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{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 600.649, \"end\": 600.949, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 600.949, \"end\": 601.169, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 601.169, \"end\": 601.309, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 601.309, \"end\": 601.529, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 601.529, \"end\": 602.55, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 602.55, \"end\": 602.77, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 602.77, \"end\": 603.431, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 603.431, \"end\": 603.531, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 603.531, \"end\": 603.611, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 603.611, \"end\": 604.292, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 604.292, \"end\": 604.452, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 604.452, \"end\": 604.692, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 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608.215, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 609.721, \"end\": 626.603, \"text\": \"那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 609.721, \"end\": 609.861, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 609.861, \"end\": 610.382, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 610.382, \"end\": 610.642, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 610.642, \"end\": 610.903, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 610.903, \"end\": 611.443, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 611.443, \"end\": 611.603, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 611.603, \"end\": 611.664, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 611.664, \"end\": 611.804, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 611.804, \"end\": 612.304, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 612.304, \"end\": 612.665, \"score\": 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740.437, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 740.437, \"end\": 740.577, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 740.577, \"end\": 740.677, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 740.677, \"end\": 740.697, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 740.697, \"end\": 740.717, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 744.905, \"end\": 745.106, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 745.106, \"end\": 745.327, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 745.327, \"end\": 745.79, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 745.79, \"end\": 745.991, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 745.991, \"end\": 746.534, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 746.534, \"end\": 746.715, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 746.715, \"end\": 746.916, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 746.916, \"end\": 747.137, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 747.137, \"end\": 748.082, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 748.082, \"end\": 748.343, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 748.343, \"end\": 748.826, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"眼\", \"start\": 748.826, \"end\": 748.846, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,872 --> 00:00:02,756\n好主席謝謝麻煩請陳彥博次長陳次長\n\n2\n00:00:11,485 --> 00:00:34,790\n好市長市長過去本席一直強調交通是專業用人為材您也是老交通人所以只要是專業理性的討論我想我們大家都可以用專業來說服專業那請教現在大家國人關注的大眾運輸的部分台鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理\n\n3\n00:00:37,129 --> 00:00:59,270\n我跟委員做說明所有的交通事業的處理呢都一定是要有一定的這個因為他不管是董事長也好或是總經理都要專業吧都要有一定的能力這個問題沒有那麼難回答不是他都一定要有具有一定的能力來帶領的整個公司繼續向前我想這是一定的\n\n4\n00:00:59,750 --> 00:01:26,243\n所以台鐵之前我們講是說因為他現在是代理董事長那現在已經要補了鄭光源董事長來接任他是一月今年一月才去接任高鐵董事長嘛是的對不對那鄭董事長我想過去大家也都對於他在大眾運輸也好或說相關交通專業上來講的話認為是說他是可以為台鐵來做後續的安全維護管理他應該是一個合適的人選\n\n5\n00:01:27,871 --> 00:01:45,487\n我想鄭董事長在他的專業有沒有問題不管在以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域他都會表現有一定的一個非常亮眼嘛是不是那一樣那鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長使者哪一個比較專業\n\n6\n00:01:47,035 --> 00:02:07,114\n我想跟委員報告所有的一個用人每一個人都有他的一個能力來處理他所帶領的一個公司我想所以在這裡用這樣來比較恐怕不是如果說你這樣講的話就沒有相關領域的專業囉一定的一個到了一定程度的領導者我現在請教的是說就您因為\n\n7\n00:02:08,155 --> 00:02:30,871\n使者要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定這個我就可以跟委員做一個說明所有國營事業它都有一定的用人的制度跟一個程序就是有用人制度跟程序所以我們想了解說是誰拍板的委員剛剛特別提到的這個相關的一個程序正在進行中還沒有定案等這個程序完備了以後未來對外說明這兩天我想\n\n8\n00:02:33,613 --> 00:02:54,653\n名人不說暗話啦媒體大家都已經報導了就是史哲介董事長了嘛有可能改變嗎我想那個程序還在進行但是誰拍板定案政院人士那我想請教說今天是交通部您是次長我本來想要問部長部長沒來我只能問次長但我想請教一下交通管的是所有這些部門嗎\n\n9\n00:02:55,851 --> 00:03:12,421\n那總是不可能你們不知道高鐵那麼重要的位置董事長結果是一個空降的政委一個過去在文化部文化領域文化領域的部分他表現怎麼樣見仁見智但至少他有在文化領域耕耘\n\n10\n00:03:13,601 --> 00:03:28,914\n可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的部分要來接高鐵董事長您一個老交通人可以接受嗎交通的專業有那麼容易的被取代然後可以讓外界隨便一個空降的人就來空降嗎\n\n11\n00:03:30,084 --> 00:03:55,841\n我要跟委員做說明的就是所有交通業務的一個推動其實是靠所有這個交通人大家共同努力所以只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人那他都一定會發揮他的一個作用和他的一個能力把這每個人直施其職把這樣事情做好所以現在你是要用你過去幾十年的背景來認可一個\n\n12\n00:03:57,482 --> 00:04:19,312\n過去從來沒有在交通領域的人然後來到高鐵因為他關大學問大因為他黨政無敵所以來接了董事長之後他就變交通人了是這樣嗎我想再一次的跟委員說明就是有沒有看到我們媒體的報導這是今天媒體的報導不懂交通專業營運專業憑什麼當上高鐵董做\n\n13\n00:04:22,506 --> 00:04:49,121\n有前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講說說清楚用人的原因是現在搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長是不是是全台灣只要有搭過高鐵的人只要有做過服務的做過經濟艙做過自由坐的就可以來當高鐵董事長他憑什麼我想跟委員報告\n\n14\n00:04:52,649 --> 00:05:10,388\n交通的一個專業上或交通的一個治理上其實是要靠大家共同來努力的所以剛才委員特別提到說有搭過什麼就一定可以我想這個是跟用人是不可以劃分的所以今天大家只要努力我也不用學習什麼專業我只要努力\n\n15\n00:05:11,414 --> 00:05:31,096\n我不用有相關的背景我要跟委員報告一個交通團隊的一個代理我這樣其實是覺得蠻遺憾的我們今天是交通委員會我們討論的都是我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情為什麼就代表沒有出事\n\n16\n00:05:32,469 --> 00:06:00,367\n大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起的但今天那麼噁心把一個董事長專業外行領導內行政治效忠步步高升結果現在空降來了沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對欸還要幫他洗地我們今天問的問題我覺得我很公允的問今天他有什麼交通專業指出來\n\n17\n00:06:02,657 --> 00:06:21,013\n他今天他有什麼長才是我們兩千三百五十萬人有交通博士交通碩士每一個那麼優質的交通部的人才都沒有辦法接高鐵董事長只有一個外行過去沒有在交通領域服務的人他可以這樣空降來\n\n18\n00:06:22,214 --> 00:06:48,113\n我想跟委員報告額後的部長是高鐵或台鐵其實他是董事長他其實是在做公司治理所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好其實都是很棒的交通人市長是政委負責督導部會對不對政委依他的權責是的好現在督導交通部的是誰是哪一位政委\n\n19\n00:06:51,214 --> 00:07:03,307\n有各個不同的領域有不同就是不同的業務有不同的政委現在督導交通部是哪一個政委如果是工程的有曾經的政委如果是觀光的是史哲政委是\n\n20\n00:07:04,540 --> 00:07:29,574\n觀光是使者政委使者政委下面負責部會是包括文化部教育部課委會跟故宮啊它也包含觀光的業務在裡面所以今天現在高鐵你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了呃我再一次來非常好市長你這樣子真的是讓本席非常的遺憾啊國人都看在眼裡啦既然你要講專業你要講董事會現在講是說還沒有通過董事會確定對不對\n\n21\n00:07:33,736 --> 00:07:56,614\n相關的一個行政的程序還沒有走完那我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範高鐵的董事會它有相關的公司治理來來來高鐵的網站這是我今天在高鐵網站上面特別找到的董事會治理辦法其中建立本公司董事人才資料庫適時提送董事會審議\n\n22\n00:07:57,955 --> 00:08:03,470\n我想請教一下史喆什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫\n\n23\n00:08:06,408 --> 00:08:28,775\n我想我要進一步去了解因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理的部分在這裡我恐怕無法讓我們國人了解一下什麼時候史喆這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面並且適時提送董事會審議不要告訴我們是這兩天喔\n\n24\n00:08:29,980 --> 00:08:58,216\n我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法因為這個是董事要互相選出董事你看本公司董事長的選任大股東推薦前要有遴選管理考核要點來指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗並且符合公司營運所需能擔任重責遵守用人為財適才是所謂董事長接班規劃之最高原則\n\n25\n00:08:59,628 --> 00:09:10,067\n這是你高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的有零選管理考核要點指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗\n\n26\n00:09:14,344 --> 00:09:30,502\n剛剛討論了半天使者相關經驗是零啊你用一句說只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪那就代表說他過去沒有任何相關經驗負責公司營運並且擔任重責用人為財私財事所\n\n27\n00:09:32,076 --> 00:09:52,061\n有嗎首先我跟委員回憶兩個我剛才特別提到就是說所有每一個事任這個公司董事長的都有他其專業不是當然他也一定要努力那另外一個這裡有特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關的一個規定牽涉到高鐵公司治理\n\n28\n00:09:52,441 --> 00:10:08,215\n那我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循著這樣的一個他們的一個程序在遴選相關他們的董事而且也會經過高鐵公司的董事會來處理市長看一下本公司108年10月16號還訂立了永續發展跟提名委員會\n\n29\n00:10:09,721 --> 00:10:26,603\n那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字\n\n30\n00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:52,150\n好不好今天讓國人看到說他是一個其實之前就有被討論還是說真的是高層清點只要黨政無敵有黨政有關係就沒關係沒關係的話大家就慢慢等即便工作了幾十年的交通人今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了我也不知道說這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受會不會打擊\n\n31\n00:10:53,170 --> 00:11:19,603\n為了一個高官升官為了一個有黨證的人升官然後打擊了所有交通部所有交通人的一個信心我工作了10年20年30年念了交通博士交通順士運輸所沒有用你只要你今天加入就可以當作交通人了這個就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的一個狀況我今天對任何人都沒有喜好\n\n32\n00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:42,788\n我今天對任何人我對事不對人今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評因為這是很離譜的事情國家高鐵是那麼重要現在大家每天坐有多少人在運輸的高鐵結果治理的公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降這是國家是女人家欸國家是民進黨欸\n\n33\n00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:50,906\n非常離譜跟荒謬\n\n34\n00:11:55,223 --> 00:12:20,717\n我想最後還是要跟委員報告就是說所有相關這個高鐵董事的董事長的一個產生最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的一個決定還有相關的一個程序現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了沒有相關的一個程序還是要完成然後最後高鐵董事會九名董事有七名是官派的還是要經過公司治理的方式來產生然後現在行政院傳出政院人士講說清點就是使者來當高鐵董事長\n\n35\n00:12:24,905 --> 00:12:28,846\n這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通轉眼謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1872\t2756\t好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳彥博次長陳次長\n11485\t34790\t好 