在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話我們就會重新公告他的保護範圍\n好這部分因為是根據這個世界遺產保護法裡面的這個這個條例這邊有提到這些內容啦希望是說依照國際你剛才講說有一個意涵是說讓我們知道國家有想要往這邊方向去做文化的資產的保護包括自然景觀的保護所以跟內政部跟這個\n其他的我剛才有說的外交部這邊甚至我們整個國家的立場上面這部分整個都必須要以整體的說當這個目標是最很好的但是針對怎麼樣透過文化來去提升我們的遺產的這個保護呢去提升我們國際地位這是應該繼續再加強的包括未來我希望說我當然會繼續針對財務還有環境證包括篩房等等都有在做繼續的一個監督好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.003 --> 00:11.464\n有請次長再進入到申請世界遺產文化遺產的部分\n\n00:28.737 --> 00:51.346\n市長來討論一個問題這個跟文化部是有相關的下一頁我們看到的是在這個叫做避拒原則避拒原則就是因為在文化的多元發展當中它非常的重要它要維護它的文化的自主跟文化的這樣子的一個特殊性那這部分它特別要排除掉一個屬於\n\n00:53.607 --> 00:59.389\n正式上面的干擾我們看到文化紀編法當中就提到在第21條當中有這些相關的條文比如說在文化部門在做相關的機構委託的時候必須要做到所謂的避拒原則是非常重要的那我們看到的是政前部長他在\n\n01:12.873 --> 01:27.396\n這個在107年也提到是說這個在有行政法人成立出來的時候呢必具原則是非常重要是能夠讓這樣子的一個文化的治理呢常擁有這個政治跟這個在文化當中呢必須要有它的一個專業知識體系那在這地方的話文創原則院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分必須要多元的這樣子的一個發展那我們再繼續看下一頁\n\n01:36.958 --> 01:43.483\n那這個時候呢我們看到的是今年的這一部分我們先問一下文策院是否也適應這個必具原則呢當然啊當然適用嘛對不對所以主要人事任命是否應該跟政治保持距離呢\n\n01:52.341 --> 02:16.072\n跟政治保持距離可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的一個管道這個本身你們自己在文策院當中就有文化部的代表文化部的這個理事在裡面的這部分就可以呈現出來那我們現在看過去的歷史經驗照您所說的部分過去曾經有\n\n02:16.992 --> 02:45.444\n三位的三位的但是在兩個任期當中的這個文策院的歷任董事長可是我們看到的是丁曉慶他後來是在正式完之後才卸任之後才轉任的彭俊亨他是曾任文化部的次長那後來的話因為被這部分呢他是有文化經歷但是我們看看蔡佳慶這部分剛剛的五月份卸任的這個情況他是業界的人士但是今年五月份上任的董事長呢\n\n02:46.824 --> 03:12.997\n文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎\n\n03:15.097 --> 03:41.252\n當然還是符合啦因為他現在是兼任他並不是去專任這個董事會的董事長他是以兼任的方式而且這個兼任最主要的目的是因為我們文策院的投資的這個基金是來自於國發會那國發會他撥了這個基金過來的時候他還是會有些很政策上面的一個要求跟我們在審慎每一個投資案的時候他希望我們要一個很完備的一個程序\n\n03:42.373 --> 04:06.086\n但你的意思是說過去的前面的兩任有三位的董事長在文化部任命的這個董事長中他們就沒有具備所謂文化政策的這個立函是嗎所以他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長所以他們了解文化政策跟政策方向跟整個文策院的\n\n04:07.596 --> 04:32.990\n這個投資裡面該怎麼處理可是你本身就有一個理事在裡面喔那重點董事在裡面那我們現在重要的是難道台灣文化界就沒有其他合乎必具原則的非政務人員的人選嗎例如說像好名藝人先生啊這部分你事實上這樣子一個任命就是在踐踏可能說是忽略我剛剛說回說忽略到其他部分在文化界當中而且文策院當中本身就是一個行政法人的這個地位當中就是要比較重視到讓他的獨立性能夠呈現出來\n\n04:40.574 --> 04:56.683\n這部分當然是非常尊重委員的一個建議跟發言因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意也要看對方尤其業界人士因為這個承擔這個地方我不去講因為那個任期是固定的\n\n04:58.444 --> 