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\"部\", \"start\": 810.896, \"end\": 811.036, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 811.036, \"end\": 811.056, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,129 --> 00:00:14,612\n謝謝主席有請法務部我們鄭部長還有麻煩鄭部長蔣正署我們周署長周署長部長署長韋豪韋豪來當一次公道伯來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法剛剛召委是在提到這個整個刑務訴訟法第98條訊問被告因出於懇切的態度他認為這個不是證據能力\n\n2\n00:00:37,604 --> 00:00:42,768\n這個可能要修正一下我們在念書的時候念法律系的98條一定是跟150條接著看任何人詢問完以後那個當然是一個訓示規定可是如果是出於強暴脅迫或者說詐欺甚至於不正的方法那到最後都不得當證據部長講的就對了那是一個證據能力的一個問題\n\n3\n00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:03,886\n一併提出來大家說參考那我今天特別要請教幾個問題就是說雖然署長要退休但是我也有幾個問題要做一個討論\n\n4\n00:01:13,171 --> 00:01:38,090\n你像早有今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義高雄監獄也爆發了不當的一個管教失敗調查當中那我們再看這個台東太原監獄收容人戶歐的嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北京蔣城這些都產生了很大的一個爭議但是這個事後我看到我們矯正署都會發一些新聞稿懲處人員矯正署\n\n5\n00:01:42,560 --> 00:02:00,376\n其實應該被外界期待的是說我們有沒有去系統性的去盤點這些問題的根源這一些問題的發生我都認為這個其實只是冰山一角黑樹都還沒有出來了都很正常法務部是一個很特殊的一個機關我們的機關裡面\n\n6\n00:02:03,639 --> 00:02:06,601\n社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪宅監發服整個社會的秩序治安都要加強去防範打擊犯罪可是我們底下只要是起訴了法院判決了定讞了以後\n\n7\n00:02:26,591 --> 00:02:37,994\n又會回到我們法務部底下的矯正署這個是很衝突的一個命題但沒辦法沒辦法所以北京有些人陶醉的人說這很可惡這要怎麼做要怎麼跟人家說要去破黨行甚至要破私營如果我去跟人家說人權人權要注意很衝突但是呢這個世界各國皆然我們是特別想要問的就是說\n\n8\n00:02:52,516 --> 00:02:58,069\n除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該去做一個檢討以外系統性的盤點以外最近台東\n\n9\n00:02:59,397 --> 00:03:15,351\n台東你看你們東城監獄這個地方這個讓人比較痛心的啦其實六月份醫療暴力就有好幾件了嘛三總那個地方也有那這一次是發生在我們東城監獄裡面那資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東城監獄執行這個看診的一個勤務那收容人你用鉛子筆給他插他的臉啊勒那個警部去施暴\n\n10\n00:03:25,399 --> 00:03:46,412\n那多處受傷那當然到最後送醫院去救治啦這個不是第一次收容人去攻擊醫護人員我相信也不會是最後一次聽到啦那當然我們都支持在監所的人這些收容我們提供他人道的醫療的一個服務可是呢\n\n11\n00:03:47,192 --> 00:04:00,024\n這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人第一線的醫護人員基本的人身安全我相信部長你應該也特別有感也應該要受到制度上的一個保障那我特別要提出來就是說台東護理師公園他們也\n\n12\n00:04:02,335 --> 00:04:20,173\n提了幾點訴求我希望部長也來做一個回應啦聽話有道理嗎你知道他們說是否你們應該跟衛福部共同來檢討現行的一個矯正醫護制度的一個缺口你制定陸間醫療安全的一個指引你設一個指引給他們啦針對醫護人員進出監所勤務明確去規範安全措施跟風險的預警的一個程序\n\n13\n00:04:25,999 --> 00:04:43,372\n不然我覺得合理這個應該要這樣做應該要做那第一點你回應的還有第二個就是說現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件醫院裡面院方當然他啟動啊他有針對心理輔導法律協助的一個機制這個人家醫院有啊那我們監鎖人家去哪裡找啊\n\n14\n00:04:45,573 --> 00:05:07,832\n我們醫護人員受到這樣子的話我們法律上心理上但心理上不可能叫你監守要怕死監守你是在輔導輔導針對那個一些受刑人的那至少我們也可以跟衛福部來做一個討論那這一些醫療暴力通報跟應變處理機制來提供當事人的法律協助跟心理重建的一個資源不要給這些醫護喔\n\n15\n00:05:10,454 --> 00:05:36,295\n獨自去承擔這樣的一個制度上的一個風險這個我覺得不知道柏定跟蘇定你們是不是可以做一個回應像那個一般的那個醫療處所我們現在檢察機關有建立一個連續的一個窗口那我們有對這些供給醫護人員有專注辦案那也有從眾的來求醒那當然我也有提到了這個的確在監所裡面的這些醫護到裡面的是不是一個\n\n16\n00:05:37,917 --> 00:05:50,714\n這個缺口那這部分我也承諾就是說以後我們會跟衛福部來做一個聯繫來討論如何補足這個缺口我們做一個諮詢那有一個issue那剛才委員有提到就是那個這個醫護人員這部分\n\n17\n00:05:53,257 --> 00:06:15,225\n供給這部分我們也就是會強化我們看診區的一個介乎的管理我們本身先檢討先來設置那另外這些供給的這些收容人這個收供給的這些這個收容人那我們也依規定來辦理違規的嚴懲那這部分台東地檢水分案來追究那個行政你幹嘛六月份看到那個\n\n18\n00:06:16,025 --> 00:06:25,398\n三軍總院發生的醫療暴力的時候醫師團體護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法要去加重醫療法裡面去加重\n\n19\n00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:46,806\n何況一般醫院都有這樣的一個要求到監獄裡面去的這個法務部我們更不應該視而不見那另外就是說以目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監的服務的時候你們契約內容幾乎沒有去保障跟執勤條件跟風險的一個配套所以這樣有道理我覺得你這個制度的漏洞\n\n20\n00:06:51,141 --> 00:07:05,993\n重新再去做一個檢討你說檢討說對於矯正機關醫療服務的你們那個契約裡面的內容的部分可能一併的去請我們矯正署這個地方來去做一個盤點也呼應這個醫師公會這樣的一個訴求態度要出來\n\n21\n00:07:10,256 --> 00:07:33,208\n是包括我們監所對於那個入監的醫護人員的安全保障我們會依照全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業息之裡面的相關第九條的規定來協助現場安全的介護那包括委員有提到那個我們可是你們現在契約沒有啊\n\n22\n00:07:34,268 --> 00:07:55,133\n我們會依照這個作業西施這個部分來再盤點一下這個是衛福部訂的作業西施我們會來做相關的配合辦理那委員有提到我們隔天典議長也有到台東基督教育院慰問那位護理師而且給他實質的關懷慰問金那也跟\n\n23\n00:07:55,933 --> 00:08:12,547\n台東基督教的院長做溝通所以我所知道的台東衛生局也有召開比如地檢署相關的醫院的一個會議來做相關因應的加強安全措施\n\n24\n00:08:13,247 --> 00:08:35,855\n這個是我們腳證署應該要去做的啦因為你說醫療法的一個修法那個到底立法院這個地方有沒有辦法或者說你這個法務部會提出草案這目前我們知道嘛但至少我們現在能做的我們就盡量去做我最後一個問題要請教啦就是也是跟我們跟你書中有關的嘛最近司法法治委員會我們真的很用心\n\n25\n00:08:36,815 --> 00:08:59,077\n我們一直在排考察都是在監獄我們對於這個整個考核的一個制度我相信署長其實雖然很快就要退休了對於整個雷勁廚藝這個部分你說廢掉到監獄行刑的部分去做一個規範這個是一個進步但是以現在我相信你也很清楚在監獄裡面\n\n26\n00:09:00,919 --> 00:09:21,306\n受刑人他也有牽扯到一個地方所以我剛開宗明義就講說法務部是一個很特殊的機關又要去打擊犯罪打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧到這些受刑人但是制度就是這樣的一個設計可是你去看你目前在考核的話你說有日常的一個獎懲\n\n27\n00:09:22,566 --> 00:09:28,749\n你每個月還要去評分他有操信啊教化啊作業啊然後又變成有責任分數犯的幾次啊撤銷假釋的又不一樣適用的年份又不一樣到最後到一個禁級我的意思就是說我們現在很多輔導人員啊署長你最清楚啊\n\n28\n00:09:42,403 --> 00:09:51,586\n那搞不好大家都變喔都在算數每天都在這樣算都在這樣算分數而已啊所以對這個整個制度的一個變革你本來喔每一個監獄的考核裡面喔大家都定辦法又不太一樣後來是你繳證署是統一讓整個高等行政法院去做一個判決以後要求你們累進廚藝的評分機制應該法務部繳證署去訂定一個制度好了你們現在訂出來了\n\n29\n00:10:11,351 --> 00:10:30,080\n可是我現在比較擔心的就是說,這個高度不確定性,監所裡面如何再繼續去強化那個透明度,跟那個社會的一個公信度,讓公信力要求每一年我們這個外部的一個視察,外部的監督的部分,是不是應該繼續再加強。\n\n30\n00:10:32,958 --> 00:10:50,366\n我們所謂的階段處理新制會來代替這個傳統的所謂累進處理制度那主要是要簡化它的考核制度機制還有縮短刑期還有報假釋的相關的配套\n\n31\n00:10:51,286 --> 00:11:12,977\n那以往我們是點數字現在我們類似日本所謂的變成考察字但是我們會唯一不同日本的考察字他是由管理員來負責考察所以他們的學者就提出說管理員的這個所謂的學養他的能力有沒有\n\n32\n00:11:13,797 --> 00:11:36,150\n做到非常的公平公正的考核所以我們將來的所謂的考核不會說只給管理員來考核我們有一個類似教育小組有一個團體team來做嚴格嚴正的考核因為這個涉及到收容人的所謂的共同權益我們絕對要很慎重要公平公正\n\n33\n00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:45,738\n我跟妳建議啦,因為時間也很少啦,這個問題其實在審法局委員會有幾位委員也都很深入啦我跟妳建議就是說,妳這一生的這樣功力,妳這樣好好地卸一下,卸一下這樣,給補充這樣\n\n34\n00:11:52,483 --> 00:11:54,764\n還要跟他開發寶典讓我們整個矯正的整個這樣的一個業務啊可以讓他更制度化把那一些制度裡面原來目前的一個缺失的這一甲子的功力你也下一個去撈這樣整個在接下來的預證管理讓他可以啊\n\n35\n00:12:13,675 --> 00:12:41,781\n更符合社會的一個期待不知道蘇丁你的看法如何道高委員我們的假釋科都非常的清楚而且我們是委託兩所大學去針對累進處理制度做相關的研討所以我想我們數不管是將來的配套將來的研修應該會很嚴謹而且很公平事正的去處理這一點請委員可以放心\n\n36\n00:12:42,541 --> 00:13:02,268\n我當然會放心可是問題就是說我們這個制度的一個改進真的是太慢為什麼呢你像我們到北京去考察的時候另外一個受刑人裡面有時候是訴罪病法他犯了很多罪嘛剛第一個罪的時候他確定判決是只有六個月而已啊六個月進去了以後呢他十三次更刑啊\n\n37\n00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:09,313\n然後檢察官那個指揮書裡面一共你們假證書一個監獄接到幾張?三十張!光算這個分數你就算到五張了你說對那個受刑人的情緒的一個波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的一個問題啦這些問題誰看得最清楚?你做書你給人家看得很清楚啦不要硬著啦,像那個港府稍微加一點好不好\n\n38\n00:13:30,575 --> 00:13:31,056\n好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9129\t14612\t謝謝主席 有請法務部我們鄭部長還有 麻煩鄭部長 蔣正署我們周署長 周署長部長 署長 韋豪 韋豪來當一次公道伯來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法剛剛召委是在提到這個整個刑務訴訟法第98條訊問被告因出於懇切的態度他認為這個不是證據能力\n37604\t42768\t這個可能要修正一下我們在念書的時候 念法律系的98條一定是跟150條接著看任何人詢問完以後 那個當然是一個訓示規定可是如果是出於強暴脅迫 或者說詐欺甚至於不正的方法 那到最後都不得當證據部長講的就對了 那是一個證據能力的一個問題\n60399\t63886\t一併提出來 大家說參考那我今天特別要請教幾個問題就是說雖然署長要退休但是我也有幾個問題要做一個討論\n73171\t98090\t你像早有今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義高雄監獄也爆發了不當的一個管教失敗調查當中那我們再看這個台東太原監獄收容人戶歐的嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北京蔣城這些都產生了很大的一個爭議但是這個事後我看到我們矯正署都會發一些新聞稿懲處人員 矯正署\n102560\t120376\t其實應該被外界期待的是說我們有沒有去系統性的去盤點這些問題的根源這一些問題的發生我都認為這個其實只是冰山一角黑樹都還沒有出來了都很正常法務部是一個很特殊的一個機關我們的機關裡面\n123639\t126601\t社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪 宅監發服整個社會的秩序 治安都要加強去防範打擊犯罪可是我們底下只要是起訴了 法院判決了 定讞了以後\n146591\t157994\t又會回到我們法務部底下的矯正署這個是很衝突的一個命題 但沒辦法沒辦法 所以北京有些人 陶醉的人說這很可惡 這要怎麼做 要怎麼跟人家說要去破黨行 甚至要破私營如果我去跟人家說人權 人權 要注意 很衝突但是呢 這個世界各國皆然我們是特別想要問的就是說\n172516\t178069\t除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該去做一個檢討以外系統性的盤點以外最近台東\n179397\t195351\t台東 你看你們東城監獄這個地方這個讓人比較痛心的啦其實六月份醫療暴力就有好幾件了嘛三總那個地方也有那這一次是發生在我們東城監獄裡面那資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東城監獄執行這個看診的一個勤務那收容人你用鉛子筆給他插他的臉啊勒那個警部去施暴\n205399\t226412\t那多處受傷那當然到最後送醫院去救治啦這個不是第一次收容人去攻擊醫護人員我相信也不會是最後一次聽到啦那當然我們都支持在監所的人這些收容我們提供他人道的醫療的一個服務可是呢\n227192\t240024\t這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人第一線的醫護人員基本的人身安全我相信部長你應該也特別有感也應該要受到制度上的一個保障那我特別要提出來就是說台東護理師公園他們也\n242335\t260173\t提了幾點訴求 我希望部長也來做一個回應啦 聽話有道理嗎你知道他們說 是否你們應該跟衛福部共同來檢討現行的一個矯正醫護制度的一個缺口你制定陸間醫療安全的一個指引 你設一個指引給他們啦針對醫護人員進出監所勤務 明確去規範安全措施跟風險的預警的一個程序\n265999\t283372\t不然我覺得合理這個應該要這樣做應該要做那第一點你回應的還有第二個就是說現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件醫院裡面院方當然他啟動啊他有針對心理輔導法律協助的一個機制這個人家醫院有啊那我們監鎖人家去哪裡找啊\n285573\t307832\t我們醫護人員受到這樣子的話我們法律上 心理上 但心理上不可能叫你監守要怕死 監守你是在輔導 