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61.334, \"end\": 61.494, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 61.494, \"end\": 61.714, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 61.714, \"end\": 61.874, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 61.874, \"end\": 61.995, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 61.995, \"end\": 62.155, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 62.155, \"end\": 62.435, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 62.435, \"end\": 62.575, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 62.575, \"end\": 62.995, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 62.995, \"end\": 63.115, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 63.115, \"end\": 63.515, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 63.515, \"end\": 64.336, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 64.336, \"end\": 64.656, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 64.656, \"end\": 64.816, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"策\", 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70.84, \"end\": 71.22, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 71.22, \"end\": 71.4, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 71.4, \"end\": 72.121, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 72.121, \"end\": 72.241, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 72.241, \"end\": 72.421, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.421, \"end\": 72.521, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 72.521, \"end\": 73.482, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 73.482, \"end\": 73.602, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 73.602, \"end\": 73.722, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.722, \"end\": 73.822, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 73.822, \"end\": 74.002, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 74.002, \"end\": 74.222, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 74.222, \"end\": 74.643, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 74.643, \"end\": 74.763, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 74.763, \"end\": 74.883, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 74.883, \"end\": 74.983, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 74.983, \"end\": 75.383, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 75.383, \"end\": 76.023, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.023, \"end\": 76.304, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 76.304, \"end\": 76.944, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 76.944, \"end\": 77.584, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 77.584, \"end\": 78.285, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 78.285, \"end\": 78.425, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 78.425, \"end\": 78.805, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 78.805, \"end\": 78.925, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 78.925, \"end\": 79.085, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 79.085, \"end\": 79.245, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 79.245, \"end\": 79.466, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 79.466, \"end\": 80.086, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 80.086, \"end\": 80.406, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 80.406, \"end\": 80.586, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 80.586, \"end\": 80.846, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 80.846, \"end\": 81.147, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 81.147, \"end\": 81.347, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 81.347, \"end\": 81.947, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 81.947, \"end\": 82.187, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 82.187, \"end\": 82.407, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 82.407, \"end\": 82.888, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 82.888, \"end\": 83.028, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 83.028, \"end\": 83.048, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 84.216, \"end\": 89.084, \"text\": \"進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來 署長感謝那過程當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 84.216, \"end\": 84.697, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 84.697, \"end\": 84.857, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 84.857, \"end\": 84.977, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 84.977, \"end\": 85.118, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.118, \"end\": 85.278, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 85.278, \"end\": 85.378, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 85.378, \"end\": 85.558, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 85.558, \"end\": 85.679, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 85.679, \"end\": 85.759, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 85.759, \"end\": 85.999, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 85.999, \"end\": 86.56, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 86.56, \"end\": 86.901, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 86.901, \"end\": 87.502, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 87.502, \"end\": 87.942, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 87.942, \"end\": 88.163, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 88.163, \"end\": 88.203, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 88.203, \"end\": 88.483, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 88.483, \"end\": 88.703, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.703, \"end\": 88.924, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 88.924, \"end\": 89.064, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 89.064, \"end\": 89.084, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 97.562, \"end\": 123.579, \"text\": \"我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 97.562, \"end\": 97.742, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 