05:15.135\n都是到五月的部分所以你們早就知道任期到這一屆的時候就會停止早就可以好好的物色了這部分尤其是那個理院部長的時候他去年就已經就任了有一年多的時間他可以去好好物色人才我想如果有文化界的人士他願意到這個文策院當董事長的話應該是非常樂意他能夠把文化界的這樣部分的意見呈現出來\n\n05:20.319 --> 05:23.923\n好那下面我們再繼續看下去我就這部分我們好那我就再我再還是講我這邊部分好了文創的這個投資產業我們看到過去的這個一個態度的過去的集中這部分看到在103年的時候也是國發基金在投資您說的這也沒錯我們看到103年的時候\n\n05:40.562 --> 06:08.404\n監察院111年的審計部跟110年預算中心他都呈現出來了過度集中在電影產業影視音的這部分那你們後來的時候呢這邊你自己國發會的黑潮企劃也提出來這樣的一個需求就是說應該要捐助到文字出版動漫跟傳統戲劇等等的那我現在最重要的再問的是說你們後來在自己的114年的文社院的營運目標當中也把它放進去但是才放到實案\n\n06:09.465 --> 06:29.937\n非影視的部分才放實案這樣的情況那我們繼續往下看的時候那這樣的情況指標114年才做了這樣的一個部分那114年在做那個指標那你變更的原因我知道應該是也是被其他單位做了很多的一個糾正或是說要修訂的那我們繼續往下看的情況就是說\n\n06:31.698 --> 06:50.083\n你們真的對於這些部分的時候有沒有的如果他針對這個影視業的產業的話不要過分集中在這個影視音樂部分的時候那你們的這個標準是什麼往下看就是說他們長期偏見那你們現在已經造成這個結果那要什麼樣的具體策略去達成\n\n06:51.485 --> 07:07.014\n跟委員做一個說明影視其實文策院他不只在投資影視業他其實各個產業都會投資只是影視業他本來的投資成本就是他的製作成本就是比較高所以那個金額你會用金額來做\n\n07:08.550 --> 07:24.664\n母數來做比例的話你會覺得它佔了很高的比例可是如果真的從案件數或者是比例上來講影視並沒有那麼樣的傾斜那當然我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通也一直鼓勵我們其他產業能夠努力的來接受投資的概念\n\n07:26.605 --> 07:33.991\n具體我希望我到下一次的時候在這個部分跟我一年之後來去做這個檢討然後現在我們再繼續往下看就是世界遺產這部分剛才柯市問委員有提到這部分就是說我們沒有個應考資格這一部分的確是你怎麼繼續再說這個準備其實是沒有問題我覺得剛才也聽到一個很重要的點在於說您說你們跟外交部這些其他的教育部等等的都有在做這個推展\n\n07:54.366 --> 08:08.302\n那這個部分想到的是說,那外交部,你們應該知道我們沒辦法變成UNESCO的最重要條約的簽約國、締約國等等最重要的原因是不是因為我們不是聯合國的會員國是的,那你知道我們要成為聯合國的最重要原因是什麼呢?\n\n08:11.902 --> 08:26.081\n國際間的阻礙是什麼中國啊是中國對不對那中國這部分的時候如果是在這個情況之下這個部分所以必須國家的部分應該必須在這邊要做很大的一個很多的部分的調整啦那在正中央\n\n08:26.121 --> 08:31.123\n我們剛才有聽到柯市委委員說如果外交部或是我們國家沒有把說怎麼樣去改善中國的關係的話這邊的話這是一個很重要的原因剛才也說了所以我想國家應該以這邊的中國關係的改善作為重點另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據我們看到在這個100年的時候朱明賢教授他有提到這邊就是說缺乏法律的一個依據\n\n08:53.311 --> 09:09.956\n那這部份教授他提出來了應該建議是世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須要訂定的另外的呢這部份請問市長有沒有要求有沒有可以承諾在什麼時候應該要把一個願板提出來或是至少你們的布板要提到願板裡面去\n\n09:10.914 --> 09:26.765\n跟委員做說明因為我們其實你要成為潛力點要成為我們這個潛力點他第一個他必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講國家森林法他都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後他才能夠談第二步的\n\n09:28.506 --> 09:48.944\n請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎已經在這邊已經有修法了已經放進去內容了是嗎對啊就像剛剛我們森林鐵路它就是文化景觀它就是我們的文化資產法裡面所保護的也有法令地位的一個文化景觀但是這個景觀有跟這個世界文化生產遺址的部分有做連結的嗎\n\n09:50.425 --> 