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\"這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 51.15, \"end\": 51.411, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 51.411, \"end\": 52.091, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 52.091, \"end\": 52.612, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 52.612, \"end\": 52.812, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 52.812, \"end\": 53.012, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 53.012, \"end\": 54.454, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 54.454, \"end\": 54.734, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 54.734, \"end\": 55.615, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.615, \"end\": 55.795, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 55.795, \"end\": 56.256, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, 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64.505, \"end\": 64.685, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 64.685, \"end\": 64.845, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 64.845, \"end\": 65.046, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 65.046, \"end\": 65.206, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 65.206, \"end\": 65.506, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 65.506, \"end\": 65.646, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 65.646, \"end\": 66.507, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 66.507, \"end\": 66.767, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 66.767, \"end\": 66.868, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 66.868, \"end\": 67.568, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.568, \"end\": 67.809, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 67.809, \"end\": 67.989, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 67.989, \"end\": 68.089, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 68.089, \"end\": 68.65, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 68.65, \"end\": 68.97, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 68.97, \"end\": 69.25, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 69.25, \"end\": 69.35, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 69.35, \"end\": 69.37, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 71.246, \"end\": 97.458, \"text\": \"目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 71.246, \"end\": 71.486, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 71.486, \"end\": 72.347, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 72.347, \"end\": 72.507, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.507, \"end\": 73.007, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 73.007, 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94.757, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 94.757, \"end\": 95.177, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 95.177, \"end\": 95.557, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 95.557, \"end\": 95.837, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 95.837, \"end\": 95.997, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 95.997, \"end\": 96.117, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 96.117, \"end\": 96.677, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 96.677, \"end\": 96.797, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 96.797, \"end\": 96.938, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 96.938, \"end\": 97.038, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 97.038, \"end\": 97.158, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 97.158, \"end\": 97.318, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 97.318, \"end\": 97.438, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 97.438, \"end\": 97.458, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}]}, {\"start\": 99.399, \"end\": 126.493, \"text\": \"法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好 本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 99.399, \"end\": 99.539, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 99.539, \"end\": 99.679, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 99.679, \"end\": 100.06, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 100.06, \"end\": 100.34, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 100.34, \"end\": 100.44, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 100.44, \"end\": 100.68, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 100.68, \"end\": 100.96, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.96, \"end\": 101.4, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 101.4, \"end\": 101.66, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 101.66, \"end\": 101.84, 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211.847, \"end\": 212.788, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 212.788, \"end\": 212.949, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 212.949, \"end\": 213.049, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 213.049, \"end\": 213.609, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 213.609, \"end\": 214.21, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 214.21, \"end\": 214.43, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 214.43, \"end\": 214.931, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 214.931, \"end\": 215.191, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 215.191, \"end\": 215.732, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 215.732, \"end\": 215.912, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 215.912, \"end\": 216.112, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 216.112, \"end\": 216.252, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 216.252, \"end\": 216.272, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 217.994, \"end\": 234.061, \"text\": \"過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 217.994, \"end\": 218.134, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 218.134, \"end\": 219.135, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 219.135, \"end\": 219.435, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.435, \"end\": 219.795, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.795, \"end\": 220.415, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 220.415, \"end\": 220.635, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 