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00:00:53,227\n一輩子很長的時間很長的時間然後在那個六四是那個節點就判生死那所以我們也體認到委員的這種這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候\n\n4\n00:01:11,224 --> 00:01:22,300\n我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民\n\n5\n00:01:23,615 --> 00:01:51,182\n不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望\n\n6\n00:01:52,322 --> 00:02:09,184\n農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部要求我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部\n\n7\n00:02:11,126 --> 00:02:24,812\n輕速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他\n\n8\n00:02:27,953 --> 00:02:43,217\n等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的\n\n9\n00:02:49,718 --> 00:03:14,170\n包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓\n\n10\n00:03:16,591 --> 00:03:32,718\n這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎\n\n11\n00:03:39,875 --> 00:03:52,411\n知道琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點是最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件\n\n12\n00:03:55,695 --> 00:03:58,536\n到去年已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括\n\n13\n00:04:13,963 --> 00:04:29,870\n這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢\n\n14\n00:04:38,769 --> 00:04:54,205\n我跟委員報告,雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講,因為它不會危害農作物,所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲,我們就不理它\n\n15\n00:04:55,287 --> 00:05:22,690\n第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛福部起動對不起環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業的害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理\n\n16\n00:05:24,031 --> 00:05:38,426\n因為每一年都發生每一年都發生而且越來越嚴重所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決\n\n17\n00:05:39,227 --> 00:06:06,435\n太棒了這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個\n\n18\n00:06:07,435 --> 00:06:24,170\n琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的\n\n19\n00:06:25,151 --> 00:06:29,055\n意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台\n\n20\n00:06:46,713 --> 00:07:01,892\n那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是\n\n21\n00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:16,177\n不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊\n\n22\n00:07:18,338 --> 00:07:33,206\n討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁撤掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛國討論是不是小黑文真的很嚴重我跟委員報告您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃\n\n23\n00:07:42,310 --> 00:08:11,277\n而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位對還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治\n\n24\n00:08:11,997 --> 00:08:26,296\n那特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分那會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動然後如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為\n\n25\n00:08:27,117 --> 00:08:34,278\n這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為\n\n26\n00:08:55,782 --> 00:09:14,334\n才三年喔這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦\n\n27\n00:09:16,575 --> 00:09:40,586\n既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道\n\n28\n00:09:41,206 --> 00:09:44,328\n謝謝那另外呢我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成\n\n29\n00:10:10,601 --> 00:10:17,207\n14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的\n\n30\n00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:45,215\n房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是\n\n31\n00:10:46,076 --> 00:11:00,161\n其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16\n\n32\n00:11:02,302 --> 00:11:22,680\n一個更重要的是土地的公告限制漲了百分之六十幾所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整\n\n33\n00:11:25,623 --> 00:11:47,106\n那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後再下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取折中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式\n\n34\n00:11:47,666 --> 00:12:08,383\n那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力\n\n35\n00:12:08,783 --> 00:12:26,569\n在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實\n\n36\n00:12:28,630 --> 00:12:50,628\n我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我覺得我們絕對有信心\n\n37\n00:12:52,249 --> 00:13:03,736\n如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農喔因為他們這一輩子務農喔如果我們的排富條款喔門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸啦所以也希望我們在做這件事的\n\n38\n00:13:17,864 --> 