市長市長過去本席一直強調交通是專業用人為材您也是老交通人所以只要是專業理性的討論我想我們大家都可以用專業來說服專業那請教現在大家國人關注的大眾運輸的部分台鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理\n37129\t59270\t我跟委員做說明所有的交通事業的處理呢都一定是要有一定的這個因為他不管是董事長也好或是總經理都要專業吧都要有一定的能力這個問題沒有那麼難回答不是他都一定要有具有一定的能力來帶領的整個公司繼續向前我想這是一定的\n59750\t86243\t所以台鐵之前我們講是說因為他現在是代理董事長那現在已經要補了鄭光源董事長來接任他是一月 今年一月才去接任高鐵董事長嘛是的 對不對那鄭董事長我想過去大家也都對於他在大眾運輸也好或說相關交通專業上來講的話認為是說他是可以為台鐵來做後續的安全維護管理他應該是一個合適的人選\n87871\t105487\t我想鄭董事長在他的專業有沒有問題不管在以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域他都會表現有一定的一個非常亮眼嘛 是不是那一樣那鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長使者哪一個比較專業\n107035\t127114\t我想跟委員報告所有的一個用人每一個人都有他的一個能力來處理他所帶領的一個公司我想所以在這裡用這樣來比較恐怕不是如果說你這樣講的話就沒有相關領域的專業囉一定的一個到了一定程度的領導者我現在請教的是說就您因為\n128155\t150871\t使者要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定這個我就可以跟委員做一個說明所有國營事業它都有一定的用人的制度跟一個程序就是有用人制度跟程序所以我們想了解說是誰拍板的委員剛剛特別提到的這個相關的一個程序正在進行中還沒有定案等這個程序完備了以後未來對外說明這兩天我想\n153613\t174653\t名人不說暗話啦媒體大家都已經報導了就是史哲介董事長了嘛有可能改變嗎我想那個程序還在進行但是誰拍板定案政院人士那我想請教說今天是交通部您是次長我本來想要問部長部長沒來我只能問次長但我想請教一下交通管的是所有這些部門嗎\n175851\t192421\t那總是不可能你們不知道高鐵那麼重要的位置董事長結果是一個空降的政委一個過去在文化部文化領域文化領域的部分他表現怎麼樣見仁見智但至少他有在文化領域耕耘\n193601\t208914\t可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的部分要來接高鐵董事長您一個老交通人可以接受嗎交通的專業有那麼容易的被取代然後可以讓外界隨便一個空降的人就來空降嗎\n210084\t235841\t我要跟委員做說明的就是所有交通業務的一個推動其實是靠所有這個交通人大家共同努力所以只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人那他都一定會發揮他的一個作用和他的一個能力把這每個人直施其職把這樣事情做好所以現在你是要用你過去幾十年的背景來認可一個\n237482\t259312\t過去從來沒有在交通領域的人 然後來到高鐵因為他關大學問大 因為他黨政無敵所以來接了董事長之後 他就變交通人了是這樣嗎我想再一次的跟委員說明就是有沒有看到我們媒體的報導這是今天媒體的報導不懂交通專業 營運專業 憑什麼當上高鐵董做\n262506\t289121\t有前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講說說清楚用人的原因是現在搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長是不是是全台灣只要有搭過高鐵的人只要有做過服務的做過經濟艙做過自由坐的就可以來當高鐵董事長他憑什麼我想跟委員報告\n292649\t310388\t交通的一個專業上或交通的一個治理上其實是要靠大家共同來努力的所以剛才委員特別提到說有搭過什麼就一定可以我想這個是跟用人是不可以劃分的所以今天大家只要努力我也不用學習什麼專業我只要努力\n311414\t331096\t我不用有相關的背景我要跟委員報告一個交通團隊的一個代理我這樣其實是覺得蠻遺憾的我們今天是交通委員會我們討論的都是我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情為什麼就代表沒有出事\n332469\t360367\t大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起的但今天那麼噁心把一個董事長專業外行領導內行政治效忠步步高升結果現在空降來了沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對欸還要幫他洗地我們今天問的問題我覺得我很公允的問今天他有什麼交通專業指出來\n362657\t381013\t他今天他有什麼長才是我們兩千三百五十萬人有交通博士 交通碩士每一個那麼優質的交通部的人才都沒有辦法接高鐵董事長只有一個外行過去沒有在交通領域服務的人他可以這樣空降來\n382214\t408113\t我想跟委員報告 額後的部長是高鐵或台鐵其實他是董事長 他其實是在做公司治理所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好其實都是很棒的交通人市長是 政委負責督導部會對不對政委依他的權責是的好 現在督導交通部的是誰 是哪一位政委\n411214\t423307\t有各個不同的領域有不同就是不同的業務有不同的政委現在督導交通部是哪一個政委如果是工程的有曾經的政委如果是觀光的是史哲政委是\n424540\t449574\t觀光是使者政委 使者政委下面負責部會是包括文化部 教育部 課委會跟故宮啊它也包含觀光的業務在裡面所以今天現在高鐵你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了呃 我再一次來 非常好市長你這樣子真的是讓本席非常的遺憾啊國人都看在眼裡啦既然你要講專業 你要講董事會現在講是說還沒有通過董事會確定對不對\n453736\t476614\t相關的一個行政的程序還沒有走完那我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範高鐵的董事會它有相關的公司治理來來來高鐵的網站這是我今天在高鐵網站上面特別找到的董事會治理辦法其中建立本公司董事人才資料庫適時提送董事會審議\n477955\t483470\t我想請教一下史喆什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫\n486408\t508775\t我想我要進一步去了解因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理的部分在這裡我恐怕無法讓我們國人了解一下什麼時候史喆這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面並且適時提送董事會審議不要告訴我們是這兩天喔\n509980\t538216\t我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法因為這個是董事要互相選出董事你看本公司董事長的選任大股東推薦前要有遴選管理考核要點來指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗並且符合公司營運所需能擔任重責遵守用人為財適才是所謂董事長接班規劃之最高原則\n539628\t550067\t這是你高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的有零選管理考核要點指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗\n554344\t570502\t剛剛討論了半天 使者相關經驗是零啊你用一句說只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪那就代表說他過去沒有任何相關經驗負責公司營運並且擔任重責 用人為財 私財事所\n572076\t592061\t有嗎首先我跟委員回憶兩個我剛才特別提到就是說所有每一個事任這個公司董事長的都有他其專業不是當然他也一定要努力那另外一個這裡有特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關的一個規定牽涉到高鐵公司治理\n592441\t608215\t那我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循著這樣的一個他們的一個程序在遴選相關他們的董事而且也會經過高鐵公司的董事會來處理市長看一下本公司108年10月16號還訂立了永續發展跟提名委員會\n609721\t626603\t那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字\n627759\t652150\t好不好今天讓國人看到說他是一個其實之前就有被討論還是說真的是高層清點只要黨政無敵有黨政有關係就沒關係沒關係的話大家就慢慢等即便工作了幾十年的交通人今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了我也不知道說這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受會不會打擊\n653170\t679603\t為了一個高官升官為了一個有黨證的人升官然後打擊了所有交通部所有交通人的一個信心我工作了10年20年30年念了交通博士交通順士運輸所沒有用你只要你今天加入就可以當作交通人了這個就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的一個狀況我今天對任何人都沒有喜好\n680919\t702788\t我今天對任何人 我對事不對人今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評因為這是很離譜的事情國家高鐵是那麼重要現在大家每天坐有多少人在運輸的高鐵結果治理的公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降這是國家是女人家欸國家是民進黨欸\n709960\t710906\t非常離譜跟荒謬\n715223\t740717\t我想最後還是要跟委員報告就是說所有相關這個高鐵董事的董事長的一個產生最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的一個決定還有相關的一個程序現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了沒有 相關的一個程序還是要完成然後最後高鐵董事會 九名董事有七名是官派的還是要經過公司治理的方式來產生然後現在行政院傳出 