09:56.370\n還是在所謂的文化資產保存法的條件當中對我們文資法裡面就是參考這個國際世界遺產的這個組織的類別來訂了所謂有文化景觀這樣的一個類別然後裡面要達到的標準會要求我們也都是參考了國際的一個規格在處理的好\n\n10:08.619 --> 10:27.475\n希望剛才也問到財務的狀況包括我們說人員財務還有環境這邊因為一定要在條件上面說環境的規劃當中如果你們現在已經有這些的規劃的點這部分它是說在這個規劃點的至少往外擴一公里的地方它必須要做一些開始做保護了你們開始已經往這邊方向進行了嗎\n\n10:30.106 --> 10:54.412\n關於整個就是受文資法保護的那個類似定著區的範圍要多大這個都靠審議委員會他們來做一個實地的勘查以後看這個狀況並不是在法令裡面直接去確定說你隨時你要怎麼如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話他只要提出申請在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話我們就會重新公告他的保護範圍\n\n10:55.532 --> 10:59.196\n好這部分因為是根據這個世界遺產保護法裡面的這個這個條例這邊有提到這些內容啦希望是說依照國際你剛才講說有一個意涵是說讓我們知道國家有想要往這邊方向去做文化的資產的保護包括自然景觀的保護所以跟內政部跟這個\n\n11:14.170 --> 11:29.560\n其他的我剛才有說的外交部這邊甚至我們整個國家的立場上面這部分整個都必須要以整體的說當這個目標是最很好的但是針對怎麼樣透過文化來去提升我們的遺產的這個保護呢去提升我們國際地位這是應該繼續再加強的包括未來我希望說我當然會繼續針對財務還有環境證包括篩房等等都有在做繼續的一個監督好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝劉淑冰委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.003,"end":11.464,"text":"有請次長再進入到申請世界遺產文化遺產的部分"},{"start":28.737,"end":51.346,"text":"市長來討論一個問題這個跟文化部是有相關的 下一頁我們看到的是在這個叫做避拒原則避拒原則就是因為在文化的多元發展當中它非常的重要它要維護它的文化的自主跟文化的這樣子的一個特殊性那這部分它特別要排除掉一個屬於"},{"start":53.607,"end":59.389,"text":"正式上面的干擾我們看到文化紀編法當中就提到在第21條當中有這些相關的條文比如說在文化部門在做相關的機構委託的時候必須要做到所謂的避拒原則是非常重要的那我們看到的是政前部長他在"},{"start":72.873,"end":87.396,"text":"這個在107年也提到是說這個在有行政法人成立出來的時候呢必具原則是非常重要是能夠讓這樣子的一個文化的治理呢常擁有這個政治跟這個在文化當中呢必須要有它的一個專業知識體系那在這地方的話文創原則院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分必須要多元的這樣子的一個發展那我們再繼續看下一頁"},{"start":96.958,"end":103.483,"text":"那這個時候呢我們看到的是今年的這一部分我們先問一下文策院是否也適應這個必具原則呢當然啊當然適用嘛對不對所以主要人事任命是否應該跟政治保持距離呢"},{"start":112.341,"end":136.072,"text":"跟政治保持距離可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的一個管道這個本身你們自己在文策院當中就有文化部的代表文化部的這個理事在裡面的這部分就可以呈現出來那我們現在看過去的歷史經驗照您所說的部分過去曾經有"},{"start":136.992,"end":165.444,"text":"三位的三位的但是在兩個任期當中的這個文策院的歷任董事長可是我們看到的是丁曉慶他後來是在正式完之後才卸任之後才轉任的彭俊亨他是曾任文化部的次長那後來的話因為被這部分呢他是有文化經歷但是我們看看蔡佳慶這部分剛剛的五月份卸任的這個情況他是業界的人士但是今年五月份上任的董事長呢"},{"start":166.824,"end":192.997,"text":"文化部發布的命令是在這邊是文化部的政治王實施來兼任那這個部分當中跟過去的經歷是很不一樣的我們看到這個過去的經歷那文化部當時也遵守這樣的一個原則我們就往下看那這個時候我們現在看到跟過去的這個相比的時候呢王實施市長他在做這樣子的兼任到文策院的這個新任董事長你覺得他有更符合必具原則的法律要求嗎"},{"start":195.097,"end":221.252,"text