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127.187, \"text\": \"當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 109.032, \"end\": 109.653, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 109.653, \"end\": 110.053, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 110.053, \"end\": 110.373, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 110.373, \"end\": 110.594, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 110.594, \"end\": 111.174, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 111.174, \"end\": 111.514, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 111.514, \"end\": 111.655, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 111.655, \"end\": 112.035, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 112.035, \"end\": 112.175, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 112.175, \"end\": 112.475, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 646.282, \"end\": 646.422, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 646.422, \"end\": 647.043, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 647.043, \"end\": 647.063, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,183 --> 00:00:06,779\n好謝謝主席有請次長好有請李次長\n\n2\n00:00:12,726 --> 00:00:36,145\n非常早今天部長沒來所以我的第一題跟時事相關的如果您知道多少就回答多少好了我想近期尤其是接下來可能暑假到了就有很多的海外的不管是韓團也好或者是一些偶像團體也好他們可能就會來台灣辦一些相關的不管是粉絲見面會也好或者是簽唱會等等\n\n3\n00:00:36,966 --> 00:01:01,406\n那我們知道這個韓國的普寶英來台的活動喔那就是主辦方他們片面的就說要來延期那這件事情我不曉得這個文化部這邊知道他們延期的一個原因到底是什麼嗎那因為上次其實在這個泰國的這個偶像他們要來台灣喔但是呢之後就查到就是超級娛樂公司他們是有一個中資的一個背景喔\n\n4\n00:01:01,986 --> 00:01:26,657\n那當然這個所謂的這個見面會當然也就取消了那但是接著下來其實我們也可能會面臨到有一些類似像這樣子的一個偶像的主辦方他們可能也會有所謂的這個中資的一個跨境的資金那我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益還有我們的國安的一些警訊那這個部分不知道文化部這邊掌握有多少\n\n5\n00:01:29,192 --> 00:01:45,229\n好剛剛謝謝委員的垂詢剛剛提到了幾個這種比較是韓團或韓星他們的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消這件事情應該判斷起來都還是商業上面的考慮是好\n\n6\n00:01:49,032 --> 00:02:07,187\n當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣\n\n7\n00:02:08,308 --> 00:02:30,369\n它是另外一種不同的形式的一個文化上的一個表演尤其是影視文化上的表演它所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人但是在這個主辦商的誠信登錄的一個制度其實我們是可以來做這樣子的一個比較外資深報透明的一個機制來掌握就是說它背後的這個資金的就是有沒有中資的一個背景\n\n8\n00:02:31,109 --> 00:02:48,879\n這提醒給文化部好那我們進入今天的這個主題我想今天大家在討論的是我們台灣的世界遺產但是呢看得到的跟看不到的其實看不到的也很重要那我們今天來聚焦一下就我的部分我們來聚焦一下這些看不到的一些遺產我想這個為了銜接國際的一個制度我們是在2014年\n\n9\n00:02:53,681 --> 00:03:14,693\n是看得到的台灣世界遺產的一個不管是點名領選或者是我們的一個除名的一個要點是2014年我們就已經訂定了但是呢我在這個地方要來說的是非遺的部分尤其是我們的潛力名錄的領選一個除名的這個作業的要點跟非遺的一個推動會是直到2022年\n\n10\n00:03:16,354 --> 00:03:31,117\n整整是晚了八年左右但是這個非裔的部分其實也非常重要那尤其今天其實文化部雖然我們聚焦的專案報告是在所謂的這個看得到的這些就是看得到的這些世界遺產的部分\n\n11\n00:03:31,678 --> 00:03:43,388\n但是呢反映在非裔在整體上的我們在政策上可能還是面臨這個可見度以及這個主流化不足的一個挑戰那我想呢這個無形當中的這些非裔的一個資產那特別是我們要再爭取這個國際文化話語權跟提升這個辨識度識別度的部分我們更仰賴所謂的這個科學的研究還有整個制度的一個結合還有政策的一個支持\n\n12\n00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:13,754\n不然其實我們也很擔心飛移的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化那麼尤其是現在我們看得到的包含中國的部分他們其實也是蠢蠢欲動的要往這個飛移的部分尤其是台灣的飛移的部分要來這個驚吞蠶食應該可以這麼說\n\n13\n00:04:17,714 --> 00:04:26,200\n我們向文化部來所知近三年非疑的調研還有保存的維護還有建立國際組織的夥伴的關係這樣子的經費其實是遠遠超過所謂的示疑的經費但是從制度面來講我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃我想問一下文化部這邊\n\n14\n00:04:39,449 --> 00:04:41,132\n如果針對所謂這被遴選的12項的這個非移的部分的潛力的項目我們有沒有一些重點投入的一些項目\n\n15\n00:04:50,418 --> 00:05:14,973\n好,謝謝委員的提問那這邊先跟委員說明一下,對非宜這項工作其實它的起步是一樣在民國98年,好,2009年就開始只是那時候我們並沒有分開來,我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面去執行是一直到了一百一十一、二十一、二十一、三十一、四十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十\n\n16\n00:05:15,493 --> 00:05:27,187\n事情分開來然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理那現在我們有哪一些我剛剛講的這個12項的這個非移的這個項目我們是有投入在哪一個部分嗎應該講我們這12項都\n\n17\n00:05:30,984 --> 