政院人士講說清點就是使者來當高鐵董事長\n744905\t748846\t這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通轉眼謝謝\n","txt":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳彥博次長陳次長\n好 市長市長過去本席一直強調交通是專業用人為材您也是老交通人所以只要是專業理性的討論我想我們大家都可以用專業來說服專業那請教現在大家國人關注的大眾運輸的部分台鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理\n我跟委員做說明所有的交通事業的處理呢都一定是要有一定的這個因為他不管是董事長也好或是總經理都要專業吧都要有一定的能力這個問題沒有那麼難回答不是他都一定要有具有一定的能力來帶領的整個公司繼續向前我想這是一定的\n所以台鐵之前我們講是說因為他現在是代理董事長那現在已經要補了鄭光源董事長來接任他是一月 今年一月才去接任高鐵董事長嘛是的 對不對那鄭董事長我想過去大家也都對於他在大眾運輸也好或說相關交通專業上來講的話認為是說他是可以為台鐵來做後續的安全維護管理他應該是一個合適的人選\n我想鄭董事長在他的專業有沒有問題不管在以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域他都會表現有一定的一個非常亮眼嘛 是不是那一樣那鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長使者哪一個比較專業\n我想跟委員報告所有的一個用人每一個人都有他的一個能力來處理他所帶領的一個公司我想所以在這裡用這樣來比較恐怕不是如果說你這樣講的話就沒有相關領域的專業囉一定的一個到了一定程度的領導者我現在請教的是說就您因為\n使者要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定這個我就可以跟委員做一個說明所有國營事業它都有一定的用人的制度跟一個程序就是有用人制度跟程序所以我們想了解說是誰拍板的委員剛剛特別提到的這個相關的一個程序正在進行中還沒有定案等這個程序完備了以後未來對外說明這兩天我想\n名人不說暗話啦媒體大家都已經報導了就是史哲介董事長了嘛有可能改變嗎我想那個程序還在進行但是誰拍板定案政院人士那我想請教說今天是交通部您是次長我本來想要問部長部長沒來我只能問次長但我想請教一下交通管的是所有這些部門嗎\n那總是不可能你們不知道高鐵那麼重要的位置董事長結果是一個空降的政委一個過去在文化部文化領域文化領域的部分他表現怎麼樣見仁見智但至少他有在文化領域耕耘\n可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的部分要來接高鐵董事長您一個老交通人可以接受嗎交通的專業有那麼容易的被取代然後可以讓外界隨便一個空降的人就來空降嗎\n我要跟委員做說明的就是所有交通業務的一個推動其實是靠所有這個交通人大家共同努力所以只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人那他都一定會發揮他的一個作用和他的一個能力把這每個人直施其職把這樣事情做好所以現在你是要用你過去幾十年的背景來認可一個\n過去從來沒有在交通領域的人 然後來到高鐵因為他關大學問大 因為他黨政無敵所以來接了董事長之後 他就變交通人了是這樣嗎我想再一次的跟委員說明就是有沒有看到我們媒體的報導這是今天媒體的報導不懂交通專業 營運專業 憑什麼當上高鐵董做\n有前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講說說清楚用人的原因是現在搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長是不是是全台灣只要有搭過高鐵的人只要有做過服務的做過經濟艙做過自由坐的就可以來當高鐵董事長他憑什麼我想跟委員報告\n交通的一個專業上或交通的一個治理上其實是要靠大家共同來努力的所以剛才委員特別提到說有搭過什麼就一定可以我想這個是跟用人是不可以劃分的所以今天大家只要努力我也不用學習什麼專業我只要努力\n我不用有相關的背景我要跟委員報告一個交通團隊的一個代理我這樣其實是覺得蠻遺憾的我們今天是交通委員會我們討論的都是我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情為什麼就代表沒有出事\n大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起的但今天那麼噁心把一個董事長專業外行領導內行政治效忠步步高升結果現在空降來了沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對欸還要幫他洗地我們今天問的問題我覺得我很公允的問今天他有什麼交通專業指出來\n他今天他有什麼長才是我們兩千三百五十萬人有交通博士 交通碩士每一個那麼優質的交通部的人才都沒有辦法接高鐵董事長只有一個外行過去沒有在交通領域服務的人他可以這樣空降來\n我想跟委員報告 額後的部長是高鐵或台鐵其實他是董事長 他其實是在做公司治理所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好其實都是很棒的交通人市長是 政委負責督導部會對不對政委依他的權責是的好 現在督導交通部的是誰 是哪一位政委\n有各個不同的領域有不同就是不同的業務有不同的政委現在督導交通部是哪一個政委如果是工程的有曾經的政委如果是觀光的是史哲政委是\n觀光是使者政委 使者政委下面負責部會是包括文化部 教育部 課委會跟故宮啊它也包含觀光的業務在裡面所以今天現在高鐵你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了呃 我再一次來 非常好市長你這樣子真的是讓本席非常的遺憾啊國人都看在眼裡啦既然你要講專業 你要講董事會現在講是說還沒有通過董事會確定對不對\n相關的一個行政的程序還沒有走完那我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範高鐵的董事會它有相關的公司治理來來來高鐵的網站這是我今天在高鐵網站上面特別找到的董事會治理辦法其中建立本公司董事人才資料庫適時提送董事會審議\n我想請教一下史喆什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫\n我想我要進一步去了解因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理的部分在這裡我恐怕無法讓我們國人了解一下什麼時候史喆這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面並且適時提送董事會審議不要告訴我們是這兩天喔\n我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法因為這個是董事要互相選出董事你看本公司董事長的選任大股東推薦前要有遴選管理考核要點來指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗並且符合公司營運所需能擔任重責遵守用人為財適才是所謂董事長接班規劃之最高原則\n這是你高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的有零選管理考核要點指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗\n剛剛討論了半天 使者相關經驗是零啊你用一句說只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪那就代表說他過去沒有任何相關經驗負責公司營運並且擔任重責 用人為財 私財事所\n有嗎首先我跟委員回憶兩個我剛才特別提到就是說所有每一個事任這個公司董事長的都有他其專業不是當然他也一定要努力那另外一個這裡有特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關的一個規定牽涉到高鐵公司治理\n那我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循著這樣的一個他們的一個程序在遴選相關他們的董事而且也會經過高鐵公司的董事會來處理市長看一下本公司108年10月16號還訂立了永續發展跟提名委員會\n那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字\n好不好今天讓國人看到說他是一個其實之前就有被討論還是說真的是高層清點只要黨政無敵有黨政有關係就沒關係沒關係的話大家就慢慢等即便工作了幾十年的交通人今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了我也不知道說這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受會不會打擊\n為了一個高官升官為了一個有黨證的人升官然後打擊了所有交通部所有交通人的一個信心我工作了10年20年30年念了交通博士交通順士運輸所沒有用你只要你今天加入就可以當作交通人了這個就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的一個狀況我今天對任何人都沒有喜好\n我今天對任何人 我對事不對人今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評因為這是很離譜的事情國家高鐵是那麼重要現在大家每天坐有多少人在運輸的高鐵結果治理的公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降這是國家是女人家欸國家是民進黨欸\n非常離譜跟荒謬\n我想最後還是要跟委員報告就是說所有相關這個高鐵董事的董事長的一個產生最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的一個決定還有相關的一個程序現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了沒有 相關的一個程序還是要完成然後最後高鐵董事會 九名董事有七名是官派的還是要經過公司治理的方式來產生然後現在行政院傳出 政院人士講說清點就是使者來當高鐵董事長\n這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通轉眼謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.872 --> 00:02.756\n好主席謝謝麻煩請陳彥博次長陳次長\n\n00:11.485 --> 00:34.790\n好市長市長過去本席一直強調交通是專業用人為材您也是老交通人所以只要是專業理性的討論我想我們大家都可以用專業來說服專業那請教現在大家國人關注的大眾運輸的部分台鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理\n\n00:37.129 --> 00:59.270\n我跟委員做說明所有的交通事業的處理呢都一定是要有一定的這個因為他不管是董事長也好或是總經理都要專業吧都要有一定的能力這個問題沒有那麼難回答不是他都一定要有具有一定的能力來帶領的整個公司繼續向前我想這是一定的\n\n00:59.750 --> 01:26.243\n所以台鐵之前我們講是說因為他現在是代理董事長那現在已經要補了鄭光源董事長來接任他是一月今年一月才去接任高鐵董事長嘛是的對不對那鄭董事長我想過去大家也都對於他在大眾運輸也好或說相關交通專業上來講的話認為是說他是可以為台鐵來做後續的安全維護管理他應該是一個合適的人選\n\n01:27.871 --> 01:45.487\n我想鄭董事長在他的專業有沒有問題不管在以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域他都會表現有一定的一個非常亮眼嘛是不是那一樣那鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長使者哪一個比較專業\n\n01:47.035 --> 02:07.114\n我想跟委員報告所有的一個用人每一個人都有他的一個能力來處理他所帶領的一個公司我想所以在這裡用這樣來比較恐怕不是如果說你這樣講的話就沒有相關領域的專業囉一定的一個到了一定程度的領導者我現在請教的是說就您因為\n\n02:08.155 --> 02:30.871\n使者要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定這個我就可以跟委員做一個說明所有國營事業它都有一定的用人的制度跟一個程序就是有用人制度跟程序所以我們想了解說是誰拍板的委員剛剛特別提到的這個相關的一個程序正在進行中還沒有定案等這個程序完備了以後未來對外說明這兩天我想\n\n02:33.613 --> 02:54.653\n名人不說暗話啦媒體大家都已經報導了就是史哲介董事長了嘛有可能改變嗎我想那個程序還在進行但是誰拍板定案政院人士那我想請教說今天是交通部您是次長我本來想要問部長部長沒來我只能問次長但我想請教一下交通管的是所有這些部門嗎\n\n02:55.851 --> 03:12.421\n那總是不可能你們不知道高鐵那麼重要的位置董事長結果是一個空降的政委一個過去在文化部文化領域文化領域的部分他表現怎麼樣見仁見智但至少他有在文化領域耕耘\n\n03:13.601 --> 03:28.914\n可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的部分要來接高鐵董事長您一個老交通人可以接受嗎交通的專業有那麼容易的被取代然後可以讓外界隨便一個空降的人就來空降嗎\n\n03:30.084 --> 03:55.841\n我要跟委員做說明的就是所有交通業務的一個推動其實是靠所有這個交通人大家共同努力所以只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人那他都一定會發揮他的一個作用和他的一個能力把這每個人直施其職把這樣事情做好所以現在你是要用你過去幾十年的背景來認可一個\n\n03:57.482 --> 04:19.312\n過去從來沒有在交通領域的人然後來到高鐵因為他關大學問大因為他黨政無敵所以來接了董事長之後他就變交通人了是這樣嗎我想再一次的跟委員說明就是有沒有看到我們媒體的報導這是今天媒體的報導不懂交通專業營運專業憑什麼當上高鐵董做\n\n04:22.506 --> 04:49.121\n有前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講說說清楚用人的原因是現在搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長是不是是全台灣只要有搭過高鐵的人只要有做過服務的做過經濟艙做過自由坐的就可以來當高鐵董事長他憑什麼我想跟委員報告\n\n04:52.649 --> 05:10.388\n交通的一個專業上或交通的一個治理上其實是要靠大家共同來努力的所以剛才委員特別提到說有搭過什麼就一定可以我想這個是跟用人是不可以劃分的所以今天大家只要努力我也不用學習什麼專業我只要努力\n\n05:11.414 --> 05:31.096\n我不用有相關的背景我要跟委員報告一個交通團隊的一個代理我這樣其實是覺得蠻遺憾的我們今天是交通委員會我們討論的都是我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情為什麼就代表沒有出事\n\n05:32.469 --> 06:00.367\n大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起的但今天那麼噁心把一個董事長專業外行領導內行政治效忠步步高升結果現在空降來了沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對欸還要幫他洗地我們今天問的問題我覺得我很公允的問今天他有什麼交通專業指出來\n\n06:02.657 --> 06:21.013\n他今天他有什麼長才是我們兩千三百五十萬人有交通博士交通碩士每一個那麼優質的交通部的人才都沒有辦法接高鐵董事長只有一個外行過去沒有在交通領域服務的人他可以這樣空降來\n\n06:22.214 --> 06:48.113\n我想跟委員報告額後的部長是高鐵或台鐵其實他是董事長他其實是在做公司治理所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好其實都是很棒的交通人市長是政委負責督導部會對不對政委依他的權責是的好現在督導交通部的是誰是哪一位政委\n\n06:51.214 --> 07:03.307\n有各個不同的領域有不同就是不同的業務有不同的政委現在督導交通部是哪一個政委如果是工程的有曾經的政委如果是觀光的是史哲政委是\n\n07:04.540 --> 07:29.574\n觀光是使者政委使者政委下面負責部會是包括文化部教育部課委會跟故宮啊它也包含觀光的業務在裡面所以今天現在高鐵你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了呃我再一次來非常好市長你這樣子真的是讓本席非常的遺憾啊國人都看在眼裡啦既然你要講專業你要講董事會現在講是說還沒有通過董事會確定對不對\n\n07:33.736 --> 07:56.614\n相關的一個行政的程序還沒有走完那我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範高鐵的董事會它有相關的公司治理來來來高鐵的網站這是我今天在高鐵網站上面特別找到的董事會治理辦法其中建立本公司董事人才資料庫適時提送董事會審議\n\n07:57.955 --> 08:03.470\n我想請教一下史喆什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫\n\n08:06.408 --> 08:28.775\n我想我要進一步去了解因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理的部分在這裡我恐怕無法讓我們國人了解一下什麼時候史喆這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面並且適時提送董事會審議不要告訴我們是這兩天喔\n\n08:29.980 --> 08:58.216\n我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法因為這個是董事要互相選出董事你看本公司董事長的選任大股東推薦前要有遴選管理考核要點來指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗並且符合公司營運所需能擔任重責遵守用人為財適才是所謂董事長接班規劃之最高原則\n\n08:59.628 --> 09:10.067\n這是你高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的有零選管理考核要點指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗\n\n09:14.344 --> 09:30.502\n剛剛討論了半天使者相關經驗是零啊你用一句說只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪那就代表說他過去沒有任何相關經驗負責公司營運並且擔任重責用人為財私財事所\n\n09:32.076 --> 09:52.061\n有嗎首先我跟委員回憶兩個我剛才特別提到就是說所有每一個事任這個公司董事長的都有他其專業不是當然他也一定要努力那另外一個這裡有特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關的一個規定牽涉到高鐵公司治理\n\n09:52.441 --> 10:08.215\n那我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循著這樣的一個他們的一個程序在遴選相關他們的董事而且也會經過高鐵公司的董事會來處理市長看一下本公司108年10月16號還訂立了永續發展跟提名委員會\n\n10:09.721 --> 10:26.603\n那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字\n\n10:27.759 --> 10:52.150\n好不好今天讓國人看到說他是一個其實之前就有被討論還是說真的是高層清點只要黨政無敵有黨政有關係就沒關係沒關係的話大家就慢慢等即便工作了幾十年的交通人今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了我也不知道說這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受會不會打擊\n\n10:53.170 --> 11:19.603\n為了一個高官升官為了一個有黨證的人升官然後打擊了所有交通部所有交通人的一個信心我工作了10年20年30年念了交通博士交通順士運輸所沒有用你只要你今天加入就可以當作交通人了這個就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的一個狀況我今天對任何人都沒有喜好\n\n11:20.919 --> 11:42.788\n我今天對任何人我對事不對人今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評因為這是很離譜的事情國家高鐵是那麼重要現在大家每天坐有多少人在運輸的高鐵結果治理的公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降這是國家是女人家欸國家是民進黨欸\n\n11:49.960 --> 11:50.906\n非常離譜跟荒謬\n\n11:55.223 --> 12:20.717\n我想最後還是要跟委員報告就是說所有相關這個高鐵董事的董事長的一個產生最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的一個決定還有相關的一個程序現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了沒有相關的一個程序還是要完成然後最後高鐵董事會九名董事有七名是官派的還是要經過公司治理的方式來產生然後現在行政院傳出政院人士講說清點就是使者來當高鐵董事長\n\n12:24.905 --> 12:28.846\n這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通轉眼謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.872,"end":2.756,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳彥博次長陳次長"},{"start":11.485,"end":34.79,"text":"好 市長市長過去本席一直強調交通是專業用人為材您也是老交通人所以只要是專業理性的討論我想我們大家都可以用專業來說服專業那請教現在大家國人關注的大眾運輸的部分台鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理"},{"start":37.129,"end":59.27,"text":"我跟委員做說明所有的交通事業的處理呢都一定是要有一定的這個因為他不管是董事長也好或是總經理都要專業吧都要有一定的能力這個問題沒有那麼難回答不是他都一定要有具有一定的能力來帶領的整個公司繼續向前我想這是一定的"},{"start":59.75,"end":86.243,"text":"所以台鐵之前我們講是說因為他現在是代理董事長那現在已經要補了鄭光源董事長來接任他是一月 今年一月才去接任高鐵董事長嘛是的 對不對那鄭董事長我想過去大家也都對於他在大眾運輸也好或說相關交通專業上來講的話認為是說他是可以為台鐵來做後續的安全維護管理他應該是一個合適的人選"},{"start":87.871,"end":105.487,"text":"我想鄭董事長在他的專業有沒有問題不管在以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域他都會表現有一定的一個非常亮眼嘛 是不是那一樣那鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長使者哪一個比較專業"},{"start":107.035,"end":127.114,"text":"我想跟委員報告所有的一個用人每一個人都有他的一個能力來處理他所帶領的一個公司我想所以在這裡用這樣來比較恐怕不是如果說你這樣講的話就沒有相關領域的專業囉一定的一個到了一定程度的領導者我現在請教的是說就您因為"},{"start":128.155,"end":150.871,"text":"使者要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定這個我就可以跟委員做一個說明所有國營事業它都有一定的用人的制度跟一個程序就是有用人制度跟程序所以我們想了解說是誰拍板的委員剛剛特別提到的這個相關的一個程序正在進行中還沒有定案等這個程序完備了以後未來對外說明這兩天我想"},{"start":153.613,"end":174.653,"text":"名人不說暗話啦媒體大家都已經報導了就是史哲介董事長了嘛有可能改變嗎我想那個程序還在進行但是誰拍板定案政院人士那我想請教說今天是交通部您是次長我本來想要問部長部長沒來我只能問次長但我想請教一下交通管的是所有這些部門嗎"},{"start":175.851,"end":192.421,"text":"那總是不可能你們不知道高鐵那麼重要的位置董事長結果是一個空降的政委一個過去在文化部文化領域文化領域的部分他表現怎麼樣見仁見智但至少他有在文化領域耕耘"},{"start":193.601,"end":208.914,"text":"可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的部分要來接高鐵董事長您一個老交通人可以接受嗎交通的專業有那麼容易的被取代然後可以讓外界隨便一個空降的人就來空降嗎"},{"start":210.084,"end":235.841,"text":"我要跟委員做說明的就是所有交通業務的一個推動其實是靠所有這個交通人大家共同努力所以只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人那他都一定會發揮他的一個作用和他的一個能力把這每個人直施其職把這樣事情做好所以現在你是要用你過去幾十年的背景來認可一個"},{"start":237.482,"end":259.312,"text":"過去從來沒有在交通領域的人 然後來到高鐵因為他關大學問大 因為他黨政無敵所以來接了董事長之後 他就變交通人了是這樣嗎我想再一次的跟委員說明就是有沒有看到我們媒體的報導這是今天媒體的報導不懂交通專業 營運專業 憑什麼當上高鐵董做"},{"start":262.506,"end":289.121,"text":"有前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講說說清楚用人的原因是現在搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長是不是是全台灣只要有搭過高鐵的人只要有做過服務的做過經濟艙做過自由坐的就可以來當高鐵董事長他憑什麼我想跟委員報告"},{"start":292.649,"end":310.388,"text":"交通的一個專業上或交通的一個治理上其實是要靠大家共同來努力的所以剛才委員特別提到說有搭過什麼就一定可以我想這個是跟用人是不可以劃分的所以今天大家只要努力我也不用學習什麼專業我只要努力"},{"start":311.414,"end":331.096,"text":"我不用有相關的背景我要跟委員報告一個交通團隊的一個代理我這樣其實是覺得蠻遺憾的我們今天是交通委員會我們討論的都是我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情為什麼就代表沒有出事"},{"start":332.469,"end":360.367,"text":"大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起的但今天那麼噁心把一個董事長專業外行領導內行政治效忠步步高升結果現在空降來了沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對欸還要幫他洗地我們今天問的問題我覺得我很公允的問今天他有什麼交通專業指出來"},{"start":362.657,"end":381.013,"text":"他今天他有什麼長才是我們兩千三百五十萬人有交通博士 交通碩士每一個那麼優質的交通部的人才都沒有辦法接高鐵董事長只有一個外行過去沒有在交通領域服務的人他可以這樣空降來"},{"start":382.214,"end":408.113,"text":"我想跟委員報告 額後的部長是高鐵或台鐵其實他是董事長 他其實是在做公司治理所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好其實都是很棒的交通人市長是 政委負責督導部會對不對政委依他的權責是的好 現在督導交通部的是誰 是哪一位政委"},{"start":411.214,"end":423.307,"text":"有各個不同的領域有不同就是不同的業務有不同的政委現在督導交通部是哪一個政委如果是工程的有曾經的政委如果是觀光的是史哲政委是"},{"start":424.54,"end":449.574,"text":"觀光是使者政委 使者政委下面負責部會是包括文化部 教育部 課委會跟故宮啊它也包含觀光的業務在裡面所以今天現在高鐵你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了呃 我再一次來 非常好市長你這樣子真的是讓本席非常的遺憾啊國人都看在眼裡啦既然你要講專業 你要講董事會現在講是說還沒有通過董事會確定對不對"},{"start":453.736,"end":476.614,"text":"相關的一個行政的程序還沒有走完那我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範高鐵的董事會它有相關的公司治理來來來高鐵的網站這是我今天在高鐵網站上面特別找到的董事會治理辦法其中建立本公司董事人才資料庫適時提送董事會審議"},{"start":477.955,"end":483.47,"text":"我想請教一下史喆什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫"},{"start":486.408,"end":508.775,"text":"我想我要進一步去了解因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理的部分在這裡我恐怕無法讓我們國人了解一下什麼時候史喆這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面並且適時提送董事會審議不要告訴我們是這兩天喔"},{"start":509.98,"end":538.216,"text":"我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法因為這個是董事要互相選出董事你看本公司董事長的選任大股東推薦前要有遴選管理考核要點來指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗並且符合公司營運所需能擔任重責遵守用人為財適才是所謂董事長接班規劃之最高原則"},{"start":539.628,"end":550.067,"text":"這是你高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的有零選管理考核要點指引全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗"},{"start":554.344,"end":570.502,"text":"剛剛討論了半天 使者相關經驗是零啊你用一句說只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪那就代表說他過去沒有任何相關經驗負責公司營運並且擔任重責 