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{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 829.389, \"end\": 829.649, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 829.649, \"end\": 829.93, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 829.93, \"end\": 830.09, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 830.09, \"end\": 830.21, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 830.21, \"end\": 830.37, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 830.37, \"end\": 830.39, \"score\": 0.09}, {\"word\": \"實\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,370 --> 00:00:09,289\n陳昭志發言謝謝主席麻煩洪部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:31,986\n部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人?\n\n3\n00:00:43,445 --> 00:01:00,837\n33萬7972人OK的33萬對將近34萬但是請你看看民進黨二次執政以後當然不是我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨的二次執政當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬你看看那一直到去年2024年是榮年\n\n4\n00:01:03,458 --> 00:01:22,314\n農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何\n\n5\n00:01:24,597 --> 00:01:48,437\n我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長你看這個數字你看這個曲線就知道成果如何成果如何不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道而且最近四個月來部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的\n\n6\n00:01:48,877 --> 00:02:11,489\n那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數繼續下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重耶你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數\n\n7\n00:02:12,569 --> 00:02:37,966\n那部長您上任這個部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位為做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的這個育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假\n\n8\n00:02:38,726 --> 00:02:57,944\n但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年輕的工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢\n\n9\n00:03:00,926 --> 00:03:13,604\n您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會記嗎?有,你的投影片裡面常常有我的投影片\n\n10\n00:03:15,337 --> 00:03:25,804\n對,我很關心你,我們互相關心但問題是大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變,但很沒有改變譬如彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標\n\n11\n00:03:41,494 --> 00:04:03,079\n這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到底你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分\n\n12\n00:04:03,764 --> 00:04:23,223\n我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討?\n\n13\n00:04:24,704 --> 00:04:44,093\n市長跟你的態度不一樣啊暈流停的制度目前正在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了齁市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家人照顧價仍列入市價\n\n14\n00:04:45,514 --> 00:04:58,006\n這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說\n\n15\n00:05:00,328 --> 00:05:15,886\n您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診\n\n16\n00:05:16,967 --> 00:05:37,989\n所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一貫事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他說民間也可以使用但是暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價\n\n17\n00:05:39,571 --> 00:05:57,288\n獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本本我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊\n\n18\n00:05:59,369 --> 00:06:27,069\n您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等請問一下是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面啦對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考\n\n19\n00:06:27,452 --> 00:06:31,535\n但是他跟市價是不一樣,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣有事情要辦,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,陳提案修正,性平法裡面要增加生產準備價\n\n20\n00:06:57,512 --> 00:07:12,226\n那希望能夠這個生產準備希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育\n\n21\n00:07:16,977 --> 00:07:18,459\n因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產當然它叫賠生產它本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢\n\n22\n00:07:31,491 --> 00:07:47,489\n我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院也蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步\n\n23\n00:07:48,450 --> 00:07:56,058\n你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委時候那種信心十足的樣子你就說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎\n\n24\n00:08:03,623 --> 00:08:18,497\n我覺得我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做相關的思考你可以啟動這個政策評估\n\n25\n00:08:23,442 --> 00:08:29,044\n陪生產準備一下當然都有責任嘛我們願意來做整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規喔教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上\n\n26\n00:08:48,809 --> 00:08:55,499\n沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境\n\n27\n00:09:05,413 --> 00:09:10,439\n來去履行他包括要照顧跟家長子女這樣子的義務但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說\n\n28\n00:09:23,576 --> 00:09:50,359\n明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整這個淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟職教稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在《性平法》第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時\n\n29\n00:09:50,919 --> 00:09:55,040\n但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年這個是我們參考那個瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班半天課那家長就得請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個\n\n30\n00:10:11,505 --> 00:10:13,607\n運營價裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備\n\n31\n00:10:26,798 --> 00:10:49,105\n那請部長再瞭解我們的第十二條親職教育這樣為了讓親職教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代有差很多好差很多我出生的時候是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月\n\n32\n00:10:50,726 --> 00:11:15,684\n德請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考\n\n33\n00:11:16,847 --> 00:11:42,837\n博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的\n\n34\n00:11:43,497 --> 00:12:05,266\n當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度囉亡國滅種囉這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這個少數女孩是有未服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行\n\n35\n00:12:05,626 --> 00:12:29,441\n最後一件事情就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向\n\n36\n00:12:30,602 --> 00:12:59,141\n來推動啊這也是民進黨的口號啊這樣可以嗎這幾項根本說明齁這個救保的基金他主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以他其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論啊因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場啊他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源啊那孩子也要養啊孩子是國家的資產啊所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理啊\n\n37\n00:13:00,401 --> 00:13:15,332\n這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付\n\n38\n00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:37,174\n我今天提了好幾個因為瘟瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以為什麼所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手\n\n39\n00:13:38,374 --> 00:13:50,390\n部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n370\t9289\t陳昭志發言謝謝主席 麻煩洪部長\n18200\t31986\t部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人?\n43445\t60837\t33萬7972人 OK的33萬 對 將近34萬但是請你看看 民進黨二次執政以後當然不是 我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨的二次執政當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬你看看 那一直到去年2024年是榮年\n63458\t82314\t農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何\n84597\t108437\t我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長 你看這個數字 你看這個曲線就知道成果如何成果如何 不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道 而且最近四個月來 部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的\n108877\t131489\t那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數繼續下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重耶你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數\n132569\t157966\t那部長您上任這個部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位為做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的這個育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假\n158726\t177944\t但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年輕的工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢\n180926\t193604\t您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會記嗎?有,你的投影片裡面常常有我的投影片\n195337\t205804\t對,我很關心你,我們互相關心但問題是大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變,但很沒有改變譬如彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標\n221494\t243079\t這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到底你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分\n243764\t263223\t我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討?\n264704\t284093\t市長跟你的態度不一樣啊暈流停的制度目前正在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了齁市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家人照顧價仍列入市價\n285514\t298006\t這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說\n300328\t315886\t您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診\n316967\t337989\t所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一貫事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他說民間也可以使用但是暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價\n339571\t357288\t獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本本我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊\n359369\t387069\t您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等請問一下是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面啦對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考\n387452\t391535\t但是他跟市價是不一樣,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣有事情要辦,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,陳提案修正,性平法裡面要增加生產準備價\n417512\t432226\t那希望能夠這個生產準備希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育\n436977\t438459\t因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產當然它叫賠生產它本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢\n451491\t467489\t我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院也蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步\n468450\t476058\t你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委時候那種信心十足的樣子你就說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎\n483623\t498497\t我覺得我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做相關的思考你可以啟動這個政策評估\n503442\t509044\t陪生產準備一下當然都有責任嘛我們願意來做整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規喔教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上\n528809\t535499\t沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境\n545413\t550439\t來去履行他包括要照顧跟家長子女這樣子的義務但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說\n563576\t590359\t明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整這個淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟職教稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在《性平法》第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時\n590919\t595040\t但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年這個是我們參考那個瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班半天課那家長就得請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個\n611505\t613607\t運營價裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備\n626798\t649105\t那請部長再瞭解我們的第十二條親職教育這樣為了讓親職教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代有差很多好 