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00:00:03,910\n主席我請陳金德主委請主委主委早我想當然還沒有執行以前我特別提一個良心話我今天看到報紙也就是宜蘭險情\n\n2\n00:00:25,816 --> 00:00:50,412\n在我的看法因為我把你當成除了是一個監督單位主管之外我是把你當成好朋友所以我是覺得這樣啊報紙看完以後一喜則一憂一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭險情方面少一個勁敵那一憂啊就覺得\n\n3\n00:00:55,373 --> 00:01:09,312\n奇怪了民進黨的過去的官員都是這樣這個就是意義有的但是我還是要勉勵陳主委從你在工程會跟過去的表現\n\n4\n00:01:10,475 --> 00:01:24,374\n我對你是有信心啦那所以雖然這跟今天主題無關但是多少是跟感情有關所以我還要祈勉你再接再厲但是千萬千萬\n\n5\n00:01:26,296 --> 00:01:51,569\n當一天和尚敲一天鐘我也相信你兩位副主委是很強但是不要忘了你現在就是政務委員你現在就是工程會的主任委員因為一向我對工程會期待很高的我對工程會的寄望我是希望的我到處從當立委以後我都替你們叫屈\n\n6\n00:01:52,429 --> 00:02:10,458\n也就是在你們組織法過程當中我都替你們伸冤為什麼因為公共工程太多了陳天德跟工程會不能缺少的所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的所以但是我還要祈勉陳主委\n\n7\n00:02:11,938 --> 00:02:22,262\n雖然機會真大但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘工程會的事該做的一定要做我想主委你同意我這種說法吧謝謝委員的勉勵不過就我個人的生涯規劃我是\n\n8\n00:02:33,291 --> 00:03:01,510\n準備在工程會做滿四年好啦好啦這個反正光化跟真心話這個我會不會去計較啦但是我還是要其免當然因為我對你的行事風格跟做事情的這些貫徹我還是蠻期待的啦主委所以工程會該做的還是要做好那我現在還是回歸主題啦也就是碳排這個問題\n\n9\n00:03:03,271 --> 00:03:27,243\n碳排這個問題當然啦主管機關是環境部但是我們是工程單位的一個制定合約一個機關可是現在民主社會合約是非常重要所以我為什麼一開始非常支持你們單位就是這樣有統一的規劃合約總比\n\n10\n00:03:30,345 --> 00:03:45,604\n沒有好啦好沒有好你知道為什麼過去公共工程在整個合約部分會有一點雜亂可是經過你們啊把它統合以外現在已經把雜亂縮短到\n\n11\n00:03:48,074 --> 00:04:06,902\n極端的少了所以我還是期待啦就是碳排這個問題我們要未雨綢繆可是現在啊這個網路雖有啊但是內容空洞就會變成了文池館的意味所以主委\n\n12\n00:04:07,862 --> 00:04:22,561\n我是要拜託你碳排未來是一個歧視所以在整個網路的這些你要開始為以籌謀先有一個規劃那我相信在整個廠商\n\n13\n00:04:23,562 --> 00:04:50,324\n未來他在整個登錄方面他會有習慣性所以我建議現在應該要有假設性的這些操作不要說白在那裡不要說未來事情發生的你才來做這個事所以我還是期許工程會是主管整個合約裡面的主要的規範單位所以我還是希望針對這個\n\n14\n00:04:52,205 --> 00:05:07,313\n碳排的問題要稍微磨練那個演練一下以後大家會駕輕就熟所以主委你針對本席對於這些的建言你的看法是如何\n\n15\n00:05:07,873 --> 00:05:29,400\n建議委員這個意見非常好那我們陸續在建制的相關的包括碳排氣數的建立或者是範本等等我們會要求我們處裡面來根據委員的建立來試操作就一段時間試著操作才能夠發現哪些操作是\n\n16\n00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:41,484\n比較順的有些操作是不可能順的所以我們就用模擬的方式去做這種操作那未來廠商你們規劃出來一我們單位會鎖洗二\n\n17\n00:05:46,506 --> 00:06:05,778\n這些廠商會更熟悉如果是做到這樣就不會以現在情況我們只有設有這些網路設有這些機制但是你現在沒有啊所以它無法無法去做到盡善盡美這個部分\n\n18\n00:06:06,238 --> 00:06:32,398\n所以雖然啊因為你們已經有做這些網路已經在準備運作但是我認為啊效果是不髒的因為沒有演練就不會有熟悉所以我也希望啊這個理副主委應該要因為主委會比較忙這個你要去專責啊去做這些演練你一回聲二回首你之後擺在那邊等到事情發生了以後再來做我認為這個\n\n19\n00:06:34,740 --> 00:07:03,063\n嚴目求疑所以這些東西啊就會變成你們不熟悉然後廠商也不熟悉所以這個部分我是蠻建議主委督促之下副主委要去把它執行好那另外一個就是這些資訊公開真的要很重要啦好不好所以主委這是我我還蠻期待的好那接下來我還是特別啊要跟主委\n\n20\n00:07:04,559 --> 00:07:08,686\n談一些我非常重視的這些勞務的這些採購的規範\n\n21\n00:07:13,069 --> 