00:13:21,990\n能夠常常記起他們的這個辛酸跟他們的需求我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7094\t8675\t主席我想請陳主委陳部長陳部長部長早已經午安了我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到有關於農保清朝讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來\n32341\t48943\t包括說可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會讓他們有一個緩衝的時間然後把他的農保救回來的機會呢我想謝謝委員的提問我知道委員也非常關心就是農保保了\n49804\t53227\t一輩子很長的時間很長的時間然後在那個六四是那個節點就判生死那所以我們也體認到委員的這種這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候\n71224\t82300\t我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民\n83615\t111182\t不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望\n112322\t129184\t農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部要求我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部\n131126\t144812\t輕速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他\n147953\t163217\t等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的\n169718\t194170\t包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓\n196591\t212718\t這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎\n219875\t232411\t知道 琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點是最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件\n235695\t238536\t到去年已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括\n253963\t269870\t這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢\n278769\t294205\t我跟委員報告,雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講,因為它不會危害農作物,所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲,我們就不理它\n295287\t322690\t第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛福部起動 對不起 環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業的害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理\n324031\t338426\t因為每一年都發生每一年都發生而且越來越嚴重所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決\n339227\t366435\t太棒了 這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園 住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個\n367435\t384170\t琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的\n385151\t389055\t意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台\n406713\t421892\t那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是\n423173\t436177\t不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊\n438338\t453206\t討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁撤掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛國討論是不是小黑文真的很嚴重我跟委員報告您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃\n462310\t491277\t而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位對還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治\n491997\t506296\t那特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分那會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動然後如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為\n507117\t514278\t這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為\n535782\t554334\t才三年喔 這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛 這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了 那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常 就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁 我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦\n556575\t580586\t既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道\n581206\t584328\t謝謝 那另外呢 我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成\n610601\t617207\t14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的\n629720\t645215\t房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是\n646076\t660161\t其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16\n662302\t682680\t一個更重要的是土地的公告限制漲了百分之六十幾所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整\n685623\t707106\t那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後再下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取折中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式\n707666\t728383\t那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力\n728783\t746569\t在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實\n748630\t770628\t我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我覺得我們絕對有信心\n772249\t783736\t如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農喔因為他們這一輩子務農喔如果我們的排富條款喔門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸啦所以也希望我們在做這件事的\n797864\t801990\t能夠常常記起他們的這個辛酸跟他們的需求我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請\n","txt":"主席我想請陳主委陳部長陳部長部長早已經午安了我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到有關於農保清朝讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來\n包括說可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會讓他們有一個緩衝的時間然後把他的農保救回來的機會呢我想謝謝委員的提問我知道委員也非常關心就是農保保了\n一輩子很長的時間很長的時間然後在那個六四是那個節點就判生死那所以我們也體認到委員的這種這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候\n我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民\n不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望\n農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部要求我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部\n輕速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他\n等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的\n包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓\n這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎\n知道 琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點是最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件\n到去年已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括\n這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢\n我跟委員報告,雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講,因為它不會危害農作物,所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲,我們就不理它\n第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛福部起動 