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\"text\": \"勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 485.659, \"end\": 486.22, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 486.22, \"end\": 486.46, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 486.46, \"end\": 486.7, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 486.7, \"end\": 487.04, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 487.04, \"end\": 487.26, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 487.26, \"end\": 487.44, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.44, \"end\": 487.54, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 487.54, \"end\": 487.8, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"煎\", \"start\": 487.8, \"end\": 488.12, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"熬\", \"start\": 488.12, \"end\": 489.001, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 489.001, 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{\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 502.408, \"end\": 502.508, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 502.508, \"end\": 502.528, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 507.37, \"end\": 523.56, \"text\": \"那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 507.37, \"end\": 507.45, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 507.45, \"end\": 507.51, \"score\": 0.635}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 507.51, \"end\": 507.95, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 507.95, \"end\": 508.231, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 508.231, \"end\": 508.431, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 508.431, \"end\": 508.651, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 508.651, \"end\": 508.791, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 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519.917, \"end\": 520.278, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 520.278, \"end\": 520.398, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 520.398, \"end\": 520.558, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 520.558, \"end\": 521.258, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 521.258, \"end\": 522.019, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 522.019, \"end\": 522.379, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 522.379, \"end\": 522.479, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 522.479, \"end\": 522.699, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 522.699, \"end\": 522.899, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 522.899, \"end\": 523.319, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 523.319, \"end\": 523.54, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 523.54, \"end\": 523.56, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"話\"}]}, {\"start\": 524.96, \"end\": 546.448, \"text\": \"我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 524.96, \"end\": 525.08, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 525.08, \"end\": 526.601, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 526.601, \"end\": 527.721, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 527.721, \"end\": 528.521, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 528.521, \"end\": 528.642, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 528.642, \"end\": 528.862, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"寒\", \"start\": 528.862, \"end\": 529.422, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"蟬\"}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 529.422, \"end\": 531.723, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 531.723, \"end\": 531.863, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": 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0.936}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 538.425, \"end\": 538.685, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 538.685, \"end\": 539.225, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 539.225, \"end\": 539.625, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"訟\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 539.625, \"end\": 539.946, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 539.946, \"end\": 540.146, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 540.146, \"end\": 540.506, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 540.506, \"end\": 540.726, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 540.726, \"end\": 542.126, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 542.126, \"end\": 542.266, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 542.266, \"end\": 542.446, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 542.446, \"end\": 542.767, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 542.767, \"end\": 542.987, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 542.987, \"end\": 543.487, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 543.487, \"end\": 543.687, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 543.687, \"end\": 543.827, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 543.827, \"end\": 543.967, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 543.967, \"end\": 544.207, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 544.207, \"end\": 544.427, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"秋\", \"start\": 544.427, \"end\": 544.667, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 544.667, \"end\": 544.947, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 544.947, \"end\": 545.808, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"帳\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.808, \"end\": 545.908, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 545.908, \"end\": 