220.635, \"end\": 221.616, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 221.616, \"end\": 222.056, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, 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231.86, \"end\": 232.52, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 232.52, \"end\": 232.8, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 232.8, \"end\": 233.2, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 233.2, \"end\": 233.42, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 233.42, \"end\": 233.541, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 233.541, \"end\": 233.681, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 233.681, \"end\": 233.881, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 233.881, \"end\": 234.021, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 234.021, \"end\": 234.041, \"score\": 0.511}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 234.041, \"end\": 234.061, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 234.821, \"end\": 255.453, \"text\": \"所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束\", \"words\": 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{\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 702.402, \"end\": 702.802, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 702.802, \"end\": 703.622, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 703.622, \"end\": 703.763, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 703.763, \"end\": 703.983, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 703.983, \"end\": 704.243, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 704.243, \"end\": 704.263, \"score\": 0.877}]}, {\"start\": 706.503, \"end\": 730.809, \"text\": \"而且超時的問題對不對 因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 706.503, \"end\": 706.823, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 706.823, \"end\": 707.163, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 707.163, \"end\": 707.644, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 707.644, \"end\": 709.364, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1169.694, \"end\": 1170.395, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1170.395, \"end\": 1170.895, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1170.895, \"end\": 1170.915, \"score\": 0.04}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,203 --> 00:00:30,935\n好謝謝主席先有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長麻煩副秘你好王副秘你好我想今天大家都在討論有關於就是\n\n2\n00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:49,609\n要被監察院的还有针对监察委员之前因为可能疑似有来用公务车的这样的一个问题来进行讨论那我刚刚有听到黄珊珊委员有提示就是监察院要提出监察委员行为法的相关的\n\n3\n00:00:51,150 --> 00:01:09,370\n這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎\n\n4\n00:01:11,246 --> 00:01:37,458\n目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡\n\n5\n00:01:39,399 --> 00:02:06,493\n法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的\n\n6\n00:02:08,203 --> 00:02:28,926\n而且我仔細的看過監察委員自律規範他跟立法委員的行為法最大的不同就在於說對於違法失職的監察委員他沒有處罰的效果你們現在如果說是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:30,013 --> 00:02:37,879\n他可以他可以經過調查然後可以彈劾也可以移送司法機關檢調然後呢除此之外呢可以罰還嗎如果移送彈劾移送彈劾經過經過彈劾審查會通過以後那目前的懲戒規範就有九種所以還是要移送彈劾懲戒規範嗎可以停權嗎\n\n8\n00:02:56,809 --> 00:03:13,909\n目前是没有这样子的选项是这就是我为什么提出监察委员行为法草案的问题因为本席认为说目前现在监察委员自律规范里面所规范的相关的法律效果其实是很弱的\n\n9\n00:03:14,369 --> 00:03:36,272\n只是口頭申戒然後遇到事情然後移送法辦這每一個行政官員如果說有違法失職的話其實他依法他就要移送這個刑事的法辦或者是移送公務員懲戒這是一般的這個政府官員公務員都會碰到的都會適用的相關規定可是監察委員他不一樣嘛\n\n10\n00:03:37,994 --> 00:03:54,061\n過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的\n\n11\n00:03:54,821 --> 00:04:15,453\n所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束\n\n12\n00:04:17,145 --> 00:04:33,713\n就是跟委員說明一下那監察院跟立法院當然性質是完全不相同那就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表就是不包括立法委員這樣子然後另外我們也有稍微研究了一下\n\n13\n00:04:34,173 --> 00:05:00,478\n各個憲政機關各個憲政機關比如說像司法院比如說像考試院他們其實也都是用自律規範來處理內部就是委員的這樣子的一個自律的情勢王副秘書長我在這邊我們不用再去針對這個五權的機關他們的各有的職長他們的性質都不盡相同監察委員\n\n14\n00:05:01,979 --> 00:05:12,018\n过去我们还称之为他不是古代叫称之为御史大夫要非常的清廉然后就要洁身自爱现在的建厂委员是这样吗\n\n15\n00:05:13,203 --> 00:05:36,077\n所以我認為說是有必要提升他的法衛階好的那麼這邊是我剛剛這是因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示所以我這邊要提醒你其實本期早就已經提案了好那謝謝你請回那接下來我要請矯正署周署長待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長\n\n16\n00:05:42,281 --> 00:06:07,889\n我要請教周署長因為我們今天主要是談的是有關於育政人員管理的一些問題那麼在去年11月的時候曾經有發生一起在高雄女子監獄的女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎這位女科長是不是真的是因為工作過勞而輕生\n\n17\n00:06:10,869 --> 00:06:26,159\n是我們有調查他本身是一個基督教徒然後他也有責任感很有責任感那時候剛好高雄地區發生那個淹水那身為總務科長因為水電\n\n18\n00:06:29,662 --> 00:06:52,964\n對堅守來講是很重要的水電場景沒有處理好會產生求情不安求情騷動的問題那他可能也給自己的壓力太大了雖然典議長也有指派秘書秘書也是總務出身的來協助他也有指派副典議長去關心他但是他本身\n\n19\n00:06:53,985 --> 00:07:20,140\n我們也是很遺憾她後來雖然她是基督教徒沒有找教友去有點遺憾啦在家裡面是我想這個跟因為剛聽了署長的說明知道說這位女科長西北她是做總務的總務科科長但是呢基於責任感她可能怕擔心沒有辦法處理好她自己的份內的這工作造成監獄的\n\n20\n00:07:21,594 --> 00:07:37,855\n這個受刑人也許這個會有騷動但是呢我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出就是在預證管理的部分其實每一個環節都很重要而事實上我們也知道其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面你可以看到我們目前\n\n21\n00:07:39,677 --> 00:08:02,217\n這個借戶人力比是偏高而且高很多那麼我們目前矯正機關的核定的容額是60552人但是呢雖然說到目前為止收入人數是59805人可是實際上有許多的矯正機關許多的監獄看守所他們的人數都是超收的\n\n22\n00:08:03,478 --> 00:08:20,811\n那麼以本席這邊整理的這個相關的這個監所超收的情形就可以知道像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹、高雄還有監獄他們的超收比例都是高達兩三成台北看守所的超收比率則是達到36%點多這個其實超收的這個\n\n23\n00:08:27,471 --> 00:08:52,967\n這個相關的人員過高這一定也會造成戒護人力的吃緊對不對那你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講嘛我們現在的這個戒護人力比看看現在台灣我們是1比11等於說一個戒護人員他要去管理11位受刑人這跟其他的世界的國家相比高到不行耶\n\n24\n00:08:54,489 --> 00:09:03,414\n你看看這個美國是1比4.5日本是1比2.3新加坡1比6.5南海是1比3我們是1比11\n\n25\n00:09:06,637 --> 00:09:28,348\n請問您對於這件事情認為要怎麼樣去解決呢是報告委員我們這幾年來總共也有向人總請徵了900多人那麼將來在八德外醫間跟彰化看守所擴建建工程完畢之後大概預估可以增加3459位的容額\n\n26\n00:09:31,630 --> 00:09:47,619\n那對於北部中部地區的舒緩絕對有很大的幫助是好您剛剛說你們像人總有提出要增加介護人力的原額900多人但是實際所以現在這些900多人總已經給我們的這幾年但是有補齊嗎沒有嘛你們實際上的缺額還有709所以代表說\n\n27\n00:09:56,264 --> 00:10:25,844\n沒有太多的就是你們也招不到適合的人或是也沒有人願意來去調任到那一方面跟委員報告我們要建立智慧監獄用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作所以這個部分我們在105年已經在雲林監獄、嘉峪所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了\n\n28\n00:10:26,384 --> 00:10:54,374\n那包括我們的科技安全網也在順利的示範當中好謝謝署長您剛剛的說明那我想進一步請教就是說所以這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺還是說是因為你剛剛有講到嘛現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度去去辦理去設置相關設備所以也許不需要這麼多人力是因為這個原因嗎不是因為它有題類考試的名額的關係\n\n29\n00:10:56,189 --> 00:11:14,115\n鐵列考試名額所以沒有太多人來報考沒有太多人來報考的原因報考也是會來報考但是我們也有訓練考訓用之後他在辭職或是商調走的也是有我們平均大概4到5%\n\n30\n00:11:16,295 --> 00:11:44,263\n因為我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的會不會也是因為跟借戶人力的薪資待遇各方面其實是他的工作的應該說跟待遇比較沒關係因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點因為出任的管理員應該有五萬左右但是問題是我們是高壓的環境我們是管人\n\n31\n00:11:46,503 --> 00:12:10,809\n而且超時的問題對不對因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力\n\n32\n00:12:11,529 --> 00:12:32,597\n醫事人力還有這個新設人力等等我們也看到他的比例非常高以醫事人力來講一位醫生他要照顧303位受刑人你們這個有沒有去跟其他的國家有去做比較在其他國家的監獄裡面的醫事人力還有新設教化人力的比是如此之高嗎\n\n33\n00:12:34,268 --> 00:12:52,168\n我們沒有醫事院跟外國做比較但是原則上我們現在102人有加入二代健保鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來但是我們醫事院也是在比如在疫情期間確實他們的工作量是加重很重\n\n34\n00:12:52,648 --> 00:13:04,856\n那我們原則上也會有缺額我們會招考招考外面有一些A病人員他都很願意來簽署這報名考試是領有專業執照的職業執照的醫生還是說只是一般的公司人員\n\n35\n00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:38,407\n護理師他願意來監獄報名護士因為我們是監製內他們有時候是約聘人員醫師來講我在民國95年擔任台中藉治所所長的時候有招待一位豐原醫院完醫的醫師我有問他你為什麼願意來藉治所擔任專任醫師他說他是約聘的醫師那我們這邊是工資內工資內比較有保障\n\n36\n00:13:41,128 --> 00:13:58,569\n現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師現在一位醫師都沒有所以只有我們一位醫師台中介治所應該有一位專任的有一位有嗎編制內的台中介治所有五位劉護家醫師因為我印象深刻\n\n37\n00:13:59,890 --> 00:14:21,634\n不管是一位或是零位啦總之就是全台灣這麼多的監獄看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師然後呢其他最多只有一位嘛那其餘的幾乎就都是以護理師為主所以你們這邊看起來他的工作量很大那麼本席是認為說其實站在就是也是要照顧到受刑人相關的健康權利的立場上我認為你們應該有必要要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的\n\n38\n00:14:29,215 --> 00:14:55,451\n要強化醫事人力跟這個新設人力那麼另外就說在教化人力的部分呢因為看到一些新聞媒體報導也有講說這個教化人員基本上都是他是從基層的預證人員然後再升到教化人員但是教化人員的工作量很大但是他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼對不對你們之前有說要去這個要去制定有關於圍牢\n\n39\n00:14:56,351 --> 00:15:20,523\n危老的今天,那現在這部分呢?進度如何?危老的今天,人種可能會矯正署跟海巡署並同處理但是教化人員,他不是介入人員他不能領危老的今天,他不會晚上去執勤他是日勤人員另外跟委員報告,我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師包括藥劑師、醫檢師,這些都是醫事人員\n\n40\n00:15:24,525 --> 00:15:50,408\n好但是本席這邊提醒就是說第一個一是人力看起來現在的他的照顧比過高一比三百多然後另外就是在教化人力的教化人員的部分那麼雖然說他可能不是屬於危險危牢因為他可能晚上不需要去加班但是確實是也是有過勞的問題因為很多教化人員現在說只要看到法院官的判決書上面寫說有教化可能\n\n41\n00:15:51,269 --> 00:16:19,034\n那他們呢就是做死做活就是就是他們非常辛苦了就是做很多的工作平均一個人要輔導上百名或是到上千名的受信人的一些教化工作我覺得這個基本上來說都是對於矯正的管理上面會出現很大的問題那本席是認為說基本上如果人力充裕那麼基本各個這個預證人員他的壓力就不會那麼的大\n\n42\n00:16:19,634 --> 00:16:37,307\n那压力大当然会造成情绪不好那难免也会发生一些可能就是预证人员对于受刑人可能也会有一些暴力的一些问题今天你们的报告书里面主要是谈的是有关于这个收容人员对于职员施暴\n\n43\n00:16:39,229 --> 00:16:46,757\n這個案件書我們看到平均每一年有60起的收容人的暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件本身也認為這個確實是這個比例很高啊對於我們的預證教輔人員\n\n44\n00:16:52,819 --> 00:17:08,173\n很辛苦做這樣子的一份高危險性的工作可是我們也不容忽視的就是說這些年也有發生陸續也有發生就是預證人員戒護人員反過來他可能有一些不當的行為\n\n45\n00:17:09,475 --> 00:17:24,367\n對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況甚至可能還有性騷擾等等這些的問題所以你們有沒有統計過戒護人員的行為不當\n\n46\n00:17:26,249 --> 00:17:44,441\n這個部分沒有統計沒有特別去統計這都是比較個案的那跟委員報告委員有提到那個教會師他是目前領政協危險津貼將來我們會針對教化人員的危險津貼再把他增企提高\n\n47\n00:17:45,582 --> 00:18:09,592\n因為今天時間有限那本席呢希望就矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我第一個就是說有關於就是台灣目前現在矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力和新設人力跟其他的國家的矯正機關的相比我們要現在你們已經做了介護人力的比嘛那另外但是在醫事人力跟\n\n48\n00:18:11,273 --> 00:18:28,330\n這個其他兩種其他總共三種類型的人力的相比較那我們來看看台灣的嚴重的狀況是如何這是第一份這個資料那麼第二份呢本席希望你們也能夠提供在這些年來要不然就是近十年來就是我們的預證人員\n\n49\n00:18:30,592 --> 00:18:54,864\n反過來對於收容人所實施的這種暴力行為的案子雖然剛剛所長說是個案但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來要讓大家知道而且這個也是可以反過來讓我們去思考就是獄政的管理來如何讓它更合理化然後更妥當\n\n50\n00:18:56,781 --> 00:19:23,126\n報告委員我們在不妨礙到各自的前提下我們來努力處理就是麻煩人可以去識別化姓名可以去識別化但是呢比較重要就是要知道說到底是什麼樣的行為太陽那我認為說這個是可以讓我們的預證更為進步在管理上面可以更為進步是不是可以麻煩因為資料不是那麼急可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內可以提供給我好嗎\n\n51\n00:19:23,786 --> 00:19:30,915\n可不可以一個月可以啊一個月那就麻煩你們一個月之內就把這兩份資料給我好的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13203\t30935\t好謝謝主席先有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長麻煩副秘你好王副秘你好我想今天大家都在討論有關於就是\n31650\t49609\t要被監察院的还有针对监察委员之前因为可能疑似有来用公务车的这样的一个问题来进行讨论那我刚刚有听到黄珊珊委员有提示就是监察院要提出监察委员行为法的相关的\n51150\t69370\t這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎\n71246\t97458\t目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡\n99399\t126493\t法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好 本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的\n128203\t148926\t而且我仔細的看過監察委員自律規範他跟立法委員的行為法最大的不同就在於說對於違法失職的監察委員他沒有處罰的效果你們現在如果說是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼\n150013\t157879\t他可以他可以經過調查然後可以彈劾也可以移送司法機關檢調然後呢除此之外呢可以罰還嗎如果移送彈劾移送彈劾經過經過彈劾審查會通過以後那目前的懲戒規範就有九種所以還是要移送彈劾懲戒規範嗎可以停權嗎\n176809\t193909\t目前是没有这样子的选项是这就是我为什么提出监察委员行为法草案的问题因为本席认为说目前现在监察委员自律规范里面所规范的相关的法律效果其实是很弱的\n194369\t216272\t只是口頭申戒然後遇到事情然後移送法辦這每一個行政官員如果說有違法失職的話其實他依法他就要移送這個刑事的法辦或者是移送公務員懲戒這是一般的這個政府官員公務員都會碰到的都會適用的相關規定可是監察委員他不一樣嘛\n217994\t234061\t過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的\n234821\t255453\t所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束\n257145\t273713\t就是跟委員說明一下那監察院跟立法院當然性質是完全不相同那就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表就是不包括立法委員這樣子然後另外我們也有稍微研究了一下\n274173\t300478\t各個憲政機關各個憲政機關比如說像司法院比如說像考試院他們其實也都是用自律規範來處理內部就是委員的這樣子的一個自律的情勢王副秘書長我在這邊我們不用再去針對這個五權的機關他們的各有的職長他們的性質都不盡相同監察委員\n301979\t312018\t过去我们还称之为他不是古代叫称之为御史大夫要非常的清廉然后就要洁身自爱现在的建厂委员是这样吗\n313203\t336077\t所以我認為說是有必要提升他的法衛階好的 那麼這邊是我剛剛這是因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示所以我這邊要提醒你 其實本期早就已經提案了好 那謝謝你 請回那接下來我要請矯正署周署長待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長\n342281\t367889\t我要請教周署長因為我們今天主要是談的是有關於育政人員管理的一些問題那麼在去年11月的時候曾經有發生一起在高雄女子監獄的女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎這位女科長是不是真的是因為工作過勞而輕生\n370869\t386159\t是 我們有調查他本身是一個基督教徒然後他也有責任感很有責任感那時候剛好高雄地區發生那個淹水那身為總務科長因為水電\n389662\t412964\t對堅守來講是很重要的水電場景沒有處理好會產生求情不安求情騷動的問題那他可能也給自己的壓力太大了雖然典議長也有指派秘書秘書也是總務出身的來協助他也有指派副典議長去關心他但是他本身\n413985\t440140\t我們也是很遺憾她後來雖然她是基督教徒沒有找教友去有點遺憾啦在家裡面是我想這個跟因為剛聽了署長的說明知道說這位女科長西北她是做總務的總務科科長但是呢基於責任感她可能怕擔心沒有辦法處理好她自己的份內的這工作造成監獄的\n441594\t457855\t這個受刑人也許這個會有騷動但是呢我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出就是在預證管理的部分其實每一個環節都很重要而事實上我們也知道其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面你可以看到我們目前\n459677\t482217\t這個借戶人力比是偏高而且高很多那麼我們目前矯正機關的核定的容額是60552人但是呢雖然說到目前為止收入人數是59805人可是實際上有許多的矯正機關許多的監獄看守所他們的人數都是超收的\n483478\t500811\t那麼以本席這邊整理的這個相關的這個監所超收的情形就可以知道像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹、高雄還有監獄他們的超收比例都是高達兩三成台北看守所的超收比率則是達到36%點多這個其實超收的這個\n507471\t532967\t這個相關的人員過高這一定也會造成戒護人力的吃緊對不對那你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講嘛我們現在的這個戒護人力比看看現在台灣我們是1比11等於說一個戒護人員他要去管理11位受刑人這跟其他的世界的國家相比高到不行耶\n534489\t543414\t你看看這個美國是1比4.5日本是1比2.3新加坡1比6.5南海是1比3我們是1比11\n546637\t568348\t請問您對於這件事情認為要怎麼樣去解決呢是 