對不起 環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業的害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理\n因為每一年都發生每一年都發生而且越來越嚴重所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決\n太棒了 這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園 住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個\n琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的\n意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台\n那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是\n不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊\n討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁撤掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛國討論是不是小黑文真的很嚴重我跟委員報告您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃\n而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位對還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治\n那特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分那會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動然後如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為\n這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為\n才三年喔 這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛 這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了 那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常 就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁 我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦\n既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道\n謝謝 那另外呢 我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成\n14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的\n房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是\n其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16\n一個更重要的是土地的公告限制漲了百分之六十幾所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整\n那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後再下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取折中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式\n那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力\n在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實\n我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我覺得我們絕對有信心\n如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農喔因為他們這一輩子務農喔如果我們的排富條款喔門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸啦所以也希望我們在做這件事的\n能夠常常記起他們的這個辛酸跟他們的需求我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.094 --> 00:08.675\n主席我想請陳主委陳部長陳部長部長早已經午安了我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到有關於農保清朝讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來\n\n00:32.341 --> 00:48.943\n包括說可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會讓他們有一個緩衝的時間然後把他的農保救回來的機會呢我想謝謝委員的提問我知道委員也非常關心就是農保保了\n\n00:49.804 --> 00:53.227\n一輩子很長的時間很長的時間然後在那個六四是那個節點就判生死那所以我們也體認到委員的這種這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候\n\n01:11.224 --> 01:22.300\n我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民\n\n01:23.615 --> 01:51.182\n不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望\n\n01:52.322 --> 02:09.184\n農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部要求我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部\n\n02:11.126 --> 02:24.812\n輕速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他\n\n02:27.953 --> 02:43.217\n等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的\n\n02:49.718 --> 03:14.170\n包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓\n\n03:16.591 --> 03:32.718\n這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎\n\n03:39.875 --> 03:52.411\n知道琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點是最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件\n\n03:55.695 --> 03:58.536\n到去年已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括\n\n04:13.963 --> 04:29.870\n這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢\n\n04:38.769 --> 04:54.205\n我跟委員報告,雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講,因為它不會危害農作物,所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲,我們就不理它\n\n04:55.287 --> 05:22.690\n第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛福部起動對不起環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業的害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理\n\n05:24.031 --> 05:38.426\n因為每一年都發生每一年都發生而且越來越嚴重所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決\n\n05:39.227 --> 06:06.435\n太棒了這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個\n\n06:07.435 --> 06:24.170\n琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的\n\n06:25.151 --> 06:29.055\n意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台\n\n06:46.713 --> 07:01.892\n那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是\n\n07:03.173 --> 07:16.177\n不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊\n\n07:18.338 --> 