":"當然還是符合啦因為他現在是兼任他並不是去專任這個董事會的董事長他是以兼任的方式而且這個兼任最主要的目的是因為我們文策院的投資的這個基金是來自於國發會那國發會他撥了這個基金過來的時候他還是會有些很政策上面的一個要求跟我們在審慎每一個投資案的時候他希望我們要一個很完備的一個程序"},{"start":222.373,"end":246.086,"text":"但你的意思是說過去的前面的兩任有三位的董事長在文化部任命的這個董事長中他們就沒有具備所謂文化政策的這個立函是嗎所以他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長所以他們了解文化政策跟政策方向跟整個文策院的"},{"start":247.596,"end":272.99,"text":"這個投資裡面該怎麼處理 可是你本身就有一個理事在裡面喔那重點 董事在裡面 那我們現在重要的是難道台灣文化界就沒有其他合乎必具原則的非政務人員的人選嗎例如說像好名藝人先生啊這部分你事實上這樣子一個任命就是在踐踏 可能說是忽略我剛剛說回 說忽略到其他部分在文化界當中而且文策院當中本身就是一個行政法人的這個地位當中就是要比較重視到讓他的獨立性能夠呈現出來"},{"start":280.574,"end":296.683,"text":"這部分當然是非常尊重委員的一個建議跟發言因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意也要看對方尤其業界人士因為這個承擔這個地方我不去講因為那個任期是固定的"},{"start":298.444,"end":315.135,"text":"都是到五月的部分所以你們早就知道任期到這一屆的時候就會停止早就可以好好的物色了這部分尤其是那個理院部長的時候他去年就已經就任了有一年多的時間他可以去好好物色人才我想如果有文化界的人士他願意到這個文策院當董事長的話應該是非常樂意他能夠把文化界的這樣部分的意見呈現出來"},{"start":320.319,"end":323.923,"text":"好那下面我們再繼續看下去我就這部分我們好那我就再我再還是講我這邊部分好了文創的這個投資產業我們看到過去的這個一個態度的過去的集中這部分看到在103年的時候也是國發基金在投資您說的這也沒錯我們看到103年的時候"},{"start":340.562,"end":368.404,"text":"監察院111年的審計部跟110年預算中心他都呈現出來了過度集中在電影產業影視音的這部分那你們後來的時候呢這邊你自己國發會的黑潮企劃也提出來這樣的一個需求就是說應該要捐助到文字出版動漫跟傳統戲劇等等的那我現在最重要的再問的是說你們後來在自己的114年的文社院的營運目標當中也把它放進去但是才放到實案"},{"start":369.465,"end":389.937,"text":"非影視的部分才放實案這樣的情況那我們繼續往下看的時候那這樣的情況指標114年才做了這樣的一個部分那114年在做那個指標那你變更的原因我知道應該是也是被其他單位做了很多的一個糾正或是說要修訂的那我們繼續往下看的情況就是說"},{"start":391.698,"end":410.083,"text":"你們真的對於這些部分的時候有沒有的如果他針對這個影視業的產業的話不要過分集中在這個影視音樂部分的時候那你們的這個標準是什麼往下看就是說他們長期偏見那你們現在已經造成這個結果那要什麼樣的具體策略去達成"},{"start":411.485,"end":427.014,"text":"跟委員做一個說明影視其實文策院他不只在投資影視業他其實各個產業都會投資只是影視業他本來的投資成本就是他的製作成本就是比較高所以那個金額你會用金額來做"},{"start":428.55,"end":444.664,"text":"母數來做比例的話你會覺得它佔了很高的比例可是如果真的從案件數或者是比例上來講影視並沒有那麼樣的傾斜那當然我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通也一直鼓勵我們其他產業能夠努力的來接受投資的概念"},{"start":446.605,"end":453.991,"text":"具體我希望我到下一次的時候在這個部分跟我一年之後來去做這個檢討然後現在我們再繼續往下看就是世界遺產這部分剛才柯市問委員有提到這部分就是說我們沒有個應考資格這一部分的確是你怎麼繼續再說這個準備其實是沒有問題我覺得剛才也聽到一個很重要的點在於說您說你們跟外交部這些其他的教育部等等的都有在做這個推展"},{"start":474.366,"end":488.302,"text":"那這個部分想到的是說,那外交部,你們應該知道我們沒辦法變成UNESCO的最重要條約的簽約國、締約國等等最重要的原因是不是因為我們不是聯合國的會員國是的,那你知道我們要成為聯合國的最重要原因是什麼呢?"