差很多我出生的時候是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月\n650726\t675684\t德請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考\n676847\t702837\t博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的\n703497\t725266\t當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度囉亡國滅種囉這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這個少數女孩是有未服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行\n725626\t749441\t最後一件事情就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向\n750602\t779141\t來推動啊這也是民進黨的口號啊這樣可以嗎這幾項根本說明齁這個救保的基金他主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以他其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論啊因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場啊他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源啊那孩子也要養啊孩子是國家的資產啊所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理啊\n780401\t795332\t這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付\n796429\t817174\t我今天提了好幾個因為瘟瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以為什麼所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手\n818374\t830390\t部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實\n","txt":"陳昭志發言謝謝主席 麻煩洪部長\n部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人?\n33萬7972人 OK的33萬 對 將近34萬但是請你看看 民進黨二次執政以後當然不是 我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨的二次執政當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬你看看 那一直到去年2024年是榮年\n農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何\n我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長 你看這個數字 你看這個曲線就知道成果如何成果如何 不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道 而且最近四個月來 部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的\n那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數繼續下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重耶你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數\n那部長您上任這個部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位為做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的這個育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假\n但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年輕的工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢\n您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會記嗎?有,你的投影片裡面常常有我的投影片\n對,我很關心你,我們互相關心但問題是大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變,但很沒有改變譬如彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標\n這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到底你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分\n我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討?\n市長跟你的態度不一樣啊暈流停的制度目前正在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了齁市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家人照顧價仍列入市價\n這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說\n您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診\n所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一貫事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他說民間也可以使用但是暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價\n獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本本我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊\n您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等請問一下是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面啦對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考\n但是他跟市價是不一樣,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣有事情要辦,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,陳提案修正,性平法裡面要增加生產準備價\n那希望能夠這個生產準備希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育\n因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產當然它叫賠生產它本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢\n我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院也蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步\n你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委時候那種信心十足的樣子你就說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎\n我覺得我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做相關的思考你可以啟動這個政策評估\n陪生產準備一下當然都有責任嘛我們願意來做整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規喔教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上\n沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境\n來去履行他包括要照顧跟家長子女這樣子的義務但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說\n明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整這個淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟職教稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在《性平法》第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時\n但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年這個是我們參考那個瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班半天課那家長就得請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個\n運營價裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備\n那請部長再瞭解我們的第十二條親職教育這樣為了讓親職教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代有差很多好 