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{\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 184.537, \"end\": 184.677, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 184.677, \"end\": 185.297, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 185.297, \"end\": 185.437, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 185.437, \"end\": 186.317, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"辯\"}, {\"word\": \"詞\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 186.317, \"end\": 186.438, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 186.438, \"end\": 186.618, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 186.618, \"end\": 186.798, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 186.798, \"end\": 187.238, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 187.238, \"end\": 188.018, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 188.018, \"end\": 188.158, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 188.158, \"end\": 188.258, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 188.258, \"end\": 188.599, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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\"start\": 197.903, \"end\": 198.083, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 198.083, \"end\": 198.844, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 198.844, \"end\": 199.564, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 199.564, \"end\": 200.124, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"誘\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 200.124, \"end\": 200.265, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 200.265, \"end\": 200.445, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 200.445, \"end\": 200.545, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 200.545, \"end\": 200.625, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 200.625, \"end\": 200.965, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 200.965, \"end\": 201.125, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 201.125, \"end\": 201.305, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 201.305, \"end\": 201.385, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 201.385, \"end\": 201.585, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 201.585, \"end\": 201.965, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 201.965, \"end\": 202.045, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 202.045, \"end\": 202.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"誘\"}]}, {\"start\": 203.386, \"end\": 220.482, \"text\": \"那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 203.386, \"end\": 203.546, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 203.546, \"end\": 203.586, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 203.586, \"end\": 203.747, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 203.747, \"end\": 204.087, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": 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507.726, \"end\": 507.746, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,599 --> 00:00:07,540\n謝謝主席有請部長麻煩部長找上皇國參委員吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞選委員都有詢問到就是跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範那這邊我要請教部長對於法務部來說檢察官的倫理規範第13條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢\n\n2\n00:00:30,788 --> 00:00:48,259\n這條說檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度對被告或證人詢問時不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法也就是不能有不正詢問那檢察官也不能用笑虐、怒罵或歧視情形請問法務部要如何避免這條規範淪為巨文呢請部長說明\n\n3\n00:00:52,749 --> 