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536.219, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 536.219, \"end\": 536.319, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 536.319, \"end\": 536.519, \"score\": 0.473}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 536.519, \"end\": 536.619, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 536.619, \"end\": 536.639, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 536.639, \"end\": 536.739, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 536.739, \"end\": 536.879, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 536.879, \"end\": 536.899, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"雷\", \"start\": 536.899, \"end\": 536.919, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 552.671, \"end\": 574.181, \"text\": \"所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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00:00:38,415\n主委好其他的主管好我想今天來請教不只是您是主委您也是政委我提到川普的關稅政策重視飛鴻供應鏈那麼政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來保查韌性我們現在看川普政策大家都了解其實在上個月4月到5月我們在經濟委員會在關心一題\n\n3\n00:00:39,605 --> 00:00:55,070\n在台灣的汽車因為美國他的關稅的關係他認為只要是有中國成本35%的修飾為中國車要刻意非常高的關稅甚至禁止進口但是在我們台灣經濟部的規定\n\n4\n00:00:56,980 --> 00:01:17,846\n我們的整車產業它事實上它的自治率要逐年調高到35%今年8月以後才到30%甚至我們知道台灣的整車廠它的很多零組件是來自於對岸因此就有委員質疑說那這樣的車子能符合美國對於飛鴻供應鏈的要求嗎主委你認為可不可以通得過這可能要請教美國吧\n\n5\n00:01:22,293 --> 00:01:48,922\n是你要請教一下打電話給您但是呢我得到進步的答案是說台灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場的啦因為台灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力所以我們這樣的設置雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣但是呢不受影響好了但是呢台灣的供應鏈有很多來自中國或者是中國以外的第三地那這樣的一個組成的產品\n\n6\n00:01:49,722 --> 00:01:53,043\n甚至來到台灣組裝可以供應給台灣的本國市場嗎這四位是副主委好陳副主委對不起喂你好那個我想公共工程是只有在主管在有關政府採購的部分是的這有些要問你的下一題對所以我們的理解應該是從政府採購的部分那因為我們有加入GPA嘛\n\n7\n00:02:16,073 --> 00:02:44,363\n那原則上它有一個原產地的原則啦那這種非成員國的這個產品到底它經過什麼樣的一個資質轉換才會改變成是它產地別啊那這個這部分的主管機關據我所知應該是在財政部它有一個認定的辦法那是稅的問題海關的認定問題這我知道我在財政委員會好我們看下一題既然你說政府採購我就要問政府採購其實政府採購呢它其實\n\n8\n00:02:45,765 --> 00:03:11,633\n美方關鍵的是飛鴻但是我發現我們政府關鍵的是台製國製譬如說政府補助如果是經濟部關鍵的領主件你要符合滿足我對這產業關鍵的領主件的我才給你補助這合理嘛對不對我政府要給你的錢必須你滿足我的政策要求主委是不是這樣子所以政府補助要求要參與的業者你必須滿足我的正面表列我才給你同不同意\n\n9\n00:03:12,489 --> 00:03:28,350\n我想這是經濟部的業務啦那他如果符合經濟部的相關規定我現在要問的是政府採購但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商是限本國國產製品嗎可不可以可以限嗎\n\n10\n00:03:30,489 --> 00:03:44,616\n啊你怎麼認定它是國產製品就是你說的財政部的只要財政部認定是就是是你們是這樣的標準嘛對不對好但是主委現在開始進入深水區了我們可以要求自治率嗎你的公共採購可以要求自治率嗎非GPS的也可以要求自治率好那我可以要求你的供應的產品關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎\n\n11\n00:03:57,776 --> 00:04:14,008\n好那我先問一個有關於資安的晶片你們是把它放在哪個資安資訊產品是要求自製力還是要求國產製品還是要求你的這些有含有晶片的工程機具必須不得有中國的零組件的晶片可以要求嗎\n\n12\n00:04:17,861 --> 00:04:36,239\n好部長其實我今天要來談的是什麼呢就是在公共工程的採購當中啊其實我們的合約因為有其他的WTO的一些規範我們不能製造一些非關稅的障礙因此呢我們必須對有能力的全世界的廠商提供開放但是\n\n13\n00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:58,004\n有正當理由的時候我們還是可以限定譬如說我們的採購的財貨如果說有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題譬如說這個產品是中國供應的這個零組件是中國供應的但是呢一旦他不供應了我就買不到了那因此一開始我就不跟你買可不可以這樣子供應鏈韌性的部分副主委完全沒有關係\n\n14\n00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:32,278\n所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白的把各種的要求都排除中國的產製的零組件可以嗎那就是看那個目的世界主管機關他採購機關的需求那合約上面都可以限都可以要求所以要拜託主委也拜託政委現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約他其實是一個標準的套裝但是在因應著各個機關我上次有問過要有一個減核表\n\n15\n00:05:33,118 --> 