},{"start":491.902,"end":506.081,"text":"國際間的阻礙是什麼中國啊是中國對不對那中國這部分的時候如果是在這個情況之下這個部分所以必須國家的部分應該必須在這邊要做很大的一個很多的部分的調整啦那在正中央"},{"start":506.121,"end":511.123,"text":"我們剛才有聽到柯市委委員說如果外交部或是我們國家沒有把說怎麼樣去改善中國的關係的話這邊的話這是一個很重要的原因剛才也說了所以我想國家應該以這邊的中國關係的改善作為重點另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據我們看到在這個100年的時候朱明賢教授他有提到這邊就是說缺乏法律的一個依據"},{"start":533.311,"end":549.956,"text":"那這部份教授他提出來了應該建議是世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須要訂定的另外的呢這部份請問市長有沒有要求有沒有可以承諾在什麼時候應該要把一個願板提出來或是至少你們的布板要提到願板裡面去"},{"start":550.914,"end":566.765,"text":"跟委員做說明因為我們其實你要成為潛力點要成為我們這個潛力點他第一個他必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講國家森林法他都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後他才能夠談第二步的"},{"start":568.506,"end":588.944,"text":"請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎已經在這邊已經有修法了已經放進去內容了是嗎對啊 就像剛剛我們森林鐵路它就是文化景觀它就是我們的文化資產法裡面所保護的也有法令地位的一個文化景觀但是這個景觀有跟這個世界文化生產遺址的部分有做連結的嗎"},{"start":590.425,"end":596.37,"text":"還是在所謂的文化資產保存法的條件當中對 我們文資法裡面就是參考這個國際世界遺產的這個組織的類別來訂了所謂有文化景觀這樣的一個類別然後裡面要達到的標準會要求我們也都是參考了國際的一個規格在處理的好"},{"start":608.619,"end":627.475,"text":"希望剛才也問到財務的狀況包括我們說人員財務還有環境這邊因為一定要在條件上面說環境的規劃當中如果你們現在已經有這些的規劃的點這部分它是說在這個規劃點的至少往外擴一公里的地方它必須要做一些開始做保護了你們開始已經往這邊方向進行了嗎"},{"start":630.106,"end":654.412,"text":"關於整個就是受文資法保護的那個類似定著區的範圍要多大這個都靠審議委員會他們來做一個實地的勘查以後看這個狀況並不是在法令裡面直接去確定說你隨時你要怎麼如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話他只要提出申請在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話我們就會重新公告他的保護範圍"},{"start":655.532,"end":659.196,"text":"好這部分因為是根據這個世界遺產保護法裡面的這個這個條例這邊有提到這些內容啦希望是說依照國際你剛才講說有一個意涵是說讓我們知道國家有想要往這邊方向去做文化的資產的保護包括自然景觀的保護所以跟內政部跟這個"},{"start":674.17,"end":689.56,"text":"其他的我剛才有說的外交部這邊甚至我們整個國家的立場上面這部分整個都必須要以整體的說當這個目標是最很好的但是針對怎麼樣透過文化來去提升我們的遺產的這個保護呢去提升我們國際地位這是應該繼續再加強的包括未來我希望說我當然會繼續針對財務還有環境證包括篩房等等都有在做繼續的一個監督好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":193,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時31分）有請次長。"],["主席：有請李次長。"],["李次長靜慧：委員早。"],["劉委員書彬：次長好。在進入申請世界文化遺產這部分，我先跟次長討論一個問題，這跟文化部是相關的。我們看到臂距原則，臂距原則在文化多元發展當中非常重要，要維護文化自主跟文化的特殊性，這部分大家特別要排除掉屬於政治上面的干擾。