00:01:07,638\n那個開庭的態度法務部都非常的重視那目前的做法事實上我們有再去做一個抽查那抽查那這部分如果有發現這個情形我們也會勸導就是說我們要注意那個開庭的態度部長請問你會認為摯愛難行嗎\n\n4\n00:01:10,474 --> 00:01:30,413\n這個本來就一直在督導在做所以不會至愛難行那本來就是在做啦那一直在做那為什麼又出現了不小重大的冤案呢那些冤案是怎麼來的呢怎麼有冤案呢不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案啊證信譽如證信者啊或是蕭明月啊那個起訴了那自然有法院獨立的一個審判嘛那如果說對這些\n\n5\n00:01:31,874 --> 00:01:42,620\n開庭的態度是不是會有影響到這個證據能力的問題一百刑訴書法一百五十六證據能力的問題那這部分他可以在開庭的時候我現在在談一個倫理規範就是怎麼樣讓這個原案司法的尊嚴公正人權不要受阻原案跟那個證人保護法第三十四條這個原案應該是屬於證據證據的請尊重我的執行權第三\n\n6\n00:01:57,029 --> 00:02:12,208\n證人保護法第四條第一二三項規定看無條件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查過程中如果提供或公訴也就是他的自白證詞其他被告的犯罪事實那可以讓檢察官可以追溯其他的被告這個人就可以變成污點證人\n\n7\n00:02:13,610 --> 00:02:25,259\n那他也可以請法官對他做出這些他本身做不起訴處分那也請法官可以減輕或免除其刑部長請問我對這條條文的解讀正確嗎?政治正確嗎?這個是法律的規定那轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或是真的可以減輕甚至免除他的刑責那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利?\n\n8\n00:02:38,510 --> 00:02:49,817\n是不是很有力這個法律上對鼓勵共犯的一個自白是不是很有力嘛這個是優惠的一個規定鼓勵一個自白可以減輕或免出去\n\n9\n00:02:55,692 --> 00:03:22,065\n所以當這個刑訴法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正詢問時原本是從被告轉為污點證人的自白辯詞你要如何證明他是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白是沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響所做的罪據真實性的檢察官要有責任去保障對嗎?我這樣說對嗎?這個利誘就是出於一個不法的一個行為的利誘\n\n10\n00:03:23,386 --> 00:03:40,482\n那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛\n\n11\n00:03:48,769 --> 00:04:05,520\n我國刑事制度追訴是禁止檢查官利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由這個所謂的利用就前提是違反法律規定的一個利用而不是說這個原則你同意嗎不得利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由去利用他這個我看這個書上有一些的一個界定了嘛\n\n12\n00:04:10,943 --> 00:04:18,307\n如果說告訴他你轉入污點證人這是一個合法的行為這是證人保護法規定的剛才委員不是有講得很清楚嗎你沒有針對我的問題我國的證人保護法針對檢察官應該要確保保障被告的自白證人要有認立性跟真實性那如果說證人有違證的話他就用違證罪來處罰嗎那既然如此我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權利的工具\n\n13\n00:04:36,938 --> 00:04:44,327\n這件事就非常重要因為你沒有規定嘛你要怎麼避免我問你這不重要嘛怎麼要避免這不重要嘛董事長你聽不懂嗎我是問你如何避免他污點證成為檢察官濫用國家權的工具你同意嗎這個非常重要啊如何避免\n\n14\n00:04:56,221 --> 00:04:59,004\n本來就是要檢察官本來就是要依照目前的刑訴法依法偵辦嘛檢察官徵詢過程必須要全程錄音錄影也就是說當未來當未來有出現對自白政治有任意性真實性有爭執的時候或是認為有不正詢問的時候\n\n15\n00:05:13,519 --> 00:05:34,210\n這個時候就可以作為證明之用啊也就是說檢察官徵訊每一個被告證人的徵訊光碟內容到底如何就是用來檢視污點證人自白證詞是否有真實是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具對不對他本來就是有對證有規定如果有證詞的話在審理中的話可以提出嘛提出\n\n16\n00:05:34,730 --> 00:05:39,633\n部長我是問你原則問題你的態度問題這個本來我們就是依法來處理嘛依法處理這個本來就是依法而且委員你關心的就是100條之一的請問被告人權負隱在康恩決案裡面我們最近看到台北地檢署在審判過程中對面對被告審慶敬質疑污點證人問主席阿虎我跟你講不要去在那邊提個案你這個個案的問題你應該在審理說的案件你應該到法庭去主張\n\n17\n00:06:00,145 --> 00:06:01,726\n他提出北檢說我在問你原則問題北檢說為了訴訟經濟所以反對我來談這個問題訴訟經濟所以反對偵訊這個看驗偵訊光碟北檢在怕什麼\n\n18\n00:06:17,174 --> 00:06:23,416\n什麼叫訴訟經濟?面對質疑不就是把這個證訊觀點讓法院來勘驗嗎?認真的反駁被告的質疑怎麼法院官說起來不敢勘驗呢?把被檢查判審判長、審判長來決定的有法院來決定的你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官,沒有在問你個案問題如果你去檢查的話,面對不正訊問的質疑最好的方式不就是公開證訊觀點嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:44,181 --> 00:06:50,805\n讓法院來看驗嗎?這個是法院的職權,那個可以在法院上去主張現任大法官劉伯祥說過,偵查室內什麼事都可以發生所以全程錄音錄影是必要的現在就有在實施,現在全程錄音錄影本來就是在實施的羅秉成,前發言人,他有說公開偵訊有和不可\n\n20\n00:07:04,074 --> 00:07:09,819\n你如果一直回避問題,你是不是鼓勵按照法律的規定來處理?你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訓問呢?我沒有什麼訴訟經濟,我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指啦但是檢查在執行職務,那本來就是依法律來規定來處理如果說委員你有關係,有一些認為依託法律的這些問題那個所得的證據,那個在法庭上是可以主張嘛\n\n21\n00:07:28,370 --> 00:07:32,113\n今天我們是要你公開的一個態度跟立場講清楚真訊觀點就是為了後來的問題一出現的時候先把它全程錄音錄影到有職業的時候拿出來勘驗連勘驗都不行嗎那你做事檢察官說訴訟經濟\n\n22\n00:07:51,588 --> 00:08:03,353\n訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎你現在從談到這些全部說是個案裡面的法庭的官房以及證據的一些的要不要勘驗都有問題你所管轄檢察官用這樣的理由那我問你啊假設你自己當過檢察官啊你連面對我的倫理規範你都不敢講啊我沒什麼不敢講啊倫理規範啊就是有質疑啊不准人民有質疑嗎我沒有什麼不能質疑啊\n\n23\n00:08:15,212 --> 00:08:27,746\n菁姐說妳的態度是什麼徵訊光田請允許公開開業讓台灣的司法維持尊嚴公正跟基本的人權保障要依照法律的規定啦好謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4599\t7540\t謝謝主席 