07:33.206\n討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁撤掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛國討論是不是小黑文真的很嚴重我跟委員報告您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃\n\n07:42.310 --> 08:11.277\n而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位對還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治\n\n08:11.997 --> 08:26.296\n那特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分那會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動然後如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為\n\n08:27.117 --> 08:34.278\n這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為\n\n08:55.782 --> 09:14.334\n才三年喔這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦\n\n09:16.575 --> 09:40.586\n既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道\n\n09:41.206 --> 09:44.328\n謝謝那另外呢我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成\n\n10:10.601 --> 10:17.207\n14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的\n\n10:29.720 --> 10:45.215\n房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是\n\n10:46.076 --> 11:00.161\n其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16\n\n11:02.302 --> 11:22.680\n一個更重要的是土地的公告限制漲了百分之六十幾所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整\n\n11:25.623 --> 11:47.106\n那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後再下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取折中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式\n\n11:47.666 --> 12:08.383\n那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力\n\n12:08.783 --> 12:26.569\n在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實\n\n12:28.630 --> 12:50.628\n我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我覺得我們絕對有信心\n\n12:52.249 --> 13:03.736\n如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農喔因為他們這一輩子務農喔如果我們的排富條款喔門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸啦所以也希望我們在做這件事的\n\n13:17.864 --> 13:21.990\n能夠常常記起他們的這個辛酸跟他們的需求我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.094,"end":8.675,"text":"主席我想請陳主委陳部長陳部長部長早已經午安了我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到有關於農保清朝讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":32.341,"end":48.943,"text":"包括說可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會讓他們有一個緩衝的時間然後把他的農保救回來的機會呢我想謝謝委員的提問我知道委員也非常關心就是農保保了"},{"start":49.804,"end":53.227,"text":"一輩子很長的時間很長的時間然後在那個六四是那個節點就判生死那所以我們也體認到委員的這種這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候"},{"start":71.224,"end":82.3,"text":"我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民"},{"start":83.615,"end":111.182,"text":"不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望"},{"start":112.322,"end":129.184,"text":"農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部要求我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部"},{"start":131.126,"end":144.812,"text":"輕速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他"},{"start":147.953,"end":163.217,"text":"等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的"},{"start":169.718,"end":194.17,"text":"包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓"},{"start":196.591,"end":212.718,"text":"這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎"},{"start":219.875,"end":232.411,"text":"知道 琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點是最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件"},{"start":235.695,"end":238.536,"text":"到去年已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括"},{"start":253.963,"end":269.87,"text":"這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢"},{"start":278.769,"end":294.205,"text":"我跟委員報告,雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講,因為它不會危害農作物,所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲,我們就不理它"},{"start":295.287,"end":322.69,"text":"第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛福部起動 對不起 環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業的害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理"},{"start":324.031,"end":338.426,"text":"因為每一年都發生每一年都發生而且越來越嚴重所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決"},{"start":339.227,"end":366.435,"text":"太棒了 這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園 住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個"},{"start":367.435,"end":384.17,"text":"琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的"},{"start":385.151,"end":389.055,"text":"意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台"},{"start":406.713,"end":421.892,"text":"那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是"},{"start":423.173,"end":436.177,"text":"不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊"},{"start":438.338,"end":453.206,"text":"討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁撤掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛國討論是不是小黑文真的很嚴重我跟委員報告您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃"},{"start":462.31,"end":491.277,"text":"而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位對還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治"},{"start":491.997,"end":506.296,"text":"那特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分那會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動然後如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為"},{"start":507.117,"end":514.278,"text":"這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為"},{"start":535.782,"end":554.334,"text":"才三年喔 