報告委員我們這幾年來總共也有向人總請徵了900多人那麼將來在八德外醫間跟彰化看守所擴建建工程完畢之後大概預估可以增加3459位的容額\n571630\t587619\t那對於北部中部地區的舒緩絕對有很大的幫助是好您剛剛說你們像人總有提出要增加介護人力的原額900多人但是實際所以現在這些900多人總已經給我們的這幾年但是有補齊嗎沒有嘛你們實際上的缺額還有709所以代表說\n596264\t625844\t沒有太多的就是你們也招不到適合的人或是也沒有人願意來去調任到那一方面跟委員報告我們要建立智慧監獄用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作所以這個部分我們在105年已經在雲林監獄、嘉峪所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了\n626384\t654374\t那包括我們的科技安全網也在順利的示範當中好 謝謝署長您剛剛的說明那我想進一步請教就是說所以這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺還是說是因為你剛剛有講到嘛現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度去去辦理 去設置相關設備所以也許不需要這麼多人力是因為這個原因嗎不是因為它有題類考試的名額的關係\n656189\t674115\t鐵列考試名額所以沒有太多人來報考沒有太多人來報考的原因報考也是會來報考但是我們也有訓練考訓用之後他在辭職或是商調走的也是有我們平均大概4到5%\n676295\t704263\t因為我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的會不會也是因為跟借戶人力的薪資待遇各方面其實是他的工作的應該說跟待遇比較沒關係因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點因為出任的管理員應該有五萬左右但是問題是我們是高壓的環境我們是管人\n706503\t730809\t而且超時的問題對不對 因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力\n731529\t752597\t醫事人力還有這個新設人力等等我們也看到他的比例非常高以醫事人力來講一位醫生他要照顧303位受刑人你們這個有沒有去跟其他的國家有去做比較在其他國家的監獄裡面的醫事人力還有新設教化人力的比是如此之高嗎\n754268\t772168\t我們沒有醫事院跟外國做比較但是原則上我們現在102人有加入二代健保鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來但是我們醫事院也是在比如在疫情期間確實他們的工作量是加重很重\n772648\t784856\t那我們原則上也會有缺額我們會招考招考外面有一些A病人員他都很願意來簽署這報名考試是領有專業執照的 職業執照的醫生還是說只是一般的公司人員\n791700\t818407\t護理師他願意來監獄報名護士因為我們是監製內他們有時候是約聘人員醫師來講我在民國95年擔任台中藉治所所長的時候有招待一位豐原醫院完醫的醫師我有問他你為什麼願意來藉治所擔任專任醫師他說他是約聘的醫師那我們這邊是工資內工資內比較有保障\n821128\t838569\t現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師現在一位醫師都沒有所以只有我們一位醫師台中介治所應該有一位專任的有一位有嗎 編制內的台中介治所有五位劉護家醫師 因為我印象深刻\n839890\t861634\t不管是一位或是零位啦總之就是全台灣這麼多的監獄看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師然後呢其他最多只有一位嘛那其餘的幾乎就都是以護理師為主所以你們這邊看起來他的工作量很大那麼本席是認為說其實站在就是也是要照顧到受刑人相關的健康權利的立場上我認為你們應該有必要要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的\n869215\t895451\t要強化醫事人力跟這個新設人力那麼另外就說在教化人力的部分呢因為看到一些新聞媒體報導也有講說這個教化人員基本上都是他是從基層的預證人員然後再升到教化人員但是教化人員的工作量很大但是他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼對不對你們之前有說要去這個要去制定有關於圍牢\n896351\t920523\t危老的今天,那現在這部分呢?進度如何?危老的今天,人種可能會矯正署跟海巡署並同處理但是教化人員,他不是介入人員他不能領危老的今天,他不會晚上去執勤他是日勤人員另外跟委員報告,我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師包括藥劑師、醫檢師,這些都是醫事人員\n924525\t950408\t好 但是本席這邊提醒就是說第一個一是人力看起來現在的他的照顧比過高一比三百多然後另外就是在教化人力的教化人員的部分那麼雖然說他可能不是屬於危險危牢因為他可能晚上不需要去加班但是確實是也是有過勞的問題因為很多教化人員現在說只要看到法院官的判決書上面寫說有教化可能\n951269\t979034\t那他們呢就是做死做活就是就是他們非常辛苦了就是做很多的工作平均一個人要輔導上百名或是到上千名的受信人的一些教化工作我覺得這個基本上來說都是對於矯正的管理上面會出現很大的問題那本席是認為說基本上如果人力充裕那麼基本各個這個預證人員他的壓力就不會那麼的大\n979634\t997307\t那压力大当然会造成情绪不好那难免也会发生一些可能就是预证人员对于受刑人可能也会有一些暴力的一些问题今天你们的报告书里面主要是谈的是有关于这个收容人员对于职员施暴\n999229\t1006757\t這個案件書我們看到平均每一年有60起的收容人的暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件本身也認為這個確實是這個比例很高啊對於我們的預證教輔人員\n1012819\t1028173\t很辛苦做這樣子的一份高危險性的工作可是我們也不容忽視的就是說這些年也有發生 陸續也有發生就是預證人員 戒護人員反過來他可能有一些不當的行為\n1029475\t1044367\t對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況甚至可能還有性騷擾等等這些的問題所以你們有沒有統計過戒護人員的行為不當\n1046249\t1064441\t這個部分沒有統計沒有特別去統計這都是比較個案的那跟委員報告 委員有提到那個教會師他是目前領政協危險津貼將來我們會針對教化人員的危險津貼再把他增企提高\n1065582\t1089592\t因為今天時間有限那本席呢希望就矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我第一個就是說有關於就是台灣目前現在矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力和新設人力跟其他的國家的矯正機關的相比我們要現在你們已經做了介護人力的比嘛那另外但是在醫事人力跟\n1091273\t1108330\t這個其他兩種其他總共三種類型的人力的相比較那我們來看看台灣的嚴重的狀況是如何這是第一份這個資料那麼第二份呢本席希望你們也能夠提供在這些年來要不然就是近十年來就是我們的預證人員\n1110592\t1134864\t反過來對於收容人所實施的這種暴力行為的案子雖然剛剛所長說是個案但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來要讓大家知道而且這個也是可以反過來讓我們去思考就是獄政的管理來如何讓它更合理化然後更妥當\n1136781\t1163126\t報告委員 我們在不妨礙到各自的前提下我們來努力處理就是麻煩人可以去識別化 姓名可以去識別化但是呢 比較重要就是要知道說到底是什麼樣的行為太陽那我認為說這個是可以讓我們的預證更為進步在管理上面可以更為進步是不是可以麻煩 因為資料不是那麼急可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內可以提供給我 好嗎\n1163786\t1170915\t可不可以一個月可以啊 一個月那就麻煩你們一個月之內就把這兩份資料給我好的 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席先有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長麻煩副秘你好王副秘你好我想今天大家都在討論有關於就是\n要被監察院的还有针对监察委员之前因为可能疑似有来用公务车的这样的一个问题来进行讨论那我刚刚有听到黄珊珊委员有提示就是监察院要提出监察委员行为法的相关的\n這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎\n目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡\n法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好 本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的\n而且我仔細的看過監察委員自律規範他跟立法委員的行為法最大的不同就在於說對於違法失職的監察委員他沒有處罰的效果你們現在如果說是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼\n他可以他可以經過調查然後可以彈劾也可以移送司法機關檢調然後呢除此之外呢可以罰還嗎如果移送彈劾移送彈劾經過經過彈劾審查會通過以後那目前的懲戒規範就有九種所以還是要移送彈劾懲戒規範嗎可以停權嗎\n目前是没有这样子的选项是这就是我为什么提出监察委员行为法草案的问题因为本席认为说目前现在监察委员自律规范里面所规范的相关的法律效果其实是很弱的\n只是口頭申戒然後遇到事情然後移送法辦這每一個行政官員如果說有違法失職的話其實他依法他就要移送這個刑事的法辦或者是移送公務員懲戒這是一般的這個政府官員公務員都會碰到的都會適用的相關規定可是監察委員他不一樣嘛\n過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的\n所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束\n就是跟委員說明一下那監察院跟立法院當然性質是完全不相同那就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表就是不包括立法委員這樣子然後另外我們也有稍微研究了一下\n各個憲政機關各個憲政機關比如說像司法院比如說像考試院他們其實也都是用自律規範來處理內部就是委員的這樣子的一個自律的情勢王副秘書長我在這邊我們不用再去針對這個五權的機關他們的各有的職長他們的性質都不盡相同監察委員\n过去我们还称之为他不是古代叫称之为御史大夫要非常的清廉然后就要洁身自爱现在的建厂委员是这样吗\n所以我認為說是有必要提升他的法衛階好的 那麼這邊是我剛剛這是因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示所以我這邊要提醒你 其實本期早就已經提案了好 那謝謝你 請回那接下來我要請矯正署周署長待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長\n我要請教周署長因為我們今天主要是談的是有關於育政人員管理的一些問題那麼在去年11月的時候曾經有發生一起在高雄女子監獄的女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎這位女科長是不是真的是因為工作過勞而輕生\n是 我們有調查他本身是一個基督教徒然後他也有責任感很有責任感那時候剛好高雄地區發生那個淹水那身為總務科長因為水電\n對堅守來講是很重要的水電場景沒有處理好會產生求情不安求情騷動的問題那他可能也給自己的壓力太大了雖然典議長也有指派秘書秘書也是總務出身的來協助他也有指派副典議長去關心他但是他本身\n我們也是很遺憾她後來雖然她是基督教徒沒有找教友去有點遺憾啦在家裡面是我想這個跟因為剛聽了署長的說明知道說這位女科長西北她是做總務的總務科科長但是呢基於責任感她可能怕擔心沒有辦法處理好她自己的份內的這工作造成監獄的\n這個受刑人也許這個會有騷動但是呢我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出就是在預證管理的部分其實每一個環節都很重要而事實上我們也知道其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面你可以看到我們目前\n這個借戶人力比是偏高而且高很多那麼我們目前矯正機關的核定的容額是60552人但是呢雖然說到目前為止收入人數是59805人可是實際上有許多的矯正機關許多的監獄看守所他們的人數都是超收的\n那麼以本席這邊整理的這個相關的這個監所超收的情形就可以知道像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹、高雄還有監獄他們的超收比例都是高達兩三成台北看守所的超收比率則是達到36%點多這個其實超收的這個\n這個相關的人員過高這一定也會造成戒護人力的吃緊對不對那你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講嘛我們現在的這個戒護人力比看看現在台灣我們是1比11等於說一個戒護人員他要去管理11位受刑人這跟其他的世界的國家相比高到不行耶\n你看看這個美國是1比4.5日本是1比2.3新加坡1比6.5南海是1比3我們是1比11\n請問您對於這件事情認為要怎麼樣去解決呢是 報告委員我們這幾年來總共也有向人總請徵了900多人那麼將來在八德外醫間跟彰化看守所擴建建工程完畢之後大概預估可以增加3459位的容額\n那對於北部中部地區的舒緩絕對有很大的幫助是好您剛剛說你們像人總有提出要增加介護人力的原額900多人但是實際所以現在這些900多人總已經給我們的這幾年但是有補齊嗎沒有嘛你們實際上的缺額還有709所以代表說\n沒有太多的就是你們也招不到適合的人或是也沒有人願意來去調任到那一方面跟委員報告我們要建立智慧監獄用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作所以這個部分我們在105年已經在雲林監獄、嘉峪所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了\n那包括我們的科技安全網也在順利的示範當中好 