00:05:55,746\n有些不同的機敏設施有些不同的勞務採購我們要嚴防治安的風險嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們的服務的一些威脅所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約的模組的時候請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組\n\n16\n00:05:56,906 --> 00:06:14,812\n或者你可以要求他全部限定是國產製品或者你要求他要有一定的自製率或者你要求他在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的或者是必須用本國產地的尤其是像晶片像資安甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的舉例來講\n\n17\n00:06:17,873 --> 00:06:32,917\n電動車電動車目前我們的政府採購合約裡面並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造我們都知道電動車的市場裡面電池中國是個最大的可能也是做得最多最好的也有可能所以要用有競爭力的電動車多半會採用中國的電池\n\n18\n00:06:36,098 --> 00:06:52,298\n但是因為採購合約裡面沒有限制因此得標廠商得標之後往往面臨一個困局他能得標表示他的CP值很高他可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成但是一旦沒有得標廠商來檢舉說他怎麼用重核電池\n\n19\n00:06:53,612 --> 00:07:11,181\n工程會能夠裁說這個合約無效嗎不行啊但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾你買了電動車結果裡面電子是中國製的這個輿論披露還得了嗎這個不見得是我們的契約精神但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突\n\n20\n00:07:12,662 --> 00:07:22,316\n所以我要請主委也請政委這個部分拜託工程會開始去做我們所有公共政府採購相關合約不管是勞務採購還是設備採購還是工程採購可以將這些模組研發出來\n\n21\n00:07:30,202 --> 00:07:55,052\n政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據那至於機關他需要什麼不需要什麼機關他會記恆佐那關於是不是中置產品中資等等採購法以及相關規定或者是機敏的國安採購對相關的管制跟規定那我們也正在修正相關的來\n\n22\n00:07:56,472 --> 00:08:17,652\n工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他需要什麼去把它建立一個模組說你可以要這個不要那個我們在採購法是提供給大家來採購就我們就法律的修正原則性的來修正是可以能夠達到委員這個希望的這樣的要求啦謝謝主委因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於\n\n23\n00:08:18,533 --> 00:08:43,550\n政府採購當中的一個參與者我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務包括評審名單等等等所以我要求的也不是說我們幫使用機關的政府做決定而是說我們幫他讓他提醒他有個檢核的表對於採購契約的限制條款有哪些是可以他們去應用去思考的不是幫他們訂定採購合約而是建議他們再有一個指引\n\n24\n00:08:44,270 --> 00:08:56,919\n我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引然後呢在這個指引當中特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈的韌性所謂的供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的或是會不時的斷貨就是說任意斷貨不符合契約精神但是造成我們使用方的困擾的類似這種狀況的條款我們給它充實或者提供指引那幫助很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發他也不曉得買這個東西會有這個地雷\n\n25\n00:09:12,671 --> 00:09:34,181\n所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t12721\t主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳主任委員請主委跟公共工程採購的部分的主管也可以請上來\n16589\t38415\t主委好 其他的主管好我想今天來請教不只是您是主委 您也是政委我提到川普的關稅政策重視飛鴻供應鏈那麼政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來保查韌性我們現在看川普政策大家都了解其實在上個月4月到5月我們在經濟委員會在關心一題\n39605\t55070\t在台灣的汽車因為美國他的關稅的關係他認為只要是有中國成本35%的修飾為中國車要刻意非常高的關稅甚至禁止進口但是在我們台灣經濟部的規定\n56980\t77846\t我們的整車產業它事實上它的自治率要逐年調高到35%今年8月以後才到30%甚至我們知道台灣的整車廠它的很多零組件是來自於對岸因此就有委員質疑說那這樣的車子能符合美國對於飛鴻供應鏈的要求嗎主委你認為可不可以通得過這可能要請教美國吧\n82293\t108922\t是 你要請教一下 打電話給您但是呢 我得到進步的答案是說台灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場的啦因為台灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力所以我們這樣的設置雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣但是呢 不受影響好了 但是呢台灣的供應鏈有很多來自中國或者是中國以外的第三地那這樣的一個組成的產品\n109722\t113043\t甚至來到台灣組裝 可以供應給台灣的本國市場嗎這四位是 副主委好 陳副主委對不起喂你好 那個我想公共工程是只有在主管在有關政府採購的部分是的 這有些要問你的下一題對 所以我們的理解應該是從政府採購的部分那因為我們有加入GPA嘛\n136073\t164363\t那原則上它有一個原產地的原則啦那這種非成員國的這個產品到底它經過什麼樣的一個資質轉換才會改變成是它產地別啊那這個這部分的主管機關據我所知應該是在財政部它有一個認定的辦法那是稅的問題海關的認定問題這我知道我在財政委員會好我們看下一題既然你說政府採購我就要問政府採購其實政府採購呢它其實\n165765\t191633\t美方關鍵的是飛鴻但是我發現我們政府關鍵的是台製 國製譬如說政府補助如果是經濟部關鍵的領主件你要符合滿足我對這產業關鍵的領主件的我才給你補助 這合理嘛對不對 我政府要給你的錢必須你滿足我的政策要求主委是不是這樣子所以政府補助要求要參與的業者你必須滿足我的正面表列我才給你 