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00:00:44,770\n好複密你好那今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生的監察院濫用公務車委員的公務車的這個問題那想請教的是副秘書長那目前貴院在處理三個監察委員跟一個秘書長這些部分那在自律的部分怎麼處理法\n\n3\n00:00:46,247 --> 00:01:06,205\n跟委員說明就是我們針對三位委員就是三位委員公務車使用的問題已經移到紀律委員會去什麼時候要開會那紀律委員會呢他在監察院的規定他不是一個定期會不是每個月開或是每一季開不是好所以現在還沒有時間表對不對還沒有\n\n4\n00:01:08,507 --> 00:01:31,608\n好這個問題非常重要因為之前我剛剛有聽到傅斌爽你在說的監察委員他自律的情況之下他就必須一個清廉正直對不對超出黨派這個清廉正直我們現在只看到他濫用公務車但是如果後面其實只是冰山一角後面一大串的時候應該要做調查尤其是作為一個浴室大夫這樣子很清廉的這樣的人\n\n5\n00:01:32,449 --> 00:02:01,351\n因此我們繼續往下看在一個沒有這樣的調查只是一個自律委員會的時候我們繼續往下看可是事實上過去的歷史當中有這種案例五院當中包括的是監察院往下看的時候監察院有陳鋒義的秘書長被彈劾行政院有兩個秘書長林錫山跟林義士都被彈劾了這些都是有跡可循的那這一部分我的意思是說有一些指示可以呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看\n\n6\n00:02:03,036 --> 00:02:17,256\n監察委員本身也會有可能彈劾的機會喔但是這部分我想要是說部分的是我們看到監察委員也是有被彈劾這個過去有歷史齁包括的是在民國86年我們看到的是有一個是蔡\n\n7\n00:02:19,058 --> 00:02:43,597\n在慶祝委員對在慶祝委員的時候他也是違法收取到賄賂這部分也是被彈劾了那我們繼續往下看的時候有這些例子當中包括的是我們看到的副院長李鴻鈞他提到的是因為涉及到檢調了被已經介入了所以這部分呢他就暫時停住可是他所引用的這個監察法的施行細則的27條當中其實不是這樣寫的啊\n\n8\n00:02:46,980 --> 00:03:07,385\n這可以看到27條寫的是什麼調查的案件呢如果呢在刑事偵查或審判當中不停止調查涉及到行政責任的時候因以犯罪成立與否為段看有沒有必要停止調查那這個地方的時候監察委員有二十幾個二十九位對不對扣掉的是正副院長之外然後另外有三個\n\n9\n00:03:09,878 --> 00:03:31,744\n目前的可能有這樣子但用之嫌的其實還有24位然後24位中間取出9位出來這部分我們沒有出現到一個高標準在叼求自己那請問的是副秘書長您在今天聽到的這樣很多關於監察院的一個資訊你有什麼看法如果你做一個幕僚的話現在最高級的幕僚你怎麼樣想要去對監察院的這些委員跟副院長說呢\n\n10\n00:03:35,021 --> 00:03:53,471\n這個跟我說明一下就是目前的狀況就是已經移到紀律委員會那監察院呢是依照憲法是29位監察委員包括院長跟副院長是那第六屆的監察院呢那因為有一位委員有一位是\n\n11\n00:03:54,031 --> 00:04:16,153\n人數是夠的嘛對不對沒有並沒有就任然後有一位已經九個人就可以成立一個委主持一個小組來去做這些事情了是然後那您再拖時間趕快說一下您的建議是什麼直接了當說一下要不要去請他們趕快去召開一個紀律委員會紀律委員會他會依照他的\n\n12\n00:04:16,573 --> 00:04:32,580\n案量跟他的委員的共同的時間因為有七位紀律委員然後會召開紀律委員會這是沒有問題這是紀律委員會但是調查不問題事實上也是可以再進行的再跟委員說明那紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件他可以收集相關的\n\n13\n00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:45,817\n資料他也可以推派或輪派委員調查這都是紀律委員會在處理這案件請你承諾是不是可以你作為一個資深的最高的幕僚你是不是要趕快敦促他們進行是還是不是\n\n14\n00:04:47,086 --> 00:05:02,685\n這跟我們說明這個是不管是監察案件或者是目前紀律委會處理的案件都是監察委員在獨立行使他的職責好在這個情況之下我們繼續往下看很快就結束在這邊我們看到的是\n\n15\n00:05:03,306 --> 00:05:25,522\n既然以這樣子一個正職青年要求自己的監察委員這個自律委員會的開放開設開舉行都這樣子的拖三拉四的部分難怪我們現在形容到今天在我們下一頁看的時候其他國家的部分在丹麥跟芬蘭他們沒有監察院但是他們有監察室可以在國會的部分呢在有特定條件之下可以讓監察國會的監察室去去職\n\n16\n00:05:29,105 --> 00:05:49,381\n當然我們看到其他國家部分呢這個部分根據監察院的這個報告裡面呢也看到說有不同的這個有立法委員立法機關去產生的當然也有部分是從行政所長去產生的但是如果看到這個情況的之下我們繼續往下看在看到的情況之下如果監察委員呢他自己本身出現廉政跟操守這麼多的問題的話他已經衝擊到了是監察人民對監察院的公信力的一個信心面\n\n17\n00:05:55,345 --> 00:06:11,804\n那法規面跟過程呢都過去歷史其實都有有跡可循齁完全可以去自清門戶當然你們要啟動你們的調查包括副院長要呈現出來說我們就繼續往這邊的因為高標準的情形嘛你們監察院確實一直在往拖延齁明明就轉移焦點所以呢\n\n18\n00:06:12,404 --> 00:06:23,508\n如果當我們台灣的做法是這個國會設計當中大部分偏偏成兩部分但是由於監察院也已經不是民意機關既然這樣子的一個設計當中你們沒辦法去發生真正好的功用的話呢就是就是把它廢除到監察院包括陳菊院長他自己說他是要變成說希望是末代院長\n\n19\n00:06:32,372 --> 00:06:50,233\n希望就是說這個地方我們民眾黨已經提到出來就是這個監察權就把它轉移到立法院去那這個立法院強化去監督才能真正變成是能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎的這個監察權的一個落實才能真正的去達到監督的效用好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12864\t14609\t有請監察院王富密署長\n23717\t44770\t好 複密你好那今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生的監察院濫用公務車委員的公務車的這個問題那想請教的是 副秘書長那目前貴院在處理三個監察委員跟一個秘書長這些部分那在自律的部分怎麼處理法\n46247\t66205\t跟委員說明就是我們針對三位委員就是三位委員公務車使用的問題已經移到紀律委員會去什麼時候要開會那紀律委員會呢他在監察院的規定他不是一個定期會不是每個月開或是每一季開不是好所以現在還沒有時間表對不對還沒有\n68507\t91608\t好 這個問題非常重要 因為之前我剛剛有聽到 傅斌爽你在說的監察委員他自律的情況之下 他就必須一個清廉正直對不對 超出黨派這個清廉正直 我們現在只看到他濫用公務車但是如果後面其實只是冰山一角 後面一大串的時候應該要做調查 尤其是作為一個浴室大夫 這樣子很清廉的這樣的人\n92449\t121351\t因此我們繼續往下看在一個沒有這樣的調查只是一個自律委員會的時候 我們繼續往下看可是事實上過去的歷史當中有這種案例五院當中包括的是監察院往下看的時候監察院有陳鋒義的秘書長被彈劾行政院有兩個秘書長林錫山跟林義士都被彈劾了這些都是有跡可循的那這一部分我的意思是說有一些指示可以呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看\n123036\t137256\t監察委員本身也會有可能彈劾的機會喔但是這部分我想要是說部分的是我們看到監察委員也是有被彈劾這個過去有歷史齁包括的是在民國86年我們看到的是有一個是蔡\n139058\t163597\t在慶祝委員對 在慶祝委員的時候他也是違法收取到賄賂這部分也是被彈劾了那我們繼續往下看的時候有這些例子當中包括的是我們看到的副院長李鴻鈞他提到的是因為涉及到檢調了 被已經介入了所以這部分呢 