97.742, \"end\": 97.903, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 97.903, \"end\": 98.223, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 98.223, \"end\": 98.843, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 98.843, \"end\": 98.983, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 98.983, \"end\": 99.424, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"住\", 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\"市\", \"start\": 103.906, \"end\": 104.066, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.066, \"end\": 104.687, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 104.687, \"end\": 105.007, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 105.007, \"end\": 105.147, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 105.147, \"end\": 105.207, \"score\": 0.357}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 105.207, \"end\": 105.527, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 105.527, \"end\": 105.667, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 105.667, \"end\": 105.828, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 105.828, \"end\": 106.028, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 106.028, \"end\": 106.248, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 106.248, \"end\": 106.508, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 106.508, \"end\": 106.688, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 106.688, \"end\": 106.828, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.828, \"end\": 106.948, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 106.948, \"end\": 107.128, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 107.128, \"end\": 107.309, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 107.309, \"end\": 107.509, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 107.509, \"end\": 108.109, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 108.109, \"end\": 108.289, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 108.289, \"end\": 108.429, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 108.429, \"end\": 108.89, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 108.89, \"end\": 109.05, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 109.05, \"end\": 109.17, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 109.17, \"end\": 109.29, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 109.29, \"end\": 109.49, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 109.49, \"end\": 110.17, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 110.17, \"end\": 110.33, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 110.33, \"end\": 110.471, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 110.471, \"end\": 110.691, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 110.691, \"end\": 110.831, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 110.831, \"end\": 111.111, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 111.111, \"end\": 111.271, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 111.271, \"end\": 111.471, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 111.471, \"end\": 111.931, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 111.931, \"end\": 112.432, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 112.432, \"end\": 112.512, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 112.512, \"end\": 112.592, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 112.592, \"end\": 112.692, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 112.692, \"end\": 112.752, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 118.496, \"end\": 118.796, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 118.796, \"end\": 118.936, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 118.936, \"end\": 119.036, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 119.036, \"end\": 119.196, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 119.196, \"end\": 119.376, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 119.376, \"end\": 119.536, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 119.536, \"end\": 119.736, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 119.736, \"end\": 120.017, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"介\", \"start\": 120.017, \"end\": 120.197, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 120.197, \"end\": 120.357, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 120.357, \"end\": 120.517, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 120.517, \"end\": 120.997, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 120.997, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"博\", \"start\": 614.718, \"end\": 614.758, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"士\", \"start\": 614.758, \"end\": 614.858, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 614.858, \"end\": 614.958, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 614.958, \"end\": 615.038, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 615.038, \"end\": 615.098, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 615.098, \"end\": 615.178, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 615.178, \"end\": 615.198, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,059 --> 00:00:12,722\n部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議\n\n2\n00:00:36,517 --> 00:00:52,268\n台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討\n\n3\n00:00:58,072 --> 00:01:23,048\n所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能\n\n4\n00:01:24,216 --> 00:01:29,084\n進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來署長感謝那過程當中\n\n5\n00:01:37,562 --> 00:02:03,579\n我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做\n\n6\n00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:17,995\n實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然\n\n7\n00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:35,472\n要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任場驗\n\n8\n00:02:36,733 --> 00:02:56,064\n那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個\n\n9\n00:02:58,877 --> 00:03:17,256\n整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點\n\n10\n00:03:19,295 --> 