00:07:36,226\n我非常重視不管是公安也好不管是勞工他的權利也好甚至於說我一直每一次執行我都擔心你在這裡忘記所以我不斷的提醒也就是勞工薪資的部分不能沒有勞工的權益也不能剝奪這是我希望你們在整個\n\n22\n00:07:38,228 --> 00:07:58,789\n規範裡面要把它寫得清清楚楚也就是不以違反勞工有關權利跟薪資基金的問題如果是這樣你們要用最嚴厲的方式不管是這些計分啊或者不准投標啊這等等東西廠商沒有什麼\n\n23\n00:07:59,950 --> 00:08:18,170\n不怕花錢但是怕的就是他不能去招標所以這點你要抓住廠商的弱點所以你要招標我也不要刻意去找你麻煩但是最起碼的話你一定廠商最怕的就是喪失招標資格\n\n24\n00:08:19,691 --> 00:08:28,480\n上司燒他這個所以這點我要建議主委就像現在今天這個北捷人家在抗議耶來下張圖片你看對不對他們為什麼這樣因為他的權力剝奪啦\n\n25\n00:08:35,237 --> 00:09:03,179\n但是我們只有去歸換一部分但是他的權益我們沒有放下去所以主委因為我每一次你可以去發現我對你的建言就是勞工的部分公安的部分權力的部分薪資的部分我非常重視所以像北捷這個問題我不曉得主委你看過以後你有因為我要強調就是說\n\n26\n00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:24,520\n他們特休只要做他們的工程不能特休這個就剝奪他的權利啊所以主委你看完這些他們的抗議你有什麼感想那想在工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去我也知道陳副主委跟你多有氣\n\n27\n00:09:25,541 --> 00:09:35,768\n委員建議的各項你們在六月份以前都會提到行政院去那我也希望這個部分也把它納進去所以主委你有什麼看法\n\n28\n00:09:37,129 --> 00:09:58,035\n這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購企業範本的這個規定來納入那我目前修正了政務採購法會將類似的企業範本修正成剛性的企業範本\n\n29\n00:09:58,795 --> 00:10:14,453\n那剛性的企業換本之後各採購機關他就必須遵行工程會的企業換本我們會在企業換本裡面要求各比方說這個相關的勞務在勞務採購裡面的所有人他必須薪資要\n\n30\n00:10:16,675 --> 00:10:32,827\n最低薪的1.1倍以上甚至更高的時候我們有利於他將來在進行其他標案採購的時候會有加分的機制這個也是一種社會企業責任有鼓勵有懲罰那我們會修正成剛性的企業範圍\n\n31\n00:10:34,488 --> 00:11:01,202\n這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助啦就像他現在其他他薪水他都有公安他都有重視但是勞工的權利他就負累啦因為我們沒有寫清楚所以要拜託城府主委在這個部分因為你們都寫法律的你們都比我們還懂但是我們發現問題提供給你我相信你們也會把他納進去這樣的話也就是統一換本他就\n\n32\n00:11:02,142 --> 00:11:17,008\n無法去逃避啦所以這樣的話我認為對於整個勞工對於合約的完整性會更圓滿更完整這樣好不好好所以拜託陳主委拜託陳副主委一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t3910\t主席我請陳金德主委請主委主委早我想當然還沒有執行以前我特別提一個良心話我今天看到報紙也就是宜蘭險情\n25816\t50412\t在我的看法因為我把你當成除了是一個監督單位主管之外我是把你當成好朋友所以我是覺得這樣啊報紙看完以後一喜則一憂一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭險情方面少一個勁敵那一憂啊就覺得\n55373\t69312\t奇怪了民進黨的過去的官員都是這樣這個就是意義有的但是我還是要勉勵陳主委從你在工程會跟過去的表現\n70475\t84374\t我對你是有信心啦那所以雖然這跟今天主題無關但是多少是跟感情有關所以我還要祈勉你再接再厲但是千萬千萬\n86296\t111569\t當一天和尚敲一天鐘我也相信你兩位副主委是很強但是不要忘了你現在就是政務委員你現在就是工程會的主任委員因為一向我對工程會期待很高的我對工程會的寄望我是希望的我到處從當立委以後我都替你們叫屈\n112429\t130458\t也就是在你們組織法過程當中我都替你們伸冤為什麼因為公共工程太多了陳天德跟工程會不能缺少的所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的所以但是我還要祈勉陳主委\n131938\t142262\t雖然機會真大但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘工程會的事該做的一定要做我想主委你同意我這種說法吧謝謝委員的勉勵不過就我個人的生涯規劃我是\n153291\t181510\t準備在工程會做滿四年好啦好啦這個反正光化跟真心話這個我會不會去計較啦但是我還是要其免當然因為我對你的行事風格跟做事情的這些貫徹我還是蠻期待的啦主委所以工程會該做的還是要做好那我現在還是回歸主題啦也就是碳排這個問題\n183271\t207243\t碳排這個問題當然啦主管機關是環境部但是我們是工程單位的一個制定合約一個機關可是現在民主社會合約是非常重要所以我為什麼一開始非常支持你們單位就是這樣有統一的規劃合約總比\n210345\t225604\t沒有好啦好 