同不同意\n192489\t208350\t我想這是經濟部的業務啦那他如果符合經濟部的相關規定我現在要問的是政府採購但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商是限本國國產製品嗎可不可以可以限嗎\n210489\t224616\t啊你怎麼認定它是國產製品就是你說的財政部的只要財政部認定是就是是你們是這樣的標準嘛對不對好但是主委現在開始進入深水區了我們可以要求自治率嗎你的公共採購可以要求自治率嗎非GPS的也可以要求自治率好那我可以要求你的供應的產品關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎\n237776\t254008\t好那我先問一個有關於資安的晶片你們是把它放在哪個資安資訊產品是要求自製力還是要求國產製品還是要求你的這些有含有晶片的工程機具必須不得有中國的零組件的晶片可以要求嗎\n257861\t276239\t好部長其實我今天要來談的是什麼呢就是在公共工程的採購當中啊其實我們的合約因為有其他的WTO的一些規範我們不能製造一些非關稅的障礙因此呢我們必須對有能力的全世界的廠商提供開放但是\n277020\t298004\t有正當理由的時候我們還是可以限定譬如說我們的採購的財貨如果說有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題譬如說這個產品是中國供應的這個零組件是中國供應的但是呢一旦他不供應了我就買不到了那因此一開始我就不跟你買可不可以這樣子供應鏈韌性的部分 副主委完全沒有關係\n305839\t332278\t所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白的把各種的要求都排除中國的產製的零組件可以嗎那就是看那個目的世界主管機關他採購機關的需求那合約上面都可以限都可以要求所以要拜託主委也拜託政委現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約他其實是一個標準的套裝但是在因應著各個機關我上次有問過要有一個減核表\n333118\t355746\t有些不同的機敏設施有些不同的勞務採購我們要嚴防治安的風險嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們的服務的一些威脅所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約的模組的時候請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組\n356906\t374812\t或者你可以要求他全部限定是國產製品或者你要求他要有一定的自製率或者你要求他在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的或者是必須用本國產地的尤其是像晶片像資安甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的舉例來講\n377873\t392917\t電動車電動車目前我們的政府採購合約裡面並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造我們都知道電動車的市場裡面電池中國是個最大的可能也是做得最多最好的也有可能所以要用有競爭力的電動車多半會採用中國的電池\n396098\t412298\t但是因為採購合約裡面沒有限制因此得標廠商得標之後往往面臨一個困局他能得標表示他的CP值很高他可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成但是一旦沒有得標廠商來檢舉說他怎麼用重核電池\n413612\t431181\t工程會能夠裁說這個合約無效嗎不行啊但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾你買了電動車結果裡面電子是中國製的這個輿論披露還得了嗎這個不見得是我們的契約精神但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突\n432662\t442316\t所以我要請主委也請政委這個部分拜託工程會開始去做我們所有公共政府採購相關合約不管是勞務採購還是設備採購還是工程採購可以將這些模組研發出來\n450202\t475052\t政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據那至於機關他需要什麼不需要什麼機關他會記恆佐那關於是不是中置產品中資等等採購法以及相關規定或者是機敏的國安採購對相關的管制跟規定那我們也正在修正相關的來\n476472\t497652\t工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他需要什麼去把它建立一個模組說你可以要這個不要那個我們在採購法是提供給大家來採購就我們就法律的修正原則性的來修正是可以能夠達到委員這個希望的這樣的要求啦謝謝主委因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於\n498533\t523550\t政府採購當中的一個參與者我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務包括評審名單等等等所以我要求的也不是說我們幫使用機關的政府做決定而是說我們幫他讓他提醒他有個檢核的表對於採購契約的限制條款有哪些是可以他們去應用去思考的不是幫他們訂定採購合約而是建議他們再有一個指引\n524270\t536919\t我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引然後呢在這個指引當中特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈的韌性所謂的供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的或是會不時的斷貨就是說任意斷貨不符合契約精神但是造成我們使用方的困擾的類似這種狀況的條款我們給它充實或者提供指引那幫助很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發他也不曉得買這個東西會有這個地雷\n552671\t574181\t所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席\n","txt":"主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳主任委員請主委跟公共工程採購的部分的主管也可以請上來\n主委好 其他的主管好我想今天來請教不只是您是主委 您也是政委我提到川普的關稅政策重視飛鴻供應鏈那麼政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來保查韌性我們現在看川普政策大家都了解其實在上個月4月到5月我們在經濟委員會在關心一題\n在台灣的汽車因為美國他的關稅的關係他認為只要是有中國成本35%的修飾為中國車要刻意非常高的關稅甚至禁止進口但是在我們台灣經濟部的規定\n我們的整車產業它事實上它的自治率要逐年調高到35%今年8月以後才到30%甚至我們知道台灣的整車廠它的很多零組件是來自於對岸因此就有委員質疑說那這樣的車子能符合美國對於飛鴻供應鏈的要求嗎主委你認為可不可以通得過這可能要請教美國吧\n是 你要請教一下 打電話給您但是呢 我得到進步的答案是說台灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場的啦因為台灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力所以我們這樣的設置雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣但是呢 