有請部長麻煩部長找上皇國參委員 吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞選委員都有詢問到就是跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範那這邊我要請教部長對於法務部來說檢察官的倫理規範第13條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢\n30788\t48259\t這條說檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度對被告或證人詢問時不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法也就是不能有不正詢問那檢察官也不能用笑虐、怒罵或歧視情形請問法務部要如何避免這條規範淪為巨文呢請部長說明\n52749\t67638\t那個開庭的態度法務部都非常的重視那目前的做法事實上我們有再去做一個抽查那抽查那這部分如果有發現這個情形我們也會勸導就是說我們要注意那個開庭的態度部長請問你會認為摯愛難行嗎\n70474\t90413\t這個本來就一直在督導在做所以不會至愛難行那本來就是在做啦那一直在做那為什麼又出現了不小重大的冤案呢那些冤案是怎麼來的呢怎麼有冤案呢不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案啊證信譽如證信者啊或是蕭明月啊那個起訴了那自然有法院獨立的一個審判嘛那如果說對這些\n91874\t102620\t開庭的態度是不是會有影響到這個證據能力的問題一百刑訴書法一百五十六證據能力的問題那這部分他可以在開庭的時候我現在在談一個倫理規範就是怎麼樣讓這個原案司法的尊嚴公正人權不要受阻原案跟那個證人保護法第三十四條這個原案應該是屬於證據證據的請尊重我的執行權第三\n117029\t132208\t證人保護法第四條第一二三項規定看無條件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查過程中如果提供或公訴也就是他的自白證詞其他被告的犯罪事實那可以讓檢察官可以追溯其他的被告這個人就可以變成污點證人\n133610\t145259\t那他也可以請法官對他做出這些他本身做不起訴處分那也請法官可以減輕或免除其刑部長請問我對這條條文的解讀正確嗎?政治正確嗎?這個是法律的規定那轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或是真的可以減輕甚至免除他的刑責那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利?\n158510\t169817\t是不是很有力這個法律上對鼓勵共犯的一個自白是不是很有力嘛這個是優惠的一個規定鼓勵一個自白可以減輕或免出去\n175692\t202065\t所以當這個刑訴法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正詢問時原本是從被告轉為污點證人的自白辯詞你要如何證明他是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白是沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響所做的罪據真實性的檢察官要有責任去保障對嗎?我這樣說對嗎?這個利誘就是出於一個不法的一個行為的利誘\n203386\t220482\t那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛\n228769\t245520\t我國刑事制度追訴是禁止檢查官利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由這個所謂的利用就前提是違反法律規定的一個利用而不是說這個原則你同意嗎 不得利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由去利用他這個我看這個書上有一些的一個界定了嘛\n250943\t258307\t如果說告訴他 你轉入污點證人 這是一個合法的行為這是證人保護法規定的 剛才委員不是有講得很清楚嗎你沒有針對我的問題我國的證人保護法 針對檢察官 應該要確保保障被告的自白證人要有認立性跟真實性那如果說證人有違證的話 他就用違證罪來處罰嗎那既然如此 我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權利的工具\n276938\t284327\t這件事就非常重要因為你沒有規定嘛你要怎麼避免我問你這不重要嘛怎麼要避免這不重要嘛董事長你聽不懂嗎我是問你如何避免他污點證成為檢察官濫用國家權的工具你同意嗎這個非常重要啊如何避免\n296221\t299004\t本來就是要 檢察官本來就是要依照目前的刑訴法 依法偵辦嘛檢察官徵詢過程必須要全程錄音 錄影也就是說當未來當未來有出現對自白政治有任意性 真實性有爭執的時候或是認為有不正詢問的時候\n313519\t334210\t這個時候就可以作為證明之用啊也就是說檢察官徵訊每一個被告證人的徵訊光碟內容到底如何就是用來檢視污點證人自白證詞是否有真實是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具對不對他本來就是有對證有規定如果有證詞的話在審理中的話可以提出嘛提出\n334730\t339633\t部長我是問你原則問題 你的態度問題這個本來我們就是依法來處理嘛 依法處理這個本來就是依法 而且委員你關心的就是100條之一的請問被告人權負隱在康恩決案裡面我們最近看到台北地檢署在審判過程中對面對被告審慶敬質疑污點證人問主席阿虎 我跟你講不要去在那邊提個案你這個個案的問題你應該在審理說的案件你應該到法庭去主張\n360145\t361726\t他提出北檢說 我在問你原則問題北檢說為了訴訟經濟所以反對我來談這個問題訴訟經濟所以反對偵訊這個看驗偵訊光碟北檢在怕什麼\n377174\t383416\t什麼叫訴訟經濟?面對質疑不就是把這個證訊觀點讓法院來勘驗嗎?認真的反駁被告的質疑怎麼法院官說起來不敢勘驗呢?把被檢查判審判長、審判長來決定的有法院來決定的你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官,沒有在問你個案問題如果你去檢查的話,面對不正訊問的質疑最好的方式不就是公開證訊觀點嗎?\n404181\t410805\t讓法院來看驗嗎?這個是法院的職權,那個可以在法院上去主張現任大法官劉伯祥說過,偵查室內什麼事都可以發生所以全程錄音錄影是必要的現在就有在實施,現在全程錄音錄影本來就是在實施的羅秉成,前發言人,他有說公開偵訊有和不可\n424074\t429819\t你如果一直回避問題,你是不是鼓勵按照法律的規定來處理?你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訓問呢?我沒有什麼訴訟經濟,我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指啦但是檢查在執行職務,那本來就是依法律來規定來處理如果說委員你有關係,有一些認為依託法律的這些問題那個所得的證據,那個在法庭上是可以主張嘛\n448370\t452113\t今天我們是要你公開的一個態度跟立場講清楚真訊觀點就是為了後來的問題一出現的時候先把它全程錄音錄影到有職業的時候拿出來勘驗連勘驗都不行嗎那你做事檢察官說訴訟經濟\n471588\t483353\t訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎你現在從談到這些全部說是個案裡面的法庭的官房以及證據的一些的要不要勘驗都有問題你所管轄檢察官用這樣的理由那我問你啊假設你自己當過檢察官啊你連面對我的倫理規範你都不敢講啊我沒什麼不敢講啊倫理規範啊就是有質疑啊不准人民有質疑嗎我沒有什麼不能質疑啊\n495212\t507746\t菁姐說妳的態度是什麼 徵訊光田請允許公開開業讓台灣的司法維持尊嚴公正跟基本的人權保障要依照法律的規定啦好 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長麻煩部長找上皇國參委員 吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞選委員都有詢問到就是跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範那這邊我要請教部長對於法務部來說檢察官的倫理規範第13條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢\n這條說檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度對被告或證人詢問時不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法也就是不能有不正詢問那檢察官也不能用笑虐、怒罵或歧視情形請問法務部要如何避免這條規範淪為巨文呢請部長說明\n那個開庭的態度法務部都非常的重視那目前的做法事實上我們有再去做一個抽查那抽查那這部分如果有發現這個情形我們也會勸導就是說我們要注意那個開庭的態度部長請問你會認為摯愛難行嗎\n這個本來就一直在督導在做所以不會至愛難行那本來就是在做啦那一直在做那為什麼又出現了不小重大的冤案呢那些冤案是怎麼來的呢怎麼有冤案呢不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案啊證信譽如證信者啊或是蕭明月啊那個起訴了那自然有法院獨立的一個審判嘛那如果說對這些\n開庭的態度是不是會有影響到這個證據能力的問題一百刑訴書法一百五十六證據能力的問題那這部分他可以在開庭的時候我現在在談一個倫理規範就是怎麼樣讓這個原案司法的尊嚴公正人權不要受阻原案跟那個證人保護法第三十四條這個原案應該是屬於證據證據的請尊重我的執行權第三\n證人保護法第四條第一二三項規定看無條件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查過程中如果提供或公訴也就是他的自白證詞其他被告的犯罪事實那可以讓檢察官可以追溯其他的被告這個人就可以變成污點證人\n那他也可以請法官對他做出這些他本身做不起訴處分那也請法官可以減輕或免除其刑部長請問我對這條條文的解讀正確嗎?政治正確嗎?這個是法律的規定那轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或是真的可以減輕甚至免除他的刑責那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利?\n是不是很有力這個法律上對鼓勵共犯的一個自白是不是很有力嘛這個是優惠的一個規定鼓勵一個自白可以減輕或免出去\n所以當這個刑訴法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正詢問時原本是從被告轉為污點證人的自白辯詞你要如何證明他是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白是沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響所做的罪據真實性的檢察官要有責任去保障對嗎?我這樣說對嗎?這個利誘就是出於一個不法的一個行為的利誘\n那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛\n我國刑事制度追訴是禁止檢查官利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由這個所謂的利用就前提是違反法律規定的一個利用而不是說這個原則你同意嗎 不得利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由去利用他這個我看這個書上有一些的一個界定了嘛\n如果說告訴他 你轉入污點證人 這是一個合法的行為這是證人保護法規定的 剛才委員不是有講得很清楚嗎你沒有針對我的問題我國的證人保護法 針對檢察官 應該要確保保障被告的自白證人要有認立性跟真實性那如果說證人有違證的話 他就用違證罪來處罰嗎那既然如此 我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權利的工具\n這件事就非常重要因為你沒有規定嘛你要怎麼避免我問你這不重要嘛怎麼要避免這不重要嘛董事長你聽不懂嗎我是問你如何避免他污點證成為檢察官濫用國家權的工具你同意嗎這個非常重要啊如何避免\n本來就是要 檢察官本來就是要依照目前的刑訴法 依法偵辦嘛檢察官徵詢過程必須要全程錄音 錄影也就是說當未來當未來有出現對自白政治有任意性 真實性有爭執的時候或是認為有不正詢問的時候\n這個時候就可以作為證明之用啊也就是說檢察官徵訊每一個被告證人的徵訊光碟內容到底如何就是用來檢視污點證人自白證詞是否有真實是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具對不對他本來就是有對證有規定如果有證詞的話在審理中的話可以提出嘛提出\n部長我是問你原則問題 你的態度問題這個本來我們就是依法來處理嘛 依法處理這個本來就是依法 而且委員你關心的就是100條之一的請問被告人權負隱在康恩決案裡面我們最近看到台北地檢署在審判過程中對面對被告審慶敬質疑污點證人問主席阿虎 我跟你講不要去在那邊提個案你這個個案的問題你應該在審理說的案件你應該到法庭去主張\n他提出北檢說 我在問你原則問題北檢說為了訴訟經濟所以反對我來談這個問題訴訟經濟所以反對偵訊這個看驗偵訊光碟北檢在怕什麼\n什麼叫訴訟經濟?面對質疑不就是把這個證訊觀點讓法院來勘驗嗎?認真的反駁被告的質疑怎麼法院官說起來不敢勘驗呢?把被檢查判審判長、審判長來決定的有法院來決定的你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官,沒有在問你個案問題如果你去檢查的話,面對不正訊問的質疑最好的方式不就是公開證訊觀點嗎?\n讓法院來看驗嗎?這個是法院的職權,那個可以在法院上去主張現任大法官劉伯祥說過,偵查室內什麼事都可以發生所以全程錄音錄影是必要的現在就有在實施,現在全程錄音錄影本來就是在實施的羅秉成,前發言人,他有說公開偵訊有和不可\n你如果一直回避問題,你是不是鼓勵按照法律的規定來處理?你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訓問呢?我沒有什麼訴訟經濟,我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指啦但是檢查在執行職務,那本來就是依法律來規定來處理如果說委員你有關係,有一些認為依託法律的這些問題那個所得的證據,那個在法庭上是可以主張嘛\n今天我們是要你公開的一個態度跟立場講清楚真訊觀點就是為了後來的問題一出現的時候先把它全程錄音錄影到有職業的時候拿出來勘驗連勘驗都不行嗎那你做事檢察官說訴訟經濟\n訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎你現在從談到這些全部說是個案裡面的法庭的官房以及證據的一些的要不要勘驗都有問題你所管轄檢察官用這樣的理由那我問你啊假設你自己當過檢察官啊你連面對我的倫理規範你都不敢講啊我沒什麼不敢講啊倫理規範啊就是有質疑啊不准人民有質疑嗎我沒有什麼不能質疑啊\n菁姐說妳的態度是什麼 徵訊光田請允許公開開業讓台灣的司法維持尊嚴公正跟基本的人權保障要依照法律的規定啦好 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.599 --> 00:07.540\n謝謝主席有請部長麻煩部長找上皇國參委員吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞選委員都有詢問到就是跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範那這邊我要請教部長對於法務部來說檢察官的倫理規範第13條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢\n\n00:30.788 --> 