沒有好你知道為什麼過去公共工程在整個合約部分會有一點雜亂可是經過你們啊把它統合以外現在已經把雜亂縮短到\n228074\t246902\t極端的少了所以我還是期待啦就是碳排這個問題我們要未雨綢繆可是現在啊這個網路雖有啊但是內容空洞就會變成了文池館的意味所以主委\n247862\t262561\t我是要拜託你 碳排未來是一個歧視所以在整個網路的這些你要開始為以籌謀 先有一個規劃那我相信在整個廠商\n263562\t290324\t未來他在整個登錄方面他會有習慣性所以我建議現在應該要有假設性的這些操作不要說白在那裡不要說未來事情發生的你才來做這個事所以我還是期許工程會是主管整個合約裡面的主要的規範單位所以我還是希望針對這個\n292205\t307313\t碳排的問題要稍微磨練那個演練一下以後大家會駕輕就熟所以主委你針對本席對於這些的建言你的看法是如何\n307873\t329400\t建議委員這個意見非常好那我們陸續在建制的相關的包括碳排氣數的建立或者是範本等等我們會要求我們處裡面來根據委員的建立來試操作就一段時間試著操作才能夠發現哪些操作是\n330700\t341484\t比較順的有些操作是不可能順的所以我們就用模擬的方式去做這種操作那未來廠商你們規劃出來一我們單位會鎖洗二\n346506\t365778\t這些廠商會更熟悉如果是做到這樣就不會以現在情況我們只有設有這些網路設有這些機制但是你現在沒有啊所以它無法無法去做到盡善盡美這個部分\n366238\t392398\t所以雖然啊因為你們已經有做這些網路已經在準備運作但是我認為啊效果是不髒的因為沒有演練就不會有熟悉所以我也希望啊這個理副主委應該要因為主委會比較忙這個你要去專責啊去做這些演練你一回聲二回首你之後擺在那邊等到事情發生了以後再來做我認為這個\n394740\t423063\t嚴目求疑所以這些東西啊就會變成你們不熟悉然後廠商也不熟悉所以這個部分我是蠻建議主委督促之下副主委要去把它執行好那另外一個就是這些資訊公開真的要很重要啦好不好所以主委這是我我還蠻期待的好那接下來我還是特別啊要跟主委\n424559\t428686\t談一些我非常重視的這些勞務的這些採購的規範\n433069\t456226\t我非常重視不管是公安也好不管是勞工他的權利也好甚至於說我一直每一次執行我都擔心你在這裡忘記所以我不斷的提醒也就是勞工薪資的部分不能沒有勞工的權益也不能剝奪這是我希望你們在整個\n458228\t478789\t規範裡面要把它寫得清清楚楚也就是不以違反勞工有關權利跟薪資基金的問題如果是這樣你們要用最嚴厲的方式不管是這些計分啊或者不准投標啊這等等東西廠商沒有什麼\n479950\t498170\t不怕花錢但是怕的就是他不能去招標所以這點你要抓住廠商的弱點所以你要招標我也不要刻意去找你麻煩但是最起碼的話你一定廠商最怕的就是喪失招標資格\n499691\t508480\t上司燒他這個所以這點我要建議主委就像現在今天這個北捷人家在抗議耶來 下張圖片你看 對不對他們為什麼這樣因為他的權力剝奪啦\n515237\t543179\t但是我們只有去歸換一部分但是他的權益我們沒有放下去所以主委因為我每一次你可以去發現我對你的建言就是勞工的部分公安的部分權力的部分薪資的部分我非常重視所以像北捷這個問題我不曉得主委你看過以後你有因為我要強調就是說\n545000\t564520\t他們特休只要做他們的工程不能特休這個就剝奪他的權利啊所以主委你看完這些他們的抗議你有什麼感想那想在工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去我也知道陳副主委跟你多有氣\n565541\t575768\t委員建議的各項你們在六月份以前都會提到行政院去那我也希望這個部分也把它納進去所以主委你有什麼看法\n577129\t598035\t這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購企業範本的這個規定來納入那我目前修正了政務採購法會將類似的企業範本修正成剛性的企業範本\n598795\t614453\t那剛性的企業換本之後各採購機關他就必須遵行工程會的企業換本我們會在企業換本裡面要求各比方說這個相關的勞務在勞務採購裡面的所有人他必須薪資要\n616675\t632827\t最低薪的1.1倍以上甚至更高的時候我們有利於他將來在進行其他標案採購的時候會有加分的機制這個也是一種社會企業責任有鼓勵有懲罰那我們會修正成剛性的企業範圍\n634488\t661202\t這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助啦就像他現在其他他薪水他都有公安他都有重視但是勞工的權利他就負累啦因為我們沒有寫清楚所以要拜託城府主委在這個部分因為你們都寫法律的你們都比我們還懂但是我們發現問題提供給你我相信你們也會把他納進去這樣的話也就是統一換本他就\n662142\t677008\t無法去逃避啦所以這樣的話我認為對於整個勞工對於合約的完整性會更圓滿更完整這樣好不好好所以拜託陳主委拜託陳副主委一下好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席我請陳金德主委請主委主委早我想當然還沒有執行以前我特別提一個良心話我今天看到報紙也就是宜蘭險情\n在我的看法因為我把你當成除了是一個監督單位主管之外我是把你當成好朋友所以我是覺得這樣啊報紙看完以後一喜則一憂一