00:05:54,491\n比較是平均的只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府有提出申請的時候我們都會盡量的寬於補助那只是他並沒有像剛剛講的在市移的部分我們有明確的去討論出來說只推集中力量去推那個阿里山森林鐵路在非移的部分因為每一項委員會看起來就每一下都很重要都捨不得\n\n18\n00:05:55,291 --> 00:06:12,712\n所以有沒有一個比較確定的一些進程我比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族的一個論壇六年計畫其實到今年為止可能我們就要結束囉那這個部分已經要結束的話那有沒有可能再把這個部分的不管是轉化到他的戰略的一個格局\n\n19\n00:06:13,292 --> 00:06:33,222\n轉化成所謂的非疑的一個國際論述的一個基礎來強化我們自己在文化上的一個主權跟國際的一個影響力如果像這個計畫今年要結束那接著下來有沒有要繼續延續還有沒有要繼續加強這個部分我們跟原民會來討論好不好所以還要討論因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子\n\n20\n00:06:34,209 --> 00:06:53,490\n它並不是文化部的那可是這件事情南島民族的確是我們非議裡面一個重要的項目但還記得嗎我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念而且要重視所謂的這個價值外交跟這個總和外交所以不是我應該是說要跨部會啦好\n\n21\n00:06:54,471 --> 00:07:14,118\n應該是跨部會不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了因為這個文化的部分其實這個範圍是很大的包含外交部文化部原民會還有中研院甚至教育部我們其實都應該要來跨部會來做合作才對啊好那接下來我想問的就是那這個部分如果有更快的一個進程可以多久之後可以提供給我們\n\n22\n00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:36,061\n兩個月會來討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇為什麼我說非移非常的重要今天是因為時間的關係所以我們就挑重點講為什麼說非移非常重要是因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上的其實已經對我們的所謂的本土包含我們這個南島語系的文化的遺跡\n\n23\n00:07:37,162 --> 00:07:59,597\n那麼他們也把它要列入是中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中這其實已經是被他們登錄而且我們的這個項目當中已經有兩項是被他成功登錄變成是他們的世界非遺的部分那我們在這個部分我們有做什麼樣的一個防範的措施我們怎麼樣針對他們搶住他國文化資產的部分像之前他們也搶韓國的\n\n24\n00:08:08,223 --> 00:08:27,754\n包含他們講說什麼不管是食鍋拌飯也好泡菜也好那當然也被韓國他們批評說這個是完全在扭曲歷史但是我們知道這個中國他們是無孔不入啊他現在是連飛移的部分都有可能會入侵都有可能要搶先登陸這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策這個部分大家真的要協助那個尋求國際的\n\n25\n00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:55,346\n這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助因為他這個整個審查的時候他送審我們因為我們沒有那個報考資格所以而且現在中國就一向主張他把我們發生在台灣今天他一次自己就把他以為是我們已經有領選優先推動的一些潛力的名錄了嘛那我們自己本身怎麼樣來防範這個部分我們還要經過跟國際來討論才能保護我們\n\n26\n00:08:57,586 --> 00:09:14,601\n我是說防範中國把台灣的包括南島或者是去登陸為他的飛役這個部分我們必須要國際的力量可是在國內上來講我們當然要持續的加強力道來輔助要怎麼加強力道有沒有一些具體的實際的做法\n\n27\n00:09:16,231 --> 00:09:40,972\n我們要加強力道不是嘴巴講啦要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為啊當然我們知道其實我們如果缺乏跟非裔整合跟國際的一個佈局的一個機制我們的所謂的這些非裔有可能就會被挪用了尤其是被中國挪用欸對啊這個不是只有靠國外靠國際我們自己本身怎麼守護啊有沒有一些具體的做法\n\n28\n00:09:43,002 --> 00:10:02,572\n政府能做的角色就是基本上積極的努力的去補助我給你們一個方向給你們一個建議好不好我們是不是可以考慮成立建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制我們可以來加強比方說我們可以跟帛琉我們跟我們的友邦嘛我們跟我們的帛琉跟這個土瓦魯\n\n29\n00:10:03,092 --> 00:10:27,934\n友邦一起來共同推動所謂的南島語系的飛移的申請我們一起來做好嗎那這個部分其實真的要快因為我們都知道其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已啊不是只有天天在我們的這個附近的海域在那邊演習而已啊他現在是蠶食精吞不管是用統戰的工具也好或者是他用任志作戰也好或者是他用\n\n30\n00:10:28,274 --> 00:10:47,063\n菲夷連文化的部分都有可能會被他們拿去做挪用這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力文化部加油好嗎好因為今天時間的關係那如果有更新的一些進程麻煩提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3183\t6779\t好 謝謝主席 有請次長好 有請李次長\n12726\t36145\t非常早 今天部長沒來所以我的第一題跟時事相關的如果您知道多少就回答多少好了我想近期尤其是接下來可能暑假到了就有很多的海外的不管是韓團也好或者是一些偶像團體也好他們可能就會來台灣辦一些相關的不管是粉絲見面會也好或者是簽唱會等等\n36966\t61406\t那我們知道這個韓國的普寶英來台的活動喔那就是主辦方他們片面的就說要來延期那這件事情我不曉得這個文化部這邊知道他們延期的一個原因到底是什麼嗎那因為上次其實在這個泰國的這個偶像他們要來台灣喔但是呢之後就查到就是超級娛樂公司他們是有一個中資的一個背景喔\n61986\t86657\t那當然這個所謂的這個見面會當然也就取消了那但是接著下來其實我們也可能會面臨到有一些類似像這樣子的一個偶像的主辦方他們可能也會有所謂的這個中資的一個跨境的資金那我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益還有我們的國安的一些警訊那這個部分不知道文化部這邊掌握有多少\n89192\t105229\t好 