他就暫時停住可是他所引用的這個監察法的施行細則的27條當中其實不是這樣寫的啊\n166980\t187385\t這可以看到27條寫的是什麼調查的案件呢如果呢在刑事偵查或審判當中不停止調查涉及到行政責任的時候因以犯罪成立與否為段看有沒有必要停止調查那這個地方的時候監察委員有二十幾個二十九位對不對扣掉的是正副院長之外然後另外有三個\n189878\t211744\t目前的可能有這樣子但用之嫌的其實還有24位然後24位中間取出9位出來這部分我們沒有出現到一個高標準在叼求自己那請問的是副秘書長您在今天聽到的這樣很多關於監察院的一個資訊你有什麼看法如果你做一個幕僚的話現在最高級的幕僚你怎麼樣想要去對監察院的這些委員跟副院長說呢\n215021\t233471\t這個跟我說明一下就是目前的狀況就是已經移到紀律委員會那監察院呢是依照憲法是29位監察委員包括院長跟副院長是那第六屆的監察院呢那因為有一位委員有一位是\n234031\t256153\t人數是夠的嘛對不對沒有並沒有就任然後有一位已經九個人就可以成立一個委主持一個小組來去做這些事情了是然後那您再拖時間趕快說一下您的建議是什麼直接了當說一下要不要去請他們趕快去召開一個紀律委員會紀律委員會他會依照他的\n256573\t272580\t案量跟他的委員的共同的時間因為有七位紀律委員然後會召開紀律委員會這是沒有問題 這是紀律委員會但是調查不問題事實上也是可以再進行的再跟委員說明那紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件他可以收集相關的\n273340\t285817\t資料他也可以推派或輪派委員調查這都是紀律委員會在處理這案件請你承諾是不是可以你作為一個資深的最高的幕僚你是不是要趕快敦促他們進行是還是不是\n287086\t302685\t這跟我們說明 這個是不管是監察案件 或者是目前紀律委會處理的案件都是監察委員在獨立行使他的職責好 在這個情況之下 我們繼續往下看很快就結束 在這邊我們看到的是\n303306\t325522\t既然以這樣子一個正職青年要求自己的監察委員這個自律委員會的開放 開設 開舉行 都這樣子的拖三拉四的部分難怪我們現在形容到 今天在我們下一頁看的時候其他國家的部分 在丹麥跟芬蘭 他們沒有監察院 但是他們有監察室可以在國會的部分呢 在有特定條件之下可以讓監察 國會的監察室去去職\n329105\t349381\t當然我們看到其他國家部分呢這個部分根據監察院的這個報告裡面呢也看到說有不同的這個有立法委員立法機關去產生的當然也有部分是從行政所長去產生的但是如果看到這個情況的之下我們繼續往下看在看到的情況之下如果監察委員呢他自己本身出現廉政跟操守這麼多的問題的話他已經衝擊到了是監察人民對監察院的公信力的一個信心面\n355345\t371804\t那法規面跟過程呢都過去歷史其實都有有跡可循齁完全可以去自清門戶當然你們要啟動你們的調查包括副院長要呈現出來說我們就繼續往這邊的因為高標準的情形嘛你們監察院確實一直在往拖延齁明明就轉移焦點所以呢\n372404\t383508\t如果當我們台灣的做法是這個國會設計當中大部分偏偏成兩部分但是由於監察院也已經不是民意機關既然這樣子的一個設計當中你們沒辦法去發生真正好的功用的話呢就是就是把它廢除到監察院包括陳菊院長他自己說他是要變成說希望是末代院長\n392372\t410233\t希望就是說這個地方我們民眾黨已經提到出來就是這個監察權就把它轉移到立法院去那這個立法院強化去監督才能真正變成是能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎的這個監察權的一個落實才能真正的去達到監督的效用好 謝謝\n","txt":"有請監察院王富密署長\n好 複密你好那今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生的監察院濫用公務車委員的公務車的這個問題那想請教的是 副秘書長那目前貴院在處理三個監察委員跟一個秘書長這些部分那在自律的部分怎麼處理法\n跟委員說明就是我們針對三位委員就是三位委員公務車使用的問題已經移到紀律委員會去什麼時候要開會那紀律委員會呢他在監察院的規定他不是一個定期會不是每個月開或是每一季開不是好所以現在還沒有時間表對不對還沒有\n好 這個問題非常重要 因為之前我剛剛有聽到 傅斌爽你在說的監察委員他自律的情況之下 他就必須一個清廉正直對不對 超出黨派這個清廉正直 我們現在只看到他濫用公務車但是如果後面其實只是冰山一角 後面一大串的時候應該要做調查 尤其是作為一個浴室大夫 這樣子很清廉的這樣的人\n因此我們繼續往下看在一個沒有這樣的調查只是一個自律委員會的時候 我們繼續往下看可是事實上過去的歷史當中有這種案例五院當中包括的是監察院往下看的時候監察院有陳鋒義的秘書長被彈劾行政院有兩個秘書長林錫山跟林義士都被彈劾了這些都是有跡可循的那這一部分我的意思是說有一些指示可以呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看\n監察委員本身也會有可能彈劾的機會喔但是這部分我想要是說部分的是我們看到監察委員也是有被彈劾這個過去有歷史齁包括的是在民國86年我們看到的是有一個是蔡\n在慶祝委員對 