我們可以看到文化基本法第二十一條有這些相關條文，文化部在做相關的機構委託時，必須要做到所謂的臂距原則，這是非常重要的。","我們看到鄭前部長在107年也提到，在行政法人成立之後，臂距原則是非常重要的，透過文化治理，讓政治跟文化中必須要有它的專業支持體系。在這個地方，文策院的條例當中也呈現出這個部分，需要這樣子的多元發展。這時候我們看到今年這部分……先問一下，文策院是否也適用臂距原則呢？"],["李次長靜慧：當然。"],["劉委員書彬：當然適用，對不對，所以主要人事任命是否應該要跟政治保持距離呢？"],["李次長靜慧：跟政治保持距離，可是必須跟政策能夠維持一個相同的聯繫或者是一個溝通的管道。"],["劉委員書彬：你們本身在文策院當中就有文化部的代表、文化部的理事在裡面了，這部分就可以呈現出來。我們看一下過去的歷史經驗，照您所說的部分，過去曾經有三位在兩個任期當中的文策院歷任董事長，可是我們看到丁曉菁後來是政次卸任才轉任的；彭俊亨是曾任文化部次長，後來因為被……這部分他有文化經歷；我們看蔡嘉駿5月份卸任，他是業界人士；但是今年5月份上任的董事長，文化部發布的命令是文化部政次王時思來兼任，這與過去的經歷是很不一樣的。我們看過去的經歷，文化部當時也遵守這個原則，我們看到跟過去相比，王時思次長兼任文策院的新任董事長，你覺得他有更符合臂距原則的法律要求嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：當然還是符合，因為他現在是兼任，並不是去專任董事長，是以兼任的方式，而且這個兼任最主要的目的是文策院投資基金來自國發會，國發會撥基金過來時，還是會有些很政策上面的要求。我們在審慎審查每一個投資案時，它希望我們要有很完備的投資程序。"],["劉委員書彬：你的意思是說，過去前面兩任有三位由文化部任命的董事長中，他們就沒有具備文化政策的義涵，是嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：當然有，他們都曾經擔任過文化部的政務次長，所以他們瞭解文化政策方向跟整個文策院的投資該怎麼處理。"],["劉委員書彬：表示你們本身就有一個董事在裡面，今天重要的是，難道臺灣文化界就沒有其他合乎臂距原則的非政務人員人選嗎，譬如像郝明義先生？事實上，這樣的任命就是在踐踏，或者是忽略……我剛剛的收回，忽略其他部分在文化界當中，而且文策院當中本身就是行政法人的地位，就是要比較重視，讓它的獨立性能夠呈現出來，這邊的政治任命應該要排除，意思就是在這裡。"],["李次長靜慧：這個部分，我們當然非常尊重委員的建議跟發言，因為這個董事長不是我們想要他擔任他就願意，也要看對方，尤其是業界人士，因為承擔這個責任，業界人士不一定願意擔任……"],["劉委員書彬：這個地方我必須講，因為他們的任期是固定的，都是到5月，所以你們早就知道他們的任期到這一屆就會停止，早就可以好好物色了。這部分尤其是在李遠部長的時候，他去年就已經就任了，有一年多的時間可以去好好物色人才。我想如果有文化界的人士願意到文策院當董事長的話，應該是非常樂意，因為這樣才能把文化界這部分的意見呈現出來。","下面我們再繼續看下去，這部分我們……我還是講這部分好了，有關文創的投資產業，我們看到過去的態度是過度集中。可以看到103年的時候，也是國發基金在投資，您說的沒錯。我們看103年的監察院、111年的審計部跟114年的預算中心都呈現出過度集中在電影產業、影視音的這個部分。你們後來的時候，他也……這邊有國發會的查核，對黑潮計畫也提出這樣的需求，應該要兼顧文字出版、動漫跟傳統戲劇等等。","我現在最重要的問題是，你們後來自己在114年文策院的營運目標當中也把它放進去，但非影視的部分也才放了10案。這樣的情況我們繼續往下看，114年才做了這樣的指標，你們變更的原因，我不知道是不是被其他單位做了很多的糾正，或者是要修訂。我們再繼續往下看這個情況，你們真的對這些部分有沒有……如果要針對影視產業……不要過分集中在影視音的部分，你們的標準是什麼？也就是說，他們長期偏斜，現在你們已經造成這個結果，要用什麼具體的策略去達成？"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員做個說明，其實文策院不只投資在影視業，其實各個產業都會投資，只是影視業本來的投資成本、製作成本就是比較高，所以那個金額……你用金額作母數、作比例的話，你會覺得它占了很高的比例，可是如果真的從案件數，或者是從整個比例上來講，影視並沒有那麼樣地傾斜。當然，我們現在也一直在跟文策院溝通，也一直鼓勵其他產業能夠努力地接受「投資」這個概念。"],["劉委員書彬：好，如果是往這個方向發展的話，具體的部分希望我下一次再到這邊，一年之後再就這個部分檢討。","現在我們再繼續往下看，有關世界遺產這個部分，剛才柯志恩委員有提到，我們沒有應考資格，這部分的確是……繼續做這個準備其實是沒有問題的，我剛剛也聽到一個很重要的點在於，您說你們跟外交部、教育部等等都有在做推展，這個部分讓我想到，外交部……你應該知道我們沒有辦法變成UNESCO最重要的條約締約國，最重要的原因是不是我們不是聯合國的會員國？