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭險情方面少一個勁敵那一憂啊就覺得\n奇怪了民進黨的過去的官員都是這樣這個就是意義有的但是我還是要勉勵陳主委從你在工程會跟過去的表現\n我對你是有信心啦那所以雖然這跟今天主題無關但是多少是跟感情有關所以我還要祈勉你再接再厲但是千萬千萬\n當一天和尚敲一天鐘我也相信你兩位副主委是很強但是不要忘了你現在就是政務委員你現在就是工程會的主任委員因為一向我對工程會期待很高的我對工程會的寄望我是希望的我到處從當立委以後我都替你們叫屈\n也就是在你們組織法過程當中我都替你們伸冤為什麼因為公共工程太多了陳天德跟工程會不能缺少的所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的所以但是我還要祈勉陳主委\n雖然機會真大但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘工程會的事該做的一定要做我想主委你同意我這種說法吧謝謝委員的勉勵不過就我個人的生涯規劃我是\n準備在工程會做滿四年好啦好啦這個反正光化跟真心話這個我會不會去計較啦但是我還是要其免當然因為我對你的行事風格跟做事情的這些貫徹我還是蠻期待的啦主委所以工程會該做的還是要做好那我現在還是回歸主題啦也就是碳排這個問題\n碳排這個問題當然啦主管機關是環境部但是我們是工程單位的一個制定合約一個機關可是現在民主社會合約是非常重要所以我為什麼一開始非常支持你們單位就是這樣有統一的規劃合約總比\n沒有好啦好 沒有好你知道為什麼過去公共工程在整個合約部分會有一點雜亂可是經過你們啊把它統合以外現在已經把雜亂縮短到\n極端的少了所以我還是期待啦就是碳排這個問題我們要未雨綢繆可是現在啊這個網路雖有啊但是內容空洞就會變成了文池館的意味所以主委\n我是要拜託你 碳排未來是一個歧視所以在整個網路的這些你要開始為以籌謀 先有一個規劃那我相信在整個廠商\n未來他在整個登錄方面他會有習慣性所以我建議現在應該要有假設性的這些操作不要說白在那裡不要說未來事情發生的你才來做這個事所以我還是期許工程會是主管整個合約裡面的主要的規範單位所以我還是希望針對這個\n碳排的問題要稍微磨練那個演練一下以後大家會駕輕就熟所以主委你針對本席對於這些的建言你的看法是如何\n建議委員這個意見非常好那我們陸續在建制的相關的包括碳排氣數的建立或者是範本等等我們會要求我們處裡面來根據委員的建立來試操作就一段時間試著操作才能夠發現哪些操作是\n比較順的有些操作是不可能順的所以我們就用模擬的方式去做這種操作那未來廠商你們規劃出來一我們單位會鎖洗二\n這些廠商會更熟悉如果是做到這樣就不會以現在情況我們只有設有這些網路設有這些機制但是你現在沒有啊所以它無法無法去做到盡善盡美這個部分\n所以雖然啊因為你們已經有做這些網路已經在準備運作但是我認為啊效果是不髒的因為沒有演練就不會有熟悉所以我也希望啊這個理副主委應該要因為主委會比較忙這個你要去專責啊去做這些演練你一回聲二回首你之後擺在那邊等到事情發生了以後再來做我認為這個\n嚴目求疑所以這些東西啊就會變成你們不熟悉然後廠商也不熟悉所以這個部分我是蠻建議主委督促之下副主委要去把它執行好那另外一個就是這些資訊公開真的要很重要啦好不好所以主委這是我我還蠻期待的好那接下來我還是特別啊要跟主委\n談一些我非常重視的這些勞務的這些採購的規範\n我非常重視不管是公安也好不管是勞工他的權利也好甚至於說我一直每一次執行我都擔心你在這裡忘記所以我不斷的提醒也就是勞工薪資的部分不能沒有勞工的權益也不能剝奪這是我希望你們在整個\n規範裡面要把它寫得清清楚楚也就是不以違反勞工有關權利跟薪資基金的問題如果是這樣你們要用最嚴厲的方式不管是這些計分啊或者不准投標啊這等等東西廠商沒有什麼\n不怕花錢但是怕的就是他不能去招標所以這點你要抓住廠商的弱點所以你要招標我也不要刻意去找你麻煩但是最起碼的話你一定廠商最怕的就是喪失招標資格\n上司燒他這個所以這點我要建議主委就像現在今天這個北捷人家在抗議耶來 下張圖片你看 對不對他們為什麼這樣因為他的權力剝奪啦\n但是我們只有去歸換一部分但是他的權益我們沒有放下去所以主委因為我每一次你可以去發現我對你的建言就是勞工的部分公安的部分權力的部分薪資的部分我非常重視所以像北捷這個問題我不曉得主委你看過以後你有因為我要強調就是說\n他們特休只要做他們的工程不能特休這個就剝奪他的權利啊所以主委你看完這些他們的抗議你有什麼感想那想在工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去我也知道陳副主委跟你多有氣\n委員建議的各項你們在六月份以前都會提到行政院去那我也希望這個部分也把它納進去所以主委你有什麼看法\n這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購企業範本的這個規定來納入那我目前修正了政務採購法會將類似的企業範本修正成剛性的企業範本\n那剛性的企業換本之後各採購機關他就必須遵行工程會的企業換本我們會在企業換本裡面要求各比方說這個相關的勞務在勞務採購裡面的所有人他必須薪資要\n最低薪的1.1倍以上甚至更高的時候我們有利於他將來在進行其他標案採購的時候會有加分的機制這個也是一種社會企業責任有鼓勵有懲罰那我們會修正成剛性的企業範圍\n這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助啦就像他現在其他他薪水他都有公安他都有重視但是勞工的權利他就負累啦因為我們沒有寫清楚所以要拜託城府主委在這個部分因為你們都寫法律的你們都比我們還懂但是我們發現問題提供給你我相信你們也會把他納進去這樣的話也就是統一換本他就\n無法去逃避啦所以這樣的話我認為對於整個勞工對於合約的完整性會更圓滿更完整這樣好不好好所以拜託陳主委拜託陳副主委一下好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:03.910\n主席我請陳金德主委請主委主委早我想當然還沒有執行以前我特別提一個良心話我今天看到報紙也就是宜蘭險情\n\n00:25.816 --> 00:50.412\n在我的看法因為我把你當成除了是一個監督單位主管之外我是把你當成好朋友所以我是覺得這樣啊報紙看完以後一喜則一憂一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭險情方面少一個勁敵那一憂啊就覺得\n\n00:55.373 --> 01:09.312\n奇怪了民進黨的過去的官員都是這樣這個就是意義有的但是我還是要勉勵陳主委從你在工程會跟過去的表現\n\n01:10.475 --> 01:24.374\n我對你是有信心啦那所以雖然這跟今天主題無關但是多少是跟感情有關所以我還要祈勉你再接再厲但是千萬千萬\n\n01:26.296 --> 01:51.569\n當一天和尚敲一天鐘我也相信你兩位副主委是很強但是不要忘了你現在就是政務委員你現在就是工程會的主任委員因為一向我對工程會期待很高的我對工程會的寄望我是希望的我到處從當立委以後我都替你們叫屈\n\n01:52.429 --> 02:10.458\n也就是在你們組織法過程當中我都替你們伸冤為什麼因為公共工程太多了陳天德跟工程會不能缺少的所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的所以但是我還要祈勉陳主委\n\n02:11.938 --> 02:22.262\n雖然機會真大但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘工程會的事該做的一定要做我想主委你同意我這種說法吧謝謝委員的勉勵不過就我個人的生涯規劃我是\n\n02:33.291 --> 03:01.510\n準備在工程會做滿四年好啦好啦這個反正光化跟真心話這個我會不會去計較啦但是我還是要其免當然因為我對你的行事風格跟做事情的這些貫徹我還是蠻期待的啦主委所以工程會該做的還是要做好那我現在還是回歸主題啦也就是碳排這個問題\n\n03:03.271 --> 03:27.243\n碳排這個問題當然啦主管機關是環境部但是我們是工程單位的一個制定合約一個機關可是現在民主社會合約是非常重要所以我為什麼一開始非常支持你們單位就是這樣有統一的規劃合約總比\n\n03:30.345 --> 03:45.604\n沒有好啦好沒有好你知道為什麼過去公共工程在整個合約部分會有一點雜亂可是經過你們啊把它統合以外現在已經把雜亂縮短到\n\n03:48.074 --> 04:06.902\n極端的少了所以我還是期待啦就是碳排這個問題我們要未雨綢繆可是現在啊這個網路雖有啊但是內容空洞就會變成了文池館的意味所以主委\n\n04:07.862 --> 04:22.561\n我是要拜託你碳排未來是一個歧視所以在整個網路的這些你要開始為以籌謀先有一個規劃那我相信在整個廠商\n\n04:23.562 --> 04:50.324\n未來他在整個登錄方面他會有習慣性所以我建議現在應該要有假設性的這些操作不要說白在那裡不要說未來事情發生的你才來做這個事所以我還是期許工程會是主管整個合約裡面的主要的規範單位所以我還是希望針對這個\n\n04:52.205 --> 05:07.313\n碳排的問題要稍微磨練那個演練一下以後大家會駕輕就熟所以主委你針對本席對於這些的建言你的看法是如何\n\n05:07.873 --> 05:29.400\n建議委員這個意見非常好那我們陸續在建制的相關的包括碳排氣數的建立或者是範本等等我們會要求我們處裡面來根據委員的建立來試操作就一段時間試著操作才能夠發現哪些操作是\n\n05:30.700 --> 05:41.484\n比較順的有些操作是不可能順的所以我們就用模擬的方式去做這種操作那未來廠商你們規劃出來一我們單位會鎖洗二\n\n05:46.506 --> 06:05.778\n這些廠商會更熟悉如果是做到這樣就不會以現在情況我們只有設有這些網路設有這些機制但是你現在沒有啊所以它無法無法去做到盡善盡美這個部分\n\n06:06.238 --> 06:32.398\n所以雖然啊因為你們已經有做這些網路已經在準備運作但是我認為啊效果是不髒的因為沒有演練就不會有熟悉所以我也希望啊這個理副主委應該要因為主委會比較忙這個你要去專責啊去做這些演練你一回聲二回首你之後擺在那邊等到事情發生了以後再來做我認為這個\n\n06:34.740 --> 07:03.063\n嚴目求疑所以這些東西啊就會變成你們不熟悉然後廠商也不熟悉所以這個部分我是蠻建議主委督促之下副主委要去把它執行好那另外一個就是這些資訊公開真的要很重要啦好不好所以主委這是我我還蠻期待的好那接下來我還是特別啊要跟主委\n\n07:04.559 --> 07:08.686\n談一些我非常重視的這些勞務的這些採購的規範\n\n07:13.069 --> 07:36.226\n我非常重視不管是公安也好不管是勞工他的權利也好甚至於說我一直每一次執行我都擔心你在這裡忘記所以我不斷的提醒也就是勞工薪資的部分不能沒有勞工的權益也不能剝奪這是我希望你們在整個\n\n07:38.228 --> 