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\"start\": 576.653, \"end\": 576.774, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 576.774, \"end\": 576.915, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 576.915, \"end\": 576.935, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,059 --> 00:00:09,801\n主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長劉部長有請國務委員你好部長部長你好因為過去才我方不充分大家這樣溝通來做事現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長大家都\n\n2\n00:00:32,473 --> 00:00:45,924\n針對我們的租金補貼大家提出的意見我們過去因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本市關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在剛好\n\n3\n00:00:59,949 --> 00:01:12,587\n剛才他的廚藝都很高嘛所以不是在年輕人他自動去負擔的你自然不提你如果再維修這就會做成在年輕人做成在沒處好大的人\n\n4\n00:01:13,086 --> 00:01:41,667\n他們的衝擊是非常大所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過才造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說,不管台北市、新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家接下去,大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施\n\n5\n00:01:42,707 --> 00:01:48,190\n絕對不能說因為這樣就來有補貼這個部分來維修這樣對我們這個屬於說比較艱苦的人來作出的他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分我請保重應該保重\n\n6\n00:02:03,823 --> 00:02:16,990\n就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議,看要怎麼共同改觀,好不好?報告委員,我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程,那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是我也要向委員報告,因為每年一開始,要用新的財政收支為分範\n\n7\n00:02:25,655 --> 00:02:42,662\n新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是三月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列一百一十五年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文\n\n8\n00:02:45,883 --> 00:02:54,151\n讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備\n\n9\n00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:17,184\n因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候我們很希望說可能\n\n10\n00:03:20,345 --> 00:03:38,469\n大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講平均來講縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮\n\n11\n00:03:46,051 --> 00:04:04,325\n沒有這件事情只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的譬如說以新北市來講\n\n12\n00:04:05,166 --> 00:04:25,295\n新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主\n\n13\n00:04:28,796 --> 00:04:34,860\n來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好一律柏定這個部分我本省是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去合作我是本省的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少\n\n14\n00:04:57,452 --> 00:05:14,758\n我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢好柏中你先回來我問柏中來\n\n15\n00:05:18,704 --> 00:05:46,688\n委員好好師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這次的土生在本市的村區\n\n16\n00:05:47,421 --> 00:06:00,690\n土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確\n\n17\n00:06:09,054 --> 00:06:18,104\n讓我們很多老舊房子他們可以來做補強不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是感謝委員這是耐震補強的部分雖然\n\n18\n00:06:23,987 --> 00:06:34,393\n前幾天這個申請量不太大但是我想這是一個對我們這個勞工戶有很大的幫助的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做得更安全這部分我們的經費都有懸殊了第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是其實是今年這個\n\n19\n00:06:43,676 --> 00:06:50,701\n在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊溝是比較沒問題但是你是我們這麼久的廚房四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來\n\n20\n00:06:59,057 --> 00:07:05,345\n提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換\n\n21\n00:07:20,097 --> 00:07:43,107\n用這個安全和無障礙的設備做一個改善我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人他的環境會變得更好他會更安全我相信對這個古厝他沒有那麼多土耕的現在沒有那麼多土耕的總空間能夠建得更好的環境讓大家更容易住所以市長因為住在他們老舊的公寓大部分都是因為\n\n22\n00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:57,827\n有經濟能力要保住外星族所以說在這種它的結構已經超過三十年了尤其過去都是我們現在都十六五嘛以前都是剩下的嘛所以說它這個危險性這都是我們國土組織方面要去做協助甚至說補助還有尤其很多老人家大致四老五老的他們又沒有電腦\n\n23\n00:08:12,474 --> 00:08:22,701\n這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果大型行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。