00:48.259\n這條說檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度對被告或證人詢問時不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法也就是不能有不正詢問那檢察官也不能用笑虐、怒罵或歧視情形請問法務部要如何避免這條規範淪為巨文呢請部長說明\n\n00:52.749 --> 01:07.638\n那個開庭的態度法務部都非常的重視那目前的做法事實上我們有再去做一個抽查那抽查那這部分如果有發現這個情形我們也會勸導就是說我們要注意那個開庭的態度部長請問你會認為摯愛難行嗎\n\n01:10.474 --> 01:30.413\n這個本來就一直在督導在做所以不會至愛難行那本來就是在做啦那一直在做那為什麼又出現了不小重大的冤案呢那些冤案是怎麼來的呢怎麼有冤案呢不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案啊證信譽如證信者啊或是蕭明月啊那個起訴了那自然有法院獨立的一個審判嘛那如果說對這些\n\n01:31.874 --> 01:42.620\n開庭的態度是不是會有影響到這個證據能力的問題一百刑訴書法一百五十六證據能力的問題那這部分他可以在開庭的時候我現在在談一個倫理規範就是怎麼樣讓這個原案司法的尊嚴公正人權不要受阻原案跟那個證人保護法第三十四條這個原案應該是屬於證據證據的請尊重我的執行權第三\n\n01:57.029 --> 02:12.208\n證人保護法第四條第一二三項規定看無條件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查過程中如果提供或公訴也就是他的自白證詞其他被告的犯罪事實那可以讓檢察官可以追溯其他的被告這個人就可以變成污點證人\n\n02:13.610 --> 02:25.259\n那他也可以請法官對他做出這些他本身做不起訴處分那也請法官可以減輕或免除其刑部長請問我對這條條文的解讀正確嗎?政治正確嗎?這個是法律的規定那轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或是真的可以減輕甚至免除他的刑責那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利?\n\n02:38.510 --> 02:49.817\n是不是很有力這個法律上對鼓勵共犯的一個自白是不是很有力嘛這個是優惠的一個規定鼓勵一個自白可以減輕或免出去\n\n02:55.692 --> 03:22.065\n所以當這個刑訴法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正詢問時原本是從被告轉為污點證人的自白辯詞你要如何證明他是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白是沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響所做的罪據真實性的檢察官要有責任去保障對嗎?我這樣說對嗎?這個利誘就是出於一個不法的一個行為的利誘\n\n03:23.386 --> 03:40.482\n那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛\n\n03:48.769 --> 04:05.520\n我國刑事制度追訴是禁止檢查官利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由這個所謂的利用就前提是違反法律規定的一個利用而不是說這個原則你同意嗎不得利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由去利用他這個我看這個書上有一些的一個界定了嘛\n\n04:10.943 --> 04:18.307\n如果說告訴他你轉入污點證人這是一個合法的行為這是證人保護法規定的剛才委員不是有講得很清楚嗎你沒有針對我的問題我國的證人保護法針對檢察官應該要確保保障被告的自白證人要有認立性跟真實性那如果說證人有違證的話他就用違證罪來處罰嗎那既然如此我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權利的工具\n\n04:36.938 --> 04:44.327\n這件事就非常重要因為你沒有規定嘛你要怎麼避免我問你這不重要嘛怎麼要避免這不重要嘛董事長你聽不懂嗎我是問你如何避免他污點證成為檢察官濫用國家權的工具你同意嗎這個非常重要啊如何避免\n\n04:56.221 --> 04:59.004\n本來就是要檢察官本來就是要依照目前的刑訴法依法偵辦嘛檢察官徵詢過程必須要全程錄音錄影也就是說當未來當未來有出現對自白政治有任意性真實性有爭執的時候或是認為有不正詢問的時候\n\n05:13.519 --> 05:34.210\n這個時候就可以作為證明之用啊也就是說檢察官徵訊每一個被告證人的徵訊光碟內容到底如何就是用來檢視污點證人自白證詞是否有真實是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具對不對他本來就是有對證有規定如果有證詞的話在審理中的話可以提出嘛提出\n\n05:34.730 --> 05:39.633\n部長我是問你原則問題你的態度問題這個本來我們就是依法來處理嘛依法處理這個本來就是依法而且委員你關心的就是100條之一的請問被告人權負隱在康恩決案裡面我們最近看到台北地檢署在審判過程中對面對被告審慶敬質疑污點證人問主席阿虎我跟你講不要去在那邊提個案你這個個案的問題你應該在審理說的案件你應該到法庭去主張\n\n06:00.145 --> 06:01.726\n他提出北檢說我在問你原則問題北檢說為了訴訟經濟所以反對我來談這個問題訴訟經濟所以反對偵訊這個看驗偵訊光碟北檢在怕什麼\n\n06:17.174 --> 06:23.416\n什麼叫訴訟經濟?面對質疑不就是把這個證訊觀點讓法院來勘驗嗎?認真的反駁被告的質疑怎麼法院官說起來不敢勘驗呢?把被檢查判審判長、審判長來決定的有法院來決定的你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官,沒有在問你個案問題如果你去檢查的話,面對不正訊問的質疑最好的方式不就是公開證訊觀點嗎?\n\n06:44.181 --> 06:50.805\n讓法院來看驗嗎?這個是法院的職權,那個可以在法院上去主張現任大法官劉伯祥說過,偵查室內什麼事都可以發生所以全程錄音錄影是必要的現在就有在實施,現在全程錄音錄影本來就是在實施的羅秉成,前發言人,他有說公開偵訊有和不可\n\n07:04.074 --> 07:09.819\n你如果一直回避問題,你是不是鼓勵按照法律的規定來處理?你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訓問呢?我沒有什麼訴訟經濟,我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指啦但是檢查在執行職務,那本來就是依法律來規定來處理如果說委員你有關係,有一些認為依託法律的這些問題那個所得的證據,那個在法庭上是可以主張嘛\n\n07:28.370 --> 07:32.113\n今天我們是要你公開的一個態度跟立場講清楚真訊觀點就是為了後來的問題一出現的時候先把它全程錄音錄影到有職業的時候拿出來勘驗連勘驗都不行嗎那你做事檢察官說訴訟經濟\n\n07:51.588 --> 08:03.353\n訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎你現在從談到這些全部說是個案裡面的法庭的官房以及證據的一些的要不要勘驗都有問題你所管轄檢察官用這樣的理由那我問你啊假設你自己當過檢察官啊你連面對我的倫理規範你都不敢講啊我沒什麼不敢講啊倫理規範啊就是有質疑啊不准人民有質疑嗎我沒有什麼不能質疑啊\n\n08:15.212 --> 08:27.746\n菁姐說妳的態度是什麼徵訊光田請允許公開開業讓台灣的司法維持尊嚴公正跟基本的人權保障要依照法律的規定啦好謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.599,"end":7.54,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長麻煩部長找上皇國參委員 吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞選委員都有詢問到就是跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範那這邊我要請教部長對於法務部來說檢察官的倫理規範第13條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢"},{"start":30.788,"end":48.259,"text":"這條說檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度對被告或證人詢問時不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法也就是不能有不正詢問那檢察官也不能用笑虐、怒罵或歧視情形請問法務部要如何避免這條規範淪為巨文呢請部長說明"},{"start":52.749,"end":67.638,"text":"那個開庭的態度法務部都非常的重視那目前的做法事實上我們有再去做一個抽查那抽查那這部分如果有發現這個情形我們也會勸導就是說我們要注意那個開庭的態度部長請問你會認為摯愛難行嗎"},{"start":70.474,"end":90.413,"text":"這個本來就一直在督導在做所以不會至愛難行那本來就是在做啦那一直在做那為什麼又出現了不小重大的冤案呢那些冤案是怎麼來的呢怎麼有冤案呢不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案啊證信譽如證信者啊或是蕭明月啊那個起訴了那自然有法院獨立的一個審判嘛那如果說對這些"},{"start":91.874,"end":102.62,"text":"開庭的態度是不是會有影響到這個證據能力的問題一百刑訴書法一百五十六證據能力的問題那這部分他可以在開庭的時候我現在在談一個倫理規範就是怎麼樣讓這個原案司法的尊嚴公正人權不要受阻原案跟那個證人保護法第三十四條這個原案應該是屬於證據證據的請尊重我的執行權第三"},{"start":117.029,"end":132.208,"text":"證人保護法第四條第一二三項規定看無條件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查過程中如果提供或公訴也就是他的自白證詞其他被告的犯罪事實那可以讓檢察官可以追溯其他的被告這個人就可以變成污點證人"},{"start":133.61,"end":145.259,"text":"那他也可以請法官對他做出這些他本身做不起訴處分那也請法官可以減輕或免除其刑部長請問我對這條條文的解讀正確嗎?政治正確嗎?這個是法律的規定那轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或是真的可以減輕甚至免除他的刑責那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利?"},{"start":158.51,"end":169.817,"text":"是不是很有力這個法律上對鼓勵共犯的一個自白是不是很有力嘛這個是優惠的一個規定鼓勵一個自白可以減輕或免出去"},{"start":175.692,"end":202.065,"text":"所以當這個刑訴法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正詢問時原本是從被告轉為污點證人的自白辯詞你要如何證明他是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白是沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響所做的罪據真實性的檢察官要有責任去保障對嗎?我這樣說對嗎?這個利誘就是出於一個不法的一個行為的利誘"},{"start":203.386,"end":220.482,"text":"那如果說是告知法律上的一個優惠的規定這是一個合法的這是對被告有利的一個當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛所以警察對被告有利不利都要注意那更何況是證人證人的話證人保護法這證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候要給他一個優惠嘛"},{"start":228.769,"end":245.52,"text":"我國刑事制度追訴是禁止檢查官利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由這個所謂的利用就前提是違反法律規定的一個利用而不是說這個原則你同意嗎 不得利用轉為污點證人或不起訴這個理由去利用他這個我看這個書上有一些的一個界定了嘛"},{"start":250.943,"end":258.307,"text":"如果說告訴他 你轉入污點證人 這是一個合法的行為這是證人保護法規定的 剛才委員不是有講得很清楚嗎你沒有針對我的問題我國的證人保護法 針對檢察官 應該要確保保障被告的自白證人要有認立性跟真實性那如果說證人有違證的話 他就用違證罪來處罰嗎那既然如此 我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權利的工具"},{"start":276.938,"end":284.327,"text":"這件事就非常重要因為你沒有規定嘛你要怎麼避免我問你這不重要嘛怎麼要避免這不重要嘛董事長你聽不懂嗎我是問你如何避免他污點證成為檢察官濫用國家權的工具你同意嗎這個非常重要啊如何避免"},{"start":296.221,"end":299.004,"text":"本來就是要 檢察官本來就是要依照目前的刑訴法 依法偵辦嘛檢察官徵詢過程必須要全程錄音 錄影也就是說當未來當未來有出現對自白政治有任意性 真實性有爭執的時候或是認為有不正詢問的時候"},{"start":313.519,"end":334.21,"text":"這個時候就可以作為證明之用啊也就是說檢察官徵訊每一個被告證人的徵訊光碟內容到底如何就是用來檢視污點證人自白證詞是否有真實是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具對不對他本來就是有對證有規定如果有證詞的話在審理中的話可以提出嘛提出"},{"start":334.73,"end":339.633,"text":"部長我是問你原則問題 你的態度問題這個本來我們就是依法來處理嘛 依法處理這個本來就是依法 而且委員你關心的就是100條之一的請問被告人權負隱在康恩決案裡面我們最近看到台北地檢署在審判過程中對面對被告審慶敬質疑污點證人問主席阿虎 我跟你講不要去在那邊提個案你這個個案的問題你應該在審理說的案件你應該到法庭去主張"},{"start":360.145,"end":361.726,"text":"他提出北檢說 我在問你原則問題北檢說為了訴訟經濟所以反對我來談這個問題訴訟經濟所以反對偵訊這個看驗偵訊光碟北檢在怕什麼"},{"start":377.174,"end":383.416,"text":"什麼叫訴訟經濟?面對質疑不就是把這個證訊觀點讓法院來勘驗嗎?認真的反駁被告的質疑怎麼法院官說起來不敢勘驗呢?把被檢查判審判長、審判長來決定的有法院來決定的你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官,沒有在問你個案問題如果你去檢查的話,面對不正訊問的質疑最好的方式不就是公開證訊觀點嗎?"},{"start":404.181,"end":410.805,"text":"讓法院來看驗嗎?這個是法院的職權,那個可以在法院上去主張現任大法官劉伯祥說過,偵查室內什麼事都可以發生所以全程錄音錄影是必要的現在就有在實施,現在全程錄音錄影本來就是在實施的羅秉成,前發言人,他有說公開偵訊有和不可"},{"start":424.074,"end":429.819,"text":"你如果一直回避問題,你是不是鼓勵按照法律的規定來處理?你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訓問呢?