差很多我出生的時候是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月\n德請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考\n博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的\n當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度囉亡國滅種囉這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這個少數女孩是有未服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行\n最後一件事情就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向\n來推動啊這也是民進黨的口號啊這樣可以嗎這幾項根本說明齁這個救保的基金他主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以他其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論啊因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場啊他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源啊那孩子也要養啊孩子是國家的資產啊所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理啊\n這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付\n我今天提了好幾個因為瘟瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以為什麼所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手\n部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.370 --> 00:09.289\n陳昭志發言謝謝主席麻煩洪部長\n\n00:18.200 --> 00:31.986\n部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人?\n\n00:43.445 --> 01:00.837\n33萬7972人OK的33萬對將近34萬但是請你看看民進黨二次執政以後當然不是我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨的二次執政當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬你看看那一直到去年2024年是榮年\n\n01:03.458 --> 01:22.314\n農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何\n\n01:24.597 --> 01:48.437\n我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長你看這個數字你看這個曲線就知道成果如何成果如何不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道而且最近四個月來部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的\n\n01:48.877 --> 02:11.489\n那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數繼續下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重耶你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數\n\n02:12.569 --> 02:37.966\n那部長您上任這個部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位為做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的這個育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假\n\n02:38.726 --> 02:57.944\n但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年輕的工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢\n\n03:00.926 --> 03:13.604\n您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會記嗎?有,你的投影片裡面常常有我的投影片\n\n03:15.337 --> 03:25.804\n對,我很關心你,我們互相關心但問題是大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變,但很沒有改變譬如彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標\n\n03:41.494 --> 04:03.079\n這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到底你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分\n\n04:03.764 --> 04:23.223\n我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討?\n\n04:24.704 --> 04:44.093\n市長跟你的態度不一樣啊暈流停的制度目前正在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了齁市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家人照顧價仍列入市價\n\n04:45.514 --> 04:58.006\n這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說\n\n05:00.328 --> 05:15.886\n您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診\n\n05:16.967 --> 05:37.989\n所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一貫事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他說民間也可以使用但是暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價\n\n05:39.571 --> 05:57.288\n獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本本我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊\n\n05:59.369 --> 06:27.069\n您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等請問一下是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面啦對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考\n\n06:27.452 --> 06:31.535\n但是他跟市價是不一樣,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣有事情要辦,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,陳提案修正,性平法裡面要增加生產準備價\n\n06:57.512 --> 07:12.226\n那希望能夠這個生產準備希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育\n\n07:16.977 --> 07:18.459\n因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產當然它叫賠生產它本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢\n\n07:31.491 --> 07:47.489\n我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院也蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步\n\n07:48.450 --> 07:56.058\n你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委時候那種信心十足的樣子你就說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎\n\n08:03.623 --> 08:18.497\n我覺得我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做相關的思考你可以啟動這個政策評估\n\n08:23.442 --> 08:29.044\n陪生產準備一下當然都有責任嘛我們願意來做整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規喔教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上\n\n08:48.809 --> 08:55.499\n沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境\n\n09:05.413 --> 09:10.439\n來去履行他包括要照顧跟家長子女這樣子的義務但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說\n\n09:23.576 --> 