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\"end\": 513.576, \"text\": \"好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 491.874, \"end\": 492.355, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 492.355, \"end\": 492.515, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 492.515, \"end\": 493.055, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 493.055, \"end\": 493.215, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 493.215, \"end\": 493.315, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 493.315, \"end\": 493.516, \"score\": 0.611}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 493.516, \"end\": 493.856, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"莊\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 493.856, \"end\": 494.517, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 494.517, \"end\": 494.797, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 494.797, \"end\": 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538.917, \"text\": \"進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 514.396, \"end\": 514.556, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 514.556, \"end\": 514.757, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 514.757, \"end\": 514.937, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 514.937, \"end\": 515.197, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 515.197, \"end\": 515.417, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 515.417, \"end\": 515.918, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 515.918, \"end\": 516.198, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 516.198, \"end\": 516.518, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 516.518, \"end\": 516.918, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 516.918, \"end\": 517.038, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 517.038, 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\"性\", \"start\": 585.71, \"end\": 585.73, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 585.73, \"end\": 585.81, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 585.81, \"end\": 585.83, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,779 --> 00:00:07,632\n好謝謝主席我們先請部長劉部長有請\n\n2\n00:00:15,291 --> 00:00:39,743\n好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你\n\n3\n00:00:40,283 --> 00:01:04,214\n那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府\n\n4\n00:01:05,274 --> 00:01:27,651\n為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果\n\n5\n00:01:32,535 --> 00:01:57,973\n才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款\n\n6\n00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:23,887\n我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎\n\n7\n00:02:27,089 --> 00:02:48,463\n完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶\n\n8\n00:02:49,884 --> 00:03:01,877\n沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題同時我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均平均是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%的狀況\n\n9\n00:03:05,501 --> 00:03:24,579\n只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源\n\n10\n00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:48,977\n所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75-25比例的原則請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策\n\n11\n00:03:49,977 --> 00:04:09,475\n絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者\n\n12\n00:04:10,256 --> 00:04:18,991\n提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法\n\n13\n00:04:22,332 --> 00:04:39,941\n好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租屋補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶\n\n14\n00:04:41,502 --> 00:04:44,584\n那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整\n\n15\n00:04:57,410 --> 00:05:17,216\n最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響\n\n16\n00:05:18,536 --> 00:05:29,340\n報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會\n\n17\n00:05:33,562 --> 00:05:57,100\n只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方\n\n18\n00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:14,361\n也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好謝謝部長的說明您講到一個重點其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談\n\n19\n00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:23,785\n那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果\n\n20\n00:06:34,571 --> 00:06:49,483\n我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長\n\n21\n00:06:52,425 --> 00:07:16,276\n討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度\n\n22\n00:07:16,676 --> 00:07:30,891\n因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生喔\n\n23\n00:07:33,424 --> 00:08:01,812\n好感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後那視莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有視莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他\n\n24\n00:08:02,372 --> 00:08:07,797\n要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施\n\n25\n00:08:11,874 --> 00:08:33,576\n好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段\n\n26\n00:08:34,396 --> 00:08:58,917\n進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的\n\n27\n00:08:59,477 --> 00:09:13,805\n沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的\n\n28\n00:09:15,126 --> 00:09:25,733\n那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分得非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿得到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債\n\n29\n00:09:39,582 --> 00:09:45,830\n所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好謝謝署長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5779\t7632\t好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長劉部長有請\n15291\t39743\t好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你\n40283\t64214\t那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府\n65274\t87651\t為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果\n92535\t117973\t才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款\n121155\t143887\t我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎\n147089\t168463\t完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶\n169884\t181877\t沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題同時我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均平均是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%的狀況\n185501\t204579\t只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源\n205640\t228977\t所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75-25比例的原則請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策\n229977\t249475\t絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者\n250256\t258991\t提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法\n262332\t279941\t好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租屋補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶\n281502\t284584\t那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整\n297410\t317216\t最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響\n318536\t329340\t報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會\n333562\t357100\t只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方\n357600\t374361\t也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好 