不受影響好了 但是呢台灣的供應鏈有很多來自中國或者是中國以外的第三地那這樣的一個組成的產品\n甚至來到台灣組裝 可以供應給台灣的本國市場嗎這四位是 副主委好 陳副主委對不起喂你好 那個我想公共工程是只有在主管在有關政府採購的部分是的 這有些要問你的下一題對 所以我們的理解應該是從政府採購的部分那因為我們有加入GPA嘛\n那原則上它有一個原產地的原則啦那這種非成員國的這個產品到底它經過什麼樣的一個資質轉換才會改變成是它產地別啊那這個這部分的主管機關據我所知應該是在財政部它有一個認定的辦法那是稅的問題海關的認定問題這我知道我在財政委員會好我們看下一題既然你說政府採購我就要問政府採購其實政府採購呢它其實\n美方關鍵的是飛鴻但是我發現我們政府關鍵的是台製 國製譬如說政府補助如果是經濟部關鍵的領主件你要符合滿足我對這產業關鍵的領主件的我才給你補助 這合理嘛對不對 我政府要給你的錢必須你滿足我的政策要求主委是不是這樣子所以政府補助要求要參與的業者你必須滿足我的正面表列我才給你 同不同意\n我想這是經濟部的業務啦那他如果符合經濟部的相關規定我現在要問的是政府採購但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商是限本國國產製品嗎可不可以可以限嗎\n啊你怎麼認定它是國產製品就是你說的財政部的只要財政部認定是就是是你們是這樣的標準嘛對不對好但是主委現在開始進入深水區了我們可以要求自治率嗎你的公共採購可以要求自治率嗎非GPS的也可以要求自治率好那我可以要求你的供應的產品關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎\n好那我先問一個有關於資安的晶片你們是把它放在哪個資安資訊產品是要求自製力還是要求國產製品還是要求你的這些有含有晶片的工程機具必須不得有中國的零組件的晶片可以要求嗎\n好部長其實我今天要來談的是什麼呢就是在公共工程的採購當中啊其實我們的合約因為有其他的WTO的一些規範我們不能製造一些非關稅的障礙因此呢我們必須對有能力的全世界的廠商提供開放但是\n有正當理由的時候我們還是可以限定譬如說我們的採購的財貨如果說有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題譬如說這個產品是中國供應的這個零組件是中國供應的但是呢一旦他不供應了我就買不到了那因此一開始我就不跟你買可不可以這樣子供應鏈韌性的部分 副主委完全沒有關係\n所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白的把各種的要求都排除中國的產製的零組件可以嗎那就是看那個目的世界主管機關他採購機關的需求那合約上面都可以限都可以要求所以要拜託主委也拜託政委現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約他其實是一個標準的套裝但是在因應著各個機關我上次有問過要有一個減核表\n有些不同的機敏設施有些不同的勞務採購我們要嚴防治安的風險嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們的服務的一些威脅所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約的模組的時候請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組\n或者你可以要求他全部限定是國產製品或者你要求他要有一定的自製率或者你要求他在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的或者是必須用本國產地的尤其是像晶片像資安甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的舉例來講\n電動車電動車目前我們的政府採購合約裡面並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造我們都知道電動車的市場裡面電池中國是個最大的可能也是做得最多最好的也有可能所以要用有競爭力的電動車多半會採用中國的電池\n但是因為採購合約裡面沒有限制因此得標廠商得標之後往往面臨一個困局他能得標表示他的CP值很高他可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成但是一旦沒有得標廠商來檢舉說他怎麼用重核電池\n工程會能夠裁說這個合約無效嗎不行啊但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾你買了電動車結果裡面電子是中國製的這個輿論披露還得了嗎這個不見得是我們的契約精神但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突\n所以我要請主委也請政委這個部分拜託工程會開始去做我們所有公共政府採購相關合約不管是勞務採購還是設備採購還是工程採購可以將這些模組研發出來\n政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據那至於機關他需要什麼不需要什麼機關他會記恆佐那關於是不是中置產品中資等等採購法以及相關規定或者是機敏的國安採購對相關的管制跟規定那我們也正在修正相關的來\n工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他需要什麼去把它建立一個模組說你可以要這個不要那個我們在採購法是提供給大家來採購就我們就法律的修正原則性的來修正是可以能夠達到委員這個希望的這樣的要求啦謝謝主委因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於\n政府採購當中的一個參與者我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務包括評審名單等等等所以我要求的也不是說我們幫使用機關的政府做決定而是說我們幫他讓他提醒他有個檢核的表對於採購契約的限制條款有哪些是可以他們去應用去思考的不是幫他們訂定採購合約而是建議他們再有一個指引\n我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引然後呢在這個指引當中特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈的韌性所謂的供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的或是會不時的斷貨就是說任意斷貨不符合契約精神但是造成我們使用方的困擾的類似這種狀況的條款我們給它充實或者提供指引那幫助很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發他也不曉得買這個東西會有這個地雷\n所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:12.721\n主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳主任委員請主委跟公共工程採購的部分的主管也可以請上來\n\n00:16.589 --> 00:38.415\n主委好其他的主管好我想今天來請教不只是您是主委您也是政委我提到川普的關稅政策重視飛鴻供應鏈那麼政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來保查韌性我們現在看川普政策大家都了解其實在上個月4月到5月我們在經濟委員會在關心一題\n\n00:39.605 --> 