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798.96, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 798.96, \"end\": 798.98, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,387 --> 00:00:10,432\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉思芳部長劉部長有請好\n\n2\n00:00:13,513 --> 00:00:42,351\n好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多五天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益那接下來我們明年還有這個消防節是1月15號1月19號也會全國也會全部的這個消防員放假對嗎\n\n3\n00:00:44,674 --> 00:00:59,895\n報告消防消防節當然是消防人但是不可能全部消防人都放假就是會輪班啦會輪班他們會按照譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分的話又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補這個加班津貼的話\n\n4\n00:01:00,816 --> 00:01:26,621\n按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個\n\n5\n00:01:27,602 --> 00:01:30,387\n有關詐騙的社會問題就是自然人憑證遭到濫用\n\n6\n00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:51,528\n那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示\n\n7\n00:01:57,894 --> 00:02:24,256\n這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎\n\n8\n00:02:25,287 --> 00:02:51,350\n那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢\n\n9\n00:02:52,513 --> 00:03:12,527\n沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很\n\n10\n00:03:13,368 --> 00:03:38,368\n重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部\n\n11\n00:03:39,909 --> 00:03:56,343\n也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低\n\n12\n00:03:59,734 --> 00:04:11,608\n好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶\n\n13\n00:04:17,555 --> 00:04:36,728\n那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分呢現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會\n\n14\n00:04:39,109 --> 00:04:42,471\n暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基署裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布\n\n15\n00:05:00,543 --> 00:05:16,058\n好謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶\n\n16\n00:05:16,658 --> 00:05:45,106\n就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定\n\n17\n00:05:46,266 --> 00:06:08,674\n那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個\n\n18\n00:06:10,528 --> 00:06:39,668\n由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明\n\n19\n00:06:41,269 --> 00:06:58,641\n然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在\n\n20\n00:07:03,364 --> 00:07:11,474\n詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人\n\n21\n00:07:12,625 --> 00:07:30,493\n到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯部長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸\n\n22\n00:07:34,975 --> 00:08:02,714\n結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把他拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶\n\n23\n00:08:05,275 --> 00:08:26,384\n大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個\n\n24\n00:08:30,546 --> 00:08:40,903\n詐騙集團給濫用啊剛剛你跟部長你知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之二五分之一二十趴就是因為這是就是\n\n25\n00:08:41,946 --> 00:09:05,446\n我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改\n\n26\n00:09:05,866 --> 00:09:25,127\n因為你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是\n\n27\n00:09:25,928 --> 00:09:52,675\n一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答\n\n28\n00:09:54,655 --> 00:10:07,220\n剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用\n\n29\n00:10:15,723 --> 00:10:28,786\n幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識\n\n30\n00:10:35,808 --> 00:10:41,390\n因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生\n\n31\n00:11:00,376 --> 00:11:17,065\n沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被跟漢的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶\n\n32\n00:11:18,266 --> 00:11:34,791\n銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款\n\n33\n00:11:36,099 --> 00:11:56,811\n的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分喔那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那有沒有你們有沒有想說這個這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦副辦停辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用\n\n34\n00:11:57,771 --> 00:12:15,341\n那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調由開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理\n\n35\n00:12:19,605 --> 00:12:41,718\n所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險\n\n36\n00:12:46,721 --> 00:13:10,619\n再次希望人民好不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一了本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證\n\n37\n00:13:12,247 --> 