00:03:46,389\n附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住入中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間\n\n11\n00:03:47,213 --> 00:04:03,641\n它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情\n\n12\n00:04:04,468 --> 00:04:29,978\n那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面\n\n13\n00:04:31,192 --> 00:04:58,127\n高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啊不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多的就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少\n\n14\n00:04:59,178 --> 00:05:13,138\n高雄的委員最挺中央的預算那高雄的高雄市政府債財化法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的這個租金補貼的比例卻跟\n\n15\n00:05:14,755 --> 00:05:30,816\n台中卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多我覺得這些都是不公平的現象那這問題都出在哪裡出在我們財化法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財化法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼\n\n16\n00:05:32,137 --> 00:05:57,869\n這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市台北市才化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億\n\n17\n00:06:01,067 --> 00:06:16,103\n他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應\n\n18\n00:06:26,192 --> 00:06:37,904\n部長我重新說一次台北市在新的財化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長\n\n19\n00:06:47,463 --> 00:07:09,948\n是到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已那18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調\n\n20\n00:07:12,208 --> 00:07:27,637\n我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候就是地方政府審查跟核定的中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受\n\n21\n00:07:34,961 --> 00:07:51,654\n因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這些名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過\n\n22\n00:07:53,976 --> 00:08:22,115\n但是現在中央確實碰到3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理\n\n23\n00:08:23,155 --> 00:08:52,638\n謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新青安還有在執行嗎對新青安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在\n\n24\n00:08:53,211 --> 00:09:01,762\n核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題\n\n25\n00:09:02,813 --> 00:09:26,560\n那何待不下的原因那當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到\n\n26\n00:09:27,140 --> 00:09:52,107\n根文報告啦因為這的確都是這個財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的這個個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個這個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核他會有一定的標準沒有沒有我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛\n\n27\n00:09:56,081 --> 00:10:15,198\n是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博士委員下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9059\t12722\t部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議\n36517\t52268\t台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討\n58072\t83048\t所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能\n84216\t89084\t進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來 署長感謝那過程當中\n97562\t123579\t我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做\n124480\t137995\t實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然\n139356\t155472\t要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任場驗\n156733\t176064\t那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個\n178877\t197256\t整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點\n199295\t226389\t附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住入中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間\n227213\t243641\t它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情\n244468\t269978\t那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面\n271192\t298127\t高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啊不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多的就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少\n299178\t313138\t高雄的委員最挺中央的預算那高雄的高雄市政府債財化法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的這個租金補貼的比例卻跟\n314755\t330816\t台中卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多我覺得這些都是不公平的現象那這問題都出在哪裡出在我們財化法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財化法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼\n332137\t357869\t這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市台北市才化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億\n361067\t376103\t他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應\n386192\t397904\t部長我重新說一次台北市在新的財化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長\n407463\t429948\t是 到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已那18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調\n432208\t447637\t我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候就是地方政府審查跟核定的中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受\n454961\t471654\t因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這些名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過\n473976\t502115\t但是現在中央確實碰到3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理\n503155\t532638\t謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新青安還有在執行嗎對新青安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在\n533211\t541762\t核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題\n542813\t566560\t那何待不下的原因那當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到\n567140\t592107\t根文報告啦因為這的確都是這個財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的這個個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個這個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核他會有一定的標準沒有沒有我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛\n596081\t615198\t是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博士委員下一位我們請\n","txt":"部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議\n台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討\n所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能\n進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來 