00:55.070\n在台灣的汽車因為美國他的關稅的關係他認為只要是有中國成本35%的修飾為中國車要刻意非常高的關稅甚至禁止進口但是在我們台灣經濟部的規定\n\n00:56.980 --> 01:17.846\n我們的整車產業它事實上它的自治率要逐年調高到35%今年8月以後才到30%甚至我們知道台灣的整車廠它的很多零組件是來自於對岸因此就有委員質疑說那這樣的車子能符合美國對於飛鴻供應鏈的要求嗎主委你認為可不可以通得過這可能要請教美國吧\n\n01:22.293 --> 01:48.922\n是你要請教一下打電話給您但是呢我得到進步的答案是說台灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場的啦因為台灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力所以我們這樣的設置雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣但是呢不受影響好了但是呢台灣的供應鏈有很多來自中國或者是中國以外的第三地那這樣的一個組成的產品\n\n01:49.722 --> 01:53.043\n甚至來到台灣組裝可以供應給台灣的本國市場嗎這四位是副主委好陳副主委對不起喂你好那個我想公共工程是只有在主管在有關政府採購的部分是的這有些要問你的下一題對所以我們的理解應該是從政府採購的部分那因為我們有加入GPA嘛\n\n02:16.073 --> 02:44.363\n那原則上它有一個原產地的原則啦那這種非成員國的這個產品到底它經過什麼樣的一個資質轉換才會改變成是它產地別啊那這個這部分的主管機關據我所知應該是在財政部它有一個認定的辦法那是稅的問題海關的認定問題這我知道我在財政委員會好我們看下一題既然你說政府採購我就要問政府採購其實政府採購呢它其實\n\n02:45.765 --> 03:11.633\n美方關鍵的是飛鴻但是我發現我們政府關鍵的是台製國製譬如說政府補助如果是經濟部關鍵的領主件你要符合滿足我對這產業關鍵的領主件的我才給你補助這合理嘛對不對我政府要給你的錢必須你滿足我的政策要求主委是不是這樣子所以政府補助要求要參與的業者你必須滿足我的正面表列我才給你同不同意\n\n03:12.489 --> 03:28.350\n我想這是經濟部的業務啦那他如果符合經濟部的相關規定我現在要問的是政府採購但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商是限本國國產製品嗎可不可以可以限嗎\n\n03:30.489 --> 03:44.616\n啊你怎麼認定它是國產製品就是你說的財政部的只要財政部認定是就是是你們是這樣的標準嘛對不對好但是主委現在開始進入深水區了我們可以要求自治率嗎你的公共採購可以要求自治率嗎非GPS的也可以要求自治率好那我可以要求你的供應的產品關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎\n\n03:57.776 --> 04:14.008\n好那我先問一個有關於資安的晶片你們是把它放在哪個資安資訊產品是要求自製力還是要求國產製品還是要求你的這些有含有晶片的工程機具必須不得有中國的零組件的晶片可以要求嗎\n\n04:17.861 --> 04:36.239\n好部長其實我今天要來談的是什麼呢就是在公共工程的採購當中啊其實我們的合約因為有其他的WTO的一些規範我們不能製造一些非關稅的障礙因此呢我們必須對有能力的全世界的廠商提供開放但是\n\n04:37.020 --> 04:58.004\n有正當理由的時候我們還是可以限定譬如說我們的採購的財貨如果說有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題譬如說這個產品是中國供應的這個零組件是中國供應的但是呢一旦他不供應了我就買不到了那因此一開始我就不跟你買可不可以這樣子供應鏈韌性的部分副主委完全沒有關係\n\n05:05.839 --> 05:32.278\n所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白的把各種的要求都排除中國的產製的零組件可以嗎那就是看那個目的世界主管機關他採購機關的需求那合約上面都可以限都可以要求所以要拜託主委也拜託政委現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約他其實是一個標準的套裝但是在因應著各個機關我上次有問過要有一個減核表\n\n05:33.118 --> 05:55.746\n有些不同的機敏設施有些不同的勞務採購我們要嚴防治安的風險嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們的服務的一些威脅所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約的模組的時候請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組\n\n05:56.906 --> 06:14.812\n或者你可以要求他全部限定是國產製品或者你要求他要有一定的自製率或者你要求他在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的或者是必須用本國產地的尤其是像晶片像資安甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的舉例來講\n\n06:17.873 --> 06:32.917\n電動車電動車目前我們的政府採購合約裡面並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造我們都知道電動車的市場裡面電池中國是個最大的可能也是做得最多最好的也有可能所以要用有競爭力的電動車多半會採用中國的電池\n\n06:36.098 --> 06:52.298\n但是因為採購合約裡面沒有限制因此得標廠商得標之後往往面臨一個困局他能得標表示他的CP值很高他可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成但是一旦沒有得標廠商來檢舉說他怎麼用重核電池\n\n06:53.612 --> 07:11.181\n工程會能夠裁說這個合約無效嗎不行啊但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾你買了電動車結果裡面電子是中國製的這個輿論披露還得了嗎這個不見得是我們的契約精神但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突\n\n07:12.662 --> 07:22.316\n所以我要請主委也請政委這個部分拜託工程會開始去做我們所有公共政府採購相關合約不管是勞務採購還是設備採購還是工程採購可以將這些模組研發出來\n\n07:30.202 --> 07:55.052\n政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據那至於機關他需要什麼不需要什麼機關他會記恆佐那關於是不是中置產品中資等等採購法以及相關規定或者是機敏的國安採購對相關的管制跟規定那我們也正在修正相關的來\n\n07:56.472 --> 08:17.652\n工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他需要什麼去把它建立一個模組說你可以要這個不要那個我們在採購法是提供給大家來採購就我們就法律的修正原則性的來修正是可以能夠達到委員這個希望的這樣的要求啦謝謝主委因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於\n\n08:18.533 --> 08:43.550\n政府採購當中的一個參與者我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務包括評審名單等等等所以我要求的也不是說我們幫使用機關的政府做決定而是說我們幫他讓他提醒他有個檢核的表對於採購契約的限制條款有哪些是可以他們去應用去思考的不是幫他們訂定採購合約而是建議他們再有一個指引\n\n08:44.270 --> 08:56.919\n我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引然後呢在這個指引當中特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈的韌性所謂的供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的或是會不時的斷貨就是說任意斷貨不符合契約精神但是造成我們使用方的困擾的類似這種狀況的條款我們給它充實或者提供指引那幫助很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發他也不曉得買這個東西會有這個地雷\n\n09:12.671 --> 09:34.181\n所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":12.721,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳主任委員請主委跟公共工程採購的部分的主管也可以請上來"},{"start":16.589,"end":38.415,"text":"主委好 其他的主管好我想今天來請教不只是您是主委 您也是政委我提到川普的關稅政策重視飛鴻供應鏈那麼政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來保查韌性我們現在看川普政策大家都了解其實在上個月4月到5月我們在經濟委員會在關心一題"},{"start":39.605,"end":55.07,"text":"在台灣的汽車因為美國他的關稅的關係他認為只要是有中國成本35%的修飾為中國車要刻意非常高的關稅甚至禁止進口但是在我們台灣經濟部的規定"},{"start":56.98,"end":77.846,"text":"我們的整車產業它事實上它的自治率要逐年調高到35%今年8月以後才到30%甚至我們知道台灣的整車廠它的很多零組件是來自於對岸因此就有委員質疑說那這樣的車子能符合美國對於飛鴻供應鏈的要求嗎主委你認為可不可以通得過這可能要請教美國吧"},{"start":82.293,"end":108.922,"text":"是 你要請教一下 打電話給您但是呢 我得到進步的答案是說台灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場的啦因為台灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力所以我們這樣的設置雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣但是呢 不受影響好了 但是呢台灣的供應鏈有很多來自中國或者是中國以外的第三地那這樣的一個組成的產品"},{"start":109.722,"end":113.043,"text":"甚至來到台灣組裝 可以供應給台灣的本國市場嗎這四位是 副主委好 陳副主委對不起喂你好 那個我想公共工程是只有在主管在有關政府採購的部分是的 這有些要問你的下一題對 所以我們的理解應該是從政府採購的部分那因為我們有加入GPA嘛"},{"start":136.073,"end":164.363,"text":"那原則上它有一個原產地的原則啦那這種非成員國的這個產品到底它經過什麼樣的一個資質轉換才會改變成是它產地別啊那這個這部分的主管機關據我所知應該是在財政部它有一個認定的辦法那是稅的問題海關的認定問題這我知道我在財政委員會好我們看下一題既然你說政府採購我就要問政府採購其實政府採購呢它其實"},{"start":165.765,"end":191.633,"text":"美方關鍵的是飛鴻但是我發現我們政府關鍵的是台製 國製譬如說政府補助如果是經濟部關鍵的領主件你要符合滿足我對這產業關鍵的領主件的我才給你補助 這合理嘛對不對 我政府要給你的錢必須你滿足我的政策要求主委是不是這樣子所以政府補助要求要參與的業者你必須滿足我的正面表列我才給你 同不同意"},{"start":192.489,"end":208.35,"text":"我想這是經濟部的業務啦那他如果符合經濟部的相關規定我現在要問的是政府採購但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商是限本國國產製品嗎可不可以可以限嗎"},{"start":210.489,"end":224.616,"text":"啊你怎麼認定它是國產製品就是你說的財政部的只要財政部認定是就是是你們是這樣的標準嘛對不對好但是主委現在開始進入深水區了我們可以要求自治率嗎你的公共採購可以要求自治率嗎非GPS的也可以要求自治率好那我可以要求你的供應的產品關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎"},{"start":237.776,"end":254.008,"text":"好那我先問一個有關於資安的晶片你們是把它放在哪個資安資訊產品是要求自製力還是要求國產製品還是要求你的這些有含有晶片的工程機具必須不得有中國的零組件的晶片可以要求嗎"},{"start":257.861,"end":276.239,"text":"好部長其實我今天要來談的是什麼呢就是在公共工程的採購當中啊其實我們的合約因為有其他的WTO的一些規範我們不能製造一些非關稅的障礙因此呢我們必須對有能力的全世界的廠商提供開放但是"},{"start":277.02,"end":298.004,"text":"有正當理由的時候我們還是可以限定譬如說我們的採購的財貨如果說有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題譬如說這個產品是中國供應的這個零組件是中國供應的但是呢一旦他不供應了我就買不到了那因此一開始我就不跟你買可不可以這樣子供應鏈韌性的部分 副主委完全沒有關係"},{"start":305.839,"end":332.278,"text":"所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白的把各種的要求都排除中國的產製的零組件可以嗎那就是看那個目的世界主管機關他採購機關的需求那合約上面都可以限都可以要求所以要拜託主委也拜託政委現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約他其實是一個標準的套裝但是在因應著各個機關我上次有問過要有一個減核表"},{"start":333.118,"end":355.746,"text":"有些不同的機敏設施有些不同的勞務採購我們要嚴防治安的風險嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們的服務的一些威脅所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約的模組的時候請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組"},{"start":356.906,"end":374.812,"text":"或者你可以要求他全部限