剛剛謝謝委員的垂詢剛剛提到了幾個這種比較是韓團或韓星他們的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消這件事情應該判斷起來都還是商業上面的考慮是好\n109032\t127187\t當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣\n128308\t150369\t它是另外一種不同的形式的一個文化上的一個表演尤其是影視文化上的表演它所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人但是在這個主辦商的誠信登錄的一個制度其實我們是可以來做這樣子的一個比較外資深報透明的一個機制來掌握就是說它背後的這個資金的就是有沒有中資的一個背景\n151109\t168879\t這提醒給文化部好那我們進入今天的這個主題我想今天大家在討論的是我們台灣的世界遺產但是呢看得到的跟看不到的其實看不到的也很重要那我們今天來聚焦一下就我的部分我們來聚焦一下這些看不到的一些遺產我想這個為了銜接國際的一個制度我們是在2014年\n173681\t194693\t是看得到的台灣世界遺產的一個不管是點名領選或者是我們的一個除名的一個要點是2014年我們就已經訂定了但是呢我在這個地方要來說的是非遺的部分尤其是我們的潛力名錄的領選一個除名的這個作業的要點跟非遺的一個推動會是直到2022年\n196354\t211117\t整整是晚了八年左右但是這個非裔的部分其實也非常重要那尤其今天其實文化部雖然我們聚焦的專案報告是在所謂的這個看得到的這些就是看得到的這些世界遺產的部分\n211678\t223388\t但是呢反映在非裔在整體上的我們在政策上可能還是面臨這個可見度以及這個主流化不足的一個挑戰那我想呢這個無形當中的這些非裔的一個資產那特別是我們要再爭取這個國際文化話語權跟提升這個辨識度識別度的部分我們更仰賴所謂的這個科學的研究還有整個制度的一個結合還有政策的一個支持\n238920\t253754\t不然其實我們也很擔心飛移的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化那麼尤其是現在我們看得到的包含中國的部分他們其實也是蠢蠢欲動的要往這個飛移的部分尤其是台灣的飛移的部分要來這個驚吞蠶食應該可以這麼說\n257714\t266200\t我們向文化部來所知近三年非疑的調研還有保存的維護還有建立國際組織的夥伴的關係這樣子的經費其實是遠遠超過所謂的示疑的經費但是從制度面來講我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃我想問一下文化部這邊\n279449\t281132\t如果針對所謂這被遴選的12項的這個非移的部分的潛力的項目我們有沒有一些重點投入的一些項目\n290418\t314973\t好,謝謝委員的提問那這邊先跟委員說明一下,對非宜這項工作其實它的起步是一樣在民國98年,好,2009年就開始只是那時候我們並沒有分開來,我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面去執行是一直到了一百一十一、二十一、二十一、三十一、四十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十\n315493\t327187\t事情分開來然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理那現在我們有哪一些我剛剛講的這個12項的這個非移的這個項目我們是有投入在哪一個部分嗎應該講我們這12項都\n330984\t354491\t比較是平均的只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府有提出申請的時候我們都會盡量的寬於補助那只是他並沒有像剛剛講的在市移的部分我們有明確的去討論出來說只推集中力量去推那個阿里山森林鐵路在非移的部分因為每一項委員會看起來就每一下都很重要都捨不得\n355291\t372712\t所以有沒有一個比較確定的一些進程我比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族的一個論壇六年計畫其實到今年為止可能我們就要結束囉那這個部分已經要結束的話那有沒有可能再把這個部分的不管是轉化到他的戰略的一個格局\n373292\t393222\t轉化成所謂的非疑的一個國際論述的一個基礎來強化我們自己在文化上的一個主權跟國際的一個影響力如果像這個計畫今年要結束那接著下來有沒有要繼續延續還有沒有要繼續加強這個部分我們跟原民會來討論好不好所以還要討論因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子\n394209\t413490\t它並不是文化部的那可是這件事情南島民族的確是我們非議裡面一個重要的項目但還記得嗎我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念而且要重視所謂的這個價值外交跟這個總和外交所以不是我應該是說要跨部會啦好\n414471\t434118\t應該是跨部會不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了因為這個文化的部分其實這個範圍是很大的包含外交部文化部原民會還有中研院甚至教育部我們其實都應該要來跨部會來做合作才對啊好那接下來我想問的就是那這個部分如果有更快的一個進程可以多久之後可以提供給我們\n436269\t456061\t兩個月會來討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇為什麼我說非移非常的重要今天是因為時間的關係所以我們就挑重點講為什麼說非移非常重要是因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上的其實已經對我們的所謂的本土包含我們這個南島語系的文化的遺跡\n457162\t479597\t那麼他們也把它要列入是中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中這其實已經是被他們登錄而且我們的這個項目當中已經有兩項是被他成功登錄變成是他們的世界非遺的部分那我們在這個部分我們有做什麼樣的一個防範的措施我們怎麼樣針對他們搶住他國文化資產的部分像之前他們也搶韓國的\n488223\t507754\t包含他們講說什麼不管是食鍋拌飯也好 泡菜也好那當然也被韓國他們批評說這個是完全在扭曲歷史但是我們知道這個中國他們是無孔不入啊他現在是連飛移的部分都有可能會入侵都有可能要搶先登陸這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策這個部分大家真的要協助那個尋求國際的\n513520\t535346\t這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助因為他這個整個審查的時候他送審我們因為我們沒有那個報考資格所以而且現在中國就一向主張他把我們發生在台灣今天他一次自己就把他以為是我們已經有領選優先推動的一些潛力的名錄了嘛那我們自己本身怎麼樣來防範這個部分我們還要經過跟國際來討論才能保護我們\n537586\t554601\t我是說防範中國把台灣的 包括南島或者是去登陸為他的飛役這個部分我們必須要國際的力量可是在國內上來講我們當然要持續的加強力道來輔助要怎麼加強力道 有沒有一些具體的實際的做法\n556231\t580972\t我們要加強力道不是嘴巴講啦要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為啊當然我們知道其實我們如果缺乏跟非裔整合跟國際的一個佈局的一個機制我們的所謂的這些非裔有可能就會被挪用了尤其是被中國挪用欸對啊 這個不是只有靠國外 靠國際我們自己本身怎麼守護啊有沒有一些具體的做法\n583002\t602572\t政府能做的角色就是基本上積極的努力的去補助我給你們一個方向給你們一個建議好不好我們是不是可以考慮成立建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制我們可以來加強比方說我們可以跟帛琉我們跟我們的友邦嘛我們跟我們的帛琉跟這個土瓦魯\n603092\t627934\t友邦一起來共同推動所謂的南島語系的飛移的申請我們一起來做好嗎那這個部分其實真的要快因為我們都知道其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已啊不是只有天天在我們的這個附近的海域在那邊演習而已啊他現在是蠶食精吞不管是用統戰的工具也好或者是他用任志作戰也好或者是他用\n628274\t647063\t菲夷連文化的部分都有可能會被他們拿去做挪用這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力文化部加油好嗎好因為今天時間的關係那如果有更新的一些進程麻煩提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 有請次長好 有請李次長\n非常早 