00:13:18,980\n好謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5387\t10432\t好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉思芳部長劉部長有請好\n13513\t42351\t好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多五天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益那接下來我們明年還有這個消防節是1月15號1月19號也會全國也會全部的這個消防員放假對嗎\n44674\t59895\t報告消防消防節當然是消防人但是不可能全部消防人都放假就是會輪班啦會輪班他們會按照譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分的話又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補這個加班津貼的話\n60816\t86621\t按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個\n87602\t90387\t有關詐騙的社會問題就是自然人憑證遭到濫用\n92830\t111528\t那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示\n117894\t144256\t這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎\n145287\t171350\t那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢\n172513\t192527\t沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很\n193368\t218368\t重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部\n219909\t236343\t也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低\n239734\t251608\t好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶\n257555\t276728\t那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分呢現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會\n279109\t282471\t暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基署裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布\n300543\t316058\t好謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶\n316658\t345106\t就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定\n346266\t368674\t那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個\n370528\t399668\t由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明\n401269\t418641\t然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在\n423364\t431474\t詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人\n432625\t450493\t到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯 部長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸\n454975\t482714\t結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把他拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶\n485275\t506384\t大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個\n510546\t520903\t詐騙集團給濫用啊剛剛你跟部長你知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之二五分之一二十趴就是因為這是就是\n521946\t545446\t我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改\n545866\t565127\t因為你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是\n565928\t592675\t一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答\n594655\t607220\t剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用\n615723\t628786\t幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識\n635808\t641390\t因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生\n660376\t677065\t沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被跟漢的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶\n678266\t694791\t銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款\n696099\t716811\t的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分喔那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那有沒有你們有沒有想說這個這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦副辦停辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用\n717771\t735341\t那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調由開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理\n739605\t761718\t所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險\n766721\t790619\t再次希望人民好 不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一了本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是 我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證\n792247\t798980\t好 謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請\n","txt":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉思芳部長劉部長有請好\n好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多五天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益那接下來我們明年還有這個消防節是1月15號1月19號也會全國也會全部的這個消防員放假對嗎\n報告消防消防節當然是消防人但是不可能全部消防人都放假就是會輪班啦會輪班他們會按照譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分的話又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補這個加班津貼的話\n按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個\n有關詐騙的社會問題就是自然人憑證遭到濫用\n那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示\n這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎\n那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢\n沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很\n重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部\n也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低\n好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶\n那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分呢現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會\n暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基署裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布\n好謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶\n就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定\n那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個\n由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明\n然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在\n詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人\n到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯 部長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸\n結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把他拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶\n大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個\n詐騙集團給濫用啊剛剛你跟部長你知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之二五分之一二十趴就是因為這是就是\n我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改\n因為你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是\n一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答\n剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用\n幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識\n因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生\n沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被跟漢的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶\n銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款\n的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分喔那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那有沒有你們有沒有想說這個這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦副辦停辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用\n那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調由開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理\n所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險\n再次希望人民好 