謝謝部長的說明您講到一個重點其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談\n375540\t383785\t那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果\n394571\t409483\t我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長\n412425\t436276\t討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度\n436676\t450891\t因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生喔\n453424\t481812\t好 感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後那視莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有視莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他\n482372\t487797\t要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施\n491874\t513576\t好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段\n514396\t538917\t進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的\n539477\t553805\t沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的\n555126\t565733\t那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分得非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿得到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債\n579582\t585830\t所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好謝謝署長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長劉部長有請\n好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你\n那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府\n為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果\n才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款\n我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎\n完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶\n沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題同時我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均平均是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%的狀況\n只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源\n所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75-25比例的原則請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策\n絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者\n提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法\n好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租屋補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶\n那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整\n最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響\n報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會\n只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方\n也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好 謝謝部長的說明您講到一個重點其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談\n那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果\n我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長\n討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度\n因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生喔\n好 感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後那視莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有視莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他\n要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施\n好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段\n進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的\n沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的\n那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分得非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿得到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債\n所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好謝謝署長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.779 --> 00:07.632\n好謝謝主席我們先請部長劉部長有請\n\n00:15.291 --> 00:39.743\n好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你\n\n00:40.283 --> 01:04.214\n那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府\n\n01:05.274 --> 01:27.651\n為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果\n\n01:32.535 --> 01:57.973\n才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款\n\n02:01.155 --> 02:23.887\n我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎\n\n02:27.089 --> 02:48.463\n完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶\n\n02:49.884 --> 03:01.877\n沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題同時我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均平均是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%的狀況\n\n03:05.501 --> 03:24.579\n只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源\n\n03:25.640 --> 03:48.977\n所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75-25比例的原則請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策\n\n03:49.977 --> 04:09.475\n絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者\n\n04:10.256 --> 04:18.991\n提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法\n\n04:22.332 --> 04:39.941\n好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租屋補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶\n\n04:41.502 --> 04:44.584\n那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整\n\n04:57.410 --> 05:17.216\n最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響\n\n05:18.536 --> 05:29.340\n報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會\n\n05:33.562 --> 05:57.100\n只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方\n\n05:57.600 --> 06:14.361\n也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好謝謝部長的說明您講到一個重點其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談\n\n06:15.540 --> 06:23.785\n那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果\n\n06:34.571 --> 06:49.483\n我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長\n\n06:52.425 --> 07:16.276\n討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度\n\n07:16.676 --> 07:30.891\n因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生喔\n\n07:33.424 --> 08:01.812\n好感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後那視莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有視莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他\n\n08:02.372 --> 08:07.797\n要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施\n\n08:11.874 --> 08:33.576\n好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段\n\n08:34.396 --> 08:58.917\n進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的\n\n08:59.477 --> 09:13.805\n沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的\n\n09:15.126 --> 09:25.733\n那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分得非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿得到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債\n\n09:39.582 --> 