07:58.789\n規範裡面要把它寫得清清楚楚也就是不以違反勞工有關權利跟薪資基金的問題如果是這樣你們要用最嚴厲的方式不管是這些計分啊或者不准投標啊這等等東西廠商沒有什麼\n\n07:59.950 --> 08:18.170\n不怕花錢但是怕的就是他不能去招標所以這點你要抓住廠商的弱點所以你要招標我也不要刻意去找你麻煩但是最起碼的話你一定廠商最怕的就是喪失招標資格\n\n08:19.691 --> 08:28.480\n上司燒他這個所以這點我要建議主委就像現在今天這個北捷人家在抗議耶來下張圖片你看對不對他們為什麼這樣因為他的權力剝奪啦\n\n08:35.237 --> 09:03.179\n但是我們只有去歸換一部分但是他的權益我們沒有放下去所以主委因為我每一次你可以去發現我對你的建言就是勞工的部分公安的部分權力的部分薪資的部分我非常重視所以像北捷這個問題我不曉得主委你看過以後你有因為我要強調就是說\n\n09:05.000 --> 09:24.520\n他們特休只要做他們的工程不能特休這個就剝奪他的權利啊所以主委你看完這些他們的抗議你有什麼感想那想在工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去我也知道陳副主委跟你多有氣\n\n09:25.541 --> 09:35.768\n委員建議的各項你們在六月份以前都會提到行政院去那我也希望這個部分也把它納進去所以主委你有什麼看法\n\n09:37.129 --> 09:58.035\n這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購企業範本的這個規定來納入那我目前修正了政務採購法會將類似的企業範本修正成剛性的企業範本\n\n09:58.795 --> 10:14.453\n那剛性的企業換本之後各採購機關他就必須遵行工程會的企業換本我們會在企業換本裡面要求各比方說這個相關的勞務在勞務採購裡面的所有人他必須薪資要\n\n10:16.675 --> 10:32.827\n最低薪的1.1倍以上甚至更高的時候我們有利於他將來在進行其他標案採購的時候會有加分的機制這個也是一種社會企業責任有鼓勵有懲罰那我們會修正成剛性的企業範圍\n\n10:34.488 --> 11:01.202\n這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助啦就像他現在其他他薪水他都有公安他都有重視但是勞工的權利他就負累啦因為我們沒有寫清楚所以要拜託城府主委在這個部分因為你們都寫法律的你們都比我們還懂但是我們發現問題提供給你我相信你們也會把他納進去這樣的話也就是統一換本他就\n\n11:02.142 --> 11:17.008\n無法去逃避啦所以這樣的話我認為對於整個勞工對於合約的完整性會更圓滿更完整這樣好不好好所以拜託陳主委拜託陳副主委一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":3.91,"text":"主席我請陳金德主委請主委主委早我想當然還沒有執行以前我特別提一個良心話我今天看到報紙也就是宜蘭險情"},{"start":25.816,"end":50.412,"text":"在我的看法因為我把你當成除了是一個監督單位主管之外我是把你當成好朋友所以我是覺得這樣啊報紙看完以後一喜則一憂一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭險情方面少一個勁敵那一憂啊就覺得"},{"start":55.373,"end":69.312,"text":"奇怪了民進黨的過去的官員都是這樣這個就是意義有的但是我還是要勉勵陳主委從你在工程會跟過去的表現"},{"start":70.475,"end":84.374,"text":"我對你是有信心啦那所以雖然這跟今天主題無關但是多少是跟感情有關所以我還要祈勉你再接再厲但是千萬千萬"},{"start":86.296,"end":111.569,"text":"當一天和尚敲一天鐘我也相信你兩位副主委是很強但是不要忘了你現在就是政務委員你現在就是工程會的主任委員因為一向我對工程會期待很高的我對工程會的寄望我是希望的我到處從當立委以後我都替你們叫屈"},{"start":112.429,"end":130.458,"text":"也就是在你們組織法過程當中我都替你們伸冤為什麼因為公共工程太多了陳天德跟工程會不能缺少的所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的所以但是我還要祈勉陳主委"},{"start":131.938,"end":142.262,"text":"雖然機會真大但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘工程會的事該做的一定要做我想主委你同意我這種說法吧謝謝委員的勉勵不過就我個人的生涯規劃我是"},{"start":153.291,"end":181.51,"text":"準備在工程會做滿四年好啦好啦這個反正光化跟真心話這個我會不會去計較啦但是我還是要其免當然因為我對你的行事風格跟做事情的這些貫徹我還是蠻期待的啦主委所以工程會該做的還是要做好那我現在還是回歸主題啦也就是碳排這個問題"},{"start":183.271,"end":207.243,"text":"碳排這個問題當然啦主管機關是環境部但是我們是工程單位的一個制定合約一個機關可是現在民主社會合約是非常重要所以我為什麼一開始非常支持你們單位就是這樣有統一的規劃合約總比"},{"start":210.345,"end":225.604,"text":"沒有好啦好 