輔導針對那個一些受刑人的那至少我們也可以跟衛福部來做一個討論那這一些醫療暴力通報跟應變處理機制來提供當事人的法律協助跟心理重建的一個資源不要給這些醫護喔\n310454\t336295\t獨自去承擔這樣的一個制度上的一個風險這個我覺得不知道柏定跟蘇定你們是不是可以做一個回應像那個一般的那個醫療處所我們現在檢察機關有建立一個連續的一個窗口那我們有對這些供給醫護人員有專注辦案那也有從眾的來求醒那當然我也有提到了這個的確在監所裡面的這些醫護到裡面的是不是一個\n337917\t350714\t這個缺口那這部分我也承諾就是說以後我們會跟衛福部來做一個聯繫來討論如何補足這個缺口我們做一個諮詢那有一個issue那剛才委員有提到就是那個這個醫護人員這部分\n353257\t375225\t供給這部分我們也就是會強化我們看診區的一個介乎的管理我們本身先檢討先來設置那另外這些供給的這些收容人這個收供給的這些這個收容人那我們也依規定來辦理違規的嚴懲那這部分台東地檢水分案來追究那個行政你幹嘛六月份看到那個\n376025\t385398\t三軍總院發生的醫療暴力的時候醫師團體 護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法要去加重 醫療法裡面去加重\n386550\t406806\t何況一般醫院都有這樣的一個要求到監獄裡面去的這個法務部我們更不應該視而不見那另外就是說以目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監的服務的時候你們契約內容幾乎沒有去保障跟執勤條件跟風險的一個配套所以這樣有道理我覺得你這個制度的漏洞\n411141\t425993\t重新再去做一個檢討你說檢討說對於矯正機關醫療服務的你們那個契約裡面的內容的部分可能一併的去請我們矯正署這個地方來去做一個盤點也呼應這個醫師公會這樣的一個訴求態度要出來\n430256\t453208\t是 包括我們監所對於那個入監的醫護人員的安全保障我們會依照全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業息之裡面的相關第九條的規定來協助現場安全的介護那包括委員有提到那個我們可是你們現在契約沒有啊\n454268\t475133\t我們會依照這個作業西施這個部分來再盤點一下這個是衛福部訂的作業西施我們會來做相關的配合辦理那委員有提到我們隔天典議長也有到台東基督教育院慰問那位護理師而且給他實質的關懷 慰問金那也跟\n475933\t492547\t台東基督教的院長做溝通所以我所知道的台東衛生局也有召開比如地檢署相關的醫院的一個會議來做相關因應的加強安全措施\n493247\t515855\t這個是我們腳證署應該要去做的啦因為你說醫療法的一個修法那個到底立法院這個地方有沒有辦法或者說你這個法務部會提出草案這目前我們知道嘛但至少我們現在能做的我們就盡量去做我最後一個問題要請教啦就是也是跟我們跟你書中有關的嘛最近司法法治委員會我們真的很用心\n516815\t539077\t我們一直在排考察都是在監獄我們對於這個整個考核的一個制度我相信署長其實雖然很快就要退休了對於整個雷勁廚藝這個部分你說廢掉到監獄行刑的部分去做一個規範這個是一個進步但是以現在我相信你也很清楚在監獄裡面\n540919\t561306\t受刑人他也有牽扯到一個地方所以我剛開宗明義就講說法務部是一個很特殊的機關又要去打擊犯罪打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧到這些受刑人但是制度就是這樣的一個設計可是你去看你目前在考核的話你說有日常的一個獎懲\n562566\t568749\t你每個月還要去評分他 有操信啊 教化啊 作業啊然後又變成有責任分數 犯的幾次啊 撤銷假釋的又不一樣適用的年份又不一樣 到最後到一個禁級我的意思就是說 我們現在很多輔導人員啊 署長你最清楚啊\n582403\t591586\t那搞不好大家都變喔 都在算數每天都在這樣算 都在這樣算分數而已啊所以對這個整個制度的一個變革你本來喔 每一個監獄的考核裡面喔大家都定辦法又不太一樣後來是你繳證署是統一讓整個高等行政法院去做一個判決以後要求你們累進廚藝的評分機制應該法務部繳證署去訂定一個制度好了 你們現在訂出來了\n611351\t630080\t可是我現在比較擔心的就是說,這個高度不確定性,監所裡面如何再繼續去強化那個透明度,跟那個社會的一個公信度,讓公信力要求每一年我們這個外部的一個視察,外部的監督的部分,是不是應該繼續再加強。\n632958\t650366\t我們所謂的階段處理新制會來代替這個傳統的所謂累進處理制度那主要是要簡化它的考核制度機制還有縮短刑期還有報假釋的相關的配套\n651286\t672977\t那以往我們是點數字現在我們類似日本所謂的變成考察字但是我們會唯一不同日本的考察字他是由管理員來負責考察所以他們的學者就提出說管理員的這個所謂的學養他的能力有沒有\n673797\t696150\t做到非常的公平公正的考核所以我們將來的所謂的考核不會說只給管理員來考核我們有一個類似教育小組有一個團體team來做嚴格嚴正的考核因為這個涉及到收容人的所謂的共同權益我們絕對要很慎重要公平公正\n696590\t705738\t我跟妳建議啦,因為時間也很少啦,這個問題其實在審法局委員會有幾位委員也都很深入啦我跟妳建議就是說,妳這一生的這樣功力,妳這樣好好地卸一下,卸一下這樣,給補充這樣\n712483\t714764\t還要跟他開發寶典讓我們整個矯正的整個這樣的一個業務啊可以讓他更制度化把那一些制度裡面原來目前的一個缺失的這一甲子的功力你也下一個去撈這樣整個在接下來的預證管理讓他可以啊\n733675\t761781\t更符合社會的一個期待不知道蘇丁你的看法如何道高委員我們的假釋科都非常的清楚而且我們是委託兩所大學去針對累進處理制度做相關的研討所以我想我們數不管是將來的配套將來的研修應該會很嚴謹而且很公平事正的去處理這一點請委員可以放心\n762541\t782268\t我當然會放心 可是問題就是說我們這個制度的一個改進真的是太慢為什麼呢 你像我們到北京去考察的時候另外一個受刑人裡面 有時候是訴罪病法 他犯了很多罪嘛剛第一個罪的時候 他確定判決是只有六個月而已啊六個月進去了以後呢 他十三次更刑啊\n783530\t789313\t然後檢察官那個指揮書裡面一共你們假證書一個監獄接到幾張?三十張!光算這個分數你就算到五張了你說對那個受刑人的情緒的一個波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的一個問題啦這些問題誰看得最清楚?你做書你給人家看得很清楚啦不要硬著啦,像那個港府稍微加一點好不好\n810575\t811056\t好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請法務部我們鄭部長還有 麻煩鄭部長 蔣正署我們周署長 周署長部長 署長 韋豪 韋豪來當一次公道伯來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法剛剛召委是在提到這個整個刑務訴訟法第98條訊問被告因出於懇切的態度他認為這個不是證據能力\n這個可能要修正一下我們在念書的時候 念法律系的98條一定是跟150條接著看任何人詢問完以後 那個當然是一個訓示規定可是如果是出於強暴脅迫 或者說詐欺甚至於不正的方法 那到最後都不得當證據部長講的就對了 那是一個證據能力的一個問題\n一併提出來 大家說參考那我今天特別要請教幾個問題就是說雖然署長要退休但是我也有幾個問題要做一個討論\n你像早有今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義高雄監獄也爆發了不當的一個管教失敗調查當中那我們再看這個台東太原監獄收容人戶歐的嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北京蔣城這些都產生了很大的一個爭議但是這個事後我看到我們矯正署都會發一些新聞稿懲處人員 矯正署\n其實應該被外界期待的是說我們有沒有去系統性的去盤點這些問題的根源這一些問題的發生我都認為這個其實只是冰山一角黑樹都還沒有出來了都很正常法務部是一個很特殊的一個機關我們的機關裡面\n社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪 宅監發服整個社會的秩序 治安都要加強去防範打擊犯罪可是我們底下只要是起訴了 法院判決了 定讞了以後\n又會回到我們法務部底下的矯正署這個是很衝突的一個命題 但沒辦法沒辦法 所以北京有些人 陶醉的人說這很可惡 這要怎麼做 要怎麼跟人家說要去破黨行 甚至要破私營如果我去跟人家說人權 人權 要注意 很衝突但是呢 這個世界各國皆然我們是特別想要問的就是說\n除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該去做一個檢討以外系統性的盤點以外最近台東\n台東 