署長感謝那過程當中\n我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做\n實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然\n要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任場驗\n那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個\n整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點\n附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住入中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間\n它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情\n那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面\n高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啊不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多的就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少\n高雄的委員最挺中央的預算那高雄的高雄市政府債財化法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的這個租金補貼的比例卻跟\n台中卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多我覺得這些都是不公平的現象那這問題都出在哪裡出在我們財化法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財化法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼\n這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市台北市才化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億\n他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應\n部長我重新說一次台北市在新的財化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長\n是 到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已那18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調\n我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候就是地方政府審查跟核定的中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受\n因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這些名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過\n但是現在中央確實碰到3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理\n謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新青安還有在執行嗎對新青安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在\n核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題\n那何待不下的原因那當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到\n根文報告啦因為這的確都是這個財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的這個個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個這個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核他會有一定的標準沒有沒有我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛\n是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博士委員下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.059 --> 00:12.722\n部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議\n\n00:36.517 --> 00:52.268\n台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討\n\n00:58.072 --> 01:23.048\n所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能\n\n01:24.216 --> 01:29.084\n進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來署長感謝那過程當中\n\n01:37.562 --> 02:03.579\n我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做\n\n02:04.480 --> 02:17.995\n實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然\n\n02:19.356 --> 02:35.472\n要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任場驗\n\n02:36.733 --> 02:56.064\n那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個\n\n02:58.877 --> 03:17.256\n整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點\n\n03:19.295 --> 03:46.389\n附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住入中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間\n\n03:47.213 --> 04:03.641\n它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情\n\n04:04.468 --> 04:29.978\n那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面\n\n04:31.192 --> 04:58.127\n高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啊不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多的就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少\n\n04:59.178 --> 05:13.138\n高雄的委員最挺中央的預算那高雄的高雄市政府債財化法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的這個租金補貼的比例卻跟\n\n05:14.755 --> 05:30.816\n台中卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多我覺得這些都是不公平的現象那這問題都出在哪裡出在我們財化法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財化法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼\n\n05:32.137 --> 05:57.869\n這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市台北市才化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億\n\n06:01.067 --> 06:16.103\n他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應\n\n06:26.192 --> 06:37.904\n部長我重新說一次台北市在新的財化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長\n\n06:47.463 --> 07:09.948\n是到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已那18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調\n\n07:12.208 --> 07:27.637\n我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候就是地方政府審查跟核定的中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受\n\n07:34.961 --> 07:51.654\n因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這些名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過\n\n07:53.976 --> 08:22.115\n但是現在中央確實碰到3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理\n\n08:23.155 --> 08:52.638\n謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新青安還有在執行嗎對新青安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在\n\n08:53.211 --> 09:01.762\n核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題\n\n09:02.813 --> 09:26.560\n那何待不下的原因那當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到\n\n09:27.140 --> 09:52.107\n根文報告啦因為這的確都是這個財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的這個個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個這個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核他會有一定的標準沒有沒有我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛\n\n09:56.081 --> 10:15.198\n是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博士委員下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.059,"end":12.722,"text":"部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議"},{"start":36.517,"end":52.268,"text":"台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討"},{"start":58.072,"end":83.048,"text":"所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能"},{"start":84.216,"end":89.084,"text":"進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來 