定是國產製品或者你要求他要有一定的自製率或者你要求他在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的或者是必須用本國產地的尤其是像晶片像資安甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的舉例來講"},{"start":377.873,"end":392.917,"text":"電動車電動車目前我們的政府採購合約裡面並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造我們都知道電動車的市場裡面電池中國是個最大的可能也是做得最多最好的也有可能所以要用有競爭力的電動車多半會採用中國的電池"},{"start":396.098,"end":412.298,"text":"但是因為採購合約裡面沒有限制因此得標廠商得標之後往往面臨一個困局他能得標表示他的CP值很高他可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成但是一旦沒有得標廠商來檢舉說他怎麼用重核電池"},{"start":413.612,"end":431.181,"text":"工程會能夠裁說這個合約無效嗎不行啊但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾你買了電動車結果裡面電子是中國製的這個輿論披露還得了嗎這個不見得是我們的契約精神但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突"},{"start":432.662,"end":442.316,"text":"所以我要請主委也請政委這個部分拜託工程會開始去做我們所有公共政府採購相關合約不管是勞務採購還是設備採購還是工程採購可以將這些模組研發出來"},{"start":450.202,"end":475.052,"text":"政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據那至於機關他需要什麼不需要什麼機關他會記恆佐那關於是不是中置產品中資等等採購法以及相關規定或者是機敏的國安採購對相關的管制跟規定那我們也正在修正相關的來"},{"start":476.472,"end":497.652,"text":"工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他需要什麼去把它建立一個模組說你可以要這個不要那個我們在採購法是提供給大家來採購就我們就法律的修正原則性的來修正是可以能夠達到委員這個希望的這樣的要求啦謝謝主委因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於"},{"start":498.533,"end":523.55,"text":"政府採購當中的一個參與者我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務包括評審名單等等等所以我要求的也不是說我們幫使用機關的政府做決定而是說我們幫他讓他提醒他有個檢核的表對於採購契約的限制條款有哪些是可以他們去應用去思考的不是幫他們訂定採購合約而是建議他們再有一個指引"},{"start":524.27,"end":536.919,"text":"我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引然後呢在這個指引當中特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈的韌性所謂的供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的或是會不時的斷貨就是說任意斷貨不符合契約精神但是造成我們使用方的困擾的類似這種狀況的條款我們給它充實或者提供指引那幫助很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發他也不曉得買這個東西會有這個地雷"},{"start":552.671,"end":574.181,"text":"所以我是不是可以請工程會基於這樣的供應鏈韌性這個理由之一來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款提供一個指南或一個指引可以嗎就像副主委所講的必要的時候就再補充相關的解釋然後函班給各機關好謝謝主委那是不是這樣的一個作為可以提供給本席這邊來了解我們的進度或作為可以嗎謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":529,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時35分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關長官、委員會的工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士、先生。有請陳主任委員。"],["主席：請主委。"],["鍾委員佳濱：跟公共工程採購業務有關的主管也請上來。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委好，其他的主管好。我想今天來請教，不只你是主委、你也是政委，我提到川普的關稅政策重視非紅供應鏈，政府採購是不是要排除特定地區來確保產地韌性，川普政策大家都了解，其實在4月到5月我們在經濟委員會關心一題，因為美國關稅的關係，他認為臺灣的汽車只要有中國成分35%，就視為中國車，要課以非常高的關稅，甚至禁止進口。但是在臺灣經濟部的規定，我們的整車產業，事實上，它的自製率要逐年調高到35%，今年8月以後才到30%，甚至我們知道臺灣的整車廠很多零組件是來自於對岸，因此就有委員質疑說，那這樣的車子，能符合美國對於非紅供應鏈的要求嗎？主委，你認為可不可以通過？"],["陳主任委員金德：這可能要請教美國吧！"],["鍾委員佳濱：你要請教他，川普有沒有打電話給你？但是我得到進一步的答案是，臺灣的整車業沒有在賣美國市場，因為臺灣的整車業在美國市場沒有競爭力，所以我們這樣的設置，雖然跟美國認定標準不一樣，但是不受影響。臺灣供應鏈有很多來自中國，或是中國以外的第三地，這樣一個組成的產品，甚至來到臺灣組裝，可以供應給臺灣的本國市場嗎？"],["主席：這位是副主委？是陳副主委，對不起。"],["陳副主任委員為祥：委員你好，我想公共工程只有主管有關政府採購的部分……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，這也是我要問你的下一題。"],["陳副主任委員為祥：所以我們的理解，應該是從政府採購的部分，因為我們有加入GPA，原則上它有一個原產地的原則，非成員國的產品，到底經過什麼樣的實質轉換，才會改變它的產地別？這部分的主管機關，據我所知，應該是在財政部有一個認定的辦法……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是稅的問題，海關的認定問題，我在財政委員會，這我知道。好，既然你說政府採購，我就要問政府採購，其實美方關切的是非紅，但是我發現我們政府關切的是臺製、國製，譬如政府補助，如果是經濟部關鍵零組件，要符合、滿足我對這產業關鍵零組件，我才給你補助，這合理嘛！我政府要給你的錢，你必須滿足我的政策要求，主委，是不是這樣子？所以政府補助要求參與的業者，必須滿足政府的正面表列，我才給你補助，你同不同意？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想這是經濟部的業務。