546.128, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 546.128, \"end\": 546.428, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 546.428, \"end\": 546.448, \"score\": 0.134}]}, {\"start\": 547.188, \"end\": 569.18, \"text\": \"所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 547.188, \"end\": 547.268, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 547.268, \"end\": 547.308, \"score\": 0.34}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 547.308, \"end\": 547.428, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 547.428, \"end\": 548.749, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 548.749, \"end\": 549.029, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 549.029, \"end\": 549.129, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 549.129, \"end\": 549.329, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 549.329, \"end\": 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\"好\", \"start\": 731.042, \"end\": 731.062, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,350 --> 00:00:05,237\n那在圖前期委員執行完畢後我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席我們請部長\n\n2\n00:00:20,339 --> 00:00:42,072\n我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上\n\n3\n00:00:43,052 --> 00:00:55,797\n那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩\n\n4\n00:00:58,718 --> 00:01:22,273\n這個通常大部分都是這樣子那我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作那像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別\n\n5\n00:01:24,434 --> 00:01:34,563\n針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓她們再進到職場那我想請教部長就是說\n\n6\n00:01:38,547 --> 00:01:57,015\n我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說\n\n7\n00:01:59,356 --> 00:02:26,609\n這個經天美增加100歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓這個婦女的這個勞參率能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究啦\n\n8\n00:02:28,493 --> 00:02:49,505\n因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚為您的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性菌流停像這樣子的\n\n9\n00:02:50,666 --> 00:03:06,204\n的政策目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞參率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對勞參率目前我們應該看起來\n\n10\n00:03:06,664 --> 00:03:22,731\n是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班\n\n11\n00:03:23,411 --> 00:03:48,771\n那孩子有人照顾这个就是一个非常重要的一个环节那我想请教就是说我们看到我们目前的这个育儿政策就是说以目前来讲我们以我们的助理来讲好了就是说我们的助理他本身也有孩子那他要来上班把孩子送到幼儿园那幼儿园通常他们的那个上课时间可能到四点\n\n12\n00:03:49,611 --> 00:04:08,701\n也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒\n\n13\n00:04:09,361 --> 00:04:32,705\n幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助\n\n14\n00:04:37,193 --> 00:04:58,341\n很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵\n\n15\n00:04:59,761 --> 00:05:15,151\n其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論\n\n16\n00:05:16,191 --> 00:05:42,460\n就是針對家庭的需求那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會就是直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場\n\n17\n00:05:43,420 --> 00:06:11,396\n那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是\n\n18\n00:06:12,476 --> 00:06:39,258\n托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法\n\n19\n00:06:42,095 --> 00:06:59,897\n我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力\n\n20\n00:07:00,077 --> 00:07:20,839\n所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個僱主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的\n\n21\n00:07:22,020 --> 00:07:26,885\n那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是\n\n22\n00:07:44,664 --> 00:08:00,716\n資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對這個\n\n23\n00:08:05,659 --> 00:08:22,528\n勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了\n\n24\n00:08:27,370 --> 00:08:43,560\n那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話\n\n25\n00:08:44,960 --> 00:09:06,448\n我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形\n\n26\n00:09:07,188 --> 00:09:29,180\n所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法\n\n27\n00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:45,923\n這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部\n\n28\n00:09:47,324 --> 00:10:02,526\n他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有些細節我可以請好\n\n29\n00:10:04,902 --> 00:10:25,457\n跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工\n\n30\n00:10:26,718 --> 00:10:47,164\n所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高端刑侦法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侦法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償\n\n31\n00:10:48,184 --> 00:11:08,714\n那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適宜細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲\n\n32\n00:11:09,895 --> 00:11:21,547\n不可以對公會提起他們提起合法的正義行為你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應\n\n33\n00:11:33,179 --> 00:11:53,492\n所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾\n\n34\n00:11:54,495 --> 00:12:11,062\n那個我想這個歡迎提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或工會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n350\t5237\t那在圖前期委員執行完畢後我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席我們請部長\n20339\t42072\t我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上\n43052\t55797\t那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩\n58718\t82273\t這個通常大部分都是這樣子那我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作那像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別\n84434\t94563\t針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓她們再進到職場那我想請教部長就是說\n98547\t117015\t我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說\n119356\t146609\t這個經天美增加100歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓這個婦女的這個勞參率能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究啦\n148493\t169505\t因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚為您的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性菌流停像這樣子的\n170666\t186204\t的政策目