09:50.359\n明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整這個淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟職教稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在《性平法》第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時\n\n09:50.919 --> 09:55.040\n但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年這個是我們參考那個瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班半天課那家長就得請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個\n\n10:11.505 --> 10:13.607\n運營價裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備\n\n10:26.798 --> 10:49.105\n那請部長再瞭解我們的第十二條親職教育這樣為了讓親職教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代有差很多好差很多我出生的時候是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月\n\n10:50.726 --> 11:15.684\n德請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考\n\n11:16.847 --> 11:42.837\n博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的\n\n11:43.497 --> 12:05.266\n當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度囉亡國滅種囉這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這個少數女孩是有未服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行\n\n12:05.626 --> 12:29.441\n最後一件事情就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向\n\n12:30.602 --> 12:59.141\n來推動啊這也是民進黨的口號啊這樣可以嗎這幾項根本說明齁這個救保的基金他主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以他其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論啊因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場啊他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源啊那孩子也要養啊孩子是國家的資產啊所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理啊\n\n13:00.401 --> 13:15.332\n這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付\n\n13:16.429 --> 13:37.174\n我今天提了好幾個因為瘟瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以為什麼所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手\n\n13:38.374 --> 13:50.390\n部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.37,"end":9.289,"text":"陳昭志發言謝謝主席 麻煩洪部長"},{"start":18.2,"end":31.986,"text":"部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人?"},{"start":43.445,"end":60.837,"text":"33萬7972人 OK的33萬 對 將近34萬但是請你看看 民進黨二次執政以後當然不是 我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨的二次執政當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬你看看 那一直到去年2024年是榮年"},{"start":63.458,"end":82.314,"text":"農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何"},{"start":84.597,"end":108.437,"text":"我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長 你看這個數字 你看這個曲線就知道成果如何成果如何 不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道 而且最近四個月來 部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的"},{"start":108.877,"end":131.489,"text":"那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數繼續下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重耶你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數"},{"start":132.569,"end":157.966,"text":"那部長您上任這個部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位為做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的這個育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假"},{"start":158.726,"end":177.944,"text":"但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年輕的工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢"},{"start":180.926,"end":193.604,"text":"您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會記嗎?有,你的投影片裡面常常有我的投影片"},{"start":195.337,"end":205.804,"text":"對,我很關心你,我們互相關心但問題是大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變,但很沒有改變譬如彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標"},{"start":221.494,"end":243.079,"text":"這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到底你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分"},{"start":243.764,"end":263.223,"text":"我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討?"},{"start":264.704,"end":284.093,"text":"市長跟你的態度不一樣啊暈流停的制度目前正在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了齁市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家人照顧價仍列入市價"},{"start":285.514,"end":298.006,"text":"這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說"},{"start":300.328,"end":315.886,"text":"您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診"},{"start":316.967,"end":337.989,"text":"所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一貫事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他說民間也可以使用但是暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價"},{"start":339.571,"end":357.288,"text":"獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本本我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊"},{"start":359.369,"end":387.069,"text":"您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等請問一下是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面啦對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考"},{"start":387.452,"end":391.535,"text":"但是他跟市價是不一樣,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣有事情要辦,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,陳提案修正,性平法裡面要增加生產準備價"},{"start":417.512,"end":432.226,"text":"那希望能夠這個生產準備希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育"},{"start":436.977,"end":438.459,"text":"因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