不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一了本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是 我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證\n好 謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.387 --> 00:10.432\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉思芳部長劉部長有請好\n\n00:13.513 --> 00:42.351\n好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多五天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益那接下來我們明年還有這個消防節是1月15號1月19號也會全國也會全部的這個消防員放假對嗎\n\n00:44.674 --> 00:59.895\n報告消防消防節當然是消防人但是不可能全部消防人都放假就是會輪班啦會輪班他們會按照譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分的話又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補這個加班津貼的話\n\n01:00.816 --> 01:26.621\n按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個\n\n01:27.602 --> 01:30.387\n有關詐騙的社會問題就是自然人憑證遭到濫用\n\n01:32.830 --> 01:51.528\n那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示\n\n01:57.894 --> 02:24.256\n這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎\n\n02:25.287 --> 02:51.350\n那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢\n\n02:52.513 --> 03:12.527\n沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很\n\n03:13.368 --> 03:38.368\n重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部\n\n03:39.909 --> 03:56.343\n也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低\n\n03:59.734 --> 04:11.608\n好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶\n\n04:17.555 --> 04:36.728\n那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分呢現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會\n\n04:39.109 --> 04:42.471\n暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基署裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布\n\n05:00.543 --> 05:16.058\n好謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶\n\n05:16.658 --> 05:45.106\n就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定\n\n05:46.266 --> 06:08.674\n那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個\n\n06:10.528 --> 06:39.668\n由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明\n\n06:41.269 --> 06:58.641\n然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在\n\n07:03.364 --> 07:11.474\n詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人\n\n07:12.625 --> 07:30.493\n到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯部長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸\n\n07:34.975 --> 08:02.714\n結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把他拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶\n\n08:05.275 --> 08:26.384\n大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個\n\n08:30.546 --> 08:40.903\n詐騙集團給濫用啊剛剛你跟部長你知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之二五分之一二十趴就是因為這是就是\n\n08:41.946 --> 09:05.446\n我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改\n\n09:05.866 --> 09:25.127\n因為你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是\n\n09:25.928 --> 09:52.675\n一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答\n\n09:54.655 --> 10:07.220\n剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用\n\n10:15.723 --> 10:28.786\n幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識\n\n10:35.808 --> 10:41.390\n因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生\n\n11:00.376 --> 11:17.065\n沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被跟漢的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶\n\n11:18.266 --> 11:34.791\n銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款\n\n11:36.099 --> 11:56.811\n的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分喔那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那有沒有你們有沒有想說這個這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦副辦停辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用\n\n11:57.771 --> 12:15.341\n那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調由開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理\n\n12:19.605 --> 12:41.718\n所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險\n\n12:46.721 --> 13:10.619\n再次希望人民好不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一了本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證\n\n13:12.247 --> 