謝謝署長您剛剛的說明那我想進一步請教就是說所以這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺還是說是因為你剛剛有講到嘛現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度去去辦理 去設置相關設備所以也許不需要這麼多人力是因為這個原因嗎不是因為它有題類考試的名額的關係\n鐵列考試名額所以沒有太多人來報考沒有太多人來報考的原因報考也是會來報考但是我們也有訓練考訓用之後他在辭職或是商調走的也是有我們平均大概4到5%\n因為我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的會不會也是因為跟借戶人力的薪資待遇各方面其實是他的工作的應該說跟待遇比較沒關係因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點因為出任的管理員應該有五萬左右但是問題是我們是高壓的環境我們是管人\n而且超時的問題對不對 因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力\n醫事人力還有這個新設人力等等我們也看到他的比例非常高以醫事人力來講一位醫生他要照顧303位受刑人你們這個有沒有去跟其他的國家有去做比較在其他國家的監獄裡面的醫事人力還有新設教化人力的比是如此之高嗎\n我們沒有醫事院跟外國做比較但是原則上我們現在102人有加入二代健保鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來但是我們醫事院也是在比如在疫情期間確實他們的工作量是加重很重\n那我們原則上也會有缺額我們會招考招考外面有一些A病人員他都很願意來簽署這報名考試是領有專業執照的 職業執照的醫生還是說只是一般的公司人員\n護理師他願意來監獄報名護士因為我們是監製內他們有時候是約聘人員醫師來講我在民國95年擔任台中藉治所所長的時候有招待一位豐原醫院完醫的醫師我有問他你為什麼願意來藉治所擔任專任醫師他說他是約聘的醫師那我們這邊是工資內工資內比較有保障\n現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師現在一位醫師都沒有所以只有我們一位醫師台中介治所應該有一位專任的有一位有嗎 編制內的台中介治所有五位劉護家醫師 因為我印象深刻\n不管是一位或是零位啦總之就是全台灣這麼多的監獄看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師然後呢其他最多只有一位嘛那其餘的幾乎就都是以護理師為主所以你們這邊看起來他的工作量很大那麼本席是認為說其實站在就是也是要照顧到受刑人相關的健康權利的立場上我認為你們應該有必要要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的\n要強化醫事人力跟這個新設人力那麼另外就說在教化人力的部分呢因為看到一些新聞媒體報導也有講說這個教化人員基本上都是他是從基層的預證人員然後再升到教化人員但是教化人員的工作量很大但是他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼對不對你們之前有說要去這個要去制定有關於圍牢\n危老的今天,那現在這部分呢?進度如何?危老的今天,人種可能會矯正署跟海巡署並同處理但是教化人員,他不是介入人員他不能領危老的今天,他不會晚上去執勤他是日勤人員另外跟委員報告,我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師包括藥劑師、醫檢師,這些都是醫事人員\n好 但是本席這邊提醒就是說第一個一是人力看起來現在的他的照顧比過高一比三百多然後另外就是在教化人力的教化人員的部分那麼雖然說他可能不是屬於危險危牢因為他可能晚上不需要去加班但是確實是也是有過勞的問題因為很多教化人員現在說只要看到法院官的判決書上面寫說有教化可能\n那他們呢就是做死做活就是就是他們非常辛苦了就是做很多的工作平均一個人要輔導上百名或是到上千名的受信人的一些教化工作我覺得這個基本上來說都是對於矯正的管理上面會出現很大的問題那本席是認為說基本上如果人力充裕那麼基本各個這個預證人員他的壓力就不會那麼的大\n那压力大当然会造成情绪不好那难免也会发生一些可能就是预证人员对于受刑人可能也会有一些暴力的一些问题今天你们的报告书里面主要是谈的是有关于这个收容人员对于职员施暴\n這個案件書我們看到平均每一年有60起的收容人的暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件本身也認為這個確實是這個比例很高啊對於我們的預證教輔人員\n很辛苦做這樣子的一份高危險性的工作可是我們也不容忽視的就是說這些年也有發生 陸續也有發生就是預證人員 戒護人員反過來他可能有一些不當的行為\n對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況甚至可能還有性騷擾等等這些的問題所以你們有沒有統計過戒護人員的行為不當\n這個部分沒有統計沒有特別去統計這都是比較個案的那跟委員報告 委員有提到那個教會師他是目前領政協危險津貼將來我們會針對教化人員的危險津貼再把他增企提高\n因為今天時間有限那本席呢希望就矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我第一個就是說有關於就是台灣目前現在矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力和新設人力跟其他的國家的矯正機關的相比我們要現在你們已經做了介護人力的比嘛那另外但是在醫事人力跟\n這個其他兩種其他總共三種類型的人力的相比較那我們來看看台灣的嚴重的狀況是如何這是第一份這個資料那麼第二份呢本席希望你們也能夠提供在這些年來要不然就是近十年來就是我們的預證人員\n反過來對於收容人所實施的這種暴力行為的案子雖然剛剛所長說是個案但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來要讓大家知道而且這個也是可以反過來讓我們去思考就是獄政的管理來如何讓它更合理化然後更妥當\n報告委員 我們在不妨礙到各自的前提下我們來努力處理就是麻煩人可以去識別化 姓名可以去識別化但是呢 比較重要就是要知道說到底是什麼樣的行為太陽那我認為說這個是可以讓我們的預證更為進步在管理上面可以更為進步是不是可以麻煩 因為資料不是那麼急可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內可以提供給我 好嗎\n可不可以一個月可以啊 一個月那就麻煩你們一個月之內就把這兩份資料給我好的 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.203 --> 00:30.935\n好謝謝主席先有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長麻煩副秘你好王副秘你好我想今天大家都在討論有關於就是\n\n00:31.650 --> 00:49.609\n要被監察院的还有针对监察委员之前因为可能疑似有来用公务车的这样的一个问题来进行讨论那我刚刚有听到黄珊珊委员有提示就是监察院要提出监察委员行为法的相关的\n\n00:51.150 --> 01:09.370\n這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎\n\n01:11.246 --> 01:37.458\n目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡\n\n01:39.399 --> 02:06.493\n法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的\n\n02:08.203 --> 02:28.926\n而且我仔細的看過監察委員自律規範他跟立法委員的行為法最大的不同就在於說對於違法失職的監察委員他沒有處罰的效果你們現在如果說是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼\n\n02:30.013 --> 02:37.879\n他可以他可以經過調查然後可以彈劾也可以移送司法機關檢調然後呢除此之外呢可以罰還嗎如果移送彈劾移送彈劾經過經過彈劾審查會通過以後那目前的懲戒規範就有九種所以還是要移送彈劾懲戒規範嗎可以停權嗎\n\n02:56.809 --> 03:13.909\n目前是没有这样子的选项是这就是我为什么提出监察委员行为法草案的问题因为本席认为说目前现在监察委员自律规范里面所规范的相关的法律效果其实是很弱的\n\n03:14.369 --> 03:36.272\n只是口頭申戒然後遇到事情然後移送法辦這每一個行政官員如果說有違法失職的話其實他依法他就要移送這個刑事的法辦或者是移送公務員懲戒這是一般的這個政府官員公務員都會碰到的都會適用的相關規定可是監察委員他不一樣嘛\n\n03:37.994 --> 03:54.061\n過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的\n\n03:54.821 --> 04:15.453\n所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束\n\n04:17.145 --> 04:33.713\n就是跟委員說明一下那監察院跟立法院當然性質是完全不相同那就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表就是不包括立法委員這樣子然後另外我們也有稍微研究了一下\n\n04:34.173 --> 05:00.478\n各個憲政機關各個憲政機關比如說像司法院比如說像考試院他們其實也都是用自律規範來處理內部就是委員的這樣子的一個自律的情勢王副秘書長我在這邊我們不用再去針對這個五權的機關他們的各有的職長他們的性質都不盡相同監察委員\n\n05:01.979 --> 05:12.018\n过去我们还称之为他不是古代叫称之为御史大夫要非常的清廉然后就要洁身自爱现在的建厂委员是这样吗\n\n05:13.203 --> 05:36.077\n所以我認為說是有必要提升他的法衛階好的那麼這邊是我剛剛這是因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示所以我這邊要提醒你其實本期早就已經提案了好那謝謝你請回那接下來我要請矯正署周署長待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長\n\n05:42.281 --> 06:07.889\n我要請教周署長因為我們今天主要是談的是有關於育政人員管理的一些問題那麼在去年11月的時候曾經有發生一起在高雄女子監獄的女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎這位女科長是不是真的是因為工作過勞而輕生\n\n06:10.869 --> 06:26.159\n是我們有調查他本身是一個基督教徒然後他也有責任感很有責任感那時候剛好高雄地區發生那個淹水那身為總務科長因為水電\n\n06:29.662 --> 06:52.964\n對堅守來講是很重要的水電場景沒有處理好會產生求情不安求情騷動的問題那他可能也給自己的壓力太大了雖然典議長也有指派秘書秘書也是總務出身的來協助他也有指派副典議長去關心他但是他本身\n\n06:53.985 --> 07:20.140\n我們也是很遺憾她後來雖然她是基督教徒沒有找教友去有點遺憾啦在家裡面是我想這個跟因為剛聽了署長的說明知道說這位女科長西北她是做總務的總務科科長但是呢基於責任感她可能怕擔心沒有辦法處理好她自己的份內的這工作造成監獄的\n\n07:21.594 --> 07:37.855\n這個受刑人也許這個會有騷動但是呢我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出就是在預證管理的部分其實每一個環節都很重要而事實上我們也知道其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面你可以看到我們目前\n\n07:39.677 --> 08:02.217\n這個借戶人力比是偏高而且高很多那麼我們目前矯正機關的核定的容額是60552人但是呢雖然說到目前為止收入人數是59805人可是實際上有許多的矯正機關許多的監獄看守所他們的人數都是超收的\n\n08:03.478 --> 08:20.811\n那麼以本席這邊整理的這個相關的這個監所超收的情形就可以知道像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹、高雄還有監獄他們的超收比例都是高達兩三成台北看守所的超收比率則是達到36%點多這個其實超收的這個\n\n08:27.471 --> 08:52.967\n這個相關的人員過高這一定也會造成戒護人力的吃緊對不對那你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講嘛我們現在的這個戒護人力比看看現在台灣我們是1比11等於說一個戒護人員他要去管理11位受刑人這跟其他的世界的國家相比高到不行耶\n\n08:54.489 --> 09:03.414\n你看看這個美國是1比4.5日本是1比2.3新加坡1比6.5南海是1比3我們是1比11\n\n09:06.637 --> 09:28.348\n請問您對於這件事情認為要怎麼樣去解決呢是報告委員我們這幾年來總共也有向人總請徵了900多人那麼將來在八德外醫間跟彰化看守所擴建建工程完畢之後大概預估可以增加3459位的容額\n\n09:31.630 --> 09:47.619\n那對於北部中部地區的舒緩絕對有很大的幫助是好您剛剛說你們像人總有提出要增加介護人力的原額900多人但是實際所以現在這些900多人總已經給我們的這幾年但是有補齊嗎沒有嘛你們實際上的缺額還有709所以代表說\n\n09:56.264 --> 10:25.844\n沒有太多的就是你們也招不到適合的人或是也沒有人願意來去調任到那一方面跟委員報告我們要建立智慧監獄用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作所以這個部分我們在105年已經在雲林監獄、嘉峪所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了\n\n10:26.384 --> 10:54.374\n那包括我們的科技安全網也在順利的示範當中好謝謝署長您剛剛的說明那我想進一步請教就是說所以這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺還是說是因為你剛剛有講到嘛現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度去去辦理去設置相關設備所以也許不需要這麼多人力是因為這個原因嗎不是因為它有題類考試的名額的關係\n\n10:56.189 --> 11:14.115\n鐵列考試名額所以沒有太多人來報考沒有太多人來報考的原因報考也是會來報考但是我們也有訓練考訓用之後他在辭職或是商調走的也是有我們平均大概4到5%\n\n11:16.295 --> 11:44.263\n因為我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的會不會也是因為跟借戶人力的薪資待遇各方面其實是他的工作的應該說跟待遇比較沒關係因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點因為出任的管理員應該有五萬左右但是問題是我們是高壓的環境我們是管人\n\n11:46.503 --> 12:10.809\n而且超時的問題對不對因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力\n\n12:11.529 --> 12:32.597\n醫事人力還有這個新設人力等等我們也看到他的比例非常高以醫事人力來講一位醫生他要照顧303位受刑人你們這個有沒有去跟其他的國家有去做比較在其他國家的監獄裡面的醫事人力還有新設教化人力的比是如此之高嗎\n\n12:34.268 --> 12:52.168\n我們沒有醫事院跟外國做比較但是原則上我們現在102人有加入二代健保鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來但是我們醫事院也是在比如在疫情期間確實他們的工作量是加重很重\n\n12:52.648 --> 13:04.856\n那我們原則上也會有缺額我們會招考招考外面有一些A病人員他都很願意來簽署這報名考試是領有專業執照的職業執照的醫生還是說只是一般的公司人員\n\n13:11.700 --> 13:38.407\n護理師他願意來監獄報名護士因為我們是監製內他們有時候是約聘人員醫師來講我在民國95年擔任台中藉治所所長的時候有招待一位豐原醫院完醫的醫師我有問他你為什麼願意來藉治所擔任專任醫師他說他是約聘的醫師那我們這邊是工資內工資內比較有保障\n\n13:41.128 --> 13:58.569\n現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師現在一位醫師都沒有所以只有我們一位醫師台中介治所應該有一位專任的有一位有嗎編制內的台中介治所有五位劉護家醫師因為我印象深刻\n\n13:59.890 --> 14:21.634\n不管是一位或是零位啦總之就是全台灣這麼多的監獄看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師然後呢其他最多只有一位嘛那其餘的幾乎就都是以護理師為主所以你們這邊看起來他的工作量很大那麼本席是認為說其實站在就是也是要照顧到受刑人相關的健康權利的立場上我認為你們應該有必要要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的\n\n14:29.215 --> 14:55.451\n要強化醫事人力跟這個新設人力那麼另外就說在教化人力的部分呢因為看到一些新聞媒體報導也有講說這個教化人員基本上都是他是從基層的預證人員然後再升到教化人員但是教化人員的工作量很大但是他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼對不對你們之前有說要去這個要去制定有關於圍牢\n\n14:56.351 --> 15:20.523\n危老的今天,那現在這部分呢?進度如何?危老的今天,人種可能會矯正署跟海巡署並同處理但是教化人員,他不是介入人員他不能領危老的今天,他不會晚上去執勤他是日勤人員另外跟委員報告,我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師包括藥劑師、醫檢師,這些都是醫事人員\n\n15:24.525 --> 15:50.408\n好但是本席這邊提醒就是說第一個一是人力看起來現在的他的照顧比過高一比三百多然後另外就是在教化人力的教化人員的部分那麼雖然說他可能不是屬於危險危牢因為他可能晚上不需要去加班但是確實是也是有過勞的問題因為很多教化人員現在說只要看到法院官的判決書上面寫說有教化可能\n\n15:51.269 --> 16:19.034\n那他們呢就是做死做活就是就是他們非常辛苦了就是做很多的工作平均一個人要輔導上百名或是到上千名的受信人的一些教化工作我覺得這個基本上來說都是對於矯正的管理上面會出現很大的問題那本席是認為說基本上如果人力充裕那麼基本各個這個預證人員他的壓力就不會那麼的大\n\n16:19.634 --> 16:37.307\n那压力大当然会造成情绪不好那难免也会发生一些可能就是预证人员对于受刑人可能也会有一些暴力的一些问题今天你们的报告书里面主要是谈的是有关于这个收容人员对于职员施暴\n\n16:39.229 --> 16:46.757\n這個案件書我們看到平均每一年有60起的收容人的暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件本身也認為這個確實是這個比例很高啊對於我們的預證教輔人員\n\n16:52.819 --> 17:08.173\n很辛苦做這樣子的一份高危險性的工作可是我們也不容忽視的就是說這些年也有發生陸續也有發生就是預證人員戒護人員反過來他可能有一些不當的行為\n\n17:09.475 --> 17:24.367\n對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況甚至可能還有性騷擾等等這些的問題所以你們有沒有統計過戒護人員的行為不當\n\n17:26.249 --> 17:44.441\n這個部分沒有統計沒有特別去統計這都是比較個案的那跟委員報告委員有提到那個教會師他是目前領政協危險津貼將來我們會針對教化人員的危險津貼再把他增企提高\n\n17:45.582 --> 18:09.592\n因為今天時間有限那本席呢希望就矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我第一個就是說有關於就是台灣目前現在矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力和新設人力跟其他的國家的矯正機關的相比我們要現在你們已經做了介護人力的比嘛那另外但是在醫事人力跟\n\n18:11.273 --> 18:28.330\n這個其他兩種其他總共三種類型的人力的相比較那我們來看看台灣的嚴重的狀況是如何這是第一份這個資料那麼第二份呢本席希望你們也能夠提供在這些年來要不然就是近十年來就是我們的預證人員\n\n18:30.592 --> 18:54.864\n反過來對於收容人所實施的這種暴力行為的案子雖然剛剛所長說是個案但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來要讓大家知道而且這個也是可以反過來讓我們去思考就是獄政的管理來如何讓它更合理化然後更妥當\n\n18:56.781 --> 19:23.126\n報告委員我們在不妨礙到各自的前提下我們來努力處理就是麻煩人可以去識別化姓名可以去識別化但是呢比較重要就是要知道說到底是什麼樣的行為太陽那我認為說這個是可以讓我們的預證更為進步在管理上面可以更為進步是不是可以麻煩因為資料不是那麼急可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內可以提供給我好嗎\n\n19:23.786 --> 19:30.915\n可不可以一個月可以啊一個月那就麻煩你們一個月之內就把這兩份資料給我好的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.203,"end":30.935,"text":"好謝謝主席先有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長麻煩副秘你好王副秘你好我想今天大家都在討論有關於就是"},{"start":31.65,"end":49.609,"text":"要被監察院的还有针对监察委员之前因为可能疑似有来用公务车的这样的一个问题来进行讨论那我刚刚有听到黄珊珊委员有提示就是监察院要提出监察委员行为法的相关的"},{"start":51.15,"end":69.37,"text":"這個修法因為現在目前針對監察委員的行為只是規定在一個自律規範裡面但是它並不是一個法的位階我想請教王副秘書長您對於就是提升監察委員的自律規範是法的位階您認為有這個必要嗎"},{"start":71.246,"end":97.458,"text":"目前就是監察院沒有監察委員行為法可是我們有自律規範其實監察委員自律規範是目前運作上來講都沒有任何摯愛因為監察委員目前只有自律規範還沒有行為法但是我們立法委員我們有行為法你們有去比較過立法委員行為法跟監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡"},{"start":99.399,"end":126.493,"text":"法的位階是不相同的還有內容呢我沒有比較過好 本席要這邊提示妳我在去年當任立法委員的第一個會期我就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案我不能說我有先見之明但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只是透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的"},{"start":128.203,"end":148.926,"text":"而且我仔細的看過監察委員自律規範他跟立法委員的行為法最大的不同就在於說對於違法失職的監察委員他沒有處罰的效果你們現在如果說是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼"},{"start":150.013,"end":157.879,"text":"他可以他可以經過調查然後可以彈劾也可以移送司法機關檢調然後呢除此之外呢可以罰還嗎如果移送彈劾移送彈劾經過經過彈劾審查會通過以後那目前的懲戒規範就有九種所以還是要移送彈劾懲戒規範嗎可以停權嗎"},{"start":176.809,"end":193.909,"text":"目前是没有这样子的选项是这就是我为什么提出监察委员行为法草案的问题因为本席认为说目前现在监察委员自律规范里面所规范的相关的法律效果其实是很弱的"},{"start":194.369,"end":216.272,"text":"只是口頭申戒然後遇到事情然後移送法辦這每一個行政官員如果說有違法失職的話其實他依法他就要移送這個刑事的法辦或者是移送公務員懲戒這是一般的這個政府官員公務員都會碰到的都會適用的相關規定可是監察委員他不一樣嘛"},{"start":217.994,"end":234.061,"text":"過去我們認為說它是一個民意機關相當於立法院它都是屬於國會的性質那麼既然如此立法委員有立法委員行為法那當然監察委員也有監察委員行為法而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的"},{"start":234.821,"end":255.453,"text":"所以本席在這裡也呼應黃珊珊委員基本上我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案雖然說本席已經提了啦就是看到時候看本會司法法律委員會要不要也要排相關的法案否則的話對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束"},{"start":257.145,"end":273.713,"text":"就是跟委員說明一下那監察院跟立法院當然性質是完全不相同那就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表就是不包括立法委員這樣子然後另外我們也有稍微研究了一下"},{"start":274.173,"end":300.478,"text":"各個憲政機關各個憲政機關比如說像司法院比如說像考試院他們其實也都是用自律規範來處理內部就是委員的這樣子的一個自律的情勢王副秘書長我在這邊我們不用再去針對這個五權的機關他們的各有的職長他們的性質都不盡相同監察委員"},{"start":301.979,"end":312.018,"text":"过去我们还称之为他不是古代叫称之为御史大夫要非常的清廉然后就要洁身自爱现在的建厂委员是这样吗"},{"start":313.203,"end":336.077,"text":"所以我認為說是有必要提升他的法衛階好的 那麼這邊是我剛剛這是因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示所以我這邊要提醒你 其實本期早就已經提案了好 那謝謝你 請回那接下來我要請矯正署周署長待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長"},{"start":342.281,"end":367.889,"text":"我要請教周署長因為我們今天主要是談的是有關於育政人員管理的一些問題那麼在去年11月的時候曾經有發生一起在高雄女子監獄的女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎這位女科長是不是真的是因為工作過勞而輕生"},{"start":370.869,"end":386.159,"text":"是 