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞參率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對勞參率目前我們應該看起來\n186664\t202731\t是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班\n203411\t228771\t那孩子有人照顾这个就是一个非常重要的一个环节那我想请教就是说我们看到我们目前的这个育儿政策就是说以目前来讲我们以我们的助理来讲好了就是说我们的助理他本身也有孩子那他要来上班把孩子送到幼儿园那幼儿园通常他们的那个上课时间可能到四点\n229611\t248701\t也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒\n249361\t272705\t幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助\n277193\t298341\t很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵\n299761\t315151\t其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論\n316191\t342460\t就是針對家庭的需求那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會就是直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場\n343420\t371396\t那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是\n372476\t399258\t托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法\n402095\t419897\t我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力\n420077\t440839\t所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個僱主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的\n442020\t446885\t那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是\n464664\t480716\t資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對這個\n485659\t502528\t勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了\n507370\t523560\t那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話\n524960\t546448\t我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形\n547188\t569180\t所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法\n573333\t585923\t這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部\n587324\t602526\t他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有些細節我可以請好\n604902\t625457\t跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工\n626718\t647164\t所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高端刑侦法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侦法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償\n648184\t668714\t那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適宜細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲\n669895\t681547\t不可以對公會提起他們提起合法的正義行為你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應\n693179\t713492\t所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾\n714495\t731062\t那個我想這個歡迎提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或工會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"那在圖前期委員執行完畢後我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席我們請部長\n我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上\n那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩\n這個通常大部分都是這樣子那我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作那像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別\n針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓她們再進到職場那我想請教部長就是說\n我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說\n這個經天美增加100歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓這個婦女的這個勞參率能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究啦\n因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚為您的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性菌流停像這樣子的\n的政策目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞參率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對勞參率目前我們應該看起來\n是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班\n那孩子有人照顾这个就是一个非常重要的一个环节那我想请教就是说我们看到我们目前的这个育儿政策就是说以目前来讲我们以我们的助理来讲好了就是说我们的助理他本身也有孩子那他要来上班把孩子送到幼儿园那幼儿园通常他们的那个上课时间可能到四点\n也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒\n幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助\n很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵\n其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論\n就是針對家庭的需求那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會就是直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場\n那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是\n托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法\n我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力\n所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個僱主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的\n那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是\n資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對這個\n勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了\n那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話\n我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形\n所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法\n這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部\n他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有些細節我可以請好\n跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工\n所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高端刑侦法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侦法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償\n那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適宜細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲\n不可以對公會提起他們提起合法的正義行為你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應\n所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾\n那個我想這個歡迎提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或工會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.350 --> 00:05.237\n那在圖前期委員執行完畢後我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席我們請部長\n\n00:20.339 --> 00:42.072\n我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上\n\n00:43.052 --> 00:55.797\n那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩\n\n00:58.718 --> 01:22.273\n這個通常大部分都是這樣子那我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作那像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別\n\n01:24.434 --> 01:34.563\n針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓她們再進到職場那我想請教部長就是說\n\n01:38.547 --> 01:57.015\n我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說\n\n01:59.356 --> 02:26.609\n這個經天美增加100歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓這個婦女的這個勞參率能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究啦\n\n02:28.493 --> 02:49.505\n因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚為您的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性菌流停像這樣子的\n\n02:50.666 --> 03:06.204\n的政策目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞參率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對勞參率目前我們應該看起來\n\n03:06.664 --> 03:22.731\n是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班\n\n03:23.411 --> 03:48.771\n那孩子有人照顾这个就是一个非常重要的一个环节那我想请教就是说我们看到我们目前的这个育儿政策就是说以目前来讲我们以我们的助理来讲好了就是说我们的助理他本身也有孩子那他要来上班把孩子送到幼儿园那幼儿园通常他们的那个上课时间可能到四点\n\n03:49.611 --> 04:08.701\n也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒\n\n04:09.361 --> 04:32.705\n幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助\n\n04:37.193 --> 04:58.341\n很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵\n\n04:59.761 --> 05:15.151\n其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論\n\n05:16.191 --> 05:42.460\n就是針對家庭的需求那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會就是直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場\n\n05:43.420 --> 06:11.396\n那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是\n\n06:12.476 --> 06:39.258\n托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法\n\n06:42.095 --> 06:59.897\n我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力\n\n07:00.077 --> 07:20.839\n所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個僱主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的\n\n07:22.020 --> 07:26.885\n那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是\n\n07:44.664 --> 08:00.716\n資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對這個\n\n08:05.659 --> 08:22.528\n勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了\n\n08:27.370 --> 08:43.560\n那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話\n\n08:44.960 --> 09:06.448\n我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形\n\n09:07.188 --> 09:29.180\n所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法\n\n09:33.333 --> 09:45.923\n這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部\n\n09:47.324 --> 10:02.526\n他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有些細節我可以請好\n\n10:04.902 --> 10:25.457\n跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工\n\n10:26.718 --> 10:47.164\n所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高端刑侦法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侦法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償\n\n10:48.184 --> 11:08.714\n那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適宜細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲\n\n11:09.895 --> 11:21.547\n不可以對公會提起他們提起合法的正義行為你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應\n\n11:33.179 --> 11:53.492\n所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾\n\n11:54.495 --> 12:11.062\n那個我想這個歡迎提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或工會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.35,"end":5.237,"text":"那在圖前期委員執行完畢後我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席我們請部長"},{"start":20.339,"end":42.072,"text":"我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上"},{"start":43.052,"end":55.797,"text":"那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩"},{"start":58.718,"end":82.273,"text":"這個通常大部分都是這樣子那我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作那像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別"},{"start":84.434,"end":94.563,"text":"針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓她們再進到職場那我想請教部長就是說"},{"start":98.547,"end":117.015,"text":"我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說"},{"start":119.356,"end":146.609,"text":"這個經天美增加100歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓這個婦女的這個勞參率能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究啦"},{"start":148.493,"end":169.505,"text":"因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚為您的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性菌流停像這樣子的"},{"start":170.666,"end":186.204,"text":"的政策目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞參率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對勞參率目前我們應該看起來"},{"start":186.664,"end":202.731,"text":"是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班"},{"start":203.411,"end":228.771,"text":"那孩子有人照顾这个就是一个非常重要的一个环节那我想请教就是说我们看到我们目前的这个育儿政策就是说以目前来讲我们以我们的助理来讲好了就是说我们的助理他本身也有孩子那他要来上班把孩子送到幼儿园那幼儿园通常他们的那个上课时间可能到四点"},{"start":229.611,"end":248.701,"text":"也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒"},{"start":249.361,"end":272.705,"text":"幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助"},{"start":277.193,"end":298.341,"text":"很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵"},{"start":299.761,"end":315.151,"text":"其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論"},{"start":316.191,"end":342.46,"text":"就是針對家庭的需求那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會就是直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場"},{"start":343.42,"end":371.396,"text":"那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是"},{"start":372.476,"end":399.258,"text":"托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法"},{"start":402.095,"end":419.897,"text":"我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力"},{"start":420.077,"end":440.839,"text":"所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個僱主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的"},{"start":442.02,"end":446.885,"text":"那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是"},{"start":464.664,"end":480.716,"text":"資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對這個"},{"start":485.659,"end":502.528,"text":"勞工來講其實是一個很大的一個煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在工會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了"},{"start":507.37,"end":523.56,"text":"那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話"},{"start":524.96,"end":546.448,"text":"我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提出訴訟的時候其實很多這