你看你們東城監獄這個地方這個讓人比較痛心的啦其實六月份醫療暴力就有好幾件了嘛三總那個地方也有那這一次是發生在我們東城監獄裡面那資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東城監獄執行這個看診的一個勤務那收容人你用鉛子筆給他插他的臉啊勒那個警部去施暴\n那多處受傷那當然到最後送醫院去救治啦這個不是第一次收容人去攻擊醫護人員我相信也不會是最後一次聽到啦那當然我們都支持在監所的人這些收容我們提供他人道的醫療的一個服務可是呢\n這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人第一線的醫護人員基本的人身安全我相信部長你應該也特別有感也應該要受到制度上的一個保障那我特別要提出來就是說台東護理師公園他們也\n提了幾點訴求 我希望部長也來做一個回應啦 聽話有道理嗎你知道他們說 是否你們應該跟衛福部共同來檢討現行的一個矯正醫護制度的一個缺口你制定陸間醫療安全的一個指引 你設一個指引給他們啦針對醫護人員進出監所勤務 明確去規範安全措施跟風險的預警的一個程序\n不然我覺得合理這個應該要這樣做應該要做那第一點你回應的還有第二個就是說現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件醫院裡面院方當然他啟動啊他有針對心理輔導法律協助的一個機制這個人家醫院有啊那我們監鎖人家去哪裡找啊\n我們醫護人員受到這樣子的話我們法律上 心理上 但心理上不可能叫你監守要怕死 監守你是在輔導 輔導針對那個一些受刑人的那至少我們也可以跟衛福部來做一個討論那這一些醫療暴力通報跟應變處理機制來提供當事人的法律協助跟心理重建的一個資源不要給這些醫護喔\n獨自去承擔這樣的一個制度上的一個風險這個我覺得不知道柏定跟蘇定你們是不是可以做一個回應像那個一般的那個醫療處所我們現在檢察機關有建立一個連續的一個窗口那我們有對這些供給醫護人員有專注辦案那也有從眾的來求醒那當然我也有提到了這個的確在監所裡面的這些醫護到裡面的是不是一個\n這個缺口那這部分我也承諾就是說以後我們會跟衛福部來做一個聯繫來討論如何補足這個缺口我們做一個諮詢那有一個issue那剛才委員有提到就是那個這個醫護人員這部分\n供給這部分我們也就是會強化我們看診區的一個介乎的管理我們本身先檢討先來設置那另外這些供給的這些收容人這個收供給的這些這個收容人那我們也依規定來辦理違規的嚴懲那這部分台東地檢水分案來追究那個行政你幹嘛六月份看到那個\n三軍總院發生的醫療暴力的時候醫師團體 護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法要去加重 醫療法裡面去加重\n何況一般醫院都有這樣的一個要求到監獄裡面去的這個法務部我們更不應該視而不見那另外就是說以目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監的服務的時候你們契約內容幾乎沒有去保障跟執勤條件跟風險的一個配套所以這樣有道理我覺得你這個制度的漏洞\n重新再去做一個檢討你說檢討說對於矯正機關醫療服務的你們那個契約裡面的內容的部分可能一併的去請我們矯正署這個地方來去做一個盤點也呼應這個醫師公會這樣的一個訴求態度要出來\n是 包括我們監所對於那個入監的醫護人員的安全保障我們會依照全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業息之裡面的相關第九條的規定來協助現場安全的介護那包括委員有提到那個我們可是你們現在契約沒有啊\n我們會依照這個作業西施這個部分來再盤點一下這個是衛福部訂的作業西施我們會來做相關的配合辦理那委員有提到我們隔天典議長也有到台東基督教育院慰問那位護理師而且給他實質的關懷 慰問金那也跟\n台東基督教的院長做溝通所以我所知道的台東衛生局也有召開比如地檢署相關的醫院的一個會議來做相關因應的加強安全措施\n這個是我們腳證署應該要去做的啦因為你說醫療法的一個修法那個到底立法院這個地方有沒有辦法或者說你這個法務部會提出草案這目前我們知道嘛但至少我們現在能做的我們就盡量去做我最後一個問題要請教啦就是也是跟我們跟你書中有關的嘛最近司法法治委員會我們真的很用心\n我們一直在排考察都是在監獄我們對於這個整個考核的一個制度我相信署長其實雖然很快就要退休了對於整個雷勁廚藝這個部分你說廢掉到監獄行刑的部分去做一個規範這個是一個進步但是以現在我相信你也很清楚在監獄裡面\n受刑人他也有牽扯到一個地方所以我剛開宗明義就講說法務部是一個很特殊的機關又要去打擊犯罪打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧到這些受刑人但是制度就是這樣的一個設計可是你去看你目前在考核的話你說有日常的一個獎懲\n你每個月還要去評分他 有操信啊 教化啊 作業啊然後又變成有責任分數 犯的幾次啊 撤銷假釋的又不一樣適用的年份又不一樣 到最後到一個禁級我的意思就是說 我們現在很多輔導人員啊 署長你最清楚啊\n那搞不好大家都變喔 都在算數每天都在這樣算 都在這樣算分數而已啊所以對這個整個制度的一個變革你本來喔 每一個監獄的考核裡面喔大家都定辦法又不太一樣後來是你繳證署是統一讓整個高等行政法院去做一個判決以後要求你們累進廚藝的評分機制應該法務部繳證署去訂定一個制度好了 你們現在訂出來了\n可是我現在比較擔心的就是說,這個高度不確定性,監所裡面如何再繼續去強化那個透明度,跟那個社會的一個公信度,讓公信力要求每一年我們這個外部的一個視察,外部的監督的部分,是不是應該繼續再加強。\n我們所謂的階段處理新制會來代替這個傳統的所謂累進處理制度那主要是要簡化它的考核制度機制還有縮短刑期還有報假釋的相關的配套\n那以往我們是點數字現在我們類似日本所謂的變成考察字但是我們會唯一不同日本的考察字他是由管理員來負責考察所以他們的學者就提出說管理員的這個所謂的學養他的能力有沒有\n做到非常的公平公正的考核所以我們將來的所謂的考核不會說只給管理員來考核我們有一個類似教育小組有一個團體team來做嚴格嚴正的考核因為這個涉及到收容人的所謂的共同權益我們絕對要很慎重要公平公正\n我跟妳建議啦,因為時間也很少啦,這個問題其實在審法局委員會有幾位委員也都很深入啦我跟妳建議就是說,妳這一生的這樣功力,妳這樣好好地卸一下,卸一下這樣,給補充這樣\n還要跟他開發寶典讓我們整個矯正的整個這樣的一個業務啊可以讓他更制度化把那一些制度裡面原來目前的一個缺失的這一甲子的功力你也下一個去撈這樣整個在接下來的預證管理讓他可以啊\n更符合社會的一個期待不知道蘇丁你的看法如何道高委員我們的假釋科都非常的清楚而且我們是委託兩所大學去針對累進處理制度做相關的研討所以我想我們數不管是將來的配套將來的研修應該會很嚴謹而且很公平事正的去處理這一點請委員可以放心\n我當然會放心 可是問題就是說我們這個制度的一個改進真的是太慢為什麼呢 你像我們到北京去考察的時候另外一個受刑人裡面 有時候是訴罪病法 他犯了很多罪嘛剛第一個罪的時候 他確定判決是只有六個月而已啊六個月進去了以後呢 他十三次更刑啊\n然後檢察官那個指揮書裡面一共你們假證書一個監獄接到幾張?三十張!光算這個分數你就算到五張了你說對那個受刑人的情緒的一個波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的一個問題啦這些問題誰看得最清楚?你做書你給人家看得很清楚啦不要硬著啦,像那個港府稍微加一點好不好\n好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.129 --> 00:14.612\n謝謝主席有請法務部我們鄭部長還有麻煩鄭部長蔣正署我們周署長周署長部長署長韋豪韋豪來當一次公道伯來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法剛剛召委是在提到這個整個刑務訴訟法第98條訊問被告因出於懇切的態度他認為這個不是證據能力\n\n00:37.604 --> 00:42.768\n這個可能要修正一下我們在念書的時候念法律系的98條一定是跟150條接著看任何人詢問完以後那個當然是一個訓示規定可是如果是出於強暴脅迫或者說詐欺甚至於不正的方法那到最後都不得當證據部長講的就對了那是一個證據能力的一個問題\n\n01:00.399 --> 01:03.886\n一併提出來大家說參考那我今天特別要請教幾個問題就是說雖然署長要退休但是我也有幾個問題要做一個討論\n\n01:13.171 --> 01:38.090\n你像早有今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義高雄監獄也爆發了不當的一個管教失敗調查當中那我們再看這個台東太原監獄收容人戶歐的嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北京蔣城這些都產生了很大的一個爭議但是這個事後我看到我們矯正署都會發一些新聞稿懲處人員矯正署\n\n01:42.560 --> 02:00.376\n其實應該被外界期待的是說我們有沒有去系統性的去盤點這些問題的根源這一些問題的發生我都認為這個其實只是冰山一角黑樹都還沒有出來了都很正常法務部是一個很特殊的一個機關我們的機關裡面\n\n02:03.639 --> 02:06.601\n社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪宅監發服整個社會的秩序治安都要加強去防範打擊犯罪可是我們底下只要是起訴了法院判決了定讞了以後\n\n02:26.591 --> 02:37.994\n又會回到我們法務部底下的矯正署這個是很衝突的一個命題但沒辦法沒辦法所以北京有些人陶醉的人說這很可惡這要怎麼做要怎麼跟人家說要去破黨行甚至要破私營如果我去跟人家說人權人權要注意很衝突但是呢這個世界各國皆然我們是特別想要問的就是說\n\n02:52.516 --> 02:58.069\n除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該去做一個檢討以外系統性的盤點以外最近台東\n\n02:59.397 --> 03:15.351\n台東你看你們東城監獄這個地方這個讓人比較痛心的啦其實六月份醫療暴力就有好幾件了嘛三總那個地方也有那這一次是發生在我們東城監獄裡面那資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東城監獄執行這個看診的一個勤務那收容人你用鉛子筆給他插他的臉啊勒那個警部去施暴\n\n03:25.399 --> 03:46.412\n那多處受傷那當然到最後送醫院去救治啦這個不是第一次收容人去攻擊醫護人員我相信也不會是最後一次聽到啦那當然我們都支持在監所的人這些收容我們提供他人道的醫療的一個服務可是呢\n\n03:47.192 --> 04:00.024\n這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人第一線的醫護人員基本的人身安全我相信部長你應該也特別有感也應該要受到制度上的一個保障那我特別要提出來就是說台東護理師公園他們也\n\n04:02.335 --> 04:20.173\n提了幾點訴求我希望部長也來做一個回應啦聽話有道理嗎你知道他們說是否你們應該跟衛福部共同來檢討現行的一個矯正醫護制度的一個缺口你制定陸間醫療安全的一個指引你設一個指引給他們啦針對醫護人員進出監所勤務明確去規範安全措施跟風險的預警的一個程序\n\n04:25.999 --> 04:43.372\n不然我覺得合理這個應該要這樣做應該要做那第一點你回應的還有第二個就是說現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件醫院裡面院方當然他啟動啊他有針對心理輔導法律協助的一個機制這個人家醫院有啊那我們監鎖人家去哪裡找啊\n\n04:45.573 --> 05:07.832\n我們醫護人員受到這樣子的話我們法律上心理上但心理上不可能叫你監守要怕死監守你是在輔導輔導針對那個一些受刑人的那至少我們也可以跟衛福部來做一個討論那這一些醫療暴力通報跟應變處理機制來提供當事人的法律協助跟心理重建的一個資源不要給這些醫護喔\n\n05:10.454 --> 05:36.295\n獨自去承擔這樣的一個制度上的一個風險這個我覺得不知道柏定跟蘇定你們是不是可以做一個回應像那個一般的那個醫療處所我們現在檢察機關有建立一個連續的一個窗口那我們有對這些供給醫護人員有專注辦案那也有從眾的來求醒那當然我也有提到了這個的確在監所裡面的這些醫護到裡面的是不是一個\n\n05:37.917 --> 05:50.714\n這個缺口那這部分我也承諾就是說以後我們會跟衛福部來做一個聯繫來討論如何補足這個缺口我們做一個諮詢那有一個issue那剛才委員有提到就是那個這個醫護人員這部分\n\n05:53.257 --> 06:15.225\n供給這部分我們也就是會強化我們看診區的一個介乎的管理我們本身先檢討先來設置那另外這些供給的這些收容人這個收供給的這些這個收容人那我們也依規定來辦理違規的嚴懲那這部分台東地檢水分案來追究那個行政你幹嘛六月份看到那個\n\n06:16.025 --> 06:25.398\n三軍總院發生的醫療暴力的時候醫師團體護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法要去加重醫療法裡面去加重\n\n06:26.550 --> 06:46.806\n何況一般醫院都有這樣的一個要求到監獄裡面去的這個法務部我們更不應該視而不見那另外就是說以目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監的服務的時候你們契約內容幾乎沒有去保障跟執勤條件跟風險的一個配套所以這樣有道理我覺得你這個制度的漏洞\n\n06:51.141 --> 07:05.993\n重新再去做一個檢討你說檢討說對於矯正機關醫療服務的你們那個契約裡面的內容的部分可能一併的去請我們矯正署這個地方來去做一個盤點也呼應這個醫師公會這樣的一個訴求態度要出來\n\n07:10.256 --> 07:33.208\n是包括我們監所對於那個入監的醫護人員的安全保障我們會依照全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業息之裡面的相關第九條的規定來協助現場安全的介護那包括委員有提到那個我們可是你們現在契約沒有啊\n\n07:34.268 --> 07:55.133\n我們會依照這個作業西施這個部分來再盤點一下這個是衛福部訂的作業西施我們會來做相關的配合辦理那委員有提到我們隔天典議長也有到台東基督教育院慰問那位護理師而且給他實質的關懷慰問金那也跟\n\n07:55.933 --> 08:12.547\n台東基督教的院長做溝通所以我所知道的台東衛生局也有召開比如地檢署相關的醫院的一個會議來做相關因應的加強安全措施\n\n08:13.247 --> 08:35.855\n這個是我們腳證署應該要去做的啦因為你說醫療法的一個修法那個到底立法院這個地方有沒有辦法或者說你這個法務部會提出草案這目前我們知道嘛但至少我們現在能做的我們就盡量去做我最後一個問題要請教啦就是也是跟我們跟你書中有關的嘛最近司法法治委員會我們真的很用心\n\n08:36.815 --> 08:59.077\n我們一直在排考察都是在監獄我們對於這個整個考核的一個制度我相信署長其實雖然很快就要退休了對於整個雷勁廚藝這個部分你說廢掉到監獄行刑的部分去做一個規範這個是一個進步但是以現在我相信你也很清楚在監獄裡面\n\n09:00.919 --> 09:21.306\n受刑人他也有牽扯到一個地方所以我剛開宗明義就講說法務部是一個很特殊的機關又要去打擊犯罪打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧到這些受刑人但是制度就是這樣的一個設計可是你去看你目前在考核的話你說有日常的一個獎懲\n\n09:22.566 --> 09:28.749\n你每個月還要去評分他有操信啊教化啊作業啊然後又變成有責任分數犯的幾次啊撤銷假釋的又不一樣適用的年份又不一樣到最後到一個禁級我的意思就是說我們現在很多輔導人員啊署長你最清楚啊\n\n09:42.403 --> 09:51.586\n那搞不好大家都變喔都在算數每天都在這樣算都在這樣算分數而已啊所以對這個整個制度的一個變革你本來喔每一個監獄的考核裡面喔大家都定辦法又不太一樣後來是你繳證署是統一讓整個高等行政法院去做一個判決以後要求你們累進廚藝的評分機制應該法務部繳證署去訂定一個制度好了你們現在訂出來了\n\n10:11.351 --> 10:30.080\n可是我現在比較擔心的就是說,這個高度不確定性,監所裡面如何再繼續去強化那個透明度,跟那個社會的一個公信度,讓公信力要求每一年我們這個外部的一個視察,外部的監督的部分,是不是應該繼續再加強。