\n\n24\n00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:35,664\n有啦感謝委員開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦開始提醒政府像是台北新北現在也有在補助這本來在這個老宅延遲計劃裡面我們也有在努力希望大家這個公務大家如果協調有共識\n\n25\n00:08:49,498 --> 00:08:55,966\n這個相關的設置的標準,我們已經都慢慢放寬了,所以現在很多其實條件有,這個如果合得好,我相信可以補助他們來做這個電梯的這個設置,對這個大樓的使用比較方便\n\n26\n00:09:05,014 --> 00:09:21,224\n好這部份喔我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地你不可能在裡面跑所以外面喔這很多我們的法令要修改規定放寬讓他們可以去設立這樣我們炒這個風風大家來努力不然現在都卡在土地上因為都有麒麟地嘛是啦主要比較多有的是卡到圍莊啦這個大家要互相再來協調好謝謝感謝委員\n\n27\n00:09:36,653 --> 00:09:36,935\n謝謝吳清明委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6059\t9801\t主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長 劉部長有請國務委員你好 部長 部長你好因為過去才我方不充分大家這樣溝通來做事 現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長 大家都\n32473\t45924\t針對我們的租金補貼 大家提出的意見我們過去 因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛 前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本市關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來 這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在剛好\n59949\t72587\t剛才他的廚藝都很高嘛所以不是在年輕人他自動去負擔的你自然不提你如果再維修這就會做成在年輕人做成在沒處好大的人\n73086\t101667\t他們的衝擊是非常大所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過才造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說,不管台北市、新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家接下去,大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施\n102707\t108190\t絕對不能說因為這樣就來有補貼這個部分來維修這樣對我們這個屬於說比較艱苦的人來作出的他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分我請保重應該保重\n123823\t136990\t就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議,看要怎麼共同改觀,好不好?報告委員,我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程,那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是我也要向委員報告,因為每年一開始,要用新的財政收支為分範\n145655\t162662\t新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是三月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列一百一十五年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文\n165883\t174151\t讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備\n184700\t197184\t因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候我們很希望說可能\n200345\t218469\t大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講平均來講縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮\n226051\t244325\t沒有這件事情 只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢 我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的 譬如說以新北市來講\n245166\t265295\t新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主\n268796\t274860\t來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好 一律 柏定這個部分 我本省是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去合作我是本省的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少\n297452\t314758\t我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對 因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢 好 柏中你先回來 我問柏中來\n318704\t346688\t委員好好 師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡 總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這次的土生在本市的村區\n347421\t360690\t土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確\n369054\t378104\t讓我們很多老舊房子他們可以來做補強不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是 感謝委員這是耐震補強的部分雖然\n383987\t394393\t前幾天這個申請量不太大但是我想這是一個對我們這個勞工戶有很大的幫助的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做得更安全這部分我們的經費都有懸殊了第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是其實是今年這個\n403676\t410701\t在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊溝是比較沒問題但是你是我們這麼久的廚房四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來\n419057\t425345\t提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換\n440097\t463107\t用這個安全和無障礙的設備做一個改善 我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人 他的環境會變得更好他會更安全 我相信對這個古厝 他沒有那麼多土耕的現在沒有那麼多土耕的總空間 能夠建得更好的環境 讓大家更容易住所以 市長 因為住在他們老舊的公寓 大部分都是因為\n463840\t477827\t有經濟能力 要保住外星族所以說在這種 它的結構已經超過三十年了尤其過去都是 我們現在都十六五嘛 以前都是剩下的嘛所以說它這個危險性 這都是我們國土組織方面要去做協助甚至說補助 還有尤其很多老人家 大致四老五老的 他們又沒有電腦\n492474\t502701\t這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果大型行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。