今天部長沒來所以我的第一題跟時事相關的如果您知道多少就回答多少好了我想近期尤其是接下來可能暑假到了就有很多的海外的不管是韓團也好或者是一些偶像團體也好他們可能就會來台灣辦一些相關的不管是粉絲見面會也好或者是簽唱會等等\n那我們知道這個韓國的普寶英來台的活動喔那就是主辦方他們片面的就說要來延期那這件事情我不曉得這個文化部這邊知道他們延期的一個原因到底是什麼嗎那因為上次其實在這個泰國的這個偶像他們要來台灣喔但是呢之後就查到就是超級娛樂公司他們是有一個中資的一個背景喔\n那當然這個所謂的這個見面會當然也就取消了那但是接著下來其實我們也可能會面臨到有一些類似像這樣子的一個偶像的主辦方他們可能也會有所謂的這個中資的一個跨境的資金那我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益還有我們的國安的一些警訊那這個部分不知道文化部這邊掌握有多少\n好 剛剛謝謝委員的垂詢剛剛提到了幾個這種比較是韓團或韓星他們的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消這件事情應該判斷起來都還是商業上面的考慮是好\n當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣\n它是另外一種不同的形式的一個文化上的一個表演尤其是影視文化上的表演它所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人但是在這個主辦商的誠信登錄的一個制度其實我們是可以來做這樣子的一個比較外資深報透明的一個機制來掌握就是說它背後的這個資金的就是有沒有中資的一個背景\n這提醒給文化部好那我們進入今天的這個主題我想今天大家在討論的是我們台灣的世界遺產但是呢看得到的跟看不到的其實看不到的也很重要那我們今天來聚焦一下就我的部分我們來聚焦一下這些看不到的一些遺產我想這個為了銜接國際的一個制度我們是在2014年\n是看得到的台灣世界遺產的一個不管是點名領選或者是我們的一個除名的一個要點是2014年我們就已經訂定了但是呢我在這個地方要來說的是非遺的部分尤其是我們的潛力名錄的領選一個除名的這個作業的要點跟非遺的一個推動會是直到2022年\n整整是晚了八年左右但是這個非裔的部分其實也非常重要那尤其今天其實文化部雖然我們聚焦的專案報告是在所謂的這個看得到的這些就是看得到的這些世界遺產的部分\n但是呢反映在非裔在整體上的我們在政策上可能還是面臨這個可見度以及這個主流化不足的一個挑戰那我想呢這個無形當中的這些非裔的一個資產那特別是我們要再爭取這個國際文化話語權跟提升這個辨識度識別度的部分我們更仰賴所謂的這個科學的研究還有整個制度的一個結合還有政策的一個支持\n不然其實我們也很擔心飛移的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化那麼尤其是現在我們看得到的包含中國的部分他們其實也是蠢蠢欲動的要往這個飛移的部分尤其是台灣的飛移的部分要來這個驚吞蠶食應該可以這麼說\n我們向文化部來所知近三年非疑的調研還有保存的維護還有建立國際組織的夥伴的關係這樣子的經費其實是遠遠超過所謂的示疑的經費但是從制度面來講我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃我想問一下文化部這邊\n如果針對所謂這被遴選的12項的這個非移的部分的潛力的項目我們有沒有一些重點投入的一些項目\n好,謝謝委員的提問那這邊先跟委員說明一下,對非宜這項工作其實它的起步是一樣在民國98年,好,2009年就開始只是那時候我們並沒有分開來,我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面去執行是一直到了一百一十一、二十一、二十一、三十一、四十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十\n事情分開來然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理那現在我們有哪一些我剛剛講的這個12項的這個非移的這個項目我們是有投入在哪一個部分嗎應該講我們這12項都\n比較是平均的只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府有提出申請的時候我們都會盡量的寬於補助那只是他並沒有像剛剛講的在市移的部分我們有明確的去討論出來說只推集中力量去推那個阿里山森林鐵路在非移的部分因為每一項委員會看起來就每一下都很重要都捨不得\n所以有沒有一個比較確定的一些進程我比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族的一個論壇六年計畫其實到今年為止可能我們就要結束囉那這個部分已經要結束的話那有沒有可能再把這個部分的不管是轉化到他的戰略的一個格局\n轉化成所謂的非疑的一個國際論述的一個基礎來強化我們自己在文化上的一個主權跟國際的一個影響力如果像這個計畫今年要結束那接著下來有沒有要繼續延續還有沒有要繼續加強這個部分我們跟原民會來討論好不好所以還要討論因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子\n它並不是文化部的那可是這件事情南島民族的確是我們非議裡面一個重要的項目但還記得嗎我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念而且要重視所謂的這個價值外交跟這個總和外交所以不是我應該是說要跨部會啦好\n應該是跨部會不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了因為這個文化的部分其實這個範圍是很大的包含外交部文化部原民會還有中研院甚至教育部我們其實都應該要來跨部會來做合作才對啊好那接下來我想問的就是那這個部分如果有更快的一個進程可以多久之後可以提供給我們\n兩個月會來討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇為什麼我說非移非常的重要今天是因為時間的關係所以我們就挑重點講為什麼說非移非常重要是因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上的其實已經對我們的所謂的本土包含我們這個南島語系的文化的遺跡\n那麼他們也把它要列入是中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中這其實已經是被他們登錄而且我們的這個項目當中已經有兩項是被他成功登錄變成是他們的世界非遺的部分那我們在這個部分我們有做什麼樣的一個防範的措施我們怎麼樣針對他們搶住他國文化資產的部分像之前他們也搶韓國的\n包含他們講說什麼不管是食鍋拌飯也好 泡菜也好那當然也被韓國他們批評說這個是完全在扭曲歷史但是我們知道這個中國他們是無孔不入啊他現在是連飛移的部分都有可能會入侵都有可能要搶先登陸這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策這個部分大家真的要協助那個尋求國際的\n這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助因為他這個整個審查的時候他送審我們因為我們沒有那個報考資格所以而且現在中國就一向主張他把我們發生在台灣今天他一次自己就把他以為是我們已經有領選優先推動的一些潛力的名錄了嘛那我們自己本身怎麼樣來防範這個部分我們還要經過跟國際來討論才能保護我們\n我是說防範中國把台灣的 包括南島或者是去登陸為他的飛役這個部分我們必須要國際的力量可是在國內上來講我們當然要持續的加強力道來輔助要怎麼加強力道 有沒有一些具體的實際的做法\n我們要加強力道不是嘴巴講啦要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為啊當然我們知道其實我們如果缺乏跟非裔整合跟國際的一個佈局的一個機制我們的所謂的這些非裔有可能就會被挪用了尤其是被中國挪用欸對啊 這個不是只有靠國外 靠國際我們自己本身怎麼守護啊有沒有一些具體的做法\n政府能做的角色就是基本上積極的努力的去補助我給你們一個方向給你們一個建議好不好我們是不是可以考慮成立建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制我們可以來加強比方說我們可以跟帛琉我們跟我們的友邦嘛我們跟我們的帛琉跟這個土瓦魯\n友邦一起來共同推動所謂的南島語系的飛移的申請我們一起來做好嗎那這個部分其實真的要快因為我們都知道其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已啊不是只有天天在我們的這個附近的海域在那邊演習而已啊他現在是蠶食精吞不管是用統戰的工具也好或者是他用任志作戰也好或者是他用\n菲夷連文化的部分都有可能會被他們拿去做挪用這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力文化部加油好嗎好因為今天時間的關係那如果有更新的一些進程麻煩提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.183 --> 00:06.779\n好謝謝主席有請次長好有請李次長\n\n00:12.726 --> 00:36.145\n非常早今天部長沒來所以我的第一題跟時事相關的如果您知道多少就回答多少好了我想近期尤其是接下來可能暑假到了就有很多的海外的不管是韓團也好或者是一些偶像團體也好他們可能就會來台灣辦一些相關的不管是粉絲見面會也好或者是簽唱會等等\n\n00:36.966 --> 01:01.406\n那我們知道這個韓國的普寶英來台的活動喔那就是主辦方他們片面的就說要來延期那這件事情我不曉得這個文化部這邊知道他們延期的一個原因到底是什麼嗎那因為上次其實在這個泰國的這個偶像他們要來台灣喔但是呢之後就查到就是超級娛樂公司他們是有一個中資的一個背景喔\n\n01:01.986 --> 01:26.657\n那當然這個所謂的這個見面會當然也就取消了那但是接著下來其實我們也可能會面臨到有一些類似像這樣子的一個偶像的主辦方他們可能也會有所謂的這個中資的一個跨境的資金那我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益還有我們的國安的一些警訊那這個部分不知道文化部這邊掌握有多少\n\n01:29.192 --> 01:45.229\n好剛剛謝謝委員的垂詢剛剛提到了幾個這種比較是韓團或韓星他們的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消這件事情應該判斷起來都還是商業上面的考慮是好\n\n01:49.032 --> 02:07.187\n當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣\n\n02:08.308 --> 02:30.369\n它是另外一種不同的形式的一個文化上的一個表演尤其是影視文化上的表演它所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人但是在這個主辦商的誠信登錄的一個制度其實我們是可以來做這樣子的一個比較外資深報透明的一個機制來掌握就是說它背後的這個資金的就是有沒有中資的一個背景\n\n02:31.109 --> 02:48.879\n這提醒給文化部好那我們進入今天的這個主題我想今天大家在討論的是我們台灣的世界遺產但是呢看得到的跟看不到的其實看不到的也很重要那我們今天來聚焦一下就我的部分我們來聚焦一下這些看不到的一些遺產我想這個為了銜接國際的一個制度我們是在2014年\n\n02:53.681 --> 03:14.693\n是看得到的台灣世界遺產的一個不管是點名領選或者是我們的一個除名的一個要點是2014年我們就已經訂定了但是呢我在這個地方要來說的是非遺的部分尤其是我們的潛力名錄的領選一個除名的這個作業的要點跟非遺的一個推動會是直到2022年\n\n03:16.354 --> 03:31.117\n整整是晚了八年左右但是這個非裔的部分其實也非常重要那尤其今天其實文化部雖然我們聚焦的專案報告是在所謂的這個看得到的這些就是看得到的這些世界遺產的部分\n\n03:31.678 --> 03:43.388\n但是呢反映在非裔在整體上的我們在政策上可能還是面臨這個可見度以及這個主流化不足的一個挑戰那我想呢這個無形當中的這些非裔的一個資產那特別是我們要再爭取這個國際文化話語權跟提升這個辨識度識別度的部分我們更仰賴所謂的這個科學的研究還有整個制度的一個結合還有政策的一個支持\n\n03:58.920 --> 04:13.754\n不然其實我們也很擔心飛移的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化那麼尤其是現在我們看得到的包含中國的部分他們其實也是蠢蠢欲動的要往這個飛移的部分尤其是台灣的飛移的部分要來這個驚吞蠶食應該可以這麼說\n\n04:17.714 --> 04:26.200\n我們向文化部來所知近三年非疑的調研還有保存的維護還有建立國際組織的夥伴的關係這樣子的經費其實是遠遠超過所謂的示疑的經費但是從制度面來講我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃我想問一下文化部這邊\n\n04:39.449 --> 04:41.132\n如果針對所謂這被遴選的12項的這個非移的部分的潛力的項目我們有沒有一些重點投入的一些項目\n\n04:50.418 --> 05:14.973\n好,謝謝委員的提問那這邊先跟委員說明一下,對非宜這項工作其實它的起步是一樣在民國98年,好,2009年就開始只是那時候我們並沒有分開來,我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面去執行是一直到了一百一十一、二十一、二十一、三十一、四十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十\n\n05:15.493 --> 05:27.187\n事情分開來然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理那現在我們有哪一些我剛剛講的這個12項的這個非移的這個項目我們是有投入在哪一個部分嗎應該講我們這12項都\n\n05:30.984 --> 05:54.491\n比較是平均的只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府有提出申請的時候我們都會盡量的寬於補助那只是他並沒有像剛剛講的在市移的部分我們有明確的去討論出來說只推集中力量去推那個阿里山森林鐵路在非移的部分因為每一項委員會看起來就每一下都很重要都捨不得\n\n05:55.291 --> 06:12.712\n所以有沒有一個比較確定的一些進程我比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族的一個論壇六年計畫其實到今年為止可能我們就要結束囉那這個部分已經要結束的話那有沒有可能再把這個部分的不管是轉化到他的戰略的一個格局\n\n06:13.292 --> 06:33.222\n轉化成所謂的非疑的一個國際論述的一個基礎來強化我們自己在文化上的一個主權跟國際的一個影響力如果像這個計畫今年要結束那接著下來有沒有要繼續延續還有沒有要繼續加強這個部分我們跟原民會來討論好不好所以還要討論因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子\n\n06:34.209 --> 06:53.490\n它並不是文化部的那可是這件事情南島民族的確是我們非議裡面一個重要的項目但還記得嗎我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念而且要重視所謂的這個價值外交跟這個總和外交所以不是我應該是說要跨部會啦好\n\n06:54.471 --> 07:14.118\n應該是跨部會不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了因為這個文化的部分其實這個範圍是很大的包含外交部文化部原民會還有中研院甚至教育部我們其實都應該要來跨部會來做合作才對啊好那接下來我想問的就是那這個部分如果有更快的一個進程可以多久之後可以提供給我們\n\n07:16.269 --> 07:36.061\n兩個月會來討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇為什麼我說非移非常的重要今天是因為時間的關係所以我們就挑重點講為什麼說非移非常重要是因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上的其實已經對我們的所謂的本土包含我們這個南島語系的文化的遺跡\n\n07:37.162 --> 