13:18.980\n好謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.387,"end":10.432,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉思芳部長劉部長有請好"},{"start":13.513,"end":42.351,"text":"好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多五天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益那接下來我們明年還有這個消防節是1月15號1月19號也會全國也會全部的這個消防員放假對嗎"},{"start":44.674,"end":59.895,"text":"報告消防消防節當然是消防人但是不可能全部消防人都放假就是會輪班啦會輪班他們會按照譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分的話又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補這個加班津貼的話"},{"start":60.816,"end":86.621,"text":"按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個"},{"start":87.602,"end":90.387,"text":"有關詐騙的社會問題就是自然人憑證遭到濫用"},{"start":92.83,"end":111.528,"text":"那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示"},{"start":117.894,"end":144.256,"text":"這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎"},{"start":145.287,"end":171.35,"text":"那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢"},{"start":172.513,"end":192.527,"text":"沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很"},{"start":193.368,"end":218.368,"text":"重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部"},{"start":219.909,"end":236.343,"text":"也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低"},{"start":239.734,"end":251.608,"text":"好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶"},{"start":257.555,"end":276.728,"text":"那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分呢現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會"},{"start":279.109,"end":282.471,"text":"暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基署裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布"},{"start":300.543,"end":316.058,"text":"好謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶"},{"start":316.658,"end":345.106,"text":"就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定"},{"start":346.266,"end":368.674,"text":"那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個"},{"start":370.528,"end":399.668,"text":"由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明"},{"start":401.269,"end":418.641,"text":"然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在"},{"start":423.364,"end":431.474,"text":"詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人"},{"start":432.625,"end":450.493,"text":"到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯 部長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸"},{"start":454.975,"end":482.714,"text":"結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把他拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶"},{"start":485.275,"end":506.384,"text":"大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個"},{"start":510.546,"end":520.903,"text":"詐騙集團給濫用啊剛剛你跟部長你知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之二五分之一二十趴就是因為這是就是"},{"start":521.946,"end":545.446,"text":"我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改"},{"start":545.866,"end":565.127,"text":"因為你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是"},{"start":565.928,"end":592.675,"text":"一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答"},{"start":594.655,"end":607.22,"text":"剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用"},{"start":615.723,"end":628.786,"text":"幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識"},{"start":635.808,"end":641.39,"text":"因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生"},{"start":660.376,"end":677.065,"text":"沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被跟漢的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶"},{"start":678.266,"end":694.791,"text":"銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款"},{"start":696.099,"end":716.811,"text":"的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分喔那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那有沒有你們有沒有想說這個這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦副辦停辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用"},{"start":717.771,"end":735.341,"text":"那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調由開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理"},{"start":739.605,"end":761.718,"text":"所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險"},{"start":766.721,"end":790.619,"text":"再次希望人民好 不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一了本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是 我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證"},{"start":792.247,"end":798.98,"text":"好 謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":233,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時34分）謝謝主席。各位委員、各位官員，大家早。是不是有請劉世芳部長？"],["主席：有請劉部長。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝劉部長。劉部長，跟您報告一下，前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節，本席非常感謝主席，也感謝我們部長，在國定假日法制化以後，我們全國人民不管是多5天的國定假日，或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節，重視警消的權益，接下來我們明年還有1月19號消防節，全部的消防人員也會放假，對嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告，消防節當然是針對消防人員，但是不可能全部消防人員都放假。"],["張委員智倫：就是會輪班啦。"],["劉部長世芳：他們會按照……比如內勤是放假為主，外勤的部分會輪班，如果可以補班或是未來補加班津貼的話，都會按照人事行政的規矩來辦理，也就是比照警察來辦理，沒有問題。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。"],["劉部長世芳：同時我們有警察節、消防節，還有海巡節。"],["張委員智倫：還有海巡節？好，所以未來還有海巡節，我很樂見我們大家重視警消、海巡的權益，未來有機會調整加班的待遇，讓過長的工時問題可以被看到。","接下來，我要請教部長有關最近大家討論到很多有關詐騙的社會問題，就是自然人憑證遭到濫用，近期很多銀行發現自然人憑證開設數位存款帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高，主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義，詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身分證後，再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶，讓民眾最終成為人頭警示帳戶。