\n511260\t515664\t有啦 感謝委員 開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦開始提醒政府 像是台北新北現在也有在補助這本來在這個老宅延遲計劃裡面 我們也有在努力希望大家這個公務 大家如果協調有共識\n529498\t535966\t這個相關的設置的標準,我們已經都慢慢放寬了,所以現在很多其實條件有,這個如果合得好,我相信可以補助他們來做這個電梯的這個設置,對這個大樓的使用比較方便\n545014\t561224\t好 這部份喔 我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地你不可能在裡面跑所以外面喔 這很多我們的法令要修改規定放寬 讓他們可以去設立這樣我們炒這個風風 大家來努力不然現在都卡在土地上 因為都有麒麟地嘛是啦 主要比較多有的是卡到圍莊啦這個大家要互相再來協調好 謝謝感謝委員\n576653\t576935\t謝謝吳清明委員\n","txt":"主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長 劉部長有請國務委員你好 部長 部長你好因為過去才我方不充分大家這樣溝通來做事 現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長 大家都\n針對我們的租金補貼 大家提出的意見我們過去 因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛 前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本市關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來 這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在剛好\n剛才他的廚藝都很高嘛所以不是在年輕人他自動去負擔的你自然不提你如果再維修這就會做成在年輕人做成在沒處好大的人\n他們的衝擊是非常大所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過才造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說,不管台北市、新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家接下去,大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施\n絕對不能說因為這樣就來有補貼這個部分來維修這樣對我們這個屬於說比較艱苦的人來作出的他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分我請保重應該保重\n就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議,看要怎麼共同改觀,好不好?報告委員,我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程,那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是我也要向委員報告,因為每年一開始,要用新的財政收支為分範\n新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是三月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列一百一十五年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文\n讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備\n因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候我們很希望說可能\n大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講平均來講縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮\n沒有這件事情 只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢 我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的 譬如說以新北市來講\n新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主\n來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好 一律 柏定這個部分 我本省是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去合作我是本省的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少\n我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對 因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢 好 柏中你先回來 我問柏中來\n委員好好 師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡 總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這次的土生在本市的村區\n土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確\n讓我們很多老舊房子他們可以來做補強不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是 感謝委員這是耐震補強的部分雖然\n前幾天這個申請量不太大但是我想這是一個對我們這個勞工戶有很大的幫助的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做得更安全這部分我們的經費都有懸殊了第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是其實是今年這個\n在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊溝是比較沒問題但是你是我們這麼久的廚房四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來\n提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換\n用這個安全和無障礙的設備做一個改善 我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人 他的環境會變得更好他會更安全 我相信對這個古厝 他沒有那麼多土耕的現在沒有那麼多土耕的總空間 能夠建得更好的環境 讓大家更容易住所以 市長 因為住在他們老舊的公寓 大部分都是因為\n有經濟能力 要保住外星族所以說在這種 它的結構已經超過三十年了尤其過去都是 我們現在都十六五嘛 以前都是剩下的嘛所以說它這個危險性 這都是我們國土組織方面要去做協助甚至說補助 還有尤其很多老人家 大致四老五老的 他們又沒有電腦\n這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果大型行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。