這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛 這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了 那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常 就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁 我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦"},{"start":556.575,"end":580.586,"text":"既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道"},{"start":581.206,"end":584.328,"text":"謝謝 那另外呢 我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成"},{"start":610.601,"end":617.207,"text":"14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的"},{"start":629.72,"end":645.215,"text":"房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是"},{"start":646.076,"end":660.161,"text":"其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16"},{"start":662.302,"end":682.68,"text":"一個更重要的是土地的公告限制漲了百分之六十幾所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整"},{"start":685.623,"end":707.106,"text":"那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後再下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取折中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式"},{"start":707.666,"end":728.383,"text":"那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力"},{"start":728.783,"end":746.569,"text":"在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實"},{"start":748.63,"end":770.628,"text":"我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我覺得我們絕對有信心"},{"start":772.249,"end":783.736,"text":"如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農喔因為他們這一輩子務農喔如果我們的排富條款喔門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸啦所以也希望我們在做這件事的"},{"start":797.864,"end":801.99,"text":"能夠常常記起他們的這個辛酸跟他們的需求我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":738,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（11時33分）主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯）：陳部長。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長早，已經午安了啦！"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到關於農保清查讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情，請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來？包括可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會，讓他們有一個緩衝時間把他的農保救回來呢？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提問，我知道委員也非常關心，農保保了……"],["張委員嘉郡：一輩子，可能一、二十年。"],["陳部長駿季：很長的時間以後，在64.4那個節點就判生死，所以我們也體認到委員的這種關心，而且實務上我們現在有個設計就是，往前我們先主動清查，如果發現他可能不符合規定的時候，我們就主動的希望他趕快補件，我舉個例子，有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾稽，買賣的當下可能農民不了解嚴重性。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒錯。"],["陳部長駿季：如果他買賣的時候，我們發現了，我們就提前跟他講，他要趕快去補那個地還有一些時間點，所以用這種方式。"],["張委員嘉郡：懂，大概會預留多少時間讓他去補呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在初步規定半年是比較適當，因為太長……"],["張委員嘉郡：半年以內。"],["陳部長駿季：太長也沒有用。"],["張委員嘉郡：我覺得合理。"],["陳部長駿季：大概半年之內，所以我們3個月之內會有……我們現在有很多規範，基本上我們不希望農民花了那麼多年投保以後被判生死，然後過去很多……"],["張委員嘉郡：對，然後就失去了他領老農年金的機會。"],["陳部長駿季：過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查，都是審計部要求我們去查的。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個我完全理解，但是還是希望農業部……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們有一個機制……"],["張委員嘉郡：儘速把機制公告出來，讓所有農民有一個依據，甚至所有在辦檢查農保的這些人員可以有一個依據，然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們。"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["張委員嘉郡：否則基層的辦事人員等於是兩手一攤，他也幫不上忙，他不是不願意幫忙，而是不知道怎麼幫忙，如果像部長所講的，有一個這麼好的機制，就是說他有半年可以補救，甚至他如果遇到其他什麼問題，他可以怎麼解決，讓他們有一個補件的機會的話，這樣子很明確地把它列出來，讓所有的包括農民、包括辦事人員都有所依據，我想農業部接收到的陳情也會減少，就會從基層就把這件事情解決，部長，您同意嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我同意。所以3個月之內，我們會把SOP，包括一些該注意的指引跟事項，特別是農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉、水塔要不要扣掉，這個有時候……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，這些細節……"],["陳部長駿季：細節也讓這些地方的人能夠更清楚。"],["張委員嘉郡：更明確、清楚，那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情，趕快落實下來，3個月內趕快提出公告，讓大家可以知道整個SOP、細節怎麼規範，讓大家有所依據，好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員嘉郡：謝謝。部長，你知道琉璃蟻嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：知道，每年大概這個時間點是最多。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，最近琉璃蟻的擴散問題越演越烈，以本席所在的雲林為例，琉璃蟻的通報件數從2019年50件，到去年已經暴增到700件了，今年有可能還會再增加，尤其以林內鄉、古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重，所以琉璃蟻不只是危害多種果樹，包括蜜蜂產業，也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害，因為牠會咬人，所以學界也明確指出琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物病蟲害加劇，對於農業的實質危害已經構成了，面對這樣子的問題，不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，雖然以農業部現在的規範來講，因為琉璃蟻不會危害農作物，所以我們不認為牠是一個農業的害蟲，但是我覺得不能說不認為是農業的害蟲我們就不理它。