\n\n10:32.958 --> 10:50.366\n我們所謂的階段處理新制會來代替這個傳統的所謂累進處理制度那主要是要簡化它的考核制度機制還有縮短刑期還有報假釋的相關的配套\n\n10:51.286 --> 11:12.977\n那以往我們是點數字現在我們類似日本所謂的變成考察字但是我們會唯一不同日本的考察字他是由管理員來負責考察所以他們的學者就提出說管理員的這個所謂的學養他的能力有沒有\n\n11:13.797 --> 11:36.150\n做到非常的公平公正的考核所以我們將來的所謂的考核不會說只給管理員來考核我們有一個類似教育小組有一個團體team來做嚴格嚴正的考核因為這個涉及到收容人的所謂的共同權益我們絕對要很慎重要公平公正\n\n11:36.590 --> 11:45.738\n我跟妳建議啦,因為時間也很少啦,這個問題其實在審法局委員會有幾位委員也都很深入啦我跟妳建議就是說,妳這一生的這樣功力,妳這樣好好地卸一下,卸一下這樣,給補充這樣\n\n11:52.483 --> 11:54.764\n還要跟他開發寶典讓我們整個矯正的整個這樣的一個業務啊可以讓他更制度化把那一些制度裡面原來目前的一個缺失的這一甲子的功力你也下一個去撈這樣整個在接下來的預證管理讓他可以啊\n\n12:13.675 --> 12:41.781\n更符合社會的一個期待不知道蘇丁你的看法如何道高委員我們的假釋科都非常的清楚而且我們是委託兩所大學去針對累進處理制度做相關的研討所以我想我們數不管是將來的配套將來的研修應該會很嚴謹而且很公平事正的去處理這一點請委員可以放心\n\n12:42.541 --> 13:02.268\n我當然會放心可是問題就是說我們這個制度的一個改進真的是太慢為什麼呢你像我們到北京去考察的時候另外一個受刑人裡面有時候是訴罪病法他犯了很多罪嘛剛第一個罪的時候他確定判決是只有六個月而已啊六個月進去了以後呢他十三次更刑啊\n\n13:03.530 --> 13:09.313\n然後檢察官那個指揮書裡面一共你們假證書一個監獄接到幾張?三十張!光算這個分數你就算到五張了你說對那個受刑人的情緒的一個波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的一個問題啦這些問題誰看得最清楚?你做書你給人家看得很清楚啦不要硬著啦,像那個港府稍微加一點好不好\n\n13:30.575 --> 13:31.056\n好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.129,"end":14.612,"text":"謝謝主席 有請法務部我們鄭部長還有 麻煩鄭部長 蔣正署我們周署長 周署長部長 署長 韋豪 韋豪來當一次公道伯來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法剛剛召委是在提到這個整個刑務訴訟法第98條訊問被告因出於懇切的態度他認為這個不是證據能力"},{"start":37.604,"end":42.768,"text":"這個可能要修正一下我們在念書的時候 念法律系的98條一定是跟150條接著看任何人詢問完以後 那個當然是一個訓示規定可是如果是出於強暴脅迫 或者說詐欺甚至於不正的方法 那到最後都不得當證據部長講的就對了 那是一個證據能力的一個問題"},{"start":60.399,"end":63.886,"text":"一併提出來 大家說參考那我今天特別要請教幾個問題就是說雖然署長要退休但是我也有幾個問題要做一個討論"},{"start":73.171,"end":98.09,"text":"你像早有今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義高雄監獄也爆發了不當的一個管教失敗調查當中那我們再看這個台東太原監獄收容人戶歐的嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北京蔣城這些都產生了很大的一個爭議但是這個事後我看到我們矯正署都會發一些新聞稿懲處人員 矯正署"},{"start":102.56,"end":120.376,"text":"其實應該被外界期待的是說我們有沒有去系統性的去盤點這些問題的根源這一些問題的發生我都認為這個其實只是冰山一角黑樹都還沒有出來了都很正常法務部是一個很特殊的一個機關我們的機關裡面"},{"start":123.639,"end":126.601,"text":"社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪 宅監發服整個社會的秩序 治安都要加強去防範打擊犯罪可是我們底下只要是起訴了 法院判決了 定讞了以後"},{"start":146.591,"end":157.994,"text":"又會回到我們法務部底下的矯正署這個是很衝突的一個命題 但沒辦法沒辦法 所以北京有些人 陶醉的人說這很可惡 這要怎麼做 要怎麼跟人家說要去破黨行 甚至要破私營如果我去跟人家說人權 人權 要注意 很衝突但是呢 這個世界各國皆然我們是特別想要問的就是說"},{"start":172.516,"end":178.069,"text":"除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該去做一個檢討以外系統性的盤點以外最近台東"},{"start":179.397,"end":195.351,"text":"台東 你看你們東城監獄這個地方這個讓人比較痛心的啦其實六月份醫療暴力就有好幾件了嘛三總那個地方也有那這一次是發生在我們東城監獄裡面那資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東城監獄執行這個看診的一個勤務那收容人你用鉛子筆給他插他的臉啊勒那個警部去施暴"},{"start":205.399,"end":226.412,"text":"那多處受傷那當然到最後送醫院去救治啦這個不是第一次收容人去攻擊醫護人員我相信也不會是最後一次聽到啦那當然我們都支持在監所的人這些收容我們提供他人道的醫療的一個服務可是呢"},{"start":227.192,"end":240.024,"text":"這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人第一線的醫護人員基本的人身安全我相信部長你應該也特別有感也應該要受到制度上的一個保障那我特別要提出來就是說台東護理師公園他們也"},{"start":242.335,"end":260.173,"text":"提了幾點訴求 我希望部長也來做一個回應啦 聽話有道理嗎你知道他們說 是否你們應該跟衛福部共同來檢討現行的一個矯正醫護制度的一個缺口你制定陸間醫療安全的一個指引 你設一個指引給他們啦針對醫護人員進出監所勤務 明確去規範安全措施跟風險的預警的一個程序"},{"start":265.999,"end":283.372,"text":"不然我覺得合理這個應該要這樣做應該要做那第一點你回應的還有第二個就是說現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件醫院裡面院方當然他啟動啊他有針對心理輔導法律協助的一個機制這個人家醫院有啊那我們監鎖人家去哪裡找啊"},{"start":285.573,"end":307.832,"text":"我們醫護人員受到這樣子的話我們法律上 心理上 但心理上不可能叫你監守要怕死 監守你是在輔導 輔導針對那個一些受刑人的那至少我們也可以跟衛福部來做一個討論那這一些醫療暴力通報跟應變處理機制來提供當事人的法律協助跟心理重建的一個資源不要給這些醫護喔"},{"start":310.454,"end":336.295,"text":"獨自去承擔這樣的一個制度上的一個風險這個我覺得不知道柏定跟蘇定你們是不是可以做一個回應像那個一般的那個醫療處所我們現在檢察機關有建立一個連續的一個窗口那我們有對這些供給醫護人員有專注辦案那也有從眾的來求醒那當然我也有提到了這個的確在監所裡面的這些醫護到裡面的是不是一個"},{"start":337.917,"end":350.714,"text":"這個缺口那這部分我也承諾就是說以後我們會跟衛福部來做一個聯繫來討論如何補足這個缺口我們做一個諮詢那有一個issue那剛才委員有提到就是那個這個醫護人員這部分"},{"start":353.257,"end":375.225,"text":"供給這部分我們也就是會強化我們看診區的一個介乎的管理我們本身先檢討先來設置那另外這些供給的這些收容人這個收供給的這些這個收容人那我們也依規定來辦理違規的嚴懲那這部分台東地檢水分案來追究那個行政你幹嘛六月份看到那個"},{"start":376.025,"end":385.398,"text":"三軍總院發生的醫療暴力的時候醫師團體 護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法要去加重 醫療法裡面去加重"},{"start":386.55,"end":406.806,"text":"何況一般醫院都有這樣的一個要求到監獄裡面去的這個法務部我們更不應該視而不見那另外就是說以目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監的服務的時候你們契約內容幾乎沒有去保障跟執勤條件跟風險的一個配套所以這樣有道理我覺得你這個制度的漏洞"},{"start":411.141,"end":425.993,"text":"重新再去做一個檢討你說檢討說對於矯正機關醫療服務的你們那個契約裡面的內容的部分可能一併的去請我們矯正署這個地方來去做一個盤點也呼應這個醫師公會這樣的一個訴求態度要出來"},{"start":430.256,"end":453.208,"text":"是 