我們有調查他本身是一個基督教徒然後他也有責任感很有責任感那時候剛好高雄地區發生那個淹水那身為總務科長因為水電"},{"start":389.662,"end":412.964,"text":"對堅守來講是很重要的水電場景沒有處理好會產生求情不安求情騷動的問題那他可能也給自己的壓力太大了雖然典議長也有指派秘書秘書也是總務出身的來協助他也有指派副典議長去關心他但是他本身"},{"start":413.985,"end":440.14,"text":"我們也是很遺憾她後來雖然她是基督教徒沒有找教友去有點遺憾啦在家裡面是我想這個跟因為剛聽了署長的說明知道說這位女科長西北她是做總務的總務科科長但是呢基於責任感她可能怕擔心沒有辦法處理好她自己的份內的這工作造成監獄的"},{"start":441.594,"end":457.855,"text":"這個受刑人也許這個會有騷動但是呢我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出就是在預證管理的部分其實每一個環節都很重要而事實上我們也知道其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面你可以看到我們目前"},{"start":459.677,"end":482.217,"text":"這個借戶人力比是偏高而且高很多那麼我們目前矯正機關的核定的容額是60552人但是呢雖然說到目前為止收入人數是59805人可是實際上有許多的矯正機關許多的監獄看守所他們的人數都是超收的"},{"start":483.478,"end":500.811,"text":"那麼以本席這邊整理的這個相關的這個監所超收的情形就可以知道像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹、高雄還有監獄他們的超收比例都是高達兩三成台北看守所的超收比率則是達到36%點多這個其實超收的這個"},{"start":507.471,"end":532.967,"text":"這個相關的人員過高這一定也會造成戒護人力的吃緊對不對那你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講嘛我們現在的這個戒護人力比看看現在台灣我們是1比11等於說一個戒護人員他要去管理11位受刑人這跟其他的世界的國家相比高到不行耶"},{"start":534.489,"end":543.414,"text":"你看看這個美國是1比4.5日本是1比2.3新加坡1比6.5南海是1比3我們是1比11"},{"start":546.637,"end":568.348,"text":"請問您對於這件事情認為要怎麼樣去解決呢是 報告委員我們這幾年來總共也有向人總請徵了900多人那麼將來在八德外醫間跟彰化看守所擴建建工程完畢之後大概預估可以增加3459位的容額"},{"start":571.63,"end":587.619,"text":"那對於北部中部地區的舒緩絕對有很大的幫助是好您剛剛說你們像人總有提出要增加介護人力的原額900多人但是實際所以現在這些900多人總已經給我們的這幾年但是有補齊嗎沒有嘛你們實際上的缺額還有709所以代表說"},{"start":596.264,"end":625.844,"text":"沒有太多的就是你們也招不到適合的人或是也沒有人願意來去調任到那一方面跟委員報告我們要建立智慧監獄用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作所以這個部分我們在105年已經在雲林監獄、嘉峪所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了"},{"start":626.384,"end":654.374,"text":"那包括我們的科技安全網也在順利的示範當中好 謝謝署長您剛剛的說明那我想進一步請教就是說所以這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺還是說是因為你剛剛有講到嘛現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度去去辦理 去設置相關設備所以也許不需要這麼多人力是因為這個原因嗎不是因為它有題類考試的名額的關係"},{"start":656.189,"end":674.115,"text":"鐵列考試名額所以沒有太多人來報考沒有太多人來報考的原因報考也是會來報考但是我們也有訓練考訓用之後他在辭職或是商調走的也是有我們平均大概4到5%"},{"start":676.295,"end":704.263,"text":"因為我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的會不會也是因為跟借戶人力的薪資待遇各方面其實是他的工作的應該說跟待遇比較沒關係因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點因為出任的管理員應該有五萬左右但是問題是我們是高壓的環境我們是管人"},{"start":706.503,"end":730.809,"text":"而且超時的問題對不對 因為這是也看到就是有一群基層預證人員他們由此反映他們可能工時25小時但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費那剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時那除了戒護人力之外另外因為在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是叫化人力"},{"start":731.529,"end":752.597,"text":"醫事人力還有這個新設人力等等我們也看到他的比例非常高以醫事人力來講一位醫生他要照顧303位受刑人你們這個有沒有去跟其他的國家有去做比較在其他國家的監獄裡面的醫事人力還有新設教化人力的比是如此之高嗎"},{"start":754.268,"end":772.168,"text":"我們沒有醫事院跟外國做比較但是原則上我們現在102人有加入二代健保鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來但是我們醫事院也是在比如在疫情期間確實他們的工作量是加重很重"},{"start":772.648,"end":784.856,"text":"那我們原則上也會有缺額我們會招考招考外面有一些A病人員他都很願意來簽署這報名考試是領有專業執照的 職業執照的醫生還是說只是一般的公司人員"},{"start":791.7,"end":818.407,"text":"護理師他願意來監獄報名護士因為我們是監製內他們有時候是約聘人員醫師來講我在民國95年擔任台中藉治所所長的時候有招待一位豐原醫院完醫的醫師我有問他你為什麼願意來藉治所擔任專任醫師他說他是約聘的醫師那我們這邊是工資內工資內比較有保障"},{"start":821.128,"end":838.569,"text":"現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師現在一位醫師都沒有所以只有我們一位醫師台中介治所應該有一位專任的有一位有嗎 編制內的台中介治所有五位劉護家醫師 因為我印象深刻"},{"start":839.89,"end":861.634,"text":"不管是一位或是零位啦總之就是全台灣這麼多的監獄看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師然後呢其他最多只有一位嘛那其餘的幾乎就都是以護理師為主所以你們這邊看起來他的工作量很大那麼本席是認為說其實站在就是也是要照顧到受刑人相關的健康權利的立場上我認為你們應該有必要要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的"},{"start":869.215,"end":895.451,"text":"要強化醫事人力跟這個新設人力那麼另外就說在教化人力的部分呢因為看到一些新聞媒體報導也有講說這個教化人員基本上都是他是從基層的預證人員然後再升到教化人員但是教化人員的工作量很大但是他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼對不對你們之前有說要去這個要去制定有關於圍牢"},{"start":896.351,"end":920.523,"text":"危老的今天,那現在這部分呢?進度如何?危老的今天,人種可能會矯正署跟海巡署並同處理但是教化人員,他不是介入人員他不能領危老的今天,他不會晚上去執勤他是日勤人員另外跟委員報告,我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師包括藥劑師、醫檢師,這些都是醫事人員"},{"start":924.525,"end":950.408,"text":"好 但是本席這邊提醒就是說第一個一是人力看起來現在的他的照顧比過高一比三百多然後另外就是在教化人力的教化人員的部分那麼雖然說他可能不是屬於危險危牢因為他可能晚上不需要去加班但是確實是也是有過勞的問題因為很多教化人員現在說只要看到法院官的判決書上面寫說有教化可能"},{"start":951.269,"end":979.034,"text":"那他們呢就是做死做活就是就是他們非常辛苦了就是做很多的工作平均一個人要輔導上百名或是到上千名的受信人的一些教化工作我覺得這個基本上來說都是對於矯正的管理上面會出現很大的問題那本席是認為說基本上如果人力充裕那麼基本各個這個預證人員他的壓力就不會那麼的大"},{"start":979.634,"end":997.307,"text":"那压力大当然会造成情绪不好那难免也会发生一些可能就是预证人员对于受刑人可能也会有一些暴力的一些问题今天你们的报告书里面主要是谈的是有关于这个收容人员对于职员施暴"},{"start":999.229,"end":1006.757,"text":"這個案件書我們看到平均每一年有60起的收容人的暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件本身也認為這個確實是這個比例很高啊對於我們的預證教輔人員"},{"start":1012.819,"end":1028.173,"text":"很辛苦做這樣子的一份高危險性的工作可是我們也不容忽視的就是說這些年也有發生 陸續也有發生就是預證人員 戒護人員反過來他可能有一些不當的行為"},{"start":1029.475,"end":1044.367,"text":"對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況甚至可能還有性騷擾等等這些的問題所以你們有沒有統計過戒護人員的行為不當"},{"start":1046.249,"end":1064.441,"text":"這個部分沒有統計沒有特別去統計這都是比較個案的那跟委員報告 委員有提到那個教會師他是目前領政協危險津貼將來我們會針對教化人員的危險津貼再把他增企提高"},{"start":1065.582,"end":1089.592,"text":"因為今天時間有限那本席呢希望就矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我第一個就是說有關於就是台灣目前現在矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力和新設人力跟其他的國家的矯正機關的相比我們要現在你們已經做了介護人力的比嘛那另外但是在醫事人力跟"},{"start":1091.273,"end":1108.33,"text":"這個其他兩種其他總共三種類型的人力的相比較那我們來看看台灣的嚴重的狀況是如何這是第一份這個資料那麼第二份呢本席希望你們也能夠提供在這些年來要不然就是近十年來就是我們的預證人員"},{"start":1110.592,"end":1134.864,"text":"反過來對於收容人所實施的這種暴力行為的案子雖然剛剛所長說是個案但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來要讓大家知道而且這個也是可以反過來讓我們去思考就是獄政的管理來如何讓它更合理化然後更妥當"},{"start":1136.781,"end":1163.126,"text":"報告委員 我們在不妨礙到各自的前提下我們來努力處理就是麻煩人可以去識別化 姓名可以去識別化但是呢 比較重要就是要知道說到底是什麼樣的行為太陽那我認為說這個是可以讓我們的預證更為進步在管理上面可以更為進步是不是可以麻煩 因為資料不是那麼急可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內可以提供給我 好嗎"},{"start":1163.786,"end":1170.915,"text":"可不可以一個月可以啊 一個月那就麻煩你們一個月之內就把這兩份資料給我好的 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1174,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（12時42分）謝謝主席，先有請監察院王副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘。"],["王副秘書長增華：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：王副秘你好。我想今天大家都在討論有關於要廢監察院，還有針對監察委員之前可能疑似有濫用公務車這樣一個問題進行討論。我剛剛有聽到黃珊珊委員有提示，監察院要提出監察委員行為法相關的修法，因為現在針對監察委員的行為只是規定在自律規範裡面，但是它並不是個法的位階。我想請教王副秘書長，對於提升監察委員的自律規範至法的位階，您認為有這個必要嗎？"],["王副秘書長增華：目前監察院沒有監察委員行為法，可是我們有自律規範，其實監察委員自律規範目前運作上來講，都沒有任何窒礙、沒有問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：監察委員目前只有自律規範，還沒有行為法，但是我們立法委員有行為法，你們有去比較過立法委員行為法與監察院的自律規範最大的不同在哪裡嗎？"],["王副秘書長增華：法的位階是不相同的。"],["翁委員曉玲：還有內容呢？"],["王副秘書長增華：我沒有比較過。"],["翁委員曉玲：本席要提示你，我在去年擔任立法委員的第一個會期就已經提出了監察委員行為法草案，我不能說我有先見之明，但是我確實是認為監察委員的相關行為只透過一個自律規範去約束是不夠的，而且我仔細看過監察委員自律規範與立法委員行為法最大的不同就在於，對於違法失職的監察委員它沒有處罰的效果。現在如果是監察委員違反自律規範最嚴重的處罰效果是什麼？"],["王副秘書長增華：他可以經過調查，然後可以彈劾，也可以移送司法機關檢調。"],["翁委員曉玲：然後呢？