09:45.830\n所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好謝謝署長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.779,"end":7.632,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長劉部長有請"},{"start":15.291,"end":39.743,"text":"好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你"},{"start":40.283,"end":64.214,"text":"那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府"},{"start":65.274,"end":87.651,"text":"為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果"},{"start":92.535,"end":117.973,"text":"才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款"},{"start":121.155,"end":143.887,"text":"我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎"},{"start":147.089,"end":168.463,"text":"完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶"},{"start":169.884,"end":181.877,"text":"沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題同時我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均平均是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%的狀況"},{"start":185.501,"end":204.579,"text":"只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源"},{"start":205.64,"end":228.977,"text":"所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75-25比例的原則請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策"},{"start":229.977,"end":249.475,"text":"絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者"},{"start":250.256,"end":258.991,"text":"提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法"},{"start":262.332,"end":279.941,"text":"好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租屋補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶"},{"start":281.502,"end":284.584,"text":"那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整"},{"start":297.41,"end":317.216,"text":"最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響"},{"start":318.536,"end":329.34,"text":"報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會"},{"start":333.562,"end":357.1,"text":"只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方"},{"start":357.6,"end":374.361,"text":"也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好 謝謝部長的說明您講到一個重點其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談"},{"start":375.54,"end":383.785,"text":"那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果"},{"start":394.571,"end":409.483,"text":"我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長"},{"start":412.425,"end":436.276,"text":"討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度"},{"start":436.676,"end":450.891,"text":"因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生喔"},{"start":453.424,"end":481.812,"text":"好 感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後那視莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有視莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他"},{"start":482.372,"end":487.797,"text":"要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施"},{"start":491.874,"end":513.576,"text":"好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段"},{"start":514.396,"end":538.917,"text":"進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的"},{"start":539.477,"end":553.805,"text":"沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的"},{"start":555.126,"end":565.733,"text":"那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分得非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿得到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債"},{"start":579.582,"end":585.83,"text":"所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好謝謝署長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":364,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時10分）謝謝主席，先請部長。"],["主席：有請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：部長早。先跟您請教一下，因為昨天租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分自籌的新聞出來後，確實全臺灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言，大家開始跟中央反映甚至是抗議，我也看到新北市侯友宜市長甚至覺得中央在惡整地方，說神也是你，鬼也是你。那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍、白立委：神也是你，鬼也是你，預算也是你砍的，現在又說地方沒錢，要中央繼續負擔，怎麼好意思呢？所以，我認為其實最苦不堪言、真的被惡整到的其實是像我們高雄市政府，為什麼呢？因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算，非常苦口婆心的勸他們說，這個財劃法重新劃分下去，對地方會造成非常大的影響，所以錢分下去了，事權一定要分下去，像這種租金補貼的事情，如果當時沒有討論清楚，未來一定都會受到影響。當初我們都講過啦！去年年底都講過啦！結果財劃法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出，對於相關的事權分配沒有任何討論，才造成了今天的結果。所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼？真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算，結果現在又要我們地方負擔20%的租金補貼自籌款，我們因為財劃法的關係已經受傷最重了、已經是全臺灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的政府，結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來，真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市。所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長，請問有一些地方政府說這叫做「中央請客，地方買單」，這句話屬實嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：完全相反吧，到今年年底之前，我們還是一樣，由地方政府審查租金補貼申請戶的資格，然後由中央直接撥款，所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力，讓租金補貼的政策可以嘉惠民眾，而到目前為止是72萬戶，沒有所謂的「中央請客，地方買單」的問題。同時，我剛剛在回答委員的時候也有提到，其實在110年之前，本來就是平均由中央負擔75%，地方負擔25%，只是在110年之後，因為中央的稅收比較高，所以當時的蘇院長就宣布，地方就不用再平均負擔25%的部分，但是到了今年3月的時候，財政收支劃分法重新修訂，讓地方政府獲得比較多的財源，所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年以前平均是75%、25%比例的原則，請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去。我想目前為止，我們的公文也是用這樣的方式表示，請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策，絕對沒有什麼「中央請客，地方買單」的問題。","甚至有些地方首長提到這是黑箱作業，如果是黑箱作業的話，也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業，我們不願意用這樣的角度切入，我們相信只要是合格者提供相關的證件出來，我們都一律讓他通過，沒有所謂黑箱作業，也有沒有所謂的「中央請客，地方買單」這樣錯誤的說法。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長非常完整的說明。我在這邊最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人請命，因為其實像剛剛部長說的，現在全臺灣申請的租屋補貼的戶數越來越多，以我們高雄市來說，就已經有9.2萬戶，雖然我覺得最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%，蠻無奈的，因為很辛苦啦，財劃法重新劃分之後，高雄市真的變得非常辛苦。我是希望接下來無論如何調整，最後的戶數不能變、金額不能變，這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長，未來租金補貼不管是人數、不管是金額，都不會因為這一次財劃法的修正、不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，在租金補貼的部分，內政部一定會非常努力，但是我們也希望縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談，因為有關財政收支劃分的部分，影響不會只限於租金補貼這件事情，應該還有其他的項目，只是不是內政部主管的，所以我們不便發言。未來如何在全部的預算分配上，可以讓福國利民的政策不管在中央或地方都順利的推動，可能就是我們最大的方向。就像我們所說的，這個租金補貼的政策，不分中央跟地方，也不分是哪一個黨籍的行政首長，我們希望受到最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續被照顧下去，甚至可以嘉惠更多其他的人。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝部長的說明，您講到一個重點，其實最重要的是政院跟地方政府要坐下來談，為什麼沒有坐下來談？就是因為去年財劃法修正的時候，我們高雄市的陳其邁市長甚至親自來到財政委員會，結果他坐在那裡，也不讓他發言，就這樣不歡而散、就這樣三分鐘送出，才會導致今天的結果。我真的是越講越氣，這個已經講了一年了，結果財劃法造成的惡果，現在是全臺灣的人民都要共同承受，我也替我們地方的年輕人感到非常心疼。謝謝部長，先請回。","我要跟署長討論上一次提到的裝修蟑螂的問題，也非常感謝署長，後來我們是坐下來細緻的把相關規範又看了一次，討論了一次，我認為已經有比較明確的方向，就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面，把應記載及不得記載的事項詳細的列出來，就目前國土署的版本有23條，我要問的第一個是進度，因為從去年1月就已經把草案公告了，可是到現在一年多過去了，這個草案也沒有新的進度，這件事非常可惜，這中間可能都還有新的受害者產生。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員的關心，的確因為我們在去年公告以後，室裝公會也有提出非常多意見，基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定，但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益，一定要把應記載、不得記載事項的內容載明清楚，我們從去年4月就請他們開始表達意見，但是到現在室裝公會還沒有提出來。我們已經重新發函給他們，要求他們在這個月底一定要明確的表達意見，否則我們就會進行法案的審查。"],["黃委員捷：好，6月底嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：對。會直接進行審查之後，發布實施。"],["黃委員捷：拜託署長再跟室裝公會多加溝通，因為像住宅消保會，他們也都提出了一個我覺得蠻好的版本，就是他們的契約書裡面有一個第三方的信託專戶，等於是消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶，第一階段進度完成了，驗收再請款，第二階段完成了，驗收、請款，這樣陸陸續續的請款，才不會像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢，廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了，導致受害者求償無門，每次都是這樣。所以我認為一部分、一部分的撥款是非常必要的，沒有拿到錢就無利可圖，所以我認為第三方信託專戶是一個可以參考的模式，如果真的做不到，是不是可以在契約裡面訂得更詳細？其實在我看來，國土署的版本裡面是有的，把它分得非常多期，看起來反而是業者會覺得分太多期了，對他們來講，相對沒有保障。但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障的，因為它也保障廠商拿得到錢，只要施工，就確保廠商絕對拿得到錢，也不會在廠商施工完畢之後，反而是業主跟廠商欠債。我認為這對雙方來說都是多一層保障，希望未來可以朝這個方向達到共識，好嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，我們內部會再討論這個做法的可行性。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝署長。"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}}