\n有啦 感謝委員 開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦開始提醒政府 像是台北新北現在也有在補助這本來在這個老宅延遲計劃裡面 我們也有在努力希望大家這個公務 大家如果協調有共識\n這個相關的設置的標準,我們已經都慢慢放寬了,所以現在很多其實條件有,這個如果合得好,我相信可以補助他們來做這個電梯的這個設置,對這個大樓的使用比較方便\n好 這部份喔 我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地你不可能在裡面跑所以外面喔 這很多我們的法令要修改規定放寬 讓他們可以去設立這樣我們炒這個風風 大家來努力不然現在都卡在土地上 因為都有麒麟地嘛是啦 主要比較多有的是卡到圍莊啦這個大家要互相再來協調好 謝謝感謝委員\n謝謝吳清明委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.059 --> 00:09.801\n主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長劉部長有請國務委員你好部長部長你好因為過去才我方不充分大家這樣溝通來做事現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長大家都\n\n00:32.473 --> 00:45.924\n針對我們的租金補貼大家提出的意見我們過去因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本市關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在剛好\n\n00:59.949 --> 01:12.587\n剛才他的廚藝都很高嘛所以不是在年輕人他自動去負擔的你自然不提你如果再維修這就會做成在年輕人做成在沒處好大的人\n\n01:13.086 --> 01:41.667\n他們的衝擊是非常大所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過才造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說,不管台北市、新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家接下去,大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施\n\n01:42.707 --> 01:48.190\n絕對不能說因為這樣就來有補貼這個部分來維修這樣對我們這個屬於說比較艱苦的人來作出的他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分我請保重應該保重\n\n02:03.823 --> 02:16.990\n就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議,看要怎麼共同改觀,好不好?報告委員,我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程,那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是我也要向委員報告,因為每年一開始,要用新的財政收支為分範\n\n02:25.655 --> 02:42.662\n新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是三月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列一百一十五年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文\n\n02:45.883 --> 02:54.151\n讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備\n\n03:04.700 --> 03:17.184\n因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候我們很希望說可能\n\n03:20.345 --> 03:38.469\n大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講平均來講縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮\n\n03:46.051 --> 04:04.325\n沒有這件事情只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的譬如說以新北市來講\n\n04:05.166 --> 04:25.295\n新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主\n\n04:28.796 --> 04:34.860\n來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好一律柏定這個部分我本省是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去合作我是本省的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少\n\n04:57.452 --> 05:14.758\n我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢好柏中你先回來我問柏中來\n\n05:18.704 --> 05:46.688\n委員好好師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這次的土生在本市的村區\n\n05:47.421 --> 06:00.690\n土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確\n\n06:09.054 --> 06:18.104\n讓我們很多老舊房子他們可以來做補強不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是感謝委員這是耐震補強的部分雖然\n\n06:23.987 --> 06:34.393\n前幾天這個申請量不太大但是我想這是一個對我們這個勞工戶有很大的幫助的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做得更安全這部分我們的經費都有懸殊了第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是其實是今年這個\n\n06:43.676 --> 06:50.701\n在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊溝是比較沒問題但是你是我們這麼久的廚房四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來\n\n06:59.057 --> 07:05.345\n提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換\n\n07:20.097 --> 07:43.107\n用這個安全和無障礙的設備做一個改善我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人他的環境會變得更好他會更安全我相信對這個古厝他沒有那麼多土耕的現在沒有那麼多土耕的總空間能夠建得更好的環境讓大家更容易住所以市長因為住在他們老舊的公寓大部分都是因為\n\n07:43.840 --> 07:57.827\n有經濟能力要保住外星族所以說在這種它的結構已經超過三十年了尤其過去都是我們現在都十六五嘛以前都是剩下的嘛所以說它這個危險性這都是我們國土組織方面要去做協助甚至說補助還有尤其很多老人家大致四老五老的他們又沒有電腦\n\n08:12.474 --> 08:22.701\n這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果大型行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。\n\n08:31.260 --> 08:35.664\n有啦感謝委員開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦開始提醒政府像是台北新北現在也有在補助這本來在這個老宅延遲計劃裡面我們也有在努力希望大家這個公務大家如果協調有共識\n\n08:49.498 --> 08:55.966\n這個相關的設置的標準,我們已經都慢慢放寬了,所以現在很多其實條件有,這個如果合得好,我相信可以補助他們來做這個電梯的這個設置,對這個大樓的使用比較方便\n\n09:05.014 --> 09:21.224\n好這部份喔我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地你不可能在裡面跑所以外面喔這很多我們的法令要修改規定放寬讓他們可以去設立這樣我們炒這個風風大家來努力不然現在都卡在土地上因為都有麒麟地嘛是啦主要比較多有的是卡到圍莊啦這個大家要互相再來協調好謝謝感謝委員\n\n09:36.653 --> 09:36.935\n謝謝吳清明委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.059,"end":9.801,"text":"主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長 劉部長有請國務委員你好 部長 部長你好因為過去才我方不充分大家這樣溝通來做事 現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長 大家都"},{"start":32.473,"end":45.924,"text":"針對我們的租金補貼 大家提出的意見我們過去 