用人為財 私財事所"},{"start":572.076,"end":592.061,"text":"有嗎首先我跟委員回憶兩個我剛才特別提到就是說所有每一個事任這個公司董事長的都有他其專業不是當然他也一定要努力那另外一個這裡有特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關的一個規定牽涉到高鐵公司治理"},{"start":592.441,"end":608.215,"text":"那我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循著這樣的一個他們的一個程序在遴選相關他們的董事而且也會經過高鐵公司的董事會來處理市長看一下本公司108年10月16號還訂立了永續發展跟提名委員會"},{"start":609.721,"end":626.603,"text":"那也請您回去找一下相關資料告訴國人啊所謂高鐵公司的永續發展接提名委員會啊過去歷屆開會以來有沒有曾經出現過史澤的名字啊有沒有出現過史澤的名字"},{"start":627.759,"end":652.15,"text":"好不好今天讓國人看到說他是一個其實之前就有被討論還是說真的是高層清點只要黨政無敵有黨政有關係就沒關係沒關係的話大家就慢慢等即便工作了幾十年的交通人今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了我也不知道說這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受會不會打擊"},{"start":653.17,"end":679.603,"text":"為了一個高官升官為了一個有黨證的人升官然後打擊了所有交通部所有交通人的一個信心我工作了10年20年30年念了交通博士交通順士運輸所沒有用你只要你今天加入就可以當作交通人了這個就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的一個狀況我今天對任何人都沒有喜好"},{"start":680.919,"end":702.788,"text":"我今天對任何人 我對事不對人今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評因為這是很離譜的事情國家高鐵是那麼重要現在大家每天坐有多少人在運輸的高鐵結果治理的公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降這是國家是女人家欸國家是民進黨欸"},{"start":709.96,"end":710.906,"text":"非常離譜跟荒謬"},{"start":715.223,"end":740.717,"text":"我想最後還是要跟委員報告就是說所有相關這個高鐵董事的董事長的一個產生最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的一個決定還有相關的一個程序現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了沒有 相關的一個程序還是要完成然後最後高鐵董事會 九名董事有七名是官派的還是要經過公司治理的方式來產生然後現在行政院傳出 政院人士講說清點就是使者來當高鐵董事長"},{"start":744.905,"end":748.846,"text":"這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通轉眼謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":187,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時44分）謝謝主席。麻煩請陳彥伯次長。"],["主席：請陳次長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，過去本席一直強調交通是專業、用人唯才，您也是老交通人，所以只要是專業理性的討論，大家都可以用專業來說服專業。請教現在國人關注的大眾運輸部分，臺鐵跟高鐵哪一個需要專業的人才來做經營管理？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員說明，所有交通事業的處理，不管是董事長或者總經理都要有一定的能力來帶領……"],["洪委員孟楷：都要專業吧！這個問題沒有那麼難回答吧。"],["陳次長彥伯：不是，他都要具有一定的能力來帶領整個公司繼續向前，我想這是一定的。"],["洪委員孟楷：臺鐵目前是代理董事長，現在要補鄭光遠董事長來接任，他是今年1月才接任高鐵董事長，對不對？"],["陳次長彥伯：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：過去大家對於鄭董事長在大眾運輸或相關交通專業上來講，認為是可以為臺鐵來做後續的安全維護管理，他應該是一個合適的人選，他的專業有沒有問題？"],["陳次長彥伯：鄭董事長不管以往在航空領域或者是在高鐵領域，他的表現都有一定的專業性。"],["洪委員孟楷：非常亮眼，是不是？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：鄭董事長跟現在傳出即將接任高鐵的董事長史哲，哪一個比較專業？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，關於用人方面，每一個人都有他的能力來處理所帶領的公司，所以用這樣來比較恐怕不是很恰當。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果你這樣講的話，就沒有相關領域的專業了。"],["陳次長彥伯：到了一定程度的領導者……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在請教的是史哲要去接任高鐵董事長是誰的決定？"],["陳次長彥伯：這個我可以跟委員說明，所有國營事業都有一定的用人制度和程序，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，就是有用人制度跟程序，所以我們想瞭解是誰拍板的？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員剛剛特別提到的相關程序正在進行中，還沒有定案。"],["洪委員孟楷：還沒定案？"],["陳次長彥伯：等程序完備之後會對外說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是這兩天已經傳出來，我想明人不說暗話，媒體都已經報導就是史哲接董事長，有可能改變嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：程序還在進行中……"],["洪委員孟楷：是誰拍板定案？政院人士？今天您是交通部次長，我本來想要問部長，但部長沒來只能問次長。我請教一下，交通部管所有的部門，你們不可能不知道高鐵董事長那麼重要的位置，結果是一個空降的政委，一個過去在文化部、文化領域的人。他在文化領域的部分表現怎麼樣見仁見智，但至少他有在文化領域耕耘，可是現在是完全沒有任何交通背景的人要來接高鐵董事長，您一個老交通人可以接受嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我要跟……"],["洪委員孟楷：交通的專業有那麼容易被取代，可以讓外界隨便一個人就來空降嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我要跟委員說明是，所有交通業務的推動其實是靠所有交通人大家共同努力，只要在這個團隊裡面的人大概都是我們所稱的交通人，都一定會發揮他的作用及能力，每個人職司其職，把事情做好。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在你是要用過去幾十年的背景，來認可一個過去從來沒有在交通領域的人來到高鐵，因為他官大學問大，因為他黨證無敵，接了董事長之後，他就變交通人了，是這樣嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我再跟委員說明，就是所有這樣的一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，有沒有看到媒體的報導？這是今天媒體的報導，「不懂交通專業、營運轉型，憑什麼當上高鐵董座？」前民進黨政府時代的交通部長也講，要說清楚用人的原因。現在是搭過高鐵就可以當高鐵董事長，是不是？全臺灣只要有搭過高鐵的人，只要有做過服務的、坐過經濟艙的、坐過自由座的，就可以來當高鐵董事長？他憑什麼？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，交通的專業上或治理上，其實是要靠大家共同努力，剛才委員特別提到有搭過什麼就一定可以什麼，我想這個跟用人是不可以劃等號的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以今天大家只要努力，也不用學習什麼專業，只要努力，我就不用有相關的背景。"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，一個交通團隊的帶領……"],["洪委員孟楷：我其實是覺得滿遺憾的……"],["陳次長彥伯：其實是靠著各個領域的人才在這裡匯集的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們今天是交通委員會討論的都是……我一直強調在交通委員會裡面沒有媒體是好事情，為什麼？就代表沒有出事，大眾運輸也不能有任何的出事，因為出了事情都不是你我任何人可以承擔得起。但是今天那麼兒戲，專業外行領導內行，政治效忠步步高升，把一個董事長空降來，沒有一個交通部的人敢講一句不對，還要幫他洗地。","今天問的問題，我覺得我很公允地問，他有什麼交通專業，指出來！他有什麼長才，是我們2,350萬人中有交通博士、交通碩士，及每一個那麼優質的交通部人才，都沒有辦法接任高鐵董事長，只有一個外行、過去沒有在交通領域服務的人，他可以這樣空降來？"],["陳次長彥伯：我想跟委員報告，爾後不管是高鐵或臺鐵，其實他是董事長，是在做公司治理，所以他只要具有能力把公司治理做得很好，都是很棒的交通人。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，政委負責督導部會，對不對？"],["陳次長彥伯：政委依他的權責，是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在督導交通部的是誰、是哪一位政委？"],["陳次長彥伯：有各個不同領域，有不同……就是不同的業務有不同的政委。