07:59.597\n那麼他們也把它要列入是中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中這其實已經是被他們登錄而且我們的這個項目當中已經有兩項是被他成功登錄變成是他們的世界非遺的部分那我們在這個部分我們有做什麼樣的一個防範的措施我們怎麼樣針對他們搶住他國文化資產的部分像之前他們也搶韓國的\n\n08:08.223 --> 08:27.754\n包含他們講說什麼不管是食鍋拌飯也好泡菜也好那當然也被韓國他們批評說這個是完全在扭曲歷史但是我們知道這個中國他們是無孔不入啊他現在是連飛移的部分都有可能會入侵都有可能要搶先登陸這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策這個部分大家真的要協助那個尋求國際的\n\n08:33.520 --> 08:55.346\n這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助因為他這個整個審查的時候他送審我們因為我們沒有那個報考資格所以而且現在中國就一向主張他把我們發生在台灣今天他一次自己就把他以為是我們已經有領選優先推動的一些潛力的名錄了嘛那我們自己本身怎麼樣來防範這個部分我們還要經過跟國際來討論才能保護我們\n\n08:57.586 --> 09:14.601\n我是說防範中國把台灣的包括南島或者是去登陸為他的飛役這個部分我們必須要國際的力量可是在國內上來講我們當然要持續的加強力道來輔助要怎麼加強力道有沒有一些具體的實際的做法\n\n09:16.231 --> 09:40.972\n我們要加強力道不是嘴巴講啦要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為啊當然我們知道其實我們如果缺乏跟非裔整合跟國際的一個佈局的一個機制我們的所謂的這些非裔有可能就會被挪用了尤其是被中國挪用欸對啊這個不是只有靠國外靠國際我們自己本身怎麼守護啊有沒有一些具體的做法\n\n09:43.002 --> 10:02.572\n政府能做的角色就是基本上積極的努力的去補助我給你們一個方向給你們一個建議好不好我們是不是可以考慮成立建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制我們可以來加強比方說我們可以跟帛琉我們跟我們的友邦嘛我們跟我們的帛琉跟這個土瓦魯\n\n10:03.092 --> 10:27.934\n友邦一起來共同推動所謂的南島語系的飛移的申請我們一起來做好嗎那這個部分其實真的要快因為我們都知道其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已啊不是只有天天在我們的這個附近的海域在那邊演習而已啊他現在是蠶食精吞不管是用統戰的工具也好或者是他用任志作戰也好或者是他用\n\n10:28.274 --> 10:47.063\n菲夷連文化的部分都有可能會被他們拿去做挪用這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力文化部加油好嗎好因為今天時間的關係那如果有更新的一些進程麻煩提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.183,"end":6.779,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請次長好 有請李次長"},{"start":12.726,"end":36.145,"text":"非常早 今天部長沒來所以我的第一題跟時事相關的如果您知道多少就回答多少好了我想近期尤其是接下來可能暑假到了就有很多的海外的不管是韓團也好或者是一些偶像團體也好他們可能就會來台灣辦一些相關的不管是粉絲見面會也好或者是簽唱會等等"},{"start":36.966,"end":61.406,"text":"那我們知道這個韓國的普寶英來台的活動喔那就是主辦方他們片面的就說要來延期那這件事情我不曉得這個文化部這邊知道他們延期的一個原因到底是什麼嗎那因為上次其實在這個泰國的這個偶像他們要來台灣喔但是呢之後就查到就是超級娛樂公司他們是有一個中資的一個背景喔"},{"start":61.986,"end":86.657,"text":"那當然這個所謂的這個見面會當然也就取消了那但是接著下來其實我們也可能會面臨到有一些類似像這樣子的一個偶像的主辦方他們可能也會有所謂的這個中資的一個跨境的資金那我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益還有我們的國安的一些警訊那這個部分不知道文化部這邊掌握有多少"},{"start":89.192,"end":105.229,"text":"好 剛剛謝謝委員的垂詢剛剛提到了幾個這種比較是韓團或韓星他們的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消這件事情應該判斷起來都還是商業上面的考慮是好"},{"start":109.032,"end":127.187,"text":"當然我們後來也去求證了啦就是他們可能是因為內部也許是這個票房不好或者是票賣的不好是他們自己內部的延期的取消啦但是我想要提醒文化部的就是喔就是我們建議喔就是之後如果有類似的像這樣子的海外的偶像團體要來到台灣"},{"start":128.308,"end":150.369,"text":"它是另外一種不同的形式的一個文化上的一個表演尤其是影視文化上的表演它所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人但是在這個主辦商的誠信登錄的一個制度其實我們是可以來做這樣子的一個比較外資深報透明的一個機制來掌握就是說它背後的這個資金的就是有沒有中資的一個背景"},{"start":151.109,"end":168.879,"text":"這提醒給文化部好那我們進入今天的這個主題我想今天大家在討論的是我們台灣的世界遺產但是呢看得到的跟看不到的其實看不到的也很重要那我們今天來聚焦一下就我的部分我們來聚焦一下這些看不到的一些遺產我想這個為了銜接國際的一個制度我們是在2014年"},{"start":173.681,"end":194.693,"text":"是看得到的台灣世界遺產的一個不管是點名領選或者是我們的一個除名的一個要點是2014年我們就已經訂定了但是呢我在這個地方要來說的是非遺的部分尤其是我們的潛力名錄的領選一個除名的這個作業的要點跟非遺的一個推動會是直到2022年"},{"start":196.354,"end":211.117,"text":"整整是晚了八年左右但是這個非裔的部分其實也非常重要那尤其今天其實文化部雖然我們聚焦的專案報告是在所謂的這個看得到的這些就是看得到的這些世界遺產的部分"},{"start":211.678,"end":223.388,"text":"但是呢反映在非裔在整體上的我們在政策上可能還是面臨這個可見度以及這個主流化不足的一個挑戰那我想呢這個無形當中的這些非裔的一個資產那特別是我們要再爭取這個國際文化話語權跟提升這個辨識度識別度的部分我們更仰賴所謂的這個科學的研究還有整個制度的一個結合還有政策的一個支持"},{"start":238.92,"end":253.754,"text":"不然其實我們也很擔心飛移的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化那麼尤其是現在我們看得到的包含中國的部分他們其實也是蠢蠢欲動的要往這個飛移的部分尤其是台灣的飛移的部分要來這個驚吞蠶食應該可以這麼說"},{"start":257.714,"end":266.2,"text":"我們向文化部來所知近三年非疑的調研還有保存的維護還有建立國際組織的夥伴的關係這樣子的經費其實是遠遠超過所謂的示疑的經費但是從制度面來講我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃我想問一下文化部這邊"},{"start":279.449,"end":281.132,"text":"如果針對所謂這被遴選的12項的這個非移的部分的潛力的項目我們有沒有一些重點投入的一些項目"},{"start":290.418,"end":314.973,"text":"好,謝謝委員的提問那這邊先跟委員說明一下,對非宜這項工作其實它的起步是一樣在民國98年,好,2009年就開始只是那時候我們並沒有分開來,我