包括我們監所對於那個入監的醫護人員的安全保障我們會依照全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業息之裡面的相關第九條的規定來協助現場安全的介護那包括委員有提到那個我們可是你們現在契約沒有啊"},{"start":454.268,"end":475.133,"text":"我們會依照這個作業西施這個部分來再盤點一下這個是衛福部訂的作業西施我們會來做相關的配合辦理那委員有提到我們隔天典議長也有到台東基督教育院慰問那位護理師而且給他實質的關懷 慰問金那也跟"},{"start":475.933,"end":492.547,"text":"台東基督教的院長做溝通所以我所知道的台東衛生局也有召開比如地檢署相關的醫院的一個會議來做相關因應的加強安全措施"},{"start":493.247,"end":515.855,"text":"這個是我們腳證署應該要去做的啦因為你說醫療法的一個修法那個到底立法院這個地方有沒有辦法或者說你這個法務部會提出草案這目前我們知道嘛但至少我們現在能做的我們就盡量去做我最後一個問題要請教啦就是也是跟我們跟你書中有關的嘛最近司法法治委員會我們真的很用心"},{"start":516.815,"end":539.077,"text":"我們一直在排考察都是在監獄我們對於這個整個考核的一個制度我相信署長其實雖然很快就要退休了對於整個雷勁廚藝這個部分你說廢掉到監獄行刑的部分去做一個規範這個是一個進步但是以現在我相信你也很清楚在監獄裡面"},{"start":540.919,"end":561.306,"text":"受刑人他也有牽扯到一個地方所以我剛開宗明義就講說法務部是一個很特殊的機關又要去打擊犯罪打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧到這些受刑人但是制度就是這樣的一個設計可是你去看你目前在考核的話你說有日常的一個獎懲"},{"start":562.566,"end":568.749,"text":"你每個月還要去評分他 有操信啊 教化啊 作業啊然後又變成有責任分數 犯的幾次啊 撤銷假釋的又不一樣適用的年份又不一樣 到最後到一個禁級我的意思就是說 我們現在很多輔導人員啊 署長你最清楚啊"},{"start":582.403,"end":591.586,"text":"那搞不好大家都變喔 都在算數每天都在這樣算 都在這樣算分數而已啊所以對這個整個制度的一個變革你本來喔 每一個監獄的考核裡面喔大家都定辦法又不太一樣後來是你繳證署是統一讓整個高等行政法院去做一個判決以後要求你們累進廚藝的評分機制應該法務部繳證署去訂定一個制度好了 你們現在訂出來了"},{"start":611.351,"end":630.08,"text":"可是我現在比較擔心的就是說,這個高度不確定性,監所裡面如何再繼續去強化那個透明度,跟那個社會的一個公信度,讓公信力要求每一年我們這個外部的一個視察,外部的監督的部分,是不是應該繼續再加強。"},{"start":632.958,"end":650.366,"text":"我們所謂的階段處理新制會來代替這個傳統的所謂累進處理制度那主要是要簡化它的考核制度機制還有縮短刑期還有報假釋的相關的配套"},{"start":651.286,"end":672.977,"text":"那以往我們是點數字現在我們類似日本所謂的變成考察字但是我們會唯一不同日本的考察字他是由管理員來負責考察所以他們的學者就提出說管理員的這個所謂的學養他的能力有沒有"},{"start":673.797,"end":696.15,"text":"做到非常的公平公正的考核所以我們將來的所謂的考核不會說只給管理員來考核我們有一個類似教育小組有一個團體team來做嚴格嚴正的考核因為這個涉及到收容人的所謂的共同權益我們絕對要很慎重要公平公正"},{"start":696.59,"end":705.738,"text":"我跟妳建議啦,因為時間也很少啦,這個問題其實在審法局委員會有幾位委員也都很深入啦我跟妳建議就是說,妳這一生的這樣功力,妳這樣好好地卸一下,卸一下這樣,給補充這樣"},{"start":712.483,"end":714.764,"text":"還要跟他開發寶典讓我們整個矯正的整個這樣的一個業務啊可以讓他更制度化把那一些制度裡面原來目前的一個缺失的這一甲子的功力你也下一個去撈這樣整個在接下來的預證管理讓他可以啊"},{"start":733.675,"end":761.781,"text":"更符合社會的一個期待不知道蘇丁你的看法如何道高委員我們的假釋科都非常的清楚而且我們是委託兩所大學去針對累進處理制度做相關的研討所以我想我們數不管是將來的配套將來的研修應該會很嚴謹而且很公平事正的去處理這一點請委員可以放心"},{"start":762.541,"end":782.268,"text":"我當然會放心 可是問題就是說我們這個制度的一個改進真的是太慢為什麼呢 你像我們到北京去考察的時候另外一個受刑人裡面 有時候是訴罪病法 他犯了很多罪嘛剛第一個罪的時候 他確定判決是只有六個月而已啊六個月進去了以後呢 他十三次更刑啊"},{"start":783.53,"end":789.313,"text":"然後檢察官那個指揮書裡面一共你們假證書一個監獄接到幾張?三十張!光算這個分數你就算到五張了你說對那個受刑人的情緒的一個波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的一個問題啦這些問題誰看得最清楚?你做書你給人家看得很清楚啦不要硬著啦,像那個港府稍微加一點好不好"},{"start":810.575,"end":811.056,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":679,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時33分）謝謝主席。有請法務部鄭部長……"],["主席：麻煩鄭部長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：還有矯正署周署長。"],["主席：請周署長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長、署長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好！"],["莊委員瑞雄：我又要來當一次公道伯了，來修正一下我們召委剛剛的講法。剛剛召委是提到刑事訴訟法第九十八條，訊問被告應出以懇切之態度等等，他認為這個不是證據能力。這個可能要修正一下，我們在念書的時候，念法律系的人都知道，第九十八條一定是跟第一百五十六條接著看，任何人訊問被告等等，那個當然是一個訓示規定，可是如果是出以強暴、脅迫，或者詐欺，甚至於不正的方法，那到最後都不得當證據。部長講的就對了，那是一個證據能力的問題，一併提出來供大家參考。","我今天特別要請教幾個問題，雖然署長要退休，但是我有一些問題也要和你討論，召委今天排這個專題我就覺得非常有意義。高雄監獄爆發了不當管教，司法也在調查當中、臺東泰源監獄收容人互毆、嘉義監獄管理員不當管教事件或北監獎懲的問題，這些都產生了很大的爭議，事後我看到矯正署都會發一些新聞稿說明懲處人員，但是外界期待矯正署的是，我們有沒有系統性去盤點這些問題的根源？這一些問題的發生，我都認為其實只是冰山一角，黑數都還沒有出來，都很正常，在我們的機關裡面法務部是一個很特殊的機關，社會大眾要求法務部底下的檢察官要打擊犯罪、摘奸發伏，整個社會的秩序、治安都要加強防範，可是我們只要起訴了，法院判決了、定讞了以後，又會回到法務部底下的矯正署，這個是很衝突的一個命題，但沒辦法。有時候在前面的時候，大家就會說這很可惡，要趕快把他抓來，要求要判重刑，甚至要判死刑，但是如果把人抓進去關了以後又要談要注意人權，這很衝突，但是這個世界各國皆然。","本席特別想要問的是，除了剛剛提到的那些問題我們應該檢討、系統性的盤點以外，最近有些讓人比較痛心的事件，其實6月份就發生好幾件醫療暴力，三總也有，這一次是發生在臺東東成監獄裡面，資深護理師隨著醫療團隊到東成監獄執行看診的勤務，收容人用原子筆戳他的臉、勒頸部施暴，造成護理師多處受傷，最後當然送醫院去救治。這個不是第一次有收容人去攻擊醫護人員，我相信也不會是最後一次聽到，當然我們都支持提供在監所的收容人人道的醫療服務，可是這個人道其實也不是只適用於收容人，第一線醫護人員基本的人身安全也應該要受到制度上的保障，我相信部長應該也特別有感。我特別要提出來，臺東護理師公會也提了幾點訴求，我希望部長也來回應，聽看看有沒有道理。他們說，你們是否應該跟衛福部共同檢討現行矯正醫護制度的缺口，制定「入監醫療安全指引」，並針對醫護人員進出監所勤務，明確規範安全措施跟風險預警程序？部長，我覺得這是合理的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個應該要這樣做。"],["莊委員瑞雄：應該要做，這是第一點你回應的。