署長感謝那過程當中"},{"start":97.562,"end":123.579,"text":"我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的對我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做"},{"start":124.48,"end":137.995,"text":"實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然"},{"start":139.356,"end":155.472,"text":"要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任場驗"},{"start":156.733,"end":176.064,"text":"那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個"},{"start":178.877,"end":197.256,"text":"整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點"},{"start":199.295,"end":226.389,"text":"附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住入中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間"},{"start":227.213,"end":243.641,"text":"它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情"},{"start":244.468,"end":269.978,"text":"那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面"},{"start":271.192,"end":298.127,"text":"高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啊不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多的就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少"},{"start":299.178,"end":313.138,"text":"高雄的委員最挺中央的預算那高雄的高雄市政府債財化法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的這個租金補貼的比例卻跟"},{"start":314.755,"end":330.816,"text":"台中卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多我覺得這些都是不公平的現象那這問題都出在哪裡出在我們財化法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財化法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼"},{"start":332.137,"end":357.869,"text":"這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市台北市才化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億"},{"start":361.067,"end":376.103,"text":"他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應"},{"start":386.192,"end":397.904,"text":"部長我重新說一次台北市在新的財化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長"},{"start":407.463,"end":429.948,"text":"是 到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已那18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調"},{"start":432.208,"end":447.637,"text":"我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候就是地方政府審查跟核定的中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受"},{"start":454.961,"end":471.654,"text":"因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這些名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過"},{"start":473.976,"end":502.115,"text":"但是現在中央確實碰到3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理"},{"start":503.155,"end":532.638,"text":"謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新青安還有在執行嗎對新青安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在"},{"start":533.211,"end":541.762,"text":"核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題"},{"start":542.813,"end":566.56,"text":"那何待不下的原因那當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到"},{"start":567.14,"end":592.107,"text":"根文報告啦因為這的確都是這個財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的這個個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個這個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核他會有一定的標準沒有沒有我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛"},{"start":596.081,"end":615.198,"text":"是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博士委員下一位我們請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":489,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時48分）部長先休息，我先請署長。"],["主席：請署長。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝內政委員會回歸正常，來討論公寓大廈公設點交爭議，還有住宅法的審議。我要先就社宅出現的一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員柏毅：臺中自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被臺中審計處發文要求改善的內容，說它的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚，影響公共品質，這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討？所以我要建議國土署，現在我們全國有非常多的社宅正在興建，政策上應該不會到審計處來發現問題，應該是由國土署相關的這些單位，不管是在設計或是在建造或是在驗收的時候，就應該要發現這些相關的事情，尤其有大量的這些中國進口，甚至可能進口到臺灣變成國產的這種現象，希望國土署可以解決這個問題，不要到審計處。請署長說明一下。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員。這過程中我們的作業是這樣，住都中心負責辦理設計跟發包……"],["李委員柏毅：這個案例是臺中市的，不是住都中心的。"],["吳署長欣修：對，我說明一下國土署目前的作法，我們自己中央的社宅大致上由國土署擔任最主要的PCM，有些案子是擔任監造。我們在這過程當中，其實都有一些嚴謹的標準，國土署也都會在過程中介入，所以不會只有住都中心在做，國土署也會在後面做實質的監督，所以過程當中，我們這些廠商施作的廠牌部分，都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築工程的標準會是完全一致，這一點在過程中不會改變。","當然要防止這類部分的品管，其實很關鍵就是在於廠驗跟實際現地施作的驗收，這兩件事一定要落實，因為過去有比較多的行政單位過度信任廠驗，但是會忽略了有時候廠驗跟實地施作的廠牌會不一致，這一點我們也會繼續來要求。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝署長。如果這個要求，還包含能監督到地方政府自己蓋的社會住宅，我想這是你們要持續去努力的方向。","接下來，我們今天都是在講居住正義，今天的排審是針對公共設施的點交，其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候，也講到了一個很重要的點，附近的居民及里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅一樓的公共空間，是不是應該要作為各方面的使用？在聽取地方意見的時候，請住都中心也儘量把這些意見納入。其實很重要的一個觀念，我可以接受花敬群董事長對於社宅公共空間的概念，就是社宅的公共空間不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間，也是整個社區的公共空間，走進這個社宅，不管是它的日照、公托等等，它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間，這是必須要繼續推廣的事情。","我在這邊也要邀請劉世芳部長，崇實社宅853戶已經即將要完工落成，部長不知道什麼時候會來看？有關高雄的居住正義，我必須要講一下，今天大家在講的租金補貼，目前內政部國土署把這些縣市負擔的比例寫在這，高雄的委員還是覺得不公平，不公平的地方在哪裡？高雄的社宅其實是全臺灣規劃蓋最多，為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人有社宅可以住，雖然高雄的規劃最多，但高雄在財劃法修正之後拿到的補助卻是最少，高雄的委員最挺中央的預算，結果高雄市政府在財劃法拿到最少的補助，而高雄租金補貼的比例，卻跟桃園差不多，也跟臺中差沒有很多，我覺得這些都是不公平的現象。這問題都出在哪裡？出在我們在修財劃法的時候，並沒有把這些事情拿來討論，財劃法只是劃下去，並沒有把租金補貼到底中央要付多少、地方要付多少拿來討論，我相信如果有討論的話，不會是今天這個結果。","所以在這邊必須要提出來，這對高雄不公平之外，我也要批評拿最多的臺北市、我也要批評拿最多的臺中市，臺北市在新的財劃法多拿四百多億，在租金補貼只需要多拿出18.8億，它多拿四百多億喔！但是它租金補貼僅須負擔18.8億，居然說中央在欺負它，我覺得這樣不行啦，這是金孫嘛！這根本是金孫，搶錢不辦事、踐踏年輕人，太不合理了，我想請部長來回應。部長，我重新說一次，臺北市在新的財劃法，明年度將多拿四百多億，現在內政部要求臺北市租金補貼負擔18.8億，蔣金孫居然說：不公平。部長，這不是搶錢不辦事嗎？這不是踐踏年輕人嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：到目前為止，臺北市在六都當中申請租金補助大概是最少的啦！所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已，這18.5億對於財政收支統籌分配款最多補助的臺北市來講，其實它應該所占的比例不會太高，更何況我還是一再強調，我們從今年開始，地方上在申請租金補貼的時候，就是由地方政府審查跟核定的，而中央只是負責抽查，主要看裡面有沒有資格不符合，所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合上批評中央的部分，我覺得我很難接受，因為我認為租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力，他們通過了這些名單，其實中央政府都非常友善，根本也沒有特別去刪，既然沒有特別刪的話，需要補助多少？到今年之前，幾乎百分之百都補貼、幾乎百分之百都給過，但是現在中央確實在3月財政收支劃分法通過了以後，對於我們來講，負擔的比重太高，已經沒有財源的基礎之下，我們希望回復到原來110年以前這樣的比例，其實並不為過，但是最後要怎樣做才可以有比較好的分配比例，恐怕還是要請行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論，我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝部長。其實這些都是財劃法在修正的時候，應該要討論的事情。部長請回，我最後再請教署長一件事情，新青安還有在執行嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：有，新青安還有繼續在執行。"],["李委員柏毅：新青安執行到什麼時候？"],["吳署長欣修：我們是到明年6月底之前，6月底過後，我們就不再……"],["李委員柏毅：建議國土署要找央行。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員柏毅：因為現在銀行在核貸的這些過程裡面，不斷會傳出有一些年輕人過去或是已經申請新青安，但現在核貸不下來的問題，核貸不下來的原因當然有很多，其中一個是年收入會被拿來做放大討論，年收入到底多少適用新青安？我認為國土署跟央行要有一定的政策，明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安購屋的民眾可以清楚地了解到底到銀行貸不貸得到。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。跟委員報告，因為這的確都是財政部跟金管會在掌控，但是就我的了解，的確沒有所謂個人年薪的問題，當然在相關授信或是建案本身的問題，我想都是財政部跟金管會針對授信的狀態及查核，他們會有一定的標準。"],["李委員柏毅：沒有。我要跟你討論的不是財政部及金管會的問題，其實租金補貼還是編在你們那裡嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員柏毅：你會看到大量租金補貼的需求降低的原因，是因為在那裡審不過嘛！我們既然要繼續推動這個政策，那裡審不過的話，確實需要做一些詳細的討論，不是只有用銀行的水位來討論，還是要為這些購屋民眾來想一想，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。這到時候在討論的時候，我們會反映，謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員。","下一位請吳琪銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}}