在慶祝委員的時候他也是違法收取到賄賂這部分也是被彈劾了那我們繼續往下看的時候有這些例子當中包括的是我們看到的副院長李鴻鈞他提到的是因為涉及到檢調了 被已經介入了所以這部分呢 他就暫時停住可是他所引用的這個監察法的施行細則的27條當中其實不是這樣寫的啊\n這可以看到27條寫的是什麼調查的案件呢如果呢在刑事偵查或審判當中不停止調查涉及到行政責任的時候因以犯罪成立與否為段看有沒有必要停止調查那這個地方的時候監察委員有二十幾個二十九位對不對扣掉的是正副院長之外然後另外有三個\n目前的可能有這樣子但用之嫌的其實還有24位然後24位中間取出9位出來這部分我們沒有出現到一個高標準在叼求自己那請問的是副秘書長您在今天聽到的這樣很多關於監察院的一個資訊你有什麼看法如果你做一個幕僚的話現在最高級的幕僚你怎麼樣想要去對監察院的這些委員跟副院長說呢\n這個跟我說明一下就是目前的狀況就是已經移到紀律委員會那監察院呢是依照憲法是29位監察委員包括院長跟副院長是那第六屆的監察院呢那因為有一位委員有一位是\n人數是夠的嘛對不對沒有並沒有就任然後有一位已經九個人就可以成立一個委主持一個小組來去做這些事情了是然後那您再拖時間趕快說一下您的建議是什麼直接了當說一下要不要去請他們趕快去召開一個紀律委員會紀律委員會他會依照他的\n案量跟他的委員的共同的時間因為有七位紀律委員然後會召開紀律委員會這是沒有問題 這是紀律委員會但是調查不問題事實上也是可以再進行的再跟委員說明那紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件他可以收集相關的\n資料他也可以推派或輪派委員調查這都是紀律委員會在處理這案件請你承諾是不是可以你作為一個資深的最高的幕僚你是不是要趕快敦促他們進行是還是不是\n這跟我們說明 這個是不管是監察案件 或者是目前紀律委會處理的案件都是監察委員在獨立行使他的職責好 在這個情況之下 我們繼續往下看很快就結束 在這邊我們看到的是\n既然以這樣子一個正職青年要求自己的監察委員這個自律委員會的開放 開設 開舉行 都這樣子的拖三拉四的部分難怪我們現在形容到 今天在我們下一頁看的時候其他國家的部分 在丹麥跟芬蘭 他們沒有監察院 但是他們有監察室可以在國會的部分呢 在有特定條件之下可以讓監察 國會的監察室去去職\n當然我們看到其他國家部分呢這個部分根據監察院的這個報告裡面呢也看到說有不同的這個有立法委員立法機關去產生的當然也有部分是從行政所長去產生的但是如果看到這個情況的之下我們繼續往下看在看到的情況之下如果監察委員呢他自己本身出現廉政跟操守這麼多的問題的話他已經衝擊到了是監察人民對監察院的公信力的一個信心面\n那法規面跟過程呢都過去歷史其實都有有跡可循齁完全可以去自清門戶當然你們要啟動你們的調查包括副院長要呈現出來說我們就繼續往這邊的因為高標準的情形嘛你們監察院確實一直在往拖延齁明明就轉移焦點所以呢\n如果當我們台灣的做法是這個國會設計當中大部分偏偏成兩部分但是由於監察院也已經不是民意機關既然這樣子的一個設計當中你們沒辦法去發生真正好的功用的話呢就是就是把它廢除到監察院包括陳菊院長他自己說他是要變成說希望是末代院長\n希望就是說這個地方我們民眾黨已經提到出來就是這個監察權就把它轉移到立法院去那這個立法院強化去監督才能真正變成是能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎的這個監察權的一個落實才能真正的去達到監督的效用好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.864 --> 00:14.609\n有請監察院王富密署長\n\n00:23.717 --> 00:44.770\n好複密你好那今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生的監察院濫用公務車委員的公務車的這個問題那想請教的是副秘書長那目前貴院在處理三個監察委員跟一個秘書長這些部分那在自律的部分怎麼處理法\n\n00:46.247 --> 01:06.205\n跟委員說明就是我們針對三位委員就是三位委員公務車使用的問題已經移到紀律委員會去什麼時候要開會那紀律委員會呢他在監察院的規定他不是一個定期會不是每個月開或是每一季開不是好所以現在還沒有時間表對不對還沒有\n\n01:08.507 --> 01:31.608\n好這個問題非常重要因為之前我剛剛有聽到傅斌爽你在說的監察委員他自律的情況之下他就必須一個清廉正直對不對超出黨派這個清廉正直我們現在只看到他濫用公務車但是如果後面其實只是冰山一角後面一大串的時候應該要做調查尤其是作為一個浴室大夫這樣子很清廉的這樣的人\n\n01:32.449 --> 02:01.351\n因此我們繼續往下看在一個沒有這樣的調查只是一個自律委員會的時候我們繼續往下看可是事實上過去的歷史當中有這種案例五院當中包括的是監察院往下看的時候監察院有陳鋒義的秘書長被彈劾行政院有兩個秘書長林錫山跟林義士都被彈劾了這些都是有跡可循的那這一部分我的意思是說有一些指示可以呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看\n\n02:03.036 --> 02:17.256\n監察委員本身也會有可能彈劾的機會喔但是這部分我想要是說部分的是我們看到監察委員也是有被彈劾這個過去有歷史齁包括的是在民國86年我們看到的是有一個是蔡\n\n02:19.058 --> 02:43.597\n在慶祝委員對在慶祝委員的時候他也是違法收取到賄賂這部分也是被彈劾了那我們繼續往下看的時候有這些例子當中包括的是我們看到的副院長李鴻鈞他提到的是因為涉及到檢調了被已經介入了所以這部分呢他就暫時停住可是他所引用的這個監察法的施行細則的27條當中其實不是這樣寫的啊\n\n02:46.980 --> 03:07.385\n這可以看到27條寫的是什麼調查的案件呢如果呢在刑事偵查或審判當中不停止調查涉及到行政責任的時候因以犯罪成立與否為段看有沒有必要停止調查那這個地方的時候監察委員有二十幾個二十九位對不對扣掉的是正副院長之外然後另外有三個\n\n03:09.878 --> 03:31.744\n目前的可能有這樣子但用之嫌的其實還有24位然後24位中間取出9位出來這部分我們沒有出現到一個高標準在叼求自己那請問的是副秘書長您在今天聽到的這樣很多關於監察院的一個資訊你有什麼看法如果你做一個幕僚的話現在最高級的幕僚你怎麼樣想要去對監察院的這些委員跟副院長說呢\n\n03:35.021 --> 03:53.471\n這個跟我說明一下就是目前的狀況就是已經移到紀律委員會那監察院呢是依照憲法是29位監察委員包括院長跟副院長是那第六屆的監察院呢那因為有一位委員有一位是\n\n03:54.031 --> 04:16.153\n人數是夠的嘛對不對沒有並沒有就任然後有一位已經九個人就可以成立一個委主持一個小組來去做這些事情了是然後那您再拖時間趕快說一下您的建議是什麼直接了當說一下要不要去請他們趕快去召開一個紀律委員會紀律委員會他會依照他的\n\n04:16.573 --> 04:32.580\n案量跟他的委員的共同的時間因為有七位紀律委員然後會召開紀律委員會這是沒有問題這是紀律委員會但是調查不問題事實上也是可以再進行的再跟委員說明那紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件他可以收集相關的\n\n04:33.340 --> 04:45.817\n資料他也可以推派或輪派委員調查這都是紀律委員會在處理這案件請你承諾是不是可以你作為一個資深的最高的幕僚你是不是要趕快敦促他們進行是還是不是\n\n04:47.086 --> 05:02.685\n這跟我們說明這個是不管是監察案件或者是目前紀律委會處理的案件都是監察委員在獨立行使他的職責好在這個情況之下我們繼續往下看很快就結束在這邊我們看到的是\n\n05:03.306 --> 05:25.522\n既然以這樣子一個正職青年要求自己的監察委員這個自律委員會的開放開設開舉行都這樣子的拖三拉四的部分難怪我們現在形容到今天在我們下一頁看的時候其他國家的部分在丹麥跟芬蘭他們沒有監察院但是他們有監察室可以在國會的部分呢在有特定條件之下可以讓監察國會的監察室去去職\n\n05:29.105 --> 05:49.381\n當然我們看到其他國家部分呢這個部分根據監察院的這個報告裡面呢也看到說有不同的這個有立法委員立法機關去產生的當然也有部分是從行政所長去產生的但是如果看到這個情況的之下我們繼續往下看在看到的情況之下如果監察委員呢他自己本身出現廉政跟操守這麼多的問題的話他已經衝擊到了是監察人民對監察院的公信力的一個信心面\n\n05:55.345 --> 06:11.804\n那法規面跟過程呢都過去歷史其實都有有跡可循齁完全可以去自清門戶當然你們要啟動你們的調查包括副院長要呈現出來說我們就繼續往這邊的因為高標準的情形嘛你們監察院確實一直在往拖延齁明明就轉移焦點所以呢\n\n06:12.404 --> 06:23.508\n如果當我們台灣的做法是這個國會設計當中大部分偏偏成兩部分但是由於監察院也已經不是民意機關既然這樣子的一個設計當中你們沒辦法去發生真正好的功用的話呢就是就是把它廢除到監察院包括陳菊院長他自己說他是要變成說希望是末代院長\n\n06:32.372 --> 06:50.233\n希望就是說這個地方我們民眾黨已經提到出來就是這個監察權就把它轉移到立法院去那這個立法院強化去監督才能真正變成是能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎的這個監察權的一個落實才能真正的去達到監督的效用好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.864,"end":14.609,"text":"有請監察院王富密署長"},{"start":23.717,"end":44.77,"text":"好 複密你好那今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生的監察院濫用公務車委員的公務車的這個問題那想請教的是 副秘書長那目前貴院在處理三個監察委員跟一個秘書長這些部分那在自律的部分怎麼處理法"},{"start":46.247,"end":66.205,"text":"跟委員說明就是我們針對三位委員就是三位委員公務車使用的問題已經移到紀律委員會去什麼時候要開會那紀律委員會呢他在監察院的規定他不是一個定期會不是每個月開或是每一季開不是好所以現在還沒有時間表對不對還沒有"},{"start":68.507,"end":91.608,"text":"好 這個問題非常重要 因為之前我剛剛有聽到 傅斌爽你在說的監察委員他自律的情況之下 他就必須一個清廉正直對不對 超出黨派這個清廉正直 我們現在只看到他濫用公務車但是如果後面其實只是冰山一角 後面一大串的時候應該要做調查 尤其是作為一個浴室大夫 這樣子很清廉的這樣的人"},{"start":92.449,"end":121.351,"text":"因此我們繼續往下看在一個沒有這樣的調查只是一個自律委員會的時候 我們繼續往下看可是事實上過去的歷史當中有這種案例五院當中包括的是監察院往下看的時候監察院有陳鋒義的秘書長被彈劾行政院有兩個秘書長林錫山跟林義士都被彈劾了這些都是有跡可循的那這一部分我的意思是說有一些指示可以呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看"},{"start":123.036,"end":137.256,"text":"監察委員本身也會有可能彈劾的機會喔但是這部分我想要是說部分的是我們看到監察委員也是有被彈劾這個過去有歷史齁包括的是在民國86年我們看到的是有一個是蔡"},{"start":139.058,"end":163.597,"text":"在慶祝委員對 在慶祝委員的時候他也是違法收取到賄賂這部分也是被彈劾了那我們繼續往下看的時候有這些例子當中包括的是我們看到的副院長李鴻鈞他提到的是因為涉及到檢調了 被已經介入了所以這部分呢 他就暫時停住可是他所引用的這個監察法的施行細則的27條當中其實不是這樣寫的啊"},{"start":166.98,"end":187.385,"text":"這可以看到27條寫的是什麼調查的案件呢如果呢在刑事偵查或審判當中不停止調查涉及到行政責任的時候因以犯罪成立與否為段看有沒有必要停止調查那這個地方的時候監察委員有二十幾個二十九位對不對扣掉的是正副院長之外然後另外有三個"},{"start":189.878,"end":211.744,"text":"目前的可能有這樣子但用之嫌的其實還有24位然後24位中間取出9位出來這部分我們沒有出現到一個高標準在叼求自己那請問的是副秘書長您在今天聽到的這樣很多關於監察院的一個資訊你有什麼看法如果你做一個幕僚的話現在最高級的幕僚你怎麼樣想要去對監察院的這些委員跟副院長說呢"},{"start":215.021,"end":233.471,"text":"這個跟我說明一下就是目前的狀況就是已經移到紀律委員會那監察院呢是依照憲法是29位監察委員包括院長跟副院長是那第六屆的監察院呢那因為有一位委員有一位是"},{"start":234.031,"end":256.153,"text":"人數是夠的嘛對不對沒有並沒有就任然後有一位已經九個人就可以成立一個委主持一個小組來去做這些事情了是然後那您再拖時間趕快說一下您的建議是什麼直接了當說一下要不要去請他們趕快去召開一個紀律委員會紀律委員會他會依照他的"},{"start":256.573,"end":272.58,"text":"案量跟他的委員的共同的時間因為有七位紀律委員然後會召開紀律委員會這是沒有問題 