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在督導交通部的是哪一個政委？"],["陳次長彥伯：如果是工程，有陳金德政委；如果是觀光，是史哲政委。"],["洪委員孟楷：觀光是史哲政委。"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：史哲政委負責的部會，是包括文化部、教育部、客委會跟故宮。"],["陳次長彥伯：也包含觀光的業務在裡面。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你認為高鐵是觀光比交通專業重要就對了？"],["陳次長彥伯：我再次強調，跟委員說明……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，你這樣子真的是讓本席非常遺憾，國人都看到眼裡，既然你要講專業、要講董事會，現在是講還沒有通過董事會確定，對不對？"],["陳次長彥伯：相關行政程序還沒有走完，當然後續的高鐵董事會有相關的公司治理去處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我們就來看一下高鐵網站上面董事會怎麼規範。我今天在高鐵網站上特別找到相關董事會治理辦法，其中載明「建置於本公司董事人才資料庫，並適時提送董事會審議」，請教一下，史哲什麼時候有被納入高鐵公司董事人才資料庫？"],["陳次長彥伯：我想我要進一步去了解高鐵……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有？"],["陳次長彥伯：因為是牽涉到高鐵公司的……"],["洪委員孟楷：一定有嘛，這是高鐵網站上的……"],["陳次長彥伯：因為牽涉到高鐵公司的公司治理部分，在這裡我恐怕無法替高鐵公司來回答。"],["洪委員孟楷：讓我們國人了解一下，什麼時候「史哲」這個名字出現在高鐵董事人才資料庫裡面，並且適時提送董事會審議？不要告訴我們是這兩天喔！我想如果說前面有董事人選辦法，因為這個是董事要互相選出董事，「本公司董事長之選任，大股東於推薦前亦以其所定遴選、管理及考核要點為指引，全面評估、檢視並確認董事長人選之資格及其相關經驗，並符合公司營運所需且能擔負重任，恪遵用人唯才、適才適所為董事長接班規劃之最高原則」，這是高鐵網站上面清清楚楚白紙黑字寫的，有遴選管理考核要點指引，全面評估檢視確認董事長人選的資格跟相關經驗，剛剛討論了半天，史哲的相關經驗是零啊！你用一句只要努力能夠加入就是交通人來幫他脫罪，就代表他過去沒有任何相關經驗。負責公司營運並且擔任重責、用人唯才、適才適所，有嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：首先跟我跟委員回應兩個，我剛才特別提到每一個適任公司董事長的人都有其專業，當然他也一定要努力。另外一個，這裡特別提到高鐵公司的遴選相關規定，牽涉到高鐵公司治理，我也相信高鐵公司一定是依循這樣子的程序遴選董事，也會經過高鐵公司董事會來處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會愈講愈心虛啊，次長？高鐵公司108年10月16日還修訂了永續發展暨提名委員會，也請您回去找一下相關資料，告訴國人所謂高鐵公司的永續發展暨提名委員會，過去歷屆開會以來，有沒有曾經出現過史哲的名字，好不好？今天讓國人看到他其實是之前就被討論，還是真的是高層欽點，只要黨證無敵，有黨證、有關係就沒關係，沒關係的話大家就慢慢等，即便工作了幾十年的交通人，今天次長用一句話說你只要加入就是交通人了，我也不知道這樣子的講法以後大家能不能接受，為了一個高官升官、為了一個有黨證的人升官，然後打擊了所有交通部、所有交通人的信心，他們工作了10年、20年、30年，念了交通博士、交通碩士、運輸所，沒有用，只要今天加入就可以當作交通人，這就是現在民進黨政府展現的態度跟讓國人看到的狀況。","我今天對任何人都沒有喜好，我對事不對人，今天這個人拿的是其他黨的黨證，如果沒有交通專業我一樣批評，因為這是很離譜的事情。國家高鐵是那麼重要，現在每天運輸多少人的高鐵，結果治理公司的董事長居然可以這樣子空降，真的是國家是你們家耶、國家是民進黨耶，非常離譜跟荒謬。"],["陳次長彥伯：我想最後還是要跟委員報告，所有的相關高鐵董事長產生，最後還是要尊重高鐵董事會的決定和相關程序。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在要推給高鐵董事會就對了。"],["陳次長彥伯：相關的程序還是要完備……"],["洪委員孟楷：高鐵董事會9名董事，有7名是官派的……"],["陳次長彥伯：最後高鐵董事會還是要經過公司治理方式來產生。"],["洪委員孟楷：然後現在行政院傳出政院人士講說欽點史哲來當高鐵董事長，這就是民進黨政府給國人看到的交通專業，謝謝。"],["陳次長彥伯：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢。","現在請李昆澤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-15","speakers":["林國成","林思銘","林月琴","廖先翔","牛煦庭","游顥","羅廷瑋","林德福","洪孟楷","李昆澤","黃國昌","陳素月","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","蔡其昌","邱若華","許智傑","陳雪生","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳俊宇","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","葉元之","林俊憲","徐欣瑩","麥玉珍"],"page_start":327,"meetingDate":["2025-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1145802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145802_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員徐巧芯等23人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一條文修正草案」、二、委員\n邱鎮軍等21人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」、三、委員吳\n沛憶等18人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第十四條條文修正草案」、四、委員廖先翔等18人擬具\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第十六條條文修正草案」、五、委員牛煦庭等23人擬具「道路交通管理\n處罰條例第十六條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」、六、委員顏寬恒等23人擬具「道路交通管理\n處罰條例第十六條及第四十三條條文修正草案」、七、委員林思銘等18人、八、委員林月琴等23\n人、九、委員魯明哲等21人、十、委員陳俊宇等18人、十一、委員羅智強等16人、十二、委員陳\n菁徽等18人、十三、委員黃健豪等19人、十四、委員李坤城等24人、十五、委員邱若華等17人、\n十六、委員羅廷瑋等16人、十七、委員張宏陸等18人分別擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第二十一\n條條文修正草案」、十八、委員蔡其昌等20人、十九、委員林俊憲等26人分別擬具「道路交通管\n理處罰條例部分條文修正草案」、二十、委員陳素月等17人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第二十\n一條、第二十一條之一及第八十五條之三條文修正草案」、二十一、委員顏寬恒等21人擬具「道\n路交通管理處罰條例第二十七條條文修正草案」、二十二、委員林德福等17人擬具「道路交通管\n理處罰條例第三十條條文修正草案」、二十三、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例\n第三十三條條文修正草案」、二十四、委員林德福等 16 人、二十五、委員邱若華等18 人、二十\n六、台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條條文修正草案」、二十七、委\n員黃健豪等19人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條、第三十五條之二及第六十七條條文修\n正草案」、二十八、委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第四十四條及第四十五條條\n文修正草案」、二十九、委員林俊憲等23人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第四十五條條文修正草\n案」、三十、委員牛煦庭等18人、三十一、委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例\n第五十六條條文修正草案」、三十二、台灣民眾黨黨團 (11-1-13) 、三十三、台灣民眾黨黨團\n(11-1-21)分別擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第六十七條條文修正草案」、三十四、委員羅智強\n等16人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第七十二條條文修正草案」、三十五、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七十八條及第八十四條條文修正草案」、三十六、委員魯明哲等16人\n擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第八十條條文修正草案」、三十七、委員林俊憲等20人、三十八、\n委員廖先翔等19人、三十九、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具分別「道路交通管理處罰條例第九十二條條文\n修正草案」及四十、委員林思銘等23人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例增訂第九十二條之二條文草\n案」案【本日會議僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1145802_00004"}}}