因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛 前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本市關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來 這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在剛好"},{"start":59.949,"end":72.587,"text":"剛才他的廚藝都很高嘛所以不是在年輕人他自動去負擔的你自然不提你如果再維修這就會做成在年輕人做成在沒處好大的人"},{"start":73.086,"end":101.667,"text":"他們的衝擊是非常大所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過才造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說,不管台北市、新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家接下去,大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施"},{"start":102.707,"end":108.19,"text":"絕對不能說因為這樣就來有補貼這個部分來維修這樣對我們這個屬於說比較艱苦的人來作出的他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分我請保重應該保重"},{"start":123.823,"end":136.99,"text":"就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議,看要怎麼共同改觀,好不好?報告委員,我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程,那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是我也要向委員報告,因為每年一開始,要用新的財政收支為分範"},{"start":145.655,"end":162.662,"text":"新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是三月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列一百一十五年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文"},{"start":165.883,"end":174.151,"text":"讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備"},{"start":184.7,"end":197.184,"text":"因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候我們很希望說可能"},{"start":200.345,"end":218.469,"text":"大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講平均來講縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮"},{"start":226.051,"end":244.325,"text":"沒有這件事情 只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢 我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的 譬如說以新北市來講"},{"start":245.166,"end":265.295,"text":"新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主"},{"start":268.796,"end":274.86,"text":"來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好 一律 柏定這個部分 我本省是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去合作我是本省的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少"},{"start":297.452,"end":314.758,"text":"我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對 因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢 好 柏中你先回來 我問柏中來"},{"start":318.704,"end":346.688,"text":"委員好好 師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡 總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這次的土生在本市的村區"},{"start":347.421,"end":360.69,"text":"土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確"},{"start":369.054,"end":378.104,"text":"讓我們很多老舊房子他們可以來做補強不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是 感謝委員這是耐震補強的部分雖然"},{"start":383.987,"end":394.393,"text":"前幾天這個申請量不太大但是我想這是一個對我們這個勞工戶有很大的幫助的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做得更安全這部分我們的經費都有懸殊了第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是其實是今年這個"},{"start":403.676,"end":410.701,"text":"在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊溝是比較沒問題但是你是我們這麼久的廚房四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來"},{"start":419.057,"end":425.345,"text":"提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換"},{"start":440.097,"end":463.107,"text":"用這個安全和無障礙的設備做一個改善 我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人 他的環境會變得更好他會更安全 我相信對這個古厝 他沒有那麼多土耕的現在沒有那麼多土耕的總空間 能夠建得更好的環境 讓大家更容易住所以 市長 因為住在他們老舊的公寓 大部分都是因為"},{"start":463.84,"end":477.827,"text":"有經濟能力 要保住外星族所以說在這種 它的結構已經超過三十年了尤其過去都是 我們現在都十六五嘛 以前都是剩下的嘛所以說它這個危險性 這都是我們國土組織方面要去做協助甚至說補助 還有尤其很多老人家 大致四老五老的 他們又沒有電腦"},{"start":492.474,"end":502.701,"text":"這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果大型行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。"