這是紀律委員會但是調查不問題事實上也是可以再進行的再跟委員說明那紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件他可以收集相關的"},{"start":273.34,"end":285.817,"text":"資料他也可以推派或輪派委員調查這都是紀律委員會在處理這案件請你承諾是不是可以你作為一個資深的最高的幕僚你是不是要趕快敦促他們進行是還是不是"},{"start":287.086,"end":302.685,"text":"這跟我們說明 這個是不管是監察案件 或者是目前紀律委會處理的案件都是監察委員在獨立行使他的職責好 在這個情況之下 我們繼續往下看很快就結束 在這邊我們看到的是"},{"start":303.306,"end":325.522,"text":"既然以這樣子一個正職青年要求自己的監察委員這個自律委員會的開放 開設 開舉行 都這樣子的拖三拉四的部分難怪我們現在形容到 今天在我們下一頁看的時候其他國家的部分 在丹麥跟芬蘭 他們沒有監察院 但是他們有監察室可以在國會的部分呢 在有特定條件之下可以讓監察 國會的監察室去去職"},{"start":329.105,"end":349.381,"text":"當然我們看到其他國家部分呢這個部分根據監察院的這個報告裡面呢也看到說有不同的這個有立法委員立法機關去產生的當然也有部分是從行政所長去產生的但是如果看到這個情況的之下我們繼續往下看在看到的情況之下如果監察委員呢他自己本身出現廉政跟操守這麼多的問題的話他已經衝擊到了是監察人民對監察院的公信力的一個信心面"},{"start":355.345,"end":371.804,"text":"那法規面跟過程呢都過去歷史其實都有有跡可循齁完全可以去自清門戶當然你們要啟動你們的調查包括副院長要呈現出來說我們就繼續往這邊的因為高標準的情形嘛你們監察院確實一直在往拖延齁明明就轉移焦點所以呢"},{"start":372.404,"end":383.508,"text":"如果當我們台灣的做法是這個國會設計當中大部分偏偏成兩部分但是由於監察院也已經不是民意機關既然這樣子的一個設計當中你們沒辦法去發生真正好的功用的話呢就是就是把它廢除到監察院包括陳菊院長他自己說他是要變成說希望是末代院長"},{"start":392.372,"end":410.233,"text":"希望就是說這個地方我們民眾黨已經提到出來就是這個監察權就把它轉移到立法院去那這個立法院強化去監督才能真正變成是能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎的這個監察權的一個落實才能真正的去達到監督的效用好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":888,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（11時36分）有請監察院王副秘書長。"],["主席：請副秘。"],["王副秘書長增華：劉委員好。"],["劉委員書彬：副秘，你好。今天想要跟您請教的就是關於這一個多月以來發生監察院濫用公務車的問題。副秘書長，目前貴院針對這3位監察委員及1位秘書長的自律部分怎麼處理？"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明，我們針對3位委員公務車使用的問題已經移送到紀律委員會去了。"],["劉委員書彬：什麼時候要開會？"],["王副秘書長增華：按監察院的規定，紀律委員會不是一個定期會，不是每個月開會或是每一季開會。"],["劉委員書彬：所以現在還沒有時間表，對不對？"],["王副秘書長增華：還沒有。"],["劉委員書彬：這個問題非常重要。我剛剛聽到副秘書長說到，監察委員在自律的情況之下必須清廉正直、超出黨派，對不對？在清廉正直方面，我們現在只看到濫用公務車，但是如果這個只是冰山一角，後面還有一大串的時候，應該要調查，尤其是作為御史大夫這樣很清廉的人。因此，在只是透過紀律委員會處理的時候，事實上過去的歷史上五院當中有以下案例：監察院有陳豐義秘書長被彈劾、立法院有林錫山秘書長及行政院有林益世秘書長皆被彈劾，這些都是有跡可循、可以呈現出來的；此外，監察委員本身也可能有被彈劾的機會，過去有例可考，包括民國86年蔡慶祝委員因違法收取賄賂而被彈劾。","日前副院長李鴻鈞提到本案因為檢調已經介入了，所以只能暫時停住，可是他引用的監察法施行細則第二十七條其實不是這樣寫的，第二十七條第一項寫的是「調查案件被調查人之同一行為在刑事偵查或審判中者，不停止調查。