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。"],["陳主任委員金德：它如果符合經濟部的相關規定，我想應該就是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我現在要問的是政府採購，但是政府採購我們可以在採購合約要求供應商限國產製品嗎？可不可以限制？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：可以，招標文件有寫就可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以限嘛！你怎麼認定它是國產製品？就是你說的，只要財政部認定是就是，你們是這樣的標準，對不對？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：對！"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是主委，現在開始進入深水區了，我們公共採購可以要求自製率嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：非GPA的可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：非GPA的也可以要求自製率，好，那我可以要求供應產品的關鍵零組件必須是國產的嗎？我先問一個有關於資安的晶片，你們是把資訊產品要求自製率，還是要求國產製品，還是要求這些含有晶片的工程機具，必須不得有中國的零組件晶片？可以要求嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：我們現在已經在契約範本裡面有要求了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委，其實我今天要來談的是在公共工程的採購當中，因為我們的合約有其他WTO的一些規範，我們不能製造一些非關稅障礙，因此我們必須對全世界有能力的廠商提供開放，但是有正當理由的時候，我們還是可以限定，譬如我們採購的財貨，如果有屬於供應鏈韌性的問題，譬如這個產品或零組件是中國供應的，一旦它不供應了，我就買不到，因此我一開始就不跟你買，可不可以這樣？供應鏈韌性的部分，請教副主委。"],["陳副主任委員為祥：跟委員報告，因為中國本來就不是GPA的會員，我們限制他們的產品是沒有問題的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：完全沒有關係。所以我們的公共工程採購合約可以明明白白地把各種要求都排除中國產製的零組件，可以嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：要看目的事業主管機關他們採購機關的需求，合約上面都可以要求。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以要拜託主委、也拜託政委，現在我們很多公共工程的採購合約，其實是一個標準的套裝，但是因應各個機關，我上次有問過，這要有一個檢核表，有些不同的機敏設施、不同的勞務採購，我們要嚴防資安風險，嚴防紅色供應鏈對我們服務的一些威脅，所以我希望未來公共工程委員會在提供這些契約模組的時候，請你們先幫這些可能應用到的機關先設想好有哪些模組，或者你們可以要求它全部限定是國產製品，或者你們要求它要有一定的自製率，或者你們要求它在關鍵零組件不得是哪些特定產地的，或是必須用本國產地的，尤其是像晶片、資安，甚至是一些會影響到我們供應鏈韌性的產品。","舉例來講，電動車在目前我們的政府採購合約裡面，並沒有要求電池不能使用中國製造的，我們都知道電動車市場裡面的電池，中國是最大的市場，可能也是做得最多、最好的。所以要用有競爭力的電動車，多半會採用中國的電池，但因為採購合約裡面沒有限制，因此得標廠商得標之後，往往面臨一個困局，他們能得標表示他們的CP值很高，他們可能必須使用最有競爭力的零組件來構成，但是一旦沒有得標的廠商來檢舉說：他們怎麼可以使用中國電池？請問工程會能夠裁定這個合約無效嗎？不行啊！但是使用機關會產生什麼很大的困擾？你買的電動車，結果裡面電池是中國製的，這個輿論披露還得了嗎？這個不見得是我們的契約精神，但是是社會上的常識認知會衝突，所以我要請主委及政委，拜託工程會針對這部分開始去做你們所有公共工程採購相關合約，不管是勞務採購、設備採購，還是工程採購，可以將這些模組研發出來。"],["陳主任委員金德：政府採購法是提供給政府機關進行各種採購的依據，至於機關他們需要什麼，不需要什麼，機關會去衡酌。關於是不是中製產品、中資等等，或是機敏的國安採購，在採購法都有相關的管制及規定，我們也正在修正相關的條款。","工程會本身無法替每個機關想到他們需要什麼，把它建立一個模組，要求你們可以要這個、不要那個。採購法是提供給大家來採購，我們就法條原則性的來修正，是可以能夠達到委員希望的要求。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝主委。因為我在地方政府過去也是擔任屬於政府採購當中的參與者，我了解工程會有提供這些資源服務，包括評審名單等等，所以我要求的也不是幫使用機關做決定，而是我們幫忙提醒他們有個檢核的表，對於採購契約的限制條款，有哪些是他們可以去應用、去思考的，不是幫他們訂定採購合約，而是我希望公共工程委員會可以訂一個指引，在這個指引當中，特別重視到我們現在要求的供應鏈韌性。","所謂供應鏈的韌性是對我們有安全妨礙的，或是會不時的斷貨，就是任意斷貨不符合契約精神，造成我們使用方困擾類似這種狀況的條款，我們給他們充實，或者提供指引，很多地方政府並沒有能力去研發，他們也不曉得買這個東西會有地雷，所以我是不是可以請工程會，基於這樣的供應鏈韌性，這是理由之一，來對我們政府採購契約的限制條款，提供一個指南或一個指引，可以嗎？就像剛副主委所提到的。"],["陳主任委員金德：必要的時候，會再補充相關的解釋，並函頒給各機關。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝主委。是不是這樣的作為，可以提供給本席這邊來了解你們的進度或作為，可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝主委，也謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","請游顥委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-14","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","魯明哲","陳素月","徐富癸","蔡其昌","何欣純","黃健豪","邱若華","鍾佳濱","游顥","廖先翔"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2025-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員徐欣瑩等18人、二、委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具「技師法第十一條條文修正草案」\n及三、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人擬具「技師法第十一條及第四十二條條文修正草\n案」案【本日會議僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1145701_00003"}}}