沒有好你知道為什麼過去公共工程在整個合約部分會有一點雜亂可是經過你們啊把它統合以外現在已經把雜亂縮短到"},{"start":228.074,"end":246.902,"text":"極端的少了所以我還是期待啦就是碳排這個問題我們要未雨綢繆可是現在啊這個網路雖有啊但是內容空洞就會變成了文池館的意味所以主委"},{"start":247.862,"end":262.561,"text":"我是要拜託你 碳排未來是一個歧視所以在整個網路的這些你要開始為以籌謀 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下張圖片你看 對不對他們為什麼這樣因為他的權力剝奪啦"},{"start":515.237,"end":543.179,"text":"但是我們只有去歸換一部分但是他的權益我們沒有放下去所以主委因為我每一次你可以去發現我對你的建言就是勞工的部分公安的部分權力的部分薪資的部分我非常重視所以像北捷這個問題我不曉得主委你看過以後你有因為我要強調就是說"},{"start":545,"end":564.52,"text":"他們特休只要做他們的工程不能特休這個就剝奪他的權利啊所以主委你看完這些他們的抗議你有什麼感想那想在工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去我也知道陳副主委跟你多有氣"},{"start":565.541,"end":575.768,"text":"委員建議的各項你們在六月份以前都會提到行政院去那我也希望這個部分也把它納進去所以主委你有什麼看法"},{"start":577.129,"end":598.035,"text":"這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購企業範本的這個規定來納入那我目前修正了政務採購法會將類似的企業範本修正成剛性的企業範本"},{"start":598.795,"end":614.453,"text":"那剛性的企業換本之後各採購機關他就必須遵行工程會的企業換本我們會在企業換本裡面要求各比方說這個相關的勞務在勞務採購裡面的所有人他必須薪資要"},{"start":616.675,"end":632.827,"text":"最低薪的1.1倍以上甚至更高的時候我們有利於他將來在進行其他標案採購的時候會有加分的機制這個也是一種社會企業責任有鼓勵有懲罰那我們會修正成剛性的企業範圍"},{"start":634.488,"end":661.202,"text":"這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助啦就像他現在其他他薪水他都有公安他都有重視但是勞工的權利他就負累啦因為我們沒有寫清楚所以要拜託城府主委在這個部分因為你們都寫法律的你們都比我們還懂但是我們發現問題提供給你我相信你們也會把他納進去這樣的話也就是統一換本他就"},{"start":662.142,"end":677.008,"text":"無法去逃避啦所以這樣的話我認為對於整個勞工對於合約的完整性會更圓滿更完整這樣好不好好所以拜託陳主委拜託陳副主委一下好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":198,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時25分）謝謝主席，我請陳金德主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早！"],["林委員國成：主委早！還沒有質詢以前我特別提一個良心話。我今天看到報紙，也就是宜蘭的選情，在我的看法，因為我除了把你當成是一個監督的單位主管之外，還把你當成好朋友，所以我是覺得看完報紙以後，一則以喜，一則以憂。一喜就是我們敬重的陳主委在整個宜蘭選情方面少一個勁敵，一憂就是覺得奇怪，民進黨過去的官員都是這樣，這個是一憂的。","我還是要勉勵陳主委，從你在工程會及過去的表現，我對你是有信心，雖然這跟今天的主題無關，但是多少跟感情有關，所以我還要期勉你再接再厲！但是千萬、千萬當一天和尚敲一天鐘，我也相信你的兩位副主委很強，但是不要忘了，你現在就是政務委員，你現在就是工程會的主任委員。","我一向對工程會期待很高的，我對工程會是寄望的，我從當立委以後，都到處替你們叫屈，也就是在你們組織法的修法過程當中，我都替你們申冤，為什麼？因為公共工程太多了，陳金德和工程會都不能缺少，所以基本上我是蠻支持工程會的。我還要期勉陳主委，雖然機會增大，但是不要忘了當一天和尚敲一天鐘，工程會的事，該做的一定要做。主委，你同意我這種說法吧！"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員的勉勵，不過就我個人的生涯規劃，我是準備在工程會做滿4年。"],["林委員國成：好啦！反正官話或真心話，我都不會去計較，但是我還是要期勉，因為我對你的行事風格及做事情的貫徹還是蠻期待的，主委，所以工程會該做的還是要做。","我現在還是回歸主題，也就是碳排這個問題，碳排這個問題當然主管機關是環境部，但是你們是一個制訂工程合約規範的機關，現在民主社會合約是非常重要，所以我為什麼一開始就非常支持你們單位就是這樣，有規劃統一的合約，總比沒有好。過去公共工程在整個合約部分有一點雜亂，可是經過你們統合以後，現在已經把雜亂縮到極端的少了，所以我還是期待針對碳排這個問題你們要未雨綢繆。