我沒有什麼訴訟經濟,我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指啦但是檢查在執行職務,那本來就是依法律來規定來處理如果說委員你有關係,有一些認為依託法律的這些問題那個所得的證據,那個在法庭上是可以主張嘛"},{"start":448.37,"end":452.113,"text":"今天我們是要你公開的一個態度跟立場講清楚真訊觀點就是為了後來的問題一出現的時候先把它全程錄音錄影到有職業的時候拿出來勘驗連勘驗都不行嗎那你做事檢察官說訴訟經濟"},{"start":471.588,"end":483.353,"text":"訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎你現在從談到這些全部說是個案裡面的法庭的官房以及證據的一些的要不要勘驗都有問題你所管轄檢察官用這樣的理由那我問你啊假設你自己當過檢察官啊你連面對我的倫理規範你都不敢講啊我沒什麼不敢講啊倫理規範啊就是有質疑啊不准人民有質疑嗎我沒有什麼不能質疑啊"},{"start":495.212,"end":507.746,"text":"菁姐說妳的態度是什麼 徵訊光田請允許公開開業讓台灣的司法維持尊嚴公正跟基本的人權保障要依照法律的規定啦好 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":975,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（12時3分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長好。早上黃國昌委員、吳宗憲委員還有莊瑞雄委員在詢問的時候都有跟您提到檢察官的倫理規範，那我要請教部長，對於法務部來說，檢察官的倫理規範第十三條究竟是怎麼樣的一個條文呢？這一條規定檢察官在執行職務時要有專業態度，對被告或證人詢問時，不得用強暴、脅迫、利誘等等不正方法，也就是不能有不正訊問，那檢察官也不能有笑謔、怒罵或歧視的情形，請問法務部要如何避免這個規定淪為具文呢？請部長說明。"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於開庭的態度，法務部都非常的重視，對於目前的作法，事實上，我們有再去做一個抽查，經抽查如果有發現這種情形，我們也會勸導要注意開庭的態度。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，請問你會認為窒礙難行嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個本來就一直有在督導、有在做。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以不會窒礙難行？"],["鄭部長銘謙：那本來就是在做了。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，有一直在做，那為什麼出現不少重大的冤案呢？這些冤案是怎麼來的呢？像鄭性澤案、蕭明岳案啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：怎麼會有冤案呢？我不曉得委員是指哪一個冤案。"],["陳委員昭姿：例如鄭性澤案、蕭明岳案。"],["鄭部長銘謙：基本上，在起訴以後自然就由法院獨立審判，至於在開庭時的這些態度是不是會影響到證據能力的問題，刑事訴訟法第一百五十六條有規定證據能力，這部分他可以在開庭的時候主張嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我現在來談倫理規範，就是怎麼樣不要造成冤案，司法的尊嚴、公正、人權不要受……"],["鄭部長銘謙：冤案跟檢察官倫理應該……"],["陳委員昭姿：我跟您談證人保護法第十四條……"],["鄭部長銘謙：冤案應該是屬於證據的一個……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，請尊重我的質詢權。依證人保護法第十四條第一、二、三項規定，貪污案件的被告或犯罪嫌疑人在偵查中如果提供或供述（也就是自白證詞）其他被告的犯罪事證，讓檢察官可以追訴其他被告時，這個人就可以變成污點證人，檢察官可以對他做出不起訴處分，或建議法官可以減輕或免除其刑。請問部長，我對這個條文的認知正確嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是法律的規定。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。部長，轉為污點證人就可能不會被檢察官起訴或減輕甚至免除刑責，那對於這個原本是被告的污點證人是不是很有利？"],["鄭部長銘謙：法律上對鼓勵共犯的自白，我想是……"],["陳委員昭姿：是不是很有利嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是一個優惠的規定，鼓勵自白就可以減輕或免除其刑。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以是很有利，這連小學生都知道，這是最基本的。當刑事訴訟法規定檢察官不可以用利誘的方式對被告不正訊問時，原本是被告轉為污點證人的自白證詞，你要如何證明是在這個人的自由意志下所做出的任意自白，沒有受到檢察官的利誘影響、是具真實性的？檢察官應該有責任要確保，我這樣說對嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個利誘也就是出於一個不法行為的利誘……"],["陳委員昭姿：檢察官有責任去確保嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果是告知法律上一個優惠的規定，這是一個合法的，這是對被告有利的，當然一定要跟被告講清楚嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你不要跟我講一些五四三的，你就直接回答。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以不管是對被告有利、不利，檢察官都要注意，更何況是證人，如果是證人的話，證人保護法就是保護一定要給被告……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，刑事追訴制度是禁止啊！禁止檢察官利誘被告轉為污點證人……"],["鄭部長銘謙：一個共同共犯如果當證人的時候，要給他一個優惠嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：我們現在不是在辯護，你是在備詢！我國刑事追訴制度是禁止檢察官利誘轉為污點證人或以不起訴為理由要求被告說出對其他人不利的話……"],["鄭部長銘謙：所謂利誘的前提是一個違反法律規定的利誘，而不是說……"],["陳委員昭姿：你同意這個原則嗎？不得利誘被告轉為污點證人跟以不起訴這個理由去利誘他……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對於利誘的定義是不是要先界定？我看實務上有一個界定了，如果告訴他可以轉污點證人，這是一個合法的行為，這是證人保護法規定的，剛才委員不是有講得很清楚了嗎？"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你沒有針對我的問題回答。我國的證人保護法，針對檢察官應該要確保、保障被告的自白證詞要有任意性、真實性，是沒有任何規定的……"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果證人有做偽證的話，就用偽證罪來處罰嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：既然如此，我們要如何去避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權力的工具，這件事情就非常重要，因為你沒有規定嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，我要聲明這不是什麼濫用，讓被告當污點證人，這不是在濫用喔！這是一個依法令的行為，不管對被告有利、不利都要注意啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：我問你重不重要嘛！