產當然它叫賠生產它本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢"},{"start":451.491,"end":467.489,"text":"我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院也蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步"},{"start":468.45,"end":476.058,"text":"你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委時候那種信心十足的樣子你就說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎"},{"start":483.623,"end":498.497,"text":"我覺得我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做相關的思考你可以啟動這個政策評估"},{"start":503.442,"end":509.044,"text":"陪生產準備一下當然都有責任嘛我們願意來做整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規喔教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上"},{"start":528.809,"end":535.499,"text":"沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境"},{"start":545.413,"end":550.439,"text":"來去履行他包括要照顧跟家長子女這樣子的義務但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說"},{"start":563.576,"end":590.359,"text":"明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整這個淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟職教稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在《性平法》第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時"},{"start":590.919,"end":595.04,"text":"但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年這個是我們參考那個瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班半天課那家長就得請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個"},{"start":611.505,"end":613.607,"text":"運營價裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備"},{"start":626.798,"end":649.105,"text":"那請部長再瞭解我們的第十二條親職教育這樣為了讓親職教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代有差很多好 差很多我出生的時候是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月"},{"start":650.726,"end":675.684,"text":"德請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考"},{"start":676.847,"end":702.837,"text":"博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的"},{"start":703.497,"end":725.266,"text":"當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度囉亡國滅種囉這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這個少數女孩是有未服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行"},{"start":725.626,"end":749.441,"text":"最後一件事情就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向"},{"start":750.602,"end":779.141,"text":"來推動啊這也是民進黨的口號啊這樣可以嗎這幾項根本說明齁這個救保的基金他主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以他其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論啊因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場啊他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源啊那孩子也要養啊孩子是國家的資產啊所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理啊"},{"start":780.401,"end":795.332,"text":"這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付"},{"start":796.429,"end":817.174,"text":"我今天提了好幾個因為瘟瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以為什麼所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手"},{"start":818.374,"end":830.39,"text":"部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":173,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時14分）謝謝主席，麻煩洪部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["洪部長申翰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。部長，我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數，而且我還提供了每年的累積數字。我想請問部長，你知道你出生那一年臺灣的新生兒有多少嗎？你出生那一年，不是秘密吧？1984年。你知道嗎？出生人口有多少人，不知道？33萬7,972人，很OK的。"],["洪部長申翰：33萬？"],["陳委員昭姿：對，將近34萬。但是請你看看，民進黨二次執政以後，當然不是指什麼，我是說數字是如此，單看2016年民進黨二次執政，當年出生人數大概20萬，可是每年降1萬，你看看，一直到去年2024年是龍年，結果龍年出生數到13萬4,856人，部長，比起你出生那一年少了六成，只剩下四成的人口，部長，過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因作為鼓勵生育的手段，你認為成果如何？"],["洪部長申翰：我想當然現在少子女化的問題，其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的。"],["陳委員昭姿：我理解。部長，你看這個數字、你看這個曲線就知道成果如何，不管是多少部會要來承擔的，這個一看就知道，而且最近四個月來，完全沒有回升的趨勢，上個星期，內政部公告了5月份的數字，你會不會背？8,433人，才八千多人，媒體使用「下探新低」一詞來處理，所以出生人數持續下跌，恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的經濟誘因，生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理了，這很嚴重，你如果把這個八千多乘以12，比起你出生那一年的人數，不得了了！部長上任部長之前12天，你有到衛環組參加一個公聽會，你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留停制度太難用了，可能就是因為申請要用月作單位，譬如小孩子突然發燒了，也許幾天，你不可能因此就請一個月的育嬰留停，所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假，但是家庭照顧假就是併入到事假裡面一起，其實天數很有限，總共是7天，等於有點是你要照顧孩子，可是你又要被扣薪，因為事假是要扣薪的，許多年輕的工作者本來薪水就不高，你現在有點像要懲罰稅，有點像生孩子，你就給他懲罰一樣。部長，你記不記得你在2023年總質詢，你還向當時陳建仁院長說現行育嬰留停這個制度並不符合實際的需求，這都是你說的話，部長，你記得吧？"],["洪部長申翰：有，委員的投影片裡面常有我的投影片。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，我很關心你，我們互相關心。問題是大家都知道這個制度不好，制度是沒有改變，在還沒有改變時，譬如彈性育嬰假，我真的想請教一下，今年3月李健鴻次長接受媒體採訪時，他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不在考慮範圍內，但是一個月後，部長又在媒體表示彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標。這個說法都不一致，很多爸爸媽媽會想到底你們是真的要做，還是喊喊口號？另外，育嬰假的彈性改革是一個體制性的變革，你是打算用行政命令處理，還是可以從法制面修法來調整呢？你跟次長的說法不一樣，我先了解這個部分。"],["洪部長申翰：關於彈性育嬰留停的部分，我們目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內就可以來處理的空間。"],["陳委員昭姿：為什麼官員都很怕修法？修法就違法，是不是？都想要用行政命令或其他的方式處理。反正你的態度是什麼？到底育嬰留停制度要不要檢討？因為次長跟你的態度不一樣！"],["洪部長申翰：育嬰留停的制度目前正在檢討中……"],["陳委員昭姿：就是彈性化？"],["洪部長申翰：對，彈性化。目前都在檢討中，我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行檢討。"],["陳委員昭姿：更有彈性？"