根據報導顯示，他收取被害人的個資跟身分證件，然後取得同意書，到戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證，開立大量的銀行數位帳戶，目前自然人憑證在新辦和廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場，可是是不是在停用和復用的時候不用親自到場？等一下可以請部長說明，請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎？現在整個詐騙被害人的情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，在刑事局及包括數位發展部為主的這些案件，我們在處理反詐的時候都有蒐集相當的證據，委員所提到的部分，我們也有跟銀行局開會，大概的處置方式，我就直接先跟委員報告，還是委員需要再垂詢？"],["張委員智倫：沒關係，我簡單跟部長講一下，以現在來講，這是很嚴重的事情，如果被害人提供身分證或自然人憑證，加上自然人憑證的密碼時，就容易被詐騙集團利用，他們說要幫你辦信用貸款，現在有一個重要的點就是，現在這些詐騙集團可以不用到現場臨櫃辦理網路銀行帳戶，他可以在線上辦理，所以現在第一個是金管會的問題，因為它沒有一個監察開戶的機制，整個程序不夠嚴謹，沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是其他驗證的方式。第二個，內政部也要負相關的責任，他有沒有被通知這些被盜用……因為他們當時自然人憑證被拿取的時候，他們是否知道他們的帳戶被詐騙集團用為警示帳戶？所以我覺得內政部是不是也可以做相關的協助來讓詐騙集團的問題降低？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，謝謝委員的關心，我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶，即全部的警示帳戶有做基本的統計資料，目前以自然人憑證開立數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3,400戶，但是我們現在經過銀行局跟內政部溝通的結果，我們希望未來增加的機制是，如果銀行可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識，就可以先處理有偽冒風險的部分。對於警示帳戶的部分，現在我們正在研議，如果法規許可，我們可能會暫時凍結或是廢止他的自然人憑證，這部分是不是請給我們一些時間？讓內政部、銀行局還有農業部農金署，有很多民眾會到農會開立帳戶，先讓三方協調清楚以後，我們就會對外宣布。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長，感謝部長有跨部會的協調，不過以目前的狀況，我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別有講網路銀行的部分，警示帳戶總共是1萬6,000戶，高達3,400戶就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題，比例高達21%左右，也就是五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶是用自然人憑證去開立的，這是非常大的問題。剛剛我也提到了，最近新聞也在報導現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自辦理，可以用委託書來辦理，這是內政部去年（113年）11月15號的新規定，而這就是大家現在納悶跟討論的問題。","因為剛剛一開始有提到這些被害人要提供自己的身分證、自然人憑證及密碼等資訊才會在被詐騙的時候被開網路銀行，但現在只要提供身分證及雙證件加委託書或同意書，這些詐騙集團就可以到戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證，然後還可以取得自然人憑證附隨的密碼，因為拿到新卡的時候有時是生日當成密碼等等。針對這些問題，我們現在擔心的是內政部的便民措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的方式？因為詐騙集團發現這件事情，他就馬上開始利用。我們當時想的是因為金管會的查核機制不明，而內政部也沒有設想現在這個問題要如何解決，也就是說，為何新辦身分證的時候一定要本人去辦，自然人憑證卻不用？結果現在導致……"],["劉部長世芳：自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人。"],["張委員智倫：沒錯，但是部長你不清楚，雖然首次辦及廢止的時候要親自去戶政事務所辦理，可是現在詐騙集團就是利用你們在去年11月15號新頒的規定，停用及復用的時候不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦理，所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件及委託書就可以去辦理，這才是最大的問題。"],["劉部長世芳：我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊！就是說我們提供一個方便的政策，結果他隨便把自己的個資洩漏出去……"],["張委員智倫：沒錯、沒錯，部長你說的沒錯，他之所以被騙是因為他原本是要辦信貸，結果他不知道……就是因為政府好意的便民措施，結果詐騙集團把它拿去開銀行帳戶，這不是大家的問題，而這是可以討論的事情。從4月多的新聞到現在，我們擔心的是政府不作為，結果原本有八家銀行說停止用自然人憑證來開戶，現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶，我覺得這才是最大的問題。我有請助理到各部會去詢問並要求回復，結果各部會的態度讓我們感覺有一點點互踢皮球，大家並沒有看到這個問題的現實，現在的現實就是這項便民措施，也就是關於停用及復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人憑證這項措施，現在已經大量的被詐騙集團給濫用。相信部長也知道數字，現在整個警示帳戶總共一萬六千戶，當中有五分之一，也就是高達20%都是因為用自然人憑證所造成的，所以我才要請教部長這個問題。","另外還有一些問題，第一個，我們希望內政部可以通知金管會，對於這些被濫用戶頭的人，要跟大家說你不是要辦信貸，其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了。第二個，關於自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要進行相關的修改，因為你們讓詐騙集團拿到同意書就可以直接去辦自然人憑證來濫用，我覺得這是一個很大的問題，所以變成最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人，目前已經有十家銀行停用了，是不是可以請部長思考看看？","還有一個最重要的原因是因為一般國民去辦身分證的時候，不管是新辦或是遺失補辦，都要去戶政事務所當面申辦，為什麼自然人憑證馬上就可以辦並開帳戶？針對這個部分，為什麼內政部還堅持一定要給大家……當然提供便民措施是很好，不過對於現在已經被詐騙集團利用的部分，是不是內政部要趕快積極研議，免得警示帳戶越來越多？請部長回答。"],["劉部長世芳：剛剛我已經跟委員回復過，第一個，我們並沒有互踢皮球，其實在這個過程當中，內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會開會，如果自然人憑證開立的帳戶被列為警示帳戶的話，我們依照相關的規定可能會廢止或停用，先幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的自然人憑證使用者，也就是所謂的被害人。","另外有些銀行不願意幫忙做，但有些銀行卻比較願意幫忙的部分，也就是我剛剛所說的，譬如增加線上視訊及人臉辨識。有關人臉辨識的部分，其實在自然人憑證，尤其是行動自然人憑證的部分已經導入了，這部分如果銀行不願意用的話，它當然就喪失辨認的功能。針對這部分，內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通，因為這些都是他們的客戶，希望他們可以協助保障的資料客戶，不要有偽冒的風險發生。"],["張委員智倫：沒錯，因為您是內政部長，如果金管會要進行相關的監督機制我們非常認同。"],["劉部長世芳：銀行局。"],["張委員智倫：最後我再請教，針對內政部能做的部分：第一個是通知這些自然人憑證被更換的人，應該要提醒他們說，你的銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶或人頭帳戶做為洗錢之用。第二個是有關自然人憑證的審查制度，現在就是因為停用跟復用的時候，只要一張同意書及被害人的雙證件就可以辦理，他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信用貸款，可是後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了。針對不用臨櫃去申辦的部分，雖然這是政府的好意沒錯，但你們有沒有想過針對這部分進行調整？我剛剛已經跟部長報告過了，身分證不管是申辦、復辦、停辦，都要本人親自到現場申辦，為什麼自然人憑證不用？現在民眾和其他相關機關也會覺得很奇怪……"],["劉部長世芳：申辦跟停辦也是要到現場，那是在使用的過程當中被偽冒啊！"],["張委員智倫：沒有、沒有，在使用過程中停用及復用有委託書就可以啦！也就是不用臨櫃到現場啊！"],["劉部長世芳：是，所以我說要增加線上視訊及人臉辨識，這一部分就是銀行局需要協調有開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助處理。"],["張委員智倫：所以部長的意思是說，雖然你們開了這個門讓詐騙集團利用了，可是……"],["劉部長世芳：我們沒有這個意思，我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用。我們是一再呼籲不要把自己的個資隨意洩漏給詐騙集團，因為在詐騙的產業鏈裡面，最糟糕的部分就是政府機關站在希望讓大家可以比較方便使用的立場，但是有的人就會鑽這個漏洞，所以才會產生這樣的風險。"],["張委員智倫：部長，我了解便民措施當然是希望人民好，不過我剛剛也跟你報告過，現在的結果就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一，本席希望跟部長討論，你們可以回去研究，不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升。"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們正在進行當中，就是剛剛有跟委員報告，包括可能會直接廢止或停用已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長，希望我下次有機會再跟你討論的時候，這個比例能夠慢慢下降，然後你們可以提出具體的作法，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員。","下一位請張宏陸召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}}