還有第二個，現在醫院裡面一旦發生這種攻擊事件，院方可以啟動心理輔導、法律協助的機制，這個醫院有，那監所呢？人家去幫忙你們，去幫忙之後醫護人員受到這樣子的對待，在法律上、心理上……在心理上不可能叫監所，監所是在輔導那些受刑人的，那至少我們也可以跟衛福部討論，建立「醫療暴力通報與應變處理機制」，提供當事人法律協助跟心理重建的資源，不要讓這些醫護獨自去承擔制度上的風險。對此部長跟署長是不是可以回應？"],["鄭部長銘謙：像一般的醫療處所，現在檢察機關有建立一個聯繫的窗口，對於這些攻擊醫護人員的情況我們有專組辦案，也會從重求刑。當然，委員提到醫護到監所裡面的部分是不是一個缺口，這部分我剛才也承諾以後我們會跟衛福部聯繫，討論如何補足這個缺口，並做一個指引讓大家有所依循。剛才委員有提到醫護人員被攻擊的事件，這部分我們會強化看診區戒護的管理，我們本身先檢討、先設置。另外，對於這些發起攻擊的收容人，我們也依規定辦理違規的嚴懲，這部分臺東地檢署也分案追究刑責。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你看嘛！6月份看到三軍總院發生醫療暴力的時候，醫師團體、護理團體就出來要求立法院要修法，要在醫療法裡面去加重，一般醫院都有這樣的要求，何況是到監獄裡面去的，法務部更不應該視而不見。","另外，目前醫療機構被要求外派醫護進監服務的時候，你們的契約內容幾乎沒有去保障其執勤條件跟風險的配套，這樣有道理嗎？我覺得你們對於這個制度的漏洞要重新再去檢討，有關矯正機關醫療服務的契約內容，可能一併請矯正署盤點，也呼應醫師公會的訴求，你們的態度要出來。"],["周署長輝煌：是，報告委員，我們監所對於入監的醫護人員的安全保障，我們會依照「全民健康保險提供矯正機關醫療服務作業須知」裡面第九條的相關規定，協助現場安全的戒護，包括委員有提到我們……"],["莊委員瑞雄：可是你們現在的契約沒有啊！"],["周署長輝煌：我們會依照這個作業須知來……"],["莊委員瑞雄：再盤點一下。"],["周署長輝煌：這個是衛福部定的作業須知，我們會配合辦理。委員有提到，隔天我們典獄長也有到臺東基督教醫院慰問那位護理師，而且給他實質的關懷慰問金，也跟臺東基督教醫院的院長溝通，所以據我所知，臺東縣衛生局也有邀集地檢署、醫院召開相關的會議，做相關加強安全措施的因應。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個是矯正署應該要去做的，因為醫療法的修法，到底立法院有沒有辦法，或者是法務部會不會提出草案，目前不知道，但至少我們現在能做的我們就儘量去做。","我最後要請教的一個問題也和署長有關，最近司法及法制委員會真的很用心，我們一直在排考察，都是去監獄，對於整個考核的制度，雖然署長很快就要退休了，但對於廢除累進處遇，到監獄行刑去規範的這個部分，這是一個進步，但是我相信你也很清楚，現在在監獄裡面的受刑人也有艱難的地方，所以我剛剛開宗明義就說，法務部是一個很特殊的機關，要去打擊犯罪，但打擊犯罪完以後又要去照顧這些受刑人，但是制度就是這樣設計。可是目前以你們的考核有日常的獎懲，每個月還要去評分，有操信、教化、作業，又有責任分數，犯了幾次、撤銷假釋的又不一樣、適用的年份又不一樣，到最後是進級。我的意思是，現在變成很多輔導人員到最後都在算數，每天都只有在那裡算分數而已，這個署長你最清楚，所以對於這整個制度的變革，而且本來每一個監獄的考核大家定的辦法又不太一樣，後來是矯正署統一了，高等行政法院做了一個判決以後，要求累進處遇的評分機制應由法務部矯正署去訂定一個制度。你們現在定出來了，可是我現在比較擔心的是，這個獎懲的高度不確定性，監所裡面如何再繼續去強化透明度跟社會的公信力，每一年外部視察、外部監督的部分是不是應該繼續再加強？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們的階段處遇新制會代替傳統的累進處遇制度，主要是要簡化它的考核機制、縮短刑期，還有報假釋的相關配套。以往我們是點數制，現在我們變成類似日本的考察制，但是我們有一點不同，日本的考察制是由管理員負責考察，所以他們的學者就提出，管理員的學養、能力有沒有做到非常公平、公正的考核。所以我們將來的考核不會只給管理員考核，我們有一個類似教輔小組，有一個團體、team做嚴格、嚴正的考核，因為這個涉及到收容人的共同權益，我們絕對要很慎重，要公平、公正。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我給你建議，因為時間也很少，這個問題其實在司法及法制委員會有幾位委員也都很深入，我給你建議，你用你一生的功力好好地寫一下，像是葵花寶典一樣送給部長，讓我們整個矯正業務能夠更制度化，把原來制度裡面的缺失，用你一甲子的功力寫一下，留給接下來的役政管理，讓它可以更符合社會的期待。署長的看法呢？我算對你不錯的啦！"],["周署長輝煌：是，報告委員，我們的假釋科都非常的清楚，而且我們是委託兩所大學，針對累進處遇制度做相關的研討，所以我們署不管是將來的配套或是將來的研修，都應該會很嚴謹，而且很公平、適正地處理，請委員可以放心。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我當然會放心，可是問題就是，這個制度的改進真的是太慢了，為什麼呢？像我們到北監去考察的時候，受刑人裡面，有時候是數罪併罰，他犯了很多罪，當第一個罪的時候，他確定判決是只有六個月而已，六個月進去了以後，他13次更刑，然後檢察官的指揮書裡面說，矯正署一個監獄接到幾張？30張！光是算這些分數就算到昏頭了，這對受刑人的情緒波動或者你們管理上都會產生很大的問題，這些問題誰看得最清楚？你做署長的人看得很清楚。不要「甕肚」了，把功夫稍微教一下，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：謝謝委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們現在先作一個會議議程的宣告：稍後在吳思瑤委員詢答完畢之後，休息5分鐘。","莊委員，你剛剛誤會我的意思了，我們剛剛在談的是訊問要出於懇切的態度，因為部長回答說是證據能力，我說我們現在不是在討論證據能力。"],["莊委員瑞雄：第九十八條跟證據能力是有關的啊！"],["主席：對，因為第九十八條嚴重的話，就會有第一百五十六條證據能力的問題……"],["莊委員瑞雄：他連證據都不……"],["主席：但是在還沒有嚴重，譬如說他沒有出於懇切態度，這是法務部長要管，其實我們在談論的是，還沒有到有證據能力的問題，而且證據能力也不是部長能夠談的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我是說我跟你修正，我是做公道伯，部長是沒有講錯的，不是我挺他，我是講你們兩個在闡述見解的時候產生誤解了。"],["主席：我了解，我剛剛不是說部長講錯，我的意思是，我不是在跟部長討論證據能力的問題，因為第九十八條是要到嚴重才有第一百五十六條的問題。我想這邊也有很多人會看，法律上面一個正確的論述也很重要。","下一位請羅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","黃國昌","王義川","陳培瑜","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","羅智強","吳思瑤","劉書彬","林國成","麥玉珍","陳昭姿","張啓楷","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","林倩綺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-06-16"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正\n監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括\n提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續併案審查（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具\n「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案、（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監\n察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委\n員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00006"}}}