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面去執行是一直到了一百一十一、二十一、二十一、三十一、四十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、六十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十一、五十"},{"start":315.493,"end":327.187,"text":"事情分開來然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理那現在我們有哪一些我剛剛講的這個12項的這個非移的這個項目我們是有投入在哪一個部分嗎應該講我們這12項都"},{"start":330.984,"end":354.491,"text":"比較是平均的只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府有提出申請的時候我們都會盡量的寬於補助那只是他並沒有像剛剛講的在市移的部分我們有明確的去討論出來說只推集中力量去推那個阿里山森林鐵路在非移的部分因為每一項委員會看起來就每一下都很重要都捨不得"},{"start":355.291,"end":372.712,"text":"所以有沒有一個比較確定的一些進程我比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族的一個論壇六年計畫其實到今年為止可能我們就要結束囉那這個部分已經要結束的話那有沒有可能再把這個部分的不管是轉化到他的戰略的一個格局"},{"start":373.292,"end":393.222,"text":"轉化成所謂的非疑的一個國際論述的一個基礎來強化我們自己在文化上的一個主權跟國際的一個影響力如果像這個計畫今年要結束那接著下來有沒有要繼續延續還有沒有要繼續加強這個部分我們跟原民會來討論好不好所以還要討論因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子"},{"start":394.209,"end":413.49,"text":"它並不是文化部的那可是這件事情南島民族的確是我們非議裡面一個重要的項目但還記得嗎我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念而且要重視所謂的這個價值外交跟這個總和外交所以不是我應該是說要跨部會啦好"},{"start":414.471,"end":434.118,"text":"應該是跨部會不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了因為這個文化的部分其實這個範圍是很大的包含外交部文化部原民會還有中研院甚至教育部我們其實都應該要來跨部會來做合作才對啊好那接下來我想問的就是那這個部分如果有更快的一個進程可以多久之後可以提供給我們"},{"start":436.269,"end":456.061,"text":"兩個月會來討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇為什麼我說非移非常的重要今天是因為時間的關係所以我們就挑重點講為什麼說非移非常重要是因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上的其實已經對我們的所謂的本土包含我們這個南島語系的文化的遺跡"},{"start":457.162,"end":479.597,"text":"那麼他們也把它要列入是中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中這其實已經是被他們登錄而且我們的這個項目當中已經有兩項是被他成功登錄變成是他們的世界非遺的部分那我們在這個部分我們有做什麼樣的一個防範的措施我們怎麼樣針對他們搶住他國文化資產的部分像之前他們也搶韓國的"},{"start":488.223,"end":507.754,"text":"包含他們講說什麼不管是食鍋拌飯也好 泡菜也好那當然也被韓國他們批評說這個是完全在扭曲歷史但是我們知道這個中國他們是無孔不入啊他現在是連飛移的部分都有可能會入侵都有可能要搶先登陸這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策這個部分大家真的要協助那個尋求國際的"},{"start":513.52,"end":535.346,"text":"這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助因為他這個整個審查的時候他送審我們因為我們沒有那個報考資格所以而且現在中國就一向主張他把我們發生在台灣今天他一次自己就把他以為是我們已經有領選優先推動的一些潛力的名錄了嘛那我們自己本身怎麼樣來防範這個部分我們還要經過跟國際來討論才能保護我們"},{"start":537.586,"end":554.601,"text":"我是說防範中國把台灣的 包括南島或者是去登陸為他的飛役這個部分我們必須要國際的力量可是在國內上來講我們當然要持續的加強力道來輔助要怎麼加強力道 有沒有一些具體的實際的做法"},{"start":556.231,"end":580.972,"text":"我們要加強力道不是嘴巴講啦要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為啊當然我們知道其實我們如果缺乏跟非裔整合跟國際的一個佈局的一個機制我們的所謂的這些非裔有可能就會被挪用了尤其是被中國挪用欸對啊 這個不是只有靠國外 靠國際我們自己本身怎麼守護啊有沒有一些具體的做法"},{"start":583.002,"end":602.572,"text":"政府能做的角色就是基本上積極的努力的去補助我給你們一個方向給你們一個建議好不好我們是不是可以考慮成立建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制我們可以來加強比方說我們可以跟帛琉我們跟我們的友邦嘛我們跟我們的帛琉跟這個土瓦魯"},{"start":603.092,"end":627.934,"text":"友邦一起來共同推動所謂的南島語系的飛移的申請我們一起來做好嗎那這個部分其實真的要快因為我們都知道其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已啊不是只有天天在我們的這個附近的海域在那邊演習而已啊他現在是蠶食精吞不管是用統戰的工具也好或者是他用任志作戰也好或者是他用"},{"start":628.274,"end":647.063,"text":"菲夷連文化的部分都有可能會被他們拿去做挪用這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力文化部加油好嗎好因為今天時間的關係那如果有更新的一些進程麻煩提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":369,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（10時20分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：有請李次長。"],["李次長靜慧：委員早。"],["郭委員昱晴：次長早。今天部長沒來，我的第一題是跟時事相關，您知道多少就回答多少好了。近期，尤其是接下來暑假到了，就有很多海外的不管是韓團也好，或者是一些偶像團體也好，他們可能會來臺灣辦相關的粉絲見面會或者是簽唱會等等。我們知道韓國朴寶英預計來臺的活動，主辦方片面表示要延期，針對這件事情，文化部是否知道他們延期的原因是什麼？上次泰國的偶像要來臺灣，但是之後就查到超奇娛樂公司有中資的背景，當然這個所謂的見面會也就取消了。但是接著下來，我們也可能會面臨類似像這樣的情況，就是偶像的主辦方可能也會有中資的跨境資金，我想這個會影響到的就是粉絲的權益，還有我們國安的一些警訊，這個部分不知道文化部掌握多少？"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝委員的垂詢，剛剛提到幾個韓團或韓星的見面會為什麼會延期或是取消，這件事情判斷起來應該都還是商業上面的考慮啦。"],["郭委員昱晴：當然，我們後來也去求證了，他們可能是因為內部的因素，也許是票房不好、票賣得不好，是他們自己內部決定延期、取消啦。