},{"start":511.26,"end":515.664,"text":"有啦 感謝委員 開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦開始提醒政府 像是台北新北現在也有在補助這本來在這個老宅延遲計劃裡面 我們也有在努力希望大家這個公務 大家如果協調有共識"},{"start":529.498,"end":535.966,"text":"這個相關的設置的標準,我們已經都慢慢放寬了,所以現在很多其實條件有,這個如果合得好,我相信可以補助他們來做這個電梯的這個設置,對這個大樓的使用比較方便"},{"start":545.014,"end":561.224,"text":"好 這部份喔 我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地你不可能在裡面跑所以外面喔 這很多我們的法令要修改規定放寬 讓他們可以去設立這樣我們炒這個風風 大家來努力不然現在都卡在土地上 因為都有麒麟地嘛是啦 主要比較多有的是卡到圍莊啦這個大家要互相再來協調好 謝謝感謝委員"},{"start":576.653,"end":576.935,"text":"謝謝吳清明委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":519,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（10時59分）主席及與會同仁好，請內政部部長。"],["主席：請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：吳委員你好。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長你好。因為過去在修財劃法的時候，大家沒有充分溝通，造成現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及縣長，大家針對你們的租金補貼都有提出意見，過去因為你們的租金補貼，全部都是由中央全額補助。"],["劉部長世芳：過去3、4年以來。"],["吳委員琪銘：本席現在關心的是新北市，新北市有30萬人口申請租金補貼，但是未來租金補貼讓很多買不起房子的人……因為都會區的房價都很高，所以不是這些年輕人有辦法負擔的，租金補貼如果再萎縮，就會造成對一些年輕人、對這些沒有房子住的人的衝擊非常大。","因為過去的財劃法，大家沒有充分溝通就貿然通過，才造成後面衍生的問題。所以我也拜託部長，不管臺北市、新北市，以及我看全國各縣市有意見，是不是大家坐下來研究，未來租金補貼一定要再實施，絕對不能因為這樣，補貼就萎縮，對這些屬於比較艱苦的人、租房子的人造成壓力，對整個社會都不是很好。這個部分請部長邀各縣市大家召集一個會議，看要怎麼共同解決，好嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想你對所有的程序都非常了解，到年底之前租金補貼的政策並沒有改變。但是我也要跟委員報告，因為明年開始要用新的財政收支劃分法，新的財政收支劃分法明年上路，我是說預算，它其實是3月的時候就公告了。要開始編列115年預算的時候，6都裡面的5都，就是除了臺南市以外，都來電請內政部國土署可以給他們公文，讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府租金補貼的時候，看要不要編到預算裡面，所以國土署發的公文是通盤性的，請縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備，因為新的財政收支劃分法要上路。","我們的理由就是，新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入有增加，那中央政府自然就減少；既然中央政府減少，我們很希望大家都有共識回到原來111年之前，當時我們在做租金補貼，中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來編列，也就是平均來講，縣市地方政府可能要負擔25%的租金補貼。我們並沒有要求資格要限縮，沒有這件事情，只是給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔，大概是這樣子。","至於財力分級的部分，我們很希望行政院主計總處重新考量，會不會按照以前舊的？譬如以新北市來講，新北市的財政考量是要負擔30%，總共30%，因為在新北市申請租金補貼的戶數非常高，這樣會不會不公平？這個就是每個縣市政府要跟行政院主計總處坐下來談，那我們會以行政院主計總處的規定跟說法為主，要求各縣市地方政府配合，共同負擔租金補貼總共的預算。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，本席要求在租金補貼不要萎縮，至於在他們……"],["劉部長世芳：不會，我們就資格沒有限縮。"],["吳委員琪銘：縣市政府統籌分配要提撥多少，這就是你們要去跟他們協調的。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：本席的要求是，租金補貼絕對不能少。"],["劉部長世芳：目前為止，我們就申請的資格並沒有限縮。"],["吳委員琪銘：對，因為我看新北市就有30萬人口來申請，非常多，所以就這點本席要求一定要再比照。部長請回，再來我問署長。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：署長，全國超過30年以上的老舊房子超過500萬戶，在新北市所占的比例非常高，尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公寓。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：你看這回本席選區土城地震，有多少列入危樓？大部分、應該差不多有一半都是公寓，未來老舊房子要補強，我要求經費可以延續性地再增加，讓很多老舊房子可以補強，不然臺灣位於地震帶上，隨時會有發生地震的問題。"],["吳署長欣修：是，感謝委員。確實耐震補強的部分，雖然前幾年申請量不太大，但我想這是對老公寓有很大幫助的一個計畫，尤其要讓它的結構可以做得更安全，這部分我們的經費都有延續。","第二，確實在今年的特別預算裡面，希望提出老宅延壽的部分，就是如果結構評估比較沒問題，但真的是很舊的房子，例如4樓到6樓舊公寓，這部分我們會提出一個補助的方式，希望在公共區域安全，比如樓梯、外牆、走廊如果想要改善，讓安全性提高；還包括部分的室內，比如舊的電線要換、舊的設備要換，希望用安全跟無障礙的設備來改善，我想對於住在那裡的不管是老人還是年輕人，環境會變得比較好、會比較安全。我相信老房子在暫時沒辦法都更的狀況下，可以得到比較好的環境，會讓大家比較願意住。"],["吳委員琪銘：住在老舊公寓大部分都是因為經濟能力……"],["吳署長欣修：對，還搬不走的。"],["吳委員琪銘：他還沒辦法換新房子，這種的結構體都已經超過三十年了。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：尤其現在都是水泥。"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["吳委員琪銘：以前都是磚造的。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以具有危險性，都是國土署要協助的。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：甚至補助，尤其很多老人住在4樓、5樓，又沒有電梯。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：像這種的應該要納入，思考電梯要怎麼增設，因為後面都有防火巷嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：有畸零地，這是不是看要怎麼獎勵，讓行動不方便的老人家能夠比較便利。"],["吳署長欣修：有啦！感謝委員，確實提這個都是很好的建議。而確實地方政府，像臺北、新北現在也有在補助。這個部分，我們在老宅延壽計畫裡面也有列入，希望舊公寓如果大家協調有共識就可以來設，相關的設置標準也已經都慢慢放寬了。現在很多其實條件是有，只要協調好，我相信就可以來補助他們設置電梯，對於公寓的使用會比較方便。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，這個部分，現在電梯設立大部分都要在外面的畸零地……"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為裡面不可能打通。"],["吳署長欣修：現在條件都有放寬。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以外面的，很多法令規定要稍微放寬，讓他們可以去設立。"],["吳署長欣修：是，好。"],["吳委員琪銘：我們朝這個方向，大家來努力。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["吳委員琪銘：不然現在他們都卡在土地取得上，通常都有畸零地。"],["吳署長欣修：是，主要比較多有的是卡到違章。"],["吳委員琪銘：對。"],["吳署長欣修：這就要大家再互相協調。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘委員。","下一位請丁學忠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}}