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，接下來我跟你談法條的部分，因為現行性平法第二十條規定，家庭照顧假仍列入事假，全年最多七天，但事假跟家庭照顧假是本質不同的兩回事，前者比較像是個人的事務要處理，但後者是照顧責任，卻把這兩個放在一起計算，我想了解，你也這樣認為嗎？因為我們今天會討論這個題目，除了想要努力提高生育率之外，又面對高齡化的問題，照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事。當然我知道在疫情期間有點特別，因為很多小朋友確診，所以2022年銓敘部有一個函釋，提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該依個案事實從寬認定，並且提到、暗示民間企業也可以適用，但隨著少子化、高齡化需求增加，所以我們有一些主張，麻煩部長關心一下。第一個、我們希望把家庭照顧假從事假獨立出來，另立一個假別，就是家庭照顧假。家庭照顧假當然可以討論，本黨提出來的版本是14天，因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的承諾。我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的方向呢？為什麼要提出家庭照顧假，因為現在老的、小的都要照顧，您有同意這個方向嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：第一個、現在包括第五類傳染病等等，目前都在家庭照顧假適用的範圍裡面。"],["陳委員昭姿：我的意思是，家庭照顧假要跟事假綁在一起嗎？這個沒有想過嗎？勞動部有沒有思考一下？"],["洪部長申翰：目前家庭照顧假的部分，我們也是朝希望能夠讓它更彈性運用的方向在思考。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是它跟事假不一樣，你同意嗎？家庭照顧假跟事假本質不一樣！看也知道不一樣，事假是有事情要辦、辦點什麼事情，家庭照顧是照顧人，不一樣！請部長想想看這兩個假別是不是可以分開？部長擔任立委時，曾提案修正性平法要增加生產準備假，你記得吧？生產準備假原來叫產檢假，希望能夠促進友善育兒的職場環境，也是今天我們的主題。這一項你跟我都有一樣的主張，就是生產準備假。本黨又提了一個版本，就是受孕者的配偶如果要參加產前教育，因為產前教育現在不是事由，雖然叫陪生產，事實本身卻不是生產，所以是陪生產準備假。我先請教部長，針對生產準備假，你是不是還維持當時自己的初衷、主張呢？你當時說過……"],["洪部長申翰：關於生產準備假，現在立法院有滿多的版本，我們也願意跟立法院整體來討論。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你要有信心，因為你以前主張的東西對人民是好的，你有時候就要站穩你的腳步、你的位置，你就是要向上爭取，我希望部長能夠回到當立委時那種信心十足的樣子。第二、將產前教育這個事由納入生產準備假，你同意嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女，包括他的配偶，然後……"],["陳委員昭姿：對，要一起負責任。"],["洪部長申翰：整體能夠有更好或更友善的環境，這部分我們願意來做相關的思考。"],["陳委員昭姿：你可以啟動討論或政策評估嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們願意來做相關政策評估。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是生產準備假跟陪生產準備假，大家都有責任！剛剛你開宗明義也講了。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，我們願意來做整體的政策評估。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是盤點一下現行法規，家長本來就有兩個義務，這是法規，教育基本法第八條規定，家長負有輔導子女的責任；幼教法第四十一條規範更明確，講得非常清楚，父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動。請問部長，法規規定父母親要做這件事情，如果在制度上沒有給予、保障他行使責任的作法，等同削弱他履行義務的能力……"],["洪部長申翰：其實也是因為這些相關的條文，我們認為我們有義務協助父母有更好、更友善的環境去履行，包括要照顧跟教養子女這樣的義務。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們方向一樣，但是作法要具體跟快一點。因為現在家長都是透過休假跟事假來處理，請問部長針對廣稱家長親職責任的支持制度，要不要先進行法規盤點？明明它是被規範的，當然我們也有親職……"],["洪部長申翰：這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討，也預計想要調整育嬰留停彈性化很重要的原因。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，本黨有提出親職假跟職教假，稍微跟部長說明一下。民眾黨在性平法第十六條之一增訂親職假，受僱者任職滿六個月後，在子女滿八歲之前得申請親職假，可以用日或小時為單位，但是併入育嬰假計算，最長兩年。我們是參考瑞典親職假彈性化的制度，目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒。因為有時候譬如幼兒停托或上半天課，家長就得請個假來照顧孩子。這是第一點，我們主張放在育嬰假裡面，它是合併，只是可以用的時間更長。但是剛剛你也提到，為了讓老闆們、雇主不要太擔心，我們也在規範裡面寫，因為這個是可以計畫的，所以可以在十天前提出申請，讓雇主有所準備。請部長再了解我們提案第十二條之二的親職教育假，為了讓親職教育更有效進行，我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶，我那個年代叫母姐會，你那個年代可能叫親師會，現在有親子座談。因為法規……我也承認我年紀比你大很多……"],["洪部長申翰：我們年代有差那麼多？"],["陳委員昭姿：差很多！我出生的時候是四十幾萬人，你出生才三十幾萬人。爸爸媽媽在受僱單位滿六個月得請親職教育假，我們的設計是有幾個小孩，就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會，兩個小孩就兩天，一年多兩天給他，我覺得這個很合理。部長，我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的修法草案，已經在排隊等了，請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向？"],["洪部長申翰：其實這裡面有很多的精神，就是看到相關法案的精神，我覺得我們都可以來思考。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你要回答具體一點，要有信心，我要看到當年的你，就是很堅定的，覺得對的方向就往那裡。當然不是你一個人能決定的。"],["洪部長申翰：這不是不堅定，因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多變動，每一個制度其實都會有它對應的配套，或者是對應要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況。"],["陳委員昭姿：這就是每個政黨爭取執政、要福國利民的，執政就是要做這些事。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，其實在很多的精神上，我認為目前朝野提出來的方向是相近的。"],["陳委員昭姿：我已經告訴你，現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度了！"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["陳委員昭姿：亡國滅種了！"],["洪部長申翰：這也是為什麼勞動部認為，雖然看起來少子女化是由衛福部主責的，可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成，讓相關政策能夠更友善的執行。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，大家來配合，這我同意。","我再問你最後一件事情，因為有新的假別，就業保險法裡面的就業保險津貼，可不可能再考慮增加親職假津貼、親職教育假津貼及家庭照顧假津貼這幾項？讓家長不用擔心養兒育女、陪伴的時候會有一些經濟上的損失。因為大家都喊、國家也喊零到六歲國家養，其實距離零到六歲國家養的境界還非常遙遠，但是至少要往這個方向來推動，這也是民進黨的口號，這樣可以嗎？這幾項……"],["洪部長申翰：就保基金主要在處理就業、失業相關的給付，它其實是跟就業、失業有關的部分。"],["陳委員昭姿：可以討論，因為要把爸爸媽媽留在職場，他們相對年輕都是最重要的生產力來源，而孩子也要養，孩子是國家的資產，所以就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理。針對這個方向，你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留停彈性化來著手，因為育嬰留停是目前就保裡面已經有的給付。"],["陳委員昭姿：我今天提了好幾個……"],["洪部長申翰：因為育嬰留停是就保裡面既有的給付，從就保既有的給付裡面，讓它能夠更好用、更彈性，比較能夠處理現在的各種狀況……"],["陳委員昭姿：所以次長說的不算，你說了算，育嬰……"],["洪部長申翰：可能小孩子臨時會遇到照顧的需求，其實是這個原因，所以為什麼……"],["陳委員昭姿：育嬰留停的彈性化？"],["洪部長申翰：對，所以我們目前是朝向這個方面來著手。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，請你記得，當你站在民意這邊的時候，當你身為民意代表的時候，跟你現在真的有權力來做的時候，我也希望你的想法是一致的。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我現在在做部長的時候，我們就是盡力落實當時的主張。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員、謝謝部長。","接續請林月琴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":516,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-17","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","涂權吉","劉建國","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","李坤城","張雅琳","張啓楷","陳瑩","楊曜","林德福","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":443,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00017"}}}