怎麼樣避免重不重要嘛！部長，你聽不懂嗎？我是問你如何避免污點證人成為檢察官濫用國家權力的工具，你同意嗎？這個非常重要啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官本來就是要依法偵辦，要依法執行職務嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：好，依照目前的刑訴法，檢察官偵訊過程必須要全程錄音、錄影，就是在未來對於自白證詞的任意性、真實性出現爭執或是認為有不正訊問的時候，這個時候就可以作為證明之用。也就是說，檢察官偵訊每一個被告、證人的偵訊光碟，它的內容到底如何，就是用來檢視污點證人的自白證詞是否真實、是否基於被告自由意志的唯一工具，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：刑事訴訟法第一百條之一本來就對這個有規定，如果有爭執的話，在審理的時候可以提出嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我是問你原則的問題、態度的問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們本來就是依法來處理，這個本來就是依法，而且委員所關心的就是第一百條之一的規定，訊問被告要全程連續錄音、連續錄影嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，現在是我的時間，請尊重我的時間。在柯文哲案裡面，我們最近看到，臺北地檢署在審判過程面對被告沈慶京質疑污點證人朱亞虎在偵訊過程中……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，我跟你講，不要在這邊提個案……"],["陳委員昭姿：我不是要問你個案問題，我是在問你態度問題！"],["鄭部長銘謙：你對這個個案的問題，這是在審理中的案件，你應該到法庭去主張，是不是有第一百五十六條不得當成證據、排除當證據……"],["陳委員昭姿：我是在問你原則問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：你說要問原則問題，那你就不要提個案。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以你反對我來談這個問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：你說要提原則，可是你在提個案。"],["陳委員昭姿：北檢說基於訴訟經濟所以反對勘驗偵訊光碟，北檢在怕什麼？什麼叫訴訟經濟？"],["鄭部長銘謙：北檢沒有在怕啊！北檢就依法執行職務、依法偵辦、依法實行公訴。"],["陳委員昭姿：面對質疑，不就是把偵訊光碟讓法院來勘驗嗎？認真的反駁被告的質疑，怎麼反而龜縮起來，不敢勘驗呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：審理中要不要勘驗，這個是由法院審判長決定的，由法院決定的。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我沒有要問你個案問題，你過去也擔任過第一線檢察官，我沒有要問你個案問題，如果你是檢察官，面對不正訊問這樣的質疑，最好的方式不就是公開偵訊光碟，讓法院來勘驗嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是法院的職權，可以在法院上去主張……"],["陳委員昭姿：現任大法官尤伯祥說過偵察室內什麼事都可以發生，所以全程錄音、錄影是必要的，必要而且公開！"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在就有在實施啊！全程錄音、錄影現在本來就是在實施了。"],["陳委員昭姿：羅秉成前發言人也說公開偵訊有何不可？部長，你如果一直迴避問題是不是鼓勵不正訊問呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有在迴避問題，我是按照法律的規定處理、回答的。"],["陳委員昭姿：你是不是鼓勵用訴訟經濟這個理由蓋牌不正訊問呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有什麼訴訟經濟，我不曉得委員的訴訟經濟究何所指，但是檢察官在執行職務本來就是依法令規定處理，如果委員認為有一些逸脫法律的問題，所得證據在法庭上是可以主張的，那個可以作為主張，我想我們就法論法……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，今天我們是要你公開地把態度和立場講清楚。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我本來就講得很清楚，我現在講得不夠清楚嗎？"],["陳委員昭姿：偵訊光碟就是為了後來問題出現的時候，先把它全程錄音、錄影，到有質疑的時候拿出來勘驗，連勘驗都不行嗎？連勘驗都不行嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：那本來就是在法庭上勘驗，法庭上勘驗本來就是法院的職權。"],["陳委員昭姿：訴訟經濟可以蓋過程序正義嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，你現在所談到的這些全部都是個案裡面的法庭攻防，以及證據要不要勘驗的問題，這個是臺北地方法院法官的職權。"],["陳委員昭姿：你所管轄的檢察官用這樣的理由，那我問你，假設……你自己當過檢察官，你連面對我的倫理規範，你都不敢講啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒什麼不敢講啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：倫理規範啊！就是有質疑啊！不准人民有質疑嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有什麼不能質疑啊！你提到就是要不要勘驗的問題，這是法院的職權嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：有質疑的時候你的態度是什麼？偵訊光碟請允許公開勘驗！偵訊光碟請允許公開勘驗！讓臺灣的司法維持尊嚴公正和基本的人權保障。"],["鄭部長銘謙：要依照法律的規定。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","黃國昌","王義川","陳培瑜","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","羅智強","吳思瑤","劉書彬","林國成","麥玉珍","陳昭姿","張啓楷","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","林倩綺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-06-16"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正\n監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括\n提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續併案審查（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具\n「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案、（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監\n察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委\n員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00006"}}}