但其行政責任應以犯罪成立與否為斷而認為有必要者得停止調查。」監察委員有二十幾個，29位，對不對？扣掉正副院長及目前有濫用之嫌的3位，其實還有24位，可以從中選出9位進行審查及決定，但監察院並沒有用高標準要求自己。請問副秘書長今天聽到很多關於監察院的質詢，您有什麼看法？作為目前最高級的幕僚，您想怎麼對監察院這些委員、副院長說呢？"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明一下，目前的狀況就是已經移送到紀律委員會，監察院依照憲法規定設置有29位監察委員，包括院長及副院長，第6屆監察院因為有1位委員……"],["劉委員書彬：人數是夠的，對不對？"],["王副秘書長增華：並沒有就任，有1位已經……"],["劉委員書彬：9個人就可以成立一個小組去做這些事情了。"],["王副秘書長增華：是，然後……"],["劉委員書彬：您在拖時間，趕快說一下，您的建議是什麼？直截了當說一下，要不要請他們趕快召開紀律委員會？"],["王副秘書長增華：紀律委員會會依照它的案量及委員共同的時間來召開，因為有7位紀律委員，他們會召開紀律委員會，這是沒有問題的。"],["劉委員書彬：這是紀律委員會，但是調查的部分事實上也是可以進行的。"],["王副秘書長增華：再跟委員說明，紀律委員會在處理相關的調查案件時可以蒐集相關的資料，也可以推派或輪派委員調查，這都是紀律委員會在處理各類案件的時候……"],["劉委員書彬：請您承諾，作為一個資深的最高幕僚，您是不是要趕快敦促他們進行？是還是不是？"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明，不管是監察……"],["劉委員書彬：您可能怠忽職守了。"],["王副秘書長增華：不管是監察案件或者是目前紀律委員會處理的案件，都是監察委員在獨立行使其職權。"],["劉委員書彬：好，在這個情況之下，以正直、清廉要求自己的監察委員，連紀律委員會的開會都這樣拖拖拉拉，難怪……我們來看其他國家，像丹麥和芬蘭雖然沒有監察院，但是他們有監察使，國會在特定條件之下，可以要求監察使去職；根據監察院的報告，其他國家的監察制度有些是全由立法機關產生，也有一部分是行政首長主導產生。","如果監察委員本身出現廉政及操守的問題，已經衝擊到人民對監察院公信力的信心，法規面在過去歷史其實都有跡可循，完全可以自清門戶。當然，你們要啟動內部的調查，包括副院長也表示要繼續往這方面處理，因為你們採取的是高標準，但是你們監察院卻一直在拖延，拚命轉移焦點。我們臺灣原本國會的設計分成兩部分，然而監察院已經不是民意機關，既然這樣的設計當中，你們沒辦法發揮真正的功能，就應該廢除掉監察院，包括陳菊院長也期許自己是末代院長。所以我們民眾黨主張將監察權轉移到立法院，以強化監督，如此才能夠打蒼蠅又打老虎，落實監察權，真正達到監督的效用，謝謝。"],["王副秘書長增華：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","黃國昌","王義川","陳培瑜","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","羅智強","吳思瑤","劉書彬","林國成","麥玉珍","陳昭姿","張啓楷","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","林倩綺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-06-16"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正\n監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括\n提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續併案審查（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具\n「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案、（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監\n察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委\n員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00006"}}}