第二個部分，我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理，可能在居家的環境也要處理，所以我會後會儘速安排跟環境部啟動一個工作平臺，看要怎麼樣共同防治。"],["張委員嘉郡：這很重要。"],["陳部長駿季：雖然牠不是農業害蟲，但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理，因為每一年都發生……"],["張委員嘉郡：每一年都會發生，而且越來越嚴重。"],["陳部長駿季：每一年都會發生，而且在這個季節，所以不及時處理的時候，我覺得受害的是民眾或是農民，所以我會主動成立一個工作平臺看怎麼樣共同來解決。"],["張委員嘉郡：太棒了，如果部長主動來做這件事情，我相信所有農民都會給你鼓掌，因為真的已經影響到他們一般的……"],["陳部長駿季：是，我知道。"],["張委員嘉郡：作業的工作過程，包括也入侵了很多校園、住宅等等，如果農業部趕快發起，主動跟他們有一個跨部會的討論，我想這是非常非常重要，因為學界指出琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種，依法其實是希望農業部要趕快啟動嚴格管理機制，是不是要列為害蟲，我想你們有一個評估的標準，但是我想要建議部長的就是，過去像荔枝椿象，我們當初就編列了1.5億的預算，然後跟地方合力釋放牠的天敵平腹小蜂；再往前看紅火蟻的入侵，那時候也有成立一個國家紅火蟻防治中心，打造一個全民通報平臺。現在面對琉璃蟻同樣擴散這麼迅速，然後造成跨場域的影響、災害，能不能研議一個常設的害蟲防治中心？不是只針對琉璃蟻，是不是農業部能夠有一個常設的害蟲防治中心，針對不同的物種，等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊討論。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，您所提的……"],["張委員嘉郡：還有那個小黑蚊，小黑蚊防治中心為什麼三年就裁撤掉了？你知道現在小黑蚊有多嚴重嗎？主委，是不是除了琉璃蟻之外，小黑蚊的問題也一起跟衛福部討論？"],["陳部長駿季：我的手也都被小黑蚊咬耶！"],["張委員嘉郡：是不是！小黑蚊真的很嚴重耶！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，您剛才所提的建議，其實我們現在已經在規劃，不是純粹農業害蟲，是農業病蟲害的監測防治中心，然後在這個中心之下，我希望幾個主要產區都有一個類似區域中心的概念，包括了很多監測，所以我們現在也陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的方式，因為不能只靠農業部或農業部所屬單位。"],["張委員嘉郡：懂，就等於是產、官、學大家合作。"],["陳部長駿季：對，一起來做，這樣才能更有系統的防治。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒錯！"],["陳部長駿季：特別是針對一些琉璃蟻的部分，會等到工作平臺去處理，因為要同步啟動，而不是只有農業這邊來啟動。至於所需要的經費，我們也會想辦法爭取來支持這樣一個防治的作為。"],["張委員嘉郡：這一點也要特別請主委關心，趕快編預算，然後趕快落實，針對整個琉璃蟻的問題，你們現在因應的整個方向在跨部會討論出來之後，是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告，讓我們所有的委員……"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["張委員嘉郡：我想關心的委員也很多，能夠很明確地知道農業部現在已經很積極地在處理這件事情。當然，剛剛講到的小黑蚊，也要拜託部長，因為才三年，這個小黑蚊防治中心就裁撤掉了，但其實現在小黑蚊的問題並沒有減少，不能夠習以為常後就忘記了小黑蚊的影響。"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們在工作平臺會跟環境部來建議，因為小黑蚊是環境部在處理的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道……"],["陳部長駿季：我們再一起來看怎麼處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：既然你要跟他講琉璃蟻，小黑蚊的部分也拜託部長一起跟他提……"],["陳部長駿季：我們跟環境部……"],["張委員嘉郡：到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講。"],["陳部長駿季：我們跟環境部有很好的溝通平臺啦，包括一些循環再利用的場域等等這些東西，我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案，到時候這個會議的一些相關決議，我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。","另外我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題，因為自100年起老農津貼就設有排富門檻，也就是如果有不動產價值超過500萬，就不能夠領老農津貼，到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻，但在這當中房價漲了六至八成，14年來房價已經飛漲了，物價也上升了18%，這個排富的標準門檻還留在14年前，也就是民國100年的水準，已經嚴重失衡，所以有很多真正在務農的老農，因為他的房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之外，所以他的生活權益也受損了，主委上次也有提到會趕快積極去修改這個部分。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個跟委員說明，其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本，以現在來看的話，其實影響到目前必須調整有兩個因素，一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分，上漲了大概15%、16%……"],["張委員嘉郡：將近18%。"],["陳部長駿季：另一個更重要的是土地公告現值漲了百分之六十幾。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，六成至八成，因地區不等。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們也認同適度排富的條件，包括你的所得、包括自有住宅的扣除，還有你的財產所得，這三個部分我們會做適度的調整，我們現在規劃後會送到行政院，在下個會期會送進來，基本上……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以已經有規劃了？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上我們的規劃大概是……"],["張委員嘉郡：規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：委員大概有十幾個版本，我們的規劃方向大概在委員版本的中間。"],["張委員嘉郡：中間？"],["陳部長駿季：中間。"],["張委員嘉郡：就是取折衷？"],["陳部長駿季：我們不是這樣取的，我們有一個計算公式。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解。"],["陳部長駿季：對，因為現在還沒有報院，所有東西必須報院以後才能夠對外，不過大方向跟大家的方向是一致的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我也要跟部長說，我們經濟委員會的所有委員，甚至關心農業的所有委員，其實都可以成為你的助力。在你報院之前，假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道了，我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本，大家互相幫忙，只要是對農民有利的，我們是不分你我一起來努力，讓這個趕快落實。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員，不管是任何黨派的，我覺得對農業都是支持的，其實我們擔心的是黨團那邊的提案，這個你也非常清楚。"],["張委員嘉郡：對。"],["陳部長駿季：第二個部分，這個案子我們有信心可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持，我們絕對有信心。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，如果你有需要的時候，請你不要客氣，你就把這個需求發出來，我們大家共同來支持！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：最後，我真的也希望這些老農，因為他們一輩子務農，如果我們的排富條款門檻不與時俱進，把他們排除在外，讓他們沒有辦法獲得應有的保障，我覺得是很心酸，所以也希望我們在做這件事的時候，能夠常常記起他們的心酸跟他們的需求。"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們會來努力。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請蔡易餘委員詢答。","另外作以下宣告，我們中午不休息，延長開會時間。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林德福","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","郭國文","陳亭妃","李坤城","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","陳超明","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","李彥秀","麥玉珍","黃珊珊","呂玉玲","林思銘","羅明才","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1145901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農業保險法第十條條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員邱\n若華等21人擬具「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145901_00002"}}}