但是我想要提醒文化部的就是，我們建議之後如果有類似像這樣的海外偶像團體要來到臺灣，它是另外一種不同形式的文化上的表演，尤其是影視文化上的表演，所接觸的可能都會是很多的年輕人，對於主辦商誠信登錄的制度，其實我們可以做一個讓外資申報透明的機制予以掌握，也就是說，背後的資金有沒有中資的背景，這個提醒給文化部。","好，我們進入今天的主題，今天大家在討論的是臺灣的世界遺產，這個有看得到的跟看不到的，其實看不到的也很重要，今天我的部分就是我們來聚焦一些看不到的遺產。","為了銜接國際的制度，我們是在2014年對於看得到的世界遺產公布實施了「臺灣世界遺產潛力點遴選及除名作業要點」，但是我在這個地方要說的是非遺的部分，尤其是我們的潛力名錄遴選及除名作業要點跟非遺的推動會直到2022年才發布與成立，整整晚了8年左右，但是非遺的部分其實也非常重要。今天雖然文化部的專案報告是聚焦在所謂看得到的這些世界遺產，但是非遺在整體的政策上，可能還是面臨可見度以及主流化不足的一個挑戰。","我想無形的非遺資產，特別是我們要爭取國際文化話語權跟提升識別度的部分，我們更仰賴所謂的科學研究，還有整個制度的結合及政策的支持，不然其實我們也很擔心非遺的部分會慢慢的被邊緣化。尤其是現在我們看到包含中國其實也是蠢蠢欲動，要往非遺的部分，特別是臺灣的非遺部分，要來鯨吞蠶食，應該可以這麼說。我們向文化部索資近三年非遺調研及保存、維護，還有建立國際組織夥伴關係的相關經費明細，發現其實遠遠超過世遺的經費。但是從制度面來講，我覺得我們並沒有明確的一個規劃。我想問一下文化部，針對這被遴選的12項非遺部分的潛力項目，我們有沒有一些重點投入的項目？"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝委員的提問，這邊先跟委員說明一下，對非遺這項工作，其實它的起步一樣是在民國98年（2009年）就開始，只是那時候我們並沒有分開來，我們是把看得見的跟看不見的都同在一個推動委員會裡面執行，一直到了112年……"],["郭委員昱晴：但作業要點是到2022年才設立的。"],["李次長靜慧：對，才把這兩個事情分開來，然後現在也有兩個不同的推動會在處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：那現在我們有哪一些？我剛剛講的，這12項非遺的項目，我們有投入在哪一個部分嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：應該這樣講，我們這12項都是比較平均的，只要有民間單位或是地方縣市政府提出申請的時候，我們都會儘量寬予補助，只是它並沒有像剛剛講的，在世遺的部分，我們有明確的討論出說集中力量去推阿里山森林鐵路；在非遺的部分，因為委員們看起來每一項都很重要、都捨不得，只有一個……"],["郭委員昱晴：所以有沒有一個比較確定的進程？"],["李次長靜慧：沒有。"],["郭委員昱晴：比方說像我們現在畫面當中看到的南島民族論壇6年計畫，其實到今年為止可能就要結束了，這個部分已經要結束的話，有沒有可能再把這個部分的，不管是將它的戰略格局轉化成非遺的一個國際論述基礎，強化我們自己在文化上的主權跟國際的影響力？如果這個計畫今年要結束，接著下來有沒有要繼續延續？還有沒有要繼續加強？"],["李次長靜慧：這個部分我們跟原民會討論，好不好？"],["郭委員昱晴：所以還要討論？"],["李次長靜慧：因為南島民族論壇本來就是原民會的案子，它並不是文化部的，可是這件事情，南島民族的確是我們非遺裡面一個重要的項目。"],["郭委員昱晴：但還記得嗎？我們文化部跟外交部日前才強調，就是我們部部都是外交部的一個概念，而且要重視所謂的價值外交跟總合外交，所以我們應該說要跨部會啦！"],["李次長靜慧：好。"],["郭委員昱晴：應該是跨部會，不是推給我們的原民會就沒事了，因為這個文化的部分，其實範圍是很大的，包含外交部、文化部、原民會，還有中研院，甚至教育部，我們其實都應該要跨部會合作才對啊！"],["李次長靜慧：好，我們會努力。"],["郭委員昱晴：接下來我想問的……這個部分如果有更快的進程，多久之後可以提供給我們？"],["李次長靜慧：兩個月好嗎？我們跟原民會討論一下怎麼樣進行下一個階段的論壇。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。為什麼我說非遺非常的重要？今天是因為時間的關係，所以我們就挑重點講，為什麼說非遺非常重要？因為中國文化他們在整合戰略上，其實已經對我們所謂的本土，包含我們南島語系的文化遺跡，也把它列入中國世界文化遺跡的預備名單當中，這其實已經被他們登錄，而且這個項目當中，已經有兩項被他成功登錄，變成他們的世界非遺。我們在這個部分有做什麼樣的防範措施？我們怎麼樣針對他們搶他國文化資產？像之前他們也搶韓國的，那當然引起韓國非常大的反彈，包含他們就講不管是石鍋拌飯也好，泡菜也好，當然也被韓國批評，說這個完全在扭曲歷史，但是我們知道中國無孔不入，現在連非遺的部分都有可能會入侵，都有可能要搶先登錄。這個部分我們有沒有因應的對策？"],["李次長靜慧：這個部分真的要尋求國際的這些專家學者或是國際組織的協助，因為整個審查的時候，他送審，而我們沒有報考資格，而且現在中國一向主張發生在臺灣境內的東西，他自己就把他移為是他自己國內的。"],["郭委員昱晴：不是，我們已經有遴選優先推動的一些潛力名錄了嘛！我們自己本身怎麼樣防範這個部分？我們還要經過跟國際討論，才能保護我們自己本身？"],["李次長靜慧：沒有，我是說防範中國把臺灣的，包括南島或者是登錄為他的非遺，這個部分我們必須要國際的力量，可是在國內來講，我們當然要持續加強力道輔助或者是……"],["郭委員昱晴：要怎麼加強力道？有沒有一些具體的、實際的作法？要加強力道不是嘴巴講，要加強力道其實要有一些實際的作為。當然我們知道，如果缺乏非遺整合跟國際布局的一個機制，我們的這些非遺有可能就會被挪用，尤其是被中國挪用耶！對啊！這個不是只有靠國外、靠國際，我們自己本身怎麼守護，有沒有一些具體的作法？"],["李次長靜慧：政府能做的角色，真的基本上就是積極的、努力的補助或協助……"],["郭委員昱晴：好，給你們一個方向，給你們一個建議，好不好？我們是不是可以考慮成立、建立南島文化國際協作的一個機制，我們可以加強，比方說我們可以跟帛琉，我們跟我們的友邦，我們跟帛琉、吐瓦魯等友邦一起共同推動南島語系的非遺申請，我們一起來做好嗎？這個部分真的要快，因為我們都知道，其實中國對我們不是只有飛機派來在那邊飛而已，不是只有天天在我們附近的海域演習而已，他現在是蠶食鯨吞，不管是用統戰的工具也好，或者是他用認知作戰也好，或者是他用非遺，連文化的部分都有可能被他們拿挪用。這個部分真的要靠大家一起努力，文化部加油好嗎？因為今天時間的關係，如果有更新的一些進程，麻煩提供給我們辦公室，謝謝。"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝、謝謝委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝次長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員，次長請回。","我們接下來請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","張雅琳","范雲","林沛祥","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","萬美玲","吳思瑤","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳培瑜","林月琴","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","葉元之","謝龍介","林倩綺"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1145701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部次長李靜慧列席，就「臺灣世界遺產潛力點推動現況，暨欲求申登世界遺產必先完善\n我國潛力點保存」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145701_00002"}}}