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳這樣的一個情形"},{"start":547.188,"end":569.18,"text":"所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法"},{"start":573.333,"end":585.923,"text":"這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部"},{"start":587.324,"end":602.526,"text":"他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有些細節我可以請好"},{"start":604.902,"end":625.457,"text":"跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工"},{"start":626.718,"end":647.164,"text":"所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高端刑侦法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侦法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償"},{"start":648.184,"end":668.714,"text":"那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適宜細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲"},{"start":669.895,"end":681.547,"text":"不可以對公會提起他們提起合法的正義行為你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應"},{"start":693.179,"end":713.492,"text":"所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾"},{"start":714.495,"end":731.062,"text":"那個我想這個歡迎提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或工會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":475,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（10時23分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["洪部長申翰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職的政策規劃，我想請教剛剛邱委員有特別提到的，一般這種育兒責任目前好像是落在女性身上，也會造成女性從結婚、生完小孩之後有很多……如果孩子是自己顧的話，通常都是女性離開職場照顧小孩，大部分都是這樣子。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：我們看到勞發署這邊也很積極，針對孩子長大之後婦女能夠二度就業的媒合，我看到你們也都非常積極，也跟民間很多團體有一些合作，像一些地方的婦女團體也有特別針對婦女二度就業提出一些，譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談讓他們再進到職場。我們看到國外的一些例子，以芬蘭為例，他們針對未滿3歲、沒有送托的家長發放每個月高達1萬3,000元的育兒津貼，後來他們也有發現，這個津貼每增加100歐元，女性的勞參率就會下降1.5。我想請教部長，你們有沒有針對這部分去做一些研究，透過什麼樣的政策讓婦女不會因為我們補助的關係而降低勞參率？我不知道你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，育兒津貼目前的業管單位是在衛福部，勞動部主要發放勞保或國民年金的生育給付部分。不過我們也很清楚委員的提醒，這也是為什麼我們現在在推動彈性育嬰留停這樣子的政策，目前在規劃中，其實就是希望把更多的女性留在職場上、維持勞參率。不過委員現在問的如果是針對育兒津貼發放金額高低對於勞參率的影響，目前看起來我們應該是還沒有相關的數據研究。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。我們當然也希望婦女都能夠留在職場上，如果婦女要留在職場上，應該要讓她能夠安心的上班，那孩子有人照顧就是一個非常重要的環節。我們看到目前的育兒政策，以我們的助理來講好了，我們的助理本身也有孩子，他要來上班因此把孩子送到幼兒園，幼兒園的上課時間通常到四點、也許到四點，國小也是到四點左右，如果時間要再增加或者延長的話，國小通常都到安親班，幼兒園的話可能會再酌收費用，然後請幼兒園的老師再多照顧一、兩個小時。我想請教部長，我們有沒有可能針對家庭育兒的需求來建置一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小，針對這樣的家庭需求然後時間是往後延的？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，關於協助很多婦女平衡她的工作跟家庭照顧需求的部分，其實我們現在就有雇主的工時調整獎勵，就是如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整，更方便我們家長來去，包括像接小孩等的話，其實我們給獎勵，其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，是針對雇主方面嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：對，我們會給……"],["黃委員秀芳：如果像幼兒園，或者是國小，其實我覺得勞動部應該也可以跟教育部來做一些討論，就針對家庭的需求。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，是不是這個時間可以延長？因為以目前來講，如果國小4點下課，通常孩子可能就會直接送到安親班；有的如果沒有送到安親班的話，也許是家人接走。我不知道有沒有可能，就是因為要有一些友善的職場，是不是有可能勞動部跟教育部也做一個跨部會的討論？"],["洪部長申翰：我知道委員現在這個想法的用意，就是勞工下班的時間跟兒童離開學校的時間能夠去做接合的對接，讓大家可以更方便，這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或衛福部做討論，因為如果是托嬰、托兒的話，主要是衛福部在管理，我們當然願意跟他們來做討論，不過的確就如委員剛剛講的，包括托兒所或學校這部分的時間可能還是其他目的事業主管機關在主管，但我們很願意跟他們來討論，這兩邊怎麼協調，能夠讓這個銜接的部分更沒有阻礙或更沒有落差，我們當然願意跟大家來研擬、討論這個想法。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們希望可以啦，因為確實很多家長因為工作的關係，然後學校、幼兒園可能4點下課，所以會造成一些困擾，我覺得應該可以朝著這個方向去努力。"],["洪部長申翰：我們也是考慮到在這一點，所以我們才推出雇主工時調整的獎勵，就是至少在職場的工時端，希望讓它更有彈性去滿足家長、婦女可能要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的需求，其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵，所以用意是相同的。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。部長，接下來我想請教2019年長榮的空服員發動罷工事件，到今（2025）年4月24日最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴，就是資方有去告這些工會的人。我想請教，罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利，如果因為罷工，然後資方又提起訴訟，這樣訴訟就經過了6年的時間，其實對勞工來講是一個很大的煎熬，尤其長榮是一個大公司，這些工會的成員被纏訟6年的時間。其實到目前我們看到繼續留在這個公司的，就剩下4個人，他們還繼續留在工會擔任幹部，有的就已經離職了。我想請教部長，針對這一部分，因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利，因為罷工，然後公司提起訴訟，如果未來還是有這樣的情形發生的話，我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應，我想聽聽部長的想法。另外，資方提起訴訟的時候，其實很多空服員也會擔心有被秋後算帳的情形，所以我想聽聽部長的想法，未來也許還有其他的工會或公司有這樣一個罷工的情形，然後資方可能又提起訴訟，可能會讓勞方未來因為某種因素而不敢再提出罷工，對於這種情形，我想聽聽部長的想法。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，這個案子經過勞動部的不當勞動行為裁決委員會，目前其實已經作成認定，就是長榮的資方其實對幹部提起相關的訴訟，因為罷工的問題，目前已經認定長榮這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為。所以我們在這方面的態度是清楚的，有一些細節我可以請司長說明。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。"],["王司長厚偉：跟委員報告，當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為，因為罷工後第二天，長榮公司馬上向法院提起非常高額訴訟的金額，不僅是對工會，還對所有的幹部──個人。第二個，它的速度很快，我們認為它某種程度是施壓於工會的罷工，所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為這已經構成不當勞動行為了，高等行政法院也很支持我們，當然最高行政法院認為訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的，所以最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣，不過民事法院也支持，認為這是合法的訴訟，不應該有任何的求償。也跟委員報告，我們在工會法施行細則都有明定，第三十條明定，如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持依工會決議所為之行為，威脅提起或提起顯不相當之民事損害賠償訴訟，我們認為這就是不利待遇，這一條也就是我們現在對資方的呼籲，不可以對工會合法的正義行為提起，顯不相當的訴訟要求賠償，這會構成不當勞動行為。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，其實我看到這個會擔心，未來工會主張他們的權利時，資方如果提起訴訟，其實真的會有一個寒蟬效應。"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["黃委員秀芳：對啊！所以我希望勞動部針對這件事也需要去正視，未來如果有類似的狀況，我覺得你們動作也很快，當然勞工有自己的權利，勞動部就是要去保障勞工基本的權利，你們要成為勞工最好的後盾。"],["洪部長申翰：我想黃委員提的類似案件，勞動部的態度是清楚的，罷工只要是合法的，其實都是勞工或工會相關的權益，不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾、妨礙，甚至是打壓。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員、謝謝部長。","接下來請涂權吉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":516,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-17","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","涂權吉","劉建國","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","李坤城","張雅琳","張啓楷","陳瑩","楊曜","林德福","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":443,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00017"}}}