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{\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 86.428, \"end\": 86.788, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 86.788, \"end\": 87.248, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 87.248, \"end\": 87.368, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 87.368, \"end\": 87.528, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 87.528, \"end\": 87.648, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 87.648, \"end\": 87.808, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 87.808, \"end\": 87.968, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 87.968, \"end\": 88.188, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"薪\", \"start\": 88.188, \"end\": 88.389, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 88.389, \"end\": 88.509, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.509, \"end\": 88.649, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 88.649, \"end\": 88.749, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 88.749, \"end\": 88.929, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 88.929, \"end\": 89.029, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 89.029, \"end\": 89.129, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 89.129, \"end\": 89.249, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 89.249, \"end\": 89.329, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 89.329, \"end\": 89.569, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 89.569, \"end\": 89.589, \"score\": 0.993}]}, {\"start\": 90.151, \"end\": 117.773, \"text\": \"那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 90.151, \"end\": 90.291, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 90.291, \"end\": 90.371, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 90.371, \"end\": 90.751, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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\"start\": 135.088, \"end\": 135.788, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 135.788, \"end\": 136.108, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 136.108, \"end\": 136.349, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.349, \"end\": 136.509, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 136.509, \"end\": 136.709, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 136.709, \"end\": 136.929, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 136.929, \"end\": 137.249, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 137.249, \"end\": 137.59, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 137.59, \"end\": 137.85, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 137.85, \"end\": 138.23, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.23, \"end\": 138.571, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 138.571, \"end\": 139.111, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 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00:00:51,441\n他一樣是增加預算不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張所以這個案子原本是可以討論的所以去年我們在討論這件事情的時候其實非常的簡單因為如果用主決議的方式先建議比如說行政院建議退府去擬出相關的方案\n\n3\n00:00:51,921 --> 00:01:10,282\n把這個提出來之後呢再來針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女說真的這樣是可以討論的但萬萬卻沒有想到呢最後明明在當時呢用主決議可以去決定的事情現在又一樣的硬是要用入法的方式來處理\n\n4\n00:01:11,303 --> 00:01:29,589\n那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題就是立法院其實實質上不能夠直接去做增加預算今天行政體系他不管是要加薪或者要把那個紅線畫在哪裡其實都有行政的彈性那要不然為什麼4月1號就已經有先做加薪了那時候立法院沒有立法\n\n5\n00:01:30,151 --> 00:01:57,773\n那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神\n\n6\n00:01:58,473 --> 00:02:19,792\n所以在106年的時候呢那時候也是一樣喔是做決議喔也不是法案是做決議基於照顧弱勢跟肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情呢進行調整所以從106年開始呢除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力人於補助之外所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準本來是用25000畫這條線113年畫成28000\n\n7\n00:02:23,835 --> 00:02:52,140\n然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早所以呢他退役早的時候呢他子女可能還在上學啊所以就改成用官階的身份啊那個時候就是用這個本來的金額以及試算過後就是把那條線劃在中校如果要調整其實也可以直接做調整他可以討論但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情結果現在卻用這樣的直接立法的方式又變成是一種不好好討論最終要通過立法\n\n8\n00:02:52,620 --> 00:03:13,649\n那更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校這個三萬五啊學貸的減壓什麼等等之類的所以還是要再次建議我們這個在野黨就是說我們不要讓這個資源重合也不要讓這個討論失焦用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣的一個粗暴的立法上謝謝好謝謝沈博洋委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10193\t30831\t主席 各位委員 那這個呢我覺得啦 我們是有一說一 有二說二剛剛這個軍人待遇條例可以說是亂七八糟連這個最基本的法制的ABC都沒有遵守但現在我們要討論的這一條 相對來講第一個 它至少是有討論過的它在什麼時候討論呢 它其實在上一屆就討論過了在這一屆也討論過了\n33553\t51441\t他一樣是增加預算不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張所以這個案子原本是可以討論的所以去年我們在討論這件事情的時候其實非常的簡單因為如果用主決議的方式先建議比如說行政院建議退府去擬出相關的方案\n51921\t70282\t把這個提出來之後呢再來針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女說真的這樣是可以討論的但萬萬卻沒有想到呢最後明明在當時呢用主決議可以去決定的事情現在又一樣的硬是要用入法的方式來處理\n71303\t89589\t那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題就是立法院其實實質上不能夠直接去做增加預算今天行政體系他不管是要加薪或者要把那個紅線畫在哪裡其實都有行政的彈性那要不然為什麼4月1號就已經有先做加薪了那時候立法院沒有立法\n90151\t117773\t那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神\n118473\t139792\t所以在106年的時候呢 那時候也是一樣喔 是做決議喔 也不是法案 是做決議基於照顧弱勢跟肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情呢 進行調整所以從106年開始呢 除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力人於補助之外所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準本來是用25000畫這條線 113年畫成28000\n143835\t172140\t然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早所以呢他退役早的時候呢他子女可能還在上學啊所以就改成用官階的身份啊那個時候就是用這個本來的金額以及試算過後就是把那條線劃在中校如果要調整其實也可以直接做調整他可以討論但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情結果現在卻用這樣的直接立法的方式又變成是一種不好好討論最終要通過立法\n172620\t193649\t那更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校這個三萬五啊學貸的減壓什麼等等之類的所以還是要再次建議我們這個在野黨就是說我們不要讓這個資源重合也不要讓這個討論失焦用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣的一個粗暴的立法上謝謝好 謝謝沈博洋委員的發言\n","txt":"主席 各位委員 那這個呢我覺得啦 我們是有一說一 有二說二剛剛這個軍人待遇條例可以說是亂七八糟連這個最基本的法制的ABC都沒有遵守但現在我們要討論的這一條 相對來講第一個 它至少是有討論過的它在什麼時候討論呢 它其實在上一屆就討論過了在這一屆也討論過了\n他一樣是增加預算不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張所以這個案子原本是可以討論的所以去年我們在討論這件事情的時候其實非常的簡單因為如果用主決議的方式先建議比如說行政院建議退府去擬出相關的方案\n把這個提出來之後呢再來針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女說真的這樣是可以討論的但萬萬卻沒有想到呢最後明明在當時呢用主決議可以去決定的事情現在又一樣的硬是要用入法的方式來處理\n那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題就是立法院其實實質上不能夠直接去做增加預算今天行政體系他不管是要加薪或者要把那個紅線畫在哪裡其實都有行政的彈性那要不然為什麼4月1號就已經有先做加薪了那時候立法院沒有立法\n那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神\n所以在106年的時候呢 那時候也是一樣喔 是做決議喔 也不是法案 是做決議基於照顧弱勢跟肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情呢 進行調整所以從106年開始呢 除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力人於補助之外所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準本來是用25000畫這條線 113年畫成28000\n然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早所以呢他退役早的時候呢他子女可能還在上學啊所以就改成用官階的身份啊那個時候就是用這個本來的金額以及試算過後就是把那條線劃在中校如果要調整其實也可以直接做調整他可以討論但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情結果現在卻用這樣的直接立法的方式又變成是一種不好好討論最終要通過立法\n那更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校這個三萬五啊學貸的減壓什麼等等之類的所以還是要再次建議我們這個在野黨就是說我們不要讓這個資源重合也不要讓這個討論失焦用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣的一個粗暴的立法上謝謝好 謝謝沈博洋委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.193 --> 00:30.831\n主席各位委員那這個呢我覺得啦我們是有一說一有二說二剛剛這個軍人待遇條例可以說是亂七八糟連這個最基本的法制的ABC都沒有遵守但現在我們要討論的這一條相對來講第一個它至少是有討論過的它在什麼時候討論呢它其實在上一屆就討論過了在這一屆也討論過了\n\n00:33.553 --> 00:51.441\n他一樣是增加預算不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張所以這個案子原本是可以討論的所以去年我們在討論這件事情的時候其實非常的簡單因為如果用主決議的方式先建議比如說行政院建議退府去擬出相關的方案\n\n00:51.921 --> 01:10.282\n把這個提出來之後呢再來針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女說真的這樣是可以討論的但萬萬卻沒有想到呢最後明明在當時呢用主決議可以去決定的事情現在又一樣的硬是要用入法的方式來處理\n\n01:11.303 --> 01:29.589\n那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題就是立法院其實實質上不能夠直接去做增加預算今天行政體系他不管是要加薪或者要把那個紅線畫在哪裡其實都有行政的彈性那要不然為什麼4月1號就已經有先做加薪了那時候立法院沒有立法\n\n01:30.151 --> 01:57.773\n那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神\n\n01:58.473 --> 02:19.792\n所以在106年的時候呢那時候也是一樣喔是做決議喔也不是法案是做決議基於照顧弱勢跟肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情呢進行調整所以從106年開始呢除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力人於補助之外所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準本來是用25000畫這條線113年畫成28000\n\n02:23.835 --> 02:52.140\n然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早所以呢他退役早的時候呢他子女可能還在上學啊所以就改成用官階的身份啊那個時候就是用這個本來的金額以及試算過後就是把那條線劃在中校如果要調整其實也可以直接做調整他可以討論但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情結果現在卻用這樣的直接立法的方式又變成是一種不好好討論最終要通過立法\n\n02:52.620 --> 03:13.649\n那更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校這個三萬五啊學貸的減壓什麼等等之類的所以還是要再次建議我們這個在野黨就是說我們不要讓這個資源重合也不要讓這個討論失焦用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣的一個粗暴的立法上謝謝好謝謝沈博洋委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.193,"end":30.831,"text":"主席 各位委員 那這個呢我覺得啦 我們是有一說一 有二說二剛剛這個軍人待遇條例可以說是亂七八糟連這個最基本的法制的ABC都沒有遵守但現在我們要討論的這一條 相對來講第一個 它至少是有討論過的它在什麼時候討論呢 它其實在上一屆就討論過了在這一屆也討論過了"},{"start":33.553,"end":51.441,"text":"他一樣是增加預算不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張所以這個案子原本是可以討論的所以去年我們在討論這件事情的時候其實非常的簡單因為如果用主決議的方式先建議比如說行政院建議退府去擬出相關的方案"},{"start":51.921,"end":70.282,"text":"把這個提出來之後呢再來針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女說真的這樣是可以討論的但萬萬卻沒有想到呢最後明明在當時呢用主決議可以去決定的事情現在又一樣的硬是要用入法的方式來處理"},{"start":71.303,"end":89.589,"text":"那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題就是立法院其實實質上不能夠直接去做增加預算今天行政體系他不管是要加薪或者要把那個紅線畫在哪裡其實都有行政的彈性那要不然為什麼4月1號就已經有先做加薪了那時候立法院沒有立法"},{"start":90.151,"end":117.773,"text":"那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情它無需等到立法院來立法這樣才會有彈性嘛那更不要講說呢其實今天這個提案它還是有開一個歷史倒車的問題怎麼說呢因為呢在65年7月30號的時候呢那時候兼領月退休的人員就可以比照在職人員發這個子女教育的補助但那是舊時代的產物它已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神"},{"start":118.473,"end":139.792,"text":"所以在106年的時候呢 那時候也是一樣喔 是做決議喔 也不是法案 是做決議基於照顧弱勢跟肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情呢 進行調整所以從106年開始呢 除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力人於補助之外所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準本來是用25000畫這條線 113年畫成28000"},{"start":143.835,"end":172.14,"text":"然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早所以呢他退役早的時候呢他子女可能還在上學啊所以就改成用官階的身份啊那個時候就是用這個本來的金額以及試算過後就是把那條線劃在中校如果要調整其實也可以直接做調整他可以討論但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情結果現在卻用這樣的直接立法的方式又變成是一種不好好討論最終要通過立法"},{"start":172.62,"end":193.649,"text":"那更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校這個三萬五啊學貸的減壓什麼等等之類的所以還是要再次建議我們這個在野黨就是說我們不要讓這個資源重合也不要讓這個討論失焦用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣的一個粗暴的立法上謝謝好 謝謝沈博洋委員的發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":120,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（12時41分）主席、各位委員。我覺得我們是有一說一、有二說二，剛剛通過的軍人待遇條例可以說是亂七八糟，連最基本的法制ABC都沒有遵守，但現在我們要討論的這一條，相對來講，第一個，它至少是有討論過的，它在什麼時候討論呢？其實在上一屆就討論過了，在這一屆也討論過了，它一樣是增加預算，不過沒有像前面兩個案子那麼誇張，所以這個案子原本是可以討論的。去年我們在討論這件事情的時候，其實非常地簡單，因為如果用主決議的方式，比如先建議行政院、建議退撫去擬出相關的方案，把這個提出來之後再針對是不是要把這個線切在上校子女。","說真的，這樣是可以討論的，但萬萬卻沒有想到，最後明明在當時用主決議可以決定的事情，現在又一樣地，硬是要用入法的方式來處理，那又回到剛剛前面軍人待遇條例的問題，就是立法院實質上不能夠直接增加預算。今天行政體系不管是要加薪或者要把那條紅線畫在哪裡，其實都有行政的彈性，要不然為什麼4月1日就已經先加薪了，那時候立法院還沒有立法啊？那是因為這是行政院自己就可以做的事情，無須等到立法院來立法，這樣才會有彈性。","更不要講今天這個提案有開歷史倒車的問題，怎麼說呢？因為在65年7月30日，那時候兼領月退休俸的人員就可以比照在職人員發子女教育補助，但那是舊時代的產物，已經不符合現代這種公平財政的精神。所以在106年的時候，那時候也一樣不是透過法案，而是做決議，基於照顧弱勢及肯定對國家有貢獻這件事情來進行調整，所以從106年開始，除了因公失能或退休時無工作能力得予補助之外，所有的公教人員都採一個定額的標準，本來是用2萬5,000元畫這條線，113年畫成2萬8,000元，然而因為軍人退役年齡比較早，退役時其子女可能還在上學，所以就改成用官階的身分，那個時候就是用本來的金額試算過後，把那條線畫在中校，如果要調整，其實也可以直接做調整，它可以討論。但明明就是一個那麼簡單的事情，結果現在卻用這樣直接立法的方式，又變成是一種不好好討論、最終要通過立法，更不要講說其實就學這件事情已經有私校3萬5,000元、學貸減壓等等之類的。","所以我還是要再次建議在野黨，我們不要讓這個資源重合，也不要讓這個討論失焦，用原來這種決議的方式能夠處理，就沒有必要浪費時間在這樣粗暴的立法上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員的發言。","接下來請王鴻薇委員發言，林楚茵委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":250,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-15","speakers":["韓國瑜","王鴻薇","張啓楷","沈伯洋","林德福","王定宇","徐巧芯","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","王育敏","陳俊宇","丁學忠","王義川","謝龍介","李坤城","洪孟楷","張宏陸","廖偉翔","沈發惠","羅廷瑋","蔡易餘"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-06-10"],"gazette_id":"1145501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145501_00003","1145501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第15次會議紀錄","content":"軍人待遇條例修正第六條條文─完成三讀─","agenda_id":"1145501_00006"}}}