現在相關的網路雖有，但是內容空洞，就會變成蚊子館的意味，主委，所以我是要跟你拜託，未來碳排是一個趨勢，所以在整個網路的部分，你要開始未雨綢繆，先有一個規劃，我相信未來廠商在整個登錄方面會有習慣性，所以我建議現在應該要有假設性的這些操作，不要只有擺在那裡，不要未來事情發生了，你才來做這個事。工程會是主管整個合約規範的主要單位，我還是希望針對這個碳排的問題你們要稍微演練一下，以後大家會駕輕就熟。主委，針對本席對於這些的建言，你的看法是如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員，這個意見非常好。現在我們陸續在建置相關的，包括碳排係數或者是範本等等，我們會要求處裡面根據委員的建議來試著操作，就一段時間試著操作，才能夠發現哪些操作是比較順的，哪些操作是不可行的……"],["林委員國成：對啦！一回生二回熟，所以……"],["陳主任委員金德：對，我們試著操作一段時間之後……"],["林委員國成：所以我們就用模擬的方式去做這種操作。未來你們規劃出來，一、我們單位會熟悉，二、這些廠商會更熟悉。現在的情況是你們只是設有這些網路、設有這些機制，但是沒有演練，所以這個部分無法做到盡善盡美，雖然你們已經有做這些網路、已經在準備運作，但是我認為效果是不彰的，因為沒有演練，就不會熟悉，所以我希望李副主委應該要專責去做這些演練，因為主委會比較忙。一回生二回熟，只是擺在那邊，等到事情發生以後再來做，我認為這個是緣木求魚，這些東西就會變成你們不熟悉，廠商也不熟悉，所以這個部分我是滿建議在主委的督促之下，副主委要去執行好。另外一個，這些資訊公開真的很重要，好不好？主委，這是我還滿期待的。","接下來我還是要特別跟主委談我非常重視的勞務採購規範，我非常重視，不管是工安也好，不管是勞工的權利也好，甚至於我每次質詢，都擔心你在這裡忘記，所以我不斷的提醒，也就是勞工薪資的部分不能沒有、勞工的權益也不能剝奪，這是我希望你們在整個規範裡面要寫得清清楚楚的，也就是不得有違反勞工有關權利及薪資積欠的問題。如果有，你們要用最嚴厲的方式，不管是影響計分或者不准投標等等東西，廠商不怕花錢，怕的就是他不能投標，你要抓住廠商的這一個弱點。他要投標，你也不要刻意找麻煩，但是最起碼廠商最怕的就是喪失投標資格，所以我要建議主委這一點。","就像今天人家在抗議北捷，他們為什麼這樣？因為他的權利被剝奪了！你們只有去規範一部分，但是他的權益你們沒有放下去。主委，你可以發現，我對你的建言，就是勞工的部分、工安的部分、權利的部分、薪資的部分，我非常重視。像北捷這個問題，我不曉得主委看過以後有什麼感想？我為什麼要強調？因為他們只要做他們的工作，不能特休，這個就剝奪他的權利啊！所以主委，你看完他們這些抗議有什麼感想？工程會在這裡同不同意把這些也列入進去？我也知道，副主委跟你都有去，委員建議的各項你們6月份以前都會提到行政院去，我希望也把這個部分納進去，主委，你有什麼看法？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是採購單位並沒有依照工程會2019年修正的勞務採購契約範本的規定來納入，目前修正的政府採購法會將類似的契約範本修正成剛性的契約範本，修正成剛性的契約範本之後，各採購機關就必須遵循工程會的契約範本，我們會在契約範本裡面要求，比方說，在勞務採購裡面的所有人，薪資必須要在最低薪資的1.1倍以上，甚至更高的時候，將來在它進行其他標案採購的時候，會有加分的機制，這個也是一種社會企業責任。"],["林委員國成：對，有鼓勵、有懲罰。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們會修正成剛性的契約範本。"],["林委員國成：這樣的話對勞工才會有所幫助，就像它現在其他的部分都有做到，薪水、工安都有重視，但是勞工的權利它就忽略了，就是因為我們沒有寫清楚，所以要拜託陳主委，因為你們都是學法律的，你們都比我們還懂，但是我們發現問題提供給你，我相信你們也會把它納進去，統一範本的話，它就無法去逃避，我認為這樣對於整個合約的完整性會更圓滿、更完整，這樣好不好？拜託陳主委、拜託副主委，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員金德：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請李昆澤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-14","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","魯明哲","陳素月","徐富癸","蔡其昌","何欣純","黃健豪","邱若華","鍾佳濱","游顥","廖先翔"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2025-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員徐欣瑩等18人、二、委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具「技師法第十一條條文修正草案」\n及三、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人擬具「技師法第十一條及第四十二條條文修正草\n案」案【本日會議僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1145701_00003"}}}