除此之外呢？可以處罰鍰嗎？"],["王副秘書長增華：如果移送彈劾，經過彈劾審查會通過以後，目前的懲戒規範就有9種的……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以還是要移送彈劾，懲戒規範嘛！"],["王副秘書長增華：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：可以停權嗎？"],["王副秘書長增華：目前沒有這樣的選項。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，這就是我為什麼提出監察委員行為法草案的問題，因為本席認為目前監察委員自律規範裡面所規範的相關法律效果其實是很弱的，只是口頭申誡，遇到事情移送法辦。每一個行政官員如果有違法失職的話，其實依法他就要移送刑事法辦，或者是移送公務員懲戒，這是一般的政府官員、公務員都會碰到的、都會適用的相關規定。可是監察委員他不一樣嘛！過去我們認為他是一個民意機關，相當於立法院，都具有國會的性質，既然如此，立法委員有立法委員行為法，當然監察委員也要有監察委員行為法，而且我認為這個其實是有必要要提出來的，所以本席在這裡呼應黃珊珊委員，基本上，我希望監察院能夠儘速提出監察委員行為法草案，雖然本席已經提了，到時候看本會司法及法制委員會要不要也排相關的法案，否則的話，對於現在監察委員的行為根本沒有一個強而有力的約束。"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明一下，監察院跟立法院當然性質完全不相同，就像監察院職權行使的對象完全不包括中央民意代表，就是不包括立法委員。另外我們也有稍微研究了一下各個憲政機關，比如說像司法院，比如說像考試院，他們其實也都是用自律規範處理內部委員自律的情事。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，王副秘書長，在這邊我們不用再去針對五權機關各有的職掌，畢竟他們的性質都不盡相同。監察委員過去我們還稱他們是……古代稱之為御史大夫，要非常的清廉，然後要潔身自愛，現在的監察委員是這樣嗎？所以我認為有必要提升它的法位階。好的，我剛剛因為順著黃珊珊委員的提示，所以我這邊要提醒你，其實本席早就已經提案了，謝謝你，請回。","接下來我要請矯正署周署長，待會如果有必要的話再麻煩鄭部長。"],["周署長輝煌：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：我要請教周署長，我們今天主要談的是有關於獄政人員管理的一些問題。在去年11月的時候，曾經有發生一起高雄女子監獄女科長疑似因為工作壓力過大而輕生的事情，請問這件事情後來矯正署有做後續的調查嗎？這位女科長是不是真的因為工作過勞而輕生？"],["周署長輝煌：是，我們有調查。他本身是一個基督教徒，然後他也很有責任感，那時候剛好高雄地區發生淹水，身為總務科長，因為水電對監所來講是很重要的，水電長期沒有處理好會產生囚情不安、囚情騷動的問題，他可能給自己的壓力太大了。雖然典獄長有指派秘書來協助他，秘書也是總務出身的，也有指派副典獄長去關心他，但是他本身……我們也是很遺憾，雖然他是基督教徒，沒有找教友去……有點遺憾！他後來在家裡面上吊。"],["翁委員曉玲：我剛剛聽了署長的說明，知道這位女科長基本上是做總務的總務科科長，基於責任感，他可能擔心怕沒有辦法處理好自己份內的工作，造成監獄的受刑人也許會有騷動。我覺得從這件事情也可以凸顯出獄政管理的部分每一個環節都很重要，事實上我們也知道，其實從你們今天做的這份報告書裡面可以看到，目前戒護人力比偏高，而且高很多。目前矯正機關的核定容額是6萬552人，雖然說到目前為止收容人數是5萬9,805人，可是實際上有許多矯正機關、許多監獄看守所的人數都是超收的，以本席這邊整理的相關監所超收情形就可以知道，像桃園監獄、桃園女子監獄、新竹監獄、高雄監獄的超收比例都是高達兩、三成，臺北看守所的超收比率則是達到百分之三十六點多，其實超收的比率過高，這一定也會造成戒護人力吃緊。你們自己在今天的報告書裡面都有講，看看我們現在的戒護人力比，臺灣是1比11，等於一個戒護人員要去管理11位受刑人，這跟世界其他國家相比，高到不行。你看看，美國是1比4.5，日本是1比2.3，新加坡1比6.5，南韓是1比3，而我們是1比11。署長，對於這件事情，您認為要怎麼樣去解決呢？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們這幾年來向人總請增了總共九百多人，將來在八德外役監跟彰化看守所擴遷建工程完畢之後，預估可以增加大概3,459位的容額，對於北部、中部地區的紓緩絕對有很大的幫助。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。您剛剛說你們有向人總提出要增加戒護人力的員額九百多人，所以現在這些九百多位、913位……"],["周署長輝煌：人總已經給我們了。"],["翁委員曉玲：已經給你們了，但是有補齊嗎？沒有嘛，你們實際的缺額還有709位。"],["周署長輝煌：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：代表你們也招不到適合的人，或是也沒有人願意調任到……"],["周署長輝煌：跟委員報告，我們要建立智慧監獄，用智慧監控的部分來做一些人力更有效率的運作。這個部分於105年，在雲林監獄所、嘉義看守所跟屏東看守所已經有一個雛形了，包括我們的科技安全網也在順利地試辦當中。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝署長剛剛的說明。我想進一步請教，這實際的缺額709名是矯正機關故意不開缺，還是因為你剛剛有講到，現在要朝向智慧監獄的角度辦理、設置相關設備，所以也許不需要這麼多人力，是因為這個原因嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：不是，因為有提列考試名額的關係。"],["翁委員曉玲：提列考試名額，所以沒有太多人來報考？"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以原因是沒有太多人來報考？"],["周署長輝煌：報考也是會來報考，但是我們也有訓練、考訓用之後辭職或是商調走的，也是有，平均大概是4%到5%。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我有看到你們商調的比例蠻高的，為什麼會有這樣的問題？會不會也是跟戒護人力的薪資待遇、各方面等有關，就是他工作的……"],["周署長輝煌：應該說跟待遇比較沒關係，因為我們的待遇比一般公務員稍微高一點，初任的管理員應該也有5萬左右，問題是我們是高壓的環境，我們是管人，這些人都是比較……"],["翁委員曉玲：就是工作高壓嘛，然後辛苦，而且有超時的問題。"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為也看到有一群基層獄政人員有此反映，他們可能工時25小時，但實際上他們可能只能領16個小時加班費，剩下的時間基本上也不能領工時。除了戒護人力之外，在你們的報告書裡面有提到像是教化人力、醫事人力，還有心社人力等等，我們也看到比例非常高。以醫事人力來講，一位醫生要照顧303位受刑人，這個部分你們有沒有去跟其他國家比較，在其他國家的監獄裡面醫事人力還有心社、教化人力的比是如此之高嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：醫事人員我們沒有跟外國比較，但是在102年有加入二代健保，鄰近的監所也會有相關的看診進來，但是我們醫事人員在疫情期間，確實他的工作量加重很多。原則上有缺額，我們會招考，外面有一些約聘人員都很願意來監所報名考試。"],["翁委員曉玲：是領有專業執照、職業執照的醫生，還是說只是一般的醫事人員？"],["周署長輝煌：比如說護理師願意來監獄報名護士，因為我們是編制內，他們有的是約聘人員；以醫師來講，我在民國95年擔任臺中戒治所所長的時候，有招到唯一一位醫師，是來自豐原醫院。我有問他，你為什麼願意來戒治所擔任專任醫師，他說他是約聘的醫師，而我們這邊是編制內，編制內比較有保障。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在監獄裡面有幾位醫師？"],["周署長輝煌：零，現在……"],["翁委員曉玲：現在一位醫師都沒有，所以只有護理師。"],["周署長輝煌：臺中戒治所應該有一位，專任的有一位。"],["翁委員曉玲：有嗎？編制內的，臺中監獄只有一位。"],["周署長輝煌：臺中戒治所劉富嘉醫師，因為我印象深刻。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，不管是一位或是零位，總之全臺灣這麼多的監獄、看守所裡面只有一位編制的醫師，最多只有一位，其餘的幾乎都是以護理師為主，所以看起來你們這邊的工作量很大。本席認為站在照顧受刑人相關健康權益的立場上，你們應該有必要去看看其他國家是怎麼做的，要強化醫事人力跟心社人力。","另外在教化人力的部分，看到一些新聞媒體報導，教化人員基本上都是從基層的獄政人員再升到教化人員，但是教化人員的工作量很大，他卻沒有辦法領到一些相關的津貼。你們之前有說要制定有關危勞的津貼，現在這部分進度如何，你們有做嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，危勞的津貼，人總可能會將矯正署及海巡署部分併同處理，但是教化人員不是戒護人員，他不能領危勞津貼，他不會晚上去值勤，他是日勤人員。另外跟委員報告，我們的醫事人員不是只有護理師，包括藥劑師、醫檢師，這些都是醫事人員。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。但是本席這邊提醒，第一個，醫事人力看起來現在的照顧比過高，一比三百多；另外就是在教化人員的部分，雖然他可能不是屬於危險、危勞，因為他可能晚上不需要去加班，但確實也是有過勞的問題。很多教化人員說，只要看到法院的判決書上面寫有教化可能，他們就非常辛苦啦，就是做很多工作，平均一個人要輔導上百名或甚至上千名受刑人的教化工作。我覺得這個部分基本上來說，會使矯正的管理出現很大的問題。本席是認為如果人力充裕，各個獄政人員的壓力就不會那麼大，壓力大當然會造成情緒不好，難免也可能會發生獄政人員對於受刑人有一些暴力的問題。今天你們的報告書裡面主要談的是有關於收容人員對於職員施暴的案件數，我們看到平均每一年有60起收容人暴力攻擊教輔人員的事件，本席也認為這個確實是比例很高，我們的獄政、教輔人員很辛苦，做這樣一份高危險性的工作。可是我們也不容忽視，這些年也陸續發生獄政人員、戒護人員可能反過來有一些不當的行為，對於受刑人、收容人等等有出現暴力的狀況，甚至可能還有性騷擾等等的問題。你們有沒有統計過戒護人員行為不當的案例？"],["周署長輝煌：這個部分沒有特別去統計，這都是比較個案的。另外跟委員報告，委員有提到教誨師，教誨師目前是領間接危險津貼，將來我們會再爭取提高教化人員的危險津貼。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。因為今天時間有限，本席希望矯正署接下來可以再提供兩份資料給我，第一個，有關於臺灣目前矯正機關裡面的醫事人力、教化人力還有心社人力跟其他國家的矯正機關相比，現在你們已經做了監護人力的比較，但是在醫事人力跟其他兩種，總共三種類型的人力相比較，我們來看看臺灣嚴重的狀況是如何，這是第一份資料；第二個，本席希望你們也能夠提供這些年來，要不然就是近十年來，我們的獄政人員反過來對於收容人實施暴力行為的案子。雖然剛剛所長說是個案，但是我覺得個案其實也有必要拿出來讓大家知道，而且這個也可以反過來讓我們去思考關於獄政的管理，未來如何讓它更合理化、更妥當。"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，在不妨礙個資的前提下，我們來努力處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，麻煩你們去識別化，姓名可以去識別化，但比較重要的是，要知道到底是什麼樣的行為態樣，我認為這個可以讓我們的獄政在管理上面更為進步。因為資料不是那麼急，可以麻煩你們兩個禮拜之內提供給我，好嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：可不可以一個月？"],["翁委員曉玲：好，可以啊，一個月，那就麻煩你們一個月之內把這兩份資料給我，謝謝。"],["周署長輝煌：好的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束，委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員會及本會。","委員林倩綺所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","黃國昌","王義川","陳培瑜","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","羅智強","吳思瑤","劉書彬","林國成","麥玉珍","陳昭姿","張啓楷","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","林倩綺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-06-16"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正\n監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括\n提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續併案審查（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具\n「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案、（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監\n察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委\n員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00006"}}}