是的，那你知不知道我們沒辦法加入聯合國最大的原因是什麼？"],["李次長靜慧：我們不能夠……"],["劉委員書彬：國際間的阻礙是什麼？"],["李次長靜慧：中國啊！"],["劉委員書彬：是中國對不對？"],["李次長靜慧：對。"],["劉委員書彬：中國在這部分的時候……如果是在這個情況之下，國家必須在這邊做出很大的、很多部分的調整。在這種情況下，我們剛才聽到柯志恩委員說，如果外交部或我們國家沒有去改善與中國的關係的話，這邊……這是一個很重要的原理，剛才你也說了，所以我想國家應該要以與中國改善關係作為一個重點。","另外剛才也說了缺乏法律的依據，我們看到在100年的時候朱敏賢教授有提到，缺乏法律的依據，這部分是教授提出來的，應該建議世界文化及自然遺產保護法必須訂定。另外這部分，請問次長有沒有要求或可不可以承諾什麼時候應該要把一個院版提出來，或是至少把你們的部版提到院版裡面去？"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員說明，因為我們其實整個……你要成為潛力點、要成為我們的潛力點，第一個它必須要先有文資法或者是剛剛講的國家森林的那個法，都一定要先有另外一個法定的資格之後，才能夠談第二步的那個潛力點。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這部分……"],["李次長靜慧：所以我們文資法其實有做了一個妥善的……"],["劉委員書彬：請問現在的文化資產保存法有嗎？已經在那邊有修法了？已經放進內容了是嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：對啊！就像剛剛說的森林鐵路，它就是文化景觀，就是我們文化資產保存法中所保護的，也有法律地位的文化景觀。"],["劉委員書彬：但是這個景觀有跟申請世界文化遺產連結了嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：這個……"],["劉委員書彬：還是只存在於我們文化資產保存法的條件當中？"],["李次長靜慧：對，在我們的文資法裡面，就是參考國際世界文化遺產組織的類別而定出文化景觀的類別，裡面要達到的標準或要求，我們也都是參考國際的規格在處理。"],["劉委員書彬：好。剛才也問到財務的狀況，包括我們說的人員、財務還有環境這邊，就像上面說到的條件。在環境的規劃當中，如果你們現在已經有這些規劃的點，至少在這些規劃點往外擴1公里的地方必須開始做保護了，你們已經開始往這個方向進行了嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：關於整個受文資法保護類似定著區的範圍要多大，這個都靠審議委員會實地勘察以後看狀況，並不是在法律裡面直接去規定，你隨時要怎麼……如果他們有需要擴充範圍的話，只要提出申請，在我們的審議委員會裡面通過的話，我們就會重新公告它的保護範圍。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這部分因為是根據世界遺產保護法裡面的這個締約國……條例這邊有提到這些內容，希望移到國際……你剛才講，有一個意涵是說，讓我們知道國家想要往這邊發展，去做文化資產的保護，包括對自然景觀的保護，所以跟內政部，還有我剛剛說到的外交部，站在我們整個國家的立場上面，這部分整個都必須以整體的……把這個作為目標是很好的，但是針對怎麼透過文化提升我們對遺產的保護、提升我們的國際地位？這是應該要繼續加強的，包括未來我希望，當然我也會繼續針對財務還有環境，包括災防等等繼續監督，謝謝。"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員，次長請回。","接下來請葛如鈞召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","張雅琳","范雲","林沛祥","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","萬美玲","吳思瑤","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳培瑜","林月琴","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","葉元之","謝龍介","林倩綺"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部次長李靜慧列席，就「臺灣世界遺產潛力點推動現況，暨欲求申登世界遺產必先完善\n我國潛力點保存」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145701_00002"}}}